Susan's Place Transgender Resources

This is very disturbing, I just got an email from Joel Osteen Ministries when I tried to talk to them about LGBT Issues and Intersexed in particular. I got the following response:

QuoteIt still goes back to God does not make mistakes.
I don't believe in intersexes. Someone came up with that word.
That is not in the Bible.

QuoteNo one is borne a homosexual.  It is a choice one chooses to make in life.
God loves the person, but he hates the sin it causes, and life style..
Leviticus 18 :22 ~ Romans 1:20-27 verses 24 God says there is no excuse.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ~ 2 Timothy 3:1-3 ~ Matthew 19:4
In the beginning God said: I made them male and female. He could have made
2 males, but he didn't. He wanted the world to multiply.  He wanted fellowship
with us. So he made man and woman.  There was no mistake.
Go read theses verses for yourself.

We must go with what the Holy Bible has to say about this subject.
Only  God can change a sin life.  Ask him, he will do it for you. But
One must be willing...1 John 1:9

We will believe God's best for you..

I just can't believe they would say that! How can they be so blind and refuse to see that indeed intersexed children and people are born? It blows my mind and now I know I have a duty to let other Christians know its all real.

"No one is borne (sic) a homosexual."

First of all, I would question the bona fides of anyone who cannot tell the difference between "borne" and "born."

Secondly, the science just not exist to support the claim.  That >95% of the general population purports to be heterosexual does not mean the other fraction can not have another innate sexual orientation.

And it is well-known in the medical literature that there are a certain percentage of persons born with "intersex" conditions, both physical and genetic.

Without bashing the source of the information, I have to conclude they are profoundly ignorant of the science.

hehe They were probably thinking of Jason Borne, and the Borne Identity  ::)

Lol, if people say that "God doesn't make any mistakes", they're just fcking stupid.

Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on June 12, 2012, 05:13:36 PM
Lol, if people say that "God doesn't make any mistakes", they're just fcking stupid.

Let me play the Devil's Advocate on that point  >:-)

One can reason that God did not make a mistake in creating the spark of life, but that the anomaly developed as a result of environmental factors.

Quote from: Jamie D on June 12, 2012, 05:19:29 PM
Let me play the Devil's Advocate on that point  >:-)

One can reason that God did not make a mistake in creating the spark of life, but that the anomaly developed as a result of environmental factors.

Then GID would be no different. It doesn't matter whether it's a mistake or not, those people seem to forget every other abnormal defect that occurs in humans, which is ridiculous. Thus, the second someone claims that "God doesn't make mistakes" when arguing against transsexuality is the second I stop taking them seriously. It doesn't make any sense at all.

Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on June 12, 2012, 05:31:44 PM
when arguing against transsexuality

That's actually what I meant I should've made it clearer.

In my opinion he is but another looney tune.

Quote from: peky on June 12, 2012, 09:04:32 PM
In my opinion he is but another looney tune.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi139.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq297%2Fpsychofm%2FBLOG%2520PHOTOS%2Fdaffy_duck_14.jpg&hash=aeded5a5400f12a76c1070737374dce04a252f70)

I take offense to this statement! Oh wait, You said tune not toon. I agree, He is quite the un-merry melody.

Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on June 12, 2012, 05:31:44 PM
Then GID would be no different. It doesn't matter whether it's a mistake or not, those people seem to forget every other abnormal defect that occurs in humans, which is ridiculous. Thus, the second someone claims that "God doesn't make mistakes" when arguing against transsexuality is the second I stop taking them seriously. It doesn't make any sense at all.

You have a mind like a trap.

Or the mind of a trap.

I don't know, I'm easily confused.

Personally i believe that no, God does not make mistakes. Obviously he made them that way for a reason, it isn't a mistake. that is such a foolish statement. thats like saying people with cancer don't exist.

Personally I deny that gods exist, so I guess that makes him and I even. 

Quote from: justmeinoz on June 13, 2012, 03:43:22 AM
Personally I deny that gods exist, so I guess that makes him and I even.

Agreed! :)

I really would appreciate it if we could stay on topic here. Comments about denying that God exists are not addressing the issue in this Christian thread on how to help other Christians, to start waking up and start seeing in the bible for what it really says instead of fundamentalist ideas. Lets also examine the science of what we see, realizing it all makes sense and it connects together

If you don't want to believe in any God that's fine, but please I would ask of you to stop coming into my threads and keep stating the same thing I have seen you post before. I don't even go into the atheist section to post anything there, although I do read things in there.

I'm just pointing out it's just his personal opinion.  In this case flying in the face of proven fact, which by it's very nature is not objectively possible in the same way for the existence of God.

He probably does not believe the internet is real either, because it was not mentioned in the bible. Yet, here we are!

Ah, that poses the very interesting question, what would we be left with if we disappeared away everything not documented in the bible. :o

The meaning of 'defect' or birth-defect is a HUMAN kind of thing only. Am not so sure if God has any issues with this at all, not even if we as humans take issue.
If God is nature also... "nature likes variety – society doesn't"

It gets tricky when the bible is mentioned as the unadulterated message and word from God.
Why? Because it ALWAYS is being INTERPRETED and next, the INTERPRETER now needs to be in the mind of God, by speaking under the influence of the Holy Spirit.

The person doing the interpretation, and the speaking, is in fact the ONLY one that says or CLAIMS this to be so. Yes?
Oh, and if questioning the 'message' - you will then commit the ultimate sin by refuting the Holy Spirit. Been there before, as you might hear.

In the end it's back to: opinions are like ass-holes, - everyone has one.
Just follow hermeneutics (bible interpretation) and see HOW MANY INTERPRETATIONS on any text exist, and change over time, and are canonical and are not. Phew...

There ARE truly inspired preachers in deed - and then there are those OTHERS.
The stated is nothing other but some OPINION based on some guys INTERPRETATION, and being a known preacher (I guess), is the ONLY reason one even might bother to speak about it.

So, ---- he has an opinion, and so have I, and mine does not coincide with his.
End of the argument.

Axélle

Yes and no to stating whatever you want.  Things need to be polite.

This is the Christianity section and well everyone has the right not to believe, they still need to word things in a polite and respectful way.

These are the same people who: do not BELIEVE evolution, did not BELIEVE  that earth is not the center of the Universe, did BELIVE in whichcraft and thus burned houndred of thousand of Innocent allege-whiches, killed thousand of people who suffered from convulsions because they BELIEVE those poor souls were possessed by demons...

Now, the tell us they do not BELIEVE there is intersex people? Wow, why I am not surprised?

Who else I am supposed to do to proof you the folly of listening to those people ? As it has been pointed to you before, there are other Christians churches who are accepting of GLBT people without deviating from the core of "Jesus message," why not to seek one of those churches?

Say a mother took some thalidamide tablets during pregnancy. Or the company UCIL in Bhopal released toxic chemicals into the environment?
The links here can be proven scientifically. These are human mistakes. A pregant mother and her unborn child may have been affected by a nearby chemical plant or affected by chemicals inadvetently released into drinking water causing hormonal imbalances. It's not god's mistake. Are we then still not permitted to provide care or corrective therapy? Humans make mistakes daily requiring some sort of medical intervention. All forbidden too??

Quote from: peky on June 13, 2012, 01:31:56 PM
These are the same people who: do not BELIEVE evolution, did not BELIEVE  that earth is not the center of the Universe, did BELIVE in whichcraft and thus burned houndred of thousand of Innocent allege-whiches, killed thousand of people who suffered from convulsions because they BELIEVE those poor souls were possessed by demons...

Now, the tell us they do not BELIEVE there is intersex people? Wow, why I am not surprised?

Who else I am supposed to do to proof you the folly of listening to those people ? As it has been pointed to you before, there are other Christians churches who are accepting of GLBT people without deviating from the core of "Jesus message," why not to seek one of those churches?

I am seeking out those churches. I will be going to one very soon

Also I apologize If I got a little upset, I was just wanting to show the difference between a loving and accepting Christian and a church that just wants to ignore it all. If you met me in real life you would like me and I would like you regardless of how you believed. I am easy to get along with and the only people I can't stand are violent or ignorant people.

Quote from: ShawnToShawn on June 13, 2012, 02:30:54 PM
I am seeking out those churches. I will be going to one very soon

The church that I go to, the Congregational Church of San Mateo (http://www.ccsm-ucc.org/), is a church very much like what Peky describes. In your search, try the UCC (http://www.ucc.org/) and specifically The UCC Coalition for LGBT Concerns (http://www.ucccoalition.org/). Look for churches that are "ONA," or "open and affirming," or that have an ONA status that is "Y."

Quote from: Laura91 on June 13, 2012, 12:58:11 PM
That makes no sense. Of course they exist. Believing your God makes no mistakes is foolish. Denying this is delusional.

Ok well thats cool but um not what i was saying. in reply to the topic i was saying that if being intersex isn't real because thats a mistake then what is something like cancer? obviously people with cancer exist. But clearly u dont get what im saying, i dont even know why im wasting my time writing back to you im delusional after all.

The whole thing ALWAYS gets so confusing because of the "duality" concept, i.e., that God is happening outside of us.

EVERYTHING that is about us is God, that includes us. Reading the New Testament and Jesus' sayings actually CAN make one understand this. God is all-present; he is 'in us' AND 'with us'.

How can something as a 'mistake' EXIST outside of God? It doesn't. And in any case Nature does not know ANY concept of mistakes, - in fact Nature does not even know 'concepts' does not NEED 'concepts'! Nature simply IS. Nature creates variations because that is the nature - of NATURE.

If we confuse God to be something outside of us, our very existence, - we have some old woman (man?) with a cloak and a walking stick looking down on us, telling us what horrible mistakes we make?

That MAY BE Old Testament in some folks' heads? It is not what Jesus had to say, not in my understanding.

Lastly look into the acceptance of 'Eunuchs' those that are born... and those that are made... and ALL will be 'accepted in to the kingdom of heaven', even in the Old Testament AND the New.
I.e. Isaiah 56: 3-5 and Matthew 19:11-12, compliments of Catherine Sarah :)

This preacher does not seem to know his bible - or had some very limited education in hermeneutic.

Amen,
Axelle

God created the Universe with all the rules and laws for its unfolding. By its creation point (Big-Bang), the essence of God permeates the whole Universe, inner and outer.

Imbedded in the Universe's unfolding laws are those of: chaos (which can be predicted), determinism (which can also be predicted), and randomness (which cannot be predicted). It is the randomness of the Universe that seems to perplex humans the most. yet randomness and the other predictive laws of the Universe are but the force unfolding the Universe towards an "Omega Point."

So, my view point is that God moves from within and without myself, and that my actions overall contribute toward moving me and the Universe towards the "Omega Point."

Peky

God doesn't make mistakes. He does, however, have this non-interference clause.

Also, "we are made in his image", God is spirit so the image of god would be spirit, not a physical body.

I left the Christian church because of all the two-faced, hypocritical, convenient interpretation of bible scripture and the church being too political. When I say political, I mean hateful. The church started using the bible as a weapon of hate, and selectively using scripture but ignoring other parts of scripture. In the church's eyes, Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself. The church however, only welcomes straight people and will not have LGBTIQ people.

I have seen the church go from a place of worship to a vehicle of hate, and a forceful place of hate at that.

The experience of others may vary, I only tell my own story from my own real life experience.

The man is obviously an ignorant idiot, as I like a lot of people here know Intersex people personally.
I, however, have no real proof of the existence of this Osteen person.  If it was a toss-up between his existence and God's I would have to go with God actually on the balance of historical probability.

Crucial to their argument is their view that homosexuality and ->-bleeped-<- is learned. Otherwise their view falls apart. And like the when jesus was asked whose sin resulted in having a blind man, he replied no one.

Kendall

Quote from: kendra on August 08, 2012, 08:49:05 PM
Crucial to their argument is their view that homosexuality and ->-bleeped-<- is learned. Otherwise their view falls apart. And like the when Jesus was asked whose sin resulted in having a blind man, he replied no one.

Kendall

Jesus was 33 YO and unmarried, at an age when most Jewish boys were married by age 16, why? May be he as eunuch?

  I do not give too much credence to TV and radio preachers.  After being burned by one in the early 1970's (Oral Roberts) I am quite skeptical of their message and delivery.  Billy Graham and J. Vernon McGee preached the basic stuff and did not embellish the message.  It was J. Vernon McGee who got me off of the "Book of Revelation is coming" bandwagon that was popular after the Vietnam war. 
  Joel Osteen is one of those televangelists who knows how to use the power of mass media as with the others before him.  There were those who preached against homosexuality and got caught in bed in some fleabag somewhere with a live man.  God will not tolerate this in the end as He warned many times in the Bible about the false prophets, false healers and the false teachers. 
  Yes, there were intersex people in history, but not much was noted.  They were known in the New Testament as "eunuchs of God".  Rev. Osteen uses his tele-pulpit to broadcast his own ideals and prejudices to like minded people and ignore or discard the rest of the message the Bible provides. 
  Joelene