Susan's Place Transgender Resources

 I recently saw a sweet girl (20s) with a Adams apple. I looked her way and made eye contact several times and then she smirked and rolled her eyes like "damm... who's the old pervert? "And walked away.
Is there a secret phrase/ handshake? :-\

Sweetie,

the last thing IF we are finally 'stealth' and "... if some grass has grown over an odd situation (transition) – surely along comes 'camel' and chews it all off again..."

The above is a saying by a German poet and writer Erich Kästner, ... before I be misunderstood for being bitchy or something :)

The point?
We, who have fully transitioned do NOT WANT to be outed, not even by the friendliest of folks, like I'm sure you are.

And for anything as a greeting: "Hello and how are you today?" should be just perfectly alright, um.  :)

Axélle

I think you'll hear a chorus of "No matter what you may think you know about someone, keep it to yourself" Not trying to be rude here. Hugs, Devlyn

You don't do anything. You act just as you would have if you didn't suspect anything.

Quote from: joann on August 18, 2012, 09:51:46 AM
I recently saw a sweet girl (20s) with a Adams apple. I looked her way and made eye contact several times and then she smirked and rolled her eyes like "damm... who's the old pervert? "And walked away.
Is there a secret phrase/ handshake? :-\

Generally speaking? NO!

There is no secret phrase/look or handshakes. It tends to be the norm not to stare or try and get acknowledgment from a suspected TG person you see at random in public. Simply by virtue of the perceived reaction you received from her.

If she was new to the situation, her 'antenna' would have been focused internally; forever checking, "Am I passing?" and she wouldn't have been 'scanning' outwardly looking for signs in you, to see if you were perhaps one.

Only when you are 100% comfortable and presenting as yourself, can you even attempt to approach a new person. And that approach should never be front on, but, always be, with a big smile, coming from behind on one side of them, walking at the same pace, not stopping, unless they do. Then say something like; "You must be new to the area. A group of us girls have lunch/dinner/coffee regularly at ?? ?? ?? and would love to have you join us if you are free. If you have any questions, here's my phone number. Hope you can make it. It would be lovely to see you there." Then leave immediately, with purpose (as though you are late for a meeting) unless you sense she may want to ask questions now.

Be safe, well and happy.
Lotsa huggs
Catherine

There is a gal at my school who is as tall or taller than I am (5'10")  and she has an Adams apple.  But she is totally cis.  And Adams apple is not proof of being Trans.

The only time you can say or do anything to reflect that the person in question is Trans, is when you are in a group of transsexual/transgendered people.

Quote from: Ms. OBrien on August 18, 2012, 10:34:01 AM
There is a gal at my school who is as tall or taller than I am (5'10")  and she has an Adams apple.  But she is totally cis.  And Adams apple is not proof of being Trans.

The only time you can say or do anything to reflect that the person in question is Trans, is when you are in a group of transsexual/transgendered people.

This. But I know the feeling, where I clock someone, I usually try and give them a compliment if the situation allows it, or just let it slide; nothing is worse than being called out.

I had a lady out me once. I almost ate her. Best idea is to not :P

Quote from: Ms. OBrien on August 18, 2012, 10:34:01 AM
There is a gal at my school who is as tall or taller than I am (5'10")  and she has an Adams apple.  But she is totally cis.  And Adams apple is not proof of being Trans.

The only time you can say or do anything to reflect that the person in question is Trans, is when you are in a group of transsexual/transgendered people.

That was my initial thought "can females have a AA?" i guess that's why i didn't say anything.

I only met one person who i thought to be transsexual, it was in a train. She had short hair and a masculine face but was wearing a skirt and leggings. I got really nervous, as she sat next to me. I didn't want to make her feel uncomfortable that's why i didn't look in her direction a lot. I guess the way you should treat a TG/TS person is exactly like any other person, like they deserve. Sure i'd love to talk and be fascinated but i don't think she would liked it. Interesting about the Adams Apple by the way. I didn't know women could have prominent Adams Apples as well.

Even within the "safe" confines of my TG group meeting I wouldn't dare make any assumptions of anyones birth gender. We have both MTFs and FTMs. With some you'd have no idea at all, except maybe to be 180 degrees out of sync with reality. Forget about even thinking that out on the street with total strangers you stand a half chance of reading a TG and being absolutely sure. In fact, back in the late 70's it was'nt rare in NYC for a GG to say she was a trans, just to blow off a guy hitting on her. You just cannot know for sure.

As others have noted, the LAST thing most of us want is acknowledgement that we were read! By ANYONE! (and that includes ourselves). I settle for "you look OK" when I look in the mirror and cherrish the days when I can say "You look F'n GREAT!" before I go out, or better yet when I return home. The other times I change my outfit or redo my makeup.

A small aside - My wife (30 years post-op) and myself often wondered about Lady Gaga, simply for the fact that she looked too perfect. Conversly, Madonna, IMHO, tends to look like an old drag queen these days when not performing.

Caveat Emptor

You simply do not.

Under no circumstance do you tell a trans person you have clocked them. Ever!

Lots of ways. Same as approaching someone you suspect is cis:

1. Excuse me. I couldn't help noticing the skirt you're wearing. It really looks good on you. Where do you shop?

2. Hot for this time of year, isn't it?

3. Pardon me, but do you know if I can get the number 12 bus from here?

...

If they're interested in being friendly, they'll respond, if not, they'll give you the brush off. Of course you won't learn whether they're Trans or not, but you may make a new friend.

I look at it kind of like greeting someone who looks pregnant. If you're wrong and she's not pregnant, she may be offended. If you're right, she may be offended. While there is a chance she's pregnant and would like to discuss it, the risks of offense aren't worth it.

If she's not pregnant, asking or otherwise acting as if you think she might be could make her feel self-conscious (read: fat) for the rest of the day. If she is pregnant, she may not want it pointed out for a host of reasons. Maybe she is pregnant but with friends or family she hasn't broken the news to. Your encounter may put her in an uncomfortable position.

It's not safe to assume that just because you're a pregnant woman also, she'll appreciate you 'clocking her' (especially if she just needs a few sit-ups).
Best not to make any assumptions. Let her bring it up.

"Hello" should do it.  If you become friends they may out themselves.

Agreeing vigorously with those above me. I don't think there's any code like "friend of Harry Benjamin" for trans folks, the same way that gays could say "I'm a friend of Dorothy" or 12 steppers alluding to Bill W.

However, if you do want to be able to connect with someone who is trans, if and as they are comfortable, you can wear a button or have some other signifier that you are in the community. Even if it's tiny, chances are they'll see it.

Don't forget a lot of 'normal looking and acting' men have hidden T tendencies themselves and recognize T's from a mile away.

While you think you're clocked by a 'normal' guy it could be he's a hidden T.

I would do nothing, because that is what I would want others to do unto me. Just smile like I do to everyone else I tend to pass. I would say nothing unless the need arose.

I feel like such a douchebag because before I realized I was trans I was really hateful--not intentionally though--towards two people I met once.
One was a transguy who I thought was just a lesbian. I constantly referred to him as her. And when others tried to correct me I acted confused. I hope to one day meet him and apologize for my ignorant hatred.
The other was a transgirl. I saw her with a corset on and was actually fascinated by the corset, as I had just bought one. I went up to her and--I really have no way of knowing for sure like others have said, its none of my business unless they chose to tell me--but when I saw her I just stared at her. I didn't know what to say. It was part nerves, part shock. I feel so cruel, as she must have been thinking a million thoughts. Now I know what it feels like to have to worry about being misgenderd, ridiculed, stared at, hated.
That I caused pain to those two people really makes me feel bad. I can't believe how stupid and idiotic I was. I confess that I was an apathetic hater.

I entered a department store and the obviously gay greeter smiled and nodded slowly in acknowledgement. It was an innocuous gesture but  I was still quite offended. He should have just smiled.

The next store the female assistant greeted me with cute skoyt. That was fine.

In all honesty if someone who were Transgender had approached me with any question of my gender I would embrace them.

Sometimes stealth divides us and those who desperately are in need of advice/help/love by someone further down the transitional line than themselves, are deserving of a brother or sister to give them a little sanity and conviction in who they are

It is tricky though because terminology for TS draws a fine line between respectful and disrespectful, and being outed can diminish ones confidence with their own stealth factor, but if someone can respectfully address you I think a respectfully human conversation can be had

I wish I had more T Brothers and Sisters growing up so that some of my loneliness might have been spared

Greet the person with the same rest you would like to be treated with (sir / madam) complementing them on something or just a smile even if your T radar is singing, get to know them for being them selves not because you suspect they might be T, 

Quote from: Hippolover25 on August 20, 2012, 10:04:06 AM
Ibecause before I realized I was trans I was really hateful--not intentionally though--towards two people

A perfect example of

<Don't forget a lot of 'normal looking and acting' men have hidden T tendencies themselves and recognize T's from a mile away.

While you think you're clocked by a 'normal' guy it could be he's a hidden T.>


Thanks for sharing!

 Upon meeting another trans person, I have generally just gone out of my way to make them feel slightly more special, and to be, myself, more friendly and warm. Anything more may hurt them, so doing so should be done carefully.

The safest choice is to act no differently, but some light is often very much appreciated.

Wow... Never thought that so many would be offend at being noticed. Why do we "go out"?  Maybe what we need is a Pendant, bracelet, button, ring that discreetly says.
"Im Trans gender or LGBT, F2M, M2F, andro ect and i want you to notice" Pagans in the 80's used to ware a simple green button.
A little rainbow button maybe ?
" Hey... i like your rainbow button. Your androgen... so am i..."
A tee shirt or a cap spelling it out will probably get you kicked/ punched.
But perhaps we need to be more open. There a lot of lonely brother and sisters out there.  :'(

I want people to notice me if they find me attractive, like my personality, love the work or the hobbies I'm involved with, even like my piano playing. But never because they think I'm T. I'll probably try to avoid them, if possible.

If you "must" do something, discretely nod at them, if they nod back, and show signs of being willing to talk, then and only then do you move forward.

Mostly, treat them like you would any other person you see on the street, at the mall, etc.  You don't walk up to every stranger just because you like how they look, you give them respect.

Quote from: joann on August 21, 2012, 08:07:02 AM
Wow... Never thought that so many would be offend at being noticed. Why do we "go out"?

I don't know if being offended is the right way to put it but I do think it is highly inappropriate to go up to someone in public and start talking to them about a medical condition you suspect they might suffer from. My trans issues are playing in my mind enough as it is so I don't want to be reminded or have conversations about it with strangers on the street and in other public places. It would make me feel very uncomfortable. Other than my visits to the Suporn clinic I have never (at least not knowingly) talked to another trans-person other than on the internet.

I usually take a very special circumstance for me to talk about my condition with other, even with family or friends that have known me most of my life. While transitioning I talked peoples ears off with this stuff, I guess that's only natural, but after all was said and done I really didn't want to talk about it anymore.

never ever ever ever ever try to out a transgender person in public. Do not do this for many reasons:

1. They are not out fulltime only for people to identify them as transgender people. The only way you will know if they want to be identified as transgender is if you are at a transgender function AND they say they are transgender.

2. They are more than likely fulltime. If you go to them and say "oh hai, you are transgender?" You may crush them and they may start thinking "omg I don't pass." Many people work up enough courage to even go out in their chosen gender. You trying to be friendly can set them back into the therapy sofa.

It's just a really bad thing to do. Don't do it.

If you want to meet other transgender or identify them, then go to transgender public functions or websites.

Quote from: joann on August 21, 2012, 08:07:02 AM
Wow... Never thought that so many would be offend at being noticed. Why do we "go out"?  Maybe what we need is a Pendant, bracelet, button, ring that discreetly says.
"Im Trans gender or LGBT, F2M, M2F, andro ect and i want you to notice" Pagans in the 80's used to ware a simple green button.
A little rainbow button maybe ?
" Hey... i like your rainbow button. Your androgen... so am i..."
A tee shirt or a cap spelling it out will probably get you kicked/ punched.
But perhaps we need to be more open. There a lot of lonely brother and sisters out there.  :'(

to be honest, it is better to find out here versus finding out through someone who became offended you at you in a public forum.

With me, I am at the point where I am stealth. I do not go to transgender functions anymore. It has nothing to do with a negative attitude or an ego. I just do not identify as transgender. I have no issues identifying as being bisexual but when it comes to gender, I am female. It is what it is.

So if someone were to approach me (even in a friendly way), I would not be thinking, "oh how nice, he or she sees me as a cool transgender."  I would be thinking, "oh, f**k! What the hell did I do wrong where I am not passing." Then I would think that pretty much for the rest of the day.

Now, I understand people who wear transgender bracelets and have transgender banners on their facebooks and have almost all transgender only friends on their social networking sites. However, I am not one of those people. When it comes to gender, I am just your boring female.

"to be honest"... you're never boring!

Annah has it pretty well covered for the most part. We just don't do that any more than we would walk up to a CIS woman and ask if those rockets she is sporting are implants or what. I present andro and get odd looks from folks at times, it just doesn't phase me in the least, in fact I think my appearance as mixed gender irritates trans women more than it does CIS women. Got a really nasty lear from a fellow at the local Home Depot once, he just couldn't stop staring and leering. I said, "What are you looking at?" It was the leading question of the day for him, he couldn't answer and scurried off embarrassed that others knew that he had been staring at me. Most people are too busy with their own lives to care. But we as a community who understands, need to be extremely sensitive to others who we visually identify as one of our own.

Very well... so be it... should i see or even suspect anyone TG,TS, LGBT or otherwise I will respect your privacy, respect your space , look away. I will not make contact or attempt draw your attention.
I wont share with you the fact i love to cook and could make you the best chili you ever had. That we like the same music, Think the same about politics, philosophy, society ect... because i cant approach you because your unique.
There's nothing wrong with being unique.

Quote from: joann on August 21, 2012, 07:05:47 PM
Very well... so be it... should i see or even suspect anyone TG,TS, LGBT or otherwise I will respect your privacy, respect your space , look away. I will not make contact or attempt draw your attention.
I wont share with you the fact i love to cook and could make you the best chili you ever had. That we like the same music, Think the same about politics, philosophy, society ect... because i cant approach you because your unique.
There's nothing wrong with being unique.

No-o-o-o-o.
If you find something interesting about someone, whether it's because they may be Trans, because they're wearing a t-shirt of your favorite band, or if you're curious why they're smiling like that, make contact. Say Hi. Make conversation. Be friendly.

Just don't ask them about medical conditions you suspect they might have. If they think you ought to know, they'll tell you. In the meantime, just enjoy meeting someone new.

Sometimes its not easy.

There are some people who might be happy to talk with you, but many are just trying to live their lives and have little or no contact with the TG crowd.

You have to try to be polite and respectful of all people.  Usually if someone makes eye contact with me, I will smile or nod at them (its the polite thing to do) its how I was raised.

Smirking at another would be wrong, if this person did that to you they were in the wrong.

When you nod or smile at them, you have put the ball in their court, its then up to them if they want to respond further, if they don't, don't worry about it.  That's just life.  Move on with your day.

Quote from: joann on August 21, 2012, 07:05:47 PM
Very well... so be it... should i see or even suspect anyone TG,TS, LGBT or otherwise I will respect your privacy, respect your space , look away. I will not make contact or attempt draw your attention.
I wont share with you the fact i love to cook and could make you the best chili you ever had. That we like the same music, Think the same about politics, philosophy, society ect... because i cant approach you because your unique.
There's nothing wrong with being unique.

There is a BIG difference approaching someone and informing them you may suspect them to be a transsexual vs. approaching someone saying, "hey I think we like the same music or philosophy."

There is nothing wrong with being unique. I do embrace some uniqueness about myself. However, I do not advertise the world what kind of genitals I had been born with...or my sexual orientation. When it comes to me being female, I am female. I have enough "uniqueness" to worry about...I don't need to share with my job and the public intimate details about my privates ;)

I am more than willing to swap our favorite chili recipes with you...not because you are a transsexual. But because you are someone who wants to swap chili recipes.

I guess if I want to make contact with others of like mindI should advertise the fact and let people make up there own minds if they wish to make contact. Dont try to draw them out. Point taken.

But back to my original question. If I were to "advertise" what should I do,
A tee shirt that says "Androgyny now ask me how"?
The good ole rainbow pin?

If you were interested in connecting with lets say "Gender unique" people What would get your attention and make you tap on my shoulder and ask what do you mean by that?  (in a kind way)

I think your best bet is trying to find a Support Group that meets locally.  That would help you find the companionship you seem to be looking for.  I met with a group in Denver when I first found out there was such a thing as transgendered.

Think i found what i am looking for
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frlv.zcache.com%2Ftransgender_equality_flag_button-p145474507136630915en872_216.jpg%3Fmax_dim%3D328&hash=41715998e87048073c856dae41c3670a8b08425d)

They have a lot of LGBT items.

http://www.zazzle.com/transgender+gifts (http://www.zazzle.com/transgender+gifts)

Hey Joann,
I kind of cringed when I read the initial post because I was bracing for the responses you'd receive, lol. It's kinda hard to explain, I think, unless you are transitioned and living as your desired gender. Certainly everyone doesn't feel the way most of the people responded to, but I think the #'s are high enough to think twice about approaching. Your idea of wearing the trans flag is probably good. I'm guessing it won't get ts to talk to you, but will probably end up having random strangers say "what does the mean?" at which point you could be an awesome ally and explain what it is. It's hard to explain how I feel about it. I mean a lot of what others said I agree with, but I'm a really nice person irl so I don't think I'd be rude or anything. I would certainly be taken aback and the conversation we'd have would probably end up with you thinking "huh, that was kinda strange, she was like preoccupied or didn't want to talk or something." The thing is, like most of us just live our lives. We come online and we're like "Rah Rah Trans!!!" but it's because irl we aren't like that much. So this is the outlet. I think that can give a false impression sometimes that online community = irl community and online attitudes/feelings/etc = irl attitudes/feelings/etc. Just remember that this is where a lot of people go to kind of be anonymous and talk about things as an outlet. If there are any support groups around you, maybe go to one. If there aren't, maybe make a weekend trip to a city that has one so you can meet and talk to people in a safe space. Good luck :) Meghan

I have found a support group and a think its going to be good for me.
I guess for me ive spent the past 30 years friendless because i dont relate to cis males. The only friends i ever made were gay or bi. So I have nowhere else to look for folks of like mind or at least an open mind other then the LGBT community (And the pagan community too). :)

Quote from: joann on August 22, 2012, 08:58:05 AM
I guess if I want to make contact with others of like mindI should advertise the fact and let people make up there own minds if they wish to make contact. Dont try to draw them out. Point taken.

But back to my original question. If I were to "advertise" what should I do,
A tee shirt that says "Androgyny now ask me how"?
The good ole rainbow pin?

If you were interested in connecting with lets say "Gender unique" people What would get your attention and make you tap on my shoulder and ask what do you mean by that?  (in a kind way)

I would say the best way is to meet up with like minded people at a group Transgender support meeting. From there, you all pretty much know in there "here and now" that you all are adrogen/trans/etc. This way, you don't have to take a gamble of offending someone or not by clocking them...because everyone pretty much knows who you are simply by participation.

From there, I would meet new people in those groups and develop friendships of like mindedness.

I used to be in the steps you are in right now. I had the trans bracelets and the trans flags. I was the trans rep for my school. It was trans this and that.

Eventually, something happened (not good or bad...just neutral) where I didn't really identify myself with being trans anymore. My facebook mentions nothing of it, my youtube videos that were trans related has been blocked from the public and my transblogs are limited. I just do not feel that way anymore. Not saying my way is right or wrong. But I am saying I can certainly relate to your question of "where can I talk about this other than an internet."

The groups is the first step. This way you can meet other people in a safe environment and then you can branch out from there.

I hope this helps!

I think i get it. For me my transition is the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm in love with it, infatuated. I want to reach out, share my transformation.
But others who have transitioned are glad its all over, an awkward time of the past, and just want to live there new lives in peace?
If i remain androgen I suspect i will never feel that. Ill always be in between.
Fair enough.
Maybe they will see my button and say "Maybe i could help hir " :)

Quote from: joann on August 22, 2012, 11:48:16 AM
I think i get it. For me my transition is the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm in love with it, infatuated. I want to reach out, share my transformation.
But others who have transitioned are glad its all over, an awkward time of the past, and just want to live there new lives in peace?

I know what you mean. In the beginning I was totally euphoric about the whole thing falling all over myself with joy and totally living it. I doused my friends, family and everyone I met with it. After about 1 year it kind of tapered off and at 3 years when I was all done I was very tired of it all quiet as a door mouse about the whole thing. In hindsight I think I was a little too out about it and probably should have kept a few things more private. For the past six year, up until a few months ago when I came here, I didn't talk about it, read about, watch youtube videos about it or visit websites about it. My husband obviously knows but we don't talk about it. I don't know if you will eventually follow the same pattern but I think it's a pretty common thing to just want to move on and let the past be the past once one has made it all the way through.

Quote from: MariaMx on August 22, 2012, 12:46:17 PM
I know what you mean. In the beginning I was totally euphoric about the whole thing falling all over myself with joy and totally living it. I doused my friends, family and everyone I met with it. After about 1 year it kind of tapered off and at 3 years when I was all done I was very tired of it all quiet as a door mouse about the whole thing. In hindsight I think I was a little too out about it and probably should have kept a few things more private. For the past six year, up until a few months ago when I came here, I didn't talk about it, read about, watch youtube videos about it or visit websites about it. My husband obviously knows but we don't talk about it. I don't know if you will eventually follow the same pattern but I think it's a pretty common thing to just want to move on and let the past be the past once one has made it all the way through.

Ditto, except husband. Husband? OMG, I'm so jealous!

I find it a lot like "finding religion."

When it happens, you jump from rooftop to rooftop announcing the wonderful event that has started in your life. You'll tell your friends, family, ..even complete strangers. You'll buy tshirts, ribbons, wrists bracelets, car bumper stickers and pins that affixed to your backpack or shirt.

After awhile, the level of excitement tends to go away. However, the important decision lies within yourself to determine on what level you continue with it.

I know some andros that settle back into a sense of "meh" and I've seen some that sports shirts than says "Ask me about me!" With rainbow clouds.

Either way is the right way and there is no wrong way :)

Quote from: Felicitá on August 22, 2012, 01:18:39 PM
Ditto, except husband. Husband? OMG, I'm so jealous!

Yes, a husband, indeed. He is pretty terrific and we have a very easy going  marriage with very little drama. I was so sure I would end up alone but things work out by them selves every now and then, ie. it just happened. Sometimes I wonder if I got married too "young" and missed out on some of the post-op adventures so many girls are talking about, but I'm a happy with my life now and that's really all that matters.

Quote from: MariaMx on August 22, 2012, 04:01:44 PM
Yes, a husband, indeed. He is pretty terrific and we have a very easy going  marriage with very little drama. I was so sure I would end up alone but things work out by them selves every now and then, ie. it just happened. Sometimes I wonder if I got married too "young" and missed out on some of the post-op adventures so many girls are talking about, but I'm a happy with my life now and that's really all that matters.

Glad to here that.. :)

Two random thoughts:

Gender dysphoria to me is like an illness. Once you have your HRT and SRS, it is in remission, if not cured. I can't imagine wanting to chat about my cured illness to random strangers UNLESS I think I can help them do something I've already done. But I wouldn't trust any random stranger, TS or not, enough on a first meeting to do even that.

Other thing is it takes one to know one. Meaning, I guarantee all of us here can clock others of our family far more easily than a random stranger could clock us, simply because we've spend sometimes our entire lives studying those minute, myriad little things that make someone passable (or not) as the gender we'd like to present as. So while you're clocking that strange new tgirl in the grocery department, she's already clocked you too. You can just say hi and leave it at that, see where it goes from there.

I treat everyone with respect and courtesy. Their background and life's interests are theirs to share if they desire. I never ask or presume. My reason? I'm often wrong. It's best to keep my mouth shut for issues like this. I'm friendly to everyone I meet and I hold no favorites when it comes to "types" of people. Everyone is a treasure in some way. I do find myself defending the most unlikely people in a most public way, though ;) It only happens a couple times a year. But if I hear someone making fun of someone or a minority to shame them, I will give them a loud verbal lashing that brings the wrath of any crowd down upon them. I know I've strayed from the question... bad Cindi... bad Cindi.

I'll share an embarrassingly harsh lesson I learned several years ago:

I was inspecting the exterior of a lady's home, and in the process was trying to break the ice with small talk and be personable. I had noticed that though she had a nice trim figure that she had a little tummy that looked like a baby bubble. We seemed to be hitting it off fine until I asked her when the new baby was due. She said, "I'm not pregnant, I'm just fat!"  :icon_redface: That was a huge (OH SH**) moment. And you'd think I would have learned something, but NOOOO! I thought that she had just a great tan and so I proceeded to ask her where she got such a great tan out of season, assuming that she had been vacationing in Hawaii or Mexico. She said, "It's not a tan, I'm black!"  :icon_yikes: I was almost terminated by my employer who said that I was the first person he had ever met who could have both feet in their mouth and still walk! I'm embarrassed even now as I recall that incident, it's just plain stupid to make any comments to anyone who you know nothing about, in fact it could even show arrogance to assume that you know what's going on in their very personal life based on appearances when you know nothing about them.

Kinda late to this but just something I'd like to add.

Keep in mind the secondary effects that dealing with GID can have on people. Sometimes it can make people naturally introverted, withdrawn, or uncomfortable in social situations. This isn't the case for everyone, but something to be aware of whenever you interact with folks, even in a like-minded community environment, is that having something in common with a person doesn't always mean you have something in common with them, if you get what I'm trying to say.

Whether they are open about themselves or not, it may be the case that they feel awkward or anxious during interactions simply because in dealing with their inner self-determination, those feelings and behavioural processes are a by-product of it. I find it useful to observe the way someone is before making any sort of approach, even in a like-minded setting. Body language, mannerisms, overall comportment can tell you a lot about how someone will react and how any sort of conversation is likely to go.

Whether the prospective conversations are related to gender or not, GID can sometimes affect people in far reaching ways, not immediately apparent. Someone you don't know may not want to talk because they feel some things are a deeply personal matter, but some may just not know how to go about it because they're not used to human interaction, or anyone being interested in them.

Just something to keep in mind. Be patient, and watchful.