Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I honestly think it is great that he got do famous and came out in DWTS. They have always had famous gay people come and dance on the show, and some of the dancers are gay too. It was nice to finally have the T included on there! And aside from that, he got to show the US that FTMs aren't freaks. We are normal people. I love that he made the US sort of aware that we exist. Sure we are all different. But still. It was nice to have that topic thrown out there. Since it is usually just lesbian/gay issues we hear on the news with the occasions trans attack which is horrible

I dislike Chaz Bono, Buck Angel, Ryan Casssata...and that's all I can think of right now. They all have said really messed up things be it misogyny, racism, classism, body shaming, sex shaming, cissexism, etc.

I completely agree with you Nick, couldn't have said it better.

Quote from: Nygeel on February 19, 2012, 12:09:47 PM
I dislike Chaz Bono, Buck Angel, Ryan Casssata...and that's all I can think of right now. They all have said really messed up things be it misogyny, racism, classism, body shaming, sex shaming, cissexism, etc.

Can you name some examples of things they have said??

Some people seem to dislike him simply because he is fat. Some people hold his lesbian past against him, although I don't see the logic of that. Some people complain that he seeks too much publicity, although I have mixed feelings about this myself. I don't know much about his lesbian activist stage, but he would have had a hard time transitioning quietly, so why not make the best of it? Some people pick apart his "female" characteristics and say he's not masculine enough. Maybe he isn't particularly masculine, but they can do this because they know he's trans and they have access to old footage of him.

And some people complain that he shouldn't try to speak for all trans men. I haven't seen enough of him to know whether he really does this. I do know that a couple of things that Bono said were quoted out of context, without his little disclaimer that he was speaking for himself. I don't remember the specific passages now, but some of it came from Letterman. Stuff like how HE looks at being trans, etc. And then he said one or two questionable things that had no appropriate context that I recall. But as I said, I'm not knowledgeable about all things Bono, and I don't want to be.

With all of that said, I don't think he comes across as particularly articulate, introspective, or enlightened. So, yeah, I'd rather have a few representatives other than Buck Angel and Chaz and even Lucas Silveira. But they will come in time, and I'm sure as heck not going to put MYself out there.

Before Chaz transitioned I loved him on celebrity fit club.  I never watched DWTS.  I haven't watched any of his interviews but from what I've heard from another guy he did he mentioned that Chaz said that "bottom surgery has bad results" but just to be fair I have seen online where he mentioned he wanted bottom surgery but here is the video of what this man was saying.  If you want to just cut to where he discusses Chaz go to 2:35-4:48

http://youtu.be/v-dJZOfkz2I (http://youtu.be/v-dJZOfkz2I)

Quote from: Nick on February 19, 2012, 12:47:10 PM
Can you name some examples of things they have said??

Here's some stuff on Chaz Bono: http://scar-lip.tumblr.com/post/10747421803/why-chaz-bono-is-a-misogynist-who-is-not-our (http://scar-lip.tumblr.com/post/10747421803/why-chaz-bono-is-a-misogynist-who-is-not-our)
Buck Angel: http://www.iradaltongray.com/post/14685486760/a-list-of-evidence-of-buckangel-putting-down (http://www.iradaltongray.com/post/14685486760/a-list-of-evidence-of-buckangel-putting-down)
Ryan Cassata (the keynote speaker at this year's Philly Trans Health Con): http://bism-ishazz.tumblr.com/post/17040165734/ryan-cassata-reeks-of-famous-on-purpose-here-is (http://bism-ishazz.tumblr.com/post/17040165734/ryan-cassata-reeks-of-famous-on-purpose-here-is)

No body's perfect. I think Chaz, Buck, and Ryan have a right to their own opinion and a right to do whatever the hell they want.

To be honest, I have quite a neutral opnion on Chaz, I do agree that it would have been extremely difficult to try and transition privately, being Cher's child, so it does seem like maybe he had to kind of take charge and do it publicly before it was brought out to be a public thing with little of his influence.

Buck Angel on the other hand, I do have a problem. Simply because I completely disagree with how he does porn.

Quote from: Jayr on February 19, 2012, 01:55:31 PM
No body's perfect. I think Chaz, Buck, and Ryan have a right to their own opinion and a right to do whatever the hell they want.

Sure, but they should also realize that people have been really hurt by what they've said. It would also be nice if they didn't claim their words aren't hurtful/blame those who are upset.

I don't think T has really changed his face that much. I still don't think he passes. Anytime I've heard anyone talk about him something was always said along the lines of "you can always tell." My mom asked me a few weeks ago if I was going to gain a bunch of weight like Chaz. I think it fuels FTMs are freaks and not really men. It doesn't bother me that most people don't realize FTMs exist.

I dislike him because when I image search "phalloplasty" his face comes up as often as man-made penises do. >:(

Nah actually I don't dislike him.

Quote from: Jayr on February 19, 2012, 01:55:31 PM
No body's perfect. I think Chaz, Buck, and Ryan have a right to their own opinion and a right to do whatever the hell they want.

Exactly. We all have a different transition experience and they happen to be out and open about it so whatever. it's their lives. as far as Chaz, I watched his special Becoming Chaz and just found him to be really rude and obnoxious, traits I don't admire in people regardless of gender/fame.

People are bitching about this quote "I think of it as hormones that, you know, went in the brain but not in the body, and that's all being transgender is. It's just that the sex of your body and the gender of the brain don't match up."

Do they not see he says "I think of it as"???? I also realize MY views about what transgender means isn't going to work for all other trans people, someone who is andro etc.

Personally I think we are lucky that people like him are will to go out into the world NOT STEALTH and show the world, yes we exist. Until you have done that yourself and have tried to make the world more accepting of transgendered people, U don't have any room to bitch.

Quote from: Stephe on February 19, 2012, 09:38:49 PM
Personally I think we are lucky that people like him are will to go out into the world NOT STEALTH and show the world, yes we exist. Until you have done that yourself and have tried to make the world more accepting of transgendered people, U don't have any room to bitch.

Um...I have been. I don't try to make people "more accepting" but I do try to make people "more educated." I talk to my state representatives and talk about transgender bills. My representatives might not know me by name, but they know I exist. I run trans positive and body positive blogs. I co-run a blog for and about queer people with disabilities (many of these people are trans).

I am critical of Chaz Bono because he's said a lot of things that bother people. One person mentioned talking down on surgery. Yea you can say "I don't want bottom surgery because the results are horrible" but you're really talking about your views of other people's bodies and surgeries that they want/need.

I like Chaz. I think he's an awesome guy and is doing wonderful things for the community. He def has respect in my book!

He has every right to his opinions. One thing I learned being trans is that it is impossible for trans to all agree on anything. People are going to hate people regardless how careful they phrase things...especially in the trans community where a misplaced syllable or verb will get you the evil trans finger.

The first time I ever heard of 'Chaz Bono' was when my dad - a while back - decided to use him as a reason why I should NOT transition.

I try to be neutral, but after the above first impression and so many 'Chaz-related' responses - ranging from "So you're like Bono?  :icon_blink:" to "Wait, you wanna be like HIM!?  :icon_blah:" - I can't see the guy as anything but annoying...

I guess it's a good thing that I don't really watch TV.  :-\

Quote from: Stephe on February 19, 2012, 09:38:49 PM
Personally I think we are lucky that people like him are will to go out into the world NOT STEALTH and show the world, yes we exist. Until you have done that yourself and have tried to make the world more accepting of transgendered people, U don't have any room to bitch.

Haha perfect, I second this.

Quote from: Annah on February 19, 2012, 09:51:07 PM
I like Chaz. I think he's an awesome guy and is doing wonderful things for the community. He def has respect in my book!

He has every right to his opinions. One thing I learned being trans is that it is impossible for trans to all agree on anything. People are going to hate people regardless how careful they phrase things...especially in the trans community where a misplaced syllable or verb will get you the evil trans finger.

I second this also.

The reason my dad accepted me being trans and somewhat understood it as being something we are born as, was because he saw Chaz Bono on tv. Without him, my dad wouldn't have accepted me like he did. So as much as people wanna hate, he basically made my life a tones easier so I respect him.

Quote from: Stephe on February 19, 2012, 09:38:49 PM
People are bitching about this quote "I think of it as hormones that, you know, went in the brain but not in the body, and that's all being transgender is. It's just that the sex of your body and the gender of the brain don't match up."

Do they not see he says "I think of it as"???? I also realize MY views about what transgender means isn't going to work for all other trans people, someone who is andro etc.

Personally I think we are lucky that people like him are will to go out into the world NOT STEALTH and show the world, yes we exist. Until you have done that yourself and have tried to make the world more accepting of transgendered people, U don't have any room to bitch.

Exactly. I wish people would calm down. Apart from the fact that he's just ONE person and it's HIS opinion, these are interviews. He is under constant scrutiny. He is bound to say something that is going to offend someone.

Quote from: Annah on February 19, 2012, 09:51:07 PM
I like Chaz. I think he's an awesome guy and is doing wonderful things for the community. He def has respect in my book!

He has every right to his opinions. One thing I learned being trans is that it is impossible for trans to all agree on anything. People are going to hate people regardless how careful they phrase things...especially in the trans community where a misplaced syllable or verb will get you the evil trans finger.

LOL I Know! I like that..."evil trans finger".  People are a tad over-sensitive. He had the...and excuse me for my language, to put himself out there like that and try to bring positivity to the trans community. Even if everyone didn't see it that way.

Quote from: James on February 19, 2012, 09:53:37 PM
The first time I ever heard of 'Chaz Bono' was when my dad - a while back - decided to use him as a reason why I should NOT transition.

I try to be neutral, but after the above first impression and so many 'Chaz-related' responses - ranging from "So you're like Bono?  :icon_blink:" to "Wait, you wanna be like HIM!?  :icon_blah:" - I can't see the guy as anything but annoying...

I guess it's a good thing that I don't really watch TV.  :-\

I understand what you're saying kinda. My mother, and this was years ago, asked me if I was like Chaz. (Back when I would have died denying being trans)
Chaz, for many people who aren't aware of the trans community is the only one they can really recall or associate with FTM's. That's no one's fault. In my opinion, at least he is there for peope to know! He has his faults like everyone else. But he is genuinely trying to do good with his fame.

evil trans finger!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi373.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo178%2FLarcerus%2Fcrab%2FEvil_smile_by_kattylovers90.jpg&hash=08e0440e75d3219b498de04c1c651713ca9b8b1d)

Quote from: Annah on February 19, 2012, 10:10:28 PM
evil trans finger!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi373.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo178%2FLarcerus%2Fcrab%2FEvil_smile_by_kattylovers90.jpg&hash=08e0440e75d3219b498de04c1c651713ca9b8b1d)

I bet you have been saving that picture for this precise moment...

I do know that my grandparents have learned a lot from guys that are on TV. I don't hate Chaz as a person, but a lot of what he says is just not representative of what I believe. And I am sure he's aware of people's criticisms of what he has said...I think he needs to own up to it and think about it.

Quote from: Caseyyy on February 19, 2012, 10:15:39 PM
I do know that my grandparents have learned a lot from guys that are on TV. I don't hate Chaz as a person, but a lot of what he says is just not representative of what I believe. And I am sure he's aware of people's criticisms of what he has said...I think he needs to own up to it and think about it.

Im sure there are things he said that others disagree. That doesn't mean he has to own up to it. I wouldn't apologize to something i truly believed in but someone else didn't

I like Stephen Ira. He's ticked off at the media for forcefully outing him, and criticizes the crap out of everybody.

Quote from: Nygeel on February 19, 2012, 10:19:36 PM
I like Stephen Ira. He's ticked off at the media for forcefully outing him, and criticizes the crap out of everybody.

Some rich loud mouthed kid who feels like he knows everything about life already. Yeah now there is a great spokesperson for the community lol

Give me a break, I've referred to myself as a ->-bleeped-<- from BEFORE this guy was born! Now he's gonna explain how we should stop using it because it's offensive? Here's a clue, as soon as you publicize that "calling us ->-bleeped-<- is offensive" what do you think haters are going to call you? I guess he skipped reading the briar rabbit story.

Quote from: Stephe on February 19, 2012, 10:45:45 PM
Some rich loud mouthed kid who feels like he knows everything about life already. Yeah now there is a great spokesperson for the community lol

Give me a break, I've referred to myself as a ->-bleeped-<- from BEFORE this guy was born! Now he's gonna explain how we should stop using it because it's offensive? Here's a clue, as soon as you publicize that "calling us ->-bleeped-<- is offensive" what do you think haters are going to call you? I guess he skipped reading the briar rabbit story.

That's a word for trans women to reclaim, and not trans men since it doesn't have a history with trans men.

I'm a ->-bleeped-<-, Jay's a ->-bleeped-<-.
We're all ->-bleeped-<-s.

Quote from: JoeyD on February 19, 2012, 10:58:00 PM
I'm a ->-bleeped-<-, Jay's a ->-bleeped-<-.
We're all ->-bleeped-<-s.

Wooh ->-bleeped-<- party!

*sorry I've been lurking this thread and that just made me lol too hard not to reply*

Quote from: Nygeel on February 19, 2012, 10:50:32 PM
That's a word for trans women to reclaim, and not trans men since it doesn't have a history with trans men.

I don't get This. What if the trans man does have a history with the word?

Nygeel, I agree with you about Chaz, Ryan Casseta, and Buck Angel. The three of them have said a lot of racist and misogynist stuff, among other things, and I really don't see them as the kind of people to look up to.

Quote from: Jayr on February 19, 2012, 01:55:31 PM
No body's perfect. I think Chaz, Buck, and Ryan have a right to their own opinion and a right to do whatever the hell they want.

Agreed. Everyone is different, just because someone is trans doesn't mean that they won't make mistakes and make comments that aren't okay. People are always going to be ignorant, always going to have opinions that they may not shift from. I just know that in the future there will be different 'faces' of the trans community, change is inevitable. I can understand why the repetitive question of "Oh, so you're like Chaz?" would be irritating, I think I've only had to answer it once or twice with a "no, not exactly", everyone is different, but as I said, there will always be people who just don't get it.

Quote from: Nygeel on February 19, 2012, 10:50:32 PM
That's a word for trans women to reclaim, and not trans men since it doesn't have a history with trans men.

Also, Nygeel, I'd have to disagree. I know plenty of transguys who have coped the word "->-bleeped-<-" in a derogatory sense, I have myself. Everyone experiences different 'smaller' things in terms of prejudice, I guess - and I use the word 'smaller' lightly, because I know that it is a much harsher comment for some transpeople than others.

I personally hate the term '->-bleeped-<-', and find it offensive because of the negative connotations and the thoughts it brings to peoples' minds. I will give a sound verbal beating to anyone who thinks it's okay to call me such; I am not a '->-bleeped-<-', I'm a man.

As to the actual topic, I get annoyed by Chaz because people bring him up as an example for all trans men, and I feel a little squicked by that. He as a person is someone I don't particularly like, just because of the way he acts and speaks, and I don't really want to be associated with that. That being said, he's doing a lot more for the community than some others, so I think that alone warrants a little respect. :)

I quite honestly think that a big part of the problem people have with him is that he's "visible".
Trans men have for a long time been able to slip under the proverbial radar.
When people say "transsexuals" they usually mean trans women, because trans men go unnoticed.
Chaz Bono's open and public transition has meant people are aware of the existence of trans men more than before.
This makes people uncomfortable because they don't want to be seen as "trans" because of the public reaction they fear and because of their own disliking of "trans" and what they themselves connect that to.

Some trans people are the most transphobic people I know.
In part I believe this is a form of self preservation (they feel that if they rag on trans people then people won't know they're trans themselves) but I think a bigger part of this is a form of self hatred (hating that they are trans, that they had to transition to be themselves, that society won't accept 'em, etc, etc, etc.)

Those things together I think are the primary reason why some trans guys dislike Chaz.
Honestly, they should dislike me too then, because I'm openly trans and publicly speak out as a trans man for trans rights, both legal and social.

Quote from: Nygeel on February 19, 2012, 10:19:36 PM
I like Stephen Ira. He's ticked off at the media for forcefully outing him, and criticizes the crap out of everybody.

Woah, just went and looked him up; awesome! Thanks dude. :)

Quote from: Stephe on February 19, 2012, 10:45:45 PM
Some rich loud mouthed kid who feels like he knows everything about life already. Yeah now there is a great spokesperson for the community lol

I don't understand what your problem with him is? He's very well spoken and puts forward his opinions in a thoughtful and respectful way, and being young doesn't in any way invalidate his opinions or beliefs.

He also got himself a job going door to door in order to support his transition, so clearly he's not as much of a 'rich loud mouthed kid' as you claim. I think you might have a case of YDIW...

Quote from: Miniar on February 20, 2012, 07:07:10 AM
I quite honestly think that a big part of the problem people have with him is that he's "visible".
Trans men have for a long time been able to slip under the proverbial radar.
When people say "transsexuals" they usually mean trans women, because trans men go unnoticed.
Chaz Bono's open and public transition has meant people are aware of the existence of trans men more than before.
This makes people uncomfortable because they don't want to be seen as "trans" because of the public reaction they fear and because of their own disliking of "trans" and what they themselves connect that to.

Some trans people are the most transphobic people I know.
In part I believe this is a form of self preservation (they feel that if they rag on trans people then people won't know they're trans themselves) but I think a bigger part of this is a form of self hatred (hating that they are trans, that they had to transition to be themselves, that society won't accept 'em, etc, etc, etc.)

Those things together I think are the primary reason why some trans guys dislike Chaz.
Honestly, they should dislike me too then, because I'm openly trans and publicly speak out as a trans man for trans rights, both legal and social.

Quoted for truth

Quote from: conformer on February 19, 2012, 11:18:09 PM
Wooh ->-bleeped-<- party!

*sorry I've been lurking this thread and that just made me lol too hard not to reply*

No one can deny it c:

On the use of the word ->-bleeped-<-, you guys have any idea WHY people use slurs in the first place? Because -you- have GIVEN them a tool to attack you with. Getting mad or ashamed or whatever is telling them "Yes you found my button". All this guy has done is told bigots "If you want to piss off a transgendered person, here is what you do...." *sigh* Other groups have made the mistake of saying "it's OK for us to us it but no one else can". That just empowers the slur even more. I've had people call me "A cracker" and I just laughed :P At least in my case I'm not going to care, it will be a "Yes I'm a ->-bleeped-<- and??" moment.

Are any of these people a great role model? Of course not and I clearly think some of Chaz's comments about women are absurd. But these are also how HE feels not a "I am the spokesperson for all transpeople worldwide." I highly doubt the children on any movie star is someone we should look up to as a role model, but they are going to get a lot of media exposure.

And yes I'm proud to be at the ->-bleeped-<- party too :P

Yeah, no one isn't the perfect role model.
So it's dumb to get so offended.
Calm your ->-bleeped-<-tits down.

Me, I'm an offensive prick. That's a fact.
I used the N word at Walmart when there was a bunch of black people around me, mom got mad at me, but no f***s were given. (I'm not racist at all btw, I just say whatever I want haha.)
Now go make a tumblr post about how I'm such a terrible person.

Quote from: Stephe on February 20, 2012, 12:51:23 PM
. All this guy has done is told bigots "If you want to piss off a transgendered person, here is what you do...."

Honestly, anything seen or unseen in this world, physical or transitory, will piss off a transgender person. It's inevitable.

Three things are certain in this life: Death, Taxes, and Offending a transgender.

Quote from: Annah on February 20, 2012, 01:07:35 PM
Honestly, anything seen or unseen in this world, physical or transitory, will piss off a transgender person. It's inevitable.

Three things are certain in this life: Death, Taxes, and Offending a transgender.

LOL No kidding. I'm seeing this more and more. Everyone is so easily offended.

Quote from: Stephe on February 20, 2012, 12:51:23 PM
On the use of the word ->-bleeped-<-, you guys have any idea WHY people use slurs in the first place? Because -you- have GIVEN them a tool to attack you with. Getting mad or ashamed or whatever is telling them "Yes you found my button". All this guy has done is told bigots "If you want to piss off a transgendered person, here is what you do...." *sigh* Other groups have made the mistake of saying "it's OK for us to us it but no one else can". That just empowers the slur even more. I've had people call me "A cracker" and I just laughed :P At least in my case I'm not going to care, it will be a "Yes I'm a ->-bleeped-<- and??" moment.

Are any of these people a great role model? Of course not and I clearly think some of Chaz's comments about women are absurd. But these are also how HE feels not a "I am the spokesperson for all transpeople worldwide." I highly doubt the children on any movie star is someone we should look up to as a role model, but they are going to get a lot of media exposure.

And yes I'm proud to be at the ->-bleeped-<- party too :P

I love what you girls have to say honestly. MTF's should be in the FTM section more often. So many of us are on sites like this because we want to learn more so we can understand OURSELVES better and be happier with who we are. But then when we get hold of this information, we as a community get pissy when others, who have nothing to do with the LGBT community know nothing about being "gender queer" or things like that. It isn't a part of their life so they aren't trying to go out and understand it. And unless someone takes a stand and tries to educate others on all these things, we shouldn't get offended when someone says something. Especially if it's just their opinion. I myself never knew there was a gender queer community or even trans people who didn't want certain surgeries. I'm probably gonna say something that offends someone at one point. That doesn't mean I'm an insensitive a-hole. It just means I said something without thinking about it OR it is my opinion.

Quote from: Nygeel on February 19, 2012, 12:09:47 PM
I dislike Chaz Bono, Buck Angel, Ryan Casssata...and that's all I can think of right now. They all have said really messed up things be it misogyny, racism, classism, body shaming, sex shaming, cissexism, etc.

I agree with you Nygeel (about Chaz anyway, I'm not familiar with anything the other 2 have said).

There are few things I dislike more than misogyny.  One of them is misogyny coming from a trans man.

And for people saying he has the right to his own opinion, of course he does, and others have the right to disagree with him and criticize those opinions.  Think about people who hold racist, sexist, homophobic, etc ideas... should we give them all a pass because it's their opinion?

Some rich loud mouthed kid who feels like he knows everything about life already. Yeah now there is a great spokesperson for the community lol

Are you talking about Stephen Ira or Chaz?

Quote from: Annah on February 20, 2012, 01:07:35 PM
Honestly, anything seen or unseen in this world, physical or transitory, will piss off a transgender person. It's inevitable.

Three things are certain in this life: Death, Taxes, and Offending a transgender.

LOL!! Love it :P

Quote from: Nygeel on February 19, 2012, 01:35:38 PM
Here's some stuff on Chaz Bono: http://scar-lip.tumblr.com/post/10747421803/why-chaz-bono-is-a-misogynist-who-is-not-our (http://scar-lip.tumblr.com/post/10747421803/why-chaz-bono-is-a-misogynist-who-is-not-our)

Chaz is basically saying the same things that this forum is flooded with. I don't think what he is saying differs from the experiences that we collectively speak about.

anyone in the public eye putting forward opinions and beliefs about a marginalised group is going to come under intense scrutiny.  someone putting themselves in that position is going to have every little thing they say picked apart by the people they represent, because they're basically used as a measuring stick for everyone else under that umbrella, which makes us pretty uncomfortable- we can't choose to separate ourselves from things they say, because the rest of society will use that image to form their own ideas about what it is to be, in this case, a transman.  i think it has to be pretty difficult to be in that position, especially given that chaz has almost been forced into the spotlight from childhood, which isn't a realistic platform from which to form a relationship with the general transgender community or even society at large.  i can't imagine how you relate to everyone when you're in the public eye from such a young age.  i think anyone who grows up in that atmosphere will have pretty obtuse ideals. 

i neither like nor dislike him- i don't know him personally, and it's hard to comment on someone as a person when all you have are bits and pieces from a media perspective.  i feel somewhat sympathetic towards any celebrity trans person... it's awkward enough having to deal with it in private.  i've seen some really really nasty comments about him on youtube.  no, i'm not particularly comfortable with him being considered the face of our community, but unless i put myself out there and start being vocal enough to try to adjust that current image, in the knowledge that anyone who doesn't like how i think is gonna rip whatever i say to shreds, i don't feel like it's fair of me to dislike him based on those grounds. 

Quote from: schism on February 21, 2012, 05:10:19 AMi neither like nor dislike him- i don't know him personally, and it's hard to comment on someone as a person when all you have are bits and pieces from a media perspective.  i feel somewhat sympathetic towards any celebrity trans person... it's awkward enough having to deal with it in private.  i've seen some really really nasty comments about him on youtube.  no, i'm not particularly comfortable with him being considered the face of our community, but unless i put myself out there and start being vocal enough to try to adjust that current image, in the knowledge that anyone who doesn't like how i think is gonna rip whatever i say to shreds, i don't feel like it's fair of me to dislike him based on those grounds.

Agreed. People cry and moan about how Chaz said this or that, but the truth is, he's in a difficult position. A position that most here (if not all) have not or will never experience. Like Schism, I can't hate the man based on some media bites. I know I couldn't do what he's doing. Could you?

I have seen a lot of new trans people (ie newly coming out and taking steps toward transition) say a lot of things that they later change their minds about.  It is a process.  People new to the idea of transitioning and coming out are still figuring things out.  I started transition 4 years ago.  I'm sure if you go back and find my early posts i said a lot of things I no longer think are true.  In fact, I also said I'd never get lower surgery.  And I'm sure I said not-so-nice things about the results (like, if that's all I get, why bother?).  Yet now I am 1.5 years post op and thrilled beyond belief at my results.  Someone else might look at my junk and go eewww gross!

I cut Chaz a lot of slack.  Some of the things he said early in the process that are forever captured on video, he may have changed his mind about.  Like genital surgery.  He now wants it.

Life is a process. Transition is a process.  We all learn and grow and change.  We've all said things we later regretted.  Or said something that came out wrong and wasn't what we meant.  Yet we aren't being followed around by the media and having our words plastered over the internet.  Yes, Chaz sought out the media.  In his case I see how he may have wanted to be in control of his information and getting it out there his own way, rather than the rumor mill digging up his private life.  As the child of a celebrity I doubt he could have transitioned in private.  Heck, all of us transition publickly and have no control over who knows what once you come out.

And after spending time on trans forums I see a lot of trans people DO get offended over the most trivial things.  Not so much here but in other forums.  Frankly I'm over it.

Jay

Quote from: Jayr on February 19, 2012, 01:55:31 PM
No body's perfect. I think Chaz, Buck, and Ryan have a right to their own opinion and a right to do whatever the hell they want.

Of course they have that right.  We all do.  But why do people say things like this and act like someone else exercising that right by disagreeing is somehow infringing on the first person's ability to have an opinion?  It's a two-way street.

Secondly, while you have a right to an opinion, not all opinions are right.   When you express one that is harmful or hurtful to another person, you enter that territory.   The only reason people are so hell bent on defending everyone's ability to spout whatever hurtful opinions someone else might have is because they do not want to look in their own backyard.  Damn right, no one's perfect.  We all mess up.  How about an adult response of "What I said was hurtful/harmful?  I'm sorry, let's discuss why that happened" instead of "IT'S JUST MY OPINION I HAVE THE RIGHT LALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU"

As for Chaz, I do like him.  I'm glad he's out there fighting the good fight in the ways he is.  There are times when I feel like I should be writing him a thank you note just for the visibility to trans men in the last couple years!  But he's said some sexist stuff, and he should be called out on it that.  It doesn't mean he's a bad person or that everything about him is worthless.  It just means he messed up.  How else do you guys think we can fix this stuff?

oh and ps, when Buck Angel uses the same language that transphobes use to demoralize and degrade us "I am teaching people to love their bodies not mutilate them" we are just supposed to let that slide?  Because it's his opinion?

You really think that opinion about real people's bodies is okay?

Quote from: Twin Hammer Tommy on February 21, 2012, 05:03:02 PM
oh and ps, when Buck Angel uses the same language that transphobes use to demoralize and degrade us "I am teaching people to love their bodies not mutilate them" we are just supposed to let that slide?  Because it's his opinion?

You really think that opinion about real people's bodies is okay?

+1