Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Thiiiis may be a weird topic and I don't know if this is the right section.

Anyway.. Okay so I'm Pre-op been on hormones half my life, 10 years out of 20 and I want to know how do pre-op girls have sex.
I know how they HAVE it, but what does "sex" entail? I have been with my boyfriend for 2 years and he is straight. I have yet to have SRS due to lack of funding and the fact that I am in college paying all these tuition bills left and right. Our sex life is okay, we rarely have sex because its bothersome and anal is messy. So it's usually oral for him and that's about it.

I see a lot of opinions that a "true" trans girl would NEVER want her downstairs touched or acknowledged blah blah blah. Okay I know I'm a woman hellur.. But is it wrong that I feel sexually frustrated that I get nothing out of sex? I mean.. I feel like I'm doing all the work.. He gets pleasure when he wants and rolls over when he is done. Meanwhile I'm still unsatisfied and feeling ugly because he insists I don't touch myself and keep my panties on.. Because he calls it "gross".. 

Any input? I know it's gross and I don't like it either but I can't do anything about it.. So does that mean I understand and accept my life right now?
I'm confused.. and feeling inadequate.

He needs to understand that you have needs too, I know it must be difficult for him but it's also difficult for you.
Have you tried suggesting that from time to time when you are pleasing him that you have the lights off, he can let his mind wander & picture any celebrity he wants & you can give yourself some relief under cover of the darkness.

Relationships are all about give & take after all

U were placed on hrt when you were 10?

Quote from: Annah on October 23, 2012, 07:47:13 AM
U were placed on hrt when you were 10?

I started anti androgens (spiro) around then and estrogen right before 13?
My doctor was very accepting and supportive.. She did go very slow as she did a lot of research and consulted her colleagues across the states. I was on estrogen early if not before middle school?

Sorry...just confused. An earlier post stated u went on hormones right before high school. Now its elementary school. But ill leave it at that. I hope everything works out!

Quote from: Jayne on October 23, 2012, 07:44:10 AM
He needs to understand that you have needs too, I know it must be difficult for him but it's also difficult for you.
Have you tried suggesting that from time to time when you are pleasing him that you have the lights off, he can let his mind wander & picture any celebrity he wants & you can give yourself some relief under cover of the darkness.

Relationships are all about give & take after all

Yeah its such a mess, but only when I let my feelings.. well feel HAHA.
I don't know, maybe it's worth a shot. Iv'e tried doing it while he wasn't looking and he got a bit upset. Ill definitely ask him about it. He used to touch me down there for a short period, then he became completely opposed to it.. It's getting to the point where I'm getting a complex about him touching me because I'm uncomfortable that he doesn't like my body and I'm afraid to get aroused. I'm seeking acceptance now? I thought it would have been a given..  But I'm not sure. He loves me very much he claims, but though his actions I'm afraid he might be better off with a natal-girl. I'm not saying this is the only thing and it can't work just because of this 1 thing.. IDK

@.@ this is such a weird subject because IDK what I should feel and what I'm feeling or whats wrong to feel..

Quote from: Annah on October 23, 2012, 07:58:30 AM
Sorry...just confused. An earlier post stated u went on hormones right before high school. Now its elementary school. But ill leave it at that. I hope everything works out!

Oh sorry I was referring to estrogen, I started estrogen in my early teens. There was a long period of time where I was just on Spiro. I suppose Spiro could be considered HRT, but I never really explained the entire process. I suppose if you count Spiro or not as HRT effects my answer on my previous post?

Sorry for the confusion.. I wasn't trying to be deceitful

Quote from: yasuko14 on October 23, 2012, 07:31:36 AM
Our sex life is okay, we rarely have sex because its bothersome and anal is messy. So it's usually oral for him and that's about it.

I see a lot of opinions that a "true" trans girl would NEVER want her downstairs touched or acknowledged blah blah blah. Okay I know I'm a woman hellur.. But is it wrong that I feel sexually frustrated that I get nothing out of sex? I mean.. I feel like I'm doing all the work.. He gets pleasure when he wants and rolls over when he is done. Meanwhile I'm still unsatisfied and feeling ugly because he insists I don't touch myself and keep my panties on.. Because he calls it "gross".. 

Any input? I know it's gross and I don't like it either but I can't do anything about it.. So does that mean I understand and accept my life right now?
I'm confused.. and feeling inadequate.

If your sex life is just about him, it's not much of a sex life I'd say. I know there are alot of transwomen who'd never want to do anything with their genitals pre-op but that doesn't mean that the ones that do are any "less trans." It is all a matter of how you are willing to express yourself and what you feel comfortable with. You aren't any less of a transwoman if you have sex pre-op, that's just a very prejudiced opinion that unfortunately alot of transwomen seem to have. You know best who you are, not someone else.

And honey, if he calls your genitals gross, you shouldn't put up with this. Being with someone who says a part of your body is gross - especially your genitals - is clearly someone who has no respect for you. And there is nothing wrong with you wanting something out of sex, it's a basic need. So do not feel ashamed for it. Talk about it with him, see if maybe he is willing to take small steps into giving you some pleasure as well, because as you describe it now, it pretty much sucks.

Even if he is straight, he can still please you. Just because you are pre-op and you guys would have sex doesn't mean he's bisexual/gay or whatever. You are a woman, no matter your genitals. Genitals aren't the reason we have our sexualities. It's the persons, whether male or female, that we are attracted to as a whole. But of course some people just don't feel comfortable with certain genitals. But I guess you'll have to try and work something out before you go crazy. Women have needs, you know?

Hope this helped!

Quote from: Ugla on October 23, 2012, 08:03:21 AM
If your sex life is just about him, it's not much of a sex life I'd say. I know there are alot of transwomen who'd never want to do anything with their genitals pre-op but that doesn't mean that the ones that do are any "less trans." It is all a matter of how you are willing to express yourself and what you feel comfortable with. You aren't any less of a transwoman if you have sex pre-op, that's just a very prejudiced opinion that unfortunately alot of transwomen seem to have. You know best who you are, not someone else.

And honey, if he calls your genitals gross, you shouldn't put up with this. Being with someone who says a part of your body is gross - especially your genitals - is clearly someone who has no respect for you. And there is nothing wrong with you wanting something out of sex, it's a basic need. So do not feel ashamed for it. Talk about it with him, see if maybe he is willing to take small steps into giving you some pleasure as well, because as you describe it now, it pretty much sucks.

Even if he is straight, he can still please you. Just because you are pre-op and you guys would have sex doesn't mean he's bisexual/gay or whatever. You are a woman, no matter your genitals. Genitals aren't the reason we have our sexualities. It's the persons, whether male or female, that we are attracted to as a whole. But of course some people just don't feel comfortable with certain genitals. But I guess you'll have to try and work something out before you go crazy. Women have needs, you know?

Hope this helped!

Thank you so much for that, I kind of felt like it was wrong to have sexual needs in regards to being pre-op. Like a guilty shameful feeling because I haven't had SRS and wanted to get attention "there". But at the same time I'm here like TOOOUUUUCHH MEEEEEEEEEE X.X

Such a conflicting feeling.. My boyfriend is very adamant and I'm not sure if he will ever umm.. Consider what I want. He usually tells me "But I don't like that". I mean when someone says that it's like.. Okay sorry I don't want you doing it if you think its a chore or gross..
Kind of like asking for a gift or something on an anniversary. Blah I have alot to think about. I kind of take a step back and think, so once I get this surgery your going to love all of me, but you can't love me now?  Oh the madness in my head.. Estrogen makes me really emotional and small heartless things bother me alot..

If I was in your position having to hear him say "I don't like that" i'd wait until he hinted he was in the mood for some relief & i'd say "I don't like that, it doesn't satisfy MY needs, there are two of us in this relationship"

Maybe with the shoe on the other foot he'll realise that you have needs too, if he isn't comfortable touching you down below i'd understand that but to not let you touch yourself is extremely selfish.

Quote from: Jayne on October 23, 2012, 08:28:42 AM
If I was in your position having to hear him say "I don't like that" i'd wait until he hinted he was in the mood for some relief & i'd say "I don't like that, it doesn't satisfy MY needs, there are two of us in this relationship"

Maybe with the shoe on the other foot he'll realise that you have needs too, if he isn't comfortable touching you down below i'd understand that but to not let you touch yourself is extremely selfish.

That's really creative! hehehe Maybe Ill let him build up inside for a week or so and when hes pawing at me for it, Ill try to get a little something for myself. That's so smart, I never thought about that, Ill definitely try it and see what he says in response. He might just be a douche about it and teasingly say he will get it elsewhere then. ahhh okay. sounds like a plan >w<

Quote from: yasuko14 on October 23, 2012, 07:31:36 AM
I see a lot of opinions that a "true" trans girl would NEVER want her downstairs touched or acknowledged blah blah blah.

Poppycock, balderdash, bovine excrement, etc.

Your body parts were given to you to enjoy. There is nothing unfeminine about enjoying your body in whatever form it currently has.

Quote from: yasuko14 on October 23, 2012, 07:31:36 AM
Meanwhile I'm still unsatisfied and feeling ugly because he insists I don't touch myself and keep my panties on.. Because he calls it "gross".. 

You are beautiful Yasuko, because you are a person and because you are a woman. Therefore, no part of you is "gross". Anyone who thinks otherwise does not see the real you. If he will not touch you, learn to touch yourself in a way that will give yourself pleasure. Even though your body doesn't look the way it should, it is yours and therefore it's beautiful. If he does not want you to pleasure yourself in his presence (then he's missing out on one of the most wonderful parts of making love with a woman), then he can leave, but don't let that get in the way of your enjoyment.

There is nothing shameful about a woman having male parts. They're yours to use as long as you have them. You didn't ask for them, so no one can blame you or fault you for having them.

Quote from: yasuko14 on October 23, 2012, 07:31:36 AM
I know how they HAVE it, but what does "sex" entail?

Touch yourself all over. Caress yourself lovingly and invitingly and invite your partner to join you. The idea is to become so aroused that you are eager. If he joins you, great, if he doesn't, go ahead without him. He can watch or not as he sees fit. Become as aroused as you can make yourself, as aroused as you can stand. Relish this gift of being human, of being female. As you are aroused, allow yourself to completely enjoy the feeling of your own skin, of being alive, of being female, of being whole.

I hope this helps. Pre-ops and non-ops deserve sex and fulfillment as much as any other woman.

Quote from: yasuko14 on October 23, 2012, 07:59:08 AM
@.@ this is such a weird subject because IDK what I should feel and what I'm feeling or whats wrong to feel..

They are your feelings. Who is to say that your feelings are wrong? Feel what you feel.

I personally do not like my male equipment. However, since I have it, I have no problem using it. It is there to make me feel good. I do not consider myself any less trans just because I am not repulsed by it.

I can understand how your boyfriend feels it is gross. He is more than entitled to his opinion. However, he has chosen to love you. He does not get to choose which parts of you he loves. He needs to understand that you have needs to, and he needs to do his best to fulfill your needs. This does not mean he has to like it, he will probably have to sacrifice a bit of his enjoyment to fulfill your needs. Relationships are about compromise. Just my opinion.

When I met my ex she had one strict rule, love me love my dog.

I think you should adapt this saying for your boyfriend "love me love my ****"
If you love someone then you make sacrifices to make them happy, if he's making you unhappy with his view about your privates then this relationship is not going to be healthy for you in the long run. As you are trans you are no doubt already dealing with pressure you're putting on yourself about body issues, the last thing you need is pressure from your partner.

Quote from: Jayne on October 23, 2012, 08:57:33 AM
When I met my ex she had one strict rule, love me love my dog.

I think you should adapt this saying for your boyfriend "love me love my ****"
If you love someone then you make sacrifices to make them happy, if he's making you unhappy with his view about your privates then this relationship is not going to be healthy for you in the long run. As you are trans you are no doubt already dealing with pressure you're putting on yourself about body issues, the last thing you need is pressure from your partner.

but if he doesn't like that part he just doesn't like it and that should be respected too.

Quote from: Ave on October 23, 2012, 09:07:48 AM
but if he doesn't like that part he just doesn't like it and that should be respected too.

I agree, it does need to be respected. However, he does need to sacrifice a little comfort every now and then to ensure she gets what she needs. This does not mean, in my opinion, that he needs to touch it. She can handle that part. He just needs to understand that she deserves to be happy too.

Quote from: yasuko14 on October 23, 2012, 08:32:22 AM
That's really creative! hehehe Maybe Ill let him build up inside for a week or so and when hes pawing at me for it, Ill try to get a little something for myself. That's so smart, I never thought about that, Ill definitely try it and see what he says in response. He might just be a douche about it and teasingly say he will get it elsewhere then. ahhh okay. sounds like a plan >w<

One very important rule of relationships, don't use sex to manipulate your partner. If it can't be worked out without going down that road, then its not going to be a good relationship as you'll likely later on find other reasons to use it to get what you want once it works one time. 

Quote from: Jaime on October 23, 2012, 09:12:24 AM
One very important rule of relationships, don't use sex to manipulate your partner.   

I understand what you're getting at but by expecting to be pleasured whilst effectively banning your partner is selfish, controlling & manipulative "I expect to recieve pleasure but you can't have pleasure" not a healthy base for a relationship.
This is why I suggested the occasional session with the lights out, pleasure should be shared in a relationship or it's doomed, it's a matter of give & take.

Quote from: Ave on October 23, 2012, 09:07:48 AM
but if he doesn't like that part he just doesn't like it and that should be respected too.

But if he has an issue with what she has down below then he shouldn't have entered into a relationship with her, to have a relationship being so one sided in the bedroom is disrespectful, hence "love me, love my ****"

Maybe my view is so set in stone due to an 8 year relationship with a woman, I loved her for the person she is but I didn't like her genitals, at no time did I verbaly refuse to satisfy her in the bedroom, my member often refused to co-operate & when it went into hiding I would spend as long as it took satisfying her oraly, I hated doing it but I loved her so I made the sacrifice so she could be happy.

I think he needs to examine his reasoning.  How can he say it's gross when he has the same equipment and has no problem with YOU giving HIM pleasure in that regards.  It's not like you're asking him to satisfy you orally or for him to play bottom.  You're only asking for recognition that your needs are as valid and as important as his.

If he isn't able to to figure out how one-sided his views are - and to rethink them, then I say it's time to look for a new relationship.  While sex shouldn't be the only thing important in a relationship, it IS an important thing.  And the issue you're having shows a demonstrated lack of respect and understanding for your half of the relationship.  It's not selfish to feel you deserve to be in a mutually satisfying relationship.  You DO deserve it.  We all do.  And the plumbing shouldn't affect that right.

One should never be made to feel they deserve less than everything!

Best of luck in making it work!  I hope it does.  It's much easier to fix what may be a minor problem in a good relationship than to start from scratch - and less emotionally painful.

*wow*  100th post!  :D

Well, personally I think it's rude of him to say things like "gross," and rather unkind/inconsiderate not to be willing to consider your needs at all. It seems like there's a huge gray area between "I don't want to do some specific things," like people who don't like giving ->-bleeped-<-s, and "I refuse to do anything to please you at all, no matter what," and he's planted himself firmly on the wrong side of that one and won't venture into negotiation territory at all.

I'm coming at it from the other side - when my wife was pre-op, I made an effort to do whatever she liked as well. (And that changed; sometimes she wanted to be touched there, sometimes she preferred everything above the waist, plus "how" she wanted to be touched [not going into details] could be different.) I put some energy into reading her signals so she wouldn't have to ASK me to do - or not do! - something and feel awkward about that, too. It seemed only fair, since she always worked hard to please me too. 

When I first met my wife over 30 years ago, she was pre-op, I was working hard at faking "Normal" Perhaps it was my unique perspective but I damn well knew I was dating a TS and yes, sometimes I might see things she would rather me not. If I said "Gross" I would not have been able to be the luckiest person in the world to have her in my life to this day.

I was far from alone in competition for her. Nor was she the only pre-op TS I dated. She did not in any way want me doing oral. Even post-op she is squimish about it. She was able to achieve an orgasim anally. Not all TS's can. Two that I dated were OK with oral. At all times my partners needs always took precedence over mine. (Partly since sex was never a big thing for me for some obvious reasons)

This guy sounds like he needs a serious talking to. IMHO he is essentially a ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-. Into the fantisy of having a TS, just not the reality of it. Any relationship takes work and nuturing. One with a TS even more so since there is a LOT of bagage. Even more with a pre-op. ou may not be all that thrilled about what is in your panties. You certainly do not need to be critisized for it by someone you have an intimate relationship with.

Quote from: Annah on October 23, 2012, 07:47:13 AM
U were placed on hrt when you were 10?

Seems dodgy to me too, but it's not ENTIRELY impossible.

A s far as I am concerned I just look at it as having a really big clitoris, there are a fair few Intersex people who view it the same way from what I have been able to gather. 

Also, your skin is your largest organ and is covered in nerve cells, especially in areas like the breasts.  Orgasm can be achieved anywhere really, it just takes practice and being self aware.  Meditation can help cultivate this.
If your BF hasn't figured out that breasts are fun he really needs a reality check. It sounds like it is time for you to let him know you have needs too, and that he either considers you or you replace him.

Tough choice but it is a matter of self-respect as I see it.

Karen.

Quote from: Aryana_V on October 24, 2012, 12:24:08 AM
Seems dodgy to me too, but it's not ENTIRELY impossible.

I had alot of endo problems growing up so I was able to voice my feelings early on I suppose. My doctor never had anyone come forward wanting estrogen or to go a certain route other than their biological makings. I lived in a small town and she is the local pediatrician at our Kaiser. I had to fly out to another city's Kaiser to meet with an endocrinologist eventually who is now overseeing my blood work, prescriptions, etc.

I personally wouldn't wish an early transition upon my worst enemies.. Kid's are mean and parents are very cruel and judgmental. I honestly hate that town and most of the people in it. No kid growing up should have to be treated like that at such a young age. It's bad enough being a regular adolescent, so much worse when you have all these issues and everyone thinks its their business just because you are under 18. I'm 20 now and I refuse to ever be disrespected how I was over the past years..

And thank you to everyone who has replied..
Sometimes I just need a little feedback or an opinion on how I'm feeling, and its amazing to read all your opinions and supportive messages/posts.
It gets so hard sometimes because I can't relate to my girlfriends and gay friends, their problems are just so different at times. I'm living the life of a young woman in college but with all these weird and extra issues, handicaps, and problems, that nobody I know around me has. Being stealth doesn't make it any easier because a lot of my closest friends have no idea. I just can't wait to be penis free and be able to live my life comfortably..

Forgive me for this but I'm going to be blunt.

He sounds like a looser. How insensitive is it to not want to please your partner?? He went into a relationship knowing you were trans and pre op so what's the issue?? And to tell someone their parts are "Gross" is ridiculous. Like what's the point??. And sweety you shouldn't feel shamed for wanting pleasure it's a basic human desire. No matter your plans for srs you still have a body parts that are able to receive pleasure. Why should you be denied or shamed into thinking your penis is off limits. That's only something you can decide. If he wants to be selfish and let you do all the work with no reciprocation why not get a sex toy?? I feel for you and hope that you find what you need. Your boyfriend needs to get it together before he finds himself by himself.