Susan's Place Transgender Resources

be specific and use examples.

Adam and Eve were stereotype man and woman.  Cain and Abel were men.

This is why 99.9% of world population is clearly either a man/male or woman/female.

Quote from: lilacwoman on December 23, 2011, 02:05:41 AM
Adam and Eve were stereotype man and woman.  Cain and Abel were men.

This is why 99.9% of world population is clearly either a man/male or woman/female.

Kia Ora LW,

::) Wasn't Eve meant to have been 'genetically engineered' from Adam's ribs ?

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: FullMoon19 on December 23, 2011, 01:32:21 AM
be specific and use examples.

Kia Ora FullMoon,

"What is a real man and what is a real woman?"

::) What do you mean by real ?

Metta Zenda :)

I am a real man. My internet penis is bigger than anyone's. When I play chicken I never falter. I have a large watch instead of a small one. I can open jars. I do not ask for directions. I'm someone's dad, I like sports and beer, and sex is more important to me than commitment. I'm foolhardy and stubborn, and I am a wall between my loved ones and danger.

Lol I think I intended to give a flippant and facetious answer, but that stuff is mostly all true and straight up.

define "real" please !

real is whatever you think it means.

Mahsa is niether a real man or woman. LOL

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 23, 2011, 08:56:17 PM
Mahsa is niether a real man or woman. LOL

Mahsa is her own creature, not beholden to our definitions.

Beautiful woman with a cock and a mixed mindset? Or beautiful man with makeup and an exotically odd presentation? Lol idk, but Mahsa's gender parameters definitely piss people off. :laugh:

Disco shark trolls by merely being present. ;D

President John F. Kennedy was a real man. My Father -a man who dedicated his entire life to the wellbeing of poor women- and survived WWII was a real man.

Prime Minister  Golda Meyer was a real woman. Dr. Rosalind Franklin -who discover the structure of DNA- was a real woman. My Mother who survived WWII was a real woman.

Jen61

IMO: We all carry a hole in our souls, how we fill that hole in our souls, and for what purpose, differentiates the real from the mundane, the transient from the transcendental.

I hope someday somebody will say of me: "he/she was real"

Jen61

Quote from: Felix on December 23, 2011, 09:06:51 PM
Mahsa is her own creature, not beholden to our definitions.

Beautiful woman with a cock and a mixed mindset? Or beautiful man with makeup and an exotically odd presentation? Lol idk, but Mahsa's gender parameters definitely piss people off. :laugh:

Disco shark trolls by merely being present. ;D

Not really exotically odd in appearance, in mindset...definitely. I am not Lady Gaga....yet.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 23, 2011, 09:35:46 PM
Not really exotically odd in appearance, in mindset...definitely. I am not Lady Gaga....yet.

I'll jump into some hair-fine semantic bs and say that you don't appear odd at all, but you present oddly for someone with a penis.

And I don't know what Lady Gaga looks like. I youtubed her music recently because my daughter came home from school singing it, but I wouldn't be able to pick her out of a crowd.

i don't know, i think people should just let others be who they are without having to fill out "qualification forms."

Quote from: FullMoon19 on December 23, 2011, 11:12:11 PM
i don't know, i think people should just let others be who they are without having to fill out "qualification forms."

There's a new tenant moving into my building tonight who refuses pronouns altogether. This person is really cool, imo, and likely faces the qualification forms thing more than I do.

But I still like to play with gender markers when it's safe to do so. ;D

Kia Ora FM,

"What is a real man and what is a real woman?" Answer = " Whatever one thinks 'real' means! "

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 23, 2011, 08:56:17 PM
Mahsa is niether a real man or woman. LOL

Mahsa is a real shark, bordering on the surreal.

To me being a real man means being strong but tender. A man puts his family's need before his own and take care of and protects them no matter what. A real man is courageous but do not take stupid risks. A real man never cheats and is not abusive to his wife/girlfriend. A real man takes care of his kids and plays with them and he's not afraid to change diapers! He respects his mother and women in general.

Here's a better question: what is a fake man and what is a fake woman? The idea that there's such a thing as "real men" and "real women" is odd to me. Either you're a man, a woman, or something else, and whatever you are, you're automatically a "real" man/woman/androgyne/*insert-label-of-choice-here*, simply because that's how you identify as.

::) Or maybe I just tend to take things too literally.

Quote from: Z7Z on December 24, 2011, 10:34:42 AM
Here's a better question: what is a fake man and what is a fake woman? The idea that there's such a thing as "real men" and "real women" is odd to me. Either you're a man, a woman, or something else, and whatever you are, you're automatically a "real" man/woman/androgyne/*insert-label-of-choice-here*, simply because that's how you identify as.

::) Or maybe I just tend to take things too literally.

That is why I asked the OP to define "real" so we are all in the same "zone." Her response was whatever you think is real. So your definition is a good as any

Quote from: VeryGnawty on December 24, 2011, 01:21:17 AM
Mahsa is a real shark, bordering on the surreal.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Not really...Just a gay boy who went to far on something. Let this be a lesson to you kids not to use drugs. LOL

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 24, 2011, 03:07:27 PM
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Not really...Just a gay boy who went to far on something. Let this be a lesson to you kids not to use drugs. LOL

drugs'r bad, mmkay?

Kia Ora,

::) Synthetic Hormones are drugs ! So stay away from them too, they can also F**% with ones mind[and body]  ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Zenda on December 24, 2011, 05:12:43 PM
Kia Ora,

::) Synthetic Hormones are drugs ! So stay away from them too, they can also F**% with ones mind[and body]  ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)

I get my next shot in 4 days. ;D

Quote from: Felix on December 24, 2011, 05:25:34 PM
I get my next shot in 4 days. ;D

Kia Ora Felix,

::) Don't say I didn't warn you !  ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)

and returning to the scheduled thread, what is a real man or woman

Quote from: Jen61 on December 24, 2011, 05:46:53 PM
and returning to the scheduled thread, what is a real man or woman

You're a real woman Jen61...

Quote from: Z7Z on December 24, 2011, 10:34:42 AM
what is a fake man and what is a fake woman?

I am actually both of those things.  Go figure.

As someone else said, in order for a man/woman to be "real" someone needs to be fake. A lot of people make these grand sweeping proclamations that a "real man" takes care of his "family" or people he cares about, is "strong" (whatever that means), stands by his values, doesn't hurt the helpless but "defends" them, and blah blah blah chivalry. For example, when a man is revealed to have beaten his wife/girlfriend/child, raped someone, murdered someone and so on certain people scream out that he was not a "real man" that he is "ball-less" and so on and so forth.

Yet none of these people realise or even begin to question how this culture of calling people "real men" or "real women" creates the insecure masculine/male identity that drives those who commit these crimes. That the same outright, in your face misogyny present in a physical or sexual assault committed by a man against a woman, is a reflection of the underlying misogyny still present in our societies. The very creation of the standard "real man," whether he is "macho" or "chivalrous" creates a standard for men to live up to, and failing to do so condemns them to "not being a real man."

But if he isn't a "real man" no matter what he's done, then what is he? A fake man? When was the last time you saw a woman charged with physically or sexually assaulting someone who was condemned by the public to being "not a real woman." If she's abused or harmed her children, then people will cry out that she is a disgrace of a mother with no maternal instinct (the horrors!), which is, in our society, the essence of "real woman": mother, wife, caregiver. There is a reason why the phrase "real man" is more prevalent in our society than "real woman." Because, for most people, not being a "real man" means you're a "coward," and in colloquial speech the man is then called a "->-bleeped-<-," a "pussy," a "pansy" etc. All words which, in most societies, suggest that if he is not a "real man," then he is feminine or womanly and therefore cowardly. People only tend to refer to "real women" as far as a woman's sex appeal, her ability to take care of her children (thus leaving female gender roles linked to childbearing and motherhood) and her family. A woman who is brave is a woman who is brave, she is not a "real woman" because there is no standard of bravery for women in our society. There is no standard of conviction for women, the way there is with men.

In general, this whole "real man," "real woman" stuff is sexist, heterosexist, cissexist, ableist and in certain respects even racist (as far as the way Western society even today continues to "gender" certain "races.") as far as the creation of standards of "masculinity" and "femininity."

As such, I would say there is no such thing as a "real man" or "real woman." There are, as someone else also mentioned, only men, women and the variety of those who identify as neither/both/etc. "Man-ness" is not directly related to your actions, your values, how you treat others. "Woman-ness" is no way related to your actions, your values, how you treat children.

The other thing is, why do we feel the need to gender positive or negative behaviour? If a person does something atrocious, why do they have to be "less of a man"? Why can't they simply be a "real man" who has done something atrocious? Why is it socially acceptable to threaten his identity as a man? Well, I know why...but the point is that such standards are something ridiculous and reprehensible in and of themselves.

Regarding the real vs. fake men and women, the receptionist at my work is a cardboard cutout whose former career was advertising Starbucks Via.  I would consider her a fake woman.  The other women in the office, I would consider real.

Quote from: Felix on December 23, 2011, 06:21:10 PMI have a large watch instead of a small one.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F6uU8G.jpg&hash=4967f7ce46d65e6241b27de34e988bc83786e08e)
That you, Felix?  :P

Quote from: rosetyler on January 04, 2012, 11:21:46 PM
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F6uU8G.jpg&hash=4967f7ce46d65e6241b27de34e988bc83786e08e)
That you, Felix?  :P

It's 11:13

This is my manly watch. I got the biggest one Fred Meyer had. It proves I'm a real man. ;D
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hertel-uhren.de%2Fshop%2F22200736-614-large%2Fcasio-collection-f-108wh-1aes-jugenduhr-schwarz.jpg&hash=d4ea9539b49ffc59de026708f13a62954490c77f)

Quote from: Felix on January 05, 2012, 09:55:59 PM
This is my manly watch. I got the biggest one Fred Meyer had. It proves I'm a real man.

You should get that clock necklace from the other photo.  I'm am SO going to find a way to bring those into style.