Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I recently started taking 2 pills of estradiol, although my estrogen was generally within female levels it was a compromise to taking a larger dose of spirol.

My problem is I am freaking out a little bit, scared of estrogen turning into testosterone.

I have read many effects, and most are limited to biological woman.  Our bodies work a little differently of course!  I have not read anything of estrogen dominance(too much estrogen) in transsexual HRT.

There is tons of information on the effects of estrogen and a little on too much estrogen but nothing as specific to us.

Quote from: Rita on September 07, 2012, 06:02:04 PM
I recently started taking 2 pills of estradiol, although my estrogen was generally within female levels it was a compromise to taking a larger dose of spirol.

My problem is I am freaking out a little bit, scared of estrogen turning into testosterone.

I have read many effects, and most are limited to biological woman.  Our bodies work a little differently of course!  I have not read anything of estrogen dominance(too much estrogen) in transsexual HRT.

There is tons of information on the effects of estrogen and a little on too much estrogen but nothing as specific to us.

There is not such a thing as "estrogen dominance" in the medical literature. Estrogen dominance is an internet BS.

Estrogen effects are the same in XY males and XX females, other wise you would not be growing boobies, right? The effects of estrogen are rather individual specific.

There are plenty on the effects of estrogen in XY individuals. What exactly you need to know, and please do not ask me about the "estrogen dominance" BS.
Dr. Peky

I kinda figured, I mean I spent maybe hours over the past months researching random topics like this.  But as with all things male to female(and Female to Male) there just is not a whole ton of information.  And there exist a whole lot of craziness.

Changed the topic of my post to better represent my question. 

In short  does having too much estrogen cause a sharp increase in testosterone. 

It's the other way around :P

If a transguy takes too much testosterone, his body will start creating loads of estrogen.
Which is why ftms should never take more t than prescribed. It'd amount to nothing, except increasing his estrogen levels.

I have no idea if it does the same for a transgirl (too much estrogen, body counter attacks with more t.)

But no, hormones can't magically become something else.
Just like fat doesn't become muscles or the other way around.

Yea, but the human body does work in wierd unexpected ways! I have read about that happening to trans men.

T can be aromatized into E but not the other way around. The body likes to keep the ratios of E and T balanced so it may very well increase T to compensate for the higher E. That is one of the reasons bodybuilders take anti-e when loading up on so much T.

That is a relief! it makes me feel more comfortable until I see my doctor next time.

Quote from: Rita on September 08, 2012, 09:46:42 AM
That is a relief! it makes me feel more comfortable until I see my doctor next time.

As about the free estrogen and free testosterone levels. Why? Because they are the ones executing the change.

I'm pretty sure that it's only T that can be made into E, not vice versa. Still though, if you can increase your estrogen levels past a certain point, the only thing you'll get faster is side-effects.

The body can't convert it, per se... but the body CAN notice too much E in the body, and counteract it by telling the testes to produce more T... But I believe eventually the body gets tired of trying to  do that.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on September 09, 2012, 05:19:20 PM
The body can't convert it, per se... but the body CAN notice too much E in the body, and counteract it by telling the testes to produce more T... But I believe eventually the body gets tired of trying to  do that.

That's what I was thinking reading the other posts.

The body CANNOT change a hormone to another. That's like fat becoming muscles.

Quote from: Jayr on September 09, 2012, 05:44:08 PM
That's what I was thinking reading the other posts.

The body CANNOT change a hormone to another. That's like fat becoming muscles.

Actually, the body does have an enzyme that CAN convert T to E. Aromatase DOES in fact convert T to E (which is why body builders will often develop gynecomastia if they go on testosterone suppliments without an aromatase inhibitor). However I don't believe there is anything in the body that will directly convert E to T.

There is not a lot of difference between the Estrogen  and Testoterone molecules,  (additional H and CH₃) and Aromatase can convert T to E.  The reverse doesn't happen unfortunately. 

Quote from: justmeinoz on September 10, 2012, 09:26:23 AM
There is not a lot of difference between the Estrogen  and Testoterone molecules,  (additional H and CH₃) and Aromatase can convert T to E.  The reverse doesn't happen unfortunately.

I would say fortunately, after digging I found another thread on a separate forum discussing the same issue.  Results were conclusively the same.

T can Turn to E

E cannot turn to T

Now that we have a thread on this forum I hope it helps other people with a similar amount of fear over this. 

Quote from: Rita on September 10, 2012, 12:33:48 PM
I would say fortunately, after digging I found another thread on a separate forum discussing the same issue.  Results were conclusively the same.

T can Turn to E

E cannot turn to T

Now that we have a thread on this forum I hope it helps other people with a similar amount of fear over this.

But as others have said, if you ramp up your e intake it can prompt your body into producing more T to "fight it". I have felt this effect personally. Increased my E and got a random erection the next morning when I haven't had that happen in over a year. It's why I am now very careful about increasing dosage and do it slowly over a longer period of time.

QuoteAt the Dr appt my doc went ahead and upped my Rx to the larger dosage/day. That was 10 days ago. Over the last 10 days or so I've noticed the breast growth I had previously observed seeming to diminish, some spontaneous erections returning and a little less feeling of general well-being.

Quoted that from another forum, definitely what I have been experiencing.  I came to the forums worried because my smell changed almost overnight, my body feels a little more foreign, and  while I am not getting random erections... it tickles more like it did once before.  I never really had any problem sexually, besides the obvious erectile dysfunction but with the erectile dysfunction I could only get turned on when I wanted to and not at random.    *sorry in advance for the vulgarity but theres no other way to really say it*


In response to the below,

QuoteBut as others have said, if you ramp up your e intake it can prompt your body into producing more T to "fight it". I have felt this effect personally. Increased my E and got a random erection the next morning when I haven't had that happen in over a year. It's why I am now very careful about increasing dosage and do it slowly over a longer period of time.

I admit I was wrong xD

I sure learned something today.
o:

probably not, based on what I read here my E levels are probably still very high so E is most likely not turning into T.  Just my bodies protections doing what it does best xD

Just found my T and E levels today,  I started in January, got tested in september.

My E levels were 300, my T levels were 225.  He says my T levels should be in the 100 range but not to worry about it at the moment.  If I am feeling ill effects not to maintain at 2.

Quote from: Rita on September 11, 2012, 01:11:48 PM
Just found my T and E levels today,  I started in January, got tested in september.

My E levels were 300, my T levels were 225.  He says my T levels should be in the 100 range but not to worry about it at the moment.  If I am feeling ill effects not to maintain at 2.

Those are some odd levels O.O, how very "androgyne" of you :P.

Haha xD I dont know whether to strang.. jkjk!  Why are they so odd O-o?  Darn inexact science making my OCD go insane.

Quote from: Ave on September 11, 2012, 01:17:35 PM
Those are some odd levels O.O, how very "androgyne" of you :P.

Those about what mine are. They can't get my T levels lower and honestly the "test levels" are about the same as pre-HRT but I can promise the -effects- of the T have changed dramatically (i.e. sex drive, body hair, skin etc). And my body has changed a lot as well. It's why my doc finally decided testing T levels was just a waste of my money for me. Now we go by how I feel, they only check the liver and other critical for my health stuff in my blood tests. I think after a while we learn how if feels when T starts doing it's thing and when it's under control far better than a blood test will show. I understand that for "normal patients" there are specific target levels but for some people, they just don't work or even apply.

which would be funny considering my body structure is not exactly the peak of masculinity before HRT xD.

But I agree 100%, my doctor seems to agree also that feminization will continue occurring.  He offered for me to come in earlier to check my levels and dicuss it.  I would like to raise my E levels over time but if the 200 range is good for puberty, than my 300 range should be ok as well for now.

I mean at the level I was at my breasts were growing fine, my body hair was crying, and my emotions were perfect.  My face was getting rounder, my body curvier, and all round was feeling fine.

Quote from: Rita on September 11, 2012, 04:33:52 PM
I mean at the level I was at my breasts were growing fine, my body hair was crying, and my emotions were perfect.  My face was getting rounder, my body curvier, and all round was feeling fine.

What matters is results not the numbers on a lab sheet. As long as your liver and electrolytes etc are looking OK, screw it if the T and E numbers aren't what they expect. I have a feeling your doctor will agree.