Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I hate it so much!  Just because I'm not a "woman" trapped in a male body, I don't feel like I would be allowed to transition or I would be seen as a freak even by other TG people.  Yet, I have to deal with dysphoria.  It may not be as bad as many other transsexuals, but it seriously impacts my life.  I don't have a sex life because I can't imagine myself having sex as anyone other than a woman.  I don't have a romantic life also because I would be seen at least as a "gendered" person which I don't want to be to if I can't present as a woman.  I also have to deal with the pain of not feeling feminine and as a woman and having my feminine feelings taken away from me (why?  because If I feel them, I start acting like a woman, which would OUT me in public and the public will think that I'm a gay boy, which will be so horrific to me!!!)  I also have to deal with the pain of not dressing up.  I have to deal with a @#$%^& dick that is not functioning for anything other than urination and the only reason I would keep it is to pleasure another woman if I choosed to be desperate enough to "pretend to be a male" again and hide my gender issues.  Also, I have to deal with "feeling male" which I just ultimately or end up getting so ->-bleeped-<-in angry at, especially when I see other girls and women.  I HATE it so much that I'm in this situation.  I hate it that my mind clings on to this "maleness" so much just for security and protection, and I hate it so much that I have to fear so much because I was born in the male world and I can't leave this ->-bleeped-<-in male world until I can fully transition.

I HATE it that I can't feel like I'm fully one of the transsexuals, because even though they probably had it worse than me growing up, they have the justification to transition and the sureness of their gender identity.  My spirit is deteriorating and my enthusiasm of life is getting worse and worse, only kept up with the hope of being able to transition.  YET I am so self conscious and I feel like if I don't act feminine or consistently womanly enough that other transsexuals would doubt my gender identity or not treat me as a woman.  Well, HOW can I act fully as a woman if I am not able to dress and talk as one?  ALSO, why do I have to feel like that since I don't like guys anywhere near as much as other transwomen or GGs, and that I am not as enthusiastic about children and raising a family (which may very well be because I haven't fully been able to go outside of this box called "being trapped in a male presentation" since I've thought about it at various times and I felt like I might like it if I grew up in the female world), that somehow I'm not "one of the girls"?  It disheartens me so much and has led to a lot of pain.  Only one time I was friends with a GG and I got to have a friendship that I only dreamed of, until I found out that she was homeless and that she was in bad need of a good therapist.  I wish I had more GG friends that saw me as a woman, which I can't because I haven't been able to transition.  And because I cannot claim to be a classic TS, I've been in the wilderness for 4 years with an unstable gender identity and lots of confusion.  I HATE it that I sometimes feel like its a choice.  I DONT want to have a choice, I want to be a woman.  I don't want to have a choice of genders, I want to be a woman!

I've never really suffered from intense GID or dysphoria.. I knew I was a woman, just stupidly suppressed it for as long as I could.

We come in all sorts of different shapes, colours and styles, doesn't mean we aren't trans.. There's really no such thing as a 'classic' transsexual - all out stories and lives are different. If you feel that transition is the right thing for you, go for it..

Katelyn, the whole idea of "classic TS" is pretty outdated. You're okay. Be yourself however you want. Trying to follow a script will only exhaust you, and your experience is as valid as anyone's.

Quote from: Katelyn on January 29, 2012, 03:08:13 AMWell, HOW can I act fully as a woman if I am not able to dress and talk as one?  ALSO, why do I have to feel like that since I don't like guys anywhere near as much as other transwomen or GGs, and that I am not as enthusiastic about children and raising a family (which may very well be because I haven't fully been able to go outside of this box called "being trapped in a male presentation" since I've thought about it at various times and I felt like I might like it if I grew up in the female world), that somehow I'm not "one of the girls"?  It disheartens me so much and has led to a lot of pain.

Lots of questions and little answer! "Being a woman" has nothing to do with how one "dresses". It is not what you have, wear or "who you are" that ultimately defines you but rather what you choose to do and make of a life which is otherwise highly unfair. I view being TS as a natural defense mechanism against the INSANITY and blind conformity of an increasingly intolerant and unsustainable world and you are basically a good person who deserves much more than "most women" in general - all those arrogant, potential "feminists" (my daughter is 14 and some of her friends are positively horrendous!) who wholly disrespect yet hold no meaning without constantly pursuing men in their lives at all?

Talk about CONFUSION! lol The day you stop comparing yourself to them as a STANDARD and be your own person will be the day you realize just how much you have to offer and will cease to care or worry about "what others, especially gg's, think" at all.

It's hard i know. Get over it! It's the price you pay for being a True Woman! They HATE and reject you because you dare to be different and with nothing perceived as being "in for them" it doesn't really matter if ur "man or woman".  It's the mindset not the gender! i'll never forget the day my 1st grade son (he's 12 now) came home from school upset because he felt "left out", excluded due "girls having more fun" . . . a cruel feeling that exists to this day it is THEM as a identifiable group that is wrong NOT YOU and him.

Don't get me wrong. Some men, especially miserably married ones, can be just as BAD!

We live in a matriarchy today, first time in history ever that women have succeeded in dictating and rule. Cheer up! Do NOT be like them for you are third gender and should be proud of it! Keep on doing what your doing and to "thy own self be true". I have personally witnessed old testament prophecy coming to pass and "this present (highly unfair, selfishly materialistic) form of the world is soon to pass away".

VOTE RON PAUL 2012 ! Another person who lives by principal and dares to be "different". They, his own Republican party & the forever delusional lying media, HATE him too precisely because he is a giving, good person who speaks the simply TRUTH and is not just stupidy selfish like them, like most !

I have to agree with Beverley.  You certainly sound like a transsexual woman to me. The question is what course of action to take. 
After adopting an Existentialist approach to life I look at transition and simply ask, "what is neccessary here?", and accept responsibility for my own actions, and avoid attempts at self-evasion.  I certainly could not have continued to live as a man once I had discovered that I identified as a woman. 
As for any percieved masculine appearance, I know a few Butch lesbians who deliberately present as more masculine than me, and nobody, including myself, would ever regard them as not being women.  We come in all shapes and sizes.
I have reached the conclusion that those of us who are trans have a real chance at coming closer to an authentic life than most people.  That is the ultimate goal of the Existentialist philosophy.  Main thing is be honest with yourself, and progress at a comfortable rate, and you can't go far wrong.

Karen.

it's not as black and white as you seem to believe.  just as there is a massive spectrum of sexual orientation, there's also a massive spectrum of transgender feelings and experiences.  you do not need to fit into a cookie cutter TG sequence of events to justify who you are and why you need to transition.  i'm speaking as ftm, but i don't fall into the typical experience either.  i didn't know as a child i was transgender, my only indication was that i didn't fit in properly, something that i didn't understand or fully come to terms with until i was in my twenties.  what matters is how you feel inside, and what will make you happy, not how other people might percieve your reasons for transitioning. 

edit: also, i just want to add that attraction to other people has nothing to do with your gender presentation.  yeah, i'm kinda interested in women, but i'm attracted to guys way more.  if you don't want to raise a family, that's your prerogative and really shouldn't have anything to do with transitioning.  my sister is cis, straight, and abhors the idea of having kids. 

Quote from: Beverley on January 29, 2012, 07:50:56 AM
Are you having a 'bad hair day' Kiera?

NEVER! Funny you should ask! Sun is shining, solar power is "tracking"! Daughter had a birthday party last night, has a room full of middle school girls sleeping over and my son is right there, happy as sole privileged boy curled up with 'em. I'm pushing 60 and have longer, better hair ('cept for greys which i color) than most gg's, which BUGS THEM no end . . .

Unsure what to make of "dad" it is they that need to get over it looks like it's gonna be A GREAT DAY !

( just posted a q here (http://www.outbackpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6009&p=35859#p35859) )

I agree with all of the previous post but would like to add a few things. You sound like you are at the point I was about a year and a half ago before I could look in the mirror and say , "I'm a transsexual", out loud. The very first steo is self-acceptance. After that, it gets easier.

A year and a half ago, I could not have imagined telling a therapist all the secrets that I had so fiercely guarded for all of my life. Fast forward 6 months and I'm telling a complete stranger EVERYTHING faster than she can write it down. She commented that she usually has to "drag this kind of stuff out of people over many months".  I figured that I was paying her so I was going to lay it ALL out and it went well.

Two months later, I'm sitting in an exam room talking to a sympathetic doctor that my therapist had found for me and I walked out with scripts for HRT. I could tell he had never dealt with TS stuff before but he was very sympathetic and caring and didnt seem judgemental at all. The point is, once you accept who YOU are, it gets better and easier.

I'd encourage you to find a therapist that is esperienced in gender issues and open up to them. It's hard at first and it may help to just write it all down and give it to her to read. I gave mine a Web-Log that consisted of posts that I had made here, emails to friends as well as any other details I could think of no matter how embarassing it felt.

One of the most important things I have learned about all of this is that the feelings only get more intense over time. You can deal with all of this now or you can fight it tooth and nail and you will be dealing with it in "crisis mode" when the GID flares and demands that you do something.  If you start dealing with it now, you can have more control over the pace of things and make logical decisions vs. "I have to do this NOW or die."

For clarification though, the previous is based on my personal observations and experience and may or may not apply to you or any other but in my non-professional OPINION, is applicable to many others like us. I wish you luck in finding peace with yourself and a succesful journey if you decide this is the path for inner peace for yourself.

Thanks for your comments.

I guess I've gotten the idea that only "classic" TS people can transition, at least without lying to medical professionals, because of both everything I have heard about TS people in public (documentaries, TV shows, stories of TS people, etc...)  This is why I have felt as an

Because of my lack of sureness in my gender identity, a part of my mind for the past 4 years especially has been trying to "tempt" me (because of all the "If I'm not trans how much easier life would be"), scare me ("your going to lose your parents and be possibly on the street"), criticize women, and even wrestle me in order to get me to go back, but I resist it (and its not like I didn't listen to it before, I did but then within a few days to a month, I'd stop listening to it.) 

The progress I made until maybe 2 and a half years ago was a slow pulling away of what I call my "sexist wall" that kept me from freely exploring certain things about being a woman (and this process was going on for about 14 years).  The reason I started fantasizing having sex as a woman around 9 years ago was because I let myself break down more of the wall and I discovered that I really liked the idea of having sex as a woman (whereas I never did about the other way of having sex.)  A few years ago, I also felt for a while comfort in seeing myself being with a guy and being a mother (or at least in raising adopted children), to the point that I wouldn't want to have children unless I am as a woman. 

My biggest motivation has been HOW I FELT when I freely was feminine and saw myself as a girl / woman.  To me it (when it lasted) has been the most positive experience in my life (especially including when I discovered how feminine I could naturally act and talk), and yes perhaps the only time that I've been truly comfortable with myself and happy about my life.  I used to dress a lot when I was little just to achieve that feeling of me as a girl / woman (as well as the femininity and the girlie/womanly feelings.)

Also, when I was going to a TG club 4 years ago, I was always disappointed with taking my clothes and the wig off.  I would wait until the last minute to.  I was also always disappointed seeing my body, my body invalidated me and looked so disgusting since it wasn't what I wanted and not a reflection of me (of course because it looked male).  I felt very frustrated at that time period given that I had to "pretend" that I had a female body (when of course I wanted a real female body) AND that I felt that my male side kept my female self from developing. 


Of course, I have had problems with "being male" for quite some time, to the point that I realized not long ago that I'm either a woman or someone with no gender.  I stopped making new friends with guys after I graduated from college 4 and a half years ago, and I started to distance myself from the existing guy friends afterwards (because I was fed up with pretending to be male.)

What I do hate is that if I don't come off as a classic TS, people would think that I'm not a real TS and I'm doing it as a choice, and even I thought of it as a choice before.  Is it a choice for a bisexual if they can be with both genders but ultimately likes being with one gender far more than the other?  Then, is it a choice if I could be in both genders (at least be able to act in the male gender) but am far more satisfied being a woman?   Stephanie Miller identified as a lesbian woman because even though she had been with guys, all here meaningful relationships had been with women.

Yes, I could just ignore what others think, but that's not in my nature and unless I really get myself to continually adopt a certain attitude and mindset (which I have been thinking about lately), the only way I can do it.

Quote from: Katelyn on January 29, 2012, 11:02:02 AM
Thanks for your comments.

I guess I've gotten the idea that only "classic" TS people can transition, at least without lying to medical professionals, because of both everything I have heard about TS people in public (documentaries, TV shows, stories of TS people, etc...)  This is why I have felt as an

Because of my lack of sureness in my gender identity, a part of my mind for the past 4 years especially has been trying to "tempt" me (because of all the "If I'm not trans how much easier life would be"), scare me ("your going to lose your parents and be possibly on the street"), criticize women, and even wrestle me in order to get me to go back, but I resist it (and its not like I didn't listen to it before, I did but then within a few days to a month, I'd stop listening to it.) 

The progress I made until maybe 2 and a half years ago was a slow pulling away of what I call my "sexist wall" that kept me from freely exploring certain things about being a woman (and this process was going on for about 14 years).  The reason I started fantasizing having sex as a woman around 9 years ago was because I let myself break down more of the wall and I discovered that I really liked the idea of having sex as a woman (whereas I never did about the other way of having sex.)  A few years ago, I also felt for a while comfort in seeing myself being with a guy and being a mother (or at least in raising adopted children), to the point that I wouldn't want to have children unless I am as a woman. 

My biggest motivation has been HOW I FELT when I freely was feminine and saw myself as a girl / woman.  To me it (when it lasted) has been the most positive experience in my life (especially including when I discovered how feminine I could naturally act and talk), and yes perhaps the only time that I've been truly comfortable with myself and happy about my life.  I used to dress a lot when I was little just to achieve that feeling of me as a girl / woman (as well as the femininity and the girlie/womanly feelings.)

Also, when I was going to a TG club 4 years ago, I was always disappointed with taking my clothes and the wig off.  I would wait until the last minute to.  I was also always disappointed seeing my body, my body invalidated me and looked so disgusting since it wasn't what I wanted and not a reflection of me (of course because it looked male).  I felt very frustrated at that time period given that I had to "pretend" that I had a female body (when of course I wanted a real female body) AND that I felt that my male side kept my female self from developing. 


Of course, I have had problems with "being male" for quite some time, to the point that I realized not long ago that I'm either a woman or someone with no gender.  I stopped making new friends with guys after I graduated from college 4 and a half years ago, and I started to distance myself from the existing guy friends afterwards (because I was fed up with pretending to be male.)

What I do hate is that if I don't come off as a classic TS, people would think that I'm not a real TS and I'm doing it as a choice, and even I thought of it as a choice before.  Is it a choice for a bisexual if they can be with both genders but ultimately likes being with one gender far more than the other?  Then, is it a choice if I could be in both genders but am far more satisfied being a woman?

Yes, I could just ignore what others think, but that's not in my nature and unless I really get myself to continually adopt a certain attitude and mindset (which I have been thinking about lately), the only way I can do it.

Souinds like the thing you hate about the whole thing i shaving to sqeeze yourself into a specific Gender Role, just because you have certain identity or feelings, right?
If so, then you share that with many Gendervarianted people, and that is also the reason why some transitioners never fully find themselves in harmony after transition, as they feel that they are expected to be and feel in a certain way.
And not the least, they are expected even from people in the Community to feel like "All woman" now, although they perhaps are more leaning towsrds Genderqueer/Intergender or something similar(Kate Bornstein, for example, is a good example on this).

As for your feelings, I can't help to note that you do not say anywhere that you actually feel or consider yourself to be a woman, but rather that you want to be a woman.
I find this important, as you don't have to feel like you are a woman just because you want to transition. In fact, many transitioners transition because they are driven to become woman, rather than because they already feel that they are females, or how to put it.
You would be surprised if you knew how many those are, actually, although they may act the part officially of being "primary transsexuals", as they are often bullied even by people within the Community if they would be open about their reasons for transitioning, although their feelings and reasons are just as valid and strong as any ohers.

Quoteit's not as black and white as you seem to believe.  just as there is a massive spectrum of sexual orientation, there's also a massive spectrum of transgender feelings and experiences.  you do not need to fit into a cookie cutter TG sequence of events to justify who you are and why you need to transition

But that's not what you see in the media or in the mainstream.  That's also not what I see on the internet except for FTM's and genetic female genderqueer people.  The lack of a "presentation" of a full spectrum makes you feel alienated if there's noone representing closest to you.  I guess my experience has also been biased in that I had been going to support groups for a long time, and I saw there either flat out TS's, or questioning or crossdressers (sometimes), not that much in between.  Certainly no genderqueer (genetic males) or androgynous or TS's that didn't claim that they were not classic TS's.  In addition I get to see these transwomen that look so good and that I get jealous of.

i think jealousy crosses over in all aspects of life... we see someone who looks good and want to emulate that, cis or trans or otherwise.  also, maybe i'm not able to see as much expectancy to fit into the full spectrum since i can only speak from an ftm point of view, but from what i've seen and experienced in my own local support group and online, people tend to be open and welcoming towards everyone.  i think it's pretty hypocritical for any trans person to exclude someone for having an atypical experience.

some of your last post struck a chord with me-- one of my first indicators as to what was 'wrong' with me was my problem with sex as a woman.  me and my ex husband were having major problems, mostly because i was getting so upset about sex.  i hated it and we didn't understand why, until i really started digging deeper into my issues and uncovering the reasons.  when i thought of myself having sex as a man, it was totally different.  so i can completely relate to that, vice versa.

Quote from: Bishounen on January 29, 2012, 11:37:34 AM
As for your feelings, I can't help to note that you do not say anywhere that you actually feel or consider yourself to be a woman, but rather that you want to be a woman.
I find this important, as you don't have to feel like you are a woman just because you want to transition. In fact, many transitioners transition because they are driven to become woman, rather than because they already feel that they are females, or how to put it.
You would be surprised if you knew how many those are, actually, although they may act the part officially of being "primary transsexuals", as they are often bullied even by people within the Community if they would be open about their reasons for transitioning, although their feelings and reasons are just as valid and strong as any ohers.

There have been numerous times within the last 4 years that I let myself to feel female even while not dressed as a woman, but I had to stop it because I felt like talking with my female voice and acting feminine, and I couldn't allow myself to do that.  It happened especially on long drives, but I had to end it once I came to the gas station or rest stop.

Even then though, thanks for those words.  And thats what I was trying to get to when talking before about the lack of inclusion in the TG community, and the alienation I felt there in L.A. given what I feared people would think of me.

Personally, I kind of feel you are going about this the wrong way. Instead of trying to work out who you are, which is a process that will complete when you die, work out what you want. Do you want to start HRT? Do you want SRS? Do you want people to perceive you as female? Then do it. Why spend so much time agonizing over your reasons? The only thing you really need to know for sure is your desires.

For the record, I've gotten ->-bleeped-<- for being queer, for not dressing feminine or wearing face paint, for being sex-positive, for being feminist, etc. But none of that makes me a bloke, despite the "classic TS" model. And none of it has been an impediment to my transition (my SRS is in a little over 3 weeks). Honestly, I find a lot of the assumptions around "classic transsexualism" ->-bleeped-<-ed up, sexist and creepy as all hell. I can't imagine why anyone would even want to measure themselves against that standard.

Just decide what you want to do with your body and your life. Let the rest of it sort itself out.

Quote from: Sarah7 on January 29, 2012, 12:06:42 PM
Personally, I kind of feel you are going about this the wrong way. Instead of trying to work out who you are, which is a process that will complete when you die, work out what you want. Do you want to start HRT? Do you want SRS? Do you want people to perceive you as female? Then do it. Why spend so much time agonizing over your reasons? The only thing you really need to know for sure is your desires

The only things that have been stopping me is the lack of a significant social support network, the fear of how others would treat me if I don't pass, and my fear of losing the favoritism of my parents, which does matter when I feel lonely or unloved or especially scared of not having a "life" safety net (especially with how the economy has been these past few years.)  Lately, I moved back with my mom because of health problems (with my digestive system) that have since then gotten better, but I need to get and afford insurance before I can move out on my own again (which may be hard if they find out that I was suffering from stomach issues last year, they could have an excuse to rescind the policy if I don't disclose it to them).  In addition, my dad doesn't seem to want to support my mom and sister much (my mom has been divorced for a long time) and my mom struggles on $1000 a month at times and is not capable of getting a job that she can support herself in Tucson because she doesn't have a GED (which is because she's an immigrant and now is trying to get but is stuck in the math section) and my sister is stubborn and wants to stay in home all day on the computer.

Quote from: Katelyn on January 29, 2012, 12:05:09 PM
There have been numerous times within the last 4 years that I let myself to feel female even while not dressed as a woman, but I had to stop it because I felt like talking with my female voice and acting feminine, and I couldn't allow myself to do that.  It happened especially on long drives, but I had to end it once I came to the gas station or rest stop.

Even then though, thanks for those words.  And thats what I was trying to get to when talking before about the lack of inclusion in the TG community, and the alienation I felt there in L.A. given what I feared people would think of me.

I understand what you are saying, then. :)
The solution is easy, although it might seem difficult right now; Ignore other peoples opinions about your expressions and Identity and just be how you want to be.
I fully understand how it may seem a very difficult and hard thing to do right now, but it is the one and only solution, if you truly want to find harmony, and finding harmony is after all the very reason for transitioning, right?

In other words, do not on any condition do as you suggested when you wrote;

QuoteYes, I could just ignore what others think, but that's not in my nature and unless I really get myself to continually adopt a certain attitude and mindset (which I have been thinking about lately), the only way I can do it.

, and adopt a certain attitude and mindset just to be accepted.
Because that's just self-erasing, and frankly, also quite scary.
Don't do it. Be yourself. Do not forget; It was because of people that refused to be in any other way than themselves, that the very Trans-Community came into existence.
Let it continue that way, and if people "disapprove", screw them, and let them know that you "disapprove" of them.

Quote from: Sarah7 on January 29, 2012, 12:06:42 PM
For the record, I've gotten ->-bleeped-<- for being queer, for not dressing feminine or wearing face paint, for being sex-positive, for being feminist, etc. But none of that makes me a bloke, despite the "classic TS" model. And none of it has been an impediment to my transition (my SRS is in a little over 3 weeks). Honestly, I find a lot of the assumptions around "classic transsexualism" ->-bleeped-<-ed up, sexist and creepy as all hell. I can't imagine why anyone would even want to measure themselves against that standard.

Just decide what you want to do with your body and your life. Let the rest of it sort itself out.

And this is exactly why so many of us dog pile threads about Classic Transsexuals and ->-bleeped-<- transsexuals.  It is just utter nonsense.  In the real world I don't hear any of it.

My therapist is fine with my usual jeans and tee.  If I wear something nicer I usually get a compliment, but she has already made it clear that none of that matters in terms of "gatekeeping".  She is fine with my level of makeup (foundation and maybe lipstick).  She is fine that I am a lesbian.

The same is true of all my primary care physician, my laser tech, my FFS surgeon, and even my friends. 

You only hear the attacks on us from the "Classic Transsexuals"  themselves.  Unfortunately a lot of them are LOUD.  I do not mean this as an attack of drag queens. but the most vocal you aren't trans enough comes from the group that started with drag and moved into trans.  I'm not just referencing a few posters here, but also people i know in person.  The fact I've never done drag doesn't mean I'm not trans.  The fact I don't OVER-do my makeup doesn't mean I'm not trans (TONS of women wear NO makeup).  But you know what?  Even as loud as they can be they hold NO POWER over your transition other than what you give them yourself.

The psych/medical community doesn't care and few "subscribe" to CT/->-bleeped-<-.

Everyone's path is different and no one has the right to challenge your identity.  If your friends are saying you aren't trans enough then they aren't your friends and its time to move on.

If anyone gives you a hard time over being "not trans enough" you could ask them if they know you, and your life inside out.  If they don't then then maybe they should have a big cup of  " shut the f*** up", and mind their own business.  Unless they are prepared to die in your place, they are not entitled to tell you how to live your life.

Karen.

Quote from: Jeneva on January 29, 2012, 01:31:56 PM
And this is exactly why so many of us dog pile threads about Classic Transsexuals and ->-bleeped-<- transsexuals.  It is just utter nonsense. In the real world I don't hear any of it.

My therapist is fine with my usual jeans and tee.  If I wear something nicer I usually get a compliment, but she has already made it clear that none of that matters in terms of "gatekeeping".  She is fine with my level of makeup (foundation and maybe lipstick).  She is fine that I am a lesbian.

The same is true of all my primary care physician, my laser tech, my FFS surgeon, and even my friends. 

You only hear the attacks on us from the "Classic Transsexuals"  themselves.  Unfortunately a lot of them are LOUD.  I do not mean this as an attack of drag queens. but the most vocal you aren't trans enough comes from the group that started with drag and moved into trans.  I'm not just referencing a few posters here, but also people i know in person.  The fact I've never done drag doesn't mean I'm not trans.  The fact I don't OVER-do my makeup doesn't mean I'm not trans (TONS of women wear NO makeup).  But you know what?  Even as loud as they can be they hold NO POWER over your transition other than what you give them yourself.

The psych/medical community doesn't care and few "subscribe" to CT/->-bleeped-<-.

Everyone's path is different and no one has the right to challenge your identity.  If your friends are saying you aren't trans enough then they aren't your friends and its time to move on.

Funny, because that is also the very reason why I always defend those that identify as, for instance, Autogynephiles, simply because "Holy trannies" all too often wants to decide the sefidentified Autogynephiles identities for them, instead of just accepting them, as they think that accepting the term will mean that they are accepting to be such themselves(As several people have actually worded it).

I am not an Autogynephile myself, but I do know that they often have a very hard time getting accepted from people that considers themselves "True Transsexuals"whatever that is, as those "True Transsexuals" simply considers the mere existence of people that identify as Autogynephiles, a threat.
Funnily enough, however, Autogynephiles is very seldomly rejected by Transvestites, Crossdressers and FTM's(Not lumping FTM's together with Crossdressers, mind you, I am merely mentioning the groups that seem to have dramatically less problems with people identifying as ->-bleeped-<-'s).
FTM's often seem to really be "The cool cats" on matters that MTF's often flies in the roof about. Perhaps it's a guy-thing.*Shrugs*

Anyway, as said, I always defends ->-bleeped-<-'s for the reason that they need a place too, without being questioned from a non-accepting surrounding.
Here people often counter by saying that; "Oh but they are just confused and have identified themselves wrong and we want to tell them that!". To which I reply; Really? How do you know? According to Anti-trans Activists, YOU are wrong and even delusional, and you will often hear from those Anti-activists that "there are no such thing as being born with the wrong body", and hence "no such thing as Transsexualism". Sounds familiar?
These people, the Anti Trans-activists, commit the exact same error that people in the T-Community do when they are deciding someone others identity for them and trying to tell them what they are not, such as telling a selfidentifyed Autogynephile that the condition is a "pile of rubbish".

An extremely rude thing to do, not the least as it is actual discrimination, but that is how people all too often reacts when feeling threatened, and that is also the very reason why people that have hated and even bashed up gays have later found themseves to be gay- Because they felt threatened.

Just accept each other, darn it. In my opinion, this board would benefit much from a ->-bleeped-<--subforum for the above stated very reasons, but until that remote possibility, I will always defend such people. And after that, too.

Quote from: Bishounen on January 30, 2012, 09:58:54 AM
Funny, because that is also the very reason why I always defend those that identify as, for instance, Autogynephiles, simply because "Holy trannies" all too often wants to decide the sefidentified Autogynephiles identities for them, instead of just accepting them, as they think that accepting the term will mean that they are accepting to be such themselves(As several people have actually worded it).

I am not an Autogynephile myself, but I do know that they often have a very hard time getting accepted from people that considers themselves "True Transsexuals"whatever that is, as those "True Transsexuals" simply considers the mere existence of people that identify as Autogynephiles, a threat.
Funnily enough, however, Autogynephiles is very seldomly rejected by Transvestites, Crossdressers and FTM's(Not lumping FTM's together with Crossdressers, mind you, I am merely mentioning the groups that seem to have dramatically less problems with people identifying as ->-bleeped-<-'s).
FTM's often seem to really be "The cool cats" on matters that MTF's often flies in the roof about. Perhaps it's a guy-thing.*Shrugs*

Anyway, as said, I always defends ->-bleeped-<-'s for the reason that they need a place too, without being questioned from a non-accepting surrounding.
Here people often counter by saying that; "Oh but they are just confused and have identified themselves wrong and we want to tell them that!". To which I reply; Really? How do you know? According to Anti-trans Activists, YOU are wrong and even delusional, and you will often hear from those Anti-activists that "there are no such thing as being born with the wrong body", and hence "no such thing as Transsexualism". Sounds familiar?
These people, the Anti Trans-activists, commit the exact same error that people in the T-Community do when they are deciding someone others identity for them and trying to tell them what they are not, such as telling a selfidentifyed Autogynephile that the condition is a "pile of rubbish".

An extremely rude thing to do, not the least as it is actual discrimination, but that is how people all too often reacts when feeling threatened, and that is also the very reason why people that have hated and even bashed up gays have later found themseves to be gay- Because they felt threatened.

Just accept each other, darn it. In my opinion, this board would benefit much from a ->-bleeped-<--subforum for the above stated very reasons, but until that remote possibility, I will always defend such people. And after that, too.

Please look at the context of this thread before blindly replying.  This thread is from someone that was told they had to fit the "Classic Transsexual" model.  I was trying to point out that in the real world no one uses those guidelines. 

If you want to ID with the concept behind a classic transsexual fine.  If you want to ID as the concept behind ->-bleeped-<- fine.  But to say we are all either/or IS utter nonsense just like I said before and you quoted.  I will defend that position and that is in no way denying others their identity as you accused.

The OP got into this mess because believers in this theory pushed her into believing that is the only way.



*****EDIT TO ADD******


BTW I'm sure it was clear from my earlier post that I would be considered ->-bleeped-<- if we have to do either/or.  I do not ID as ->-bleeped-<- because I feel it is a derogatory term because in the theory it is lessor and should be denied transition.

It seems to me that the way I'd be judged by many transsexuals, as well as by my experience, transsexuals that think that "one must feel female in order to truly be transsexual", that I'd be best off associating with genderqueer / androgynous, inclusive LGBT gatherings, and open minded / inclusive groups (which is something I've been thinking of anyway.) 

My dysphoria isn't as bad as others seems to be, at least most days.  I'm also not suicidal, i don't "hate" my genitalia nor am i super depressed its just i think i would be happier as a woman and my life would improve from it.

Nothing wrong with being Androgynous or Genderqueer.  Attending gatherings of members of the LGBTI community sounds like a great idea.  You may well find that is how you identify and can avoid the whole transition experience, with it's dramas and  costs.
It is likely that family and friends will give you less grief that way as well, which would make life a bit easier.  Being gay, genderqueer, or androgynous in appearance is far less "in your face" than changing sex in front of the ones you love. 
If you decide you are in fact transsexual, at least you will have explored a possible alternative, and won't have any doubts on that score.
As I have written before, and I don't claim any originality, be kind to yourself and don't judge yourself more harshly than you would your best friend.

Karen.

Quote from: justmeinoz on January 31, 2012, 05:29:01 AM
Nothing wrong with being Androgynous or Genderqueer.  Attending gatherings of members of the LGBTI community sounds like a great idea.  You may well find that is how you identify and can avoid the whole transition experience, with it's dramas and  costs.

Some androgyne/GQ people do still transition though. which can create a series of interesting conversations with family/friends.

Quote from: justmeinoz on January 31, 2012, 05:29:01 AM
Nothing wrong with being Androgynous or Genderqueer.  Attending gatherings of members of the LGBTI community sounds like a great idea.  You may well find that is how you identify and can avoid the whole transition experience, with it's dramas and  costs.
It is likely that family and friends will give you less grief that way as well, which would make life a bit easier.  Being gay, genderqueer, or androgynous in appearance is far less "in your face" than changing sex in front of the ones you love. 
If you decide you are in fact transsexual, at least you will have explored a possible alternative, and won't have any doubts on that score.
As I have written before, and I don't claim any originality, be kind to yourself and don't judge yourself more harshly than you would your best friend.

Karen.

I didn't say that I wanted to be, I said that I was thinking of associating with them.  I would rather not think of not transitioning, I get depressed and feel like my life is ruined.  Even if I was androgynous or GQ, it would be as a "compromise" and likely make me yearn more to transition anyway.

Katelyn, I think you need a hug...

*hugs*

Now, just relax. Let yourself be. Myself, I've never met any TS that was so obnoxious that they said "Hey Beth, you're not a real TS!"...they're a pretty casual group, on the whole.

*hugs*

Quote from: Caseyyy on January 31, 2012, 07:52:49 AM
Some androgyne/GQ people do still transition though. which can create a series of interesting conversations with family/friends.

Absolutely.
If, or perhaps rather, When, I one day have full SRS, I will identify as a Femboy or a Bishounen with a snatch, despite my Brain and Soul being feminine.
My Identity and Gender expressions do not have to change in any way only because I have a certain anatomy.

Hey Katelyn....if you don't mind me asking, do you have OCD? I am asking only because I suffer from OCD and have a lot of the same doubts you do. I am always doubting my validity as a trans person. It use to be a lot worse than it is now though....I have thankfully learned to just not care....literally not care rather I fit the narrative or not and just be myself.

In a lot of ways I don't fit the "classic narrative" either.

I didn't realize I was trans until I was 18....I also tend to be a bit on the androgynous side sometimes. But mostly I just identify as FTM.

Don't try to fit yourself into a box and don't worry so much about labels. Just be yourself. And this is coming from someone who use to struggle with this issue and sometimes I still do struggle with it. I have just learned to not get so wrapped up in labels. 

Now I just focus on being myself and not caring about the labels.