Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I was talking with a very good friend of mine recently, and he was telling me about some of the "grief" he was getting from certain Christian fundamentalist friends(that i used to also be on positive terms with, once in a life ago...) - In any case, it appears as though this is an unforgiveable sin, abomination, etc.,etc., add nauseum, etc...

Part of the conversation as i understood it, had to do with "how do you deal with someone like that, (like me, for instance), that is 'now' become or is trying to 'become' a totally or completely "different" person...

The thought that came was brilliantly clear to me, and probably one of the best things i have been able to fully express since i began transition, simply because it was so simple. 

I said "It has nothing to do with becoming a (completely) different person.
It's the very same person that was there all along.
There's just more of that person (me) now visible, to everyone else (myself included) than there ever was before. 

Lovingly always,

Sincerely,


ChefAnnagirl

Good thought.

And a reply to the question, "Do you think God made a mistake?" can be, "No, God doesn't make mistakes.  He makes transsexuals for the same reason he makes cerebral palsey and spina bifida babies, to teach you and me the Second Commandment of Christ - Love your neighbor as yourself; i.e., unconditional love."

I've never had to use that; so I don't know what a fundie's reaction would be.

Robyn

Interestingly, I recently put a similar sentiment into a coming out letter,

QuoteIt is important to me that you know I am not changing who I really am, but that I am changing who everyone else thinks I am.

Our change in gender presentation, because people treat men and women so differently, must feel to people that the entire person/mind/personality that they once knew have irrevocably changed.  That their old friend/family member/lover isn't there anymore.  And the difference is magnified because the liberating effect of finally living life the way you feel can, and often does, change some parts of our personalities. 

I think it's hard to get people to realize that we're essentially the same person but in a different package.

hugs & smiles
helen

Quote from: Robyn on March 30, 2007, 09:32:46 PM
Good thought.

And a reply to the question, "Do you think God made a mistake?" can be, "No, God doesn't make mistakes.  He makes transsexuals for the same reason he makes cerebral palsey and spina bifida babies, to teach you and me the Second Commandment of Christ - Love your neighbor as yourself; i.e., unconditional love."

I've never had to use that; so I don't know what a fundie's reaction would be.

Robyn

Adamantly respectfully, I do not concur.

Vehemently so.

That hypothesis necessarily implies that God purposely deforms individuals and purposely inflicts suffering in order to achieve a specific purpose.

To do so is necessarily evil and God cannot be the author or inflicter of evil, or God cannot be God [divine attributes].

God doesn't make mistakes nor visits evil purposely upon some poor individuals; ultimately all of the imperfection and suffering that exists in the world, that has existed in the world since the dawn of time, was caused by man.

God is love and necessarily must be all good and only capable of good; purposely inducing suffering in human beings is not only evil, but ghastly.

If God is capable of evil, we who seek Him and endeavor to follow Him in faith are worse than fools and really have no hope.

--Rhonda

hmmmmmm.....

Rhonda. You surprise me. I know that you have a truly good if not great intellect, and you are obviously very deeply passionate about your personal beliefs where this subject is concerned, but i will ask that you be willing to temper your passion as to allow for other's countless myriad of differing experiences, and how each one of us - all the same yet completly different than all the rest at the same moment - every single moment - we can all arrive at the same place, yet we may all use slightly different means to get there, if you look at the whole of humanity, and the billions of differing perspectives as it now stands. 

In other words, once you purport to actually know something, and are so certain of it that you will defend it or pronounce it so vehemently, seemingly ruling out all other potential possibilities as fallacy, (thus also directly challenging the personal experiences and differing perspectives of billions of other people that you haven't actually ever met, nor lived in their minds and souls and understood exactly their own perspective - from their own perspective.

And thus, i so must challenge thee, fair sister, to a duel of intellect, where this particular subject is concerrrrrned. This is not a personal attack, not at all - for i love thee most dearly in thy passion and thy intellect - but i used these words to challenge you to think about what you are saying.

I will take the first shot by starting with some of my personal perspective on the issue of pain in relation to personal growth, 'success' in any form of perception as directly related, and/or what could be considered any sort of actual evolvement or growth towards more positive states of being, both within ourselves and with others, as well as the environment which we all share... 

Ok - "who here hasn't suffered some extreme form of pain and deep personal suffering ? - ok - c'mon folks, let me see those hands - go on - raise em' up - i know you're out there - aw c'mon let me see just a couple -  oh well - must be a really quiet audience tonight or something....


The question is, have humans in general benefited more from the lessons of great strength often  obtained only by such incredible suffering, or would it have been better if no one out there had simply never made a mistake or learned the lessons of poverty and anguish and torture and killing by the thousandfold.   

My perspective - Yes. I have. at least as far as most of my pain is concerned. My pain is not inconsiderable - neither is yours nor anyone else's out there that may read this - But without that which broke me down - it forced parts of me to adapt - become stronger - wiser - more effective as a communicator - because i UNDERSTAND people and often many motivations that most keep well hidden from others and even themselves. My pain gave me perspectives on the world and God and life and possibilites that likely would never have been otherwise for me. I cannot "prove" that to you, or anyone else, via some sort of empiric evidence, but i can tell you about my personal experience, what it means to me, and how that experience has shaped my perspective to be entirely different in some ways than yours.

Does that necessarily make me incorrect ? - i think that would be far too summarily judged from only a single perspective if i am to take your particular route on this subject, based on what you have expressed. 

I do not believe in my case that God or spirit or anyone else made a horrible cosmic mistake, nor do i consider my dysphoria to be a mischance, aberration, or other form of "unnatural" occurrence in any way - in fact - almost the exact opposite in almost every way i can think of. I consider myself to be a deeply spiritual person, but have never, and will likely never, be a religious one... If i hadnt been given the gift of this perspective i wouldnt be the person that i am becoming today, no matter the cost in pain and anguish to me - as far as i am concerned it was worth it thus far. Would i like to repeat it - no - the injured and unconditionally loving and open child within still screaming NOOOOOOOO - not if possible - although transition has seemed to force a repeat and many uncannily direct parallels to many of the same sufferings and torments of childhood - of always being "different" than everyone else...

Again now, as then, i am learning incredible and deeply invaluable things about myself and others that would have likely never otherwise occured if not for the much of the pain, and the JOY and the consequences of my a). naturally occcuring makeup as a human being in this life since birth, and; B.) my choices and actions now as directly relates to that issue - of openly living in society as best i can possibly manage, as a transgendered woman - and once again inviting the hatred and ill and evil of others to surface just by the simply unhindered honest self expression of the very nature of my existence -  but this time -  this time, i can hopefully look it right dead in the eyes and not cower or run away. I may even be able to actually help DO something about those fuc#ers, this time.

A good poison pen in one hand and an openly and powerfully loving heart in the other can be some pretty good ammunition if used intelligently against the slime that infests our planet with their sickness and hatred.

That being said, it seems to me, as i reflect within and on myself, and about how i have percievd the world i have lived in all of my life thus far - my world - that pain and suffering is the primary impetus for growth and evolvement, and so therefore in some way, gives rise to the thought that it is possible, no matter how remote, that "evil" has thus far been a necessary part of the growth of the human race. If we do not continue to evolve and grow and adapt and tap into more of our untapped potentials - we will likely fail as a species, or be knocked so far back into the stone age that we'll be sprinting just to catch back up to the cockroaches at some point 

I believe, that there is still all of the invisible still yet to become visible as we human beings imagine, dream, visualize, and attempt to actualize that which has inspired us most to improve ourselves and learn to better care for others. Great thinkers and inspired physicians, and great builders of incredible works - the works of love and great sacrifice by those that do and have TRULY cared for their fellow man - of artists that have inspired and transfixed us with the gaze of their incredible view of beauty in life - in all things that have that are still possible and possibly yet to occur - and how it can be so movingly expressed.

These things have had a desire to an end of pain and suffering amongst fellow humans as their primary impetus. Anything to create solace, and warmth, and comfort from suffering is what has largely fuled our entire development as a civilaization.

Freezing cold and suffering to death in a snow filled cave ? - must learn how to harness fire. Can't wait 8 weeks to get a message about a sick or dying loved one far away - invent a telegrpah to carry the message in 30 seconds - can't stand all the prejudice and hatred and war and vicious, backstabbing,
over-agendized lying people every single place we turn now ? -  then create dialogue and forums on the internet and expand people's awareness by example of love and openess to all positively and intelligently expressed perspectives, no matter how oblique. Publish even greater works of love and understanding to combat the ills.

My perception is that there is still far too little genuine caring - far too little genuine love and unconditional forgiveness and acceptance -  far too little real truth and fairness - and that we are in big trouble as a species. There is pain still mounting and yet to be had in great abundance by humans, and some of those lessons will (hopefully)teach us, how to rise to the next levels of awareness and forgiveness and progress more in balance with all that is - whatever may or may not be left of ourselves, each other, and our living medium, the Earth by that point.

Could be next week, could be a billion weeks from now and by then we're 10,000 years gone when it happens. Me, personally, I Hope not - i'd like to be here to see the next major shift occur -

Sure, the landings were usually quite painful as HELL for all of us, but we'd certainly (hopefully - because we learned invaluable lessons of compassion, heroic lessons in sacrifice, in deep tormented pain, aloneness,  suffering, and also in the greatest of all joys - often lasting elation in the discovery and recovery of healing knowledege of any form we have learned) - maybe - just maybe know what NOT to do the next time(if there is one) (or at least attempt to prevent it - better than inaction i believe) - right ?

Maybe not. If i said i was dead sure all the way and for anyone else especially, i'd be lying.

Without such ill and evil in the world as we have known - all the vicious things you could ever possibly list  - These things often gave people the chance - the opportunity - the obligation - to stand in the breach and do something about it. I have suffered deep and hard in a bunch of ways, and pretty darned sure i got some more comin' too, - maybe even some from this post - (maybe i'll look back in a year from now and say "sheeesh - you coulda done a lot better than that crap - omfg).

But it taught me - after years, it taught me ill and hatred and anger and negativity and limiting perspectives and complete and total self disempowerment and self destruction - not at first in my childhood, no matter how open i tried to be - and I TRIED - for a long time - until about age 13, then i became the worst freakin ->-bleeped-<- nightmare of a teenage "male" you have ever seen in your life. I had been taught and filled with a teaching of hatred and negativity and illness within my own being.

That spilth of evil and crap caused me enough pain that i was willing, even very much younger in life, to desperately yet determinedly once again begin to seek the exact opposite within myself and others, and find the possibility of solace and solutions within myself to be just the opposite of all the crap and evil negative BULL*#IT i have been fed from others all my life.

It gave me perspective into people's motivations and gave me the strength i need RIGHT NOW - to make it through all of this, and hopefully contribute something positive to others along the way. If i hate god and all those that have ever been so cruel and negative, what will i have left to give for myself much less anyone else - then i become just like the hate again.
 
I believe in Karmic cause and effect. What goes around, comes around - whether we like it or not and whether it comes tomorrow or next week - but rest assured - it will and does come - good or bad. We are the only things - the only beings - that we know of for sure - that can ultimately use our freedom of choice and our own powerfully truthful freewill, no matter the cost - to create something else positive out of it.

Now i'm not sure about God and I'm not sure about the devil, but, If in my belief, God is, in fact, all that is - then whatever negativity - evil if you will, MUST exist as a necessity of precipitating growth for the higher functioning beings such as humans - a.) potentially higher functioning, and; b.) in relation to other forms of life such as say,.... a jellyfish) - all life forms seem to experience conflict and struggle for survival. Humans are the only ones that regularly enact this in the form of evil and williful hatred and maliciousness on others with the depressing efficiency that we have learned to do so well.

If "God" is in IN everyone, or to say that everyone and all we know and see in the universe as we percieve it - is "God" - then this "evil" must have been inherent in the program, and therefore accounted for somehow in the balance, as we - as I - still struggle daily for deeper and more positive self-understanding (and therefore naturally, of others as well) ... 

I think - is it possible that we may have moved far enough from the reptile brain of pure violent kill or be killed instinct - that we may now, for the first time - actually be close enough (through pain and experience) posess enough potential awareness of our OWN CHOICE to affect the way we evolve, and, that this state of growth was precipitated by the pain of survival and conflict - a necessary part of survival of any species - the survival of the fittest ? Natural selection does and will occur in my opinion.

The lion does not care how she or he catches and kills their prey - they will just do it from necessity for survival. People have created entire cultures based on principles of cruelty and domination by taking the survival instinct and twisting it into something that is no longer pure, nor is it any longer necessary.

The animal may be horrified for it's life - just as anyone or anything that passes form life in any way - no matter how horrible or criminal - the end result is the same - even if only for just a moment - who knows...

So maybe, as we have finally begun to grow up a little - maybe even enough to outgrow it a little now - as a race in the whole, within the last eyeblink say, of ten or twenty thousand years or so....maybe - just maybe. Maybe we can in fact bring what we need from the invisible - the place of all unrealized potentials i think within every single one of us may still in fact posess the ability to access - make it visible - make it real -

People dreamed up ways to kill, torture, manipulate, mislead, become prejudiced towards, and then hate and kill each other by the millionfold and for thousands of years now - pure survival instinct gone amok -- if we can dream of doing all of those things, many if not most in the almighty name of "god" in whatever form you may believe him/her/it/collective/none - and make them a miserable example of what our capabilities as a race actually are,
 
so then,

why cant we dream of other things including making as the true image of "God" - the UNCONDITIONALLY and powerfully loving one - whatever version you like - call it karmic energy in it's purest kinetic form - within ourselves and all of our untapped capabilities ?  Didn't Jesus supposedly say something along the lines of soemthing like that himself  - something about - "all of these things i have done, all of you can do and so much more ? why set an example that can never be met.

The message was delivered, pure and simple - just not too many folks got it - or they did and it scared the living sh-- out of the status quo - and also quickly taught them how to use the same influence on the masses while we were at it - thus - we created religions that have sparked more bloodshed and hateful criminal violence in the supposed name of "God" and "love" and righteous justification. The sheep follow, and then become the mob authority of more hatred...

If we can first imagine - and then learn how to create everything we now take for granted in our "Modern" environment, all of our advancements as a race - ALL of them,  why can't we imagine all of the things we think are impossible - including the existence of a god that we rage about that would intentionally make people suffer.

I dont think a collective intelligence as large as this would have much interest in doling out such cruelty -
think of this example from a strictly "Karmic standpoint" : If you were a parent and you (instinctively)wanted your children to learn about how to be a really good person, the VERY BEST person(people) that they could possibly be -(survival of the fittest and therefore the greatest potential for growth evolvement, adaptability under the harshest of all social conditions -  and therefore, hopefully survival of the species).

With that in mind, as a good parent,  -  would you then attempt to protect them from all dangers, never ever let them make painful and difficult mistakes - never let them take the hit because you knew they needed to learn a good lesson - i'd say you were an insanely bad parent - or to teach of some force outside of ourselves that would magically somehow make it all perfect, mistake free, and pain free from start to finish - What the hell good would be the point in that, if a species must first grow and evolve and adpat itself in order to actually survive it's OWN self. (as in the case of humans, for example).

if they were provided free will of choice, simply as the independant beings that they inherently are by nature, yet still unavoidably interconnected with all others in one way or another - could you protect them from themselves once the power was consciously realized of fully having free will of choice as the simple most freeing for some and the most confining for others ?

If free will is compelled in any way other than of it's own development, it is never free will. Yes - maybe cruel - but it sure as hell works to get people to grow up a little faster sometimes - things like war and starvation usually make good motivational factors to find God inside real fast and do something - anything necessary to survive.

In any case, what say you, to all of this ?

Lovingly and most respectfully always,

LoveForever,

Sincerely,


Annagirl

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:!!!

...listening to "Hearts of Space - 'Distant Spirits'" - Native American cedar flute...

That is so beautiful, so ethereal.

Yours was the first which was read; I'll will answer this more at length later on today; I had awakened earlier than desired [04:31 EDT], got a splitting headache, very tired[a long but good day on the Flightline, but walking on the same in frigid temperatures and through 25-30MPH winds, saps the strength rapidly - and I've got a long day working fuel system circuits ahead of me, today], I haven't had my coffee.....

But nonetheless, I will have a blessed day today.  :)

I'm printing a hard copy of yours to carry with me, during the workday today; I will defer responding until later today.

Surely though, you did not perceive mine as being an actual attack, did you? Passionate yes, but I am not a mean nor vicious woman.

Not at all. I have my moments to be sure with anger and bitterness, but still....

One can vehemently, passionately disagree with another and still love that person,

One can vehemently, passionately disagree with another and in no way, intend the same to be a personal attack,

Given, sweetie, that there is nothing more profoundly important than that which concerns matters spiritual and matters which have bearing upon the continuance and destiny of the self beyond the mere corporeal mode of our existence, the passion is appropriate, hon.

Physical death is merely a translation of state, from the corporeal mode of existence to that of the spiritual, eternal and final mode of one's total existence. Once that this translation occurs, there is no going back to attempt to rectify past errors--and many of those errors have grave eternal consequences.

Error kills, has killed, both corporeally and spiritually; in this present mode of existence corrections and rectifications can be made and implemented, ironically perhaps moreso spiritually than many of these which concern matters of this present physical mode of existence. This is not something that you want to 'get wrong.'

There is far more to 'life' than that which constitutes the visible and the palpable. It is actually something of a moral imperative that we love each other and care about each other.

Perhaps, moreso for us, for in many cases we who are transsexual are the only family that we now have...

But let me gently ask you, "If you were cognizant of a grave threat which could destroy another, would you not be passionate yourself over the same?"

One can stand with total conviction and not be bellicose nor malevolent.

Would you not concur that not enough people in this world are passionate enough to stand by unwaveringly in their conviction, stand by what they know to be true and proper and right?

If you are fundamentally a 'woman of conscience' [speaking rhetorically, generally], you cannot act in contravention of conscience without inflicting great psychological and emotional pain upon yourself.

I mean nobody any disrespect.  :)

And I am nobody special by any means, but do you know what, honey? Personally speaking, after barely surviving 40+ years under the combined duress of intense TS, ADHD and secondary serious cognitive and emotional anomalies, I deserve to settle for nothing less than a positive ultimate eternal destiny.

But more later, my sweet and fine sister. You have a blessed day.

I will.  :)

You are - wonderful....

Truly no anger, malice, nor offense intended from me to you, nor did i take your posting in such a way at all either - such jibes by me as were meant in entirely good, even if entirely serious, and thoughtfully expressed, spirit of positive dialogue and debate.

My thoughts and feelings were triggered by your posting, and in entirely good faith as to your true, and necessarily deadly serious passion and intentions.

Understanding of no malice or inconsideration aforethought on your part.
and - I think you are special, and that we all have the capability to be thus - whether you can or will acknowledge that for yourself or not.

That is my perspective, and since it is mine, valid for me in this moment.

Lovingly always,
LoveForever,

Most Kindly and respectfully yours,



Annagirl

I still intend to address your dissertation hon.  :)

Life has been...oh, how shall I say it?

Psychotic, lately.

I do not recall any previous year as being as 'action-packed' as 2007 has been so far--and it is not even halfway over! :o

Good Grief!!!