Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I wasn't sure whether to put this here or under the coming out section but as this relates to more people here than there, here it is.

I am going to start coming out to the world as genderqueer in the next few days and wanted some tips. I'm not really sure what to say beyond a general explanation of what non binary means, then the general coming out stuff like changes whatnot.
So, if any of you have advice, stories, or anything to add that will help, please post here.

This is the right place. We are somewhat segregated at times. Which is nice as it turns out.

Other than that, I'm sorry I don't have any advice other than to be very wary of labels on boxes.
They tend to get in your way when trying to be yourself, as things in your life will change.
Hopefully all for the good.

Ativan

My advice would always be don't 'come out' as such - make the changes you want to make, when asked why you are doing that, say it makes you feel more like yourself...then wait for them to tell you what you are as the months progress.

Quote from: Pica Pica on March 09, 2012, 10:46:07 AM
My advice would always be don't 'come out' as such - make the changes you want to say, when asked why you are doing that, say it makes you feel more like yourself...then wait for them to tell you what you are as the months progress.

Always remember that if someone doesn't except you as you are, it is their problem, not yours.
Pica's advice is correct. In the past, Pica said as much in other threads. I adopted it. It works.
Just really be yourself. It's almost weird how people just accept it. Those that don't,... Oh well, not your problem.

Pica definitely has the right idea on this one: I've had to come out as trans for obvious reasons since I'm physically transitioning, but something like this isn't so straight-forward. Telling Mum about being TS was hard enough, as I got the "but you wore dresses/make-up/etc" speech, but trying to explain that I'm still somewhere in the middle, which extends to my choice of lower surgery, has been quite a struggle.

The sad truth is that society is so entrenched in the binary mindset - that you're either one or the other and that it's impossible to be anything else - that telling people there is something else is extremely hard. The only people I've found who are worth coming out to are other trans* people, and even then you'll be lucky if they understand it all.

My self discovery time as rather hard for me and my mum noticed I as having problems with something I told her I let her know when I understood what I was going through a few months Later I came out to My parents and have had a few conversations with them about where I'm at,  I also came out to a fe friends because I knew I'd be making changes and I anted them to be for warned rather then seeing me all frocked up and being in shock.  Some ere ok with it as long as nothing changed or I didn't talk about it.  I didn't know that doing either would cause friends to reject me.  but it did,  I lost a number of friends in the process. It may be better not to tell people too much & not to update your friends on changes you have made.  But if you don't intend on making noticeable changes then coming out to people might not be a good idea

Quote from: Pica Pica on March 09, 2012, 10:46:07 AM
My advice would always be don't 'come out' as such - make the changes you want to say, when asked why you are doing that, say it makes you feel more like yourself...then wait for them to tell you what you are as the months progress.

Right-o!

As I learn more from others here, I am coming to the realization that I am what I am, and there is no sense in fretting over it.  Non-binary, androgenous, genderqueer, pansexual, and all those other labels just box me in.

Quote from: Pica Pica on March 09, 2012, 10:46:07 AM
My advice would always be don't 'come out' as such - make the changes you want to say, when asked why you are doing that, say it makes you feel more like yourself.

Yup, this.

When I get asked, I just say that I don't really identify as a woman, but I'm not a man either. That's enough for most people, which is good because I don't know how to pronounce neutrois. ;)

People seem to take to it pretty easily. My mom has switched mostly from calling me her 'daughter' to her 'child'. My sister studies Russian, and likes to say things, then translate and tell me she used as neutral a form as she could think of since she didn't think I'd 'appreciate' the feminine. :D My partner and some of my friends use my chosen name and pronouns. My other friends have mostly stopped referring to me as one of the girls, and stuff like that. It's enough to be comfortable without having to explain my gender identity in detail to everyone.

Me too, I'm just me and enjoy it more than trying to be what others want me to be. That's what the [A] stands for beneath my name there and not a*s-hole like some people might assume.  :laugh:

Quote from: Jamie D on March 10, 2012, 12:48:39 PM
As I learn more from others here, I am coming to the realization that I am what I am, and there is no sense in fretting over it.  Non-binary, androgenous, genderqueer, pansexual, and all those other labels just box me in.

Quote from: Shantel on March 10, 2012, 02:25:38 PM
Me too, I'm just me and enjoy it more than trying to be what others want me to be. That's what the [A] stands for beneath my name there and not a*s-hole like some people might assume.  :laugh:

Yep,...explaining it to each other here is difficult enough. We are all the same, yet very different.
Understanding Non-Binary is just impossible to do well enough to let a Binary Person understand to any great degree.
If the explanation is simple enough, they will fill in the blanks in their own way.
Which is well enough, as it seems most of us are in flux to one degree or another anyways.

Quote from: Jamie D on March 10, 2012, 12:48:39 PM
As I learn more from others here, I am coming to the realization that I am what I am, and there is no sense in fretting over it.  Non-binary, androgenous, genderqueer, pansexual, and all those other labels just box me in.

I suppose labels can be useful when trying to buy clothes that fit. Not so much for describing my gender. These days when I come out, I just say that gender is continuum, people seem to get that. I am simply Z.

Z

I wonder if you really need to explain yourself, I mean whose business is it? Just do what you want to do. If people have questions, maybe they will ask.

Quote from: Ativan on March 08, 2012, 07:35:01 PM
This is the right place. We are somewhat segregated at times. Which is nice as it turns out.

Other than that, I'm sorry I don't have any advice other than to be very wary of labels on boxes.
They tend to get in your way when trying to be yourself, as things in your life will change.
Hopefully all for the good.

Ativan

EXACTLY, because you don't want to end up serving the label and not the other way around.  For this reason I think that a label for who/what you are should be largely an afterthought.  ;)

I had some personal revelations about that recently, and decided labels are kind of harmful at some stage.  I realized I was looking for a label not just to describe myself succintly, but for validation and instruction.  Like if I felt comfortable enough with it I could surrender responsibility for being me, and just be the label.  But none of the labels I have encountered fit me well enough for that.  Even "androgyne" sort of doesn't seem right because my experience seems different from the sorts of things many people here describe.

It's similar, I realized, to trying to find the right subgenre terms to describe the music I make.  There are elements and influences of this and that, but all I can honestly claim is "electronic."  Let other people call it more specific things if they like.

So I am nonbinary, and the rest is in the eye of the beholder.  ...except that most of beholders are going to read me as male, and won't recognize nonbinary any more than Pachelbel would have recognized electronic music.

World is binary so that if we start as one gender and move into center we confuse people.  People have enough trouble with moving from one gender to another but moving into middle really confuses them.

As one friend told me when you move to middle you become a "bird of paradise."

Or you are born with one gender and chose to become an hermaphrodite.

Wow that confuses people and makes them uncomfortable.

Quote from: wendy on April 05, 2012, 04:51:56 PM
World is binary so that if we start as one gender and move into center we confuse people.  People have enough trouble with moving from one gender to another but moving into middle really confuses them. Wow that confuses people and makes them uncomfortable.

Fortunately I am not responsible for anyone else's feelings or how they perceive me, it's their problem and I let them deal with it. I know that I can not make anyone else either happy or unhappy. If a person is unhappy with how or what they perceive someone else to be, once again it's their problem and it's up to them to change their own attitude because they will invariably be powerless to change someone else to fit what they think should be.

Quote from: Shantel on April 05, 2012, 06:49:02 PM
Fortunately I am not responsible for anyone else's feelings or how they perceive me, it's their problem and I let them deal with it. I know that I can not make anyone else either happy or unhappy. If a person is unhappy with how or what they perceive someone else to be, once again it's their problem and it's up to them to change their own attitude because they will invariably be powerless to change someone else to fit what they think should be.

Well said Shantel - BUT, let's not overlook that we are not an island.
If we create major confusions in others it will most certainly reflect back on us.
If THAT was not so, we would not even have to mention or talk about such things.
Telling every one to just "go take a hike" --- guess what happens... you yourself will have to take a hike more sooner then later.
A lot of things are MUCH, much easier said then actually done...

If gender binary was a non-issue in our culture, we would not even have to mention it for a start.

Axélle

Quote from: Axélle-Michélle on April 06, 2012, 05:36:26 AM

Well said Shantel - BUT, let's not overlook that we are not an island.

If gender binary was a non-issue in our culture, we would not even have to mention it for a start.

Axélle

You're right! I just get a little heated and my hackles go up at times!  ;)

O.K. I went shopping at Costco today.  They all know me and I am out.  I am out as me.  When I put groceries in trunk of car I found a broken egg under some groceries.  Egg was raw and cracked but not opened.  I loaded groceries and left cracked egg in cart.  I did not have a cracked egg in cart to start and did not buy eggs.  I have paranoia but I will ignore my paranoia.   Hey if you present Bird of paradise at store and find a cracked egg in your cart it is totally a coincidence.  Of course in all my years of shopping I never found a cracked egg in my cart.

Check out lady say, "How are you sir?" Then she corrected herself and said, "Excuse me."  Hey that would be paranoia if I though she said excuse me for my gender.

Went to liquor store and man said, "Good day sir."  After I purchased liquor he asked, " Would you like a box for liquors Ma'am?"

Must be paranoia but then again I mix genders and it really upsets older ladies.   

Or, to rephrase the story in another way. You went shopping and bought some groceries.

Quote from: Pica Pica on April 06, 2012, 05:19:12 PM
Or, to rephrase the story in another way. You went shopping and bought some groceries.

Brilliant! ;)

Quote from: Pica Pica on April 06, 2012, 05:19:12 PM
Or, to rephrase the story in another way. You went shopping and bought some groceries.

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall!

I would prefer a dozen uncracked eggs or a tee-bone steak tucked for free under my groceries.

Excuse me I need to fly around town and do a few more errands before sun gets too hot and melts wax on my wings.

Quote from: Shantel on April 06, 2012, 12:01:55 PM
You're right! I just get a little heated and my hackles go up at times!  ;)

Hug :-) I know, those things can get up one's nose once in a while :-)

Axélle

Changing oil on car is just too much fun to eliminate with a gender modifications!  I have taught my daughters to go to quick oil change shops and get oil changed but when they are home I get to have honors.  Today Humpty Dumpty, Bird of Paradise, Diesel was positioned facing sky to change oil.  What I found is that oil plug had gasket sealer all over it.  A true Diesel would be suspicious.

Well oil change shop (do not know which one) stripped thread of steel oil pan and I had to chat with some mechanics to find a low cost fix. (Oil pan change at Toyota was $800.)  Young male mechanic at auto store was extremely helpful and I went to store manager to give young man a good word.  Even saw another Non-binary customer in auto store.  Guess one day we can fly in flocks.  :)  Do keep oil off wings as it is a known carcinogenic in state of California.

I have been lucky in so many ways that my coming out as androgyne in my department at university was not a problem at all. Granted, it's the anthropology department, which at my school is probably the most accepting of such an identity. Still, my research advisor was absolutely wonderful and actually teaches a sex and gender class. Parents and friends were a bit more awkward, though. With my parents, I had initially come out as MtF, so coming out as genderqueer was probably a bit of a relief for them. Initially whenever I dressed with makeup, I would get a kind of "not this ->-bleeped-<- again" look from my Dad, but both of them accept it now. My two housemates, though, were not so accepting, so I'm living at home until August when I'll be moving into my own private place.

Quote from: Shantel on April 05, 2012, 06:49:02 PM
Fortunately I am not responsible for anyone else's feelings or how they perceive me, it's their problem and I let them deal with it.

Oh Shantel, I envy you so much. I'm all about not making the people around me feel uncomfortable. Not by choice, but I seem to be wired that way. I'm a schoolteacher and I find it hard enough to teach my students what I want them to learn without throwing in the distraction of displaying my inner gender termoil on the surface. And our principal is such a traditionalist. I don't fear discrimination, per se, just that when I bring up a problem or need help from an administrator, things would go more smoothly if I weren't seen, in his eyes at least, as some kind of a nut.

Quote from: agfrommd on April 24, 2012, 10:57:06 AM
Oh Shantel, I envy you so much. I'm all about not making the people around me feel uncomfortable. Not by choice, but I seem to be wired that way. I'm a schoolteacher and I find it hard enough to teach my students what I want them to learn without throwing in the distraction of displaying my inner gender termoil on the surface. And our principal is such a traditionalist. I don't fear discrimination, per se, just that when I bring up a problem or need help from an administrator, things would go more smoothly if I weren't seen, in his eyes at least, as some kind of a nut.

It's natural to want to please others and to be accepted and even loved unconditionally by others, so it was something I had to work at, and as Axélle-Michélle had pointed out earlier, it's not always the best attitude to assume.

A friend who is native American was being treated poorly by another person and it appeared to me that it was because of his ethnicity. I had become incensed by it and told him how I felt he was being treated. By the way, this man has a masters degree and isn't just some poor lackey. He told me not to be concerned because it was the other person's problem and he was going to allow him to continue to be obnoxious and learn to deal with it until  he begins to see himself as the jerk he is being. It was a learning moment for me, he was correct. We don't have to take it on our shoulders when others misbehave.