Susan's Place Transgender Resources

A long while ago I used to watch the Jerry Springer Program, occasionally he would have good shows but most of them are trash. I know that sensationalism makes money. What I want to know is why do these transwomen and transmen go on this program? How do they justify the way they act on TV.

Why is it that even when just walking down the street or going to a support group transfolk feel the need to go over the top and act like they are in a 24 hour entertainment show. You know the exaggerated speech, the snap of the fingers, the get out of my way "bitch" attitude. To me its like a blend of a street thug gang banger mixed in with some preppy valley girl stereotype.

What is so wrong with just wanting to act like any other man or woman? Now I am totally fine with everyone having a expression or personality, it just that until the media stops portraying us like this and until some of us stop acting like this. It is not going to get better as far as how the general public sees you.

I also want nothing to do with Porn or Prostitution as that for me personally is going to degrade myself. Now I know that in the early days of transgender history, it was nearly impossible to get a job as a transsexual woman or man. So I am not judging anyone, because society creates its own problems by not giving transgender folk an opportunity to get an education and a career. Its much better now but it is still out there.

What are your thoughts?

Does anybody on Jerry Springer come off well? But I see your point, and the only reason I can think of is that the trans people you are speaking of, loud, in your face and even obnoxious, are almost by definition more likely to stand out and grab peoples attention than the everyday trans person just trying to fit in. That second group after all is doing everything in their power not to stick out like a sore thumb and attract attention, hence the first group is over represented, or not, just a thought.

well you can still stand out and have some pizzaz without having to loose your class or dignity. There are plenty of activists that do just that.

Jerry Springer is a shock jock jerk, just like Howard Stern.  Anyone who goes on that show is a willing target for his brand of bigotry.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 16, 2013, 08:42:52 PM
A long while ago I used to watch the Jerry Springer Program, occasionally he would have good shows but most of them are trash. I know that sensationalism makes money. What I want to know is why do these transwomen and transmen go on this program? How do they justify the way they act on TV.
...

What are your thoughts?

I forget where I heard it, but at some point someone suggested to me that most of those appearing on Springer's show (on any topic) are shills. Paid actors, playing fictionalized roles. I'm sure you might be able to confirm or discredit that with some digging, but really, does anyone care? I have to hope that they feel the compensation they get is worth it. Also, if some of these were not exaggerated acts done for the camera and the studio audience reactions, I would have to think that we'd have seen a lot more follow-up stories of suicides, assault charges and other crimes that would wind up on CourtTV or other media. So many of these performances, if they carried over into real life, would lead either to self-harm or some sort of criminal assault and abuse charges, following fast after some of the more drama-laden Springer catastrophes.

Don't believe everything you see, and don't take it at face value unless you get some real, hard documentation (like court records and sworn testimony).

So much of the sorrow in this world comes from taking things too literally.

If you want to dig into some of the longstanding allegations that the show is faked in ways similar to pro wrestling, a starting point would be the section on this topic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jerry_Springer_Show#Controversies_over_authenticity_and_violence) in the wikipedia article. In my opinion, the careful weasel wording of various producers and production staffers who've been asked about these matters are fairly telling.  Example:

QuoteIn an interview, a production assistant stated that "we try our hardest to screen people," and inauthentic-seeming guests have been kicked off stage.

The implication for me is that if the volunteer participants are decent actors and "seem authentic" the production staff are NOT going to kick them off... only being an obvious fake is a reason for ejection. But that's my reading.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 16, 2013, 08:42:52 PM
A long while ago I used to watch the Jerry Springer Program, occasionally he would have good shows but most of them are trash. I know that sensationalism makes money. What I want to know is why do these transwomen and transmen go on this program? How do they justify the way they act on TV.

Why is it that even when just walking down the street or going to a support group transfolk feel the need to go over the top and act like they are in a 24 hour entertainment show. You know the exaggerated speech, the snap of the fingers, the get out of my way "bitch" attitude. To me its like a blend of a street thug gang banger mixed in with some preppy valley girl stereotype.

What is so wrong with just wanting to act like any other man or woman? Now I am totally fine with everyone having a expression or personality, it just that until the media stops portraying us like this and until some of us stop acting like this. It is not going to get better as far as how the general public sees you.

I also want nothing to do with Porn or Prostitution as that for me personally is going to degrade myself. Now I know that in the early days of transgender history, it was nearly impossible to get a job as a transsexual woman or man. So I am not judging anyone, because society creates its own problems by not giving transgender folk an opportunity to get an education and a career. Its much better now but it is still out there.

What are your thoughts?

Kia Ora Shawn,

It's possible, some trans-women 'need' to release the built up, bottled up 'femaleness' that has been hidden/suppressed for many years...And no doubt this excess femaleness is released in the form of flamboyant exhibitionism  :icon_yikes: ...Eventually it should die down...

Metta Zenda :) 

Sex work is likely to remain a fact of life for all women for many years to come, unless maybe we enter an era of "Star Trek" economics, where everyone gets what they need without pressures to do things that are in some ways dehumanizing. Best to worry about yourself and not get into making judgments. Some of us here are currently, or have been sex workers of one kind or another. It might be wise to keep that in mind?

I think I must have filtered that out on my first reading.

In some places, playing the "fierce ->-bleeped-<-" is a necessary survival trait. It can and has saved lives.

It should be the goal of people that care to get women off the streets and off of drugs and feeling like they have to perform sex for money.

I am not judging anyone if they have done that. I have never done it though and I will not.

Like I said there was time when transsexuals would perform on stage for money or in the bedroom. (But stage shows are cool by me)
It was the only work they could get most of the time.
I don't think any women cisgender or transgender should be in a dangerous place of working on the street.

It is getting better but there is still a lot of people who won't hire transgender folks, and they get away with it.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 17, 2013, 12:51:45 AM
It should be the goal of people that care to get women off the streets and off of drugs and feeling like they have to perform sex for money.

I trust you didn't mean it this way, but considering current trends, these observations seem hollow to me.

Maybe I listen to NPR too much.  Here's just one reality check (http://www.polarisproject.org/state-map?gclid=CLrrxYTs7rQCFcuZ4Aodhi0AGg). Sorry it's US-centric, especially when the trends are even scarier in other parts of the world.

Well you know there is a program in San Francisco at a church called City of Refuge, a lot of the girls who work the streets come in there for support and hot meal. They also come so they can find out how to get off the street. The worst part of all this is pimps, who abuse women and get them addicted to drugs and caught up in a vicious cycle.

This is why more people need to start helping women get away from all of that so they can have happy productive lives. I won't go into detail, but I have lost friends to the streets.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 17, 2013, 12:51:45 AM
It is getting better but there is still a lot of people who won't hire transgender folks, and they get away with it.

Sorry I don't know your situation and where you live but if you pass and can get your gender marker changed, this is not much of a problem. Thankfully in Australia you can get your gender marker changed in most states without SRS, and I've heard theres a way to change it on your passport on a federal level without changing it on your birth certificate at the state level.

Also as for the general topic of the thread, these are all stereotypes. I have YET to meet someone like that, I guess I don't hang out in the wrong places. Don't get me wrong, there are a few really extroverted (to not be mean) people I have seen at a support group but then again there are plenty of strange cispeople too. I'm sure there are those stereotypes walking around, but what is the percentage? I bet if you were able to magically count all trans people in the world, they would be a tiny minority.

A vocal and very public tiny minority that is made light of by the media..

The "extravagant" nature of drag queens and other such performers is a part of the act, it's meant to be a parody, most of those people do not identify as transsexuals but are usually flamboyant gay men.

And people who go on Jerry Springer are paid, there have been many leaks regarding that, they sign NDAs, I doubt half of the people that claim to be trans are trans.

If people base their opinions on the media, they are going to have a problem with a lot of people. The media will always spotlight the nutjobs because they are entertaining and newsworthy. What's the point if they show the normal people?

I've had to suffer discrimination due to Islamaphobia, because people like to judge 1.5 billion people based on the actions of a tiny minority of nutjobs. Seem fair?

It's not going to change any time soon...

Well someone can find out your transgender and then fire you from your job,usually in a sneaky underhanded way that leaves you having to prove thats why you were fired. It happens all the time and the Transgender Law Center in San Francisco will tell you of all the cases. In the 1960s in the Tenderloin, you would be arrested for being a female impersinator, beaten or jailed or worse. The gals I met in my support group told me the things that still spill over from that time to today and how they cannot get jobs. Alot of these women don't pass very well so they get judged harshly and they get depressed and give up.

But I have actually met women who act just like they do on Tv and they go around and backstab other transwomen or cisgender women who work on the street. Every so often there is a fight or a heated argument that had spilled over from the street and they bring it into the meeting.

But its rare that happens, most of the time the support group , we all respect each other.

You all should watch a documentary called "Screaming Queens"


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0464189/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0464189/)

It talks much about the history of what women had to deal with and how it is now in comparison

You can find the entire documentary online here:

http://www.amazon.com/Screaming-Queens-Riot-Comptons-Cafeteria/dp/B003MRPN5U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339758718&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Screaming-Queens-Riot-Comptons-Cafeteria/dp/B003MRPN5U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339758718&sr=8-1)\


24 minutes of it can be seen here:

Screaming Queens - The Riot at Compton's Cafeteria on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/12543155)

I should of read the topic more carefully, makes me sense now that you mention Sans Francisco  :P

I still would put money on the fact that world wide, these people are the minority.

Kia Ora Shawn,

Prostitution is one of the oldest professions around...It was quite common in ancient times where many temple priests during ceremonies acted as 'cross dressing' prostitutes, and one could argue that some of these priests were 'transsexual' according to the modern day description ...

Prostitution is legal here in Aotearoa [NZ], street walking is not, but brothels are...There are both cis and trans prostitutes working in the brothels...

For some trans-prostitutes regardless of the risks involved –[STDs-violent assaults etc, ] the money's good and a way  to pay for their surgery...But sadly there are those who do it as a way to survive ie, survival money... 

Cut and Pasted from one of my old threads on prostitution:

I guess there are those for whom it's a way of[or was a way of] validating their gender identity by having men desire them in a sexual way...

Others that I had met had been sexually abuse as children, psychologically this must have a major impact upon a child's developing sponge-like mind, making them feel worthless as a human being, only good for sexual purposes...

"Survival" money's is also a reason, perhaps it's purely economical  ...For others it might be due to a high sex drive...

There are no doubt  quite a number of reasons as to why trans-women sell their bodies...


Prostitution Shawn is a "Supply on Demand" business, if there's no demand ie, no men demanding a prostitute-[men being the main culprits who use them] there's no need for supply...

Metta Zenda :)

I have a friend Rich (who is cis male) who has been on:

Jerry Springer: When he found out his wife was cheating with another woman.
The Maury Show: When he got a paternity test on his son.
Divorce Court: When he and his wife finally split.

Yes, his story was real. He enjoyed the attention and being able to travel on someone else's dime. They fly you out, give you a room to stay, and they pay you. Not sure how much he got for two of them but I do know he got $700 when he went on Divorce Court. By and large it's cis people who go on those shows. We just notice the random trans person because they're rare.

It's for colorful characters who don't care what people think about them. Rich surely doesn't but he's good people. Then again if I like someone they're usually "out there" by societal norms.

Well I would totally go on a talk show if i could bring something helpful to the scene. I guess my main point was it affects how the general population sees transfolk in general, until they actually meet someone in real life and get to know them and like them as a person.


Zenda:

I understand what you are talking about, I have never had to be in a situation where i needed to sell my body to survive, but i had been homeless for 5 years and had a very rough time. I slept under a bridge and ate food at missions. Some guy tried to get me involved in selling my body to other men (and of course I have been living as male all this time). I did not want to do it because I knew it was dangerous and also because I did not think it would be good for my soul.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 17, 2013, 03:02:18 AM
I guess my main point was it affects how the general population sees transfolk in general, until they actually meet someone in real life and get to know them and like them as a person.

I think most people know what transsexuals are at this point. I also think a lot of people have their minds made up either way when it comes to us. I don't think a tv show (especially Springer) is going to change anyone's mind. If someone is open enough to watch a documentary or something educational about us they're usually already somewhat open minded. Also, unless a trans person is very open or obviously in transition than most people don't even know that they have met or are friends with a trans person.

Quoteobviously in transition

yeah I had someone who was ftm that said that to me when i was at the Tom Wadell Clinic in San Francisco, they said "your obviously new to transitioning aren't you"

I am just a young Padiwan at this point, Yoda has not trained me to be a Jedi yet

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 17, 2013, 03:17:59 AM
yeah I had someone who was ftm that said that to me when i was at the Tom Wadell Clinic in San Francisco, they said "your obviously new to transitioning aren't you"

I am just a young Padiwan at this point, Yoda has not trained me to be a Jedi yet

I didn't mean anything derogatory and I apologize if it came out that way. I do feel for you ladies because in society transmen usually have an easier time. I am jealous that your surgery is far more advanced than what we get.

Master Yoda as not taken the time to train young padawan? Remember you're always welcome on the dark side.  :laugh:

...we are geeks.  ;D

Don't worry I did not take any offense, I'm still at the place where I look male on the outside (albiet my intersex mild ais gives me some feminine features)

People still see me as a male right now no matter what, even If I dressed up.

I am not sure i can be a sith lord though  >:-)

Simple answer- don't then!

Accepting responsibility for our choices and not making excuses is all that is required really.

There is no single right way to transition.  If you are RUTHLESSLY honest with yourself, then what works for you is the right choice.

Karen.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 16, 2013, 08:42:52 PM


Why is it that even when just walking down the street or going to a support group transfolk feel the need to go over the top and act like they are in a 24 hour entertainment show. You know the exaggerated speech, the snap of the fingers, the get out of my way "bitch" attitude. To me its like a blend of a street thug gang banger mixed in with some preppy valley girl stereotype.

What is so wrong with just wanting to act like any other man or woman? Now I am totally fine with everyone having a expression or personality, it just that until the media stops portraying us like this and until some of us stop acting like this. It is not going to get better as far as how the general public sees you.

What does it matter to you how someone else acts or behaves? I could be just as happy going to an ice cream parlor with a group of drag queens who are fun and live life than I could with a bunch of self righteous religious zealots who praise normality. Differences are what makes human beings so interesting. Non conformity is not a bad thing.

My neighbors have a 22 year old daughter and she and I are on really good terms, but she is hardly a conformist. I think she is a closet lesbian in fact based on her choice of friends. She does the conforming bit at home to make people happy, but when she comes over to my house it's like I opened up a whole new world because I am not as judgmental. Plus I feel like its validating to be hanging out with a bunch of 20 something's and I am just another woman just like them, although our issues are very different. Some of her female friends are definitely utter non conformists, and it makes for a fun time. Then again there are times when I think that they just want to hang around because I will take them out to dinner because they think I have a lot of money lol.

Quote from: Zumbagirl on January 17, 2013, 06:39:58 AM
My neighbors have a 22 year old daughter and she and I are on really good terms, but she is hardly a conformist. I think she is a closet lesbian in fact based on her choice of friends.

Their generation is fantastic. Each new generation has gotten better on this, but my sense is that my (nearly 19-year-old) son's generation is far more accepting, even among the more "normative" of them, that gay is okay, and that trans people are just people. Maybe it's partly that I get to know those who are my kids' friends.

Consider that he has gone to school first as openly lesbian, dating openly, talking openly (maybe sometimes more openly than some may have liked, but he was never overtly shamed or ostracized for doing so). In girl mode he took two different girlfriends to his two proms (while I was a sort of beard for a friend at my senior prom -- she was a good friend, but I was doing her a favor "protecting" her from the advances of a date whose sexual advances she wanted to avoid). I'm frequently envious of this generation, but mostly I'm happy for them, that they're likely to avoid a lot of pain. I'm sad that this isn't true for everyone, and that places like the Tenderloin are still often magnets for those who come from families that feel it's okay to reject their children, and cast them out with no supports. He's now at a program openly as a transman in transition, so far only doing his best to present as a transman, which is not simple and won't be "passable" until he has top surgery. He'll be going on to a scholarship in 3D animation later this year, and has the potential to enter a field where the demand for workers is high, and no one who has any sense cares whether he's trans, a drag queen or anything else. (Plus he'll have the benefit that on average, transmen earn more than women).

The status of women, and the bias around sex work is still very real, as are the risks, and it's probably wise that you avoided it whatever your personal reasons... but it does remain one of the options that many find more attractive, in some of its forms, than the alternatives available to them. This remains a long-term struggle, and not one that's drawn in black and white.

I really do think, Shawn, especially if you're living in San Francisco, that you need to worry more about yourself and not try to change anyone else, at least for now, except in small and non-judgmental ways. A trans support group in the Tenderloin is going to contain drag queens and sex workers, at least for the foreseeable future, and some of them may, without realizing they are false models, imitate things they saw on Springer and other forms of exploitation entertainment.  That has to be their journey to navigate, not yours.  I do hope that at some point US culture might change, and that there will be more positive support systems for people whose families abandon them,  (and that such abandonment will become less and less socially acceptable over time, and families will come to more lovingly support and accept their trans children, and come to understand why some kind of transition for them is essential, and not a sin or a form of "freakishness" to be shunned.

I made a distinction between drag queens and sex workers only because at least some drag queens, at one point in time, at least, used to make a point of drawing some very clear lines between their performing persona and anything overtly sexual. Can't say I know everyone, or that this has or hasn't changed with the times, and with a gradual opening up of options and choices that might lead some to express themselves differently today than they did back in the Stone Butch Age.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 17, 2013, 04:07:00 AM
I am not sure i can be a sith lord though  >:-)

The sith don't train people. They convert them. If you're not a jedi, you'll never be a sith lord. I can imagine being a sith lord would stop all the weird gendering stuff. Not only do you look really cool, but people know you're willing to use that saber too.

Actually all of the transwomen that I have talked to at the support group I was going to, (about 20 of us there) hated the fact that people still called them ->-bleeped-<-s and confused them with drag queens also. They also talked to me about how drag queens are stealing their thunder and they were also jealous because drag queens were getting jobs in entertainment vs them. So even among the many communities within the circles of LGBTQQI there is some strife.

I am in no way talking about personality differences here though, I am talking about the way we treat each other and how we get seen. I treat people with love,respect, honor and dignity, I choose to act with pizzaz and style and yet be classy and noble. I can only hope everyone does the same.

QuoteThe sith don't train people.

yes they do, Emporer Palpatine taught Anakin Skywalker certain skills you can only get from being on the dark side.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 17, 2013, 01:11:29 PM
yes they do, Emporer Palpatine taught Anakin Skywalker certain skills you can only get from being on the dark side.

Like what? He was already a Jedi Knight and the emperor said go kill people. He told Anakin that these other skills existed, but he never actually taught them.

QuoteDarth Plagueis—born under the name of Hego Damask and remembered as Darth Plagueis the Wise—was a Muun Dark Lord of the Sith, heir to the lineage of Darth Bane and a master of midi-chlorian manipulation, who lived during the century leading up to the Invasion of Naboo. Obsessed with eternal life, Plagueis experimented with ways to cheat death and create new life from the midi-chlorians.
His great contribution to the history of the galaxy was training Darth Sidious in the ways of the Sith and the dark side of the Force, whom he incited to take control of the galaxy and bring about an age of the Sith. Sidious, convinced that his master had outlived his usefulness, eventually killed the Muun in his sleep.

So yes you do get training in the ways of the sith.

Quote from: Emily52736 on January 17, 2013, 01:18:03 PM
Like what? He was already a Jedi Knight and the emperor said go kill people. He told Anakin that these other skills existed, but he never actually taught them.

There is Sith training as only Sith Lords can use Force lightning. Palpatine didn't get a chance to train Anakin to save Padme before she died in child birth. Which really makes no sense because Leia (in the Original Trilogy) talks to Luke about how she remembers their mother as a child (in "Return of the Jedi").

Where I am in western Maryland I can assure you that every transwoman in my TG group (BTW the only one within 90 miles of me) belongs to the I just want to fit in like any other woman catagory.

I grew up and spent most of my life in the shadow of NYC. I've seen the opposite extreme there. I chalk a lot of that up to the sense of anonymity that big cit life gives you. Many may be out of towners taking advantage of that anonymity and distance from home