Susan's Place Transgender Resources

That's exactly  what Valeo Sylvania did to me today!

Over a year ago I went full time there with the support of the Human Resources department. I was allowed to use the women's restrooms. One year on and I'm called back to the H.R. office. Now I have to use a unisex bathroom because "There are a few female employees who are uncomfortable with you using the womens restroom." as I was told.

Thanks for the support Valeo!
I felt so betrayed and lost. I've cried on and off about it all day.

I'm so sorry that happened.  Is gender identity/expression protected in their policies at all?  That might be a way to fight it.

Keaira, that sucks..   :icon_hug:

Beleive it or not, Yes it is protected. It's in their parent company's policy.

Shouldn't they be forced to uphold it then?  Is there a way you can go above their heads?

I would immediately go up the notch to the senior company HR. I think your local HR has lost its backbone following some sort of complaint. They are finding hiding you is easier than supporting you. People generally always take the path of least resistance. Kick them in the goolies.

If it is policy it is policy. Fight it to allow the policy to be true.

Hugs Sis
Be Brave
We are here

Cindy

In the GOOLIES ? :o

Def. THE GOOLIES

Quote from: Jamie D on May 24, 2012, 04:13:16 AM
In the GOOLIES ? :o

Yeah, you know, like the twig and berries..

An intelligent person at last, who just happens to be an Aussie. Funny coincidence that.

"... two countries, separated by a common language"

What a pack of mongrels.  They need a pineapple up them sideways!  >:(

Karen.

It's sad really. The HR Rep whom I discussed this with is himself gay, so I would have at least hoped for some kind of support.

I'm looking for other employment now. I want out. He even admitted that there needed to be training done. Supposedly too, this somehow has to do with my safety. I think that's crap!

Quote from: Keaira on May 24, 2012, 04:43:56 AM
It's sad really. The HR Rep whom I discussed this with is himself gay, so I would have at least hoped for some kind of support.

I'm looking for other employment now. I want out. He even admitted that there needed to be training done. Supposedly too, this somehow has to do with my safety. I think that's crap!

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Document EVERYTHING

I'm probably going to get a bunch of disagreement on this.

Here's your situation as I see it. You have a company that is disagreeing with the way you use their facilities. While it sucks that you have co workers that are uncomfortable with you in the restroom, and it's wrong that the company is backing out on their policies, you have to remember that if you cause an incident things will go downhill fast. They may not be able to fire you for using the restroom, but they will look for every reason under the sun to fire you after that.

Besides, if your co workers are uncomfortable with you, do you really want to be around them? I know you live in a small town with not many options for employment, but you may just need to start reconsidering your options. It's even possible that they're trying to find reasons to fire you right now.

Quite often equal opportunity requires there to be a compromise.  In order to not show favoritism to one party, the company needs to find a way to make things good enough for all parties involved.  I used to work Corporate Diversity for a major corporation in the U.S.  It was not entirely unheard of for these types of situations to arise.  For this type of situation, we would often make the unisex bathrooms usable by everyone.  Then, since most offices have multiple bathrooms, we would inform the complaining party that they were only to use one of the bathrooms, and the targeted party would then only use the other one.  Often, we would make the complainer use the one that was the most inconvenient because they were the one causing the trouble.  We used compromises like this dealing with all sorts of issues, to include service pets.  If your company takes a hard stance on either side of the issue they open themselves up for a lawsuit.  However, forcing you to be the only one making a sacrifice is also opening them up for trouble.  Try getting them to negotiate.  If need be, depending on your area, there might be a lawyer around who would help you out pro-bono.  Good luck, this is a tricky situation.

I went to HR about it again yesterday. All it got me was a stern look and told to continue using the unisex restrooms. So, I'm complying. But people have continued to call me by my old name. And I will not answer to it. It's sad to see that this company could be headed for a lawsuit and they seem unwilling to do anything to stop it.
But, I am in fact looking elsewhere too.

I am sorry.  It sounds like things are going down hill.  I am the type of person that puts up a fight, but it is not for everyone.  I have lost a lot of battles, and won very few.  If you are not the type of girl to really fight this, it might be better for you to work with what they give you, and keep you employment options open.  Regrettably, smaller companies have a bit more leeway in matters like this.  Especially companies that are not publicly traded.  Since they do not have stock holders and a public reputation to maintain, they do not have the same obligations to keep up appearances.  I hope my earlier advice has not caused any damage.

Oh they have stockholders. Valeo Sylvania is a joint venture between the Valeo Group and Osram Sylvania. But Valeo is the mysterious 'Corporate' Office.
But I didn't say I was giving up. PFLAG, INTRAA and even the Transgender Law Center have been in contact with me. So it seems like I wont fight this alone.

Awesome!! It sounds like they are up against a worthy advisory.  I may not be much help, but if there is anything I can do please let me know.  Best of luck.

They should make the people who complained use the unisex bathrooms, not you. It's their own faults for being "uncomfortable." You're supposed to be protected by the company policy.

And that is pretty much what INTRAA's President said would be the correct response. But HR didn't like that either.

Maybe they'd like it wrapped in a legal-sounding document from one of those groups you mentioned  :angel:

Quote from: Butterflyhugs on May 30, 2012, 01:18:56 PM
Maybe they'd like it wrapped in a legal-sounding document from one of those groups you mentioned  :angel:

And there's a chance that her pink slip could be wrapped up in her next paycheck, with it reading "Lack of productivity and cause of unrest in the workplace". I wouldn't do anything brass without further financial and legal security.

Alainaluvsu, you do make a good point.  This is a delicate situation.  With that said, Keaira, if you can live with the possible job loss you should fight the battle.  Like I said in an earlier post, I am the type of person that will put up a fight.  Remember, you do not have to.  But if you do, make it a good one.  Show them that they can't push the trans community around.  Just my point of view.

Have you legally changed your name yet?  could that be an issue with them?

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 30, 2012, 04:03:28 PM
And there's a chance that her pink slip could be wrapped up in her next paycheck, with it reading "Lack of productivity and cause of unrest in the workplace". I wouldn't do anything brass without further financial and legal security.

^ this

I'm fighting them. If I end up unemployed then so be it. This kind of treatment is wrong and I would stand up for others in my situation. I just have to fight it subtly, legally and in a way that will help me but also make the company feel like it wasn't being forced into a corner. Hence why I have been talking with INTRAA about possible training for Valeo's HR staff.
And yes, my name is legally changed. Since I am from the UK I had to do it via Deed poll so I can ever get a new Birth Certificate. I even had the HR rep I've been dealing with all this time sign as a witness. So he was there when I changed it. :P

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles. It makes me so thankful that I work in a very small office and there are two washrooms with no male or female signs. Although by practice men use one and women the other, we also use each others when they are full so it is hardly something that is set in stone or would raise eyebrows. It is comforting...

I honestly don't know what I would do in your place. Part of me would want to battle, but the other side of me would want to work with the others to help them get more comfortable with me. So, I think that I would do a bit of both in a slow, progressive manner. For instance, I would advocate for the retraining side of things so that your colleagues have an opportunity to learn, become more aware, and hopefully a bit more sensitive to transgender and possibly other issues. I would also suggest that there be a team review of any policies around human rights, cultural sensitivity, etc. I would make it clear to HR what I am aiming for but what simple and more change friendly ways could be attempted first because my aim would be for a truly inclusive workplace rather than one forced legally to change. It would only be after this was tried would I be tempted to push harder. I like the soft approach to change first and only going extra steps as they become necessary. If and only when they became necessary, providing I was willing to suffer the potential employment consequences, then I would push on.

Big hugs to you and good luck. I'm hoping that with a little time there will be positive changes for you and your team.

Well, I got KNOW YOUR RIGHTS: EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION AND TRANSGENDER PEOPLE in my email today from one of my PFLAG family members. And inside, in black and white, are my rights. Valeo and it's employees are violating 3 of those.

You have the right to be treated with respect and not be harassed. Sex-based harassment is unlawful when it is
severe or pervasive and an employer does not take steps to stop it. Jokes or derogatory comments about transgender people, repeated and intentional use of the wrong name or pronouns, or intrusive, disrespectful personal questions may constitute harassment, and supervisors should take steps to stop it.

You have the right to safe and adequate access to restrooms and other facilities. Federal regulations enforced by
the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) require employers to make adequate facilities available
as freely as possible for all employees. Under no circumstances may an employer require you to use restroom
facilities that are unsanitary, unsafe, or located at an unreasonable distance from your work station. Denial of
access to restrooms that are consistent with an employee's gender identity may also constitute discrimination.

So, that's other employees continuing to use my old name, the ongoing deliberate wrong pronouns and the restroom problem.

Go get 'em. 

I hope you don't mind, but I have fought battles over restroom facilities before.  Them having you use the unisex one might bring them into compliance with that rule.  Your state, and lawyer could answer that better than I can.  I just wanted to give you a little heads up.

Good luck, be strong, teach them they can't mess with trans people.

That's horrible! I'm sorry to hear that!

Quote from: Brooke777 on June 01, 2012, 07:38:36 AM
Go get 'em. 

I hope you don't mind, but I have fought battles over restroom facilities before.  Them having you use the unisex one might bring them into compliance with that rule.  Your state, and lawyer could answer that better than I can.  I just wanted to give you a little heads up.

Good luck, be strong, teach them they can't mess with trans people.

The complaint was filed with the EEOC. The investigator I spoke with said I definitely had a case. So, I signed the paperwork and sent it back to their office. And the unisex bathroom is further away from the other rest rooms. All of the unisex bathrooms are. in fact, of the 3 unisex bathrooms that are there, I cant get to one after 5pm because the doors auto-lock another is located in the nurse's station and that gets locked when the nurse leaves, leaving me one that is waaay in the back of the plant.

Why aren't the women who are complaining told to use the unisex restrooms?

Quote from: Beth Andrea on July 19, 2012, 07:34:14 PM
Why aren't the women who are complaining told to use the unisex restrooms?

No joke....

Because that would be seen as supportive I guess. I'm betting that it has something to do with the guy from Corporate HQ who was there that week.

Well, I think you're doing the right thing by getting support for this.  No doubt the company will argue that the unisex bathroom is accommodation.  Meanwhile, I imagine the groups you mentioned will go with a "Jim Crow" reference.  Point is, this looks like it will be a tough fight

On the other hand, the use of the wrong pronouns and incorrect name are a direct and clear violation of you company's harassment policy.  That might be a good place to start.  It gives you the ability to assert your right to be recognized for who you are.  It will also possibly drive training programs which will help with the trickier bathroom fight.

I'm actually involved in the diversity department where I work so I'd be curious to know how you make out.

Glad to hear you are fighting them on this. Nothing will change unless you stand up and show them you can't be stepped on.

So, I got wrote up today because I didn't have a portable hopper set up and mold changed faster than you can say, "Wow"!
considering I had to find the mold to begin with AND clean a dirty hopper myself, fill it with material AND hook it up to CRS, All I can say is Frak you Valeo!

Then Scott Adaska told me "I don't like your attitude... I don't want to micromanage your area but I will and you wont like it."

I just walked away. Frankly I think it's becoming harassment because of my complaint to the EEOC.

It's funny, Management has no issues discriminating against me nor me not taking breaks.

I hope the organisation will see the light and doesn't continue to treat you this way.

Do you have a union presence in your workplace? Often a legal right without solidarity and an organised workforce on your side is unenforceable.

It is so sad when a workplace acts like that. I know I'm in a different country and we do have tight anti-discrimination laws, buy the place I work for is going the opposite way. Firstly they are very supportive and making sure I am happy with all the ways I'm treated, and doing it positively by asking me. Secondly they are using the situation to advise and teach people about how to report discrimination in the work force of any type and in particular bullying or sexual harassment.

So what they are getting is a win win situation that also they can use in their accreditation standard by demonstrating that they are being pro-active in work place discrimination laws. And for doing what? Obeying the law.

Sadly, it is not uncommon for a "whistleblower" to receive worse treatment after standing firm on an injustice. The attitude seems to be one of "since you want to rock the boat, we're going to get revenge by pushing you as hard as we can without clearly breaking any laws so that you either get frustrated enough to quit or start making enough mistakes for us to fire you."  It's very passive-aggressive.

You say you are looking for other employment. Good. You may need it. Just be aware that it may already be too late to expect a fair work reference from this employer.

My state is an "at-will" state; meaning that not only can I quit at any time without giving a reason, my employer can terminate my employment at any time without giving a reason. If pressed for one, all they have to say is "no longer a good fit". That can be really hard to fight unless there is irrefutable proof of discrimination or other prosecutable activity. Obviously, nobody is going to get fired the day after pressing for decent bathroom rights, but it is not entirely unheard of for such "troublemakers" to be let go without comment several months later.

The law may help establish a fair work environment, but it can only do so much. In the end, people like us are going to be on the receiving end of discrimination regardless of laws until we can effect true social change.

In the end, I guess you gotta pick your battles.  In your case, kudos for fighting the good fight. That takes guts. I hope you eventually emerge victorious. I also hope you find a much more reasonable place to work.

Good luck!!!

UPDATE:

I got a call yesterday from my case investigator at the EEOC. I was getting ready for work at the time. but she told me that Valeo's lawyers have done their own investigation and found that I do indeed have a very strong case. So much so I guess that they sent a response back to the EEOC asking for my settlement demands, BEFORE this even goes to court. My case investigator told me I could settle for as little as a penny or as much as $300,000.00.
When I hung up, I actually threw up. I think it was shock this time.

I have asked for the maximum amount for the following reasons:

1. The heart of a business is it's wallet. Not true for all, but in this case, very much so. And I want to hurt them as much as they hurt me.

2. At that amount, you can be almost certain that the company will train it's employees about Trans issues so that they dont make a mistake like that again.

3. I gave them the EEOC guidelines before I ever filed charges and gave them a chance to rectify their mistake and they ignored me.

4. When all things are settled, you can bet they will find a way to fire me. So I am preparing for unemployment and possibly going back to school.

But I was told there is a good chance I could get the maximum settlement because if it was settled in court, it could cost them much more.

Whether I get that much, I dont know. but it's worth a try.

I will of course keep you updated. But please know that if you face a similar situation, then DO file a charge with the EEOC. It's free and if enough of us do so then eventually businesses will get the message that we are human beings, we are like everyone else and we will not take discrimination at work as just another part of transsexual life.

You don't have to justify fighting a bad situation and demanding remuneration for your suffering, not at all.  Good for you for taking it to them! Finish strong girlfriend!

Please do make an example of them if possible, in the system we live in private employment is what most of us depend on, and private companies need to be nondiscriminatory in thier policies AND actions.

I guess I'm just a girl who is tired of being stepped on. I mean, the other two techs I have to interact with at work all but ignore me. One wont even look at me on the rare occasions that he does talk to me And I'm the one who get's written up for not seeking help when I need it. If I win, I wont have to worry about that anymore.
I want to buy a house so I can stop living in crappy rentals where landlords dont fix anything. Go to school and get a degree in something I truly want to do or where I can best help people, (Gender therapist anyone?) and give my kids a little something towards their future. And finally get more laser work done on my face so I can finally feel like a woman and not a bearded lady.

I wished I was a fly on that HR guy's wall if you do win.

lol

Keaira,
  I hope you do win.  I worked in a large corporation that had an HR section.  We hated them with a passion. I got a few friends who worked in an aerospace company here, these friends referred these people as "Human Resources f###s". 
  Joelene

Ah, but I have won. Valeo could have fought me and won very easily if their lawyers found I didn't have a case. But after they did their own investigating, they saw that they were pretty much over a legal barrel with their pants down. If HR had simply read the new guidelines I had provided and heeded them, things could have been just fine. I could have gone back to blending in as just another female employee.
So, since they have found that I have them over a barrel, they want to get it over with before it ever goes to court. Between the legal fee's and bad PR it would generate, it would become even more expensive very quickly.

So it's a matter of how rough or how gentle I want to be. Given all the crap that I have had to put up with since I started transition, I am certainly not going to be gentle. *Throws away the lube*

@Keaira

Hi Keaira,

Congratulations and hats off to you, ma'am!

May I ask you a question? Are you pre- or poet-op?

Good job again!
Andrea

Quote from: NotThereYet on August 31, 2012, 01:51:09 PM
@Keaira

Hi Keaira,

Congratulations and hats off to you, ma'am!

May I ask you a question? Are you pre- or poet-op?

Good job again!
Andrea

I am Pre-Op. I know that money would cover SRS but I think the most I will have is an orchi, simply because my wife doesnt want me to have SRS and I've always seen it as being out of my reach and I made peace with that. Somewhat.


Had a meeting with Joe Garavaglia in HR today at about 5:30. He wanted to just touch base, see how things were going for me, etc. I can't help but feel like it's related to the EEOC case. He also mentioned that training for managers, etc. Was now on the radar.

Mark Bledsoe had a meeting with him just before that where my name and gender changes had been discussed. I'm sure he was not too happy.
We discussed what could be done to accommodate me better, why I don't want to be a molding tech anymore, etc. I also suggested benefits for same sex partners and coverage for SRS in our health plan. But I'm not buying into the 'I'm your buddy in HR' thing. I brought up the bathroom issue again and was told that it was a temporary situation but when I asked about the time frame I was not given one. And really, all this could have been avoided.

I was nice about it though.

All in all, I think Valeo is worried.

Just got done reading about your ordeal.

All I can say is wow...

I sure would like to know what happened with your case, Any updates??

I've not heard anything more back from my investigator. It's probably going to take some time still. Meanwhile, I Still have to use the unisex bathrooms. I honestly think that they don't quite get the hint here.

@Laura91

I have not looked for one yet.

My contact from INTRAA ( Indiana Transgender Advocacy Association) would like me to give a talk to others to show that there is hope when this case is closed. I told her I would do it. Although I've never done public speaking before. But, I know how it feels to think you don't have a leg to stand on. So if it helps others, I'll do it. ^_^

Today I was fired. I recorded the meeting on my ipod for future reference. And I have notified the EEOC Investigator I was working with. So, I'm going to be stepping off into the deep end. I have to find a new job under my new name, different gender, etc. So it's even more stressful this time. But it's okay. I've gone this far without faltering. So I'll be okay. ^_^

Quote from: Keaira on February 06, 2013, 10:26:52 PM
Today I was fired. I recorded the meeting on my ipod for future reference. And I have notified the EEOC Investigator I was working with. So, I'm going to be stepping off into the deep end. I have to find a new job under my new name, different gender, etc. So it's even more stressful this time. But it's okay. I've gone this far without faltering. So I'll be okay. ^_^

I'm so sorry I'm sure you will find a better job.

Sorry to see that Valeo fired you. I would have thought with EEOC up their asses and a possible 300K settlement to be paid out, they would have played their cards better. Obviously, it seems to me that your firing was retaliatory in nature. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Sending you hugs and support, Keiara!

I was fired for too many write-ups. they have a 3 write-up limit in 1 year. Funny that I didnt even get shown one, let alone sign it.
Also, I have never seen anyone crash a robot and get written up or even drug tested like I was.

Oh well....

My case investigator and I are going to chat on tuesday. So I hope to have something to post then.