Susan's Place Transgender Resources

http://facialteam.eu/surgical-team/ (http://facialteam.eu/surgical-team/)

Just looking for info, since their clinic in located on the same country I reside. What I wonder is why on the spanish version of the website they only show five or six procedures and in the english version the full catalogue appears.

I don't know how much it can cost, and my maximum budget was of 25.000€. I'm going to need a few operations...

 The before and afters look pretty lack-lustre. He seems like a bit of a minimalist... though, he does do a nice nose. But then again - who doesn't? Besides doctor Z.

I can't say I've ever heard of him, though.

Dunno, but to the the before / after pics they have look quite good. Not that I want an overdone face. The subtler, the better.

Quote from: Apples on August 14, 2012, 02:43:45 AM
Not that I want an overdone face. The subtler, the better.

I definitely identify with this. I just think the subtleties could have been better-done... but at least the results at least appear to be fairly consistent. Good find. :)

When I get FFS, I certainly don't want a butcher. My face is almost perfect as it is, with some fatal flaws. They change everything, but their resolution would do the same.

I will propably ask for VFFS to get an idea, but the most important thing until I decide on doing is start managing and saving more money, just in case.

I recently got a quote from the Facial Team (Drs Simon, Capitan, Kaye).

* Forehead modification
* Eyebrow lift
* Rhinoplasty
* Jaw contouring
* Sliding genioplasty
* Trachea shave (retouch, free of charge)

~16.250 Euro (roughly $20.000 US-Dollar) including VAT, pre-exams, anesthesia and hospital costs for 1 night (in Marbella, Spain).

With flight, costs for transports, accomodation, medication and food I would be somewhere around 17.500 Euro.

Quote from: aibeecee on August 15, 2012, 06:35:36 AM
I recently got a quote from the Facial Team.

* Forehead modification
* Eyebrow lift
* Rhinoplasty
* Jaw contouring
* Sliding genioplasty

~16.250 Euro including pre-exams, anesthesia and hospital costs for 1 night (in Marbella, Spain).

With flight, costs for transports, accomodation and food I would be somewhere around 17.500 Euro.

Thanks. Add ato that a bit of work on the hair for me (line and implants), and it should fit into my budget. Luckily, trasportation is cheaper for me, and I can get the consultation on Madrid.

Fun Fact: The fine you get for not cleaning after your dog's poop in Marbella is more expensive than all the surgeries together.


Crap, I sooo much want to do this. I need to keep with the cardio and weight lifting to keep me occupied.

Yes, I too think about going with the Facial Team but I'm still undecided. There are a lot of FF surgeons who work very good but their prices can vary a lot.

Funny about the poop issue in Madrid! Haha.  :D

No no, Marbella. In Madrid is pretty much the normal thing, 300-600€.

They have a consultation office in Madrid (Spain's centre, 4 hours to get there), but the clinic is a the south of the country, in one of the most expensive places to live.

Marbella is an expensive destination, I agree.

Costs isn't everything to me but I would seriously consider another surgeon if I would pay only half of the price compared to others.

Aibee, small question; About trachial shave (retouch). You already got a trachial shave previously?

Yes, three years ago. Mine was very prominent. The ENT surgeon said she couldn't remove all of it without risking the vocal folds. There is still a slight prominence left which is visible from the front and lateral perspective. I posted a picture of it in this forum some time ago.

Facial Team wrote me they would do a retouch free of charge and without endangering the voice.

Mmmf, and that's still the worst part. Apart from my big apple. They say the voice feminization does nothing or makes thing worse, but my voice at this moment simply does not work and gets in silent mode when raising the pitch. I need to get my throat checked first, at this moment voice training is impossible (just talking will extenuate me).

It is possible to train your voice to sound more feminine. When I came out I had an office job and talked to people over the phone a lot. One day somebody called me "Mister". I was so shocked about it that I deliberately started to speak in a higher pitch. Over the years, it became habit. Nobody ever called me Mister over the phone or in conversations again.

The ENT surgeon I had Chondrolaryngoplasty with also does voice surgery. She was a baffled by my voice when we first met and said that I wouldn't need voice surgery at all. My voice is not really feminine but also not masculine anymore. Something indifferent with a tendency towards a female voice.

Speaking loudly or even screaming is something I still  find difficult, at least in a feminine manner.
There are sites with instructions for self-training in the internet. Unfortunately, I cannot give you links but they were there more than five years ago already.

I would never undergo voice surgery. It's just still poorly conceived.
http://youtu.be/wpdtWriY1eI (http://youtu.be/wpdtWriY1eI)

Usually it should work, but the fact is that I can't even raise my voice without making incredibly painful. After 2 weeks of medication I'll ask for it to be checked. I compare my voice with a normal man voice, and It is completely broken, I can't even shout or raise the volume without entering a world of pain. I hope we can find the cause of this, but my guess is that I will need to re-learn standard voice training to avoid straining myself in normal conversations. It is that bad, not to mention the constant mucosity, cough, raspiness and pain on the nodules area.

Certainly, the result of voice training will depend a lot of one's starting point. As it is with almost everything. But intense pain when raising the voice is something that seems unusual. Better have this checked before your surgeries.

the doctors are cute, but they don't really have any talent. In some of those after picture the women look more masculine O.o

Quote from: aibeecee on August 15, 2012, 07:47:31 AM
Marbella is an expensive destination, I agree.

Costs isn't everything to me but I would seriously consider another surgeon if I would pay only half of the price compared to others.

http://www.tokaiclinic.com/clinic/plastic_details.asp?surgery=Feminized%20Face,%20FFS&id=30 (http://www.tokaiclinic.com/clinic/plastic_details.asp?surgery=Feminized%20Face,%20FFS&id=30)

Excellent results and dr Pat has a yahoogroup plus a Singapore forum dedicated to him.

No extortion fees.

Quote from: Dahlia on September 06, 2012, 02:04:29 PM
http://www.tokaiclinic.com/clinic/plastic_details.asp?surgery=Feminized%20Face,%20FFS&id=30 (http://www.tokaiclinic.com/clinic/plastic_details.asp?surgery=Feminized%20Face,%20FFS&id=30)

Excellent results and dr Pat has a yahoogroup plus a Singapore forum dedicated to him.

No extortion fees.

The prices for standard surgery are really cheap, but... I wonder how much does he charges for FFS.

Quote from: Apples Mk.II on September 06, 2012, 02:16:52 PM

The prices for standard surgery are really cheap, but... I wonder how much does he charges for FFS.

There's a pricelist at the bottom of the page which includes FFS procedures

Quote from: Dahlia on September 06, 2012, 03:14:03 PM
There's a pricelist at the bottom of the page which includes FFS procedures

Thanks, I though it was only for normal. I'll need another one for hair transplants, though.


BTW, Would you wait one or two years on HRT before FFS? At least I'd like to get the trach shave as soon as possible, it's a gigantic one.

then get the trach shave. I don't get the one year rule. Most people needing FFS has more "bone" related problems.

Well, maybe if my face is filled after HRT I may not need fat grafts for the checks... Also, imagine I say "Crap, I was wrong, I'm not trans. What can I do now with this face?" (I don't think so, even prior to this I wanted to reduce the apple and brow bossing)

Since I don't think I will go full time during the first year, maybe the trach shave could wait  until I get the rest of the FFS. The shave itself won't do a lot, and getting it done in Europe is going to be quite expensive.

Quote from: Apples Mk.II on September 06, 2012, 04:06:25 PM
Well, maybe if my face is filled after HRT I may not need fat grafts for the checks... Also, imagine I say "Crap, I was wrong, I'm not trans. What can I do now with this face?" (I don't think so, even prior to this I wanted to reduce the apple and brow bossing)

Since I don't think I will go full time during the first year, maybe the trach shave could wait  until I get the rest of the FFS. The shave itself won't do a lot, and getting it done in Europe is going to be quite expensive.

Not having a browridge and an adamsapple anymore doesn't make you look strange as a man...
Cheekimplants, a(n obvious) nosejob and augmented lips, yes, they make you look very strange when you decide to go back.

even a nose job won't make you look that strange. You'll just look "perttier" but you can always be male.

That's the point, those two things have been on my list for a long time prior to realizing the GID. There would be no problem on getting only those now, but I don't feel like crossing haf the globe to do that at a reasonable prize, so it would be better to wait. If I can get the shave at a decent price in Europe it would be cool, but... Anybody knows how much does it cost? If I could get it done for 2000-2500€ I wouldn't think it twice.


The nose is going away, that's for sure. Which by the way, today I had it checked, and it is going to need a small fix to improve my breathing.

Quote from: Apples Mk.II on September 06, 2012, 04:45:19 PM
That's the point, those two things have been on my list for a long time prior to realizing the GID. There would be no problem on getting only those now, but I don't feel like crossing haf the globe to do that at a reasonable prize, so it would be better to wait. If I can get the shave at a decent price in Europe it would be cool, but... Anybody knows how much does it cost? If I could get it done for 2000-2500€ I wouldn't think it twice.


The nose is going away, that's for sure. Which by the way, today I had it checked, and it is going to need a small fix to improve my breathing.

yanhee hospital trach shave=approx 860$

yanhee hospital nose job=approx 2000$

Flight from spain? I dunno :P

Leave the flights to me, xD. One of the good things of working for the EU is that with staff flying constantly, they really know how to get cheap tickets.



Damn, I've been wanting to visit Astoria for years.

Quote from: Apples Mk.II on September 06, 2012, 05:06:54 PM
Leave the flights to me, xD. One of the good things of working for the EU is that with staff flying constantly, they really know how to get cheap tickets.



Damn, I've been wanting to visit Astoria for years.

Astoria, Queens? We have a lot of greeks here, no thai surgeons though :P.

Not related to FFS ;D. Astoria, Oregon. It's more of a personal pilgrimage, but I HAVE to visit that place.

Quote from: Apples Mk.II on September 06, 2012, 05:11:44 PM
Not related to FFS ;D. Astoria, Oregon. It's more of a personal pilgrimage, but I HAVE to visit that place.

that's...um...random.

Oregon? Really? Really??

Happens from time to time.

Found a few extra ones:

http://www.ivanmanero.com/en (http://www.ivanmanero.com/en)

http://www.barnaclinic.com/en_especialidades/44/gender-identity-clinic (http://www.barnaclinic.com/en_especialidades/44/gender-identity-clinic)

I've contacted the first one for an aproximated prize. Still a bit too early, but when it comes to calculating budget, it's better to it as early as possible

Quote from: Apples Mk.II on September 07, 2012, 02:38:40 AM
Happens from time to time.

Found a few extra ones:

http://www.ivanmanero.com/en (http://www.ivanmanero.com/en)

http://www.barnaclinic.com/en_especialidades/44/gender-identity-clinic (http://www.barnaclinic.com/en_especialidades/44/gender-identity-clinic)

I've contacted the first one for an aproximated prize. Still a bit too early, but when it comes to calculating budget, it's better to it as early as possible

cute doctors, but barely any results. I wouldn't trust them with FFS for the hobo near the train station.

Quote from: Apples Mk.II on September 06, 2012, 04:06:25 PM
Well, maybe if my face is filled after HRT I may not need fat grafts for the checks... Also, imagine I say "Crap, I was wrong, I'm not trans. What can I do now with this face?" (I don't think so, even prior to this I wanted to reduce the apple and brow bossing)

Since I don't think I will go full time during the first year, maybe the trach shave could wait  until I get the rest of the FFS. The shave itself won't do a lot, and getting it done in Europe is going to be quite expensive.

nah you wont regret ffs even if you realise you're not trans , youll just be able to rock a look like andrej pejic

im more worried about dying from the procedure becuase i dont have a strong belief in a afterlife and i am not ready to go yet :p but i need ffs

Just received a reply with an estimated price for the trach shave...


4100-4900€. (5247-6265 usd)

Quote from: mementomori on September 09, 2012, 02:42:24 AM
im more worried about dying from the procedure becuase i dont have a strong belief in a afterlife and i am not ready to go yet :p but i need ffs

It is highly unlikely you'll die, but that doesn't really matter because if there is no afterlife you will never know you died anyway. While being prepped for all three of my operations I tried to take in as much of the experience as I could. I particularly focused on the sensation of being put under while wondering if it was anything like dying. Having my surgeries were definitely among the coolest experiences I've ever had.

Quote from: Apples Mk.II on September 10, 2012, 11:48:06 AM
Just received a reply with an estimated prize for the trach shave...


4100-4900€. (5247-6265 usd)

That sounds high for a trach shave. Isn't it?

Prize? Is that sarcasm or misspelling? That's a lot for just a tracheal shave.

Quote from: Felicitá on September 10, 2012, 12:00:30 PM
Prize? Is that sarcasm or misspelling? That's a lot for just a tracheal shave.

I might not have problems with loose/lose, but that word is my personal bane.


I had been doing several web searchs and when I found that amount, I could not believe it, so I had to ask. Usually the number is followed by "And they shave next to nothing!"

Quote from: Apples Mk.II on September 10, 2012, 11:48:06 AM
Just received a reply with an estimated price for the trach shave...


4100-4900€. (5247-6265 usd)

Dr Heino Davids in Luedenscheid, Germany (Maerkische Kliniken) does tracheal shaves quite well. He is the clinic director, ENT surgeon and a very friendly man. I still have a quote from him from 2010. Roughly ~600 Euro plus hospital-related costs. Would be somewhere around 800-1500 Euro total, depending whether the patient chooses local or general anaesthesia.

I know of two German TS's who had their Adam's Apples reduced with him.

Btw, I had my shave in Halle, Germany with Dr Kerstin Hoffmann in 2009 and paid 1800 Euro (local anaesthesia).