Susan's Place Transgender Resources

What places would you feel ok going around if you don't exactly look like a (non-trans) regular heterosexual person?

I know like in Los Angeles, especially around Hollywood and West Hollywood, and in the city of Long Beach (near the coast).  San Francisco as well.  Other places?

Sorry, I got the heck out of the US while I still could.  Come to South Australia.  Quite an eclectic collection of free spirits here.

We haven't shut the gate. Anyone who wants to leave the US is free to do so. Sorry, Katelyn, you're two for two on people not answering your question. Hugs, Devlyn

it really depends. Some are worse than others and some have varying degrees of tolerance. If fellow transgender people are intolerant of other transgenders then no matter where you will go will not be a paradise.

My rule of thumb is you make the best of any situation. I live in the middle of Amish country and Im doing fine.

most of the trans-related horror stories seem to come from the US
I think that's a function of importance and ownership more than levels of incidents.  The US invented the media, owns the media, and controls the media and it centers on the US because we basically don't care about anywhere else, and don't think of it as important at any rate.  But I think that the actual reason is that in most places that kind of stuff doesn't get media coverage because it's not rare there, and here it is.  Man bites dog is news, dog bites man is not.  So it stands out here as being outside the mainstream.


Kat's general rules of thumb

- The coastal areas are more liberal than the inland areas.
- Big cities more than small towns.  Largely because people have better things to do.
- Capitol cities (and port cities) tend to be pretty open (Des Moines in Iowa for example), I think its a function of graft and general corruption.
- University towns are pretty liberal, in part because of the higher ed deal and also in part due to the highly transient nature of the population.  But not all colleges and universities are 'liberal'.  But some of the main ones that seem more open are: Ann Arbor in Michigan, Athens in Georgia, Austin in Texas (might be the only place like that in Texas), Madison Wisconsin, and Burlington Vermont.

- Count - bars vs churches.  Best gauge I know of.  Far more bars than churches in SF, far, far more churches than bars in Topeka and Omaha.

Actually in the old days a quick trip though the Yellow Pages would tell you all kinds of things.  Lots of listings for lingerie shops, bakeries is good, lots of therapists, not so good.  Lots of pawn shops?  Not so good.  Actual listings in the Yellow Pages for Sexual Fetish shops - most excellent.

Tekla honey, you rock.
Your replies are always full of wisdom and sense of humor.
It looks fun but there is a core of truth in it.
I will take a good look in the yellow pages from now on, before I will visit a city in the US.
BTW, if the US invented the media, I can't see any progress since invention when I look at Fox. lol

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on January 15, 2012, 06:44:02 PM
Sorry, I got the heck out of the US while I still could.  Come to South Australia.  Quite an eclectic collection of free spirits here.

How easy (or hard) is it to get residence there?   Moving to another country is something I've been thinking about for awhile.

Grumble grumble.   I hate when people try to compare Europe or Australia to the United States.   There are about 22 million people in Australia.  Which is approximately the same size as the continental US.  There are 307 million people living in the US.  There about 18 Million people living in New York State and 8 million people living in New Jersey.  So in these two states we've got more people living in TWO STATES than you do in your entire country.

Of course we're going to have more crime,  more problems and more jerks and more uneducated people.   We also have a lot more immigrants.  I live in NYC and here in Brooklyn even the native NYers are much much much more open minded to transgender issues, especially transplants.  But the immigrants are horribly biased.  So the immigrants from Egypt or my husband country of Greece  oh heck no.  Total vicious monsters.  I wouldn't even broach the topic.

But hey the Americans are blamed for it?  That's not really fair.    That's not to say that we don't have our share of ugly prejudiced bigots.  They usually are bible belt folks.  You met one of them on the other site Kelly!!

But in general what was posted by tekla is spot on.  Larger cities with colleges.   Problem is if you have a large number of poor immigrants from other places, they aren't going to fall into the mold that the college.city  concept tends to make.  So you still have problems.

But it isn't only Americans that are the problem.  We also have the same issue in the US when it comes to racism.   I worked in real estate for a while and I can tell you that flat out  Asians and Greeks and Arabs will NEVER rent to a black tenant.  No matter what.   A white guy might.  A white guy might rent to a black military guy.  But those above no way.  And they have no qualms about it at all.   But it gets blamed on white Americans.  It's a pet peeve of mine.

Quote from: kelly_aus on January 15, 2012, 07:20:15 PM
I've always been an Australian.. But I'll second Kreuzfidel's comment.. And say that most of the trans-related horror stories seem to come from the US..

There are also 22.3 million people in Australia. There are 312 million people in the U.S.

Here are some sources of transgender related attacks in Australia:

http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2008/03/21/transgender-hate-and-violence-in-australia/ (http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2008/03/21/transgender-hate-and-violence-in-australia/)
http://hoydenabouttown.com/20101120.9012/transgender-day-of-remembrance-living-with-the-threat/ (http://hoydenabouttown.com/20101120.9012/transgender-day-of-remembrance-living-with-the-threat/)

Also, from the Australian Government:
Transgender victims appeared to be at risk from a very young age. Almost one-quarter had been sexually assaulted before the age of 11 (22%). One in six had been sexually assaulted in the 11–13 age range. A further 42 per cent had been sexually assaulted between the ages of 14 and 25 (CDHSH 1994,p. 38).
http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/4/3/6/%7B43630977-E669-46BD-ADCC-6B0766447C31%7DRPP36.pdf (http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/4/3/6/%7B43630977-E669-46BD-ADCC-6B0766447C31%7DRPP36.pdf)

Police brutality among transgender women in Australia:
http://www.gendercentre.org.au/39article2.htm (http://www.gendercentre.org.au/39article2.htm)

Another Australian report shows that 56% of transgender people experienced homophobic abuse, harassment and or violence (Australian's LGBT Health)

I am not trying to show that Australia is a horrible place to live but I am trying to convey that based on the demographic ratios of general population and violence, it would be inaccurate to say that most of all the transgender violence comes from the US.

Based on ratios, if Australia had 300+ million people, I am sure the violence ratios would be identical.

My point is, there is no "Emerald City of Oz." You have to look around and find areas that are more tolerant than others. I would be over reaching if I said an entire country is completely compassionate or tolerant.

Quote from: mixie on January 15, 2012, 09:06:25 PM
Grumble grumble.   I hate when people try to compare Europe or Australia to the United States.   There are about 22 million people in Australia.  Which is approximately the same size as the continental US.  There are 307 million people living in the US.  There about 18 Million people living in New York State and 8 million people living in New Jersey.  So in these two states we've got more people living in TWO STATES than you do in your entire country.

Of course we're going to have more crime,  more problems and more jerks and more uneducated people.   We also have a lot more immigrants.  I live in NYC and here in Brooklyn even the native NYers are much much much more open minded to transgender issues, especially transplants.  But the immigrants are horribly biased.  So the immigrants from Egypt or my husband country of Greece  oh heck no.  Total vicious monsters.  I wouldn't even broach the topic.

But hey the Americans are blamed for it?  That's not really fair.    That's not to say that we don't have our share of ugly prejudiced bigots.  They usually are bible belt folks.  You met one of them on the other site Kelly!!

But in general what was posted by tekla is spot on.  Larger cities with colleges.   Problem is if you have a large number of poor immigrants from other places, they aren't going to fall into the mold that the college.city  concept tends to make.  So you still have problems.

But it isn't only Americans that are the problem.  We also have the same issue in the US when it comes to racism.   I worked in real estate for a while and I can tell you that flat out  Asians and Greeks and Arabs will NEVER rent to a black tenant.  No matter what.   A white guy might.  A white guy might rent to a black military guy.  But those above no way.  And they have no qualms about it at all.   But it gets blamed on white Americans.  It's a pet peeve of mine.

I should have read your comment first before posting :) but it's nice to see someone else on the same wave length.

LOL you can tell me and Annah both went to seminary.  We just leapt straight for the statistics, information and data.  Then played the exact same argument!  LOL

I think that we get upset here in the states because of the way the big mouths paint us in the media.  Like seriously I know about 10 very religious people. When I went to seminary we had two transgenders and one Gender Queer.   Very open minded.  Even the religious people I do know, the orthodox Jews are respectful of homosexuality.  There's actually a statistic that the more Catholics that live in a city the better the situation seems to be for gay folks.  But the way the media paints it, it's as if a good portion of the US is made up of the West Boro Baptist church types.

Then we also have this grief in the US of being told we're narrow minded if we don't travel.  And we get loads of Europeans totting off how they travel all over Europe.  Well Europe is less than traveling all over the US and it's cheaper to fly domestically and you can go to Hawaii, Grand Canyon,  Alaska, Yosemite   the Florida Keys, The Mountains of Vermont,  Oregon and Seattle etc etc not to mention major cities.

But since it's all one country we are narrow minded.   


We get grief a lot from people who don't realize how diverse the US is, and how different the states are.   If I tried to move to Savannah Georgia I'd probably be laughed out of the city as a Yankee not to mention a Brooklynite.   And it's all flipped around all over the US.  States can be very different from one another. So people get all prickly because we hate being lumped together.

Especially us snobs who think we're better than everyone else.  LOL :)

Quote from: mixie on January 15, 2012, 10:18:30 PM
LOL you can tell me and Annah both went to seminary.  We just leapt straight for the statistics, information and data.  Then played the exact same argument!  LOL

Hell, when your degrees focus on theology and philosophy, sources are vital are you'll just end up sounding like Jim Jones or Pat Robertson :P

Quote from: kelly_aus on January 15, 2012, 10:34:50 PM
For example, when I first started to venture in to finding things out, I was told be a large number of US-based trans women that I would lose all my friends and family, as it had happened to them.. Didn't happen to me..

It didn't happen to me either and I live in the U.S. It didn't happen to my childhood best friend who was transgender too (long story).

There are always to sides to a coin. There are bad and there are good stories. It happens everywhere across this crazy planet.

I know this is moving off topic somewhat... sorry. But I really like Mixie's comments. I believe there are two factors in the way we US citizens are seen from the rest of the world. First: We really don't like each other. It's not generally true but there are enough of us who believe that everyone and anyone different is evil in some way. These bull pies get on the news. Second: We have news media that exacerbates these situations.

I have to go through a few hoops to get news from around the world... or at least go out of my way to pick up something like BBC or that "hostile organization" AJ. I only put the initials ther. AJ actually is very respectable about reporting news without opinion.  BUT, even those organizations push US "news" that has a similar but toned down slant as broadcast here. We are our own worst enemeis... at least those outlets that push out the crap.

Back to the subject... Tekla has it pegged as usual. It's good advice.

Cindi

Quote from: Katelyn on January 15, 2012, 06:12:02 PM
What places would you feel ok going around if you don't exactly look like a (non-trans) regular heterosexual person?

I know like in Los Angeles, especially around Hollywood and West Hollywood, and in the city of Long Beach (near the coast).  San Francisco as well.  Other places?

Kia Ora Katelyn,

::) Tekla's response makes a lot of sense[Tekla being a Yank and all] ;) ;D

::) However I would like to add this.... Most big cities[in Western countries*including the US*] have what one would call 'liberal' suburbs['gender nonconforming' -people friendly areas of the city], but I doubt that there are cities where 'all' the suburbs are equally as  'liberal'[Especially if one is obviously trans-'identifiable' even after they have transitioned ]...

::)  Finally, when and if you are able to blend-in as your target gender'[and if you decide to go stealth] the world's your oyster and you can move to any city you like-even 'hell' [those cities in the bible belt !] ;) ;D

::) Good luck on your quest....

Metta Zenda :)

at least those outlets that push out the crap

Or they are:
a) editing it out for political/economic reasons
b) censoring it
c) sanitizing it for the masses

That you don't hear about it - because the local media is not reporting it - does not mean it's not happening. 


We also have a lot more immigrants.

In numbers that the rest of the world can't even begin to imagine.  Just check out some of these stats.

- New York City has more Jews than Israel
- It also has more Puerto Ricans  than Puerto Rico
- Chicago has more Polish people than any other place except Warsaw.
- LA is the second largest Spanish speaking city after Mexico City.  More than any actual Spanish city.
- San Francisco has the largest Chinese New Year celebration outside of China.  It also has the largest collection of Asian Art outside of Asia.


There are about 22 million people in Australia
Congratulations, your entire nation is as big as our SECOND largest metro area.  So yeah, the problems increase with the number of people.

Not to beat a dead horse but Astoria Queens has the second largest group of Greeks in the world outside of Athens Greece.

And landwise Australia is almost the same size as the US just most of it is not habitable.

We've got a few Ozzies on tonight.  I do think Americans adore people from Australia.  But it gets tiring when people don't understand.  That's what you can sort of see a knee jerk reaction here.  To say that you understand that the US is as diverse as Australia is a teeny tiny bit upsetting.   It's just a little irk.  Not really a big deal but since so many people say these kinds of things it's a bit annoying.

But the diversity is not the same at all around the world.  Not at all.  I think the closest I would see is the way Ukranians loath being confused as Russians.   

like someone said  People in the US do not like being confused with others. People in Texas nearly want to succeed from the nation.   They do not like Yankee liberal NYer at all.

So it's not just that the country itself is filled like any other country around the world is,  with diversity.  It's that most other countries have no idea what kind of culture actually exists inside the US.  There's such a blanket to our culture.  But within the US there are the equivalent of 50 countries.  At least broken down into 6 very different regions.  You simply do not have the kind of diversity even LANDWISE in other parts of the world that you do in the United States.  The land itself creates different cultures.

We have deserts, frozen tundras,  great lakes,  plains,  volcanic islands,  ski slopes,  hot springs,  mountain ranges and lush tropical marshlands,  there is nearly every kind of area in the US except for a tropical rainforest.   And this is why it's so diverse .  The people are diverse already.  In fact one of the most similar things you will find in the US is all the different ethnic groups in all the different cities that are immigrants.  So Chinatown in San Francisco is the same as Chinatown in NYC and Chinatown in Washington DC.

But the religious beliefs, cultures etc of Americans are so very diverse.  People wind up moving to large cities that sort of match what they feel inside.


Gosh Kelly don't think all this is aimed at you.  This thread just touched a nerve with us it seems.   Hugs.

You did see where I said none of it was directed at you!   LOL  Seriously.  It's just one of those things.   Nothing at all to do with you.   People have had these thoughts forever.  Its not about what you said at all.   

Nothing you say or do is wrong.  I adore you! :)

Quote from: Katelyn on January 15, 2012, 08:15:53 PM
How easy (or hard) is it to get residence there?   Moving to another country is something I've been thinking about for awhile.

Depends on which visa you want.  Working visas seem relatively easy to obtain as long as you work in one of the specified eligible careers.  Also you need to not have a substantial criminal record.

I travelled to a lot of places in the US.
I have met friendly helpfull people and I have met ->-bleeped-<-s.
I'm living in Europe.
I have met friendly helpfull people and ->-bleeped-<-s.
What I want to say is, there are ->-bleeped-<-s everywhere and there are nice people everywhere.
The trick is to find the good people and leave the ->-bleeped-<-s alone.
There is no place with only good or bad people not in the US, not in Europe and probally not in Australia.

I was going to chime in and say we have a fraction of the US population too.  There are plenty of trans and homophobic places here if you really want to look, but some surprises too.  Melbourne is a city of 3.5 million and there are places where the "normal" person stands out like a sore thumb, but also suburbs where you wouldn't want to wear a non-passing outfit in the street.

North West Tasmania had the reputation of being the second most homophobic are in the country after outback Queensland,  according to a good friend who moved from one to the other.  That has changed a lot. She was Australia's first woman shearer and is non-op trans.  She still goes by her female name, and has been re-elected the President of the Mole Creek Progress Association for years.

So back on topic, you could do a search of the newspapers for trans related crime stories over the last couple of years.  I did a similar thing when looking for somewhere to live here.  East of the river it was all crime, west it was much better.

Karen.

you could do a search of the newspapers for trans related crime stories over the last couple of years.  I did a similar thing when looking for somewhere to live here.  East of the river it was all crime, west it was much better.

That assumes that they are printing all the stories, and we know they are not.  I'd trust something that actually tracks such crimes, such as The Uniform Crime Report that the FBI put out every year more.  But even then not completely.  There are no trans-related crimes before the 1990s because they did not have a category to count them.  And, as an ex-cop I'm sure you know that original crime reports are often fudged one way or the other, so if the original report doesn't report that, then the FBI report won't count it.

This post was full of very helpful information. Thanks so much.


BTW...does anyone know if Harrisburg, PA is a good place to be stealth? I currently live 15 minutes from San Francisco and love frequenting the Transgender night clubs around here, it helps alleviate the depression that comes with being deeply stealth. However, my fiance and I want to move to PA to hopefully build a future there, but i'm nervous because i have already established a great doctor here who prescribes my HRT regimen, and have my based transgender groups here.... I'm afraid the East Coast will not be able to provide the crucial trans resources the way that SF does. Any ideas? Obviously i can't talk to my significant other about my fears...

Quote from: tekla on January 15, 2012, 07:37:50 PM

- University towns are pretty liberal, in part because of the higher ed deal and also in part due to the highly transient nature of the population.  But not all colleges and universities are 'liberal'.  But some of the main ones that seem more open are: Ann Arbor in Michigan, Athens in Georgia, Austin in Texas (might be the only place like that in Texas), Madison Wisconsin, and Burlington Vermont.


Actually in the old days a quick trip though the Yellow Pages would tell you all kinds of things.  Lots of listings for lingerie shops, bakeries is good, lots of therapists, not so good.  Lots of pawn shops?  Not so good.  Actual listings in the Yellow Pages for Sexual Fetish shops - most excellent.

Austin's not that great, lived there, and the Yellow Pages...you've got a point there...

So, besides Amish Country, Coastal Areas, Big Cities, college towns and places with more bars than churches (sorry Australia doesn't count)...San Francisco...where else?

Quote from: KillBelle on January 16, 2012, 06:08:07 PM
This post was full of very helpful information. Thanks so much.


BTW...does anyone know if Harrisburg, PA is a good place to be stealth?

I live 15 minutes from Harrisburg, PA. I haven't run into any issues...and I live in a conservative county underneath Harrisburg; Lancaster Co.

I'm not into the club and gay scene but there are numerous gay bars and there are several LGBT clubs in Harrisburg. I know if Lancaster City (home of the Amish) has three gay/lesbian bars then Harrisburg has many more.

Atlanta is certainly a diamond in the rough. I live half an hour outside of the city, and there is such unbelievable contrast, I could swear I'm in a new country every time I go there. I think I even remember reading that it's the number one LGBT-friendly city in America.

Austin's not that great
Well compared to SF, perhaps not, compared to the rest of the state - well if it's not heaven, it's close enough to pretend.  I mean if I had to live in Texas (and I'd choose hell first), it would be Austin or nothing.  (but remember, for me it's not just the 'more liberal than the rest of the state, which is still less liberal than any real liberal place, but it also has a world class university, with an awesome library AND the LBJ Presidential Library, and I could find lots of work there too, so if I never went a mile or two outside of 6th Street I'd be OK.)

where else?
Happy people, busy people and wealthy people if not actually tolerant / nonjudgmental, tend to at least not inflict it on others.  Or they are too busy to care.  Wasn't Atlanta's slogan back in the 70s: Atlanta, to busy to hate?, as a way of trying to differentiate Atlanta from the rest of the South.  Or they understand the downside of acting like a moron.  Whatever, comes out the same in the wash. 

Quote from: tekla on January 16, 2012, 09:28:12 PM
Austin's not that great
Well compared to SF, perhaps not, compared to the rest of the state - well if it's not heaven, it's close enough to pretend.

You have small expectations of Heaven then... :laugh:

Quote from: Lyra Dash on January 16, 2012, 08:32:18 PM
Atlanta is certainly a diamond in the rough. I live half an hour outside of the city, and there is such unbelievable contrast, I could swear I'm in a new country every time I go there. I think I even remember reading that it's the number one LGBT-friendly city in America.

Well that's certainly interesting given that Atlanta's a big city and a much more affordable city than say California or the Northeast, plus it doesn't have the bitter cold as well, and it has a nice mass transit system.

You have small expectations of Heaven then...
Well I'm a rational, scientific agnostic - guess it shows.  Besides my idea of heaven is SF if heaven is urban, and Lake Tahoe if heaven is rural, but that's going to be beyond the means of most of the people on these boards in one way or another.

Quote from: tekla on January 16, 2012, 10:55:42 PM
You have small expectations of Heaven then...
Well I'm a rational, scientific agnostic - guess it shows.  Besides my idea of heaven is SF if heaven is urban, and Lake Tahoe if heaven is rural, but that's going to be beyond the means of most of the people on these boards in one way or another.

Probably beyond yours too... :laugh:

Quote from: Lacey Lynne on January 16, 2012, 10:53:26 PM
Great topic!  Great thread!

Ah, The Media:

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/silent_weapons_quiet_wars.htm (http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/silent_weapons_quiet_wars.htm)

Folks, don't laugh at Kreuzfidel.  He's right.  The day will come when you can't leave.   I't "going down" as we speak.

Martial Law Coming and Checkpoints are in play! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsoGlen9z3o&feature=related#)

Think it's not happening?  It is.   Just look around.   Tolerance?  Moot issue if this DOES go down.

No offense to you but I take zero concern with conspiracy theories and Silent Weapons Quiet wars conspiracy whose creator is serving time in a federal prison.

Other side of the story:
http://www.paranoiamagazine.com/silentweapons.html (http://www.paranoiamagazine.com/silentweapons.html)
http://www.skilluminati.com/research/entry/silent_weapons_myths_vs_reality/ (http://www.skilluminati.com/research/entry/silent_weapons_myths_vs_reality/)

Probably beyond yours too

Well it's always good to cultivate relationships with organized crime figures, that way when things go wrong there's always the Witness Protection Program.

Kia Ora,

::) "What are the most tolerant / nonjudgmental places in the U.S.?"

::) Little towns or big cities called 'Stealthville'  ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)

And remember that tolerant / nonjudgmental in American culture does not mean everyone will like you, or that anyone will, or that anyone gives a ->-bleeped-<- at all.  In the words of the classic cowboy song, Get A Long Little Doggies which perfectly sums up the notions of both toleration and individualism of the American West culture when it comes to stuff like that, well: "It's your misfortune and none of my own."

Quote from: tekla on January 17, 2012, 12:40:21 AM
Probably beyond yours too

Well it's always good to cultivate relationships with organized crime figures, that way when things go wrong there's always the Witness Protection Program.

When society erodes and pandemonium breaks out, organized crime might be the only government left.

Perhaps I shouldn't have watched all of the Mad Max films this weekend.

Quote from: tekla on January 17, 2012, 12:40:21 AM
Probably beyond yours too

Well it's always good to cultivate relationships with organized crime figures, that way when things go wrong there's always the Witness Protection Program.

Quote from: tekla on January 17, 2012, 02:19:22 AM
And remember that tolerant / nonjudgmental in American culture does not mean everyone will like you, or that anyone will, or that anyone gives a ->-bleeped-<- at all.  In the words of the classic cowboy song, Get A Long Little Doggies which perfectly sums up the notions of both toleration and individualism of the American West culture when it comes to stuff like that, well: "It's your misfortune and none of my own."

Haha...good ol' tekla...irrelevant as ever...how does "Get A Long Little Doggies" work in with cultivating Organized Crime figures, the Wittness Protection Program and said topic of discussion, What are the most tolerant / nonjudgmental places in the U.S.?

Iowa? How does that rate? And  careful with the "potty mouth please"... TOS 11 & 15.

Quote from: tekla on January 17, 2012, 02:19:22 AM
And remember that tolerant / nonjudgmental in American culture does not mean everyone will like you, or that anyone will, or that anyone gives a ->-bleeped-<- at all.  In the words of the classic cowboy song, Get A Long Little Doggies which perfectly sums up the notions of both toleration and individualism of the American West culture when it comes to stuff like that, well: "It's your misfortune and none of my own."

Dogie (doe' ghee) n - 1. a motherless calf

The cowboys would try to get the dogie to bond and be adopted by another cow (if not already a weanling).  Losing a dogie on the trail meant lost profits.  Sometimes referred to as a "proddy" in Britain and Australia.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fseattletimes.nwsource.com%2FABPub%2F2006%2F11%2F15%2F2003432852.gif&hash=17de9b57f689bff547d64cb5fe99554b875a37f3)

Lots of LBGT doesn't mean tolerant or non-judgemental.  In fact, sometimes familiarity breeds contempt, for a few reasons.

First, a lone T person is perhaps odd to some, but not threatening.  Look at areas that have the most anti-immigrant sentiment.  Hint: They aren't areas without any immigrants!  People start acting out towards immigrants often because they feel the immigrants are "taking over."  One immigrant wouldn't do that.  Similarly, one T person in a town probably won't cause too much of a fuss.  But if the right wing thinks T people are taking over, watch out.

Second, people who have never come into contact (knowingly) with a person who belongs to a minority will generally not think they understand the minority.  Some of the most horrible stereotypes and such I've seen towards minorities comes from people that know a handful of people in whatever community and, thus, *KNOW* what "those" people are like.  This is particularly bad with law enforcement - they come into contact with T people predominantly when crime is being committed.  They don't ever come into contact with T people who are not committing crime.  Thus, they start to think all T people are committing whatever type of crime - after all, they have a lot of experience (so they think) with T people.

Third, even in liberal areas, there are crazies who think they are being persecuted by the liberals and need to fix it.  Harvey Milk's killer comes to mind.  As do the disproportionate number of T people who are murdered in supposedly friendly/liberal communities. 

Forth, if an LGBT law is getting passed, watch out.  Hate crime went up in California when gay marriage was initially allowed.  It'll probably go up again, since "Kindergarteners are going to be told that they can have a sex change" (that's basically what Focus on the Family and others are saying in California right now - it's calculated to cause the most fear and most likelihood of getting the conservative values-vote to the polls).  If my children are at risk, why wouldn't I want to attack the person putting them at risk?  Likewise, DC saw too many hate crime murders recently, as did Houston.  DC is constantly in the news for allowing same sex marriage.  Houston has a lesbian mayor and just confirmed a wonderful female municipal judge that the bigots think is a man.  In places like that, the bigots feel like they are losing.  And crazy bigots who think that they are losing and that their children are at risk are just plain dangerous.  It's basically the same recipe world-wide for terrorism - crazy bigots who think they need to do something to stop the moral decline.  Even when it's not a terrorism, but a seemingly isolated nut that isn't trying to send a message, a lot of campaign garbage about how horrible gay and trans people are is likely to give support, in the bigot's mind, to violence.

So...I'm not sure if one place is more or less trans-friendly than another.  I'd stick with some place that you can feel comfortable in, that you understand, and that you feel as safe as you can feel in.

Quote from: annette on January 16, 2012, 04:48:12 AM
I travelled to a lot of places in the US.
I have met friendly helpfull people and I have met ->-bleeped-<-s.
I'm living in Europe.
I have met friendly helpfull people and ->-bleeped-<-s.
What I want to say is, there are ->-bleeped-<-s everywhere and there are nice people everywhere.
The trick is to find the good people and leave the ->-bleeped-<-s alone.
There is no place with only good or bad people not in the US, not in Europe and probally not in Australia.

We've definitely got as many ->-bleeped-<-s in Oz as any other country, that's for sure. I live near Sydney which is one of the Gay capitals of the world, but we've still got our intolerant types here like anywhere else. North Sydney and the inner suburbs of Sydney are the best places for tolerance, western suburbs of Sydney you will come across load of ->-bleeped-<-s with big mouths.  ::)

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on January 15, 2012, 06:44:02 PM
Sorry, I got the heck out of the US while I still could.  Come to South Australia.  Quite an eclectic collection of free spirits here.

From what I've heard, Australia is great with acceptance of LGBT, and it's not difficult to immigrate there.
I'd almost want to go there...except there's one thing that makes me not want to live there...those horrid, demon spiders that are the size of my face that actually exist in that country.
I'm actually not quite sure which one I'm more afraid of, homophobes in US politics or those giant demon spiders...but at least the homophobic politicians don't sneak into my house, nor do I ever cross paths with them while I'm walking around outside.

I think I'll stick with my plans to move to Canada, which is also better than the US, but where it's far too cold for giant demon spiders.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-B9VZhKi_KAY%2FTiDUJS4A6zI%2FAAAAAAAAAAA%2F7VmZZP5jwgw%2Fs400%2Fspideraussie.jpeg&hash=07c3860864466dfcf2e81569732b219fbb62706c)
NOPENOPENOPENOPE O.O

Quote from: Berger on January 17, 2012, 10:50:45 PM
From what I've heard, Australia is great with acceptance of LGBT, and it's not difficult to immigrate there.
I'd almost want to go there...except there's one thing that makes me not want to live there...those horrid, demon spiders that are the size of my face that actually exist in that country.
I'm actually not quite sure which one I'm more afraid of, homophobes in US politics or those giant demon spiders...but at least the homophobic politicians don't sneak into my house, nor do I ever cross paths with them while I'm walking around outside.

I think I'll stick with my plans to move to Canada, which is also better than the US, but where it's far too cold for giant demon spiders.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-B9VZhKi_KAY%2FTiDUJS4A6zI%2FAAAAAAAAAAA%2F7VmZZP5jwgw%2Fs400%2Fspideraussie.jpeg&hash=07c3860864466dfcf2e81569732b219fbb62706c)
NOPENOPENOPENOPE O.O

Kia Ora Berger,

::) Haven't you heard of Aotearoa [NZ]  ;)  It has the sunshine and beaches of Australia-but not as hot in the summer and the ice capped mountains of Canada-but not as cold in the winter...I call it Paradise[but then I'm bias] ;) ;D http://www.lonelyplanet.com/new-zealand (http://www.lonelyplanet.com/new-zealand)

Metta Zenda :)

^ I've heard from lots of people on the internet that living in Arizona, that you would have to deal with scorpions coming inside the house.  Well, I've lived for some time in Tucson, Arizona, and my mom has lived for more than 2 years here (in two different apartment complexes), and she and I have yet to see any scorpions...

BTW, Australia is where the famous androgynous model, Andrej Pejic, is from.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tumblr.com%2Fphoto%2F1280%2Ffyeahandrejpejic%2F12567454467%2F1%2Ftumblr_lubjo5sf7o1qil844&hash=56ed56640c3719e166f0f09da3b50687df0750c2)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F30.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lucy06Euy31qc9g3no1_500.jpg&hash=a0f85ef5fb42a80f297b6585a8b7f67a7e18cdd5)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F26.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_ltdhjepaml1qmw9dho1_500.jpg&hash=e6dbe43c9fbe641a7cbbbaaa2d338c6d8c0c28e8)

 In my experence, western Canada is a tolerant and nonjudgemental place. Of course, the exposure is limited outside of Vancouver... so that would be the reason. The plus? You pass easier.

I can't speak for Vancouver. I imagine it would be a good place, as it's a nice, big place that actually has trans resources.

Gotta say, it's a beautiful area. An Okanagan spring is to die for.

Quote from: Katelyn on January 18, 2012, 12:21:14 AM
BTW, Australia is where the famous androgynous model, Andrej Pejic, is from.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tumblr.com%2Fphoto%2F1280%2Ffyeahandrejpejic%2F12567454467%2F1%2Ftumblr_lubjo5sf7o1qil844&hash=56ed56640c3719e166f0f09da3b50687df0750c2)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F30.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lucy06Euy31qc9g3no1_500.jpg&hash=a0f85ef5fb42a80f297b6585a8b7f67a7e18cdd5)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffunkydowntown.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F02%2FAndrej-Pejic-4.jpg&hash=d28f1c63fa5f2316d156b09b301fdd8ddb701063)

Actually, he is from Europe, Bosnia, emigrated with his parents just after the war in Yugoslavia to Australia.
But, you're right for one thing, he is living in Australia now.

how does "Get A Long Little Doggies" work in?

OK, I'll go slower for ya.  Places that are the most tolerant, are also the most (in the words of the song) inclined to believe that "it's your misfortune and none of my own" - or in language a bit plainer: "your problems might be important to you, but they ain't nothin' to me, so don't even think about bothering me with them."  So sure, you can have an almost limitless amount of "freedom to be me" in places like the Bay Area without the interference of others.  But you are also getting the freedom to live in a doorway and wake up every morning in a puddle of your own urine, and no one is going to interfere with/or care about that either (other than how it effects the property values, which, obviously, are a hell of a lot more important than then the 'freedom casualties' are - because failure of that sort is just part of the price to pay for level of success available - can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs you know). 

And that level of freedom and total personal responsibility takes a lot of training to be able to successfully navigate your way through.  And, not incidentally , such places are frequently sought out by people who have a lot of drive, experience, education and discipline and a freakish work ethic.  So it scares me - or at least informs me to issue a slight warning (because I have to deal with and watch these sad cases traipse past me all the time) - that you better have the means to be successful in that environment or it's going to eat you alive.  You show up in SF or Seattle with no work history, no money, and a high school diploma, or worse, a GED or less, you are pretty much guaranteed to be standing on a street corner waiting, hoping, and praying for some gross old man to drive by, pick you up, cram his penis down your throat and shoot pecker snot all over your tonsils for twenty bucks so you can eat something because it's been days since you've had any real food.  That's a reality.  And once you get to that place the only solace available is the bottle, the crack pipe, or the needle and the spoon.

The other reality is that places that are sought out by people working overtime to succeed are very expensive and highly competitive.  I think that all things considered, that New York City, particularly Manhattan, comes across as the most tolerant place ever.  But it's tolerant not out of values, but because most of the people in NYC are so busy working to succeed, and succeed in the biggest possible way, on the biggest possible stage, precisely because Frank was right when he sang: And if I can make it there, I'm gonna make it anywhere... well, people like that have a thousand things to do before they even begin to notice you, much less care about you.  You know, they got 99 problems but you ain't one.

Of course if that's not your cup of tea, then there are places like Iowa.  Ahh Iowa.

Iowa, the land between two rivers, a place where the most exciting state slogan is "Plenty of Free Parking?"  A state that features two of the worst weather climates known to mankind, where the winter is bitterly cold with a high wind and the summer is so hot and humid that you wake up and you're already drenched in sweat?  And to add insult to injury the cost of heating a house in the winter is balanced out by the enormous air conditioning bill in the summer?  That Iowa?  The Iowa where the capital city Des Moines is a lot like the capital of Indiana?  You know what Kurt Vonnegut said about Indianapolis?  "There are 364 days, then there is a race, then there are 364 more days."  Well Des Moines is just like that.  Minus the race.

Iowa has one great deal going on (well two if you're into meth, because they make it and consume it like crazy) - and it's this.  A couple of world class universities in a place where the nearest excitement is at least a three to five hour drive from where you are going to school.  Iowa is so dull that going to the library to study all night is actually the most attractive option for fun.  So it's easy to get a very high quality education.  But, having a very high quality education makes you way, way, way overqualified for any job in the state so people graduate from those schools with their cars packed and idling in the parking lot and they leave as fast as they can.  In droves. 

As a direct result of that, Iowa is the oldest (in terms of the age of the population) state in the United States and no doubt leads the nation in the sales of products for the incontinent.  The funeral business is pretty brisk too.  So people into water sports and/or necrophilia or Hot Granny Sex are pretty happy there.

That's it's very Christian conservative, elderly and provincial makes it one of the least tolerant places I've ever been.  And in terms of  "nonjudgmental" no atmosphere is more judgmental than isolated small towns where everyone feels that they not only have the right, but an obligation gossip about your life.  Though you can take some small comfort in the knowledge that - 'god willing' - they'll be dead soon.

There is, as I noted, a huge meth problem among those people who are too slow, too dumb or too dull to find a way out and who are not old enough to die yet.  And for some, a large population of people on meth  - who as result of the drug are total sexual deviants when their not in some psycho/paranoid killing rage - make it easy pickings to find people willing to engage in totally degrading activates on a near constant basis if your willing to overlook the constant twitching and rotting teeth.

If you were my worst enemy - I mean if you were the absolute worst person I've ever met in my life, I still wouldn't wish Iowa on you unless you're going there to study or as a very weird and kinky sex tourist.

Quote from: Berger on January 17, 2012, 10:50:45 PM
From what I've heard, Australia is great with acceptance of LGBT, and it's not difficult to immigrate there.
I'd almost want to go there...except there's one thing that makes me not want to live there...those horrid, demon spiders that are the size of my face that actually exist in that country.
I'm actually not quite sure which one I'm more afraid of, homophobes in US politics or those giant demon spiders...but at least the homophobic politicians don't sneak into my house, nor do I ever cross paths with them while I'm walking around outside.

I think I'll stick with my plans to move to Canada, which is also better than the US, but where it's far too cold for giant demon spiders.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-B9VZhKi_KAY%2FTiDUJS4A6zI%2FAAAAAAAAAAA%2F7VmZZP5jwgw%2Fs400%2Fspideraussie.jpeg&hash=07c3860864466dfcf2e81569732b219fbb62706c)
NOPENOPENOPENOPE O.O

Yea i hate spiders. Terrified of them. Literally I throw things at it to get rid of it.

But Seattle, WA for most part is pretty tolerant. Although I hear West Seattle can have a bigots there.  Personally I live north of Seattle and had no problems with anyone at work or outside of work. I know WA has anti discrimination laws written that safeguards us as well. The downside is that its kind of expensive to live here at least it is for me but its worth it  :)

Jen

Quote from: Annah on January 15, 2012, 09:40:41 PM
My point is, there is no "Emerald City of Oz."

I would guess the OP is long gone, but I could not resist answering this  ;)

Oh sure, It's called Seattle, WA "The Emerald City"

It's great here overall (pricey).

C -

Ironically at this point I would myself avoid "known" hives of progressivism. They seem to be conducive to protests and riots at the moment. Places like Portland, Oregon for example... very progressive but the scene of street fights between antifa and other groups and I sure that will not be the last of it.

The reasons for this are known, and because of that I would personally avoid them and seek middle ground. Maybe even a place not especially known for its progressivism, as these places do tend to be more stable and polite in other ways.

Quote from: Katelyn on January 15, 2012, 06:12:02 PM
What places would you feel ok going around if you don't exactly look like a (non-trans) regular heterosexual person?

I know like in Los Angeles, especially around Hollywood and West Hollywood, and in the city of Long Beach (near the coast).  San Francisco as well.  Other places?

Hillcrest in San Diego, California. Very friendly.

Quote from: Kylo on March 22, 2019, 11:02:15 PM
Ironically at this point I would myself avoid "known" hives of progressivism. They seem to be conducive to protests and riots at the moment. Places like Portland, Oregon for example... very progressive but the scene of street fights between antifa and other groups and I sure that will not be the last of it.

The reasons for this are known, and because of that I would personally avoid them and seek middle ground. Maybe even a place not especially known for its progressivism, as these places do tend to be more stable and polite in other ways.

I agree with this above, it's like way different today from when this post was created. I know the reason, and it goes without saying.

It's essentially the oscillation of the social pendulum...

It's like why go to an area where people are angry at each other, makes no sense...