Susan's Place Transgender Resources

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There are some people who would give anything to be invited anywhere for Christmas, by anyone.

Quote from: muuu on December 04, 2012, 03:29:10 AM

I hate being with my family, the atmosphere is horrible and it's just really uncomfortable. They've raised and grown up with me being male, and I've always hated to be around them. As soon as I got home from school I'd go to bed and I lived at a dorm when I turned 16 (new school). I don't even get why they regard me as family, because I've barely been with them at all.

The reality is whether or not one is "comfortable" within the family still does not mean that there aren't ties within the family. Even if you do not see them the other family members still see those ties. Question Why do you hate being around them?

I know why I hate being around my family. My brothers and sisters can't stand each other,me or my parents. The trans issues were not the problem just the final nail in the coffin.

Quote from: muuu on December 04, 2012, 03:29:10 AM

I don't hate them or blame them (My older sister was not so supportive of my somewhat feminine behavior when I was young) for anything, they did what they thought was right.
How can trans people even want to see their family again? I seriously am always confused about that whenever I read about one of those family issue threads.

I can only say for myself. Why do I hope for a time where I can actually see them and talk to them?
No matter how much I try I still care about them. They are still related by flesh and blood. We still have a common bond of years of being under the same roof. Same parents,schools,teachers etc. If we can get past all the garbage,we still have common experiences that no one else can relate to in the same way.

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I am an only child and have always been especially close to my mother.  We basically share everything and she is coming up to see me and my children at Christmas. I am looking forward to it so much, I haven't gotten to see her in a over a year.  Probably not very helpful to your question but I honestly don't feel awkward around my parents now as a woman and look forward to seeing them.

I don't know your situation, do you live full time now? If your not full time and transitioning at the start of your journey I can see how you might feel a bit awkward about still being seen as masculine. That is why they call it the awkward phase of transition.

Not to make you feel guilty, but I think you should treasure the fact that your family accepts you being trans here and now and forget about the past, so many of our trans sisters and brothers don't have that kind of support.

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Being around family can bring a whole host of emotions for many people. I for one don't think that just because you were raised with someone, or share genetic ties to them that you should have to be around them. However, I do feel that family is very important. I know how awkward it is to be around family before and during transition. I personally did not let it stop me, too much. I found that after I came out that the majority of the awkward feelings left. I am far more comfortable around my family now than I was before. Just my opinion here, you should try and give them a chance. The first couple of times might still feel awkward, but it may get better after that. Maybe instead of getting together with all of them at Christmas, you could get together with a couple of them before hand. Let that be your test on how Christmas might go.

No matter which route you choose I wish you the best of luck.

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Quote from: muuu on December 04, 2012, 09:19:45 AM
Well, last year I just took some benzo and went there for an hour and a half, but I really don't want to go there this year again.

Has nobody told their parents off, and not spent Christmas with them? It can't be that unusual.

I was ready to cut out my own family as well Muuu - for me, there were decades of history and issues there. But I listened to the advice of a good friend, and decided to make a new start last year when I had already decided I needed to transition. This however, was after five years that I had not spoken to my family at all because I couldn't tolerate the drama and the expectation that I slip into old roles and masks.

Only you can know if you are ready to go back in to the family dynamics, but this time as your true self.

So last Autumn I took a chance on one family member, my older sister, who I came out to, not only about being a woman, but also about all the other stuff I was dealing with including my problems with the family. I was ready to walk away, but I'm glad I gave her a chance. She drew me in to her family and made me welcome, and Thanksgiving 2011 I was out as Maddie with her part of the family, and dressing in clothes that made me feel like me. I never went back to my old gender presentation with family from that point on, and if they accepted me, wonderful, and if not, that was alright.

A year later, and I am reunited but on a much better and healthier basis, with every member of my extended family. I'm saying this not to suggest what you should do - after all, I stayed away most of the time for 20 years - but to say that people do come around, and families do make new starts. Having my own firm boundaries and refusing to be anyone but myself ever again with them, started the transformation in my family's case.

I agree that just because you are related by flesh and blood does not mean that's it "family".  It's just that for some those bonds can be very strong but not for all.

If it was because of some sort of abuse issues,I would wonder why you would be concerned about sparing your mother's feelings. It sounds like your mother does care about you,and if you want to keep her from getting hurt to badly,perhaps you this may help (Just take it for what it's worth) You could state it like this, "Mom,I really need some time and space for myself and at this point in time I would prefer not to come this year" It should leave the doors open if you do decide that you do want it at a future time. You don't want to lay blame if no one did anything wrong.

Most people that are LGBTQQI or something along those lines don't even get invited for "any" Holiday by their families. My mom wont accept what I feel inside nor would most of my family, and I haven't told everyone yet. My mother and both fathers were abusive to me and we never usually had any kind of happy holidays, only a few times did things actually seem normal. You should be thrilled beyond belief that your own blood relatives want to see you and spend time with you as the person you are now.

Quote from: Kim 526 on December 04, 2012, 06:10:40 AM
There are some people who would give anything to be invited anywhere for Christmas, by anyone.

I used to be that person, Kim, so I started making my own holiday gatherings many years ago and drawing people to me that I liked to be with. No need to be passive about what you need. What you said is very true. So don't wait for an invitation ever again. Invite.

If your own family doesnt fit you or make you feel at home, create a new one. Family is easy to make, just start with one new sister or new brother and build from there. You can invite your friends to your place for the holidays; even if everyone is busy or too shy, it still tells them you care.

Quote from: Kim 526 on December 04, 2012, 06:10:40 AM
There are some people who would give anything to be invited anywhere for Christmas, by anyone.

Especially in the trans community.

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I think you should go. It'll change you from your routine. And you know, it might help your family understand you better. You might even get closer. And if you do, well... Everything always seems so much easier when people are there with you.

And even if you don't get closer... Will it really hurt? At the very least you'll please them by showing up, no?

If you don't mind me asking, are you seeing a therapist?

x-mas or hannaku alone sucks!!! yet, it is harder to be with peop[le who fight, get drunk, argue, hate you, and in general make you feel uncomfortable.

make an excuse, I am going to be in a bussines/school trip to timbuktu, or I have been asked and accepted to be with my gf/friend family. There is also the 'ultimate" do not show up (disconect the phone)

Quote from: muuu on December 04, 2012, 03:29:10 AM
How can trans people even want to see their family again? I seriously am always confused about that whenever I read about one of those family issue threads.

I don't understand. My family is the most important thing to me and have given me the most support. I'd be nowhere or 6 ft under without them. They knew me for 20 odd years or so or less as a male. So what? This will always be so and cannot ever be changed unless I "glamour" them or something. Being assertive and confident in your identity should trump their 'wicked' defeminizing looks and internal thoughts. But you say they have been supportive and accepting? What more can you ask for? What more can they do?

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That's ok Muuu. If you feel being with your family for Christmas would hurt, follow your heart. Nobody has to understand but you. I understand completely. There is a vulnerable stage of our lives where we are changing but we aren't strong yet, and family patterns can be so strong that they suck us back. Just tell them you love them and that you hope they have a wonderful Christmas, and that you have other plans this year.

Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. \

I've been around, exposed to, and had to interact with many different families over the course of my life.  Some - most perhaps - are powerful forces of love and strength.  But, to be sure, some families are the sickest, most degenerate spaces inhabited by human beings.  The worst of them act like a centrifuge purifying and enriching the most despicable traits for everyone involved.

So, I'd never presume to tell people "oh it's the most wonderful thing, you're so lucky to have one that wants you".  For a hella lot of people NOT spending time with their family is absolutely the best, most positive and liberating thing in the world they could do. 

When they are good, I guess they are fine.  But when they are not, I know they are way toxic.

And if you don't like yours, make a new one.  It's not all that hard.

Besides, how can they miss you if you don't go away.

Quote from: muuu on December 04, 2012, 11:39:14 PM
No, my local hospital wants me to go to another hospital 3 hours away, which I'm not really going to do...

I say this in sincere concern. In your case, I truly believe you should go to ANY therapist. The way you look at yourself and the conditions you set for yourself seem to me to be extreme and dangerous. I do not think anybody here will be able to help you until you get some professional help first. I want you to have a good life (just like I want everybody on these forums to have a good life), but I do not think you can get that, in your specific case, until you actually get help. And please, do not make excuses for yourself as to why you cannot get help from SOMEBODY in the area. You are the pilot of your life, nobody else. This is extremely important and I just don't see you feeling better about yourself until somebody who knows quite a bit about psychology sees you.

Love ya hon, and I hope for the best.

Quote from: tekla on December 05, 2012, 12:17:27 AM
Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. \

I've been around, exposed to, and had to interact with many different families over the course of my life.  Some - most perhaps - are powerful forces of love and strength.  But, to be sure, some families are the sickest, most degenerate spaces inhabited by human beings.  The worst of them act like a centrifuge purifying and enriching the most despicable traits for everyone involved.

So, I'd never presume to tell people "oh it's the most wonderful thing, you're so lucky to have one that wants you".  For a hella lot of people NOT spending time with their family is absolutely the best, most positive and liberating thing in the world they could do. 

When they are good, I guess they are fine.  But when they are not, I know they are way toxic.

And if you don't like yours, make a new one.  It's not all that hard.

Besides, how can they miss you if you don't go away.

Just because a family member says they want to be with you does not mean that their motives are pure. A toxic situation can include on going manipulation, deceit, theft, fraud, betrayal, defamation of character,etc etc. No one should have to deal with those things. Those are things that are very very hard to work through. It's better to walk away than to remain there.

Quote from: muuu on December 04, 2012, 11:39:14 PM
They can't do anything more. But just because they accept me doesn't mean I want to be with them.

My current opinion is one expressed 15 years post transition. Post event horizon, call it. I may have had similar dilemmas, but nothing is fresh in my mind any more. If I did then they were obviously resolved or were just a blip in the realm of things. Family situations are very dynamic. Perhaps they can change for the better. My biggest flaw is being a hopeless optimist. Hope has always stood me in good stead.

I think whether or not you want to see your family really depends on the type of home life you had growing up. I came from a family with a very emotionally and abusive father, so I learned early on to not let a single family member find out what who I really was. I haven't started fulltime and right now I'm thinking I want to cut all ties with family, and anybody that knew me as male. That may change as I gain confidence though. I'd imagine someone with a very supportive family would feel the exact opposite.

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Quote from: muuu on December 05, 2012, 09:24:05 AM
So, after a lot of sleeping and thinking I think I've figured out why I don't like being with them.

I feel judged, ridiculed and humiliated when I am with them, they don't say anything out loud about anything like that. But I still feel they find me pathetic and will always see me as a man.
Even though they say they understand, asked for a female name to get used to, and doesn't even use male pronoun. I still don't know what they're thinking, or if they're just putting up a display, and having their fun behind it.

There's nothing they can do to let me drop these ideas, and seeing them won't change how I feel, at all. If I had hips and looked feminine enough to pass, I guess this issue wouldn't be as hard to deal with.
So yeah... Maybe I could tell them I feel a bit uncomfortable around them? Or maybe they'd dismiss that, or feel offended?

That makes a lot of sense. So the problem you are feeling is internal to you, and not being able to know what other people think, even if they are outwardly supportive. And if I am reading correctly, your own frustration and fears about your body and ability to pass.

No pressure from me, but as supportive as they have been, you may want to consider opening up to the most understanding member of your family and asking them for advice about it. I cannot express to you how nervous I was about appearing dressed as ME at a family function for the first time, but also how thrilling it was and what an amazing relief to me internally when it turned out to be a non-issue. There is always a time to start every journey, and steps to get to where you want to go. You may find that you can let your family, or parts of it, in, to see your insecurity (not about who you are - make that clear - but about your ability to be accepted as who you are in the world). Friends and family both can be an amazing comfort in those painful first step days. I haven't regretted ending a lifelong habit of not sharing my challenges and fears until I resolve them myself. I let people in now.

Muuu, I hope you don't take offense to this but, from what you have written it sounds like the fears you have are your own fears about yourself. What I mean by that is you see people as not really accepting you as a woman, and always seeing you as a man. This is despite the fact that they don't use male pronouns, and want to use a female name. I think the person who really does not accept you is you. I strongly suggest you discuss these feelings with a mental health professional. Just be completely honest with them, and they can help.

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Would you mind telling us where you live muuu?

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Muuu,

  I'm curious, Muuu as in Muumins or Muumi?  I learned about these characters during a cell phone repair class at the Nokia USA headquarters in 1998.  A part in one of the schematics had MUUMI on it as a microprocessor name and was told that it was also a cartoon character in Finland where Nokia is based. 
  I hope for the better for you with your relatives this Christmas. 

  Joelene

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  Thanks for the info.  Just hope and have a merry Christmas with your relatives. 

  Joelene

I'm Sorry, but you say your family accepts you, wants you around, and that you even think they see you as the girl you really are. I'm not trying to offend, but it seems like you're still passing judgement onto them for your childhood, which unless you left some horrible things out, doesn't sound that bad.

Instead of focusing on the fact that you couldn't grow your hair long when you were a kid, focus on the fact that you have a family that loves and wants you. Transition isn't easy. You'll appreciate their presence eventually.

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How would you know if you don't communicate it to them? Can you be sure that they do not and will not if you refuse to see them and talk to them? How can they they know if you are not the one to do so? They can't grasp it without us talking to them,and they have no idea what's inside of us. Part of them seeing you as you are is having to let them in. But you will never know unless you take that first step. They may surprise you. Is it risky? Of course. But if they can try to understand,they could be your best support. It doesn't mean they will.

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Honestly, I feel sorry for your family because they obviously love you, they're trying for you, but you are still distancing yourself from them because of your own insecurities. I couldn't imagine being in their shoes. It's almost like you don't want to give them a chance because "they know!!!" I'd almost be insulted if I were in their shoes, to be honest.

Also, I truly believe that you need psychiatric / medical help. Your self esteem is rock bottom and you are conjuring reasons to keep it there, which is very unhealthy for a comfortable life (obviously). It's also going to be a detriment to you passing. I highly suggest you find a way to see a psych, no matter if you have to drive 3 hours to see them. You probably need medication, seriously (and I don't normally say that to people). Talking to anybody on this forum is not going to help you, because it seems like every response you get from us, you are finding reasons to down yourself or your life in general.

I'm not trying to come down on you or argue with you. Please don't take it that way. I do care. I care about all of our well-being. I'll be here to support you to the very end but only if you try to be positive at times. But from my eyes, it is purely pathological and can only be helped with medication.

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Quote from: muuu on December 06, 2012, 08:59:55 AM
What is there to talk about?
That I'm not sure what they really think of me? Whatever they say about that won't change anything, unless it's them agreeing that they don't accept me. They might also be offended that I don't think they accept me, though I guess that at least gets things moving.

If you never open the lines of communication then you'll never give them a chance to prove you wrong. If this is bothering you so much you need to get in there get into their head and have everyone speak open and honestly about their feelings.  You may be surprised, but then you will know the problem is with you and not them. But if you find out they really don't accept you and think your pathetic, then this is also good because then you have reason to move on and forget them. 

I know I'm wasting my time telling you this though because your going to make an excuse.

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... And I guess, how do I know if they aren't lying out of pity?

You don't.  And you never will.  You never get to know what's deep in someone else's heart, if that's what your asking.  So you just have to find a place to be content with no knowing, and just carry on, trusting your instincts. 

You ask. "I'd like to know what you really think about X. I get the impression you're not fully honest with me to spare my feelings."

Things are rarely as complicated as you figure. And people are often not as evil as tekla describes them. Especially your family. But that doesn't apply to work. Employers are mean.

I'm not saying that people are evil (at least not in this thread), I'm just saying that no person ever knows what is in another person's heart.  Or what their motivations might be.  Could be they like you and want to spare your feelings, or that they are just humoring you or outright lying to you (OK, those might be evil), or that they are just not up to a fight or argument, or they just don't care and say the easy thing to get out of it, or that they don't want to take the heat for 'having the wrong opinion or idea' (and there is a lot of that, I'm sure - despite the notion that the arts and entertainment are so very liberal - that there are just as many racists in Hollywood as in any other population, it's just that they know if they said that stuff out loud they'd be out of a job, so they don't).

So that...there are just some things you don't ever get to know and you have to find a way to be content and at peace with not knowing.

Muuu, I think what A says is correct.  You just have to go in with total honesty and tell them how you feel and ask that they respect you enough to be honest about their feelings with you. Tell them you want complete honesty. Its not easy and you will need to take the first step.

As I look through this thread the mixed array of answers show how complicated dealing with parents can be for some people.  That makes me sad because I know how much my parents mean to me.  I know as a parent myself that my children are the most important thing in the world to me.  I was watching Lana Wachowski's HRC video the other day and what she said was right, getting good parents is like winning the lottery.  So Muuu I don't know you or your family or how you really feel but if they really are good parents then I think you owe them and yourself a chance to maintain that bond.  This is just my opinion though.

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My advice to you, Muuu, is that regardless of what you decide for this Christmas, just don't slam any doors shut that don't have to be slammed. Someday you may change your mind and want to see them again. If that is not this year or next, ok! Just leave the door open. Time can change things.