Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hello all, hugs :)

I have been out of this for awhile dealing with the X-wife, moving, and my therapist. All is getting better now since I received my HRT letter on Sunday and on Monday I had my Physical with my Endocrinologist. I was told that my options were either by-weekly shots, a pill, or a slow-release tablet placed under my skin that lasts about 3 months.

The doc said the injection would give me the quickest result, with the only bad part having the lows and highs.

I am curious what sort of testimonies or experiences or advise anyone may have.

Thanks again!

- Breanne :-*

I'm on the pill I kind of want to ask about shots, and hope that my medical covers that.

The pill is going all fine and dandy unless I don't eat that day...
then I am feeling pretty damn rough and sickly. I had a bit of abdominal cramps in the start.
But I am okay now, and they seem to be working fine.

I've thought about shots, but I too worry about the ups and downs and also I'm not really liking the idea of being poked with a sharp instrument that often.

I take estrodiol pills, but don't need a high dose because of having had low t beforehand. I stay pretty level in mood since I split my dose between morning and night.

Its only been two days since my first injection and my tits are sensitive like a motha.(when before they weren't growing much)

I was on pills for 6 months, I didn't like doing it that way at all though.
I felt like it was too temporary, or it wasn't working.
I always had a mini heart attack if i slept in and was an hour or two late for my morning pill.

So yeah.
I like the whole injection thing way better.
The shot doesn't hurt at all.

Hi Breanne Rose,

Here is one experience of the shot

Quote from: Annah on November 07, 2011, 08:42:22 AM
with my weekly estrogen shots i noticed some pros and cons

Pros: physical transformation was lightening fast. I do not think i would have had the same results with the pill but who knows?

Euphoria by mid week.

Cons: Since i am being injected with pure estrogen for a weeks worth in one shot on Monday I am pretty emotional on day one since i have more estrogen in me than 3 pregnant women lol.

Day two not as emotional but still there

Day three, four, five and six I am right as rain

Day seven I am cranky as the estrogen has tapered and I'm ready for the next shot.

I myself have been on the patch, which appears relative effective. I don't know anyone on the pill, as it isn't a favourite over here. Seems to over work the liver a bit, and hence is not as effective as other means.

Hope this helps.

Be safe, well and happy
Lotsa huggs
Catherine

the pill isn't that bad on your liver if you take it sublingually

Quote from: EmilyElizabeth on February 09, 2012, 04:38:07 PM
the pill isn't that bad on your liver if you take it sublingually

True. I've been taking it sublingualy and my liver tests are all normal and stable each blood test I get.

I'm on transdermal 2X a day creme and I feel this is a good way to go. No liver pass issues and honestly I don't like needles so not going that route!

Quote from: EmilyElizabeth on February 09, 2012, 04:38:07 PM
the pill isn't that bad on your liver if you take it sublingually

It isn't that bad on your liver if you just swallow it.

This whole liver thing is a myth, yes it's not outright impossible for estrogen to contribute to poorer liver function.

But I personally haven't heard of anyone who took oral estrogen at anything approaching a sane dosage that had impaired liver function where they didn't have a liver problem already for other reasons.

There's a LOT of medications that are contraindicated as potentially elevating certain liver enzymes. Cyproterone Acetate is one prescribed for transgender purposes that is indicated for hepatic toxicity.

But estrogen is not, spironolactone is not. That's not to say you shouldn't keep an eye on your liver and that you shouldn't proceed with caution if you're already at a high risk group.

But this outright paranoia that you take estrogen and need a liver transplant a few years later is just ridiculous.

Quote from: Asfsd4214 on February 09, 2012, 11:42:34 PM
It isn't that bad on your liver if you just swallow it.

This whole liver thing is a myth, yes it's not outright impossible for estrogen to contribute to poorer liver function.

But I personally haven't heard of anyone who took oral estrogen at anything approaching a sane dosage that had impaired liver function where they didn't have a liver problem already for other reasons.

There's a LOT of medications that are contraindicated as potentially elevating certain liver enzymes. Cyproterone Acetate is one prescribed for transgender purposes that is indicated for hepatic toxicity.

But estrogen is not, spironolactone is not. That's not to say you shouldn't keep an eye on your liver and that you shouldn't proceed with caution if you're already at a high risk group.

But this outright paranoia that you take estrogen and need a liver transplant a few years later is just ridiculous.

I kind of agree with this too. I would go on to say that I think if you just swallow it, you're  probably preventing some of the estrogen from getting into your blood, as it will be broken down by the liver before reaching the blood.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on February 09, 2012, 11:56:23 PM
I kind of agree with this too. I would go on to say that I think if you just swallow it, you're  probably preventing some of the estrogen from getting into your blood, as it will be broken down by the liver before reaching the blood.

And let me add, ~ 90% of oral E2 is 'dumped' by stomach acid and liver first-pass i.e. before any gets into the blood stream.

The very highest spec. E patch gives 100mcg, 0.1mg/day! –only-. Now compare that with the highest post-menopause E2 pill. No need to mention, we all know.

I think both compare in actual strength, that explains how much is 'dumped' with oral.
I hope the patch spec I mentioned is not dumped by the 'local authority' - lest that sentence make little sense.
We'll wait and see.

Axélle

... which may explain why my E-levels are thru the roof and my testosterone is on the low side of normal for female range. I take sublingually and do not lift my tongue from the bottom of my mouth for 10 minutes.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on February 10, 2012, 12:34:31 AM
... which may explain why my E-levels are thru the roof and my testosterone is on the low side of normal for female range. I take sublingually and do not lift my tongue from the bottom of my mouth for 10 minutes.

It seems also save to say... that patches have less T suppressing effect then does oral.
This by NO MEANS is just a tg issue, as ggs on ERT/HRT are also having issues with to low Free-T.
If Tot-T is low-ish and SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin) is on the high-ish end, there be hardly any Free-T available for one's libido.
This is the way it often seem to go... with oral.
Too little Free-T , never mind Tot-T, effects libido and of course energy levels - needed to enjoy one's libido - never mind going for a nice long walk, hum.

Axélle

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on February 09, 2012, 11:56:23 PM
I kind of agree with this too. I would go on to say that I think if you just swallow it, you're  probably preventing some of the estrogen from getting into your blood, as it will be broken down by the liver before reaching the blood.

From what I've read, the estrogen I am taking, estriol,  is 10X more effective transdermal vs oral.

Stephe,

Quote
Estriol is a metabolic waste product of estradiol metabolism that can still have some effects in a limited number of estrogen receptors. It is formed in the liver and is 8% as potent as estradiol and 14% as potent as estrone. Once estriol is bound to an estrogen receptor, it blocks the stronger estradiol from acting there. Thus it is considered to have both estrogenic and anti-estrogenic actions. There is also some evidence that, because it is so weak and blocks the stronger forms, estriol can be considered to have "anti-cancer" action. To take it in quantities adequate to have effects comparable to estradiol (that is, to occupy as many receptors as a needs-meeting level of estradiol), however, the risk rises to the same level with estriol as with estradiol. A particular breakdown product of estriol, 16-hydroxyestrone, is elevated in women receiving oral estriol and is associated with an increased risk of breast and cervical cancers. Estriol has also been implicated as a source of interference in lab tests for estradiol, leading to "clinically significant" testing errors. It is believed to have special efficacy for genitourinary tissues and skin generally, but that is poorly studied and results of existing research are not conclusive.

Read more: http://surmeno.blogspot.com/2006/07/three-estrogens-estradiol-estrone.html#ixzz1m2lxB4z8 (http://surmeno.blogspot.com/2006/07/three-estrogens-estradiol-estrone.html#ixzz1m2lxB4z8)

In fact this seems to confirm what I was going to say, that estradiol patches then must be ~ 100 - 200x stronger then oral estradiol ... see my earlier post for comparisons.

The cost though be pretty much the same as i.e. 28 days EstroFem costs the same as 28 days Estraderm of ~ same potency.

Axélle

I don't know if you followed any of my other posts, I have severe allergic reactions to estradiol. I'm happy for you that you can take estradiol, I don't have that luxury. I'm not an idiot, I've done a pile of research, tried about a dozen different forms of estradiol and feel lucky I found -some form- of estrogen I can finally tolerate. Please don't lecture me on these meds..

The only point of my post was saying for THE MEDS I TAKE, transdermal is said to be 10X as effective. I highly doubt transdermal meds of the same type are 100-200X stronger but then again I'm not a doctor.

Quote from: Axélle-Michélle on February 10, 2012, 10:30:40 PM
Stephe,

Read more: http://surmeno.blogspot.com/2006/07/three-estrogens-estradiol-estrone.html#ixzz1m2lxB4z8 (http://surmeno.blogspot.com/2006/07/three-estrogens-estradiol-estrone.html#ixzz1m2lxB4z8)

In fact this seems to confirm what I was going to say, that estradiol patches then must be ~ 100 - 200x stronger then oral estradiol ... see my earlier post for comparisons.

The cost though be pretty much the same as i.e. 28 days EstroFem costs the same as 28 days Estraderm of ~ same potency.

Axélle

Quote from: Stephe on February 10, 2012, 10:51:30 PM
I don't know if you followed any of my other posts, I have severe allergic reactions to estradiol. I'm happy for you that you can take estradiol, I don't have that luxury. I'm not an idiot, I've done a pile of research, tried about a dozen different forms of estradiol and feel lucky I found -some form- of estrogen I can finally tolerate. Please don't lecture me on these meds..

The only point of my post was saying for THE MEDS I TAKE, transdermal is said to be 10X as effective. I highly doubt transdermal meds of the same type are 100-200X stronger but then again I'm not a doctor.

Oh no dear!
If you feel lectured that was not my intention at all. In deed I added the link for yet further clarifications so it surely would support your specific issue. Did you read it at all?

I think it would add perspective - not lecturing... sorry if it came across that way.

Why 100 - 200x?
If estriol is 10x stronger then oral, and estradiol is ~ 10x stronger then estriol -> 10x10 = 100 assuming the oral is 1mg. If 2mg it be 200x or?

Sorry, just girlie maths... I also think this can't be, but so it would seem to be, um.

Axélle

Hi, I've been taking etrofem at 4 mg a day for 16 months. My hips went from 40" to 46" and my thighs went from 25"to 291/2". I gained 1" on my breasts. All my body hair fell off and turned to fine blond except for one small patch of hair on my chest. It is shrinking though! I take the pills sub lingual till its completely gone. Oh and my skin got really smooth too. I think its time to up the dosage! :laugh:

Cool, but edit the dosage info.

;)

  I take the estrodiol and provera pills sublingually.  The Spiro down the hatch.  The only problem was the changing of the dosage of the spiro by my provider to a quarter to what it was.  My T levels went from 57 to 147 when that happened with increased beard coarseness.  The spiro is back to half to what it was and things seem to stabilize here.  Your results may vary from what you read from others here on this thread. 
  Joelene

Quote from: Stephe on February 10, 2012, 10:51:30 PM
I don't know if you followed any of my other posts, I have severe allergic reactions to estradiol. I'm happy for you that you can take estradiol, I don't have that luxury. I'm not an idiot, I've done a pile of research, tried about a dozen different forms of estradiol and feel lucky I found -some form- of estrogen I can finally tolerate. Please don't lecture me on these meds..

The only point of my post was saying for THE MEDS I TAKE, transdermal is said to be 10X as effective. I highly doubt transdermal meds of the same type are 100-200X stronger but then again I'm not a doctor.

From what I have seen in this thread, Axelle was not trying to be your doctor, but rather giving a personal response to the subject matter of this thread. 

You were allergic? My God!!

I had no idea!

Quote from: Tori on February 11, 2012, 04:46:44 AM
From what I have seen in this thread, Axelle was not trying to be your doctor, but rather giving a personal response to the subject matter of this thread. 

You were allergic? My God!!

I had no idea!

She probably wasn't allergic to the estogen per-say otherwise she would have lupus, and a continual allergic reaction against her own bodies fat cells its more likely she was allergic to some kind of bulk agent used in the tablet (usually lactose)

I take injections but I have very little to compare it with. Overall the highs and lows aren't too bad emotionally you get used to it and it's just part of the flow. More irritatingly is the nausea and  aching breasts that follows the injection and generally feeling rubbish and unmotivated before taking the injection.

Quote from: pebbles on February 11, 2012, 07:13:11 AM
She probably wasn't allergic to the estogen per-say otherwise she would have lupus, and a continual allergic reaction against her own bodies fat cells its more likely she was allergic to some kind of bulk agent used in the tablet (usually lactose)

I take injections but I have very little to compare it with. Overall the highs and lows aren't too bad emotionally you get used to it and it's just part of the flow. More irritatingly is the nausea and  aching breasts that follows the injection and generally feeling rubbish and unmotivated before taking the injection.

Please don't tell me how my body reacted or what caused it. I highly doubt a DOZEN different forms of estradiol all have the same "bulk agent". I had massive migraine headaches, so severe I couldn't leave the house and after about 3 days felt like I needed to crawl out of my skin. Even VERY small dose transdermals did this same thing. Sorry if I'm not trans enough for some of you to sit in a dark closet crying so I can take estradiol..

Like I said, I'm glad you have minor side effects and can tolerate it, I can't.

Please, unless you are -MY- doctor don't tell me what is going on with my health.

That is horrible Stephe!

I can't begin to imagine the inner strength required to make it as far as you have.

   Sorry if I seem overly sensitive on this but I went through hell over this and yes I get upset when people try to "explain" or minimize what happened to me and why, when they have no clue. Don't assume how YOU react to any medication will apply to other people and vice versa.

Way too many people seem to enjoy playing internet doctor with other people's health.

You could seem overly sensitive because I highly doubt Pebbles intended to provoke the response she got from you. Pebbles has been through her own various Hells. I imagine she has things that trigger her emotions too.

But, Stephe... wow. I know how hard it has been to get to the point where I am. And I am Pre-HRT. A prescription would mean the world to me... and to have that fail? And fail? And fail?

Wow.

Many would have given up.

The strength of some of this community's members sometimes makes me feel like I have it easy. That is NOT something a dysphoric personality gets to feel every day.

Quote from: Tori on February 11, 2012, 09:06:34 PM
But, Stephe... wow. I know how hard it has been to get to the point where I am. And I am Pre-HRT. A prescription would mean the world to me... and to have that fail? And fail? And fail?

Wow.

Also I can't tolerate electrolysis. 3 different very TG experienced people tried and all said the same thing. Never seen anyone react like I did and they all agreed it would ruin my skin and deform my face if I continued. I'm lucky I don't have much if any beard shadow that shows but it still sucks to have to shave everyday. People who can tolerate this have no idea how lucky they seem to me. I;m sure they just take it for granted.

This isn't an easy hand any of us have been dealt and there is no cookie cutter path to where we want to be. When I see these lists of "You HAVE to do this first", all those do is set people up for disappointment if, for whatever reason, then can't check that item off. Many people take it for granted everyone can check off each item.

I cried all afternoon each time I failed at electrolysis but I realized that IT doesn't define me.

I spend months suffering with trying many different types and forms of estradiol, wait a couple of weeks, try another, fail, wait a few weeks to recover, try another and fail, rinse and repeat. This was very painful AND depressing. Not to mention the money I spent to end up with basically nothing.

I did learn that HRT doesn't define who I am either.

I guess this is why I was SOOOO excited to have found I can tolerate estriol (almost a year after starting HRT or trying to start) and don't need someone telling me I should be on blank because what I'm on is 10X less effective etc.

   I think injections and transdermals estrogen's are def the most effective method. Although a friend of mine is taking those estrogen pellet things and she is pleased with the results. From what i've read it's like a little pill shaped pellet that your doctor inserts under your skin which over time (depending on doseage anywhere from 3-6 months) slowly dissolves into your blood stream giving you a steady supply of E without the high and low levels from injections.

   I'm gonna ask my endo about switching me over from injections to pellets on my next appointment.  ;D

Thank you everyone for the input  ;D

I chose the shot just to get started for now, in fact it has been roughly 30 hours since I received my very first HRT therapy shot and will say that the major thing I noticed right away was the calmness I felt. Basically I have always been on edge, having to do something to keep my mind occupied; now I actually feel relaxed.

The shot regimen that my Endocrinologist has set up for me is once every 14 days (2 weeks) with a daily pill of Spiro~something... Again so far I feel fine and don't have a big fear of needles but I can respect those that do  :)

I checked the pricing for the under-the-skin tablets versus the shot and it's a no brainer if your on a tight budget; we talking $250 every three months versus $80

We all need to get where we are going and as long as it is safe then go for it!

Happy Valentines day everyone!

Breanne,
  Happy Valentines day!  Like my long-lost sister with her soft Texas drawl said to me, "You'll be in for a ride"!  I love her.
  Joelene

Quote from: Stephe on February 11, 2012, 09:40:49 PM
Also I can't tolerate electrolysis. 3 different very TG experienced people tried and all said the same thing. Never seen anyone react like I did and they all agreed it would ruin my skin and deform my face if I continued. I'm lucky I don't have much if any beard shadow that shows but it still sucks to have to shave everyday. People who can tolerate this have no idea how lucky they seem to me. I;m sure they just take it for granted.

This isn't an easy hand any of us have been dealt and there is no cookie cutter path to where we want to be. When I see these lists of "You HAVE to do this first", all those do is set people up for disappointment if, for whatever reason, then can't check that item off. Many people take it for granted everyone can check off each item.

I cried all afternoon each time I failed at electrolysis but I realized that IT doesn't define me.

I spend months suffering with trying many different types and forms of estradiol, wait a couple of weeks, try another, fail, wait a few weeks to recover, try another and fail, rinse and repeat. This was very painful AND depressing. Not to mention the money I spent to end up with basically nothing.

I did learn that HRT doesn't define who I am either.

I guess this is why I was SOOOO excited to have found I can tolerate estriol (almost a year after starting HRT or trying to start) and don't need someone telling me I should be on blank because what I'm on is 10X less effective etc.

i'm just curious, but is laser also a no?

Quote from: FullMoon19 on February 15, 2012, 02:56:18 PM
i'm just curious, but is laser also a no?

Getting some laser done but most of my facial hair is gray now. At least it doesn't show :P

And bad news on the estriol this week, broke out in hives in multiple places earlier this week and seems to be related to this med.. *screams*

Adolescence.

;)

Sweetheart, it will work out for you.

Quote from: Stephe on February 15, 2012, 11:42:59 PM
Getting some laser done but most of my facial hair is gray now. At least it doesn't show :P

And bad news on the estriol this week, broke out in hives in multiple places earlier this week and seems to be related to this med.. *screams*

you must have a very hypersensitive body. i'm just glad the way i am with meds. nothing i go on ever gives me the known negative side effects, it's just too bad my ocd meds don't do what i would like them to, so i guess life is all give and take.

Quote from: FullMoon19 on February 16, 2012, 02:12:35 AM
you must have a very hypersensitive body. i'm just glad the way i am with meds. nothing i go on ever gives me the known negative side effects, it's just too bad my ocd meds don't do what i would like them to, so i guess life is all give and take.

Yes and in the past I have had unknown side effects lol.

I sometimes have the opposite reaction to meds as well, pills that should make me drowsy make me stay up all night etc. I have a HORRIBLE time with antibiotics, one caused my liver to shut down and I almost died. Another made me CrAzY!!! I serious lost my mind, had no idea where I was. This last surgery they did it with zero antibiotics because of this. Lucky I very rarely get infections or if I do I can fight them off. Even epinephrine in novacaine sends me to the ER.

I'm about to just give up on ever being able to take E and look for any other "physical changes" made via surgery, like a BA.

Quote from: BreanneRose on February 08, 2012, 11:07:41 PM
Hello all, hugs :)

I have been out of this for awhile dealing with the X-wife, moving, and my therapist. All is getting better now since I received my HRT letter on Sunday and on Monday I had my Physical with my Endocrinologist. I was told that my options were either by-weekly shots, a pill, or a slow-release tablet placed under my skin that lasts about 3 months.

The doc said the injection would give me the quickest result, with the only bad part having the lows and highs.

I am curious what sort of testimonies or experiences or advise anyone may have.

Thanks again!

- Breanne :-*

Hands down I think shots are  best but I can't get them because they are illegal in the U.K. If anyone lives in the U.K and knows how I get legally get shots please let me know?

I've tried several forms of oestrogen pill over the last 14 years including premarin, ethinyestrodial and estrodial valorate, the latter seems to work the best for me.

I've also had the slow release tablet under the skin you mention which is an implant. The problem is the implant is suppose to dissolve after several months but mine hasn't and it's like a hard lump under the skin, so I wouldn't recommend that one. That has now also been withdrawn from the U.K.