Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Judge refuses to let men planning sex-change operations to switch to feminine names
Published: September 14, 2012

http://newsok.com/judge-refuses-to-let-men-planning-sex-change-operations-to-switch-to-feminine-names/multimedia/video/1841221764001 (http://newsok.com/judge-refuses-to-let-men-planning-sex-change-operations-to-switch-to-feminine-names/multimedia/video/1841221764001)

An Oklahoma County judge is refusing to let men planning sex-change operations switch to feminine names. James Dean Ingram of Oklahoma City went before Judge Bill Graves seeking a legal change to the name Angela Renee Ingram.

The judge is violating the laws of Oklahoma, which ensure the right of every citizen to change their name upon petition and publication. The only restriction under the law is the standard not for purposes of fraud or debt avoidance. Following the Standards of Care is neither fraud nor debt avoidance, so the judge does not have the authority to deny the petition.

"The judge believes a person cannot change his or her sex because the DNA stays the same."

If that directly represents the judges argument... Hmm. I believe (as a layman) that that statement conflicts with the long-term nature of DNA.

http://www.genetics.org/content/180/3/1627.full (http://www.genetics.org/content/180/3/1627.full)

Anyhoo, obviously this person could be paired with their DNA sequencing in the future. But I would argue that assuming this person is defined by their DNA is fallible. What about their experiences? Their environment, parents, culture, faith, education, etc.? Aren't those major definitions of what it is to be a person? So this person can't find that they, after living their unique life, have incongruity between their current mind and the disposition of their body?

Hrumph. Poppycock. Unfortunately, the unique experiences of this judge led him to make this decision.

Transgender Name Changes Not OK With Bible-Quoting Oklahoma Judge
It's not OK with Judge Bill Graves, who claims medical procedures cannot change the gender God meant a person to be.
BY Trudy Ring
September 16 2012 3:47 PM ET

http://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender/2012/09/16/oklahoma-judge-cites-bible-denying-transgender-name-changes (http://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender/2012/09/16/oklahoma-judge-cites-bible-denying-transgender-name-changes)

An Oklahoma judge has stirred controversy with decisions not allowing transgender people to change their names legally, claiming they are making the changes for "fraudulent" purposes, in violation of state law.

Oklahoma County district judge Bill Graves, a former state legislator, also has cited the Bible in disallowing the name changes, The Oklahoman reports. Other judges told the newspaper they routinely grant name changes for people who have undergone or are planning to have gender-reassignment procedures.

In an order last year denying a name change, Graves wrote, "A so-called sex-change surgery can make one appear to be the opposite sex, but in fact they are nothing more than an imitation of the opposite sex." A person's DNA stays the same, he wrote, citing a physician he consulted.

"To grant a name change in this case would be to assist that which is fraudulent," Graves continued.

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Oklahoma judge refuses to let men planning sex-change operations have feminine names
Oklahoma County District Judge Bill Graves has denied names changes in two cases where a man was planning a sex-change operation and wanted a feminine name to go along with his new identity. The judge ruled the requests were made for fraudulent purpose.

By Nolan Clay | Published: September 16, 2012   

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-judge-refuses-to-let-men-planning-sex-change-operations-have-feminine-names/article/3710063 (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-judge-refuses-to-let-men-planning-sex-change-operations-have-feminine-names/article/3710063)

An Oklahoma County judge is refusing to let men planning sex-change operations switch to feminine names.

District Judge Bill Graves has denied name changes in two such cases so far — last year and again in August. The judge ruled both times the requests were made for a fraudulent purpose.

"I wanted to give up and just die,'' said James Dean Ingram, who asked to legally be known as Angela Renee Ingram but was turned down Aug. 30.

"It's so important because it's who I am. I can't be who I am with a male name," Ingram said.

None to worry I have the N.C.L.U. at my back now so I am sure I will get this decision overturned soon.

Not just to fix my issues, but hopefully this helps the entire community in the long run no one should ever go through what I have.


-Angela Renee Ingram

Best wishes and thanks for stopping by! Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: zeltronica on September 19, 2012, 06:02:20 AM
None to worry I have the N.C.L.U. at my back now so I am sure I will get this decision overturned soon.

Not just to fix my issues, but hopefully this helps the entire community in the long run no one should ever go through what I have.

Hi Angela,

Welcome to Susan's! I wish you all the best in getting this egregious decision overturned!

Zythyra - News Admin

Quote from: Zythyra on September 17, 2012, 12:43:07 PM
Oklahoma County district judge Bill Graves, a former state legislator, also has cited the Bible in disallowing the name changes,

Taa-daa! Why oh why am I not surprised? I wonder what passage he quoted? "And THE LORD saith 'Anyone who changeth their gender is a fraudster or charlatan and must ridiculed and abused by the righteous" - Judges Ch.666 v1

Quote from: zeltronica on September 19, 2012, 06:02:20 AM
None to worry I have the N.C.L.U. at my back now so I am sure I will get this decision overturned soon.

I am just sorry you are having to deal with this, especially since for mine I walked in to the Courthouse with no appointment, paid £20, filled in the paperwork and swore it in front of the judge and it was done. It makes me feel very sad for you and I hope you win and that that dinosaur of a judge gets some sort of reprimand.

I appreciate all the kind words.

Well I thought it would be an easy process you know go in pay for the publication, then pay for the documents and to setup the court date, then see the judge he would ask a couple questions and it would be done... Apparently it wasn't so simple after all.

Hopefully all works out for the best.

Keep a positive outlook! Hugs, Devlyn

Thanks Devlyn.

Asking to change a name isn't asking to change DNA.

More to the point, this judge is ignorant of the Bible. Isaiah 56:4-5 refers to eunuchs, who may have been the most analogous category of person to transgender people.

"For thus says the Lord: To the eunuchs who keep my sabbaths, who choose the things that please me and hold fast my covenant,
I will give, in my house and within my walls, a monument and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off."

So God says that trans people can indeed be given new names. Good luck as you hold to the truth about yourself.

I can't for the life of me figure out how to add a link, but here is the verse: http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Isaiah+56:4-5&vnum=yes&version=nrsv (http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Isaiah+56:4-5&vnum=yes&version=nrsv)

nice quote mr testo :)

Quote from: MadelineB on September 15, 2012, 12:37:04 PM
The judge is violating the laws of Oklahoma, which ensure the right of every citizen to change their name upon petition and publication. The only restriction under the law is the standard not for purposes of fraud or debt avoidance. Following the Standards of Care is neither fraud nor debt avoidance, so the judge does not have the authority to deny the petition.

It is a fundamental premise in the law that an official who has the discretion to grant something, also has the discretion to deny it.

Appeal.

Angela Renee Ingram,

I am also behind you to the fullest extent! I was so upset to see that this judge allowed his personal opinions to override what the law says. I hope that while you are trying to overturn this, that you also file a complaint for gross judicial misconduct. Judges can and should be held to a higher standard of conduct in the discharge of their official duties.

This judge only had the job of seeing all the proper paperwork and that it was all filed correctly, then granting the name change. Sending you care and support!

Dawn

Angela, best of luck, you don't deserve this, I hope you prevail.

That being said, I need to voice my discomfort not just about this disgusting ruling, but the way it was written up in the article. It feels the need specifically to mention that the man (sic.) "was planning a sex-change operation" as if that somehow more entitled her to a name change than if she were merely transgendered.

Maybe that's the law in Oklahoma, but it's awful that it requires Trans women to disclose their surgical intentions (which should be completely private) in order to get a name that matches their identity.

This has happened in Georgia and it turned into a battle between the judge and Lambda legal. I paid a lawyer to do my name change out of fear of this happening. I figured a judge would be less likely to try to play this nonsense if a lawyer presented it.

I am SOOOOO sorry you became a target of this sad persons hatred. People can make excuses for the right wings position on GLBT issues all they want, THIS is the results of that "chick-fil-a" position, hatred and harassment.

And since when was the bible supposed to be referenced in making a legal decision??

I appreciate everyone's support here.

I appreciate everyone's support here.

Idiot who is obviously long past retirement.

So I realize this is a long dead thread but as I'm in Oklahoma... is there any way one might go about avoiding particular judges?

Also, as an update to the thread... the judge's decisions seems to have been overturned: http://newsok.com/article/3730373

QuoteThe Oklahoma Court of Civil Appeals says a man who has completed a sex change should be allowed to change his name as well, rejecting the idea that men should have men's names and women should have women's names.

The three-judge panel said Tuesday that Steven Charles Harvey was not attempting to deceive anyone by asking to be known as Christie Ann Harvey. Oklahoma County District Judge Bill Graves had ruled against Harvey, noting that gender-reassignment surgery didn't change Harvey's DNA.

The panel said Graves committed a "clear error" by rejecting the name change. In the unanimous ruling, it said the law does not require people to have gender-specific names and said there are several names that are traditionally used by both men and women.

I had my name changed in Cleveland County, OK. It was such a non affair that it was kinda disappointing really. The judge for my hearing was a female, and I had my name changed on July 28th. Not sure what part of the state you're from.

North Eastern OK. Wanna hear something hilarious about how backwards Oklahoma is? I was looking through my BlueCross BlueShield benefits...

WHAT IS NOT COVERED
Except as otherwise specifically stated in the Contract, we do not provide Benefits for services, supplies or
charges:
(...)
In no event will any care and  services for breast reconstruction or implantation or removal of breast
prostheses be a Covered Service unless such care and services are performed solely and directly as a result
of mastectomy which is Medically Necessary.
(...)
For transsexual Surgery or any treatment leading to or in connection with transsexual Surgery.
(...)

Jeez...