Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Yesterday there was a news item on tv about gosh I can't even remember but a guy from some gay foundation said 'it doesn't matter wether you are gay or straight or transgender'. Uhmmm well I'm transgender and I'm straight. I wasn't aware that being transgender is a sexual preference now? If people who work or volunteer for gay foundations don't even get that then how is the general public going to understand?

Am I the only one who is bothered that there is a T in LGBT?

why would you be bothered by it? The T without the LGB would be nowhere, in a sense , we ARE riding on their coattails.

The main reason for standing under the same umbrella is that we've got all the same people spitting at us.

Now if only all the people under the same umbrella weren't busy spitting at each other... ::)

We're grouped together as a consequence of shared oppression. But still, I also find it annoying when people think trans is a sexuality issue.

Well, here's my honest opinion. I think that when presenting ourselves as a community, it doesn't help us at all to look for petty little things to get offended by. Nope it doesn't offend me at all, nor is it necessarily implying that ->-bleeped-<- is a sexuality issue.

Agreed - its only annoying when it's actually doing that - which happens annoyingly often.

It doesn't help that there's ''Trans Girls'' who go on national tv and say ''I'm really a man, or you liked it so your gay'. That mentality within the community is why outsiders ALWAYS gets gender identity mixed with sexuality.

Quote from: TessaM on September 15, 2012, 03:40:45 PM
+1
Were all against the heteronormative, patriarchal society which oppresses us. Id be more bothered if we werent all bunched up to be honest.

Until you have been to a country that really is tyrannical and oppressive, I would think twice about my statement.
The key to understanding is education.  One does not learn much from rock-throwers.

Quote from: Jamie D on September 15, 2012, 03:52:25 PM
Until you have been to a country that really is tyrannical and oppressive, I would think twice about my statement.
The key to understanding is education.  One does not learn much from rock-throwers.

Yeah, what do you mean?

I get talk therapy from the GLBT division of a mental health agency (smyrc through cascadia if you're local), and I was still asked upon registration "So are you gay or are you transgender?" Lol. Um, yes?

I think that even for people who are not outsiders to gay and trans communities, it can be hard to keep a good grasp on the lingo and the politics. So people say some things that are often theoretically pretty disrespectful, but I think we should choose our battles. Our opponents often don't see any difference between gay and trans.

Quote from: TessaM on September 15, 2012, 04:16:09 PM
Could you further elaborate on this statement? Im not sure if I understand what your getting at here.

"Oppression" is a highly charged word that is used rhetorically and in hyperbole, without thinking about those who are truly oppressed.

We have members here who, if they were found out by their governments, or religious leaders, would be in danger of being executed.  That is oppression.  Is that the case in Canada?  Does the government, or the rulers hold arbitrary or despotic power over you?  That is tyranny.

You might rightly feel discriminated against, but I doubt your life is in danger through the cruel exercise of government power.  Nor do I think your government, or even "patriarchal society," exercises despotic power over you to suppress your liberties and freedoms.

Perhaps I am wrong.

Maybe it was not completely smart, and a little bit ignorant, though this guy meant well! He has good intentions.

I guess it doesn't matter when you are being attacked, all that matters is that it stops.

Quote from: Jamie D on September 16, 2012, 03:18:37 AM
"Oppression" is a highly charged word that is used rhetorically and in hyperbole, without thinking about those who are truly oppressed.

We have members here who, if they were found out by their governments, or religious leaders, would be in danger of being executed.  That is oppression.  Is that the case in Canada?  Does the government, or the rulers hold arbitrary or despotic power over you?  That is tyranny.

You might rightly feel discriminated against, but I doubt your life is in danger through the cruel exercise of government power.  Nor do I think your government, or even "patriarchal society," exercises despotic power over you to suppress your liberties and freedoms.

Perhaps I am wrong.

You would be. It's not a black and white thing. Not all oppression is lethal. Some oppression starts with being fired for being who you are, being kicked out of your home because of who you are etc etc. I would think about that before dismissing other's posts so willy nilly. Things are getting better but it's far from perfect, especially if you live in the south.

This thread is exactly why our community seldom makes any progress.

Our community is divided and plagued by infighting.  ::)

Quote from: Asfsd4214 on September 16, 2012, 08:51:26 AM
This thread is exactly why our community seldom makes any progress.

Our community is divided and plagued by infighting.  ::)

I wouldn't say a debate over the internet is the same as real life. The internet is defined by semantics and relative anonymity. In real life I see the GLBT getting along far more often than not. It's that fear of being called out as a bigot in a community, not many actually have the guts to come straight out and say "hey trans people don't belong in the GLBT" but on the internet, the haters as brave as the heroes of old when it comes to opinions like that. Most just conform to the mold out of fear of being displaced by the community they need.

Quote from: Snowpaw on September 16, 2012, 08:42:39 AM
You would be. It's not a black and white thing. Not all oppression is lethal. Some oppression starts with being fired for being who you are, being kicked out of your home because of who you are etc etc. I would think about that before dismissing other's posts so willy nilly. Things are getting better but it's far from perfect, especially if you live in the south.

I would argue that discrimination is not oppression, and that oppression is institutionalized and occurs as a result of the exercise of government power.  To claim being rejected for who you are is oppression, trivializes real oppression.

Quote from: Snowpaw on September 16, 2012, 08:59:12 AM
I wouldn't say a debate over the internet is the same as real life. The internet is defined by semantics and relative anonymity. In real life I see the GLBT getting along far more often than not. It's that fear of being called out as a bigot in a community, not many actually have the guts to come straight out and say "hey trans people don't belong in the GLBT" but on the internet, the haters as brave as the heroes of old when it comes to opinions like that. Most just conform to the mold out of fear of being displaced by the community they need.

I've seen the inside of real life activist groups, it seems exactly the same.

The arguing may be done more politely and respectfully, but it's still the same arguments over the same things with the same inaction resulting.

Tessa, thank you for your reply.

We all deal with discrimination, biases, insults, ans at times, even hatred.  But these are coming from individuals, not sanctioned by the government.

That's why I believe in constructive engagement.  Showing the haters they have nothing to hate.

Quote from: Jamie D on September 16, 2012, 03:18:37 AM
"Oppression" is a highly charged word that is used rhetorically and in hyperbole, without thinking about those who are truly oppressed.

We have members here who, if they were found out by their governments, or religious leaders, would be in danger of being executed.  That is oppression.  Is that the case in Canada?  Does the government, or the rulers hold arbitrary or despotic power over you?  That is tyranny.

You might rightly feel discriminated against, but I doubt your life is in danger through the cruel exercise of government power.  Nor do I think your government, or even "patriarchal society," exercises despotic power over you to suppress your liberties and freedoms.

Perhaps I am wrong.

More often than not the distinction between discrimination and oppression can be confusing, let me give you all a few clarifying examples that hit home:

I can lose  my job because I am TG (discrimination), which will force me to and lived in substandard living conditions (oppression).

My "Health Insurance" does not covers SRS (discrimination), which forces me to live in substandard living conditions (oppression).

Of course if you are in the top 1% or work for one of those top 500 companies, this discussion is but a Sunday afternoon political debate, but for the rest of us is just life. I guess how much oppression and discrimination you suffer in America is directly proportional to the amount of money you make or own.

Having said that it is clear that if Mr. Romney is elected then the discrimination and oppression we will suffer will increase. Vote for Mr. Obama if you care about your TG rights!

Quote from: vivienne on September 15, 2012, 10:30:22 AM
Yesterday there was a news item on tv about gosh I can't even remember but a guy from some gay foundation said 'it doesn't matter wether you are gay or straight or transgender'. Uhmmm well I'm transgender and I'm straight. I wasn't aware that being transgender is a sexual preference now? If people who work or volunteer for gay foundations don't even get that then how is the general public going to understand?

Am I the only one who is bothered that there is a T in LGBT?

I don't mind the LGBTQ confederation...but it does bother me that someone from a "gay foundation" lumped together "gay or straight" (which are sexual orientations) with "transgender" (which is not a sexual orientation).

Unless there is some context missing where it would make sense...

I wouldn't say a debate over the internet is the same as real life. The internet is defined by semantics and relative anonymity. In real life I see the GLBT getting along far more often than not.

True that, because first of all once you step out the door you lose half the people who only exist on the internet, moreover when you get into the 'community' or start working with organizations you eliminate a lot more - and what you are left with are people who tend to be highly functioning, extremely social persons who are working towards an end and tend not to get bogged down in minutia and semantics.  Moreover, because they are functioning and social they recognize that anyone and everyone who can and will help you get to that end are allies, not merely targets for a meaningless debate.

Quote from: vivienne on September 15, 2012, 10:30:22 AM
Yesterday there was a news item on tv about gosh I can't even remember but a guy from some gay foundation said 'it doesn't matter wether you are gay or straight or transgender'. Uhmmm well I'm transgender and I'm straight. I wasn't aware that being transgender is a sexual preference now? If people who work or volunteer for gay foundations don't even get that then how is the general public going to understand?

Am I the only one who is bothered that there is a T in LGBT?

Ok, I don't think they were lumping trans into the sexual orientation category. They were just saying that gays, straights, and transgender individuals should be treated equally. Ladies and gentlemen, try not to be too sensitive. If I say, "It doesn't matter whether you like baseball, basketball, or pie" does that mean I'm calling pie a sport? No. Don't take things out of context. I'm sure the speaker simply meant that we should all be treated equally.

As for the "oppression" thing. I looked in my handy-dandy dictionary, and "oppression" can be defined as "Arbitrary, cruel use of authority or power by the state." It can also be defined as "the condition of having something weighing down one's mind." It can also be defined as "Prolonged, unjust treatment." So you're all right. Isn't that nice? Now can we all just get along peacefully without silly debates weighing us down (or "oppressing us"  :P)? :)

Quote from: Jamie D on September 16, 2012, 09:12:32 AM
I would argue that discrimination is not oppression, and that oppression is institutionalized and occurs as a result of the exercise of government power.  To claim being rejected for who you are is oppression, trivializes real oppression.

Thank you for this nugget. Priceless.

Quote from: UCBerkeleyPostop on September 16, 2012, 03:24:19 PM
Thank you for this nugget. Priceless.

McDonalds chicken nuggets are priceless.

bah bah bah bah I'm lovin' it. :D

Quote from: Ave on September 16, 2012, 03:31:04 PM
McDonalds chicken nuggets are priceless.

bah bah bah bah I'm lovin' it. :D

Blah blah blah is right. It is called bloviation.

Hey Berkeley, don't you know that on the internet some people get to define words as part of a 'dictionary of one' and do not have to conform to the accepted definition in things like The Oxford Dictionary of the English Language that the rest of us have to use?

Quote from: tekla on September 16, 2012, 03:39:28 PM
Hey Berkeley, don't you know that on the internet some people get to define words as part of a 'dictionary of one' and do not have to conform to the accepted definition in things like The Oxford Dictionary of the English Language that the rest of us have to use?

That's my dictionary. It's cool.  8)

I was just joking, I don't eat McDonalds (although I should, just to gain weight :P).

It just got awkward here >> <<.

Let's get back to the original question, please.

Yesterday there was a news item on tv about gosh I can't even remember but a guy from some gay foundation said 'it doesn't matter wether you are gay or straight or transgender'. Uhmmm well I'm transgender and I'm straight. I wasn't aware that being transgender is a sexual preference now? If people who work or volunteer for gay foundations don't even get that then how is the general public going to understand?Am I the only one who is bothered that there is a T in LGBT? 

Am I the only one who is bothered that there is a T in LGBT?
While it seems that there are people on the net who find it to be some sort of grievous offense, the people in the real world have a slightly more sophisticated understanding of what we share, what we have in common, and the end goals.  So what often seems to pop up on the net never seems to suffice in real on the ground organizations that are all about expanding  their base, not narrowing it.

No original topic? This thread is locked, please find another to post in. Devlyn