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There will be no rapture & Jesus is not coming back
There will be no rapture & Jesus is not coming back Pastor Ray Hagins.mp4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiLq5UWNIuA#)

If you believe in jesus you must see this video totally to see how in the bible jesus says he won't be coming back in our time because he came back in his time.

also Jesus isn't Yahshua who was crucified on the cross.
see this video that explains that
The Council That Created Jesus Christ,Ray Hagins PhD - The 1st Creed of Nicea 325_AD.mp4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqFtpV4i4zs#)


wow now i am really confused

All I can say is wow.

What does he do with this which is after Jesus had risen from the dead

Acts 1

1 In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. 3 After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"

7 He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

Just wondering

In the second video he explains jesus isn't yahshua and christianity was created by the catholic church and constantine from that other guy who was the first european pharoh ''see the 2nd video then we can discuss this better

PS: He has other videos downplaying paul and his writings which could be the reason he doesn't use other scriptures of his as acurate

I am not up to seeing the second at the moment  ::) I will take a long at it later when I have a bit more time. (Most likely tomorrow)

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
[13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words

It's amazing how these modern day theologians know more than the disciples and apostles and the Holy Ghost that revealed the gospel unto them.


Sadly they do not edify babes in Christ and only damn innocent souls.

And not very Christ like. He allowed and heard the opposition and then spake the truth. Neither did he trust or teach what the scribes and pharisees taught. He rebuked them and told the truth.

May God bless.

hey del please respond to the verses that the pastor ray hagins remarks because his feelings are so differently based. He uses the bible and yes you do too but its always best to reply to what the person wrote or said instead of just posting what you want. Then after you respond to his video then we can talk about yours maybe even in a separate thread but maybe not depending on what we all find out.

also Jesus isn't Yahshua who was crucified on the cross.
see this video that explains that
The Council That Created Jesus Christ,Ray Hagins PhD - The 1st Creed of Nicea 325_AD.mp4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqFtpV4i4zs#)


your relying on what the catholic bible approved at the council of nicea and he speaks to that in this video

Sorry, the Jesus I beleive in will be coming back.

Amazon D,

I'm sorry if my post is rather general but I see ministers twist scripture so much now of days I guess it just sickens me to be honest. Another reason I can't respond to what he says is because ever since my computer went down I am using a cheap tablet that doesn't have enough memory to play any videos.

I have noticed that now of days ministers have arisen that teach all sorts of stuff contrary to sound doctrine. Many even teach against the writings of the apostles. Sadly they must think they know more than the apostles. I personally find these people who come against men led of the Spirit rather repulsive as the apostles were considered faithful and obedient and diligent enough to be used by name by the Lord in his word.

If I have offended any here they have my sincere apology but I can not apologize for the truth such as the scripture I used and past scriptures on prior posts on various topics. I also apologize if my wording is offensive as I am rather crude of speech and my posting may come across as hateful or arrogant when in fact I do not mean to be. My postings are for a sincere love of the souls of those who love the Lord whether in truth or deceived or babes or mature in Christ.

Once again, I am sorry if I have offended anyone but know just by the title and other posts here this man is wrong. Forever is too long to be wrong kiddo and many of these men don't really care about the souls of those who  read their books or watch their shows as long as they can get rich or famous.

May God bless.

Ray Hagins Refuted (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ClDo8vVslAY#)

A simple search on his claims, which are silly repetitions of foolish and unlearned attempts to connect the life of Jesus Christ to pagan myths, will show esteemed archaeologists and historians refuting such claims.  There will always be scoffers; there will always be those who reject the authority of Jesus Christ and who will attempt to water-down or dismiss the authority of the Bible.

"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." (2 Peter 3:3-4)

Btw, did you notice in Hagin's video the "ankh" attached to the lecturn?  Hagin is a man standing behind the authority of the Egyptian occult attacking the Bible.  I'm sure there is absolutely no bias or agenda behind that man's words.   ::) 

Quote from: Del on January 18, 2013, 10:06:01 AM


I have noticed that now of days ministers have arisen that teach all sorts of stuff contrary to sound doctrine.

If Doctrine was sound, there would not be many forms of Christianity today.

Doctrine is a man made word to describe what that majority believes until another group comes around and challenges it.

Quote from: Del on January 18, 2013, 08:40:05 AM
I guess now that I pointed out another seminary theologian is wrong this post will be removed like my last one.

Hi Del.

We haven't exactly agreed on a number of issues. But I do have some sympathy for you.

In this section, especially, I think many of us find ourselves in a position where we find it difficult to compromise.

The other day, I posted a silly polemic rant. I felt so much better afterwards, even rather smug. Then I had second thoughts and came back and deleted it. I honestly don't think anyone read it which was just as well. It was more silly than nasty if you see what I mean.

But we do these things because we're humans.

I have to say, daily, I find myself in awe of our mods. keeping order while not being noticably partial.

Just to let you know, it happens.

Del i am confused myself about what i heard. I am a believer but what he took right from the bible points to Yahshua / not jesus / spoke about during his time here on earth. I say yahshua because he says jesus was a made up person brought from a european pharo who wanted to be called a god. He even had a statue made to his image which ironically looks like the jesus we all have seen. That statue was made in 335bce or there about. That persons name was something like the salvation of christ or solarus christus.

as for the first video he mentions how yahshua told the apostles he would be back before they could evangelize the cities in israel.  He speaks how pastors today put all reference to today as being what Yahshua was talking about verses his time but if you hear it you can understand that yahshua was speaking about 2000 yrs ago and not now.

Maybe i can get a transcript of what he tells in the video.

Yes he is black and speaks to ancient times and afrikans and egypt and hot that history was stolen by those at the council of nicea and altered many acient writings. I know i do not trust the catholics or those who created their agenda at the council of nicea ..

hugs Del   D

here is another interesting video speaking of all the other so called god suns / sons born of virgins on dec 25th and resurecting etc etc

Real Proof that Jesus was NOT real (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljRKhZ81aqY#)

Amazon D,

Actually, if I don't get kicked off this site I would not mind reading what this person said. It might be interesting.
Thank you,
May God bless.

Quote from: Del on January 18, 2013, 04:32:40 PM
Amazon D,

Actually, if I don't get kicked off this site I would not mind reading what this person said. It might be interesting.
Thank you,
May God bless.

Ahhh Del we love you.. i wish i could find a way to get the words. Hey try googling the author pastor ray hagin .. maybe he has some written down ... hugs Del

if you go so will i del hugs

Quote from: Del on January 18, 2013, 10:06:01 AM
Amazon D,

I see ministers twist scripture so much now of days I guess it just sickens me

This^^^is exactly what the man is saying..."That the Jewish scriptures" and the teachings of Jesus were all "twisted, changed, and/or mistranslated" so as to make a religion out of Jesus, instead of teaching what Jesus preached.

BTW: Yeshau (Arameic) = Jeshua (old Hebrew) = Iesous (Greek) = Jesus (English)

Eashoa' is the Arameic name of the Mesiah

Quote from: Amazon D on January 18, 2013, 06:38:38 AM
In the second video he explains jesus isn't yahshua and christianity was created by the catholic church and constantine from that other guy who was the first european pharoh ''see the 2nd video then we can discuss this better

PS: He has other videos downplaying paul and his writings which could be the reason he doesn't use other scriptures of his as acurate

One of his so called "proofs" is that there are no images of Jesus,but that leaves out a basic understanding of where Christianity came from,who the first converts were and why they did not make images.  Christianity came out of Judisim. The first converts were Jews. What's the second commandment?

Exodus 20

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

And did Jesus say about the greatest commandments? He summed them up into two

Matthew 22

35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

And what else did Jesus say

John 14

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

They did not make the images because it's part of the commandments,and it's out of obedience that they did not do so.

More later.

I BELIEVE

11 yr Old Went to Heaven and Back, and Tells What He Saw! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdUGoFTfP7w#)

Quote from: Amazon D on January 18, 2013, 05:13:50 AM

wow now i am really confused

Don't waste your time being confused, no-one knows the answers to this any more than the crackpots that keep predicting the end of the world. There's more than enough of them serving up platefuls of BS to anyone that wants to consume it. When it happens we will all know, until then enjoy your life and be all you can be.

Quote from: Amazon D on January 19, 2013, 08:54:00 AM
I BELIEVE

11 yr Old Went to Heaven and Back, and Tells What He Saw! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdUGoFTfP7w#)

I do not trust that book "Heaven is for Real" whatsoever.

The first chapter, the father talks about how poor they were and they had no money and was almost destitute as a Pastor....then his son "dies" and comes back from heaven to tell his story. Now, they are millionaires with One Hardback for adults, a study guide, a children's version, a coloring book, CDs, and now an appendium that came out two months ago.

And they now book their testimonies for a fee and charges to come to a church and preach...charges A LOT more than what someone normally gets to guest preach and have their own manager.

It's fake. Just another religious money maker...and they are using children this time. Sad.

Quote from: Annah on January 20, 2013, 12:15:56 PM
I do not trust that book "Heaven is for Real" whatsoever.

The first chapter, the father talks about how poor they were and they had no money and was almost destitute as a Pastor....then his son "dies" and comes back from heaven to tell his story. Now, they are millionaires with One Hardback for adults, a study guide, a children's version, a coloring book, CDs, and now an appendium that came out two months ago.

And they now book their testimonies for a fee and charges to come to a church and preach...charges A LOT more than what someone normally gets to guest preach and have their own manager.

It's fake. Just another religious money maker...and they are using children this time. Sad.

Simply disgustingly shameful and nothing more!

Quote from: Amazon D on January 18, 2013, 06:38:38 AM
In the second video he explains jesus isn't yahshua and christianity was created by the catholic church and constantine from that other guy who was the first european pharoh ''see the 2nd video then we can discuss this better

PS: He has other videos downplaying paul and his writings which could be the reason he doesn't use other scriptures of his as acurate

He leaves out all of early church history and also the history of the Roman Empire. By 67 AD Nero was persecuting Christians. Still well within the time frame that the accounts of Jesus could still be verified by eye witness accounts. Jesus did not do the miracles in a vacuum.  On just two occasions Jesus fed 5,000 and 4,000 men. Add women and children the potential is upwards of 35,000 eye witnesses to those two events alone.

It also leaves out the very reason why Luke wrote a letter to his friend,

Luke 1

1 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

Luke implies he is a skeptic. He is not taking these things at face value,but he investigates it. Why? Because he does not want his friend to be deceived. Luke never says it's a first hand account but an account from investigative work. He verifies it by checking out the eyewitnesses that saw this first hand. Because of his love for his friend,and the fact he took his time,resources and effort to do this,he was going to be 100 % sure that what he was being told is the truth.  Add to that Luke is a physician and one thing about doctors is they know people do not always tell the truth.

since they didn't have the letter J back then and since there was that person a pharo from european decent there seems to be two people. The jesus person made up and the yahshua person who was crucified.

Philosophical question,if I was being addressed by my given name in another language does that mean they are not speaking of the same person? If I was in any of these countries and they addressed me in their language by their understanding of the name does it mean that they are talking about a different Michael?

Meical (In Wales)

Mikhailo (In de Ukraïne)

Miguel (In Spanje en in Portugal)

Mihael (In Slovenië)

Micheil (In Schotland)

Mikael (In Scandinavië)

Mikkel (In Scandinavië)

Mikhail (In Rusland)

Mihai (In Roemenië)

Mykolas (In Lithuanian)

Michele (In Italië)

Mikko (In Finland)

Mihhaelo (In Esperanto)

Mikelo (In Esperanto)

Micheal (In Engelstalige landen)

Myghal (In Cornish)

Miquel (In Catalonië)

Michal (In de Bijbel, Polen en in Tsjechië)

Mikel (In Baskenland)

Mitxel (In Baskenland)

Or do I become a different person just because they use their version of the same name with the same meaning in English?

Quote from: Shantel on January 20, 2013, 01:15:09 PM
Simply disgustingly shameful and nothing more!

I know someone who has died 3 times. They told me that they saw their Grandma, this person used to be a hit man and a hard core biker. He now works at a church, and while not perfect (who among us is anyways?) He is a humble man, not rich, works a hard days job and yet when he told me what He saw and what his Grandma said to him, I was moved.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 21, 2013, 09:23:41 AM
I know someone who has died 3 times. They told me that they saw their Grandma, this person used to be a hit man and a hard core biker. He now works at a church, and while not perfect (who among us is anyways?) He is a humble man, not rich, works a hard days job and yet when he told me what He saw and what his Grandma said to him, I was moved.

My comment is aimed at people who obviously are using something that their small child may or may not have experienced as the foundation for what has obviously become a money making scheme. Once again, it appears to be just another black eye for Christ in the eyes of non-believers who are skeptical of anything having to do with the spiritual realm and most especially with Christianity. These threads become so factious that I prefer not to deal with them generally. This will be my final post in this thread. Over and out!

I know what you meant Shantel, i was not negating your post, in fact I agree. So many people making mega millions off of people. There is a pastor who claims he went to heaven too. I see so many mega churches, who are fundies, making all the dough, and yet humble people in small churches who accept lgbt make nearly nothing.

Quote from: SarahM777 on January 21, 2013, 09:02:43 AM
Philosophical question,if I was being addressed by my given name in another language does that mean they are not speaking of the same person? If I was in any of these countries and they addressed me in their language by their understanding of the name does it mean that they are talking about a different Michael?

Meical (In Wales)

Mikhailo (In de Ukraïne)

Miguel (In Spanje en in Portugal)

Mihael (In Slovenië)

Micheil (In Schotland)

Mikael (In Scandinavië)

Mikkel (In Scandinavië)

Mikhail (In Rusland)

Mihai (In Roemenië)

Mykolas (In Lithuanian)

Michele (In Italië)

Mikko (In Finland)

Mihhaelo (In Esperanto)

Mikelo (In Esperanto)

Micheal (In Engelstalige landen)

Myghal (In Cornish)

Miquel (In Catalonië)

Michal (In de Bijbel, Polen en in Tsjechië)

Mikel (In Baskenland)

Mitxel (In Baskenland)

Or do I become a different person just because they use their version of the same name with the same meaning in English?

Sarah you have to see the 2nd video to understand how they are two different people not two different spellings etc

After watching it the second time,all I hear him doing is taking a statue from about 300 BC,a picture from about 135 BC and a small part of a letter written in 134 AD (Almost 170 years apart) and then drawing a conclusion that somehow these two are related. He doesn't touch once on any of the other historical documents (Non biblical) that show that Jesus did live in Judea,was put to death by Pilot,was born in Bethlehem,he totally leaves out the council of Jerusalem in AD 50 etc.
This is on the first part. (I have to take a break from watching the rest till later)

This is from Josephus "The Antiquities Of The Jews"  Book 18 Chapter 3

SEDITION OF THE JEWS AGAINST PONTIUS PILATE. CONCERNING CHRIST, AND WHAT BEFELL PAULINA AND THE JEWS AT ROME,

1. BUT now Pilate, the procurator of Judea, removed the army from Cesarea to Jerusalem, to take their winter quarters there, in order to abolish the Jewish laws. So he introduced Caesar's effigies, which were upon the ensigns, and brought them into the city; whereas our law forbids us the very making of images; on which account the former procurators were wont to make their entry into the city with such ensigns as had not those ornaments. Pilate was the first who brought those images to Jerusalem, and set them up there; which was done without the knowledge of the people, because it was done in the night time; but as soon as they knew it, they came in multitudes to Cesarea, and interceded with Pilate many days that he would remove the images; and when he would not grant their requests, because it would tend to the injury of Caesar, while yet they persevered in their request, on the sixth day he ordered his soldiers to have their weapons privately, while he came and sat upon his judgment-seat, which seat was so prepared in the open place of the city, that it concealed the army that lay ready to oppress them; and when the Jews petitioned him again, he gave a signal to the soldiers to encompass them routed, and threatened that their punishment should be no less than immediate death, unless they would leave off disturbing him, and go their ways home. But they threw themselves upon the ground, and laid their necks bare, and said they would take their death very willingly, rather than the wisdom of their laws should be transgressed; upon which Pilate was deeply affected with their firm resolution to keep their laws inviolable, and presently commanded the images to be carried back from Jerusalem to Cesarea.

2. But Pilate undertook to bring a current of water to Jerusalem, and did it with the sacred money, and derived the origin of the stream from the distance of two hundred furlongs. However, the Jews were not pleased with what had been done about this water; and many ten thousands of the people got together, and made a clamor against him, and insisted that he should leave off that design. Some of them also used reproaches, and abused the man, as crowds of such people usually do. So he habited a great number of his soldiers in their habit, who carried daggers under their garments, and sent them to a place where they might surround them. So he bid the Jews himself go away; but they boldly casting reproaches upon him, he gave the soldiers that signal which had been beforehand agreed on; who laid upon them much greater blows than Pilate had commanded them, and equally punished those that were tumultuous, and those that were not; nor did they spare them in the least: and since the people were unarmed, and were caught by men prepared for what they were about, there were a great number of them slain by this means, and others of them ran away wounded. And thus an end was put to this sedition.

3. Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, (9) those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; (10) as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.

He lived from 37-100 AD,well within the time frame to check out eye witnesses accounts to the
events that occurred.

Quote from: SarahM777 on January 21, 2013, 04:58:23 PM

3. Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, (9) those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; (10) as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.

Except that you have quoted a text that has Christian insertions into the original

QuoteTwo researchers (Edwin Yamauchi and John P. Meier) have constructed a copy of the "Testimonium"

    "About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing amongst us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him.  And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared."

This^^ the Greek translation is in agreement with the Arabic translation (below)

"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus.  And his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous.  And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders."

Quote from: peky on January 21, 2013, 08:12:59 PM
Except that you have quoted a text that has Christian insertions into the original

This^^ the Greek translation is in agreement with the Arabic translation (below)

"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus.  And his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous.  And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders."

Thank you for correcting my error. I should have known that as Josephus never claimed to be a Christian. I am sorry for causing any confusion due to my lack of double checking the source.