Susan's Place Transgender Resources

My friend gave me a book on natural transitioning (Natural Transitioning: an FTM alternative by Tristan and Sicily Skye in case anyone is wondering). Has anyone tried it? How did you/do you find it? In other words, does it work to a satisfactory extent?

I've never heard of anyone being truly satisfied with it.  Earlier today I read on tumblr about a guy who was taking 15+ supplement pills a day in order transition "naturally" and ended up with liver damage and no real changes, but that's not the most reliable source of evidence.  I can't find the post now unfortunately, but I'd just say to be careful and check things with your doctor if you can before you overload your body.

ive successfully transistioned and am happy with how i look, although i would like to look more masculine and be able to gain more muscle but you can only do so much when your going the natural way, no i have not taken supplements i have an intense workout system and a strict diet.

I tried to meditate my t level up, but it would take many hours every day. That soon made me stop. I did gain the ability to ignore the cold weather totally and actually have it warm, so it wasn't all for nothing. It does take some time before I can do it again, but it's still awesome.

You can always try strict dieting and intensive workouts. Or join a rugby team lol

I've never heard of anyone sticking with it and being completely satisfied with the results.
Also I don't think I would trust something written by someone named Sicily Skye...

Quote from: 757ftmlo on January 11, 2013, 09:37:02 PM
You can always try strict dieting and intensive workouts. Or join a rugby team lol

Me? Nah. I'm not sporty and it wouldn't help me at all. I have a (somewhat) male fat patten. I doubt a workout can make my face look more male or my voice for that matter.

Well I looked at some Youtube videos of people who were doing this long term. Honestly I wasn't impressed. I realize people change at different rates and all, but they looked like mostly about 5 months even after 2 years+. But the difference was they were happy with it. Most of their voices were not that low and they still looked female bodied, though with much more bulk. I think that before a certain age you can build muscle mass. Just am not convinced.


--Jay

I used to talk to Tristan and his wife Sicily back in the day. They're good people. However, natural transitioning didn't give him the results he was after. Here is his one year on testosterone video:

1 Year on T (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0BHThuzsiY#)

Unfortunately most of those supplements don't work the way you want them to in a body that is naturally estrogen based.

Ah I see. Thanks for the responses.

Since the people I've seen were happy with the results, made me think that they did not know what real T does. Or perhaps were a bit scared of transition?

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on January 12, 2013, 12:55:50 PM
Since the people I've seen were happy with the results, made me think that they did not know what real T does. Or perhaps were a bit scared of transition?

--Jay

Not to offend anyone who has chosen NT for other reasons, but this is my observation from tumblr. It seems a lot of people who choose the path of natural transition are afraid of transitioning and see NT as slower and gentler. They're often living at home and can't (often won't) move out, so they do NT so their parents don't find out but they still get changes. Or they just think the effects of T will be too much so they go for NT as a way to "ease" themselves in.

As for the efficacy, I looked into it, and into all accounts people have made - and I was thoroughly disappointed tbh. The sad truth is most bodies that were born female can't make that much T on their own, even with the aid of supplements. NT produces some changes but imo not enough to ever transition the body over to looking almost entirely male.

Quote from: Caleb. on January 12, 2013, 02:02:51 PM
Not to offend anyone who has chosen NT for other reasons, but this is my observation from tumblr. It seems a lot of people who choose the path of natural transition are afraid of transitioning and see NT as slower and gentler. They're often living at home and can't (often won't) move out, so they do NT so their parents don't find out but they still get changes. Or they just think the effects of T will be too much so they go for NT as a way to "ease" themselves in.

As for the efficacy, I looked into it, and into all accounts people have made - and I was thoroughly disappointed tbh. The sad truth is most bodies that were born female can't make that much T on their own, even with the aid of supplements. NT produces some changes but imo not enough to ever transition the body over to looking almost entirely male.

You might theoretically encourage whatever T you have naturally in your system. But I don't know how you would produce more of it.

BTW, my observations are the same as your's. When I first figured out I was trans it was more interesting to me than it is now-- I wasn't sure what I was. Now that I know who I am I want to be who I am, if you get my drift.

There may be other reasons, like you mention such as being around unsupportive family.
I have compassion for anyone having to do this.


--Jay

Quote from: Caleb. on January 12, 2013, 02:02:51 PM
It seems a lot of people who choose the path of natural transition are afraid of transitioning and see NT as slower and gentler.

I have seen people say they believe natural transitioning as a gentler form but then they are ingesting supplements that haven't been evaluated by any credible doctor or resource. I find that scarier than injecting a hormone.

I beg to differ. I'm a nt and I love it granted I do have pcos but with me being so closeted I have to watch what I do all the time...however I do love me and how I have grown

Quote from: Simon on January 12, 2013, 03:22:35 PM
I have seen people say they believe natural transitioning as a gentler form but then they are ingesting supplements that haven't been evaluated by any credible doctor or resource. I find that scarier than injecting a hormone.

Oh, so do I. I should have specified that, actually. I worked at a natural foods/health store a few years ago and one of the misconceptions that drove me nuts (of the customers, not the staff) was this notion that since it's "natural" means it's safe and you don't need a doctor's approval/supervision. My doctors always ask me if I'm taking anything, even supplements and so on. And the staff at the store I worked at always encouraged anyone to consult with a doctor (or at the very least, a naturopathic doctor) to ensure they were all right.

Quote from: 757ftmlo on January 12, 2013, 05:25:47 PM
I beg to differ. I'm a nt and I love it granted I do have pcos but with me being so closeted I have to watch what I do all the time...however I do love me and how I have grown

PCOS is a medical condition that can have undesirable issues pop up and I hope you're having it monitored. I do know how nice it was to have a natural T level. My own was in the low 300's due to a androgen producing tumor. Then after hysto it was gone...kaput. The natural T level helped me pass enough to get by for many years but even at that level I didn't have the effects that taking injections can give. I am a tad over 3 weeks on T and have muscles that are more dense, even more facial hair (soul patch finally has a few hairs coming in), and my voice is cracking.

Why am I saying this? Because there is no natural illness that produces T in a estrogen based body that is going to give anywhere near the effects that medically transitioning with T can give. I am not advocating starting hormones. I would never tell anyone you need testosterone. What I am advocating is the correct information be put out there. Yes, there are instances that one will have natural T levels but especially as you age the effects dwindle and you're at the crossroads of "do I or don't I".

I know someone with PCOS whose T level was pretty high. He actually has a beard without T. He could do natural transition and say it worked. Though I suppose if got a hysto his T would also collapse. So not sure that you can say nt actually does anything. Like I said if you had a naturally high T maybe it could free some of the body's T or something.

Also I can understand someone in a situation where they can't take T or something.

I'm just very dubious due to 1. what I have seen on youtube  2. you are still taking substances (but usually without monitoring) 3. theoretically it falls apart except in unusual situations. I'd say PCOS is an unusual situation.

--Jay

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on January 12, 2013, 11:05:04 PM
I know someone with PCOS whose T level was pretty high. He actually has a beard without T. He could do natural transition and say it worked. Though I suppose if got a hysto his T would also collapse.

I was diagnosed with PCOS when I was eleven (now they think I had the tumor since then). I started shaving at 15 and had a beard by the time I was in my early 20's (missing the soul patch but now it's growing in). Still it isn't enough T naturally to fully masculinize every feature like taking T does. If that was the case my voice wouldn't be getting deeper, lower growth, and more hair that I'm starting to see. Yes, if your friend got a hysto he would have to start medical transition as well.

The point being is someone without abnormal medical issues wouldn't get decent results naturally transitioning. Just look at a female bodybuilder and a male bodybuilder. She can work out as much as she can but she will never get the same results without T. It is not possible (yes, there may be a rare case somewhere but it's not the norm).

In case anyone is wondering...
1. My reasons for asking is because I may not be able to get on T for a long time because there isn't much here for us.
2. It is really idiotic to take supplements without consulting one's doctor. I don't understand why that isn't apparent.
As it is, I don't think I'll be spending money on supplements since the results don't sound worth it, but I will look into the nutrition and exercise part just because I need to eat healthier and exercise more anyway.

Since I'm very much into natural health in all areas, this was something I looked into (even though I'm not transitioning, I do want my body to match my mind more and I don't care if that makes me look more male to people who still have to address me as female).

What I found personally super lame about Tristan and his wife's "program" was the following:

1) He didn't get the results he wanted either and ended up doing surgery and prescription T - in other words, went against his whole "natural" thing when he didn't get what he wanted.

2) Even so - they're still selling this program. I think it's a little misleading considering he jumped ship on it and went the traditional route. I also think it's preying on guys who want so badly to look more male that they'll do anything (including jeopardizing their health by taking all these crazy supplements without consulting a medical professional). 

3) I haven't read their book but I've seen what supplements they recommend, some of which can be quite detrimental without a doctor's supervision and without medical tests being done on your levels while you're taking these supplements. Additionally, some of the recommended supplements are formulated for male-bodied people who have testicles producing testosterone anyway.

4) All that supplement stuff is super expensive and in the long run you're probably messing your body up more with all that stuff than you would be just using prescription T or T cream.

So if you can't medically transition there's still things you can do and it sounds like you're already going in that direction anyway – diet and exercise. There's plenty of female bodied athletes who are not using steroids but have what I would consider a very male-looking physique. They got that way through specific training and diet. While it's harder to maintain that when you don't have gonads that are producing mass amounts of T, it can certainly be moving you in the right direction. If and when you can medically transition you're going to be a lot farther along than a lot of guys at least in the physique department and you'll have developed a healthy eating and exercising plan that will benefit you even when you're on T.