Susan's Place Transgender Resources

A Genderless Society Is Not the Answer

Filed By Drew Cordes | November 04, 2012 10:00 AM

http://www.bilerico.com/2012/11/a_genderless_society_is_not_the_answer.php?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BilericoProject+%28The+Bilerico+Project%29&utm_content=FaceBook (http://www.bilerico.com/2012/11/a_genderless_society_is_not_the_answer.php?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BilericoProject+%28The+Bilerico+Project%29&utm_content=FaceBook)

Last weekend I attended the wonderful Transcending Boundaries Conference in Springfield, Mass., with a sizable crowd of folks across the gender and sexuality spectrums, as well as many caring allies. There were classes, great people, thought-provoking discussions and more. During a chat I had with a genderfluid person, we touched upon the idea of a genderless society. Many people in the room had a favorable view of this premise, but to their surprise, I insisted that such a world would be more sinister and oppressive than liberating.

At first blush, this hypothetical can sound appealing to many of us (both trans and cis) who often feel disadvantaged or persecuted because of our sex/gender. If there's no more gender, women and trans people can't be marginalized! No more pay inequality! No more clothing restrictions! No more nightmares in bathrooms, Customs, the DMV, etc. You can imagine the possibilities.

[...]

Stripping away gendered meanings would certainly eliminate a tool of oppression, but it also would eliminate an essential part of identity. Part of the reason many people transition is that the gendered meanings assigned to our bodies militate against our very sense of self. Our identification with the opposite or nontraditional gendered meanings is so strong that we undergo surgeries, terrible pain, emotional turbulence, social stigma, alienation from family and friends... the list goes on. We do these things to be able to express the gender we wish. That's how much gender means to us - that's the empowering side. We're willing to fight to possess it.

This to me is a very valid point.  As a scientist pointed out once, it is the butterfly's struggle to get out of the cocoon that allows its wings to unfold properly and enable it to live its true life.  A genderless society would deprive us of the struggle needed to achieve our true selves.

A genderless society will just lead us to ...

We are the Borg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyenRCJ_4Ww#)

I would settle for a society that realizes that gender doesn't have to conform to all our expectations and that not every non-conforming person is rebelling or trying to fool people. Some of us are just trying to let the world see who we are.

I like gender, people just treat me as the wrong one

Quote from: Ms. OBrien on November 04, 2012, 06:00:32 PM
A genderless society will just lead us to ...

What is so wrong with that huh?

Come, join us.

Prepare to be assimilated.

You get a cookie afterward.

Quote from: SourCandy on November 04, 2012, 10:53:38 PM
What is so wrong with that huh?

Come, join us.

Prepare to be assimilated.

You get a cookie afterward.

Nothing.  As long as I can be ...

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprofile.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhprofile-ak-snc6%2F187115_100002450041797_7820361_n.jpg&hash=ff104946aedc73971fd451424022d76973f64db8)

Society should be genderless.  People can. Be whatever gender they are.  But a lot of the societal gender bs hurts more than it helps.

QuoteA genderless society is a fascist society. Your unique gender expression, and those of everyone else, would cease to exist, instead replaced with uniformity.

I don't wish to appear to be putting up arguments against the majority, but I think this statement demonstrates that the whole argument is flawed.

It poses several claims. That a genderless is somehow fascist. That gender expression would cease to exist and somehow be replaced by uniformity.

Sadly, the general culture seems to assume that fascism and Nazism are the same, so I'll work on that basis. The supression of a characteristic, assuming it is even possible, will not necessarily lead to a fascist society. Fascism is considerably more complicated than that. (Though with respect, I think the writer is referring to a nazi society).

That gender expression would cease to exist is an assertion that can only be made if we fully understand the nature of a genderless society, how it is achieved, what social mechanisms will be introducted or engineered.

Replaced by uniformity, is the greatest of presumptions. Even assuming it could be achieved, ti would simply be replaced by other divisions. Humans, by their nature, divide themselves. We are doing this right now, by not all saying exactly the same thing.

I don't know if this is the nightmare hte writer is thinking about, but I personally, would like to see a society where people can express themsleves in which ever way they choose, within the boundaries of consideration and decency. I can't define those last two, any more than we can now. But restrictions should always be justifiable rather than dogmatic or traditional.

Now in such a society, there would be no gender expression as such in that, there will be no distinction between how men and woman, dress, develop their characters, who they fall in love with or what they call themselves.

That seems pretty genderless to me.

I think a genderless society would be a great thing, however it would never work. People cling to their gender as their self identity. There is nothing necessarily wrong with that other than the self segregation aspect.

Also, becoming the borg would not be the worst fate for humanity.. I'd embrace it!!!  >:-)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cristanwilliams.com%2Fb%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F07%2Fborg-borg-borg.jpg&hash=2e3d863b5cd0c45981308ae1b0952c6c098478d0)

(sorry, had to)

I think the best way to evolve culture is to toss as many random variables in there as possible. Diversity in the people = varied ideas, methods, insights, opinions, etc.

I'd like to see the imposition of a gender binary end. Gender expression should be more flexible. I also feel that so much of gender if societally-constructed and I feel like we need to continue exploring that, like how much of gender is biologically imposed and how much is trained into us. All of that is part of the binary fallacy though.

"Oh, you're a boy, Here, learn to wear these clothes and play with these toys and rah, rah, rah when you tackle other boys during the football game" etc. We believe gender is binary and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and I think we're so immersed in that mindset that we don't even realize when we're training kids to fit into binary roles.

But that doesn't mean genderless. It just means more gender-flexible.

The argument is extremely warped. Gender, from a societal perspective, is a code of rules. That's it. If anything is "facist" (why do people use that word for emphasis? don't do this people), it's our current system that forces gendered expectations onto innocent things like "pink" or "suit" or most disturbingly "emotion." A genderless society is just a way of saying a society with no gender rules. Sure there wouldn't be any gender->-bleeped-<-ing anymore. Because there would be no need. Just like sexism would stop being a thing. I'll take that trade, thanks.

But while we are talking about utopias, I have a long wish list. I.e. this is not a thing that is ever going to happen. At least not in any of our lifetimes.

You know the most disturbing thing about that article: the author's perceptions are so poisoned by our system that they can't even conceptualize a world in which something can make you feel pretty, without it needing to be classed as feminine.

Never mind genderLESS, what I would like to see is genderFULL. A world resplendent with a zillion beautiful, diverse genders and gender expressions! A world that honors and rejoices in all of them!

Z

Binary gender is an incredibly powerful meme. It would require consent and a relinquishment of the power from the 'majority' who reap the rewards of the current system. What would be in it for them? Good, happy warm feelings? It would require a revolution like no other. It would be on par with secularising the world. It's fantasy, but I hope I'm really wrong. As has been intimated, if you can't beat them...