Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I am a special ed. teacher and just discovered today-- what are the odds--one of my middle school kids (13 years old) might be trans. Apparently ze (not sure what pronoun here) told another teacher (but not me) that ze was "a girl in a boys body". I understand though it is possible at this age (?) for zer to be gay. Do you think this is true? This child is Latino which often means the family is probably not going to be really not supportive. I am not out at all at work (except to 5 or so people). None of hte kids know I am trans, but I am wearing more male clothes and have a guy's haircut. I don't pass.

It might help this kid to tell him in some way (if I can get teh other teacher to tell this kid to tell me) that ze is not alone in this. But not sure what else I could say.

This is a public school and we have state and school district non-discriminatory policies. Any ideas?
However, I am retiring at the end of the school year and feel it would really complicate my life to come out. But I am free to say things I might not be able to say in a different state.

--Jay J

Jay J, I'd talk to them about transgender. "Do you know there are people who are born with a male body who feel like they're female inside. That's called transgender." Just knowing there's a word for what they are might help.

Also say you're available if they want to talk to you.

However, I wouldn't come out to the student. If they're like I was at that age, I SO didn't wan't to know about the private lives and ideosyncrasies of the adults around me.

Can you get a pamphlet about Transgender from your Trans center? If your student is a visual or kinesthetic person, maybe something they can see or hold would be helpful.

I had a trans student a few years ago. I also had a trans student earlier this year--my first semester teaching at this school, and I get a trans student!

With the first student, I was trying so hard not to think about trans issues that I just couldn't come out to her. Of course, I dressed very butch and had a completely male name...maybe that's why the student felt safe coming out to me.

The second student came out to me because she had to; she presents as female and goes by a girl name but has a male legal name. I struggled with my decision to maintain my privacy, and I am so glad I decided to "market" myself as an ordinary gay man (who knows the territory because my close friend is trans) rather than a gay trans man. I figure that I can't predict all the repercussions, so it's best to be safe.

I wouldn't come out to a student, especially a minor (you never know how the parents will react), but that's me.

Thanks for your responses AG and Arch. I agree not to come out to a student (if you are not out to yourself), and didn't ever really think it was a good idea. I sort of doubt a kid could keep a confidence, even if theoretically I would be protected. This could always be contested in some way.

But I do feel that I should do something. It's a very lonely thing, esp. since I am guessing this kid figures he is all alone in the world.

The trans center here is wonderful, but I wonder how parents would react to literature or anything lying around. There are groups for teens and parents and so on. The Latino culture can be so conservative (and is very ultra-religious).

But I could come across as someone who knows some other way. Just the word and concept might be helpful.

>If your student is a visual or kinesthetic person, maybe something they can see or hold would be helpful.

Hehe, well since this is likely mtf it wouldn't be a packer. LOL!

--Jay J

Hi Aleon - a special ed teacher. Awesome. I think you could just suggest that you know others in the same situation and if ze ever wanted to talk you would listen. You may suggest that others have found a local trans center helpful - but you want to me careful here because you don't want the parents to think that you are 'encouraging' "such behavior". It is a fine line teachers have to walk between being supportive of the student and having parents throw a fit.

So what plans do you have for retirement?

If I may can I say, no-one says they are transgender if they aren't.

Think about it? It's hardly anything that could be a fad.

OK, so someone might like to try cross dressing. They might even like to try homosexuality. But our gender is so much part of who we each are. If someone is saying, especially, but not only, at the age of 13, they are a girl in a boy's body, then they have had this on their mind a while.

How you or they proceed from here is for people who understand teaching. But I think the pronoun is excellent. And I do wish you and teachers generally, well.

you could tell the teacher ze came out to that you are quite knowledgeable about trans issues, both through reading a lot, and your trans friends (you have lots of us here...), so you could have a talk with the student. you don't have to encourage anything, just having someone to talk to who isn't judging could be enough for zem. no need for you to out yourself, being openly open minded is enough.

Thanks guys (gals) for your responses.

Well funnily the kid came out to one of the 5 people I have told I am trans. :)
She's someone I work with, not just a random person at the school which is why she told me. He's also in my class 3-4 hours a day.

@Spacial--It's what I have heard, that some number of kids are gay. I have always heard this and lately have thought it was unlikely. I also "came out" as trans at age 7. I recall it quite well. I didn't change my mind either. Esp not a kid who would say that he was born in the wrong body, which is almost a trans stereotype.

There's another reason for the pronoun. If I start thinking "her", I could "slip". I already did that once. The kids did not like it. And I don't want zer teased (more than ze is).  I am sure I was thinking how trans I thought ze was. I am not likely to slip with zer as it forced for me, but even if I did it wouldn't be understood.

@Arch/henrytwob- Yeah about the parents. I have worked with LOTS of Latino families since moving to NM. They have great family bonds but being socially liberal is not one of their virtues, let's just say. Sure there are exceptions. But I wouldn't want to take a chance.

@taka others-- I think the whole thing of letting the kid know I know others who are trans and so on is a good tack. I don't even have to necessarily get the teacher to tell the kid to tell me. We talk about stuff like the word "gay" used as a slur. One reason to tell where I was is that that kind of discussion is actually encouraged where I live, vs some places where it might be frowned on.
They gave us a pamphlet on "What to do when the kids say 'gay'".

BTW, I know lots of trans people in real life since I go to support groups and hang around at the trans center.

--Jay J

Think about it? It's hardly anything that could be a fad.

Sure it could be, and in some cases is.  There have been a number of posts about it.

Quote from: tekla on November 17, 2012, 02:19:13 PM
Think about it? It's hardly anything that could be a fad.

Sure it could be, and in some cases is.  There have been a number of posts about it.

Or it could be that they're self-harming and will try to kill themselves in a couple more years.

I would talk to them. Knowing that trans* people exist, that there are options, that they aren't entirely alone would be helpful. Regardless of what they end up deciding to do with their life and their body.

Well not sure where this kid would pick up such a fad. I'd be more likely to think that it was this was a kid who was gay or perhaps it is a phase rather than a fad. OTOH, ze's a little old for a phase and htis is probably a long standing thing. Yes, I agree Sarah re: the risks to zer. Likely to feel alone.


--Jay J

I don't believe ze picked it up anywhere. I also disagree it could be a fad. Simply because gender is so close to what we are.

We can change our initial resolve, depending upon circumstances. Confusion of sexual orientation, pressure, especially guilt or fear pressure.

I spent a short period, in my 20s where I positively turned against the whole notion and even began constructing arguments to justify.

But in the end, we are what we are. I may appear to be male. But I'm still and always will be trangender.

Quote from: spacial on November 18, 2012, 10:18:38 AM
I don't believe ze picked it up anywhere. I also disagree it could be a fad. Simply because gender is so close to what we are.

We can change our initial resolve, depending upon circumstances. Confusion of sexual orientation, pressure, especially guilt or fear pressure.

I spent a short period, in my 20s where I positively turned against the whole notion and even began constructing arguments to justify.

But in the end, we are what we are. I may appear to be male. But I'm still and always will be trangender.

Yeah my point too. I don't think this is a fad, as I don't think this kid would hear anythign about this and pick up this kind of thing anywhere. Maybe some of zer peers could go to youtube and find out this exists. But ze is pretty isolated from that sort of thing for quite a few reasons. I also think that when people go to youtube, for instance, they are usually looking for something. I said I was not surprised as ze does many things a day that make me believe this is true. OTOH, I do not know much about trans in children, though of course I was a trans child too, I guess.

I know kids now are exposed to more. And young kids do experiment. But I don't think the statement "born in a girl's body" sounds like an experiment.

BTW, I find it interesting since I started identifying as trans, how much freer all the kids seem with gender stereotypes. Pink and purple are hot colors by the boys now and I had to double my stock of purple construction paper. LOL. :) At first the kids were silly about it. "I'll take the truck or the flower sticker"(with nervous giggles). Since I didn't respond they are doing this without the giggling.


--Jay J

I am still a student. I haven't told anyone in my school. I am pretty sure they just think i am gay. What is cool is that some people who don't know me sometimes think i am a guy, which is awesome. I don't believe there is any right time to figure these things out, so it is possible. There are other possibilities to, but for now i agree with agfrommd with this. Just make people aware.

Quote from: aleon515 on November 18, 2012, 12:20:14 PM
Maybe some of zer peers could go to youtube and find out this exists.
--Jay J

I thought about those sort of sources as well, but it would still require the prospect of trying transgender, to be both interesting and attractive.

I could imagine, for example, someone who is unsuccessful with the opposite sex searching out a gay relationship for example. The result has some expectations and can be seen as short term.

But it just seems so unlikely that anyone could seriously believe that opting to call themselves transgender is likely to make them either happier or relieve their frustrations.

Granted, I managed to dilude myself, at about 14 or so, that if I put on a dress, got a woman's job and an apartment, I could somehow avoid the horror of what was to come. (I never actually got to the point of actually trying it of course.  ;D) But I already knew something was very wrong, I just happened to live in a time and place where it would be seen as rather less acceptable than thinking Hitler might be interesting.

I apologise for being persistant on this point. I wouldn't seek to influence you or your judgements as a professional teacher. In that you have my unconditional respect.

I do feel however, that as a point of interest, within Susans', it's worth exploring.

No Spacial, I don't think you are being too persistent. I think you are trying to make the point that it would be unlikely that this student could be in some kind of fad or somethign like that. I definitely agree. I think actually VERY few kids might not be actually trans who would make such a statement.

It was a question I originally put forth. I actually don't agree with the question, as I think Dr. Spack has done a lot of work in the area of young transgenders. Of the kids they put on puberty blockers only a very few stop and go back on their decision. I still don't know much about transgender in childhood, even though, I was a transgender child at one time. (LONG LONG ago). :)

@Hopefull, not sure how much older you are than my student (ze is 13). I would guess that most of the teachers do think you are gay. I raised a question about some kid that apparently wanted to be called a boy's name and they very strongly stated this kid wasn't trans. I don't think most teachers know anything about this and I can assure you it is way way out of our training. I only know as much as I do because I am trans too.

One thing that our district has is a GBLT policy and taht sort of thing.


--Jay J

What are the odds?

About one in three hundred and thirty-three (3 out of every 1,000)

How many students have you taught?

Quote from: Jamie D on November 18, 2012, 11:33:49 PM
What are the odds?

About one in three hundred and thirty-three (3 out of every 1,000)

But if those numbers are correct, they reflect the odds that any teacher will have a trans student, not that a trans instructor will have a trans student.

Quote from: Arch on November 19, 2012, 03:24:50 AM
But if those numbers are correct, they reflect the odds that any teacher will have a trans student, not that a trans instructor will have a trans student.

I am guessing that is going to be very hard to calculate. :)
Ok, well I talked to the class. Someone used the word "gay" and I sat the whole class. Told them (again) why they shouldn't say this but added that someone might be gay *or transgender*. Explained what that was. Said there is nothing wrong with this. Said I knew people well who were transgender and gay. (Also apparently he has told someone in the class because I noticed him whisper to this girl when I said I knew someone. I was happy he apparently has talked to a friend.

I noticed when the kid left he seemed really happy. :)

(Glad I live in a blue state.)

--Jay J

Quote from: aleon515 on November 19, 2012, 05:54:51 PM

I noticed when the kid left he seemed really happy. :)

(Glad I live in a blue state.)

--Jay J

So am I. And I'm also really glad ze had a teacher like you.

Quote from: Arch on November 19, 2012, 03:24:50 AM
But if those numbers are correct, they reflect the odds that any teacher will have a trans student, not that a trans instructor will have a trans student.

True, but since Jay J is 100% trans*, the odds for Jay J remains 1 in 333.

Otherwise, it is about 1 in 100,000, if a quick calculation is correct.

Quote from: Jamie D on November 21, 2012, 03:51:47 AM
True, but since Jay J is 100% trans*, the odds for Jay J remains 1 in 333.

Otherwise, it is about 1 in 100,000, if a quick calculation is correct.

Ok, the odds for me are the same as anyone else, but the odds of some trans teacher having a trans student-- I think that's kind of the question I wasn't really asking. :)
Is that what the 1 in 100,000 is?


Thanks Spacial for your vote of confidence. It was a good feeling, feeling I had got it right (and also that I live in a blue state!!).

--Jay J

Quote from: aleon515 on November 19, 2012, 05:54:51 PM
Ok, well I talked to the class. Someone used the word "gay" and I sat the whole class. Told them (again) why they shouldn't say this but added that someone might be gay *or transgender*. Explained what that was. Said there is nothing wrong with this. Said I knew people well who were transgender and gay. (Also apparently he has told someone in the class because I noticed him whisper to this girl when I said I knew someone. I was happy he apparently has talked to a friend.

I noticed when the kid left he seemed really happy. :)

It made me happy when I read this.

Please keep us updated, I'd love to hear a happy ending!

Not sure there will be much of an update, as I don't plan to talk a lot more of this. I already said a lot given my setting and the fact that I am not out at work.

BTW, funny thing, this one kid calls me sir a lot. Someone else called me sir in my class the other day. Mind you most of the time they don't but it was cool anyway.

--Jay J