Susan's Place Transgender Resources

So after talking with my gp and having a very very awkward conversation, i have been put on the mental health list for a therapist up at caronhill, up here in Aberdeen Scotland. My nhs doctor had absolutely no idea what to do. It was one longest most awkward pauses Ive ever experienced, and then some small talk to chance the subject. Now this is at minimum a 6 month waiting list, and its not even a gender specialist, So this therapist that i will be seeing in 6 month will end up being a middle man to get me to a gender specialist.

Being me and not actually having one iota of patience i jumped on the net, where i found a local group of transgender people. They told me to contact Sandyford in Glasgow. Some of them had only 3 months to wait, some of them got appointment's in no time at all. So i self referred myself. I thought i was making progress, until the lady on the phone told me the waiting list is a year long. Screw my life.

Im already 23, I cant have testosterone wrecking my body for another year. Especially since this outward appearance constantly battles the inner reflection. Both sides of me fight. Most of the time the male side wins, but only out of fear. I dont know if i can stay at war with myself for another year. I need to find balance and the only way i can think of is through hrt. Cause outwardly i just look like a dude in makeup. I'm that of person that gets harassed in the street when i try to be more me. Ive only been out a handful of times in girls clothes and have been harassed every time.

Now i have two last leads. Dr Calendar's clinic in Aberdeen, though ive heard terrible things about him treating people like subject instead of people. I also have the clinic in Edinburgh to try. ill go anywhere in the UK as long as i can get treatment. Im gonna remain optimistic on the waiting lists being considerably shorter. Cause the alternative may have me spiraling out of control, again.

Now being me and not having an iota of patience, i am on here for advice, and maybe some clarity. Why did i seem to pull the waiting list short straw? From lurking I know there are a lot of T girls here in Scotland, I know a lot of you have hormones, and that you didn't have to wait a year just to be seen. Though i also know there are lots that have waited years. Why is the uk so damn inconstant? and what can i do about it?

Please and thankyou. Help a sister out.

OK. This is one of those instances where you need to play the system.

Firstly, you need to deal with your GP. Don't let this one pass. You need a GP whatever happens. Though be fair, transgender isn't very common, thankfully. And you know as well as I do, that many, especially those born with male parts, will tend to be quite relcutant to accept it in themselves.

So, download and print out some of these:

http://transhealth.vch.ca/resources/library/tcpdocs/guidelines-endocrine.pdf (http://transhealth.vch.ca/resources/library/tcpdocs/guidelines-endocrine.pdf)

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~shors/pdf/Bangasser%20and%20Shors%20BNST%20JofN%202008.pdf (http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~shors/pdf/Bangasser%20and%20Shors%20BNST%20JofN%202008.pdf)

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html)

Remember to include the web addresses at the end if your printer doesn't put them in automatically.

You should also offer a web address mermaidsuk.org.uk (http://www.mermaidsuk.org.uk) That site is more aimed at children and parents, but will demonstrated that the problem is more universal than a passing fancy of frustrated youth. 

If he shows particular interest, offer him Susans.org. That can simply be spoken or written later.

Edinburgh is a good place to go, but accommodation can be pricey. Not sure what the tains are like now as I haven't been near the place in 20 years. But they use to be pretty good, especially compared to other parts of Great Britain. Anyway, check that out first. Make sure you have somewhere to stay.

Finally, and this is the most important. Be persistant, be firm. Be mature and considerate. He'll be battling with conventions as much as you.

Never give up.

Never loose faith in your self and

Never Give Up


addition.

I've found these, quite easily. But was reluctant to offer them as I have no experience. But have a look. The worst that can happen is you walk away.

http://ftmuk.freeforums.org/scotland-f28.html (http://ftmuk.freeforums.org/scotland-f28.html)

http://www.ftmi.org/scotland.htm (http://www.ftmi.org/scotland.htm)

http://transmenscotland.wordpress.com/tag/transmen-scotland-ftm/ (http://transmenscotland.wordpress.com/tag/transmen-scotland-ftm/)

I'm equally frustrated with the wait on the NHS. I understand only too well your urgency to be seen NOW. I blogged about this just a couple of days ago (http://ftmdiaries.blogspot.com/2012/10/turning-oil-tanker.html (http://ftmdiaries.blogspot.com/2012/10/turning-oil-tanker.html)). But please bear in mind that the NHS makes everyone wait for everything; it's the price we pay for not having to go into massive debt just to stay alive.

But as Graham Norton said in his Telegraph column a couple of weeks ago, "Turning a life around is like trying to turn an oil tanker, it will take time and involve thousands of small manoeuvres. Set yourself small, achievable goals.". As urgent as your need is, please try to remember that your life is that oil tanker. And each step towards your goal will add up. So let's see what steps you've already taken:

Step 1: you've come out to yourself.
Step 2: you've sought help from your GP.
Step 3: Your GP is doing something about it and has referred you to your CMHT.
Step 4: You are trying, wherever possible, to present yourself as your correct gender.

So you're already four solid steps into your personal journey. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other. The NHS pathway is typically 5 stages (contact GP; referral by GP to local psych; referral by psych to GIC; referral by GIC to surgical unit; GP provides ongoing care e.g. hormones). You are already on stage 2 of 5 on the NHS Pathway. Keep hold of that thought.

Here's some very useful info from the Department of Health about waiting times, funding and appeals - as well as some info about what to do if you want to mix NHS & private care: http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/@dh/@en/documents/digitalasset/dh_082955.pdf (http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/@dh/@en/documents/digitalasset/dh_082955.pdf)
That leaflet also says that Gender Dysphoria is a condition that is treated differently from other 'mental health' conditions and that you are entitled to be seen within 18 weeks. But of course with all the 'cuts' you may find that has changed; check with your local PCT. You'll notice that each PCT decides what it will fund, so the DoH recommends you contact your local PCT as soon as possible to see what they will fund as this might help you get an earlier appointment if someone cancels. You can find your local PCT's contact details here: http://www.nhs.uk/ServiceDirectories/Pages/PrimaryCareTrustListing.aspx (http://www.nhs.uk/ServiceDirectories/Pages/PrimaryCareTrustListing.aspx)

You need a psych's referral to get into the GICs on the NHS, but it can be a private psych. So... why not contact all the GICs to see what their waiting times are, and then find a private psych who knows about GD and see if they can refer you? I saw my NHS psych within 2 months of seeing my GP, but my GP's surgery has several trans patients so maybe they've just got their act together.

Quote from: spacial on October 11, 2012, 03:12:02 AM
OK. This is one of those instances where you need to play the system.

Firstly, you need to deal with your GP. Don't let this one pass. You need a GP whatever happens. Though be fair, transgender isn't very common, thankfully. And you know as well as I do, that many, especially those born with male parts, will tend to be quite relcutant to accept it in themselves.

So, download and print out some of these:

http://transhealth.vch.ca/resources/library/tcpdocs/guidelines-endocrine.pdf (http://transhealth.vch.ca/resources/library/tcpdocs/guidelines-endocrine.pdf)

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~shors/pdf/Bangasser%20and%20Shors%20BNST%20JofN%202008.pdf (http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~shors/pdf/Bangasser%20and%20Shors%20BNST%20JofN%202008.pdf)

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html)

Remember to include the web addresses at the end if your printer doesn't put them in automatically.

You should also offer a web address mermaidsuk.org.uk (http://www.mermaidsuk.org.uk) That site is more aimed at children and parents, but will demonstrated that the problem is more universal than a passing fancy of frustrated youth. 

If he shows particular interest, offer him Susans.org. That can simply be spoken or written later.

Edinburgh is a good place to go, but accommodation can be pricey. Not sure what the tains are like now as I haven't been near the place in 20 years. But they use to be pretty good, especially compared to other parts of Great Britain. Anyway, check that out first. Make sure you have somewhere to stay.

Finally, and this is the most important. Be persistant, be firm. Be mature and considerate. He'll be battling with conventions as much as you.

Never give up.

Never loose faith in your self and

Never Give Up


addition.

I've found these, quite easily. But was reluctant to offer them as I have no experience. But have a look. The worst that can happen is you walk away.

http://ftmuk.freeforums.org/scotland-f28.html (http://ftmuk.freeforums.org/scotland-f28.html)

http://www.ftmi.org/scotland.htm (http://www.ftmi.org/scotland.htm)

http://transmenscotland.wordpress.com/tag/transmen-scotland-ftm/ (http://transmenscotland.wordpress.com/tag/transmen-scotland-ftm/)

Thanks for all of the information. I finally got an appointment through my gp, but its just for a regular therapist, so i will have to talk to the middleman. Its next month. So ill have those documents printed for whoever my therapist turns out to be.
I'm still going to try all of the gender health clinics in Scotland until i find something.

In not sure whether to feel complimented about some of those links you posted about f2m. Its the other way around. Male to female;)

Heh, don't worry, I got misgendered as a trans man a few times early in my transition, and I took it as a compliment too ;D.

Anima88

I am aware that you are a transman. (Looking pretty good if I may say).

I was trying to get information on transgender for you to present, which will be taken seriously by professionals.

I know the way these people work, having dealt with them over many years in so many capacities.

Firstly they need to know that credible research has been done, so they can cite the odd passage. They won't read everything of course, but just enough to give the impression they know what they're talking about.

That's why I included the link for MermaidsUK for example. It isn't relevant to you as such, but demonstrates that the information is there.

Also, by presenting general information, instead of simply what is relevant to you, suggests you're not being one sided. (Though of course, the game permits it!!)

Your birth gender will come next.

I appreciate this might offend your sense of self, that's understandable. But the reality is, you are a patient to these people. Not a human, not a man. Just another case to deal with, to earn their living and avoid the dreaded inquiries.

That's very cynical, of course, but I'm sorry to say, that is the game we paly these days. You play the game and you win the prize. The papers you give them will gain worth as they handle them. That way, they can later, pull them out as sources they use frequently and know well.

It's also why you need to print this stuff out. There's nothing quite so impressive to academic types, than a paper, written by another academic and published in some impressive sounding journal.

Once again, sorry I didn't make it very clear. It is quite important that you present just enough of what is going to give the right impression.

I also urge you to send these papers to your GP. A therapist is a totally different beast. We can cross that bridge when we come to it.

Quote from: spacial on October 15, 2012, 08:39:41 AM
Anima88

I am aware that you are a transman. (Looking pretty good if I may say).

I was trying to get information on transgender for you to present, which will be taken seriously by professionals.

I know the way these people work, having dealt with them over many years in so many capacities.

Firstly they need to know that credible research has been done, so they can cite the odd passage. They won't read everything of course, but just enough to give the impression they know what they're talking about.

That's why I included the link for MermaidsUK for example. It isn't relevant to you as such, but demonstrates that the information is there.

Also, by presenting general information, instead of simply what is relevant to you, suggests you're not being one sided. (Though of course, the game permits it!!)

Your birth gender will come next.

I appreciate this might offend your sense of self, that's understandable. But the reality is, you are a patient to these people. Not a human, not a man. Just another case to deal with, to earn their living and avoid the dreaded inquiries.

That's very cynical, of course, but I'm sorry to say, that is the game we paly these days. You play the game and you win the prize. The papers you give them will gain worth as they handle them. That way, they can later, pull them out as sources they use frequently and know well.

It's also why you need to print this stuff out. There's nothing quite so impressive to academic types, than a paper, written by another academic and published in some impressive sounding journal.

Once again, sorry I didn't make it very clear. It is quite important that you present just enough of what is going to give the right impression.

I also urge you to send these papers to your GP. A therapist is a totally different beast. We can cross that bridge when we come to it.

Maybe im getting terminologies wrong here. Tranwoman. Woman. Im totally a girl. Its what i want to be, its my internal gender. Thanks for the compliment:) though im not quite feminine looking enough to be anywhere near happy with my appearance.
Im already pretty much done with the gp though. He got me a therapist, who i am seeing next month on the 12th. So Ill have to cross that bridge pretty soon. You think i should still print out the papers? Its not a gender therapist though.

OK, and I see now, you have added an indicator so hopefully the mistake won't be made again.

I don't see any point in persisting. But you do need your GP to back you up. Whatever. But I've made the point. It's up to you. Good luck.

I know Scotland either has or is changing their rules for transgendered people to make the transition easier, I've been led to believe that electrolosys can be done on the Scottish NHS so that's worth investigating as a plus point for your neck of the woods.

unfortunately if you can't afford to go private (who can nowdays in the UK?) then you'll have to be patient, it's been almost 2 years since I saw my GP i'm still not on HRT!
Waiting for funding approval from my PCT took around 6 months if memory serves me correctly.

Be patient, Be polite, be firm & be positive.

p.s. be honest, don't plan answers for the psychiatrist appointment as they'll probably see through canned answers

american system is just that bad with medicaid,  Lucky for me I went to a good clinic for HRT with not much wait time at all.

As far as my dentist is, it took them 6 months to get me a filling.

glad i live in the US... cant believe they call our system broken.

Quote from: LilyoftheValley on October 26, 2012, 03:42:28 AM
glad i live in the US... cant believe they call our system broken.

Pleased to hear someone talking favourably about the US public health care system.

Pretty sure it depends on how you play the different systems. We tend to forget that these people are essentially very vain and we are effectively asking them to serve us.

I recall, in the 70s, I was in working in France and cut off the top of my thumb. Had no idea what to do frankly. And as anyone who has ever been in France will know, when you need something, they suddenly can't understand you.

But a good friend who knew the system there, sorted it all.

Quote from: LilyoftheValley on October 26, 2012, 03:42:28 AM
glad i live in the US... cant believe they call our system broken.

Glad you enjoy it. Do not forget to smile whilst you write the cheques......

Paying for something you actually can get somehow seems better than endless waiting for something for free.  It's more expensive, but it's also actually there.

In spite of what you read, the NHS actually works quite well. The emergency side is very good. If you have a life threatening condition they work amazingly fast and well. It is the administrative side of the NHS that sucks.

Even so, there are procedures and if you use them you can get results. My first referral to a screening psychiatrist took 4 weeks. My referral from there to a Gender Clinic (GIC) got lost in the admin so I prodded them a bit. The GIC responded that I could expect to wait 3 to 5 YEARS for a first appointment. I wrote a stiff letter and two weeks later I was assigned to another GIC with a 5 month wait.

I do not pay for hormones
I do not pay for surgery
I do not pay for voice therapy
I do not pay for counselling

Total cost to me so far - less than 6 postal stamps. Let us call it £3.00

I do not have any special advantages, I just do not take 'no' for an answer and press the bureaucrats for a result. I know of others transitioning in different areas who have similar stories.

OK, so I had to wait a few months but they operate a two year RLE before surgery so what are a few months more? I did have the option to go privately which would have cost me about £640 ( = $1000? ) in the first year and I could afford that but I am a believer in not rushing my transition. There is more than me in this transition and my family and friends find it easier if I take them along gently. So far I have not lost anyone, family or friends.

The NHS is not perfect and I would make a lot of changes if I was "CEO for a day", but so far it is £3.00 well spent.

With respect, I've found there's very little to be gained by comparing different systems.

I'm sure the US is fine for people there. We certainly prefer ours, almost without exceptions. Inspite of French nurses wandering around in Shole sandals, cigarettes hanging from their mouths, and more empty wine bottles that I thought existed, they seem to like what they have. And don't get me started on Germans or Africans! :D

Away from the useless bickering over which system is better, and onto the topic.

What do you mean by middleman? When I told my GP that I was transgendered and wanted a referral to the GIC (Leeds), I still needed a mental health assessment that asked one or two questions about when I started feeling like this etc, and half an hour of general mental health. It only took me a few weeks for a spot to open up. I then got put on the waiting list for a referral, which has taken seven months for an appointment (had my first one yesterday), which was another mental health assessment (the same one, in fact, just again).

It's strange you have to wait six months. I'd ask your GP if they're sure they're booking you in for the right thing. It's as slow as anything to actually get the results delivered to where they need to be, but it shouldn't be half a year for the initial assessment.

If you can afford it, consider going private for the time being. You can still go through the NHS process while receiving private treatment, and then switch to having it on the NHS - I've a friend doing that.
I've no idea about the waiting times though. Like I said, I just had my first appointment, when a friend who started the process at the same time as me hasn't heard anything. We come from the same small town, moved to the same area, and are trying to get in the same GIC, yet he's heard nothing and I've jumped to being several months ahead. It just doesn't make sense sometimes :(

Quote from: tekla on October 26, 2012, 08:06:25 AM
Paying for something you actually can get somehow seems better than endless waiting for something for free.  It's more expensive, but it's also actually there.

This.

The NHS: putting the 'patient' into being a 'patient'. ;)

Quote from: FTMDiaries on October 29, 2012, 07:52:40 AM
This.

The NHS: putting the 'patient' into being a 'patient'. ;)

Go private in that case.

I can afford to go private but I am not in a hurry. I started my own RLE and I have socially transitioned.

We can argue this till the cows come home. But while we share the discussion with Americans, it's pointless.

Yeah, because it's exactly horror stories like this that pretty much killed any real efforts at a national health care policy.

the uk system can only support a certain number of patients at any one time so they do seem to stall patients and sometimes some seem to get quicker treatment than others. ive found you have to be firm with them but not demanding.

Quote from: SUMMERWINE on October 29, 2012, 10:00:29 AM
the uk system can only support a certain number of patients at any one time so they do seem to stall patients and sometimes some seem to get quicker treatment than others. ive found you have to be firm with them but not demanding.

Many people would be amazed at how many have started various treatments, only to stop half way through. Self discharge is an enormous problem in the NHS, costing millions.

Young people are especially known for being fickle. Often, while people might start asking from transgender treatment, many will change their minds. Many are simply hoping that by making such a dramatic change in their life, they can run away with whatever is causing them pain.

It is also clear that, when some issue becomes fashionable, it suddenly become the priority of many.

This is why it is so essential, if someone really needs this support, they do their research. And to be patient.

where i live the local health authority has no funding for gender treatment so i have to be referred to another area so they do not do anything without good reason. for me my gum clinic (thats a sexual health clinic for those that dont know) picked up on the fact i wasnt happy and eventually i came out to the doc there who has been great. the system we have may not be perfect and yes it can be painfully slow at times but at least we can get help and advice.

Just had a quick read of your intro posts Summerwine. Sorry I didn't do so earlier.

How is your treatment progressing?

You talked of some presumptions about a treatment you were asking for? Has this been sorted out?

Be interested in an update, even if it's just to repeat what's already been happening.

Quote from: spacial on October 29, 2012, 10:34:27 AM
This is why it is so essential, if someone really needs this support, they do their research. And to be patient.

I have always said that fast transitions are rarely any good either for the transitioner or those around him/her. The more I read about it then the more I believe a slower transition is better for all concerned. In the context of a life time what does 2 or 3 years matter? I could understand people kicking off if it took 10 years to transition but do not I know anyone who has taken 5 years. Most of the ones I know personally in seem to be about 3 to 3.5 years from GP visit to surgery via the NHS and that is a sample of about a dozen or so.

I hope you're right about it taking 3 1/2 yrs from seeing the GP to having surgery, i'm rapidly approaching 2 yrs now & still not on HRT.
I'm not blaming the NHS completely as my last employer refused to let me have time off for my last appointment 6 months ago, my new appointment is next week.
Not counting this setback the NHS is still a lumbering dinosaur when it comes to transitioning, I understand that there are more life threatening things that need priority but when you're stuck in limbo for almost 2 yrs it can get frustrating

Quote from: bev2 on October 29, 2012, 08:59:10 AM
Go private in that case.

I can afford to go private but I am not in a hurry. I started my own RLE and I have socially transitioned.

You're fortunate if you can afford to go private, and equally fortunate to not need to do so.

Many of us - myself included - can't afford that luxury. And some of us desperately need treatment in order to pass, making my own RLE & social transition something of a farce until I can start T. I've already waited 21 years; waiting longer & being kept in the dark is just prolonging my agony. :(

Unfortunately going private is an option that many do not have, we have record unemployment in the UK, almost every job i've applied for recently is minimum wage.
7 years ago when I first started driving forklifts I could earn £8 - £10 ph, nowdays i'm lucky to earn just over £6 per hour, this is barely enough to pay bills & eat.

I've known people who've gotten divorced & had to move back with their ex just to make ends meet with the upbringing of their children, more & more people are moving back with parents due to low wages or no employment & many of these people are in their 30's.

We are in a worldwide recession & money has never been tighter for many.

I think a bit of waiting on the NHS is a reasonable exchange for treatment that would cost me over £20k, all in (what with therapy, hair removal, hormones, surgery...). I'm grateful to be getting it. It's not like I could afford the alternative.

eeekk going off topic but im on track sort of in a zig zag sort of way. have seen local mental health doc and we have discussion going as he says im cyclothimic (mood swings... steven fry suffers the same thing) and yes im gender identity dysfunctional.ive put forward the mood swings are down to gender problems and maybe treating that may solve the first problem. have u ever tried arguing with a psychiatrist lol, they are fitting me for a wrap round jacket next week.i have referal to gid consultant and im waiting for the letter from them.
i agree transition should be slow. for me i have asked for antiandrogen first to see what effect it has on feelings and desires. i have a belief that testosterone battles with my feelings. so many jump straight in and want everything at once without discovering if a lesser option may actually make there lives better. no two people are the same so you have to find out what is right for you. i think if you appear uncertain to the docs then you will get delayed and who can blame them. the meds are only a part of the process by far the biggest part is you yourslf.

Quote from: SUMMERWINE on October 29, 2012, 12:15:42 PM
the meds are only a part of the process by far the biggest part is you yourslf.

I completely agree with that

Quote from: FTMDiaries on October 29, 2012, 11:45:03 AMMany of us - myself included - can't afford that luxury. And some of us desperately need treatment in order to pass, making my own RLE & social transition something of a farce until I can start T. I've already waited 21 years; waiting longer & being kept in the dark is just prolonging my agony. :(

Have you looked at using Curtis? For hormones and consultation it is £600 for the first year or about £1.60 a day. The initial cost is £240. If you are doing T then you do not have to worry about hair removal and if you stay on the GIC list you can always contract back into the NHS system once the T is working.

Quote from: bev2 on October 29, 2012, 01:00:36 PM
Have you looked at using Curtis? For hormones and consultation it is £600 for the first year or about £1.60 a day. The initial cost is £240. If you are doing T then you do not have to worry about hair removal and if you stay on the GIC list you can always contract back into the NHS system once the T is working.

Thanks for the suggestion, and if I come into any money I'd certainly look into it. Unfortunately my family's cost-of-living expenses are so high that even finding an initial £240 is about as realistic as funding a trip to the moon at the moment. ;)

Well, I hope you find some way. I should have posted a link to Curtis's website so here is one now

http://transhealth.co.uk/pages/gender_clinic.html (http://transhealth.co.uk/pages/gender_clinic.html)

Thanks bev2 - now I know what to ask for for Xmas! ;)