Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Mitt Romney led a group of students who pinned down a student who wore his hair in a gender-variant way and give him a forced haircut. He claims he doesn't remember this incident, but many of the participants describe the incident in the same way. This was reported today in the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitt-romneys-prep-school-classmates-recall-pranks-but-also-troubling-incidents/2012/05/10/gIQA3WOKFU_story.html?tid=pm_pop (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitt-romneys-prep-school-classmates-recall-pranks-but-also-troubling-incidents/2012/05/10/gIQA3WOKFU_story.html?tid=pm_pop))

Does this incident make him unfit to be president?

That's not bullying, that's assault with a deadly weapon.

I think we ALL have things from our past that would be held against us if they were known and we ran for president.  The qualities needed to be a great leader often are often the same qualities that lead to being a bit of a trouble maker as a youth. I can't think of many things done at school age that I'd automatically disqualify someone as president.

I still have no idea who I'm voting for or if I'll even vote. I've really got where I hate politics.

I had long hair i had people hold me down and cut my hair. Well they cut locks out of it.. I say noooo way.. he is an evil person for doing that. I then later joined the USMC with long hair during the vietnam war and Romney evaded the draft by going to Paris France. He is a terrible person who has bought his way everywhere. I am sure he bought his friends in school. They followed him because he was a big wig. Its time he gets cut down to size. Obama beat his butt all over the US map

If I say yes I'm just being biased lolz. But I never did that ->-bleeped-<- when I when I was his age, so that says something.

But honestly, if it was Obama, I'd probably be more sympathetic, haha.

Had he been arrested, he would have been charged with assault with a deadly weapon, A felony.  Which would have meant that he could never have held public office.  But in those days they called it "Boys being boys". 

We do not need a right wing religious bully running the country.

Four more years. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsmileys.on-my-web.com%2Frepository%2FAnimals%2Fferret-3.gif&hash=f49e2f86761323f2abd9c33941920389dbb3b10f)

I disagree with what he did and I find it horrible.  However, I don't think it makes him unfit to be president.  It was in the past and he may have learned from it and hasn't repeated it.  I don't think it would make anyone unfit to be president and that it takes several factors to make someone an unfit president and not something they did while young. 

My opinion wouldn't change even if it was Obama.  I don't like either candidate (or any of the others) which is why I'm not voting this year. 

I seriously doubt that he's learned from it, but if he had learned from it then I would be willing to give him a second chance. I think all people have the possibility for "redemption," for lack of a better word. Now whether Romney is going to seek that out at the cost of his own social standing is another question...

I said no, for none of the reasons listed.
Because I don't "know" whether he's changed, or what the exact details were.

No, This incident doesn't disqualify him, not in my book.
What would disqualify him is his attitude towards the incident today, the possible psychological effects of zero punishment, whether this is typical, whether this type of behavior or attitude continued and whether it still continues, these are the factors I'd look at.

Even then, I wouldn't say it would disqualify him from running, but it would definitely make it easier to vote.

Lynn, I respect you for saying you won't vote for someone you don't like. Which probably comes as a surprise to some. A vote is better not cast than thrown away. Silence can speak volumes. Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on May 11, 2012, 09:03:44 PM
Lynn, I respect you for saying you won't vote for someone you don't like. Which probably comes as a surprise to some. A vote is better not cast than thrown away. Silence can speak volumes. Hugs, Devlyn

:) Thank you.  It means a lot, it really does.  I've been told I need to vote anyway --that it's my "duty" as an American--, but I can't vote (in good conscience) for someone I don't like/don't support. 

I don't much care for either candidate 

Quote from: Lynn Gabriel on May 11, 2012, 09:14:05 PM
:) Thank you.  It means a lot, it really does.  I've been told I need to vote anyway --that it's my "duty" as an American--, but I can't vote (in good conscience) for someone I don't like/don't support.

I too support you in "neither", but personally I'd rather suggest doing a "blank" vote than simply not voting.
It sort of means you're actually saying "neither" as opposed to just being silent.
Or, at least, that's how I see it....

... is that not possible maybe?

Quote from: Miniar on May 11, 2012, 09:22:50 PM
I too support you in "neither", but personally I'd rather suggest doing a "blank" vote than simply not voting.
It sort of means you're actually saying "neither" as opposed to just being silent.
Or, at least, that's how I see it....

... is that not possible maybe?

Some people write in Santa Clause.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/54093-final-2008-tally-in-bill-clinton-edges-out-santa (http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/54093-final-2008-tally-in-bill-clinton-edges-out-santa)

I put the second one.  I should have put the last one.

If I vote then I'm voting for a Sailor Moon character for president.

Mickey Mouse has the most write in votes.

Quote from: Miniar on May 11, 2012, 09:22:50 PM
I too support you in "neither", but personally I'd rather suggest doing a "blank" vote than simply not voting.
It sort of means you're actually saying "neither" as opposed to just being silent.
Or, at least, that's how I see it....

... is that not possible maybe?

I honestly have no clue.  I didn't vote last time because I wasn't registered (I forgot to register in time).  I've heard about write-ins, but not leaving something blank.  I've toyed with doing a write-in, but I have no idea how I'd do it or who I'd put (Santa Claus ain't getting my vote. :p Dude ate my cookies.)

  Back then it was boys will be boys as Ms. OBrien as stated.  I was on the receiving end from such gangups.  My hair was too short but ripped clothing; marking exposed body parts with lipstick, grease pencils and magic markers after getting beaten up were common in my area at that time.  School officials, especially the men, looked the other way.  Supposed to make a man out of me?
  I chose #2 even though Gov. Romney seems to get less and less support from me with every time he opens his mouth. 
  Joelene

How are people reconciling the fact that it was in fact assault and battery with a deadly weapon.  That is a felony and would prevent holding ANY office.  If the government itself would not give someone a second chance then why should we?

Just because he wasn't charged with the felony doesn't mean he should have been.

"crap stew" No, but I have a nice recipe for crap soup. Ingredients: One can of your favourite soup, and as many politicians as you can round up. Here's how to make it, timing is critical! At exactly 5:00pm put your soup on to heat up, and tie all the politicians to the railroad tracks. Wait for the 5:03 express train to Toledo to roar through, then place your now finely diced politicians on the curb in biohazard bags and go enjoy your soup! Good, and good for everyone. Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Jeneva on May 12, 2012, 10:17:10 AM
How are people reconciling the fact that it was in fact assault and battery with a deadly weapon.  That is a felony and would prevent holding ANY office.  If the government itself would not give someone a second chance then why should we?

Just because he wasn't charged with the felony doesn't mean he should have been.

The legal definition of "commited a felony" means one has been convicted by the court of law. Otherwise it is opinion, charge or allegation.  The world was a far different place in 1965 and society encouraged school kids to enforce gender norms and cops never got involved at schools with fights or anything like that until the 90's.

Is that horrible? Yes.

Did he actually do that? Well, We have to understand that in a campaign like this past events are often exaggerated. We have to understand that not everything is as told to us, and that while it may be true, It may not be the solid truth. Remember, this is fifty years ago, and based on the article Governor Romney doesn't even remember it. He could be lying, but so could they.

Does that disqualify him? No. Even if it was 100% true. It's just how it works.

Will I vote for him? Why would I vote for a guy no body wanted last time? Even if I was Republican... He's just a filler candidate.

Also, I think we all bully or hurt other people's feelings at a point, I wasn't a bully but I still remember a few times I could have been nicer to people. And while what is being mentioned is indeed not simple bullying, I tend to not be led easily. It's a story being told now that's 50 years old that Governor Romney "says" he has no memory of. I'll be honest, He probably wasn't there. It's not a new phenomenon of "past" events not being factual.

My dad and his friend did that to some kid, he said that's how they initiated freshman. Frankly I don't care because he's great now and that was a long ass time ago.

People can change, mature, grow as individuals.

What one did as a youth should not be a chain to bind them for the rest of their lives.

Having listened to the interview he gave, where he attempts to address these issues, I don't really know what to think. He claims to not remember them, which is entirely possible. Although I'm not fully convinced. However he does go on to apologise for anything he did which may have caused harm or offense during that period.

Not being from the US, and having no particular interest in this whole political saga, where digging for dirt seems to be a fairly common practice, I'm prepared to take that at face value. He also says that high school was a long time ago, and makes the fair point that people can change a lot in the interim. I'm prepared to accept that.

I think what matters more are his actions and attitudes now, and the way those are expressed, rather than what happened almost fifty years ago. And, while they can't be forgotten (unless you're Mitt himself, apparently) apologising and acknowledging that, to use his words, "I did some pretty dumb things in high school" show a measure of growth that can't be ignored either.

So, on the subject of whether these specific incidents should disqualify him from holding the office... no, I don't think they should. And I would say the same for anyone else in a similar situation. I have no particular interest in being political about it, since I'm not a US citizen. Whether he is a suitable candidate overall is a different issue, and one I have no real view on.

I think I would have bullied people were I not the one myself being bullied. Espicially when I was really young, a lot of the time I just didn't realize how things would impact other people. When I was seven I remember a friend telling me to say something to the effect that I didn't like her because she was a girl and then I was really surprised when she actually got upset. I did manage to make it up to her and we stayed on good terms after that, but I can easily see getting pushed to do more things like that had I been more socially powerful, even within the tiny social subculture that is school. I'd like to think I'd never do what Mitt Romney is alleged to do have done, but I don't really know.

I don't mean to excuse it but I think the school environment is really very toxic and ends up encouraging that kind of behavior.

Quote from: Amazon D on May 11, 2012, 07:53:40 PM
I had long hair i had people hold me down and cut my hair. Well they cut locks out of it.. I say noooo way.. he is an evil person for doing that. I then later joined the USMC with long hair during the vietnam war and Romney evaded the draft by going to Paris France. He is a terrible person who has bought his way everywhere. I am sure he bought his friends in school. They followed him because he was a big wig. Its time he gets cut down to size. Obama beat his butt all over the US map

I think the term "evaded" is used incorrectly here.  Romney had a lawful "ministerial deferment" when he went on his Mormon mission at the age of 18.  He also had a student deferment until he graduated.  When he was eligible for the draft, he ended up with a high draft number.

I would be much more worried about a presidential candidate who failed to register for the selective service, or who bragged about dealing dope at the same age.

I find it difficult to believe that he would not have some recollection of the act in question, unless there were a lot worse things he recalls instead. 
Not coming out strongly against bullying shows he still has the same mentality.  And certainly not offering any real sort of apology.  Not the sort of person any country needs as a leader. 

Love the recipe Devlyn, you are defo well on the way to becoming an honourary Aussie. ;D

Karen.

Quote from: Carbon on May 11, 2012, 09:29:37 PM
Some people write in Santa Clause.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/54093-final-2008-tally-in-bill-clinton-edges-out-santa (http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/54093-final-2008-tally-in-bill-clinton-edges-out-santa)

... sounds a little like my family's tradition of writing "Gargamel" whenever we don't know the answer on an exam... even if it's in math!