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i think my parents are at the verge of finding out by themselves. should i tell them before or after?

Quote from: milktea on January 04, 2013, 10:55:14 AM
i think my parents are at the verge of finding out by themselves. should i tell them before or after?

Nice name reminds of a pretty good gender bender manga i read a few years back.

Well first let me ask what do your parents think on the whole I am a girl not the boy you brought thing?

I mean if they accepted you completely why not tell them before.

However if they rejected you then lets not forget that almight saying "It is better to ask for forgiveness then permission" after all once it done all they can do is accept it!

Sincerly Zoey

Quote from: milktea on January 04, 2013, 10:55:14 AM
i think my parents are at the verge of finding out by themselves. should i tell them before or after?

I would tend to think, without knowing more about your relationship with them, that you probably owe them at least a prior announcement. If they are not at peace with your decision, giving them a chance to act offended that you hid it from them is likely to be something they'll use against you for a long time.

If you fear they might try to sabotage it in some way, it might be best to notify them by letter or some other less direct means.  I know that I plan to keep them as informed as I can, once I get to that point. In many ways they already are informed, but I want to be sure they don't interpret my reticence as being ashamed of my choices or decisions.

I think letting them kno beforehand is a good idea. Even if the parent dissaproves they still have a daughter they love very much and surgery is a time where many rifts can be mended

I would tell those I love that I'm going in for major surgery - which it is.  If something adverse were to happen to you I'm sure they'd rather know before than find out afterwards - and it will make reaching out to them easier if you need to do that.

But as others said, it depends on your relationship with them.

Well theres one more thing and it is that it never hurts to have support for you when your in recovery from surgery, be it something simple like a pole through your lip or SRS comfort from company always helps.

So maybe having them with you or just texting you will help you through it.

I told mine before. the support was much needed. I cried on and off the first 2 week

tks! so most are supporting an announcement pre-surgery.

the weird thing is that i don't mind them finding things out, but feel that it is unnecessary to make them worry by telling proactively. somehow i cannot see any benefit for someone to wait by the corridor while i'm out...perhaps i'm really getting out of touch with my allocortex...

just fyi my folks understand me very well and we have great relations.

I tend to think the answer is rather obvious.

Put yourself in their position.  How would you feel if one of your offspring rang home and said, "Guess what I've just done?"

Hope you attain peace with whatever decision you make.

Huggs
Catherine

Quote from: milktea on January 05, 2013, 08:36:47 AM
tks! so most are supporting an announcement pre-surgery.

the weird thing is that i don't mind them finding things out, but feel that it is unnecessary to make them worry by telling proactively. somehow i cannot see any benefit for someone to wait by the corridor while i'm out...perhaps i'm really getting out of touch with my allocortex...

just fyi my folks understand me very well and we have great relations.

If thats the case tell them !! I mean its the well hey I am about to your daughter 100% aint it great!

Quote from: milktea on January 05, 2013, 08:36:47 AM
tks! so most are supporting an announcement pre-surgery.

the weird thing is that i don't mind them finding things out, but feel that it is unnecessary to make them worry by telling proactively. somehow i cannot see any benefit for someone to wait by the corridor while i'm out...perhaps i'm really getting out of touch with my allocortex...

just fyi my folks understand me very well and we have great relations.

If you don't tell them beforehand, those relations could become very strained. Most parents want to know when something major is going to happen in someone's life, especially something like a surgery.

would they comprehend the logic that telling them beforehand will increase their stress without significant constructiveness in reducing the overall risks involved, and therefore there is no relative cost benefit in such an action? If they are told after the operation is concluded successfully, they can then serve practical functions in the tedious aftercare expected in the coming months post-op.

While my reasoning is sound, I am concerned that people's psychology is often not governed by logic alone, and since my emotions are so repressed by all that I've gone through, I suspect there is so little left in me to predict what a typical person will respond to this on an emotional level. Will they have preferred me telling them so that they can be subjected to the feeling of fear and absolute helplessness to influence the outcome of the operation?

Hi milktea.

And that's the primary difference between you both. You have locked up your emotions so tight, Houdini couldn't get in, and that's not good for you. Part of transition entails you learning to cope with, and understand an entirely new set of emotional cues and responses.

Yours parents are first and foremost basically emotional creatures when it comes to caring for their offspring. Logic and rationale will come much later. So YOU need to take that into major consideration in your emotionless though processes and try to perceive the hurt your parents will FEEL, if not told before hand.

Having reread your first paragraph I'm really overwhelmed at the total disconnectedness or disassociation your perceive the simple task, Love calls for, in telling those near and dear, of a major change in your life circumstances. To the point I'm worried about you.

Parenting has NO "cost benefit ratio", nor does it have "tedious aftercare functions". The love a parent should have for their son or daughter transcends ALL logic, reasoning, rationale,function, etc, etc. It's just plain and simple "move mountains" LOVE. Needs no further explanation or description.

Could I further suggest, you stop asserting your preconceptions of fear and helplessness onto people you clearly love and care for you. Nobody, none of us have the slightest idea, how another loved one will take and react to any news we have for them. It's only after they have processed there understanding and knowledge of the situation, will you ever find out how they really thought about it.

Tell them; and let them work out and process the best response they understand. And please talk to your therapist about why you have repressed your feelings. It's not normal or wholesome.

Huggs
Catherine

Quote from: Catherine Sarah on January 17, 2013, 02:45:39 AM
Parenting has NO "cost benefit ratio", nor does it have "tedious aftercare functions". The love a parent should have for their son or daughter transcends ALL logic, reasoning, rationale,function, etc, etc. It's just plain and simple "move mountains" LOVE. Needs no further explanation or description.

I'm concerned more about how this is being expressed than what seems to be at its core. Parents are going to want to know when you are doing something risky. Any major surgery involves anesthesia, which comes with some risk of death -- you'll read it in the consent form and they will make this clear to you during pre-op prep if they haven't done so already, unless the surgery is happening somewhere where informed consent is not mandated by law.

If my child didn't let me know that they were getting a major surgery, I would be pretty upset about that.

I think you need to tell them, but also tell them in more gentle terms that, perhaps, you'd really like them to be there for the aftercare, that personally, that's where you need their help and attention most. It's true they will be powerless and useless to do anything practical about the surgery... but they may want to be their for moral and spiritual support, and may feel that being their offers some unprovable form or protection against those things that they cannot truly control or protect you from.

Maybe this is how you planned to talk to them, in more emotional terms, and your post here was shorthanded for the sake of saving some typing, or to avoid dredging up whatever emotions you might be feeling going into this?

(Catherine: I hope it's clear from context, this was directed towards milktea, not yourself. I quoted you mainly because I'm in agreement, but wanted to cast this in a slightly different light).

Dear Elspeth,

There was absolutely no need to qualify your post. When I read it, I sensed immediately, all your discussion was directed to milktea, whom by now I think has already been operated on. But thank you all the same for your consideration. I appreciate it. I sense in the majority of things we sing from the same page.

Being the eternal optimist I am, I wish that all parents had a firm grip on the meaning of unconditional love. Regrettably I know of many cases where this is not so.

Huggs
Catherine

Hey cath and Elspeth your posts have been most helpful. Yes the op went well and I am now living the life of a lazy pig. I lie in a bed all day and have this magic button that gives me delicious food when pressed.

Now if only for curiosity, you have clearly understood the problem I am facing now...mild depersonalization and emotional asymbolia in clinical terms from my shrink. As he explains it, sometimes when you go through major trauma (or a series of it) the body protects itself by detecting itself from its emotions. This presents itself both in mental and physical manifestations; without my emotions being as active, the logic center takes on a greater role in governing my behavior. Depending on how you look at it, this is good news in that you will probably be making more rationale choices and receiving  less pain post-op (because although pain is felt its association with suffering which is an emotional response is dulled). The flip side is that I may find myself having little or no emotions in what's happening to me and also a harder time understanding people on an emotional level.

So all this comes down to the value of your replies, because I can no longer trust myself in giving an accurate prediction of the emotional response of my parents. Putting you in their shoes may actually yield a more acceptable result.

As cath has said, the op went well and I'm looking forward to getting out of this bed. I am also consciously aware that it would also be the time to deal with the dilators. Now I will have to put my mind on the call I will need to make next week.

Hi milktea,

Glad to hear the op went well. And as you mentioned, starts the high maintenance part of the journey. Dilation. For breakfast, lunch and dinner, so to speak.

I sincerely hope your relationship with your 'psych' is an ongoing one. It's one thing to have SRS, it's a totally different thing to be an emotionally thinking/operating woman.

Much the same thing as I can depersonalise myself and have both legs amputated tomorrow, without batting an eyelid. Yet it's a completely different thing to then live as an amputee, with all its multi level and multi faceted encumbrances.

Has your Psych warned you of post op depression? If not check with him now and be aware.

What are your expectations or envisaged outcomes of this call to your parents? Have you spoken with your Psych about it. If not, may be an idea to speak to the hospital therapist, as you'll be there a while.

Hope you achieve the outcomes you set yourself.

Huggs
Catherine

Quote from: milktea on January 18, 2013, 07:43:37 AM
As cath has said, the op went well and I'm looking forward to getting out of this bed. I am also consciously aware that it would also be the time to deal with the dilators. Now I will have to put my mind on the call I will need to make next week.

Catherine already posted better advice on post-op specifics and things to watch for than I could hope to. Glad to hear that you are aware of how the process was/is shutting you down.  Hopefully you'll share much of that with your parents. Perhaps you already have, and I hope they will be understanding about your need to shut out the emotions, at least for a time, and how that affected and may affect your judgement.

Best wishes as you continue your journey!

Tks for the suggestion. I might want to talk to a therapist when I return home (though imo there aren't many good ones around where I live and I'm not going out for a couple of months post-op).

It is weird that I kind of welcome the change going on internally...sort of like in the movie sugar punch where getting lobotomized is like a better way out than to continue suffering from the messed up life one had. So living on pure logic I can still feel the pain and the degree of it when I get hurt, just not suffer from it. Unlike a normal person whose instinct would have driven him to do a predictable action (eg withdraw his hands from the scalding kettle), I may or may not do so depending on what my logic tells me to be the best course of action. It doesn't mean I no longer have the will to live or take care of myself, but just in a very different way now. The hardcore directives are only to survive...and optimum utilisation...regardless of moral and feelings which has evolved into something I try to emulate instead of really feeling for.

Today my doctor took off my dressing and I had a look at my new junk for the first time. It is  actually not bad, but I can't feel any joy in this other than to go through the mental checklist of biological parts and assess the resources required for my aftercare.

Quote from: milktea on January 18, 2013, 08:08:54 PM
It is weird that I kind of welcome the change going on internally...sort of like in the movie sugar punch where getting lobotomized is like a better way out than to continue suffering from the messed up life one had.

I loved Sucker Punch... so does my trans son.  Most underrated and misunderstood (and badly promoted) movie in almost forever. Not sure I get that same interpretation from it... more like struggling through even the worst, most hopeless situation and coming out in any way whole (or at least without surrendering to the will of one's abusers?) is a kind of victory, even if it's one with very mixed blessings.

Anyway, I can see how you'd be thinking of it now.

QuoteToday my doctor took off my dressing and I had a look at my new junk for the first time. It is  actually not bad, but I can't feel any joy in this other than to go through the mental checklist of biological parts and assess the resources required for my aftercare.

Have to wonder how I'll feel when that time comes, assuming I make it. Not sure I ever anticipated joy or elation. More like relief at finally feeling in some way whole... something I don't expect many will ever understand, unless they've lived in my head?

Here's hoping your recovery goes well, and you find what you need.

Yup sucker punch...my bad getting the name wrong. My interpretation comes from the end after the lobotomy is done, when the doc comments that it is as if she wanted him to do it...now why would she want to sacrifice herself during the escape? My take at it is that even if she did escape, how can she live her life with all the messed up things that has happened?

I mean if it is me I will be living a life of pain to my dying day.

Now if it is just too much pain to live for, the next best option to suicide is perhaps a way to devoid yourself of emotions. Laugh, cry, jump around...but just emulated actions to facilitate communication with people around you...

And in case you are wondering...no relief either. It is like looking at a vase you ordered off eBay

Hi milktea,

The more I read your posts the more I don't understand the, what I perceive, utter abuse you have suffered. It appears to have been severe to chronic, so I can't say "I understand," because I don't. I haven't been you, to experience it.

I can say however, the level of abuse I suffered as a pre teen and teen, was consistent and persistence for a period of years. With it's obvious profound effects. One thing I will say, I know I wouldn't be the woman I am today without the persistence and gentle persuasion by my therapist to engage my issues. The past few weeks have been almost insurmountable. But I'm through it. I'm out the other side. I am the winner. No one, but no one WILL ever control me, like those creature have for so long. There is just some "cleaning up" to do with respects to some preconceived thoughts and feelings.

I haven't seen this particular movie, and even if I did, it wouldn't have an effect on me. Simply because movies elicit incorrect and some time grossly inappropriate themes, simply to sell the nonsense. I'd never gauge or attempt to live a lifestyle directed by some movie. Just my personal preference.

I will however, encourage you to do whatever is necessary to work through your issues. There IS an absolutely beautiful life out there waiting for you. If the experience of others that have been where you are now, post-op, is any indication. You should be able to experience one of the greatest experiences in anyones life. Unfortunately, the actions of others have robbed you of this. That, in itself, is a crime.

Hope you continue to recover well.

Huggs
Catherine

Quote from: Catherine Sarah on January 18, 2013, 09:11:28 PM
I haven't seen this particular movie, and even if I did, it wouldn't have an effect on me. Simply because movies elicit incorrect and some time grossly inappropriate themes, simply to sell the nonsense. I'd never gauge or attempt to live a lifestyle directed by some movie. Just my personal preference.

The movie in question is not a model for emulation. Since it's a visualization of the state of mind of someone submitted to clinical abuse of a style condoned in the 60s and earlier, and a form that the profession has at least claimed to have disowned, it is more a depiction, a way of making some internal states visible and dramatic. It was not intended to sell anything, and it did horribly in theaters because it was not soft pedalling things ... while it played off of some of the kind of misogynistic tropes that fill the present popular imagination, it was marketed to appeal to teenage boys, and yet was created in a way guaranteed to make them deeply uncomfortable at best, and feeling a sense of gender guilt if they had any empathy whatsoever.

Not every movie is selling something, though we seem to be encouraged to buy that assumption.

Just trying to fill in the blanks, within the limits of practical possibility (and therefore almost certain to fail if you haven't seen it). It made most critics deeply uncomfortable, which shows up in some fascinating ways in their reviews.

Movies are just movies....nothing more than dramatized plots to highlight some point the producer is trying to sell. The reason I mention it is to draw parallel with the idea of escapism. As horrible as it sounds, abandoning your emotions may not be as bleak a choice in certain circumstances.

had a talk with a friend today and decided to revisit this issue. the topic has strayed to me instead of my folks. my conclusion is that it is an error of judgment on my part not to disclose beforehand. i have miscalculated the level of psychological damage my parents will probably suffer after they realised that they were withheld the fact of my major operation...he has shown me some empirical evidence that seems to suggest they will perceive negative emotions greater than anxiety of my safety, such as guilt, deceit and being left out.

i suppose cath and elspeth have already correctly pointed these out. the truth is i still cannot perceive the rationale for such feelings but that must be the facts. i guess the best course of action now is to offer my apology. is there anything else i can do?

Hi milktea,

I believe an apology will go some way to mitigating this situation with your parents. You may need to be prepared for some rough "turbulence" in the initial stages.

Your friend who disclosed this empirical data, may have some idea on the probability and specific stages (if any); grief may be demonstrated by your parents. If grief, or partial grief is an outcome, at least there may be some observations of the particular stage they are up to as they process the news.

Maybe if you could preface your news with the rationale you used to "protect" them may help in deflecting some of the ensuing trauma. Ensuring they understand your perspective before you release the news. This may require a considerable lead up preparation stage, with you getting the appropriate feedback that they understand your position. It will still 'rock' them.

At least you can live in hope, parental love will overcome all, in time. Glad to hear you are recovering well, except for the boredom. That word doesn't exist in my vocabulary, fortunately.

I hope this latest revelation will help you with being able to deal with yourself as time goes by.

Huggs
Catherine