Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Ok, I was expecting a bit of transhate. There's not a lot of ignorance in this small city, but there are still some messed up people.

I'm 5"4 (164cm), blonde, 53kgs and i wear glasses  -  aka; the most nonthreatening looking dude you'll ever meet over the age of 20.   >_>

A lot of the straight people that have been told have been weirded out but accepted it pretty quickly. What I wasn't expecting the first transhate to come from was a group of lesbians. It was like my gender had somehow offended their sensitive butchy sexuality. Which is weird as hell cause I obviously not straight!

The night ended with my poor gentle giant boyfriend(whos never fought anyone in his life) getting punched in the face by one of these overgrown germ cultures.
SO ANGRY.
I get straight people hating us for whatever social reason - but WHAT THE HELL GAY COMMUNITY? Why'd they throw the first punch?   >:(

I don't get t why anyone is hating us, except out of fear because they simply refuse to understand us.
That means anyone can hate us and that anyone can if they choose to be that way.

All of the hostility I have received over the years has been from either lesbians or African americans. Go figure why a persecuted minority would attack another persecuted minority? I gave up trying to figure that one out a long time ago.

few years ago I went to a LGBT conference and sat at table with others and all seemed OK...door opened and a latecomer arrived...took one look at me and must have thought she'd caught me eating a new born baby or something...the look on her face was pure hatred/disgust etc etc...she was as rough/shapeless/butch a Scotch lesbian as its possble to be.

I say that some lesbians are susceptible to BRSS and the unrealised affects of this syndrome cause lesbians to have serious mental problems along the lines of paranoid shizophrenias/delusions/persecutions that outlet as man hating in general and transhating in particular.

As Kynn's friend was attacked by one of these it is most likely they blame him on 'turning or seducing' Kynn into choosing an obvious male over a lesbian and thereby making Kynn 'a traitor to the cause.'

There needs to be some research into this mental condition of lesbians.

For what its worth, I and many other MtFs starting out and not very passable and needing female clothes, makeup etc bring out an absolute fury/hate/disgust if we try to but at shops run by lesbians...far worse than we get from shop srun by heterosexual women or men - an dthat's bad enough.

Quote from: lilacwoman on March 11, 2012, 05:30:31 AM
few years ago I went to a LGBT conference and sat at table with others and all seemed OK...door opened and a latecomer arrived...took one look at me and must have thought she'd caught me eating a new born baby or something...the look on her face was pure hatred/disgust etc etc...she was as rough/shapeless/butch a Scotch lesbian as its possble to be.

I say that some lesbians are susceptible to BRSS and the unrealised affects of this syndrome cause lesbians to have serious mental problems along the lines of paranoid shizophrenias/delusions/persecutions that outlet as man hating in general and transhating in particular.

As Kynn's friend was attacked by one of these it is most likely they blame him on 'turning or seducing' Kynn into choosing an obvious male over a lesbian and thereby making Kynn 'a traitor to the cause.'

There needs to be some research into this mental condition of lesbians.

For what its worth, I and many other MtFs starting out and not very passable and needing female clothes, makeup etc bring out an absolute fury/hate/disgust if we try to but at shops run by lesbians...far worse than we get from shop srun by heterosexual women or men - an dthat's bad enough.

Lesbians fought hard for their rights and now they feel we are infringing on them just being a woman. They usually don't hate the hetero trans and mostly hate the trans dykes. Many of them fear dating one like a straight gy fears dating a MTF.

Yes those with sch hate surely need to be diagnosed for that which they are suffering. However, they will say the psyche is screwed up etc etc rather than admit to the problem..

There are also some who go after younger lesbians or curious females and well they have a fetish for ciswomen and they don't like being caught being a child ->-bleeped-<- so they hate us being around or straight women catching them in the act. I have caught one at MWMF doing the same and she at the time wanted me bt then she figred out i was mtf and quickly had her harem of younger girls have me removed. However, i was laying there stoned from something they gave me to smoke and heard what she did to that new younger girl. It would have been seen as being pedophile but at fest that seems to be overlooked many times as some sort of teaching younger women what female on female sex is supose to be. Its almost like some sort of privledge they think they have earned.

There are some pretty strong minded butch women who feel they need to attack us especially in front of their harems to appear strong so they can keep their girls in control. I once saw that in florida with another womyn who even had some of her girls hooking to men for her. Then she would attack any mtfs to make herself look big in their eyes.

Some lesbians can also be perverted or abusive to the point of killing others just to show their toughness.. Its a shame that they go to that extreme. I have though met many who also frown on that kind of activity so don't stereotype all lesbians or butchs that way ;D


whats BRSS ?

I haven't struck any outright hatred or transphobia, but a bit of lack of understanding that has been able to be reasoned with.  All the Lesbians I have met have been at least polite.

Lateral discrimination within minorities is common, as is discrimination against those lower in society as a means of making your own group look more important. 

Karen.

Quote from: lilacwoman on March 11, 2012, 10:23:56 AM
BRSS = Bindel-Raymond-Stein-Syndrome  -   

wow thanks for this information.. i never heard of it bt suspected it

For one thing, I think they may have considered you a traitor to their gender twice over.  Although I'd guess I'm not the only one here who's more than curious as to what exactly they took issue with: your choice to be male, your choice of companion, both, etc.  Also, I would think that this obnoxious group is not largely representative of all lesbians.

 It's pretty irrational. I might say that if you're looking for hate, you are more likely to find it... so being more careful is always a decent idea.

As to why... I have no idea. Outside of religious belief (and even then) it's fairly illogical to hate on us; I guess we're just easy targets. We confuse people, or frustrate them, or force their brains to think in a way that it's not used to... something like that.

But, whatever, right? Just have to be strong, and be willing to use that strength... particularly that inner-steel that most of us develop.

Quote from: Kelly J. P. on March 17, 2012, 09:54:22 PM
As to why... I have no idea. Outside of religious belief (and even then) it's fairly illogical to hate on us; I guess we're just easy targets.

One thing too I have noticed, when I had low self esteem was when people would hurl insults. I honestly think these types of bullies can smell fear and attack those they feel will cower under their taunting. Over the last 5 or 6 years when I finally developed the "f you, there is NOTHING wrong with me" attitude, no one has tried to insult me beyond a "can I help you SIR" (which I didn't react to) testing the waters and even that hasn't happened in a couple of years now.

Quote from: lilacwoman on March 11, 2012, 10:23:56 AM
True FtMs don't respond well to estrogen as their body usually has enough of its own and their brain BSTC and body needs testosterone so that a real FtM will make a happy well adjusted guy - when lack of an acceptable penis is not an issue.

...this is a really ironic statement for me because I am actually allergic to excess estrogen. I've been on the pill since i was 13 but it's a nightmare on my body. It mutates my body physically and ->-bleeped-<-s with my brain chemical balance something shocking. I have to spend half a year on it and half a year off just to recover from being on it!

So what you said actually makes a lot of sense.

Quote from: Kelly J. P. on March 17, 2012, 09:54:22 PM
It's pretty irrational. I might say that if you're looking for hate, you are more likely to find it... so being more careful is always a decent idea.

I really wasn't. I was just sitting in the same bar that i've been going to every friday for 2 years. It's my bar!
These were new comers and it wasn't until they realized I was a girl (the lighting is very bad in there but i still use the girls bathroom cause they all know me as a girl there) and they saw the binder, that they made an issue and my boyfriend came to see what was happening.

i dont not think this represents the lesbian community at all - but i was shocked that i offended these woman so much.

 They found you?

They sound quite immature and not at all worth the time of day for words, in my opinion. :)

I haven't had much of that happen, personally, but when it did, I used to just ignore it.

Quote from: Amazon D on March 11, 2012, 10:45:25 AM
wow thanks for this information.. i never heard of it bt suspected it

Don't listen to that nonsense Danielle. There's no such thing as BRSS, it's a made-up disorder that I suspect began as a bit of wry commentary on the scariness of some butch feminists. I don't know why it's being referred to like it's an actual medical term. Every single line in lilacwoman's last post is spurious, just political views cloaked in a thin veil of pseudoscience.

Regarding the thread topic I think we rile up a little bit of defensiveness in some gay people. We "make them look bad," we are an odd category that isn't sexual orientation, we're rare enough that they often have little real understanding of what it means to be trans, sometimes kicked people kick those they perceive to be below them, and so on.

I've been a little surprised too, though. My lesbian friends were the least cool about this. I got accused of changing myself when I should be changing society's expectations. But I think I would feel creeped out by my breasts even if I lived alone in the jungle. It's not a matter of preference or acceptance, and I think that fact isn't well-known yet. It's only just now being accepted in society that being gay is not a choice.

Quote from: Stephe on March 10, 2012, 08:05:51 PM
All of the hostility I have received over the years has been from either lesbians or African americans. Go figure why a persecuted minority would attack another persecuted minority? I gave up trying to figure that one out a long time ago.

RIGHT ON Stephani! Whee, an I thought I might be alone in this area ................ ellen  :o

Quote from: Kyyn on March 10, 2012, 06:24:40 PM
Ok, I was expecting a bit of transhate. There's not a lot of ignorance in this small city, but there are still some messed up people.

I'm 5"4 (164cm), blonde, 53kgs and i wear glasses  -  aka; the most nonthreatening looking dude you'll ever meet over the age of 20.   >_>

A lot of the straight people that have been told have been weirded out but accepted it pretty quickly. What I wasn't expecting the first transhate to come from was a group of lesbians. It was like my gender had somehow offended their sensitive butchy sexuality. Which is weird as hell cause I obviously not straight!

The night ended with my poor gentle giant boyfriend(whos never fought anyone in his life) getting punched in the face by one of these overgrown germ cultures.
SO ANGRY.
I get straight people hating us for whatever social reason - but WHAT THE HELL GAY COMMUNITY? Why'd they throw the first punch?   >:(

It has nothing to do with gay, straight or queer. People who hate do so regardless of sexual orientation. What you also have to realise is that the queer community (just like the trans community, for that matter, given how much hate I've seen against the queer community and against women by many transsexual-identified transfolks), like any community, is that it has its ignorant mainstream and the more politicised and inclusive underbelly. White homonormative gays and lesbians generally think that their rights struggles are over once marriage equality is achieved, and generally want to fade into the normative framework. Many of them, thanks to the society we live in and decades of radical feminist politics, do see trans people as a threat. Are they right in doing so? No. They're as ignorant as any straight cis person (and some trans people, for that matter). But do recognise that there are definitely many in the queer community who are trans allies and who don't spew that kind of hate.

I also find the amount of lesbian-bashing here kind of disturbing. The struggles most queer and trans people face are a result of centuries of patriarchal influence on our societies. The oppression of women, same-sex sex, trans/intersexed/non-normatively sexed or gendered people, people of colour, peole with disabilities etc. The result is that many communities tend to respond with hostility towards anyone who appears to be trying to further that oppression. That has definitely happened a lot with some women and LG who respond to the oppression they've received by lashing out at others. We in the trans community need to own our ->-bleeped-<- as well. The amount of misogynist transguys out there, often we do it because of the way society has treated us and because we think that if we distance ourselves from women to the extreme then that will make up for what society does to us. Same with transwomen and any other trans person. Unfortunately, it often comes with the territory when it comes to marginalised folks. You become excessively defensive over a lot of things, and often times end up hurting others who are just as marginalised or moreso than you are.

kyyn

I've been following this thread and feel so much sympathy for you.

I don't know if it helps much but you're in a situation where you're breaking new ground. Some hostility will emerge. It's really sad, but I just hope you and others in your situation can persevere. There is so much to gain in the long term for so many. But every journey starts with a first step.

Hope that doesn't sound like platitudes. It is just so maddening to hear of a sister or brother, being ill treated, because of who they are.

Enough of the name calling.  Lets just stick to the topic and respond to the theories without adding personal comments.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on May 10, 2012, 04:06:19 PM
Enough of the name calling.  Lets just stick to the topic and respond to the theories without adding personal comments.

The last reply was back in march! Did you just get back from vacation?

What your not seeing Amazon D is that another Moderator removed the post that was made today by Lilacwoman.  Someone Reported her post and I was responding to that.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on May 10, 2012, 04:32:59 PM
What your not seeing Amazon D is that another Moderator removed the post that was made today by Lilacwoman.  Someone Reported her post and I was responding to that.

oh lol sorry lol  yikes

I didn't see the post in question but I get the impression that I was involved. I just want to say for the record that I like lilacwoman and have nothing against her, and also that I'm not a member of any lesbian or feminist community but I have nothing against anyone who is.

I'm mostly shilling for equality and logic.

If I encountered "transhate", I wouldn't try to explain the whys and wherefores to them...it'd be like trying to explain racial equality to a bunch of skinheads, and just as likely to end up in fisticuffs.

Stand your ground, notify the bartender, and be ready to smash their heads in...there's no reasoning with people like that.

Can't say I've ever had any issues with transhate.. Not amongst the hetero community or the GLB community. I went out to the local GLB club here recently and didn't have any issues.. Well, there was one guy who gave me a hard time, but he's my cousin and was giving me a hard time for being dressed in a suit - he did admit I still made an attractive woman, even in a suit..

I have no idea what lilacwoman might have said, but she's been a little bitter to me more then once so I can guess haha

I also have full respect for lesbians. It was a lesbian that gave me my first binder :). I think I was just really angry because they made comments that all Tmen were just butch lesbians rejecting their real selfs and giving "other lesbians" a bad name. When I mentioned I was gay and had a boyfriend, they called me a fake and a freak and got violent.

They've been banned for life from the bar (ironically my boyfriend is friends with all the bartenders and has been for years). They've tried to get in a few more times and been kicked out again.

I tried going places but i soon found that i couldn't stand the prejudice so i stopped going to LGBT places. Oh it wasn't against me.. I am not one to fight people or their ideologies. I rather be alone here in the country with my amish neighbors who are decent people and are not anything like city people or so called christians..

I haven't had any issues. This is not representative of all lesbians. I have had some observations. Some GLBs uphold (consciously or unconsciously) the same strict gender binary system that was and is used against us. The difference with transgender folks is that we wear our identities. Others will try to shame us but we are getting better about being who we are and being visible.

Often I find that some of those factions that hates are in some dealing with their own sexual/gender issues. How many homophobes and transphobes have been outed in recent years upon discovering that they too are gay, lesbian, bi, or trans?
The recently deceased poet Adrienne Rich wrote some excellent poems. She was also a transphobe having been associated with Janice Raymond, who is certainly no friend of the trans community.