Susan's Place Transgender Resources

So, is it just me, or do men not like eye contact with other men? I've always been a pretty 'eye-contact heavy' person. (Mother taught me it was respectful to always look someone in the eye when you're talking to them.) I have no problem maintaining eye contact with women. They're totally cool with it and respond well to it. But trying to keep eye contact with other men is like herding cats! I would have to start grabbing faces if I wanted some eye-to-eye!

What is causing this? Is it just another 'guy' thing I haven't picked up on? Is it uncommon for men to look other men in the eye for a conversation? I've seen a few guys get a bit uncomfortable, do the dodgy eye thing where they look everywhere but right at me. I don't have a problem with older gents (50 and up), they seem comfortable and polite. But the 28-45ish range get all shifty and uncomfortable. And the 25-somethings try and stare me down! And when they can't they get all huffy ::) Did I miss a memo? Should I quit? Am I involving myself in a weiner size contest unwittingly or something? I'm not trying to intimidate, I'm just being polite! >:(

Most guys don't have a problem. My guess is there is something about you that is making them feel uneasy that they don't want to address or the context of the situation does not warrant that they give you enough attention to even look at you. It's really hard to tell.

I guess I should specify, this is mostly at work. I work retail at an auto-parts store, where I have to interact with lots and lots of (mostly) clueless men... Maybe it's because they don't want me to know they can't tell the difference between a brake rotor and an ignition rotor? ;>.<

Well, I'd have to ask about your presentation. Are you perceived by others as a guy and are you perceived as a masculine and hetero male? Sorry for the blunt questions but it's important to your question.

I would say it's because they don't know you, or because they feel inadequate when admitting that they know nothing about cars (guys are sometimes shamed when they don't).  :(

I can say that from experience. I ride a bike for crying out loud!  >:(

Living as female right now... don't have any problem with guys of all ages looking me in the eyes. I agree with Jess, they're probably uncomfortable about something. If they read you as female, they might feel unmanly seeking advice on cars that stereotypically they should know all about and you shouldn't.

But, I can look you square in the eyes and say "what's the difference?"  ???

Definitely hetero male and masculine, but I am fairly small. Not short, just skinny haha! I don't have terribly feminine features, I know I have a touch still, but I'm never ma'am'ed in person or on the phone. I'm not loud or aggressive, I'm pretty laid-back.

I've always found looking deep into another man's eyes kinda strange. Usually when I talk to another guy we're standing beside of each other and not face to face. If I have to be face to face I look at the bridge of the nose. Yet with a female I'm the exact opposite. Don't know why...that's just how it is.

If you are are perceived as female, there is a good chance that the guy is in a hurry and is annoyed that he got stuck with the "girl" at the auto parts counter. In my life of pretending to be a guy, I have been in many part stores for many parts and found the 9 out of 10 times the females behind the counter had to get one of the guys involved if I had a question.

It's not fair to YOU but most guys that are in and out of part stores  will have that view. On the flip-side, it doesn't take long to realize that someone is competent and the guys will respect you if you know as much as the other guys in the shop. 

Guys don't stare into each others eyes, its like a challenge or something. In fact staring into a guys eyes is a good way to get into a fight.

Not sure about this but in my experience woman to woman and men to woman tend to look into each others eyes. Guys tend to drift around, otherwise it is getting personal and intense. Just look at boxers and cage fighters.

Never ever make eye contact on the street, that is asking for something

I feel like on average, men do eye contact less than women, depending on the setting.
For me, it feels like in casual settings, they'll just like casually glance away,
But in bussinessy settings....any kind of store they'll just "O_____O" STARE AT YOU...
'Course....this could be due to my limited interaction with men.
I'm not sure.
But people are people, and people are strange.
I know it goes against how you were raised, but if you feel like you're making someone uncomfortable,
Just lighten up on the eye to eye a little?

OH yes business is business. Different place different rules. Totally.

scientific studies show that women use eye contact more than men. So it migght be uncomfortable for him. Also, looking directly into someone's eyes for more that 10 seconds is often disconcerting. I think the way you are percieved is also important here.
If you are percieved as female, he might think youre interested
if youre perceived as a gay male, he might think you are interested and be irritated by it
if you are percieved as a straight male, he might think he has something dangling from his nose or teeth.

Lastly, he might just not be interested in the conversation, or maybe he feels like you are trying to make him feel stupid?

i'm like upposite I don't really look people in the eyes, I generally prefern not to. I do it at times but it manly just to seam "polite" as some people gets annoyed if you don't.

Eye contact is pretty wierd, for some cultures/places, its obvious you MUST look people in the eyes and its rude/abnormal not to do that, at other places it can be rude/threatning to look people in the eyes.
--
I was raised that I should look people more in the eyes, My mom have commented on me that she been annoyed if I look away and speak to her, also I learn that its "less normal" and seams rude, so for meeting and such things I tend to keep eye contact once in a while.

When I at the buss its opposite. looking at others in the eyes is generally considered rude, and if you catch the glimse of a stranger you or the person will generally look away very fast, yet there is a hook up sign if a stranger can look at each other for 10 min and smile then there interest.

at my old school we also had alot of imigrents from lithuania, and by there culture your never to look people in the eyes or smile to people you dont know. if you smile to a stranger your making a fool out of yourself and if you look at someone then your asking for trouble.

theres really a ton of diffrent ways. I think eyes are very sensetive, the reason I dont like to look people in the eyes is because I mainly feel it to be pretty personal, like i get to know people too well or they get to know me too well. I also dont want to send out the wrong kinds of signals.
---
I have no idea where your from or how you look, but maybe you can see around what kind of eye contact people generally do in your area, what types of people you are having in, and ask a couple of people how you look.
I think its more or less imposible to get a usefull answer from the internet on how a person look at another one.

Reading all of these comments leads me to believe that we are nothing more than highly intelligent animals. We still have animalistic traits. Big cats, wolves, etc don't stare into each others eyes for the same reason (it is perceived as a threat).

Next time Biscuit_Stix just stare and growl. Let us know how that goes, lol.  :laugh:

Simon, from a purely biological definition, humans are animals. As for intelligent... that's a completely different question.

Quote from: DianaP on December 29, 2012, 12:29:39 PM
Simon, from a purely biological definition, humans are animals. As for intelligent... that's a completely different question.

That was a statement of intelligence and not posed as a question...so speak for yourself, Diana.  ;)

It's a figure of speech. Maybe you should look me in the eye before making sarcastic, caustic remarks.  :P

(Sorry, I couldn't resist)

I tried to explain this before but got roasted for saying it but here it is again.

Guys do not look at other guys in the eyes. They might glance and nod but direct eye contact is mainly reserved for talking to women. Hetero guys see this as another guy coming onto them ot being agressive. If you try to make eye contact with guys walking down the street (as a guy) it will seem to most of them weird behavior. Women on the other hand do make eye contact with other women and smile. They make eye contact when taking to other women as well. And as another poster said direct eye contact between guys is an animal type thing to show aggression or you are very serious. When I was living as a guy, the only time guys would do this was when they were REALLY pissed off and were generally yelling at me while they did it.

In a casual conversation with a hetero male, its usually us standing next to each other with our hands in our pockets looking down or just glancing around. I have noticed though, in a casual conversation with some of my gay male friends, they will look me directly in the eyes.

Im not sure about work though, I never payed attention to that, if im dealing with a customer its most likely over the phone, or im looking at the register.

I've constantly been scolded by my mother to look people in the eye when having a conversation, but it just feels creepy to prolong that past a glance IMO. It kind of does feel like a challenge to look right at another guy- I feel like someone's questioning something about me if they do that, especially if they're staring you down (or trying to). That's pretty much a textbook dominating move, and I don't stand for that kind of stuff. Nor do I like doing it to other people, no matter how pretty a face they may have.  :laugh:
(Sometimes I stare at girls a bit too much when talking to them, but I try extra hard not to now because I have a boyfriend XP)

Then there's Pokemon Trainers: Boy or girl, if you look them in the eye, you know something's gonna go down  :P

And there you have it, two shiny pennies deposited in the box.

Yeah... after I got a job, I tried the eye contact thing because I'm just all-around kind of socially inept. I figured eye contact was what people expected from each other, regardless of gender. Imagine my surprise then, when every time I tried to look certain male coworkers in the eye, they would ask me "What the f$%^ are you staring at?!" I used to get scolded by my mom for not making eye contact with anyone either, but it's so much more natural to talk to a guy while standing side-to-side with minimal eye contact.

I tended to avoid eye contact for a long time, the consequence of abuse...

Then I had a friend tell me it's an important part of persuasion. There are times you need to appear sincere (sales, politics, marriage, etc) and those are times to do eye contact. But if you're talking casually, like about a game or what restaurant to go to...lessen the frequency/intensity of the contact.

The only person I can ever make eye contact with is my girlfriend, and sometimes I can't even manage that.  Someone -- I think it was a previous partner, I can't really remember -- tried to make me make eye contact with them, but my eyes just kept sliding away, it's just not natural to me.  Quite often I've been told to make eye contact with people, normally when I was getting told of by pedantic crazy teachers a few years ago, but it just seemed way too personal to do.

It's either a challenge, or intimate to me, and I'd not want to do either of those things to a random person, or even a good friend.

Quote from: Alex000000 on December 30, 2012, 07:05:33 PMSomeone -- I think it was a previous partner, I can't really remember -- tried to make me make eye contact with them, but my eyes just kept sliding away, it's just not natural to me.  Quite often I've been told to make eye contact with people, normally when I was getting told of by pedantic crazy teachers a few years ago, but it just seemed way too personal to do.

This is exactly how I used to feel about eye contact -- it felt really rude to just look someone in the eye for more than a split second. I trained myself to do it "normally", though, and now it's second nature for me to look someone in the eyes -- I feel rude for not making eye contact, now.

I hadn't considered that my original habit was just masculine and not anti-social. Damn. Now I have to retrain myself again. :p

Quote from: Alex000000 on December 30, 2012, 07:05:33 PM
Someone -- I think it was a previous partner, I can't really remember -- tried to make me make eye contact with them, but my eyes just kept sliding away, it's just not natural to me.

Haha that reminds me of a previous partner asking me if we could just sit and gaze into each other's eyes. I don't know if I could ever do that with anybody.

Personally I don't like it for whatever reason and I don't see what purpose it serves. I know a couple of guys who see it as a challenge and going back a few years they would happily take it to the next level. I don't like being stared down but these days I mostly just ignore it, I've got nothing to prove. This will probably be more of a problem with younger guys or maybe someone who's having a bad day and is looking for someone to beat up on. There are plenty of signs that will alert you to a good or bad potential situation, body language, facial expression, where you are, etc, etc. If you keep insisting on looking guys in the eye be prepared that sooner or later it will probably result in a negative experience. We humans aren't very nice me thinks.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on December 30, 2012, 02:45:18 PM
I tended to avoid eye contact for a long time, the consequence of abuse...

Then I had a friend tell me it's an important part of persuasion. There are times you need to appear sincere (sales, politics, marriage, etc) and those are times to do eye contact. But if you're talking casually, like about a game or what restaurant to go to...lessen the frequency/intensity of the contact.

This.

Right after transition, I got a job in sales and was disconcerted by all the eye contact as they were training us. They didn't explain about the eye contact and even as someone new to living as male it felt odd to me. Unfortunately, I didn't know at the time it was what we were supposed to do to show sincerity. I thought these guys were challenging me or looking down on me. They were just trying to teach me to close.  :laugh:

I hate eye contact, maybe I'll get along better with guys?

Jay

OP - From my understanding of your situation, I would say that constant eye contact on your part is a dominant stance. When two hetero males are talking, the one who is dominant will not break eye contact. By the other man breaking eye contact he is stating that he recognizes you as the dominant one in the interaction. I would take it as a compliment.

In my experience, when a guy passes another guy on the street they'll make eye contact for about a second, nod, then look away.  I found it a little intimidating at first, for some reason.

I make direct eye contact with other guys all the time. Friends, students, strangers. Holding it for any length of time is another matter. That I don't do, and I have never done that. I have known a number of socially disastrous people (all guys except one, and all computer science nerds, physics geeks, or other STEM types) who would just have a whole conversation looking people straight in the eye--they would home in and not let go. I suppose that's one reason other folks avoided them. Maybe in blue collar circles, this would have been a problem. At the university, they seemed to be accepted as simply eccentric.

Maintaining eye contact throughout an entire conversation feels very creepy and unnatural to me.  I dislike when others do it to me, and I don't feel at all comfortable doing it.  That being said I tend to go in/out of eye contact as opposed to never making it at all.  Gender of my conversation partner does not really play any part in the equation

Quote from: Sly on January 01, 2013, 03:27:01 PM
In my experience, when a guy passes another guy on the street they'll make eye contact for about a second, nod, then look away.  I found it a little intimidating at first, for some reason.

I actually read about this one in the book "just add hormones". He calls it the guy nod and said he never got this when he appeared female. I agree. I have gotten this several times and consider it a sign of passing. Funny thing but Ive gotten it a couple times and as I got closer the guy decides he has made a mistake and I almost hear the wheels going saying something like " hey I just gave a guy nod to a gal" (nope).

Jay

 The guy nod is a very real thing. Most guys won't bother looking into the eyes of other guys when passing on the street or other such scenarios, but if they do, the nod is to be respectful and polite.

Kind of romantic, in a way. I always associate it with Jedi, because when I was young and read Star Wars books, the Jedi did that sort of thing when bowing would be a little too formal. I tried the bowing thing for a while, but that didn't last very long. The nod was the easier and less goofy option.

My opinion most men don't do eye to eye because they aren't secure in it and are scared to be seen as homosexual. However this applies more to my area which is a very Catholic area that are completely anti-homosexual. But hey its possible a few of them felt like this haha.