Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I had to stop dilating and was good up to the day I left for FFS, Labiaplasty and BA, now 3 weeks back.

I was also told only to start dilating after one more week had passed i.e. 3 weeks post-op and I did that - almost daily and getting back to my once a day routine I had followed up until then.

This far for the back ground.

I now find having lost at LEAST 1" depth and am now down to 4"or even some less.

It had even before all of this occurred to me wanted to ask some FAAB friends about THEIR depth... alas THAT seems such a no-no that not one of them would bring up EVER among themselves (FAAB) and my sense of propriety has this far prevented me to clearly raise this subject.

I guess guys are not talking about THEIR member-lengths either  ;D Fair enough, eh?

So here is my question:
Am I alone and just silly not to ask - or is this just one of those female taboos hardly ever - if at all, brought up even with one's gynie?

To have now under 4" depth is starting to give me some reason for concern - this to come about only after a 3 week dilating hiatus.
I'm almost 1 year post-op now.

Axélle

hard to imagine most normal men will be happy with 4inches depth?

however the reason you lost depth is the muscle tightened down and you will have to force it open rather painfully and be ready for some blood on your dilator - then to keep the depth you'll have to make sure you leave longer than 4 inch soft jelly dialtor with lots of clean antibio cream in between dialtions until the little bleeding tears have healed and then you will find you have your old 6/7 inches again.

My experience is all you have to do is dilate regularly again.  There won't be any blood or tearing and you won't have to do anything special or worry about any complications.  If you buy one of these http://tantusinc.com/catalog/Dildos/Silk-Medium (http://tantusinc.com/catalog/Dildos/Silk-Medium) and have a pair of underwear that are too small you can dilate while you sleep, though you have to be able to accommodate a 1.5" (inch) dilator.  And I would feel better knowing you were completely healed down there before doing this because the pressure may restrict blood supply.  I did it last night.  What is this about FFS, etc?  Congratulations.

Quote from: Noey Noonesson on August 11, 2012, 06:46:32 PM
And I would feel better knowing you were completely healed down there before doing this because the pressure may restrict blood supply.

THat could potentially be very bad. You could end up with the equivalent of a bedsore in there.

I remember reading a study on a particular type of SRS where the author compares the depth he was able to achieve, as compared to a OEM girl.

It seems like...Marci Bowers took over for a pioneering SRS surgeon, and it was his study of the surgery technique which included measurements.

Let me take a quick look...BRB

Nope, couldn't find it. It "seems" like a typical depth for a natural woman would be in the 5"-6" range (12.5cm--15cm). My memory hasn't been that great lately though...

Quote from: Noey Noonesson on August 11, 2012, 06:46:32 PM
My experience is all you have to do is dilate regularly again.  There won't be any blood or tearing and you won't have to do anything special or worry about any complications.  If you buy one of these http://tantusinc.com/catalog/Dildos/Silk-Medium (http://tantusinc.com/catalog/Dildos/Silk-Medium) and have a pair of underwear that are too small you can dilate while you sleep, though you have to be able to accommodate a 1.5" (inch) dilator.  And I would feel better knowing you were completely healed down there before doing this because the pressure may restrict blood supply.  I did it last night.  What is this about FFS, etc?  Congratulations.

I agree. I think just keep on dilating regularly, Axélle I'm sure you'll regain the lost depth over time. I'm actually dilating using the exact same silicone dildo in the link every night while sleeping.

Wow, thanks for all the kind and detailed feedback.

@ Noey Nooneson,
well as I said during my required 2 week FFS post-op time - which included a labiaplasty revision (and BA) I was not allowed (nor was I feeling) to dilate.

See:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,122585.msg961235.html#msg961235 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,122585.msg961235.html#msg961235)

for details.

So, it's back to (dilating) work - not that nice it being so cold over here at present... but it seems: "we got to do what we got to do..."
I REALLY don't want to draw blood - bloody hell, - sorry to sound girlie about THAT ::)

Axélle
PS: BTW... with "relevant" I really ment nothing else but +/- needed or required.
Is 6" or 7" really "relevant" or where it's all at?
Only an FAAB with some extensive male intercourse experience would really be able to answer that, yes?

I think the issue is that with FAAB women, their vagina extends and expands when they get aroused, so they have more "pubic capacity". If you're dating a bigger man you'd have to experiment pretty carefully - perhaps fit him with a depth stop :) (serious suggestion - a foam ring could save a lot of pain).

Quote from: Padma on August 12, 2012, 04:25:41 AM
I think the issue is that with FAAB women, their vagina extends and expands when they get aroused, so they have more "pubic capacity". If you're dating a bigger man you'd have to experiment pretty carefully - perhaps fit him with a depth stop :) (serious suggestion - a foam ring could save a lot of pain).

doesnt a neovagina do that as well?

I'm pretty sure it can't do it in the same way, as it's not built from the same kind of material, doesn't have muscle walls in the same way, etc. Unless there have been some really serious leaps in neovagina tech in the last year or so, anyway.

although I am limited to what I can get with a hard dilator when I relax and am aroused and comfortable (with a man, engaged in sexual intercourse) I do elongate and widen.  Something is happening to my body and it isn't just simple dilation.  There is some sort of muscle thing going on.

If the attention is unwanted the opposite occurs, (tightening).

Interesting. I guess tissue is tissue, and mind and body are intertwined.

Quote from: Noey Noonesson on August 12, 2012, 05:21:32 AM
although I am limited to what I can get with a hard dilator when I relax and am aroused and comfortable (with a man, engaged in sexual intercourse) I do elongate and widen.  Something is happening to my body and it isn't just simple dilation.  There is some sort of muscle thing going on.

If the attention is unwanted the opposite occurs, (tightening).

the same thing happens to be anally ............ lol

Well now, going along with Noey's findings using a vibrator of some dimension (42mm diameter, 7"long) ... and initially not being the least aroused the thing hardly wants to get inside in the first place  :embarrassed:

Eventually though it will go, and it would be *VERY* painful to force it - before it wants to go.
Call this step one.

Step two, starting to get into it, and I'm speaking here of 1/2 hour quite easily, one wants that thing to REALLY go DEEP, deeper, deepest!
Mother Nature then having HER way I guess?

The difference between the initial (reluctant) and finally (willing) stage is at least 1". Though in my case 4 ½" is the end of the flag pole so to speak – which gets me back to "relevant" depths.

A penis is thankfully not as firm as a normal vibrator or dilator, yet bumping real harsh into our internal dead-end is PAINFUL. Ouch!  :-\

Well, to me it is, and when Dr Sanguan did his check-up shoving a speculum of some proportions up there (size of a barbeque tongues) just 3 weeks back... ouch! Yeak!
It gave me an idea about what it's like to have a pap smear. Not a very nice thing and he did not even take any samples.
At least all had healed very well, was his finding.

4 ½" - relevant depth (aroused)? That is the question – and if ever I find out, I shall share my findings  :D

Axélle

I did a search for "dimensions of a vagina" and found this:

Quotehttp://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/6/1618.full (http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/6/1618.full)

Mean vaginal length from cervix to introitus was 62.7 mm. Vaginal width was largest in the proximal vagina (32.5 mm), decreased as it passed through the pelvic diaphragm (27.8 mm) and smallest at the introitus (26.2 mm). Significant positive associations were parity with vaginal fornix length, age with pelvic flexure width and the height with width at the pelvic flexure. CONCLUSION: No one description characterized the shape of the human vagina. Although there is variation among women, variables such as parity, age and height are positively associated with differences in baseline dimensions.

Chart of measurements (http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/6/1618/T1.expansion.html)

It's interesting to note the "linear length" ranges between 40.8mm and 95mm (about 1 3/4" and 4"). I don't know if that is "as the crow flies" (ie, a straight-line measurement at an unstretched vagina), or did they penetrate with some measuring tool? (I know they used an MRI, so it's likely an "at-rest" measurement)

"Proximal vagina (http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/297/5/R1486.full)" = "...proximal (approximately upper two-thirds) and distal segment (approximately lower one-third)..."

Mean vaginal length from cervix to introitus was 62.7 mm. Millimeter!!!

This equals less than 2.5"!!!! Now HOW is THAT?!?

e.g. Lilacwoman is talking of 6 / 7" !!!!

Vaginal width was largest in the proximal vagina (32.5 mm),

This equals 1mm more than just 1 1/4" !!!

I have some problems to find these numbers credible.

Is that just me?

Axélle
PS: If it's measured with MRI then it is OBVIOUSLY in 'rested' position, then in deed it would make sense.
BTW 4"= 101.6mm; recall giving birth will cause dilation to 4" comparing that to a 1" introitus rested!
Now I REST my case :)

From the study:

Quote...Studies have utilized casts to visualize the vagina in three dimensions and to compare vaginal shape, dimensions and surface contact in various ethnic populations. The casts consisted of wax, rapidly solidifying dental impression paste, polyvinyl siloxane, etc. (Morgan, 1961; Richter, 1967; Pendergrass et al., 1996). These studies were limited by the abnormal distension of the vagina; however, they suggested differences among vaginal shapes and dimensions in African-American, Caucasian and Hispanic women (Richter, 1967; Pendergrass et al., 2000)...

...The goal of this project was to define baseline, nondistended dimensions of the vagina of women of reproductive age using noninvasive imaging.

They do mention their measurements are of a vagina without...accessories...stretching the dimensions. I haven't read the whole article yet, but they may have a comparative chart showing "relaxed" and "distended" measurements. Remember, a neo-vagina is an actual tube of flesh which was made full-length (or nearly so) as part of the procedure. An OEM vagina is only long enough to reach the cervix, and is able to stretch a little bit to accommodate a male erection (typically less than 6"). So maybe comparing dimensions of a neo-vagina and an OEM vagina isn't important (since they serve different functions)?

Quote from: Beth Andrea on August 12, 2012, 09:55:59 AM
From the study:

They do mention their measurements are of a vagina without...accessories...stretching the dimensions. I haven't read the whole article yet, but they may have a comparative chart showing "relaxed" and "distended" measurements. Remember, a neo-vagina is an actual tube of flesh which was made full-length (or nearly so) as part of the procedure. An OEM vagina is only long enough to reach the cervix, and is able to stretch a little bit to accomodate a male erection (typically less than 6")

Thanks for your feedback and interest Beth, much appreciated in deed.
Though there is also the issue of peritoneal reflection which --- so my understanding, normally limits depth as it is part of the pelvic bone...

Axélle

I had colovaginoplasty and got 7inches initially so I made sure to draw lines round the dilators with permanent marker so that at visits to surgeon he could see and try the full 7inches.

Then it got really sore due to the colon mucus irritating the join and the bits of scrotum that he'd used at the front so I practically gave up dilating for a couple of weeks and it 'seemed' to close up...but at next visit he used lots of lube and opened me up...I added the sound effects of woman in labour - and he said 'you've still got 7inches!'. 

So now I still have the 7inches but if I don't dilate for two days it does tighten up and there is a little bleeding when I do.

I find that maybe a hard round dilator is not the best shape and middle two fingers are fine and allow me to put pressure directly on the muscle that makes us tight and is what the suregons stretch during surgery which is why after surgery we feel to be sitting on a golf ball.

to check for actual opening and depth of natural vaginas you could go look at some porn but only if you can stand being triply depressed if you can't achieve either the sex or depth or find porn nasty.

Quote from: lilacwoman on August 13, 2012, 02:05:21 AM
to check for actual opening and depth of natural vaginas you could go look at some porn but only if you can stand being triply depressed if you can't achieve either the sex or depth or find porn nasty.

I guess "relevant "depths (and width) for some porn stars be measured by 1 ltr plastic Coke bottle 1/2 way in?!

I see when you mention NOT to get depressed. THAT... way out of league...

So maybe it's find your poison (man?) - and start practicing before we become bloody (pun intended) virgins once again?

:)

Axélle

I'm wondering (without getting graphic or moaning, etc)...instead of using a hard dialator, has anyone tried using a "realistic" dildo of the appropriate size? That's a bit softer to the touch, but still rigid enough to enter. I'm just curious, I'd think it'd be more comfortable.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on August 13, 2012, 11:49:03 AM
I'm wondering (without getting graphic or moaning, etc)...instead of using a hard dialator, has anyone tried using a "realistic" dildo of the appropriate size? That's a bit softer to the touch, but still rigid enough to enter. I'm just curious, I'd think it'd be more comfortable.

My experience is that lubrication with the softer ones is a bit of an issue. The harder the surface, the easier to lube the dang thing.
The one I mentioned is semi-firm of firm foam covered with a thick-ish layer of latex. It already is less 'slippy' than the standard type acrylic dilator.
I think a real 'Long John Silver' with a regular and good dynamic action to show his affection can't be beat  :angel:

Now to find one of 'em...

Axélle

Quote from: Axélle on August 13, 2012, 08:41:05 AM
I guess "relevant "depths (and width) for some porn stars be measured by 1 ltr plastic Coke bottle 1/2 way in?!

I see when you mention NOT to get depressed. THAT... way out of league...

So maybe it's find your poison (man?) - and start practicing before we become bloody (pun intended) virgins once again?

:)

Axélle

I've not seen any coke bottle porn as I never looked at porn until just a few months ago when I was off dilating with pain and had a look at some hetero porn to see what size of men were out there and what depth they seemed to be getting with different size women and like folks say the natural vagina does seem able to take any size and any length.

It would cost too much to try all the dilators on the market but I found a DrJohnson soft one that is about 6.5 long and about 1.2 diameter with a round end about 1.5dia.   
The plain end had a sharp edge that I snipped smoother and now its fine to use for long periods.

I also bought a realistic one of slightly bendy rubber and its also about 6.5 inches to the big scrotum shape.

so basically I still have almost the 7 inches but any loss is due to external shrinkage/bruise reduction.

I don't think straight hard dilators are ideal for us and maybe the banana ones arent either.
I think the surface should be grooved or have dimples to help spread the lube.

Thinking just of yesterday's dilating session, it also (obviously?) has to do with what was mentioned earlier on... one's MIND SET.

If not in the 'mood' at all, the whole exercise becomes one unpleasant chore, dishwashing seems fun by comparison. It takes ages to get to any sort of depth, "relevant" or otherwise.
So, yes, even a neo-vj is prone to a noticeable amount of variation in these circumstances - I don't even want to mention numbers as it feels no good.

Just reflecting on all that was said this far... and thank you for all your inputs  :)
Axélle

To some degree you can control the position of your pelvis so as to moderate the penetration during sexual intercourse.  You can also do this with positions.  If you are in a missionary position a male will be able to get a certain amount of depth but if you put your legs around him and tilt your pelvis forward he will be able to get more depth.  If you want to limit depth tilt pelvis to the rear during missionary.  Essentially tilt pelvis away from partner to avoid deeper penetration.

Women tend to complain more about partners being too big rather than being too small.  I am referring to women who were born with all the right bits, not just women like us.

You can make a nice sticky lube that has staying power by mixing equal parts AstroLube and K-Y Jelly and you can buy a vaginal syringe from this website http://www.abundanthealth4u.com/Vaginal_Syringe_p/9259.htm (http://www.abundanthealth4u.com/Vaginal_Syringe_p/9259.htm)  May come in handy for women who prefer to maintain control of their lives when possible.  1cc tends to be plenty.

Thanks again for the detail :)

Axx

btw, I really like your new pic/avatar, Axélle!

Quote from: Beth Andrea on August 14, 2012, 06:09:21 PM
btw, I really like your new pic/avatar, Axélle!

Thanks sweetie, I'd decided to go 'Foxy' as it's so cold here still.

Though it's a 'faux fox' body warmer (and cowl-neck knit-dress), "relevant" to mention... :D

Axx

Quote from: Axélle on August 15, 2012, 03:07:34 AM
Thanks sweetie, I'd decided to go 'Foxy' as it's so cold here still.

Though it's a 'faux fox' body warmer (and cowl-neck knit-dress), "relevant" to mention... :D

Axx

That is odd! I understand "south of the equator" and all, but August is our "hot" month (middle of summer). Today it's expected to be about 90^F (33 C)...Same during Christmas, it's winter, lots of snow, cold, etc...The Earth seems to be quite a big place, what with different seasons at the same time... :)

Quote from: Beth Andrea on August 15, 2012, 06:01:06 AM
That is odd! I understand "south of the equator" and all, but August is our "hot" month (middle of summer). Today it's expected to be about 90^F (33 C)...Same during Christmas, it's winter, lots of snow, cold, etc...The Earth seems to be quite a big place, what with different seasons at the same time... :)

We had chilly polar winds from South-West and it reduced my "relevant" depth even further, and my chipmunk face to boot!  ::)

Today we actually had the first break! Temperatures jumped by about 20 deg C!
"Relevant" depth though still frozen... - such a pain!

Axx
PS: did anyone take notice... we had not a single FAAB chipping in, just as I had mentioned in my OP. It IS taboo, eh?

Quote from: Axélle on August 15, 2012, 11:41:47 AM
We had chilly polar winds from South-West and it reduced my "relevant" depth even further, and my chipmunk face to boot!  ::)

Today we actually had the first break! Temperatures jumped by about 20 deg C!
"Relevant" depth though still frozen... - such a pain!

Axx
PS: did anyone take notice... we had not a single FAAB chipping in, just as I had mentioned in my OP. It IS taboo, eh?

You mean you STILL get ball sack shrinkage with cold? LOL!

As to FAAB, I don't know...with guys (or even former guys), boasting about size is relatively common...with girlz, "size" isn't something to brag about ("hotdog in a hallway" comes to mind). Smaller is better! Plus, by not talking about it, they keep some of the "mystique" about that very personal anatomical par-ar-ar-art. (Sorry, had a bit of an echo in there... :o )

I don't know tho, because it's never come up in conversation before...

You funny Beth  :D

But all you say rings true ... including the "shrinkage" ! Would an FAAB have such an effect? I mean actually why not?
Have a cold sitz-bath and become a virgin - just for while?

Oh dear, now I get ideas on being even more mysterious, he-he  ::)

Axélle