Susan's Place Transgender Resources

In order to graduate, I must teach a dialect to a class.

I wish to teach the female dialect.

Thoughts? We have covered many regional dialects.

This dialect is different.

Female dialect? Eh?

Women tend to let there emotion come through when they say something, anything - unless they try hard not to - wanting to sound more authoritative like most males would, given certain situations.

If you female it sort of comes automatically, that "dialect" as you seem to call it...

Axélle

I can't think of anyplace where men and women speak in different dialects.  The word choice varies a lot, but the actual intonation of how one would say "peas", "hopper", or "I parked my car in Harvard yard" is the same regardless of gender.

OK - my tips are as follows:

Speak more clearly opening your mouth more. Men tend to mumble.

Don't use contractions

Men tend to start with a bang - "OK everyone - listen up" women tend to approach it more gradually "Can I have everyone's attention please"

Men issue orders, women use requests (see previous example)

Pay particular attention to the sounds for S and T. They are very different from males to females

Do not be "cool". "Yo man!" should be replaced by "Excuse me". Generally avoid colourful four-letter anglo-saxon words like sh*t, f**k, etc, etc. Whilst some woment do use them, most do not and they are considered very coarse when women use them.

As Axelle says, express emotion. "How are you today?" - male answer "OK", female answer "I feel good today"

That lot should get things moving in the right direction.

Quote from: Beverley on April 06, 2012, 09:24:21 AM
OK - my tips are as follows:

Speak more clearly opening your mouth more. Men tend to mumble.

Don't use contractions

Men tend to start with a bang - "OK everyone - listen up" women tend to approach it more gradually "Can I have everyone's attention please"

Men issue orders, women use requests (see previous example)

Pay particular attention to the sounds for S and T. They are very different from males to females

Do not be "cool". "Yo man!" should be replaced by "Excuse me". Generally avoid colourful four-letter anglo-saxon words like sh*t, f**k, etc, etc. Whilst some woment do use them, most do not and they are considered very coarse when women use them.

As Axelle says, express emotion. "How are you today?" - male answer "OK", female answer "I feel good today"

That lot should get things moving in the right direction.

Sounds more like the difference to how young women speak and old women.

Speak more clearly opening your mouth more. Men tend to mumble.
Don't use contractions
Men tend to start with a bang - "OK everyone - listen up" women tend to approach it more gradually "Can I have everyone's attention please"
Men issue orders, women use requests (see previous example)
Pay particular attention to the sounds for S and T. They are very different from males to females
Do not be "cool". "Yo man!" should be replaced by "Excuse me". Generally avoid colourful four-letter anglo-saxon words like sh*t, f**k, etc, etc. Whilst some woment do use them, most do not and they are considered very coarse when women use them.
As Axelle says, express emotion. "How are you today?" - male answer "OK", female answer "I feel good today"

Even if that is all true, (and it's not, my female bosses issue orders just like my male bosses do, the American Southern dialect is full of contractions used by both male and females, starting with Y'all) it has nothing to do with dialect unless you are using that word for something far different than it's common linguistic use - which is about pronunciation patterns and speeds.  So someone from New York will use far more words per minute in casual conversation than someone from Alabama, Mexican Spanish is much - mucho - faster than Continental Spanish.  There are regional word choices - is that a 'pop', 'soda', coke (used as a generic for all soft drinks in some areas), do you put your groceries in a 'bag', 'sack' or a 'poke' - but I'm not even sure that is true dialect, it's much more about how the words would be pronounced rather than the choice of word itself.

Quote from: Asfsd4214 on April 06, 2012, 09:28:54 AM
Sounds more like the difference to how young women speak and old women.

Yea... might be a generational thing...

But...

Don't use curse words? hehehe, umm... women use these quite a lot...... lol

It is a set of generalisations, there will always be exceptions. There are no hard and fast rules that cover every culture the world over.

- in general men curse and swear more than women.

- in general men mumble more than women.

and so on...

You just gotta be careful of falling into the trap of trying to live up to ideals of what you think women should be. (like with everything we do as we learn how women act).

Not trying to jump on you or anything Beverley :) Just something to be careful of.

Quote from: Rabbit on April 06, 2012, 10:25:04 AM
Not trying to jump on you or anything Beverley :) Just something to be careful of.

That is OK Rabbit - they are merely the guidelines I use (not hard and fast rules) and I know I pass in conversation. I have had too many conversations with strangers for their actions to be 'kindness' or 'chance'.

I would not call my vocalisation 100% female, but it is close enough for most people to accept it and that is all that matters to me.

Hugs

B.

Women enunciate more then men. They also put more stress on the end of sentences.

You should to a coffee shop or something and try to listen to girls talking and focus on how they talk and not what they say. It'll help both for your class and your transition.

I don't think sounding female has anything to do with what vocabulary is used.

Quote from: JenJen2011 on April 06, 2012, 03:22:15 PM
I don't think sounding female has anything to do with what vocabulary is used.

no kidding! my my wife who is very much a Nordic beauty can swear like a sailer and gets confused for a male sometimes when she is on a phone call with strangers with her sorta "kathleen turner" type deeper voice

Quote from: JenJen2011 on April 06, 2012, 03:22:15 PM
I don't think sounding female has anything to do with what vocabulary is used.

I see where you are coming from.

In this case however, I respectfully disagree.

Dialects are about how a person says things with their voice and their word choice.

If you were to use a Russian dialect, you could certainly speak everything like a Russian, but if you also dropped words like "A" and "The" you would be even more convincing.

"Excuse me, I am looking for a moose and a squirrel."

Or

"Where is moose and squirrel?"

Which reads more Russian?

Of course, this is not universal. It is not black and white. It is a generalization.

In general, woman speak in a more melodic tone than men. In general, they speak in a higher pitch... etc.

I did some reading and did manage to find one rather isolated place in the world that linguists have found where the men and women actually speak in different dialects, rather interesting.  Though having one exception tends to prove rules rather than undermine them.

Quote from: tekla on April 06, 2012, 09:12:24 AM
I can't think of anyplace where men and women speak in different dialects.  The word choice varies a lot, but the actual intonation of how one would say "peas", "hopper", or "I parked my car in Harvard yard" is the same regardless of gender.

When were you last in the San Fernando Valley?

Quote from: Beverley on April 06, 2012, 09:24:21 AM
OK - my tips are as follows:

Speak more clearly opening your mouth more. Men tend to mumble.

Don't use contractions

Men tend to start with a bang - "OK everyone - listen up" women tend to approach it more gradually "Can I have everyone's attention please"

Men issue orders, women use requests (see previous example)

Pay particular attention to the sounds for S and T. They are very different from males to females

Do not be "cool". "Yo man!" should be replaced by "Excuse me". Generally avoid colourful four-letter anglo-saxon words like sh*t, f**k, etc, etc. Whilst some woment do use them, most do not and they are considered very coarse when women use them.

As Axelle says, express emotion. "How are you today?" - male answer "OK", female answer "I feel good today"

That lot should get things moving in the right direction.

I don't know. Most of the women I work with at Valeo sound like men according to this. And I know the other female tech I work with even walks like a guy. o.O I am definitely living in the wrong place to people watch. lol

I think the op was meaning speech patterns rather than dialects, even though dialect was the noun used. There are interesting sections in Wiki on difference s in male -female vocal patterns. Interesting comment from Tekla in that there is at least one difference in male/female dialects. From memory in the UK, which used to have very distinct regional dialects and even language, there were male and female words that would not be used by the opposite gender. This was true in Scouse and I think in Geordie.
Exposure to TV has had an enormous effect on language and I would not be surprised if the English speaking world have Hollywoodism as the basic language.

Quote from: tekla on April 07, 2012, 02:03:29 AM
I did some reading and did manage to find one rather isolated place in the world that linguists have found where the men and women actually speak in different dialects, rather interesting.  Though having one exception tends to prove rules rather than undermine them.

In America's deep South, men tend to talk from their throats and women speak in a nasal tone. They still pronounce words basically the same though.

Where is this place you refer to?

Quote from: Cindy James on April 07, 2012, 02:21:10 AM
I think the op was meaning speech patterns rather than dialects, even though dialect was the noun used. There are interesting sections in Wiki on difference s in male -female vocal patterns. Interesting comment from Tekla in that there is at least one difference in male/female dialects. From memory in the UK, which used to have very distinct regional dialects and even language, there were male and female words that would not be used by the opposite gender. This was true in Scouse and I think in Geordie.
Exposure to TV has had an enormous effect on language and I would not be surprised if the English speaking world have Hollywoodism as the basic language.

No, I am talking about dialects... not jut speech patterns... but I understand why you would think that. Women speak in London dialects, New York dialects, French... etc. So do men.  The word dialect is not perfect but I am trying to stretch the term for my class.

I am taking a dialect class (my Cockney rocks!) and our final project is to teach a dialect we have learned on our own, to the rest of the class.

Yes, I am using the term "dialect" loosely here... and I would need to have my project approved by the Professor (which may not happen... because by definition, a dialect is regional). But I am looking at ways to teach actors how to speak like a female. You may be surprised to learn how often actors are cast in another gender. Especially when an actor has to play several roles in a single play. Actors are often cast as animals and other bizarre things too.

So generalities are accepted by me.

Us actors start with a general dialect and them modify it based on our character's specific traits, education, social role... etc.

Quote from: Tori on April 07, 2012, 02:42:19 AM
No, I am talking about dialects... not jut speech patterns... but I understand why you would think that. Women speak in London dialects, New York dialects, French... etc. So do men.  The word dialect is not perfect but I am trying to stretch the term for my class.

I am taking a dialect class (my Cockney rocks!) and our final project is to teach a dialect we have learned on our own, to the rest of the class.

Yes, I am using the term "dialect" loosely here... and I would need to have my project approved by the Professor (which may not happen... because by definition, a dialect is regional). But I am looking at ways to teach actors how to speak like a female. You may be surprised to learn how often actors are cast in another gender. Especially when an actor has to play several roles in a single play. Actors are often cast as animals and other bizarre things too.

So generalities are accepted by me.

Us actors start with a general dialect and them modify it based on our character's specific traits, education, social role... etc.

OK thanks Tori for the explanation, and sorry for missing your name BTW

Well, how did Will Shakespeare go about it? All of his actors would have been male, but he wrote male and female parts quite specifically, and that he and his society expected to understand that a specific actor was male or female was important. Even as far as Cleopatra from Mark Anthony, and I presume they were sexed up roles then as well, even more so I expect.

Again in pantomime acting, (lord this is going back many years) the dame was always a male character dressed as a female and the leading 'man' was always a female playing a guy. The audience never seemed to have a problem with this dichotomy, indeed it was understood that it was part of the performance.

So from these points I would suggest that the female/ male character influence is not presented on dialect or speech patterns but on visual disguise and presentation. Just recalling the film, Victor/Victoria, I forget the name of the actress (Julie Andrews?), she was obviously female in both characters and made no attempt to alter her voice, but the concept of the film was to fool the film characters that this person was either male or female and that the 'virile' male lead could be fooled.

So possibly for your treatise change the question. How and why are actors expected to convince an audience of their characters gender (or even sexuality). It is broader but more focussed.

Good Luck

Cindy

Quote from: Cindy James on April 07, 2012, 03:06:27 AM

OK thanks Tori for the explanation, and sorry for missing your name BTW

Well, how did Will Shakespeare go about it? All of his actors would have been male, but he wrote male and female parts quite specifically, and that he and his society expected to understand that a specific actor was male or female was important. Even as far as Cleopatra from Mark Anthony, and I presume they were sexed up roles then as well, even more so I expect.

Again in pantomime acting, (lord this is going back many years) the dame was always a male character dressed as a female and the leading 'man' was always a female playing a guy. The audience never seemed to have a problem with this dichotomy, indeed it was understood that it was part of the performance.

So from these points I would suggest that the female/ male character influence is not presented on dialect or speech patterns but on visual disguise and presentation. Just recalling the film, Victor/Victoria, I forget the name of the actress (Julie Andrews?), she was obviously female in both characters and made no attempt to alter her voice, but the concept of the film was to fool the film characters that this person was either male or female and that the 'virile' male lead could be fooled.

So possibly for your treatise change the question. How and why are actors expected to convince an audience of their characters gender (or even sexuality). It is broader but more focussed.

Good Luck

Cindy

Thank you Cindy, for your thoughtful reply.

:)

It is thought Shakespearian plays cast young and/or effeminate men in the female roles (at least the romantic ones... The Nurse in Romeo and Juliette was probably played by a big man for comic effect).

The pantomimes you speak about were also, cast that way for comic reasons. A man can easily bring out the absurdity of being female and vice versa.

Victor/Victoria is a tough one. It is Julie Andrews and she can't physically lower her voice too much. A man can raise his voice easier and with more resonance than a woman can lower hers. Make-up and text had to do much of the work. Interesting film, by the way.

I still think a man can learn to speak like a woman... and, for actors, this "dialect" comes around as frequently as Irish, Canadian, or French.

So you mean a female accent? Example:

Male voices tend to be more monotone with volume over pitch used for emphasis. Female voices tend to be less monotone ("sing-song") with pitch over volume used for emphasis. In my little part of the word, female voices have a big increase in pitch at the ends of sentences / fragments of speech - this is common to all the "valley girl" accents. The male version of the Ottawa Valley accent doesn't include this.

Male voices tend to be more staccato with breaks between the words. Female voices tend to "flow," with words slurring slightly one into the next.

Male voices tend to resonate in the chest. Female voices tend to resonate in the head. (Actually, after pitch this is the single most important cue we use for gendering a voice.)

That kind of thing?

Here, this document has a list of the differences in male and female voices:

http://vch.eduhealth.ca/PDFs/GA/GA.100.C362.pdf