Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Is there anything that could [permanently] reduce my (not particularly wide) rib cage to become slightly narrower, flatter?

My rib cage is about 15 inch across, 8 inch deep, and at least 42 around, with weight loss I might be able to get it down to 14 inch by 7 inch and 39 around?  I think 13 by 6 inch with 36 around would be proportional ideal to my pelvis.

What effect does HRT have in this regard?
What effect does a corsets have on rib cage bones?
Could a corset reshape the rib cage into a more feminine shape (gentle slope, not so "box" like)?

Unfortunately there is not much to do hun. Corsets won't do a lot for your ribs.

I think this is one thing you may just want to accept about yourself. In some ways you can compensate by having bigger boobs. Of you can wear dresses that nip in at the waist and flair out, or skirts with extra folds in it to emphasis your hips.

But actually, a woman's rib cage is not that different to a guys. It's just that guys tend to have a slightly bigger frame. I've been with women the same height and weight as me with wider chests, but they did not look any less female.

I know ::) its more a vanity issue then gender issue. :embarrassed:

Not much we can do to rib cage size sadly - there are too many important bits there that don't appreciate getting squashed.  In any case, it's a whole package - you'd have to narrow the rib cage, and then narrow the shoulders as well to keep things in proportion.  Ouchy surgery involved I think, even if it were theoretically possible.

I think careful clothing selection would work better and is much safer. =(^.^)=

The lowest last 3 floating ribs can be reshaped over time with corset training but it's like dilation. It requires pain and dedication. At first you need to keep it on as much as possible but after a while it gets better.

You need a custom fit though which would be very costly and probably some help to put it on everyday but combined with waist stretches it would definitely provide results over time.

Most trans women aren't willing to go THAT far to get the best hourglass shape they can have.

Corsets in my personal experience ain't uncomfortable so long as they're fitted properly and your not jumping directly into the tightest fit possible in a single trial. Though to achieve any long term effects one needs to be in a corset for a fair few years.

The last time I wore a fully boned corset was via not so gentle encouragement from my ex... over the course of a day she reduced my waist to an astonishing 24" then preceded to go clubbing (first time to CD)... to me it wasn't so uncomfortable so long as I breathed with it.. actually I rather enjoyed it but then I'm part submissive. I'd do it again and try for 22" fully closed...

I used to be a bodybuilder ( 210lbs with 10% body fat).  I developed a method i call reverse training.  This is a concept i have used till this day.  I was a 42" chest and now I am 36 with D cup.  You have to dedicate yourself to this or it WILL NOT work.  It is a combination of a diet and training that combines cardio with light weight training.  Most of the problems i see with some pre ops is that they do not do, or do very little of.  They want to look as good as possible, but they do little work at the gym.  I still use keyto along with protein isolate and with a very clean diet.  You can do almost anything with your body if you put your mind to it. 

Quote from: Michelle Hayden on May 01, 2012, 12:35:52 AM
I used to be a bodybuilder ( 210lbs with 10% body fat).  I developed a method i call reverse training.  This is a concept i have used till this day.  I was a 42" chest and now I am 36 with D cup.  You have to dedicate yourself to this or it WILL NOT work.  It is a combination of a diet and training that combines cardio with light weight training.  Most of the problems i see with some pre ops is that they do not do, or do very little of.  They want to look as good as possible, but they do little work at the gym.  I still use keyto along with protein isolate and with a very clean diet.  You can do almost anything with your body if you put your mind to it.

Presumably, restricting weight training to the lower half of your body may help to balance out a heavy top half, and the cardio exercise should help reduce the upper body? What exercise do you recommend?

I'll slip in here, because this is an issue I have worried about. Sorry about the length.

Don't get too worried, and certainly not too soon. To me, there are two aspects: what your regimen actually does to your body and thinking in terms of proportions, not size.  Of course, one must approach it based on your own case -- for how you both diet and exercise.  Also, the end result is not about chest size or weight, really. It's how you are shaped and proportioned -- and that also is affected a bit by diet, HRT, and exercise. My approach was to break down and build back up -- but build up with the HRT going in full and a targeted exercise program for muscle. For the chest, it meant losing bulk and trying to shape for final proportion there and in other places.

In my experience (which is now far into transition), diet and hrt did more than I expected to reduce "chest  bulk," partly because I didn't realise what size I really was underneath.  I assumed I had a large frame. In fact, when I did the wrist and elbow measurements, it seemed I had a small/medium for a male (under 6" at the wrist when I started), although I was tall (5' 10") and fairly broad shouldered.  I went from a 44+-ish chest (as in what would be measured at bust) to 37. I think my ribcage size went from 40" to just under 35". I had I assumed I was a"big" person underneath it all, but it was just that I carried it all over. I managed to go from about 205 to 149. To me, HRT had no effect on my ability to lose weight (and I am in my early 50s). More important was the type of diet and my willingness to do significant cardio every day.

For diet, in consultation with my doctor, I started by figuring out what a reasonable and healthy target weight for my height would be -- at least when I started. As I went on this changed -- down as I discovered that I was actually smaller than I thought underneath. I came up with the right diet for me (which cut out carbs, and adjusted proteins and when I ate what). As for exercise, I focused on cardio for a while to both burn fat, and to eat up protein from muscle as the estro/spiro had its effect -- all over (though never cut out the protein intake). I kept adding toning and light strength training.

The other thing we overlook is proportions. There is no question that the primary "male markers" are chest/shoulder and height. These are not end all. Size is less important than is proportion to the rest of your body. You cannot change frame, but you can to some extent affect what's on it and help change proportions to those within or closer to natal women. You can try to focus on waist and hips workouts, as well as toning upper muscles as HRT has its effects to soften it all. While you can't widen your hip bones, you can build larger muscles that attach to them below, and that creates new curves for you.

We often hear that "natal women come in different shapes," which is true, but they are no happier about it than we are. If a natal woman has an inverted triangle shape, it's often softened by her waist and hips. They do not look less feminine in their triangle, it's just not as pronounced and offset a bit by other, female, markers. We can often influence it the same way. In addition, many female athletes have this issue, and they do not look less female either -- their look is the sum of their estrogen-affected muscle shape, and other "softeners," etc.

Finally, I happen to have an arts training as part of my background. There are plenty of diagrams out there about "ideal proportions" (lots online). NONE of them address size. Instead, it's how many head lengths or widths etc., or hand breadths, in proportion to the rest of the body. While we hear "36, 24, 36" or whatever as an ideal set of measurements, that's meaningless in many ways. They don't look the same on everyone or at all heights. As it happens, I'm 37, 29, 37, which might be thought of as slightly hourglass, but I don't look that way at all  -- my shoulders are broadish, and my waist isn't evenly "small" all around my hips. I have a softened, mildly inverted triangle that I work at, and that helps.

We all worry abut this.  In my view, we can take some steps to improve our look, but at a certain point we cross the line from wanting looking like who we are (female without a thought) to wanting to look more a beautiful ideal. The latter is fine, and we all want that, but it starts to get very subjective very fast. It's also very individualistic based on where your body type and shape comes out. To me: focus on getting proportions and shape sorted, don't worry about numbers.

in the doctor's last week was a woman with the greatest width chest I've ever seen...must have been a yard wide...but she wasn't fat just solid.

lots of mature women get quite large over the years and no-one notices.

its the language your body speaks with that gets attention.,

Quote from: Felicitá on May 01, 2012, 03:58:37 AM
Presumably, restricting weight training to the lower half of your body may help to balance out a heavy top half, and the cardio exercise should help reduce the upper body? What exercise do you recommend?

I do 5 miles on a treadmill starting with a run @ 5.9 mph then i go on an elliptical for another 140cals.  About 6.25 miles a day 6 days a wk.  I do a keyto diet which is below 60 grams of carbs a day.  I usually fall under this amount.  Avoid simple sugars, refined flower, do not add salt, no fats (you can have a spoon of peanut butter in a shake).  This is my diet...oatmeal with sugarless syrup and almonds with a 100% whey protein isolate sake for breakfast..a light lunch (salad with chicken then a simple dinner of lean meat or chicken, a veggie and either small baked potato or yam.  You have to do overall cardio to loose the weight and bulk..Spot training will not work..I also do light weight training ( that does not mean feather light).  Most of all is like what the above said.  You have to be strict on your diet and not cheat and also be consistent with the exercise. No excuses..My method it too involved to get into here, but it is rigorous.  You can loose alot of the bulk and width if you train and diet correctly.     

Anything that can be done with corset training is generally considered dangerous. There is a risk the organs will suffer from the compression, and I've read that if you do it for a long time (which is incidentally the time you need for it to be effective), you become fragilised, and actually need the corset to be able to stand normally and not risk breaking a bone.

Plus, a corset will only affect your lower ribs, and the visual effect will probably not be outstanding for that part (the fact that fat and organs are squeezed and your waist becomes considerably smaller actually is very apparent from what I've seen, but it's dangerous).

Finally, many have reported a measurement reduction after a while on HRT. Sometimes quite an impressive difference, even if the individual wasn't especially muscular. It just appears that back and chest muscles often lose a lot of volume with time.

Of course, it won't make your rib cage actually female, but it will probably reduce the gap, and you might even end up in the mid-high female norms, which is quite acceptable.

Quote from: A on May 01, 2012, 04:48:08 PM
Anything that can be done with corset training is generally considered dangerous. There is a risk the organs will suffer from the compression, and I've read that if you do it for a long time (which is incidentally the time you need for it to be effective), you become fragilised, and actually need the corset to be able to stand normally and not risk breaking a bone.
....

Hmm... I think, if you're gonna post factual information then at least include sources, this way people reading your comments can make informed decisions; otherwise it's just your personal opinions. 

I'm sorry if it appeared as such, but it's not actual fact, just what I learned from other members in a thread last year. And I don't know if what they said was facts or anecdotal evidence... But it didn't really look like an opinion.

To be more precise, I think what they said was something like: "It really isn't dangerous if you do it right; only it's hard not to do it wrong... Also, once you start wearing a corset, you can't really stop, since it changes the way your body supports itself".

Well, or so I think. It was last year, after all. If you have something more reliable than my old memories about the risks, I'll gladly believe you. ^^

Quote from: A on May 01, 2012, 06:10:58 PM
I'm sorry if it appeared as such, but it's not actual fact, just what I learned from other members in a thread last year. And I don't know if what they said was facts or anecdotal evidence... But it didn't really look like an opinion.

To be more precise, I think what they said was something like: "It really isn't dangerous if you do it right; only it's hard not to do it wrong... Also, once you start wearing a corset, you can't really stop, since it changes the way your body supports itself".

QuoteBut, some clarification is called for: Anything can be made harmful, but from what we know today, corseting or tightlacing have not been demonstrated to be inherently harmful. The diseases traditionally associated with very tight corseting during the 19th century, have now been either attributed to other causes, such as poor diet and hygiene, infectious diseases or environmental issues.

Quote from: A on May 01, 2012, 06:10:58 PM
Well, or so I think. It was last year, after all. If you have something more reliable than my old memories about the risks, I'll gladly believe you. ^^

Do as you wish, read for pleasure or education. Personally, I find this sight is fairy informative when it comes to corseting, they even provide illustrative images showing you what happens, additional links to yet more third-party sites : http://corsetreturn.topcities.com/harmful.htm (http://corsetreturn.topcities.com/harmful.htm)

Thanks; I'll be sure to take a look at it.

Hi Seyranna, how do you do? would u tell me how to make our waist be stretched?
Thanks in advanced

Quote from: Seyranna on April 11, 2012, 08:59:06 PM
The lowest last 3 floating ribs can be reshaped over time with corset training but it's like dilation. It requires pain and dedication. At first you need to keep it on as much as possible but after a while it gets better.

You need a custom fit though which would be very costly and probably some help to put it on everyday but combined with waist stretches it would definitely provide results over time.

Most trans women aren't willing to go THAT far to get the best hourglass shape they can have.

Quote from: Michelle Hayden on May 01, 2012, 12:35:52 AM
I used to be a bodybuilder ( 210lbs with 10% body fat).  I developed a method i call reverse training.  This is a concept i have used till this day.  I was a 42" chest and now I am 36 with D cup.  You have to dedicate yourself to this or it WILL NOT work.  It is a combination of a diet and training that combines cardio with light weight training.  Most of the problems i see with some pre ops is that they do not do, or do very little of.  They want to look as good as possible, but they do little work at the gym.  I still use keyto along with protein isolate and with a very clean diet.  You can do almost anything with your body if you put your mind to it.

I totally agree!  Rusty Moore has a really great program that revolves around losing muscle mass and getting feminine curves.  It's called "Visual Impact for Women" and talks about diet and cardio mixed with HIIT while using small weight and low reps to directly impact muscle areas.  It's really great!! I've just started it and I'm already starting to see results!

Stand tall, stretching up, shoulders back with a slight squeeze and tusch pushed out helps to create a more accepting form. Most guys slouch with shoulders forward and hunched giving an aggressive look like gorillas. I have been looking at many photos and videos of Transexual and GG beauty pageants and they all walk with shoulders back and slightly squeezed. Katherine Hepburn displays this poise and so too many models.
Corsets if not custom made make a small waist but accentuates lat spread as well as hips  but if there is upper body fat then one gets the dreaded rolls over the corset. So corsets are ok but do not alter shoulder width or chest depth.
I see many females and very pleasing transexuals have defined jawlines and slim necks, pronounced collar bones and not much fat on the upper back or under the armpits. Hence I have to
agree that exercise, and diet are the best things as well as good presentation and a smile to say,"hey world here I am".