Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Pope Benedict XVI Exposes the Profound Falsehood of the Philosophy of the Gender Identity Movement

    By Deacon Keith Fournier
    12/22/2012
    Catholic Online

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=49036 (http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=49036)

In an insightful address to the Roman Curia on Thursday, December 21, 2012, Pope Benedict XVI addressed the inherent falsity and social danger of what is being called

The Gender Identity or Gender Expression Movement seeks the recognition in the positive law of a right to choose one's gender and laws which accommodate, fund, and enforce such a new "right". Those involved in the activist wing of the movement seek to compel the rest of society to recognize their vision of a brave new world or face the Police Power of the State. The Pope is absolutely correct, "the profound falsehood of this theory and of the anthropological revolution contained within it is obvious."

VATICAN CITY (Catholic Online) - In an insightful address to the Roman Curia on Thursday, December 21, 2012, Pope Benedict XVI addressed the inherent falsity and social danger of what is being called "gender theory" in many circles these days. The following excerpt from his address sets the context for considering what is being called the gender identity or gender expression movement:

[...]

"The profound falsehood of this theory and of the anthropological revolution contained within it is obvious. People dispute the idea that they have a nature, given by their bodily identity, which serves as a defining element of the human being. They deny their nature and decide that it is not something previously given to them, but that they make it for themselves. According to the biblical creation account, being created by God as male and female pertains to the essence of the human creature. This duality is an essential aspect of what being human is all about, as ordained by God."

This man is a terrorist.

Quote from: Alex_K on December 22, 2012, 11:10:02 AM
This man is a terrorist.

And if anything a criminal for his involvement in the covering up of the crimes committed by the church in attempt to evade the consequences of their employees clergy sex crimes through transferring offenders to evade justice and using sovereignty to avoid civil lawsuits.

These are the same people who at some point sponsored the following:


The forced conversion of Jew and Muslims or else death
The stoning of adulterous or allegedly-adulterous women
that people suffering from seizures were possessed by the devil
that only white man had a soul
that slavery was ok,
that earth was flat

should I continue

  Like I tell my family and friends: "I would not trust any celebate males to tell me or anybody how to run families or my life.  This from whom that was and still is celebate for all of his/her life!"  Pointing at myself during the second sentence.   >:(

  Joelene

According to the comments ive fallen into league with Satan. Based on my experience, that doesn't bother me. Compared to the way the Bible and these nut jobs portray God, Satan seems like quite a guy.

Hail Satan!

It is an interesting concept, but I cannot follow his logic.

Surely his comments suggest that people should live in whatever condition they are born into as that is gods will.

Yet we strive to help people who are born with any form of disorder and indeed treat people throughout life to alleviate their disease, be it a congenital problem or an acquired one.

Yet we destroy gods creations with antibiotics and antiviral treatments. We have destroyed gods creation of smallpox and seek to destroy other creatures of gods creation including polio.

We even protect people from allowing gods creations to multiply by vaccination.

I think the pope has been smoking funny ciggies and drinking too many glasses of the  creme de menthe again. - I reckon that is why they carry him around in a chair.

Quote from: Svelte Cindy James on December 27, 2012, 12:47:35 AM

I reckon that is why they carry him around in a chair.

;D Thanks for the laugh!

-Ani

I don't believe in God thus I see no reason to follow any logic that makes a claim about God or what God intends. I don't care for the intentions of non existent things.

Quote from: peky on December 22, 2012, 07:22:27 PM
These are the same people who at some point sponsored the following:


The forced conversion of Jew and Muslims or else death
The stoning of adulterous or allegedly-adulterous women
that people suffering from seizures were possessed by the devil
that only white man had a soul
that slavery was ok,
that earth was flat

should I continue

I will!

-The crusades and the children's crusades where they sent poor people and children to fight and get slaughtered under the belief that they would immediately go to heaven.

-The rape of altar boys by various priests in the church; and the subsequent coverup and hiding of the rapists.

-The pope is infallible in what he says...excluding when he says one of his previous statements are false.

-The taking away of purgatory, and the reaction of the mothers who had lost their children. (They thought their babies were in hell!!)

-The idea that any mental disorder is caused by demons and that they should immediately "exorcise" the person. They do this by hypnotizing them into believing that they are possessed and then putting on a show.

-Hiding and burning thousands of potentially useful books.

-Killing Galileo; this should have been apologized for to the public and appointed a Galileo day. (Perhaps in remembrance that the church shouldn't do rash and stupid things)

I don't hate religion, I don't hate Christianity, I just think that the Catholic Church is a massive cult dictated by man with a silly hat and dress.

-Skye

Quote
Male priests dispute the idea that they have a nature, given by their bodily identity, which serves as a defining element of the human male. They deny their nature and decide that it is not something previously given to them, but that they make it for themselves. According to the biblical creation account, being created by God as male pertains to the essence of the human male. Reproduction of the male is ordained by the bible."

Quote from: Zythyra on December 22, 2012, 10:17:08 AM
According to the biblical creation account, being created by God as male and female pertains to the essence of the human creature.

He needs to reread Genesis. He didn't create male and female. He created man and woman. Male and female genders are man made concepts.

I just pictured a transexual Jesus nailed to a cross. Am I going to hell?

Geriatric Nazi in a dress doesn't like us! Like I give a rat's what he says or thinks

I'm staying atheist in 3... 2... 1...

so this man has the idea that GID is a falsehood despite all the experts who acknowledge that it is very true.  This pathetic old man should research or ask what it is like to be Born This Way, or I guess it is better that I as a catholic should have been better at commiting suicide as a teen, but then i was damned for that.  Oh and as alterboy who was molested by a priest who liked boys, according to the church the boys asked for it, so again i was damned.  THE HELL WITH THEM ALL.

Mindy,

  We're damned if we are transitioning and damned if we try to return to our birth sex according to his logic.  I'm already getting that counter current!

  Joelene

I understand that some may not want to take his attitude seriously, but if you do have someone like this who you would like to reason with, I think the strongest argument derives from Harry Benjamin's hypothesis that the trans condition is best understood as "neurological intersexed".

The point is that even the Pope would not disallow GRS for an intersexed person, but he has ignored that my trans condition is not a psychological or behavioral condition, but a neurological condition that is just as much an intersexed condition as a genital intersexed person.

In other words, the structures in my brain and the structures in my genitals (and chromosomes) are mismatched. We are not remotely able to modify the brain structures to match the body, but we can modify the body structures to match the brain structures.

We routinely correct other body structures which are in some way dysfunctional, the fact that he cannot see the brain structures that are mismatched with the body do not make them any less real. He cannot see the brain structure that makes a child left handed either, but we all now accept that left handedness is centered in brain structures which cannot reasonably be changed. (though at one time left handedness was considered evil and children were forced to try to learn to be right handed)

Within the Pope's theological worldview, this world is "fallen" and not as God designed it. Disease, deformities, and all sorts of things were not by God's design, but a result of the fall. Medicine routinely tries to restore this "brokenness" as much as possible to more closely match the ideal state of creation. GRS is simply the best that can be done to correct this neurological intersexed condition.

Whether you personally agree with this worldview, many of the people in our world do, and it doesn't hurt to consider how you might best reach them on their terms, if you should choose to try.

I have used this with some success with a number of very conservative Christians, but have not had the occasion to speak with the Pope as yet.   ;D

Quote from: HthrRsln on December 31, 2012, 03:26:42 AM
I understand that some may not want to take his attitude seriously, but if you do have someone like this who you would like to reason with, I think the strongest argument derives from Harry Benjamin's hypothesis that the trans condition is best understood as "neurological intersexed".

I agree with your logic as a strategy, Heather, but as a practical matter, Catholic policy on many areas of reproductive health have also flown in the face of what medicine is able to do to alleviate suffering. There's a certain perverse logic and consistency to some of these positions, even though they wind up endorsing some tremendously cruel positions for those who consider the Pope an authority on such matters.  At this point I think it winds up being the religion that is undercutting its own authority and moral say-so, at least in the long run.

There is also some point to be made that a just way of dealing with those who are neurologically intersexed (this seems to be a position that some religions are moving more and more to accept) would be to change social practices across the board, and put off making gender assignments until some time in early childhood, as other cultures without the medical technology have managed to do over the centuries. This is increasingly the practice that's becoming more accepted when dealing with those whose genitalia and other sex characteristics get them labelled intersexed in other ways besides those whose intersex condition is primarily neurological, after years and years of studies showing that assigning gender at random really does a lot of harm in those cases where the wrong guess was made by some arrogant schmuck with a medical degree.

It's my belief, at least, that no one should be assigned a gender until they reach an age where they can declare their own, and that the decision not be made hastily or under duress.

Quote from: Elspeth on January 05, 2013, 10:20:56 AM
It's my belief, at least, that no one should be assigned a gender until they reach an age where they can declare their own, and that the decision not be made hastily or under duress.

It's been a very very long time since I've heard a modicum of intellectual intelligence to this level. Where have you been hiding, Elspeth?

Gender is far more complex than what's between your legs. I believe this philosophy needs to become a major discussion point within the medical hierarchy.

Quote from: Elspeth on January 05, 2013, 10:20:56 AM
lot of harm in those cases where the wrong guess was made by some arrogant schmuck with a medical degree

And he/she doesn't even have to be an arrogant schmuck. After all, during the delivery process it only takes less than a quick visual second to see what's between your legs and you are saddled for life with what was seen, irrespective of what's between your ears.

I can just see if you were born with two heads.  The theatre talk may sound something like this.
Yeah. It's twins. Next please.

Huggs
Catherine

Quote from: Catherine Sarah on January 05, 2013, 10:44:29 AM
It's been a very very long time since I've heard a modicum of intellectual intelligence to this level. Where have you been hiding, Elspeth?

I will take a tiny bit of credit here, I invited Elspeth to join here after we had met on another forum and found we had a lot in common, and subsequently I found I preferred the atmosphere on this forum to the one we had met at.

And I agree with you on Elspeth's post. I frequently agree with Elspeth, except when she's being hard on herself about one thing or another.  ;)

As for the religion discussion, I have no illusions about persuading the Pope or church hierarchy any time soon, but these discussions can be very different with individual believers, and sometimes quite successful when they get some accurate understanding of what trans is all about. Many Christians get hung up on the fallacy that "God created you and God doesn't make mistakes..." or something along those lines, ignoring that their own theology teaches that this is a fallen world and not the world of original creation that God designed. They know this perfectly well when it comes to things like disease and evil in the world, so it's simply a matter of using their own beliefs to remind them of this. I am convinced that the attitudes towards MTF trans in particular come from deep-seated culturally-based sexual guilt and prejudice, and religion is fallaciously used to attack it.

Cheers!

Quote from: HthrRsln on January 05, 2013, 06:57:12 PM
I will take a tiny bit of credit here, I invited Elspeth to join here after we had met on another forum and found we had a lot in common, and subsequently I found I preferred the atmosphere on this forum to the one we had met at.

And I agree with you on Elspeth's post. I frequently agree with Elspeth, except when she's being hard on herself about one thing or another.  ;)

Thank you Heather. ;) FWIW, I think I probably have an inactive account here buried back somewhere a few years ago, or longer. I couldn't remember the name I was using then, or which of a half dozen no longer active email accounts I might have used back then.

I've been putting myself more or less on hold for the last 10 years, after divorce and separation more or less shattered my confidence in my own voice and opinions. My son's struggles in coming out to himself are part of what has lately had me thinking that I wasn't so wrong after all, and also that I just need to start living my life again, at least whatever's left of it, and do it on my terms, rather than allow well-meaning others to engage in pointless negotiations.

I expect to report back sometime in the next few days, after I've met with his therapist, and maybe move a bit closer to taking some necessary actions for my own benefit. Time to get to bed now, it's about an hour and a half's drive in each direction... hopefully I'll be finding a referral (or working out a way to do sessions via Skype) if I wind up wanting to work with the same therapist as my son.

The church cares more about what goes on in the lives of people rather than helping the poor. They have great power and influence yet they do nothing to promote good change to help those who need it. Rather these hypocrites sit on their golden thrones more worried about their public image and our pants rather than the needy, I dont think Jesus would be proud of his church.

Quote from: JuliaVB on January 09, 2013, 08:54:34 AM
The church cares more about what goes on in the lives of people rather than helping the poor. They have great power and influence yet they do nothing to promote good change to help those who need it. Rather these hypocrites sit on their golden thrones more worried about their public image and our pants rather than the needy, I dont think Jesus would be proud of his church.

That is undoubtedly accurate for some churches, but it is also true that many Christian churches and charities, and the broader Christian community do a great deal to help people in need. The Christian community taken as a group is one of the single most charitable groups in the world. Read the book "Who Really Cares" by Arthur Brooks.

It is true that the Christian community has many faults and is far from perfect. One of their greatest faults is their failure - in many cases, but not all - to understand transgender issues and treat those affected with the love and compassion they deserve.

Quote from: HthrRsln on January 09, 2013, 11:42:39 AM
That is undoubtedly accurate for some churches, but it is also true that many Christian churches and charities, and the broader Christian community do a great deal to help people in need. The Christian community taken as a group is one of the single most charitable groups in the world. Read the book "Who Really Cares" by Arthur Brooks.

It is true that the Christian community has many faults and is far from perfect. One of their greatest faults is their failure - in many cases, but not all - to understand transgender issues and treat those affected with the love and compassion they deserve.

yeah, they go to some very poor third-world country where in order to get the 'cookies" they bring with, you first have to listen to the "Good News"

I have personally have seen the the disappearance of 1/3 of an Amazonian Indian tribe succumb to alcoholism and prostitution after they were "converted and civilized." The 2/3 of the tribe that back then decided not to become "civilized" are doing just fine and still living off the land like their ancestors, they have not lost their identity, culture or language.

My example above is but one of many...

Quote from: peky on January 09, 2013, 11:57:13 AM
yeah, they go to some very poor third-world country where in order to get the 'cookies" they bring with, you first have to listen to the "Good News"

I have personally have seen the the disappearance of 1/3 of an Amazonian Indian tribe succumb to alcoholism and prostitution after they were "converted and civilized." The 2/3 of the tribe that back then decided not to become "civilized" are doing just fine and still living off the land like their ancestors, they have not lost their identity, culture or language.

My example above is but one of many...

I must agree with Peky, I have seen similar things happen in less developed African countries. In fact you can thank oil companies for most of the proper assistance.