Susan's Place Transgender Resources

This topic started from a misunderstanding in an article. Not really worth going though it.



All right, sooner or later I had to come out with this question.

From what I can gather, on a normal HRT regime erections lose strength and dissappear over time, there is a great shrinkage of testicles and a bit on the penis itself... They may became painful, libido goes away... The logical thing.


And then we have the porn stars, scorts, etc. Incredibly feminine bodies and fully working male penises with absolutely no athropy. How the heck do they pull that?

The logical answer seems to be something like low dosage of HRT + a lot of feminization surgery. Adding Viagra for extra effect. But... This has to be incredibly harmful for the body, isn't it? From what I could read, keeping the testis may even have an "aging" effect on the body. I don't think they would be able to pull this for a prolonged period until health problems start to appearing.

Explanation: Smoke and mirrors. Not really TG, just surgery, silicone injections everywhere to look female and ready to milk the cash cow


Sorry if this feels so gross, but that subgenre really gets on my nerves, with its ability to defy normal logic.

Well, teh effect of hrt doesn't always have to be as dramatic as you are led to believe. Though I never tried to do any sort of penetrating while pre-op it might still very well have been possible. For me the mystery is more about how they bring themselves to do it rather than how they are able to physically do it (not that I personally think it is in any way wrong for anyone to want to do it). That said, I don't know of any way to spare the penis and testicles the effects of hrt. Personally I did not care one iota if my rubbish went non-functional. Once you go on hrt  maybe you'll gain a clearer picture of what your needs are before the effects become irreversible.

Quote from: Apples Mk.II on August 25, 2012, 03:03:39 PM
To be honest, I seriously doubt I want to keep erections. Last times I used it, penetrative sex felt so wrong and unnatural that it stopped working. In fact, save for the morning wood it rarely ever works properly... Getting rid of it would be quite an improvement, if I wasn't so afraid of surgery.

Ha, I used to be too. In the beginning it was especially the forehead reconstruction that freaked me out. Now I love surgery. It's such a rush it completely blows my mind. I think I've become messed up in the head or something. Sadly though, I've completed FFS, SRS and BA, 22 hour on the table in total, and there is nothing more worth having done.

Topic edited. Let's stick to the subject of the original post.

Keep in mind that "->-bleeped-<-" is sometimes considered a derogatory term.

Quote from: Jamie D on August 25, 2012, 03:13:33 PM
Keep in mind that "->-bleeped-<-" is sometimes considered a derogatory term.

Sorry. I thought it was ok to use it for the "sex worker / scort". Not referring to TG.

QuoteFrom what I could read, keeping the testis may even have an "aging" effect on the body. I don't think they would be able to pull this for a prolonged period until health problems start to appearing.

Sounds like an MTF 'urban myth' to me...could you please clarify?

Btw:  derogatory word actresses are usually (very) young. 35+ derogatory actresses,  do they exist?

Quote from: Dahlia on August 25, 2012, 03:20:15 PM
Btw:  derogatory word actresses are usually (very) young. 35+ derogatory actresses,  do they exist?

That's what bugs me. My guess is that sooner or later they would get out of the business and finish transition. I only know two on that age range, and one already went though SRS.

Quote from: Dahlia on August 25, 2012, 03:20:15 PM
Sounds like an MTF 'urban myth' to me...could you please clarify?

It's something I found while trying to gather info about orchyectomy, SRS and prolonged intake of pre-op HRT. I'm trying to find it again, but there was something quite strange, mentioning how keeping the factories ended causing some sort of premature aging and other effects.

Quote from: Apples Mk.II on August 25, 2012, 02:09:34 PM
All right, sooner or later I had to come out with this question.

From what I can gather, on a normal HRT regime erections lose strength and disappear over time, there is a great shrinkage of testicles and a bit on the penis itself... They may became painful, libido goes away... The logical thing. The head would start working more like a clitoris on what it comes to sensation, Orgasms would be more female like...



And then we have the "->-bleeped-<-s", that porn subculture. Incredibly feminine bodies and fully working male penises with absolutely no athropy. How the heck do they pull that?

The logical answer seems to be something like low dosage of HRT + a lot of feminization surgery. Adding Viagra for extra effect. But... This has to be incredibly harmful for the body, isn't it? From what I could read, keeping the testis may even have an "aging" effect on the body. I don't think they would be able to pull this for a prolonged period until health problems start to appearing.

Dunno. If you ask your doctor and GID therapist "I feel like a woman and I want to be on HRT, but for the moment I want to keep a fully working male genitalia until I am sure of SRS, or make the transition more gradual", would they approve it?


Sorry if this feels so gross, but that subgenre really gets on my nerves, with its ability to defy normal logic.

Les call them  "female-bodied individuals with a working penis (FBIWIPS)"  to satisfy the "politically correct" majority, Ok

So, to the best of my knowledge all FBIWIPS who make money out of practicing both sides of the fence, DO NOT take anti-androgens or estrogens; most of their feminizing is courtesy of the scalp and/or the make up and other props. Also for your delight I should mention that injection of certain opioids at the base of the penis do cause a temporary erection, a practice common among paraplegics and FBIWIPS

Quote from: peky on August 25, 2012, 03:28:39 PM
So, to the best of my knowledge all FBIWIPS who make money out of practicing both sides of the fence, DO NOT take anti-androgens or estrogens; most of their feminizing is courtesy of the scalp and/or the make up and other props.

Thanks. That makes more sense, and the sculpted abs you can see sometimes. So a lot of them could not even be real transgendered people?

Quote from: Apples Mk.II on August 25, 2012, 03:28:11 PM
That's what bugs me. My guess is that sooner or later they would get out of the business and finish transition. I only know two on that age range, and one already went though SRS.

I've heard several of them reverted back to living as men again, after their porn career has ended.

QuoteIt's something I found while trying to gathe info about orchyectomy, SRS and prolonged intake of pre-op HRT. I'm trying to find it again, but there was something quite strange, mentioning how keeping the factories ended causing some sort of premature aging and other effects.

Really? Hope you'll find it again, would be an interesting read!
[/quote]

Regarding the use of "->-bleeped-<-"

Just keep in mind that some might be offended.

In this case, the original post referred to a genre of films and entertainment.

Found it. This is more or less the original reason I had for creating this thread:

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html (http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html)

QuoteUnfortunately, the option of TG transition often leads to difficult long-term passing and health issues. TG/TS women and she-males who do not undergo SRS must continue to take very large "preop-level" doses of estrogen and anti-androgen year after year if they want to retain their feminine secondary sex characteristics. Therefore, they risk likely liver damage and major health problems unless they make difficult tradeoffs between feminization and those health risks. If they must drop back to safe "postop-level" doses of hormones for health reasons, the testosterone produced by their testicles inevitably causes a steady coarsening of their features. Testosterone also escalates the aging process in TG transitioners, robbing them of their youthful beauty much earlier in life than is the case for postop TS women (this effect has long been known in the gay male "drag queen" community). TG transitioners and she-males who were once very soft and pretty in their teens and twenties may have great difficulty finding male companions and lovers as they grow into their 40's and beyond. Old age can become a frighteningly lonely time for such people, and this factor should be carefully considered before undertaking a TG transition.

In many cases, TG transitioners eventually elect to undergo an orchiectomy (castration). Castration is a much simpler, less expensive and less painful surgery than SRS. It frees the TG transitioner of the health problems caused by testosterone, eliminating the need to take high levels of cross-sex hormones. TG transitioners having strong libidos can continue to enjoy penile erections and orgasms after castration, and thus continue to enjoy the male aspects of their sexuality. All in all, orchieictomy is an important option for TG transitioners to consider.

I am still questioning myself about if I want to transition for the wrong reasons. A lot of things finally make sense after that many years trying to know what was wrong with me and my life, but there are still two things I can't fit in the puzzle. One of them is the "Why do I want to be a girl now and not 20 years ago" (I believe it is because I regarded it as impossible while I was a kid, and believed it to be some sort of sick fantasy that ran on background for 20 years until I discovered that change was possible), and the other is "Why am I afraid of a full transition, can only identify myself as Transgender and I don't mind keeping the original?" (yet I don't dislike the idea of SRS).


The "->-bleeped-<-" (yes, referring to the industry) thing was odd for me since it did not fit logically into any Trans pattern and made me question if after some time they would finish transition prior to the negative effects described in the quote from that text, but if a lot of them are only surgery and go back to man mode, we can remove them from the equation.



Edit: Looks like I didn't completely remember the article. The ageing process would happen if the HRT levels would need to be reduced to post-op levels in case of health risk while keeping the testicles. Which is why I was considering orchy at least.

"If they must drop back to safe "postop-level" doses of hormones for health reasons.."

Well, I've been on full HRT and anti-androgens since 1994. My liver function is fine, as is my health. I also look far younger than my chronological age.

Quote from: Apples Mk.II on August 25, 2012, 03:41:48 PM

Thanks. That makes more sense, and the sculpted abs you can see sometimes. So a lot of them could not even be real transgendered people?

99.99 are not transgender folks, just individuals making a buck.

Quote from: Felicitá on August 25, 2012, 04:49:44 PM
"If they must drop back to safe "postop-level" doses of hormones for health reasons.."

Yes, that is the part I could not remember. The idea of that HRT causing"health issues" on the long run was stuck in my mind.


Reading more about the porn industry and how they can achieve those bodies without HRT...

QuoteIt's called subcutaneous silicone injections. Every see that clear goop that comes in a tube, and you put it in a caulking gun and use it to seal around things that need to be waterproof. That is silicone. These people take that stuff, put it into a syringe, and inject it under their skin. They do it in any place they want to have more curves, like the hips, buttocks, thighs, cheeks, and breasts. Those "wide" hips are not due to the people having a wider pelvis, they are due to the silicone.

I think I'm going to puke... Seriously, I'm staying away from porn from now on. This is not only disgusting, but completely offensive.

Everyone is different. Everyone's physiology is also different. I'm 27 and have been on max dosages of Estradiol and Spiro for 2 years... and guess what... I've had zero shrinkage and can still get and maintain an erection! Wow! Shocking right? Not really. It happens. Nothing to due with opioid injections either. Not something I'm proud of either, which is why I'm taking more permanent measures to fix it.

As far as "porn stars" go. I have several MTF friends that are "adult entertainers"... and yes there are some tricks used, but for the most part, there are many, just like us, that are doing it to get money for SRS, school, rent, you name it. Why judge them? Honestly, the ones I've met and have as friends are very nice people and pretty down to earth. I might not agree with their chosen profession, but I'm not going to condemn them on the whole either. They are people in transition just like us. The few I know personally as friends, came from outside the US and wanted to transition, and "porn" was their ticket. Their only, last, and best option. Sometimes I'm shocked at how some members here rapidly and without cause will judge people.

Quote from: JennX on August 25, 2012, 06:46:46 PM
the US and wanted to transition, and "porn" was their ticket. Their only, last, and best option.

I was thinking about that as a possible reason (I if were younger and without a job I would have considered it), but when I heard about "individual folks making a buck", it really upset me.


And to think 10 years ago I'd prostitute myself on my field of expertise in order to reach the end of the month... Guess I'm not that different.

Quote from: Apples Mk.II on August 25, 2012, 06:58:59 PM
I was thinking about that as a possible reason (I if were younger and without a job I would have considered it), but when I heard about "individual folks making a buck", it really upset me.


And to think 10 years ago I'd prostitute myself on my field of expertise in order to reach the end of the month... Guess I'm not that different.

Yeah and I'm sure there are those like you mentioned that do exist. I'm just saying that from the people I've met and have as friends, they did it cause they had no other choice. Some came from very messed up-homes, were beaten, abused, raped, and faced far worse futures if they stayed in their home countries. Like all things in life, there's always some good and some bad.

Sometimes trans women who need to retain functionality to do sex work will take higher doses of hormones in the form of shots, sporadically. (Not great for the body.) It's not so much about "are they really trans" so much as it is needing to survive, needing to pay for surgery & hormones, and prioritizing being seen as a woman, whatever that takes. A lot of the trans women I have spoken with who were also doing sex work were not planning on doing it long term (just like many nontrans women sex workers), and most would leave that behind for a decent chance at a regular job and health care.

But if you are poor, trans, maybe a person of color, maybe a high school dropout because you kept getting beat up in school, maybe kicked out of your family...and you have one thing that can earn you money and a place to sleep, that's a deal that many trans women need to take. It's survival. The thing that will give our younger siblings (yes - FTMs are unwilling sex workers, too) a helping hand are things like safe schools, employment training programs, and affordable health care.

QuoteIf they must drop back to safe "postop-level" doses of hormones for health reasons, the testosterone produced by their testicles inevitably causes a steady coarsening of their features.

Being on HRT for a while will damage your testicles....so they won't produce (that much) testosterone ever again... even after being off HRT.

The use of anti androgens is reversible...the use of high doses of estrogens isn't, after a year or so. Especially considering the testicles.

QuoteTestosterone also escalates the aging process in TG transitioners, robbing them of their youthful beauty much earlier in life than is the case for postop TS women (this effect has long been known in the gay male "drag queen" community

Read above mentioned.

Have you ever noticed FTM on high doses of testo very, very often look like  'babyfaced' boys? No matter what their age is?
That's because of their overall smaller facial features and the smaller size of their heads plus no browridge etc.

MTF have bigger overall sizes including their head size and facial features and that's something that makes one look 'older', pre or post op, doesn't matter.
And sadly...any human/MTF head/face will increase with middle age...sooner or later, pre,  non or post op.
And then shrink with old age.

Plus 'filling out' a former male (big!) face  is also something that makes one look older.
Young people usually have lean faces,  middle aged people very often have 'puffy' faces and MTF of all ages too, including a big ol' honking head.

QuoteTG transitioners and ****** who were once very soft and pretty in their teens and twenties may have great difficulty finding male companions and lovers as they grow into their 40's and beyond.

That's quite a statement, isn't it?

Who says a post SRS  MTF who's into men (only!) is more successful  in finding a male partner than a TG or a ******* ? The person who wrote that quote actually says SRS is the solution for MTF loneliness. And giving false hope.

Listen to this young and fysical attractive and probably very passable post op:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFTof__bNR0# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFTof__bNR0#)!

She sounds very frustrated and angry..probably because she believed above mentioned assumption: post op and having a vagina will find me a straight guy.

Sadly it doesn't work that simple.

QuoteOld age can become a frighteningly lonely time for such people, and this factor should be carefully considered before undertaking a TG transition

Well, not only for 'such people' but for post srs MTF who are into men (only) too.

QuoteTG transitioners having strong libidos can continue to enjoy penile erections and orgasms after castration, and thus continue to enjoy the male aspects of their sexuality.

You'll only need a teensy tiny bit of testo...just a little bit to maintain erections and (dry) orgasms....not the full natural dose produced by testicles but the tiny bit by the adrenal glands.
Plus what's going on in your head.

Being on HRT for a while makes castration redundant....because one is already effectively chemically castrated.

Quotethe testosterone produced by their testicles inevitably causes a steady coarsening of their features.

I would say that's not (only) because of testosterone but because of augmenting certain parts of the face and having had (way) too much plastic surgery.
There aren't that many, sooner or later surgically untouched  TG, *******, and  MTF pre, post and non ops.

Cheekimplants and lipaugmentation can make one look really harsh and older,  ciswomen too.

A too thinned out, too short surgically altered nose makes one, and ciswomen too, look harsh because it doesn't match anymore with the 'surrounding face', especially in combination with cheekimplants.


An aging nose  often 'thins out' instead of the other possibility of 'growing' cartilage/nose tip.

A(n overagressive) jaw and chinreduction (and that looks weird in combination with cheekimplants) can one make older too, since both jaws and chin will shrink with age because of boneloss. In all people that is.
'Shrinking' a MTF jaw and chin can make one look prematurely older even after a (necessary) lower facelift.

I've seen post SRS/FFS MTF whom I mistook for being in their early/mid 40's....who turned out to be in their late 20's/early 30's.

It's not only testosterone that will cause damage and looking older with a coarse, harsh face, wrongly chosen plastic surgery procedures will too.

A (too much) surgically altered face makes it harsh looking, thus older too. MTF or cis...and ciswomen of all ages who had too much plastic surgery often look like....(aging) MTF.

Quote from: Dahlia on August 26, 2012, 02:21:18 AM
Who says a post SRS  MTF who's into men (only!) is more successful  in finding a male partner than a TG or a ******* ? The person who wrote that quote actually says SRS is the solution for MTF loneliness. And giving false hope.

She sounds very frustrated and angry..probably because she believed above mentioned assumption: post op and having a vagina will find me a straight guy.

Sadly it doesn't work that simple.
Well, not only for 'such people' but for post srs MTF who are into men (only) too.

And that's why I am working with a therapist now, since this would be anything but a fix to mi social problems. Those things would stay the same regardless of gender.

This clears a lot of things, thanks. Looks like most of the warning info I can find is either outdated or written from a strong negative point. Maybe is a good moment to stop with the info gathering and limit myself to the sessions with the GID therapist.

Quote from: Apples Mk.II on August 26, 2012, 04:21:10 AM

And that's why I am working with a therapist now, since this would be anything but a fix to mi social problems. Those things would stay the same regardless of gender.

This clears a lot of things, thanks. Looks like most of the warning info I can find is either outdated or written from a strong negative point. Maybe is a good moment to stop with the info gathering and limit myself to the sessions with the GID therapist.

It's cruel and condescending towards TG/non op/********

Quote from: Dahlia on August 26, 2012, 04:30:07 AM
It's cruel and condescending towards TG/non op/********

In fact, that's one of the things that made me consider getting SRS. A lot of the articles and opinions seem to spit venom over "partial" transitioners, to the point of making me feel bad about wanting to remain in TG mode (for now) until I have a more clear vision about myself.

Quote from: Apples Mk.II on August 25, 2012, 02:09:34 PM

From what I can gather, on a normal HRT regime erections lose strength and dissappear over time, there is a great shrinkage of testicles and a bit on the penis itself... They may became painful, libido goes away... The logical thing.

Incredibly feminine bodies and fully working male penises with absolutely no athropy. How the heck do they pull that?

Sometimes you get lucky, and your parts are still fully-functioning even after an extended period of HRT.

That's what the situation is for me.

Lets calm down. :police:

There is no reason to be judgemental.

Read the ToS in the announcement area.

I'm not of an opinion that this thread is leading to useful discussion.

If the OP agrees I think it is time to close it.

Quote from: Cindy James on August 26, 2012, 05:10:25 AM

If the OP agrees I think it is time to close it.

Go ahead, please.