Susan's Place Transgender Resources

A couple other threads on here have me thinking and I'd really just like to come out and ask if there's anyone else out there who basically lives "stealth" as "female" ... and might not even have intentions of transitioning, taking hormones or having surgery but still consider themselves male.

I know a lot of people lament the fact they're currently forced to live as female because they can't transition for whatever reason. But what about if you're just choosing not to transition now (or possibly even in the future)?

I'm guessing I probably won't get many responses here on that specific question.

Nevertheless, if anyone who's currently living "stealth" as "female" and would like to share their feelings, their trials and tribulations, etc, feel free. What do you find the hardest part to be about having to live in society as female? What about appearances ... do you still look more female than male? Dress male or female? Does having to "play the part" ever wear you down? Do other females trip you out in any way because they think you're "one of them"?

Just curious.

I am living stealth for now. I am attending a university where I do think I won't get too much crap. But for now, I started off the semester with my birth name in classes and large breasts. I don't want to rock the boat. Especially since I didn't have a binder or anything. Now I got a binder and what not.
Lately I have been sort of getting close to not using my birth name with things. Like I was at starbucks and she asked me my name and I kinda hesitated but ended up using my birth name. And I had a class where we had to take a survey and put our gender. But the girl was collecting the survey one by one so I put female because I panicked that she would look at it or know that it was me who put "male".
Family and fiancee know I am trans. But everyone else knows me as a female. It really sucks but soon enough, I won't be presenting female.
I look male and people definitely look at me and have to do a double take because I have breasts but I don't look female. It just sucks badly. Feeling how I do and then having the world see me another way. I don't own anything female with the exception ofa bra. I don't act like a woman. I sound like a woman because my voice just isn't that deep. But people probably automatically assume I am a lesbian. At this point, it does suck but I just don't care. It is what it is!

I am stealth. I have asked all my professors to use my chosen name, rather than my birth name and to use the proper pronouns. I have told them that I have started HRT, and that is why I have a deep voice, and look masculine as opposed to my very feminine birth name. All of them have been accepting and wonderful with the appropriate pronouns, even a professor that I have had since Freshman year and also my advisor who had only ever known me by my birth name. He has continued using proper pronouns and my name. None of my classmates and peers are the wiser, and the ones that knew me before HRT I have informed and have been using proper pronouns as well.

I will continue to be stealth. I wear a binder every day, and once I can afford top surgery I will do that stealth as well. I will get it done during a long break, and come back as if nothing ever happened. Same with my legal name change, driver's license, etc.

However, when I go out drinking with people that I don't know well .. it gets awkward. I have to make sure to show my ID without them being able to see it, since it is still another name and I have long hair in the picture.

I'm definitely not living stealth, and I do dress male,
When I'm called a girl now, it's usually only by people who knew me before I began to transition.
But when I first started transition, I suppose that I was pretty stealth about it,
I didn't say anything to anyone, and I absolutely hated it.

isnt that just not out, not stealth. im out but not stealth as i like in my home town.

Absolutely not.
I honestly couldn't. I get pissed as it is right now if I'm misgendered, if I had to go back to spending every waking minute loathing everything about myself, I'd either finish myself off or go on a killing rampage and commit an elaborate suicide-by-cop kind of thing.

I tried, I'll say for the first 20 years of my life maybe, but I failed. And pretty much after I graduated college, that was it. Before I had a binder, I rarely left the house, and never during the day. I practically turned into a goddam vampire, and I spent all my time and effort on either destroying myself or everything else around me. And when I finally did get that first binder, I still didn't want to go out. And eventually I crawled my way back towards having some semblance of a life again, which has its ups and downs. I'm back at square one on the social department right now, avoiding going out as much as possible, but hell if I know why. Things have been strange for me lately.

The previous 2 years at school I was like that. I was living a dual life . . in school I was "stealth" according to your definition and at home I was stealth as in living as male and no one knows about me being trans.

It was HELL. Not only did I get a lot of ->-bleeped-<- because I looked completely male, but used the female bathroom and went by female pronouns and stuff, but it also have a huge emotional impact on me. It was literally killing me going by female pronouns and my birth name.

So happy I don't have to do that anymore.

I live a stealth life.  Hell I'm so stealth I still wear female underwear.  I have boxers but I like the tightness of the underwear because it makes me feel like I have bulge.  I do have some female jeans I wear but they definately aren't stylish.  I mostly find myself wearing gender-neutral clothes though.
I think one of the hardest things for me right now living in steal is my interactions with cismales.  I always feel inferior to them when they open the door for me.  I can tell the difference if they are opening the door because I appear woman or if they are just being nice and would do that for anyone.  When it's the first one it makes me feel down but I still mangage to say thank you in the smallest meekrat voice..  There are other times where I feel kind of looked down upon by them.

Another thing is family.  My dad and sister knows I'm trans and I'm sure my mom has a clue along with my other sister but sometimes I feel they go out of their way to address me as female.  "You are an intelligent young lady."  "You ain't no boy stop spitting like one."  "Stop whistling young ladies aren't supposed to do that."  "You are a girl." "You are my sister." and the list goes on.  I find myself getting depressed over that because I'm stuck and there's not a damn thing that I can do about it right now.

As far as appearance goes I usually look more female than male because I wear ponytails (which is why I have my Ushanka on a lot) but right now I have in braids so I look a bit more masculine and I will try to wear braids more often in the future hopefully. I'm a fairly ugly fat person so I don't care for my appearance much.  It doesn't look like I try to be female.  It just happens with the help of my giant breasts and hips.

Do I feel like I'm putting on a show?  Yes in a way.  I'm a pretty shy and reserved person so I don't break my neck trying to meet new people or to talk to them and I don't go out of my way to have them confirm their beleifs that I appear female so I must be female.

Do other females trip you out in any way because they think you're "one of them"?  I'm not so sure if they would think that.  I'm guessing I would be cast out as an oddball so I wouldn't hang around many to find out but then again my interactions with people are very limited at the moment so for future refences I will just put yes.


I have my heart set out to transition (hormone wise) and probably the only ways I chose not to is because of the T having increased chances of me having heart diseases, high blood pressure, and type 2 diabetes which combined with my weight and genetics I'm probably 1 cheeseburger away from having.  That and the cost would be my biggest factors but hey my motto is "be a man or die trying" so I'll probably ignore all those other factors anyway.   :D

I am living stealth.I told some people I would like to transition before but I haven't mentioned that for a while and nobody asks me about that anymore.I still have my long hair although I'm thinking of cutting it off.When I'm alone in the bathroom it's different story.I shave,sometimes were male boxers and bind.I have some male clothes that I were in public and also male parfume.But I am living as female all the time.The problem is I want to dress in male's lockeroom on gym.I didn't mention it to anyone in school,because I'm scared what the reaction will be.I am in somewhat confusing situation and not quite sure what are my plans for the future about all this.

I am stealth right now but dressing more male than female. Female pronouns are starting to bother me. I'm really just waiting to begin t to I guess slowly get away from being stealth. Although, my 'plan' is to remain stealth til I see/feel changes from t and then make changes with the flow of that. But living this way is definitely hard, messes with my head. I am out to family and I dont think they quite understand everything. So they still call me by my name, she, everything that I'm not. I dont let it bother me too much since I accepted that it'll take some time for them to understand. My main concern right now is how to begin moving away from being stealth. I go to college, not big, same people I started with will graduate with me, so we mostly know one another. I graduate in about 6/7 months In that case, I dont know whether I should continue to stay stealth or move forward. I really want to move forward though. So any suggestions as far as how to slowly move away from being stealth? Give it a go.

Quote from: Malachite on March 01, 2012, 03:15:20 PM
I can tell the difference if they are opening the door because I appear woman or if they are just being nice and would do that for anyone.

Off topic, but found this interesting. How can you tell?

Also, I'm not sure everybody's clear on the topic - this is about living stealth as 'female' not after transition, correct?

Quote from: Forum Admin on March 01, 2012, 05:38:10 PM
Also, I'm not sure everybody's clear on the topic - this is about living stealth as 'female' not after transition, correct?

I think they mean people who choose not to transition and then, I guess, "pretend" not to be trans-- like they just live their lives as female and don't let anyone know they're really male inside.  That's what I got from it, anyway.

Quote from: Forum Admin on March 01, 2012, 05:38:10 PM
Off topic, but found this interesting. How can you tell?

Also, I'm not sure everybody's clear on the topic - this is about living stealth as 'female' not after transition, correct?

I think he wants the opinions of those who are still living as female who may not transition but since that would be rare to find then the lives of any ftm who who still presents as female would count.

From my experience it's the angle of how they old the door open and how much effort is put into it like they will open it enough for me to get a grip of it and then continue walking to let me get the rest and it's a chain.  I will do that for the next person.  If they open the door wide open and just wait for me to walk through then I'm guessing they are acting like a gentleman along with kind of rushing to the door to open it.

Yes, living "stealth" as female.

There are definitely some situations where being treated female makes me feel ... I don't really know how to put it. I kind of think to myself, "oh if you only knew" in those situations. There's been a few rare occasions where I've had to deal with a really chauvinistic male - like the type who talks down to all women or thinks he's better because he is male. Those types of dudes make me want to rip them apart, not just for dealing with me that way but for dealing with others that way too. I've had plenty of women deal with me as "the oddball". It's like they can sense something is off but not exactly what. Most probably think "lesbian" I would imagine. Most family members always dealt with me on the level of "tom boy", then after a certain age my mom really started laying on the "you're a lady, deal with it" kind of attitude. My mom only ever accepted the facts about me in a marginal way - when it was easy to explain away to others (hence the "tom boy" thing). So after a certain point and certainly into adulthood she tried her best to push me into the female role. I have no brothers or sisters so I was the only focus of attention. My dad has always been mellow about it. I think he understands more than anyone else about certain things.

In college is when my "dual" life really started though - because I was away from my parents and in a place where no one really knew me. Yeah I've always used my birth name, so even teachers would call me that, but outside of any situation where I had to show my ID I would be myself. I got into a number of sticky situations leading the dual life. So I didn't go about that the best way at that time.

I guess because I'm well past college and I don't have a typical job, that I'm able to circumvent a lot of situations that would tend to annoy and complicate things. That may be one thing that's helped me find my own way around things. Other than that I've just come to the realization that I can "be myself" in almost any situation. I don't have to "act female" because I'm not and maybe sometime that will get me some strange looks but I can't change what other people think. I had to totally change my perspective on things to even be able to move forward in my own life though. I think most everyone in life has to "play roles" at points. So if I have to give my birth name out or show my ID or whatever, that's one of those roles. It doesn't define me though. Most people have a role they play at their job, or they play the role of parent or caregiver or any other number of roles. It doesn't change who you are.

I do. But I dress in entirely male clothing, wear a binder, have short hair, and make 'jokes' about being a boy. I work in an elementary school and do not want to lose my job. I KNOW I am transgender, now I'm just trying to figure out what is the least amount of transitioning I can do whilst achieving happiness. I'm just scared basically. But living this way kills me sometimes.

I currently do, though only for a few more months hopefully. I am planning to get on hormones and such but until that time and until I move I have no choice. My husband is pretty well known in our community and works with high school students looking at going to our university. Since his job is so public, and people know that he was married to a woman (not to mention I had to attend things under the title of wife) we just decided to keep it quiet until after the move. Even if I get on hormones before the move, it won't be for more than a few months, so I doubt I will pass much better than I do anyway.

It is rough though, as at home is the only time I get gendered correctly or called by my chosen name. Its gotten to the point where when people use my birth name, I tend not to hear them, since I don't claim that name as my own.

I am pretty sure everyone is confusing stealth to not out. Stealth, from every other definition that I have came across, is when someone is transitioning - already out to those that knew them before(family, friends, etc) - and feels the need to NEVER out themselves again throughout their transition. They live completely as the gender that they identify with, and are stealth with the fact that they were not born into the sex that reciprocates their gender by anatomical concerns.

I am out. I am seen as male by everyone around me, and am stealth. I do not tell anyone that I am transgender, unless the situation arises where I must. Once my name is legally changed, there will be no problem with me remaining stealth in social environments.

I know stealth is "lingo" for any trans person that either is going through or has already completed "transition". But the term itself can certainly be applied to any situation where you have information about yourself that you're not willing to give.

My situation is not so different in just the fact that I don't want anyone (except those few people I choose to know) to be privy to the information that the person I really am is not necessarily what people "see" all the time on the outside. Same type of thing as when someone transitions to their preferred gender and they do not want general society ever knowing they were born differently.

It seems like a number of people who are still having to live as "female" actually have told people close to them they're trans. Being "out" has many different levels too.

@Ayden - if you don't mind me asking, is your husband sticking with you? How's he taking it? I'm actually married as well (yes, to a dude).

Lots of us live closeted lives before we come out to other people, and we do it even after we've come out to those who are close to us. I'm not sure if those situations really fit what you're asking. For a long time, the only one who knew I identified as male was my then-partner. I thought of myself as a cross dresser because I didn't want to be a transsexual. When I started seeing myself as transgender, I sometimes identified myself as a cross dresser rather than trans.

I had different modes. In my head, I lived other lives as a boy. In the real world, I had short hair and wore men's clothing but just looked like a masculine girl for a long time. Every once in a while, I would spook someone in the women's restroom, but it didn't become a problem till I was actively identifying as transgender. Once I realized that there were real people out there like me--not just obscure case studies in some book--I guess that made a big difference. And I now knew that I wasn't crazy. I started to let myself get more comfortable with my masculinity, and that's when people started hassling me.

This went on for years, and then I was less and less able to deal with being trans. In grad school, I went back in the closet. That was definitely some kind of stealth mode, but I can't call it active stealth. I didn't tell myself, "I'm a man, but I'm going to live as a woman." Rather, I tried to blot out all the transness and deny that it existed. I had been getting to close to the truth for a long time, and when I was on the verge of seeing it, I recloseted myself. Whenever I did do some self-reflection, I still thought of myself as a woman who wanted to be a man, or as a masculine woman. Anything but the truth. I couldn't take steps to transition until something inside me snapped and I realized that I really was a gay man, not a woman who wanted to be a gay man.

So, I came out to myself in 1988. I lived varying degrees of "stealth as a woman" until 2008. If you're looking for a great way to mess yourself up, I definitely recommend my route.

But I always wanted to transition, and I planned to do it...someday.

When I first transitioned, I thought I wanted to live stealth. But I didn't. And I don't.

I am very open (not loud and all) but I mean like, if people ask or something, yeah, I'ma tell em. I'm president of Allies LGBTQ at my college...and the majority of people know. I've had issues and I am afraid of the danger and I've been in some problems and ->-bleeped-<-ed up situations, but overall, it feels amazing. Since I'm pre-everything, it feels better and less like I'm hiding or supressing myself. Even after surgery and T, I probably won't live stealth because I've had alot to offer others. Especially on my campus, I've educated so many and also helped other transguys.

Quote from: insideontheoutside on March 02, 2012, 09:29:14 PM
@Ayden - if you don't mind me asking, is your husband sticking with you? How's he taking it? I'm actually married as well (yes, to a dude).

Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I haven't check back for a bit. Of course I don't mind you asking, I tend to be pretty open about a lot of things.

Yes, Joe is very supportive. It is hard to even put into words just how supportive and wonderful he has been. He actually knew years ago when I went through my first attempt to live as a male. He was sad when I flipped out and ran back into the female role, but I think it was for the best that I eased myself into it slowly and he understood that. He finally sat me down and told me that I didn't need to be so worried about hiding myself. He's told some of his family and friends. He had a bit of period where he was concerned about how other people would view us, but it was mostly because of his job and due to the fact that we can't even go to the store without running into his co-workers and students.

He leaves in two weeks to start his new job, and by the time I get there, it will be the end of May of beginning of June. He told me that I could choose how I wanted to be addressed and how open I wanted to be. He even asked how I would like him to introduce me. His new boss knows that he is married and knows me under my female name, but Joe said it was not an issue and he wouldn't let it be one. The only thing that bothers him is that he won't be here to help me through my last few months of thesis semester and potentially for my first T shot. When we move, he has said that we are just another gay couple.

I was really worried about how he would handle it. I can honestly say he surprised me, in a very good way. I think my current "stealth" mode bothers him more than me sometimes. He has a hard time switching names and pronouns to match the female mode, which has earned him some funny looks. The last time I put on a bra he was really confused before he had the 'oh, right' moment. So, he sees me as being male. Whenever I wear women's clothing he says it's cross-dressing. Our relationship has also taken a huge turn for the better since I came (and stayed) out. We are both happier than we have been in a long time. There is no more pretending that our relationship is something is isn't. I lucked out with him, that's for sure. He's a good man, and very loving.

wait wah im confused stealth means living as female or male? anywho im living fully as a girl right now. i hate a lot of it. im irregular so one time red tide will be light and another it will be well. not light and i'll get cramps so bad it feels like i got punched in the stomach (im not saying im special or anything, i know everyone born female goes through this). socially theres pressure on me to marry and have kids (something i am sure right now i DONT want my dog is probably the closest thing i will ever come to as kids). then again if i transition i might freeze my eggs and whatnot. wow getting off topic so ya anyway :P my dad expects me to wear jackets and boots and makeup and pink frilly tops and wear my hair down and it can get really hard on me mentally. this is something me and my sister constantly argue about actually, she's always in my face about how i dont fit in and how i should wear more makeup and all that. yep.

Stealth, within the trans community, means that you live as your chosen gender with few or no people knowing about your trans status/history.  But in the context of this thread, the OP is using stealth to be living in your born sex of female, with few or no people knowing you are trans/gender non-conforming.

Freezing eggs is a lot harder than freezing sperm because the eggs don't thaw well.

I do indeed have a stealth life, but it's out of necessity at this point, although I do plan to transition slowly; toes in the water, testing out how it feels before progressing further and all that.
I basically have to put a female personality front when I'm around my family, especially the family on my mother's side, since they are very religious, and look down on anything that isn't straight. I feel bad a lot of the time, since my aunts like to buy me nice female clothing, and I have to pretty much fake being happy since I know I'll probably never wear them. Plus I can't even count the times I've had to come up with weird excuses as to why I don't wear make-up. It's like I have two personalities, and the female personality is very uncomfortable for me because it's like suppressing how I really want to act.
I feel most natural on the internet or with my friends, since I'm allowed to act how I want without consequences.
It's hard to put up a female front all the time though, but I think my parents just believe I'm a tomboy right now so it's alright.
I think the hardest part is trying spend time with one particular aunt, since I spent a lot of time around her when I was a kid, and she liked to treat me like a little princess. Now she still tries to do that by offering me a large variety of make-up (she works for Mary Kay), inviting me to go shopping with her or calling me to ask if I want her to buy me any clothes or jewelry. It makes me feel the worse to keep making excuses or disappointing her, but I try my best to fake it for her sake.
Depressing stuff, man.

Quote from: Ayden on March 03, 2012, 03:41:23 PM
Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I haven't check back for a bit. Of course I don't mind you asking, I tend to be pretty open about a lot of things.

Yes, Joe is very supportive. It is hard to even put into words just how supportive and wonderful he has been. He actually knew years ago when I went through my first attempt to live as a male. He was sad when I flipped out and ran back into the female role, but I think it was for the best that I eased myself into it slowly and he understood that. He finally sat me down and told me that I didn't need to be so worried about hiding myself. He's told some of his family and friends. He had a bit of period where he was concerned about how other people would view us, but it was mostly because of his job and due to the fact that we can't even go to the store without running into his co-workers and students.

He leaves in two weeks to start his new job, and by the time I get there, it will be the end of May of beginning of June. He told me that I could choose how I wanted to be addressed and how open I wanted to be. He even asked how I would like him to introduce me. His new boss knows that he is married and knows me under my female name, but Joe said it was not an issue and he wouldn't let it be one. The only thing that bothers him is that he won't be here to help me through my last few months of thesis semester and potentially for my first T shot. When we move, he has said that we are just another gay couple.

I was really worried about how he would handle it. I can honestly say he surprised me, in a very good way. I think my current "stealth" mode bothers him more than me sometimes. He has a hard time switching names and pronouns to match the female mode, which has earned him some funny looks. The last time I put on a bra he was really confused before he had the 'oh, right' moment. So, he sees me as being male. Whenever I wear women's clothing he says it's cross-dressing. Our relationship has also taken a huge turn for the better since I came (and stayed) out. We are both happier than we have been in a long time. There is no more pretending that our relationship is something is isn't. I lucked out with him, that's for sure. He's a good man, and very loving.

That's really awesome. My other half is pretty supportive of my choices as well.

Quote from: Malachite on March 01, 2012, 03:15:20 PM
I think one of the hardest things for me right now living in steal is my interactions with cismales.  I always feel inferior to them when they open the door for me.

OH GOD I can definitely relate to that. Not only with just the door-thing, but in general I feel super self-conscious around cis guys. Like I could never measure up to them, like I'm in a competition I can never win. :| I have some cis male friends and usually they're alright, but sometimes I get really bummed out because the dynamic is off. Like my male friend will interact with me in the way he'd interact with a girl and it just makes me feel ->-bleeped-<-ty. I don't really blame them, because as far as they know I am a chick, but. Doesn't help with my self-confidence.

It's funny, because for a long time I thought I felt inferior around cis males because I was bothered by their occasional misogyny. And while sexism does irritate the hell out of me, that's not the true source of the feelings. :P

I used to be headed for medical school, and I had a kid already, and I didn't think I could ever come out of the closet, ever transition. Then I revised that and thought I would wait until my kid was grown. Then, well, I wasn't happy. It was too hard.

But I did spend a very long time just keeping it to myself. During that time I had to compartmentalize my feelings about it pretty carefully. I tried to be scientific and aloof. I tried to see it as an interesting aberration, to look at myself as any other animal on this planet, and just focus on surviving and living as well as possible. It was hard though. I don't know how you do it.

Quote from: Vine on March 03, 2012, 05:25:40 PM
I do indeed have a stealth life, but it's out of necessity at this point, although I do plan to transition slowly; toes in the water, testing out how it feels before progressing further and all that.
I basically have to put a female personality front when I'm around my family, especially the family on my mother's side, since they are very religious, and look down on anything that isn't straight. I feel bad a lot of the time, since my aunts like to buy me nice female clothing, and I have to pretty much fake being happy since I know I'll probably never wear them. Plus I can't even count the times I've had to come up with weird excuses as to why I don't wear make-up. It's like I have two personalities, and the female personality is very uncomfortable for me because it's like suppressing how I really want to act.
I feel most natural on the internet or with my friends, since I'm allowed to act how I want without consequences.
It's hard to put up a female front all the time though, but I think my parents just believe I'm a tomboy right now so it's alright.
I think the hardest part is trying spend time with one particular aunt, since I spent a lot of time around her when I was a kid, and she liked to treat me like a little princess. Now she still tries to do that by offering me a large variety of make-up (she works for Mary Kay), inviting me to go shopping with her or calling me to ask if I want her to buy me any clothes or jewelry. It makes me feel the worse to keep making excuses or disappointing her, but I try my best to fake it for her sake.
Depressing stuff, man.

My grandma was like that for the longest.  She would buy me jewerly and thongs and that just triggered my dysphoria so bad.

Nowadays I try my best to cling on to every little "misgendering" I can get.  So far it really hasn't happened yet but I'm banking on it one day and practicing and preparing what I will say around those who may be around me when it happens.

Quote from: Malachite on April 07, 2012, 09:35:25 AM
My grandma was like that for the longest.  She would buy me jewerly and thongs and that just triggered my dysphoria so bad.

Nowadays I try my best to cling on to every little "misgendering" I can get.  So far it really hasn't happened yet but I'm banking on it one day and practicing and preparing what I will say around those who may be around me when it happens.

Lol your grandma bought you thongs? How do you keep a straight face? :laugh:

Quote from: Felix on April 07, 2012, 04:14:33 PM
Lol your grandma bought you thongs? How do you keep a straight face? :laugh:

I hope he's talking about flip flops, they are often called thongs.

Quote from: Felix on April 07, 2012, 04:14:33 PM
Lol your grandma bought you thongs? How do you keep a straight face? :laugh:

I wish I knew the answer to that lol

@ Jamie nope not those sorts of thongs.  I think she gave me like a red one and a cheetah one that my mom tried to make me wear to school in fourth grade once.  She told me "I think you're old enough for these now...."

I do to a point.  I live my day to day as a woman (cuz I are one  :angel:).  But if I am asked I am truthful, but I have only be asked once and that was because I had a post on Facebook ("If you want to know, ask") and one of the girls at school asked.  But since then her attitude towards me never changed.  I am still just one of the girls.

Quote from: Malachite on April 07, 2012, 04:30:41 PM
I wish I knew the answer to that lol

@ Jamie nope not those sorts of thongs.  I think she gave me like a red one and a cheetah one that my mom tried to make me wear to school in fourth grade once.  She told me "I think you're old enough for these now...."

Malachite, well. Your mom's drinking kinda bugs you, right? Maybe you should file offerings of thongs along with being drunk around kids. Not something to put too much effort into getting on board with.

It could just be cultural differences, of course. I eat with my fingers and don't make my bed, and there are folks who balk at that.

Admittedly I am coming at this from the other direction but it is liikely i could get away with going "stealth", as there are a lot of people I have met lately who have not read me.  I am pretty obviously a dyke, so that may deflect any questions.

Still, at 6'2", with broad shoulders and a deepish voice I figure there wil be some chance of being caught out, so I am fairly open about being Trans.  I figure that if I can show people I am distressingly normal, it will help others gain acceptance.

Side-note: living as female isn't "stealth", it's just being pre-transition. The title is misleading.

Andy has it right.

Quote from: poptart on April 08, 2012, 04:02:51 AM
Side-note: living as female isn't "stealth", it's just being pre-transition. The title is misleading.

Andy has it right.

You do know that putting something in quotes can also be used to indicate a different meaning of a word or phrase than the one typically associated with it? Well, if you didn't I guess you do now.

Quote from: insideontheoutside on April 09, 2012, 11:29:47 PM
You do know that putting something in quotes can also be used to indicate a different meaning of a word or phrase than the one typically associated with it? Well, if you didn't I guess you do now.

+1

When I saw it I immediately knew what it meant and I thought, "YES now is my time to shine teehee."  :D

Cheesy I know but anything to stall writing this 10 page paper.....

I don't know if I quite fit what you're looking for since I actually am physically transitioning, but still living as female for another year or so. I definitely have had a lot of those "if you only knew" moments lately, especially when people are talking about strength. My neighbor's kid was trying to be a tough guy and saying "what would you do if I just punched you right now?" I just laughed and told him I'd kick his ass so fast it would make his head spin (ok, that sounds bad, but it was all in fun). I kinda feel like a superhero. People still see this scrawny little girl, but I can lift heavy stuff now.

To answer your questions in the OP:

What do you find the hardest part to be about having to live in society as female?
Not really sure 'cause I've always been seen as some weird manly girl anyway. People usually just pick up on it and treat me like a dude, even when I'm dressed in a blouse and girl pants for work. I'd say the worst part of being seen as female is gross old guys hitting on me in bars. Even with me looking like this, you're interested? Blecch.

What about appearances ... do you still look more female than male? Dress male or female?
Never really looked or dressed that female. I recently shaved my hair down to 1/2-inch all around, so now I definitely look more male than female. It's confusing the hell out of the poor folks at my mom's retirement home. My mom keeps getting the "is that your son?" question when we meet new people.

Does having to "play the part" ever wear you down?
Nah, if anything it's always amused me. I kinda like keeping people guessing. I think I've mentioned this on another thread, but I love going to the bathroom at football games when all the girls are drunk and seeing how many of them get confused and double-check the sign on the door when I'm walking in with them. :laugh:

Do other females trip you out in any way because they think you're "one of them"?
See the first answer. They don't usually think I'm one of them.

Quote from: insideontheoutside on April 09, 2012, 11:29:47 PM
You do know that putting something in quotes can also be used to indicate a different meaning of a word or phrase than the one typically associated with it? Well, if you didn't I guess you do now.

Your point? I'm making sure people know this is not what stealth actually means, since I've seen it used this way on here before. This post can only serve to further them thinking this way unless a distinction is made.

Quote from: poptart on April 10, 2012, 02:02:33 PM
Your point? I'm making sure people know this is not what stealth actually means, since I've seen it used this way on here before. This post can only serve to further them thinking this way unless a distinction is made.

And I'm making sure people know what putting quotes around a word means. But I see that everything has to have the proper definition around here because no one can be outside the box or trying something different. Once the trans community adopts a word the definition is set in stone.

Quote from: insideontheoutside on April 11, 2012, 10:12:45 PM
And I'm making sure people know what putting quotes around a word means. But I see that everything has to have the proper definition around here because no one can be outside the box or trying something different. Once the trans community adopts a word the definition is set in stone.

Words only have the meanings that people collectively agree they have. The definition is not set in stone, but it's also not up for personal interpretation.

The "trans community" is a joke btw.

Carry on.

I agree with Andy and Poptart - living stealth means to live in your chosen gender and not revealing to new people that you are transgendered.  I think you mean being in the closet - living in your birth gender, not your chosen gender and hiding your transgendered status.

It's silly to use the word stealth to mean either/or for two completely different concepts - in this case or any case - not very efficient.

I think the term "stealth" could be taken either or as long as you define the context of the word. Not everything has to have one strict meaning and to me it is not silly.

I'm currently living as female but not many people know I'm trans.  Now in that text do I consider myself "stealth"?  Heck yeah I do since not many people know.

Which one sounds more badass?  "I'm hiding in the closet and not many know that I'm transgendered because I haven't came out yet?"  OR "I'm as stealth as Solid Snake baby!"

and to lighten the mood:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi40.tinypic.com%2Fv2tpwo.jpg&hash=39d6baa1fc08aa0acfdc8a96e7cfd828a590878e)

I think for practical purposes, definitions should be clear.  If someone here says, "i'm stealth, yada, yada, yada....", then people have to wonder - does he/she mean in the closet or stealth?

It's just inefficient - what if every word has two or more completely different meanings?

I don't see the problem. Inside is welcome to his own use of a word. He defined what he meant in the OP, so it should be fine. It's a turn of phrase.

Quote from: sonopoly on April 12, 2012, 11:44:35 PM
It's just inefficient - what if every word has two or more completely different meanings?

Lots of words have different meanings and those meanings are based in context.

No one has to agree with Inside's choice of the word at all, but he is welcome to his own definition. For the record, I felt like I was acting in a steathy or sneaky manner when I was pretending to be female.

And with that, I am going to step out of the conversation.

Yeah, but he had to write a long post to define a word which shouldn't need that much definition (and people were still confused)  It's like saying, "I have a cat that jumps around on his two hind legs and has a pouch, but he's a cat, because I say so".

Quote from: sonopoly on April 12, 2012, 11:44:35 PM
I think for practical purposes, definitions should be clear.  If someone here says, "i'm stealth, yada, yada, yada....", then people have to wonder - does he/she mean in the closet or stealth?

It's just inefficient - what if every word has two completely different meanings?

I see where you are coming from and yes definitions should be clear and for the most part currently "stealth" is defined as what Andy has stated.  However if the OP felt that was the only context of stealth then there would be no need to put it in quotes.  He could of easily asked, "Are you stealth?" and lets face it, to me that would have been a boring question because a lot of guys are stealth.  There aren't many guys I know walking around openly telling people that they are trans or whatnot. 

We already know that some of the guys here are stealth or at least trying to be and that's fine at all but for the guys out there *cough cough* who for whatever reason may be unable or or even chose not to tranition and in result stays presenting as female then term "stealth" used in context and threads like this can serve to act as a fresh of breath air in my opinion instead of the regular "questions about T" or "passing" questions" or types of questions that many "stealth" guys can't get involved with because they aren't transitioning.  I wouldn't call it "inefficient" but rather "diverse".

According to the fictional character of Michaela Carapadis, almost every word has two meanings lol

Then again, I can only speak for myself.

Again though I do meet you at your perspective of keeping the meanings simple.

Quote from: Ayden on April 12, 2012, 11:55:53 PM
Inside is welcome to his own use of a word. He defined what he meant in the OP, so it should be fine. It's a turn of phrase.

IOTO is welcome to his own use of a word. He was pretty clear on what he meant by it. He used it as a convenience and a commentary on the state of things. He lives as a girl, which is indeed a kind of stealth even if not the first definition most of us have for the term. Language is fun, and in english especially, definitions tend not to have isolated and enduring meanings.

Quote from: Malachite on April 12, 2012, 11:39:39 PM
I think the term "stealth" could be taken either or as long as you define the context of the word. Not everything has to have one strict meaning and to me it is not silly.

I do see where the OP is coming from and I understand how "stealth" could apply to pre-transition, but since that isn't the way the word is used among trans people, it only causes confusion. What if people say they're "stealth" in a different post, thinking this is what it means? For the sake of practicality, I agree with this:

Quote from: sonopoly on April 13, 2012, 12:03:58 AM
Yeah, but he had to write a long post to define a word which shouldn't need that much definition.  It's like saying, "I have a cat that jumps around on his two hind legs and has a pouch, but he's a cat, because I say so".

The OP has defined what they mean, though, and it has been established that their definition isn't the common one. So I have no problems with this post -- was just clarifying for people who didn't know.

Sorry guys, i think i lost a bit of humanity here, but you all brought me back.

Quote from: poptart on April 13, 2012, 12:14:11 AM
I do see where the OP is coming from and I understand how "stealth" could apply to pre-transition, but since that isn't the way the word is used among trans people, it only causes confusion. What if people say they're "stealth" in a different post, thinking this is what it means? For the sake of practicality, I agree with this:

The OP has defined what they mean, though, and it has been established that their definition isn't the common one. So I have no problems with this post -- was just clarifying for people who didn't know.

Practicality is good.  It is as good as trial and error.  I think that if a guy stays around in the trans community long enough he will quickly realize what the term "stealth" is usually applied to.  He may learn that very quickly if he were to search "FtM stealth" in Google.  There may be 2 out of 100 results that may refer to stealth in the context as to what the OP was mentioning.  In the chance he does find out the OP's stealth meaning then lets hope the next guy also welcomes a more broader sense of the term so that he won't be as confused next time.  :)

I totally forgot about this thread! I think it's kinda awesome it provoked a discussion. I do like to be the purveyor of interesting topics and different viewpoints after all ;)

And you know, I never did like the term, "in the closet". Besides, if we're going to get down to semantics that phrase was pioneered by the L&G movement. And really, once you start transitioning and are able to get your legal docs squared away and pass as male, why even use the term stealth anymore? You're just a dude ... like any other dude at that point ... just living your life. Your physiological secret really only needs to be known by who you sleep with (and even then sometimes you can get away with it), and you probably wouldn't use the term stealth when talking to a potential love interest. But hey, that's just my viewpoint. But when you're covertly operating in the female world, that's pretty "stealth" imo!

Quote from: insideontheoutside on May 03, 2012, 01:37:43 AM
covertly operating in the female world

Ooh, I love that description. That's exactly how I feel right now. Like I'm Clark Kent trying to hide the fact he can lift a car without breaking a sweat. 8)

Quote from: driven on May 03, 2012, 08:35:28 AM
Ooh, I love that description. That's exactly how I feel right now. Like I'm Clark Kent trying to hide the fact he can lift a car without breaking a sweat. 8)

Exactly!

Haha, I like it.  I'd take "covert operative" over "dude who looks like a girl" any day.

I've been living as female for a long time since I realized I was male--I actually halfway tried to transition in middle school, but of course I didn't have any resources on being transgender, and didn't really understand it as a thing.

I'm really afraid of losing my relationship with my father if I come out. Ironically, we're very father-son-ish, but he's bad at being an advocate for himself and his children in the face of my family's overwhelming pressure to conform. In private he's quite affectionate and really enjoys my boyishness, we're almost like brothers together, but when I'm at family gatherings I think he feels strange being responsible for me, since I don't fit in at all with the rest of my heteronormative cissexist somewhat racist Southern family. I know he would feel put-upon and awkward explaining my "condition" to the rest of the family, and I think he might distance himself from me about it for a while because he can't deal with having feelings.

He also expressed a lot of concern for my personal safety and career prospects when I told him I was bisexual, so I think he'd want me to become comfortable with being a woman so that I would not face so much trouble living as a trans man.

My mother knows I'm not just female, because she's been there all my life and witnessed my asking for a penis in nursery school and dressing as a boy for several years, etc. But she really dislikes androgyny and I think she has a lot of trouble dealing with my being someone other than her.

Blah blah blah my family sucks. Anyway, more specific answers to questions:

What do you find the hardest part to be about having to live in society as female?
Getting called ma'am all the time, especially as, living in the South, it happens constantly. I can stand being looked at by guys and treated a bit like a lady, because I'm a really girly guy and I can tell myself they're attracted to me as a pretty boy, but ma'am is the worst kind of misgendering to me, because it always sounds so condescending and like they aren't even vaguely supposing I might not be totally cis and female.

What about appearances ... do you still look more female than male?
Hopefully I'll always look kind of girly/femmy. Since I'm not on T and have gained a bit of weight, my face is a bit too girly for me, and I've got enormous breasts I want gone (and large hips too.) So people read my body as female, especially here where I have to wear warm-weather clothing and where androgyny is not usually read as such. This frustrates me. Other than wanting to lose some fat and bulk up some muscle and lose the tits, I'm kind of okay with my looks, I just wish people saw me as "woah really girly dude" rather than "oh kind of dudely girl".

Dress male or female?
I'm wearing a skirt from H&M right now, dude, I think that answers your question.
For parties, bars etc I'll present more like my real self. I go to drag king shows in a binder and with clothing that maximizes the more masculine parts of my body (broad shoulders and chest, long legs), and when I have to go to funerals and other official-ish occasions I wear a lot of black lace or brocade with pants, in a way that is still very queer rock star even though I have boobs.

Does having to "play the part" ever wear you down?
Oh, all the time, but especially around my family, my mother in particular. It's very tiresome to invent excuses for why I want relatively normal guy things, like swim trunks or 'violent things' which weren't considered appropriate for a girl. And I'm very often jealous of my younger brother, not so much because he's cis but because my parents treat him like a boy without his having to fight for everything.

Do other females trip you out in any way because they think you're "one of them"?
Mainly it's just when they refer to "just us girls" or something, including me in the group. Also, very conservative women will change in front of me, which weirds me out.

Quote from: Marion on May 04, 2012, 02:59:38 PM

Do other females trip you out in any way because they think you're "one of them"?
Mainly it's just when they refer to "just us girls" or something, including me in the group.

I can so relate to that.  Today my sister and her friend were talking about going on a vacation and have it be "just us girls" only.  My stomach dropped.

Quote from: Marion on May 04, 2012, 02:59:38 PM
My mother knows I'm not just female, because she's been there all my life and witnessed my asking for a penis in nursery school and dressing as a boy for several years, etc.

For me it was asking my mom and dad why I couldn't pee out of my penis (and trying to stand to do so). So yeah, I know from day 1 I was male.

Quote from: Marion on May 04, 2012, 02:59:38 PM
I'm kind of okay with my looks, I just wish people saw me as "woah really girly dude" rather than "oh kind of dudely girl".

Yeah, this. Exactly. That would definitely be a goal of mine - if people that just thought I was a pretty or andro dude rather than calling me "ma'am".

Quote from: Marion on May 04, 2012, 02:59:38 PM
I'm wearing a skirt from H&M right now, dude, I think that answers your question.

I'm all for people NOT wearing gender-specific clothes. Wear what you like, ya know? Most of my fly ass jackets come from the women's department and most people would never know.

Quote from: Malachite on May 04, 2012, 05:12:18 PM
I can so relate to that.  Today my sister and her friend were talking about going on a vacation and have it be "just us girls" only.  My stomach dropped.

Yeah talk about some of the most uncomfortable situations ever. And not just uncomfortable but often just inexplicably stupid as well. Have you ever had the displeasure of attending a Girl Scouts "camp". Ugh. Or a pre-teen girl sleep over? When I was older I'd gotten roped into "girls night" type activities thrown by friends. Watching sappy movies and talking about boyfriends was almost as bad as the pre-teen sleep overs. Seriously I should have gotten some Oscar's for the acting job I've done over the years. That's not to say that every "female only" type of thing I've endured was all bad or that they always act so, you know I don't even know a good word for how some of them act. I remember being at a swanky hotel spa once. Talk about covert operations. I changed in a bathroom stall but the place was crawling with women who'd just get butt naked right there and waltz to the jacuzzi or sauna. I guess they really are like men's spas in that respect! But it was totally one of those "if they only knew" situations lol.