Susan's Place Transgender Resources

There's some thoughts rattling around in my head that I want out.

I said I wasn't going to worry about gender anymore, but I am.  It's not like I don't have anything better to do, but I get so insecure I can't stop.  Last week I mentioned to a friend that I'm androgyne, and got the inevitable barrage of questions... I had to explain what it is, and then try to justify why I think I am one.  The friend wasn't too hard on me actually, but that sort of thing tends to rattle me enough that I start questioning myself.

I've been brainwashed by the binaries for 30 years, and only found out about alternatives less than 4 months ago, so I'm still getting used to it.  I keep thinking, sooo many people are happy with calling themselves male or female... what's so special about me that makes me think I can call myself a gender nobody's ever heard of?  How could I be such a weird gender if I don't feel weird?

I have an answer for that.  Of course I don't feel weird; I've been me my whole life, so I'm used to it.  But of course that doesn't really answer anything.  I still could be male.  I thought I was male until this year, how could I be wrong about that?  It's pretty ridiculous to be wrong about my own gender... but I thought I was male before, and I think I'm androgyne now, and I haven't changed, so obviously I've been wrong at least once.

When I get tired of being confused, I think about something more tangible:  I don't like my body.  I'm pretty sure I saw somebody somewhere say something like "that doesn't mean anything, nobody likes their body" ...either that or I'm going insane and a voice in my head said it.  Anyway, of course I have the standard things that everybody complains about:  acne, moles, a weird little lump of fat on my belly, stuff like that.  But if I had a choice between magically becoming a flawless specimen of manhood, or keeping all my flaws but being made androgynous, I'd go for androgynous without hesitation.  Looking like a man really bothers me.  Looking like a woman would too.

I think, so what?  People can like the androgynous look and not be androgynes, right?  Grrr, I need to shut up and leave myself alone already!  But it doesn't happen.  Why does this even matter so much?  Some people would argue that it's best to avoid labels and just be "me", but just being me is so lonely.. sometimes it's comforting to share an identity with others.  There's so much variation among androgynes that I can't relate to a lot of you, but I suppose that's true of any gender identity.

Writing this has calmed me down, and I'm not feeling so insecure anymore.  I'm taking a good look at myself and my life, and what I know about gender, and I keep coming to the same conclusion:  I'm an androgyne, darn it!  But I think I'd fold like a house of cards if I had to explain why I feel that way to the majority of people out there in the big bad world... so I keep hiding who I am, but I don't wanna!  :'(

I need a hug.

Aww *hug* :)

Yeah, that makes sense.

Quote from: BlueSloth on May 01, 2012, 03:50:11 AM
But I think I'd fold like a house of cards if I had to explain why I feel that way to the majority of people out there in the big bad world...

I think the above quote ties into the question in your thread. In my opinion the question isn't one you have to answer; it's one which, in an ideal world, others would not feel the need to ask.

I don't claim to know how you feel, but I understand that you do know how you feel. And in that, no explanation is necessary. That you are who you are and express that in the way which feels most appropriate to you, that's enough.

Perhaps, in time, there will come a point where you don't have to explain yourself. I can only hope for that, and that you find some peace within yourself.

Quote from: BlueSloth on May 01, 2012, 03:50:11 AM
what's so special about me that makes me think I can call myself a gender nobody's ever heard of?  How could I be such a weird gender if I don't feel weird?

How many times have I said the same thing to myself since I started classifying myself? Of course we are special. Everyone is. Some people need adaptive shoes. Some people need gluten free bread. Some people need hypoalergenics.

We need our own gender.

Quote from: BlueSloth on May 01, 2012, 03:50:11 AM
I still could be male.  I thought I was male until this year, how could I be wrong about that?  It's pretty ridiculous to be wrong about my own gender... but I thought I was male before, and I think I'm androgyne now, and I haven't changed, so obviously I've been wrong at least once.

Thought this many times, but never heard it put quite so well.

Quote from: BlueSloth on May 01, 2012, 03:50:11 AM
I don't like my body.  I'm pretty sure I saw somebody somewhere say something like "that doesn't mean anything, nobody likes their body"

Actually, I think most men do like their body, or at least don't think about it much. One of the clearer indications that I'm not "all man" was my feelings about my body. I had a bout of anorexia in my 20's, something rare among men (except athletes who need to lose weight to compete).

Quote from: BlueSloth on May 01, 2012, 03:50:11 AM
But I think I'd fold like a house of cards if I had to explain why I feel that way to the majority of people out there in the big bad world... so I keep hiding who I am, but I don't wanna!  :'(

Great piece of advice I came across somewhere: "Never explain. Your friends don't need it and your enemies won't believe you." Of course that leaves everyone else. I suppose that's where the problem is. Luckily we don't OWE them an explanation. They are lucky if we deem them worthy of bestowing one upon them.

Quote from: BlueSloth on May 01, 2012, 03:50:11 AM
I need a hug.

Consider yourself cyberhugged!

It's the best I can do.

They are lucky if we deem them worthy of bestowing one upon them.

Too right!

How you feel is how you feel. I'm not sure there always is an explanation. I've never heard someone convincingly explain why they feel male or female either...

Can't see into each others' heads. At some point we just have to take it on faith that you know you better than anyone else is going to.

I'm always up for  a :icon_hug:.

What makes you so especial is that: "You are the only one!!!"

Quote from: Sarah7 on May 01, 2012, 10:41:31 AM
How you feel is how you feel. I'm not sure there always is an explanation. I've never heard someone convincingly explain why they feel male or female either...

Hehe, yeah.  I think it bothers people that I went from calling myself male to calling myself androgyne, and that contributes to their wanting an explanation.  But that's no fair; I didn't even know the word androgyne until this year.

I think what I worry most about is somebody not believing in androgynes at all and thinking I'm just making a big fuss over nothing.  I don't want to make a fuss at all, I don't like fusses, but it's either that or get misgendered.

Have you ever considered that you have a philosophy of life that allows you to disregard gender?
That would work for me.  Currently I would describe myself as  "Genderqueer, Femme, Trans Dyke",  but that could change too.

Karen.

To answer the title of the thread, what makes you so special is that you are you. Just as everyone else is special because they are them.
Honestly though, I wish my "friends" would ask me about myself. Instead, they ignore or deny anything I try to tell them about myself.

Quote from: justmeinoz on May 02, 2012, 06:14:45 AM
Have you ever considered that you have a philosophy of life that allows you to disregard gender?

That works for me too. But then that makes sense since I'm essentially lacking a gender identity. And I have a very strong sense of my physical sex identity as female, which simplifies things. I feel a bit awkward whenever gender comes up like in conversation or in social conventions or whatever, but otherwise it doesn't seem to make much difference. It was worse when I was earlier in transition and had to have conversations about my clothes and presentation and listen to people telling me how feminine my behaviour is, but that's stopped now.

I don't think it works for everyone though. Some people really seem to need recognition of who they are from the people around them. And that can be pretty difficult for non-binaries.

Quote from: justmeinoz on May 02, 2012, 06:14:45 AM
Have you ever considered that you have a philosophy of life that allows you to disregard gender?

Hmmmm.

I do believe very deeply that all categories, including gender, are arbitrary and only exist for our own convenience (actually I go a lot further than that, but that's beside the point).  But the universe is complex enough that without that extra convenience, our minds wouldn't be able to function at all.

Maybe I could get by without gender, but I don't think I want to.

Finding out 4 months ago that I don't have to call myself male really stirred things up in my mind and confused me for a while, and I was craving stability and certainty enough that the intangible nature of gender panicked me a bit.  Exposure to the well established binary dogma still unsettles me, especially since I'm so submissive and eager to placate people when I'm feeling vulnerable.  But I've been settling down and having more an more moments of clarity during which I'm confident that I do have a gender, and it's androgyne (and I don't mean that as an umbrella term that includes bigender and genderfluid and whatnot, I mean it as a specific gender identity).

Quote from: Sarah7 on May 02, 2012, 10:29:51 AM
I don't think it works for everyone though. Some people really seem to need recognition of who they are from the people around them. And that can be pretty difficult for non-binaries.

Yeah.  I can't think of a logical reason for it....  to paraphrase... umm.. somebody (Pica Pica maybe?), anybody who knows me well is going to know me anyway whether I give them a gender label or not.  But imagine how well something like that would go over for most FTMs or MTFs.  It's not good enough for them, and it feels like it may not be good enough for me.  Which is a scary thought, actually..

Quote from: justmeinoz on May 02, 2012, 06:14:45 AM
Have you ever considered that you have a philosophy of life that allows you to disregard gender?
Karen.

I think I had that for a while when I was younger. In college, it was a lot easier to ignore gender. It was the free-wheeling 70's and we had coed dorms and coed bathrooms, and I had a lot of friends that were women. Fast forward 30 years, and most everyone I know is the member of a couple. A friendship between a (apparently) male member of one couple and a female member of another couple drags in myriad complications. They exist (my best friend's husband seems fine with all this, as does my wife) but it's making for a bit of a lonely existence on my part. My main goal for acknowledging the dual nature of my gender identity is to expand the opportunity for my male self to find female style friendships (confidences shared, support given, emotions expressed, etc.) with whomever they can happen.

Ha! We are a special kind of people that defy the norms of society, a societal construct that is in question of it's own existence.

As was explained on these boards long ago, we live in the forest between the cities of male and female. It's a nice place for them to visit (so long as they respect it) and it is a better place for many of us to live. There are an unlimited number of places where one can be, both as visitor and as resident (I have a tree house myself, lol).
There are paths that go by many names and terms and labels, some for the same path itself. Point is, all of these paths can lead to anywhere within the forest. They intersect at many points along the way.
It is a special place, as is admitted by many (some just visitors). Yep, it's all an imaginary place to most others. Therefore nonexistent. As many of them have claimed. They can't see the forest for the trees. They lack the imagination to see anything that is not what they believe they are made of. Their minds are made up. Closed to any other possibility.

It makes us special. We can define ourselves in broad sweeping terms. Most others can't. They are stuck with binary defines that are restrictive at best, that are hard to live up to. We are free of those shackles of gender. It makes us special.

Each in our own way, because we are not confined to a so called norm. Yes you are special. Indeed, you are special.

Ativan

@Ativan:

I'm new, so I don't know the etiquette of personal questions, but are you a professional writer?

You always produce such interesting, vivid, metaphors for thing that otherwise defy explanation.

Quote from: Ativan on May 05, 2012, 12:27:26 PM
We live in the forest between the cities of male and female.

I love living in that in-between forest. I love this forum so much. It lets me explore it with people who know its trails, thickets, vistas and mires.

But people who live in the binary cities, not only haven't they been here, they don't even believe this forest exists. It's tempting to say, well "what good are they?" but that throws away valuable souls we might otherwise get to know.

If I'm permitted a Seussian metaphor, it's like Horton the elephant trying to get the rest of the world to believe that whoville is real. What can we show them, tell them, where can we bring them, in the flow of casual conversation that will make this forest real for them?

What's with that "us vs them" attitude?

Quote from: Edge on May 06, 2012, 11:06:09 AM
What's with that "us vs them" attitude?

Wow, Edge. Great question.

You highlight the struggle I feel to get others (The "them" I've become so preoccupied with?) to see and treat me as I feel inside. Pardon the unloading of strong emotion, but I'm sooooo frustrated when females assume I can't understand and relate to them as a female because of the way I'm constructed and a bit tired of choosing between playing along with or spurning the camaraderie offered by men.

Part of this is due to a general ignorance of non-binary reality, but I can't help but believe that if I only found good ways to express my insides I might be able to surmount these barriers.

How has this all worked for you?

I'm sorry to hear that people make assumptions about you. I can understand that (although mine are usually not gender related, it happens to me a lot too). It sucks and I wish people would stop.
I wasn't meaning to ask you specifically. Sorry for being unclear. I just want to throw it out there that we, as sentient beings, are all different. I know I don't like it when people expect me to be like them, so I admit I'm a little sensitive when people judge others for being different than them. Just because someone is different, doesn't mean they are close minded, lack imagination, restricted, shackled, or are any less special. That's not to say that some aren't close minded or lack imagination. It's just that I think that should be considered on an individual basis and based on a person's behaviour, not on a demographic (was that the right word?) just because they're different from the speaker.
As for your question of how this has all worked for me, I'm not sure what you mean by "this all," but I will answer as best I can. I just be myself. I'm shy, so I still struggle with hiding myself, but I'm getting better. People make their own decisions and judgements and, yes, it hurts, but hiding doesn't work and being around people who don't want me as I am doesn't work.

a simple comment from my uncle last summer made me change my view on lots of things. i almost never see him, since he lives really far away, but still. i went against my mother's taste in my clothing and wore something that i feel good in, and my uncle says "that's the most i've ever seen you look like yourself"

i drew the conclusion that some people simply see you, and they don't even need a label and hours of explanation to get it. and most other people won't get it no matter how much you try to explain, so it's really not worth it unless there's a reason why you have to. so i'll simply hang out more with those who aren't put off by my otherness, and hope that other people will just let me be me even if they don't get it

Taka! You got it!

Edge! It's not us vs them, but we are different from each other in terms of gender binary and non-binary. Hah! We are all special, not just us. From our point of view and for the topic question, yes... we are special. Just as 'they' are special from there points of view. We are less understood in the Trans* world, so we can feel special just because we have insight into ourselves that others may not have. Good question, tough to answer. Know that you are special, in your own way, but not in a vs. them way.

Ativan

Not so much us vs. them as understanding vs. misunderstanding.

I've only come out to a few people and already I'm tired of hearing "well everyone has a little bit of the other sex in them, don't they?"

I do my best to educate, but it's tiring, isn't it?

Quote from: agfrommd on May 16, 2012, 05:38:54 PM
Not so much us vs. them as understanding vs. misunderstanding.

I've only come out to a few people and already I'm tired of hearing "well everyone has a little bit of the other sex in them, don't they?"

I do my best to educate, but it's tiring, isn't it?

yeah, I've only done it a few times too and I'm already tired of it too.

I could come up with some sarcastic, snarky comebacks, but fortunately I'm too nice to use them.

It's totally understandable that people don't know what androgyne means, but then after I explain it....  I don't know, I guess people assume that if they haven't heard of something before it must not be real, and feel compelled to question it.  As if they're suddenly gender experts and can quell my crazy notions and restore their sense of normalcy with a few quick questions.

Everyone has heard of extraterrestrials, yet if one stepped out of the shadows and tried to explain themselves...
There are people who would suddenly consider that they are experts because they watch 'Aliens' on the history channel.
They wouldn't have a clue and be just as dismissive.

It's a tough thing to ask of people who have only their binary life experience to understand that there is more to it.
Give them time to think and absorb the concept.
It is alien and confusing at first, but they can understand it, if they want to.
Some will refuse. It is difficult, maybe to difficult for some. Move on. That's what they want to do.
Our time is coming, it just isn't here yet.

Ativan

I've been careful about who I've told so far, and it's usually turned out ok eventually.  But I think I'm going to need to learn to stand up for myself and tell people I don't like having my identity challenged when I'm emotionally vulnerable.

Other times I like challenges.  Especially if the questions are for androgynes in general rather than being aimed at me directly.  Things like "everyone has a little bit of the other sex in them, don't they?" make for interesting forum threads, but it's not something I want to hear from a friend when I've just come out and I'm nervous about their reaction.

Quote from: BlueSloth on May 19, 2012, 04:12:00 AM
I've been careful about who I've told so far, and it's usually turned out ok eventually.  But I think I'm going to need to learn to stand up for myself and tell people I don't like having my identity challenged when I'm emotionally vulnerable.

Other times I like challenges.  Especially if the questions are for androgynes in general rather than being aimed at me directly.  Things like "everyone has a little bit of the other sex in them, don't they?" make for interesting forum threads, but it's not something I want to hear from a friend when I've just come out and I'm nervous about their reaction.

Blue, I really like the way you put that.

The stakes are much higher when you eagerly want your friend to understand you than when you're discussing something in the abstract.