Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Trans people and the current feminist movement

Don't be fooled: feminism is about exploring gender, not policing it.
By Petra Davis Published 18 January 2013 10:17

http://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/2013/01/trans-people-and-current-feminist-movement (http://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/2013/01/trans-people-and-current-feminist-movement)

An international movement is building that links trans liberation with feminist organising. Based around activism and campaigning on grassroots issues and connected through social media, it draws on a rich history of queer and feminist theory while avoiding the binary, male-female thinking which has made some parts of the feminist movement hostile to trans people. For those more interested in the commonalities between feminist and trans campaigning, a host of Tumblrs such as the Trans Women's Anti-Violence Project and Facebook groups such as Feminists Against Transphobia and Feminist: Discuss are creating both transgender space that is explicitly feminist, and feminist space that is explicitly trans inclusive.

The need for such spaces is far from academic, and social media has given rise to street-level organising. As austerity systematically targets marginalised people and decimates the resources aimed at reducing gender inequality, transgender and feminist movements are finding common ground in campaigning around domestic violence, street harassment and reproductive rights, all issues that directly affect women and trans people. For Caitlin Hayward-Tapp, one organiser of the Brighton Feminist Collective, a focus on transgender was always important.

I must have missed a few books or missed a few memos or something over the years, because in all honesty after I read the first couple of sentences I was utterly confused. Is it okay to admit that I don't know what all this means? Intersections of feminism and queer theory and blah blah blah to me sounds no different than reading a good fairy tale. At least I won't be confused when I am done reading the fairy tale :) All is this discussion is going to be useful, because ______ ? I guess I am too old fashioned.

It sort of reminds me of this little dialog from Monty Pythons Life Of Brian:

FRANCIS: Yeah. I think Judith's point of view is very valid, Reg, provided the Movement never forgets that it is the inalienable right of every man--
STAN: Or woman.
FRANCIS: Or woman... to rid himself--
STAN: Or herself.
FRANCIS: Or herself.
REG: Agreed.
FRANCIS: Thank you, brother.
STAN: Or sister.
FRANCIS: Or sister. Where was I?
REG: I think you'd finished.
FRANCIS: Oh. Right.

One thing I like about being a stealth woman is never having to deal with these issues I guess.

Quote from: Zumbagirl on January 19, 2013, 08:43:19 AM
I must have missed a few books or missed a few memos or something over the years, because in all honesty after I read the first couple of sentences I was utterly confused. Is it okay to admit that I don't know what all this means? Intersections of feminism and queer theory and blah blah blah to me sounds no different than reading a good fairy tale. At least I won't be confused when I am done reading the fairy tale :) All is this discussion is going to be useful, because ______ ? I guess I am too old fashioned.

It sort of reminds me of this little dialog from Monty Pythons Life Of Brian:

The problem is that is the intent.

Much, possibly most of what these people say doesn't make any sense at all. It is just a long string of discombobulated words, strung together. The purpose is to confuse.

The classic retort, Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it isn't true, doesn't make any sense either. Because someone doesn't understand it demonstrates that it doesn't make any sense. If it made any sense at all, it would, by definition, be understood.

The intellectual pedestal can only be valid if all women are equally standing upon it, that women are, inherently more intelligent than men. That is a nonsense.

But it becomes further nonsense because it supposes that those who don't understand it are necessarily lacking the intelligence to do so. That is a clear nonsense since there is no actual evidence. A definitive conclusion based upon preference. The entire thesis breaks down. The statements don't make any sense at all.

QED

The article is pretty pro trans I think (only skimmed it). It probably makes more sense if you see it in terms of a rather nasty radfem (TERF)/ trans spat in the UK press recently.  At first glance I think it would be great for trans people if trans issues were picked up & supported by mainstream feminism & vice versa.  Feeling exposed as I currently do I'd like as many people on our side as we can get.

*envious looks at Zumbagirl for her stealthiness*

Honestly, when a feminist isn't supportive of trans women it feels like a betrayal to me.  I think with the younger generation it isn't quite as much of a problem though.

And when trans women aren't supportive of feminists?

The radfems are scum. No argument. But when a trans-supportive article like the above gets attacked by the people it's trying to defend? *shrug* I get why some feminists are leery of the trans* community. I am a bit myself.

Yeah :/.  Please don't attack supporters or allies if anybody is.  That is not cool at all.

My experience has been that all the transwomen I have met are staunch feminists having experienced the ssystem from the inside and rejected it.  I despise bigots of all stripes.

Whenever someone claiming to be a feminist comes out with startments like those in this article, we are all supposed to stand around, clasping our little hands together under our cute little chins, thanking for the mercies being granted.

What we are not noticing is that this proposed 'Space, will include transmen, (because they can become pregnant so need abortions). So the only group now excluded is men. (All men are Rapists)

Well that's nice. Until these feminists types decide to turn on us again.

I don't want to be granted anything. I don't want privilege. I want rights. We don't get rights by depriving others, Men are not rapists. I don't need, neither will I accept rights at anyone's expense.

Quote from: spacial on January 22, 2013, 11:07:15 AM
I don't want to be granted anything. I don't want privilege. I want rights. We don't get rights by depriving others, Men are not rapists. I don't need, neither will I accept rights at anyone's expense.

Feminism has to be a movement for equality.  Without this you force people into gender stereotypes and there is no point.  You would be substituting one form of assumed role for another.  But then I am careful to only support causes that are gender, age,  religion and orientation neutral. :-P

I mean to say I agree in case that wasn't clear!  :-) x

Quote from: spacial on January 22, 2013, 11:07:15 AM
Whenever someone claiming to be a feminist comes out with startments like those in this article, we are all supposed to stand around, clasping our little hands together under our cute little chins, thanking for the mercies being granted.

What we are not noticing is that this proposed 'Space, will include transmen, (because they can become pregnant so need abortions). So the only group now excluded is men. (All men are Rapists)

Well that's nice. Until these feminists types decide to turn on us again.

I don't want to be granted anything. I don't want privilege. I want rights. We don't get rights by depriving others, Men are not rapists. I don't need, neither will I accept rights at anyone's expense.

Nobody is asking anyone to clasp their hands under their cute little chins (though I'm sure yours is adorable). This is just about people in the feminist movement who feel trans folks have a significant place in that movement and that our issues should be included. That's all it is. Nothing particularly nefarious is going on.

Trans men are men. I think you meant all cis men (or non-trans men if you prefer) are rapists? I don't see anything in the article suggesting that. I think your contact with feminists has been negative, and I'm sorry for that, but not all feminists are quite the same. Men of any variety are welcomed into a lot of feminist spaces, there are a lot of men who are feminists, including my father for one. Some spaces are female-only, which would generally mean all men (trans or cis) would be uninvited. I don't believe the reproductive rights conference was such a case. The womyn-born-womyn spaces are a perversion of the radfems, and are generally not encouraged by mainstream feminism. Feminism (liberal feminism anyway) is about equality for all, men included.

Personally, I think it's great to see more articles like this. Feminists have tended to ignore the issues with radfems and with some of the ugly history of the second wave in the interests of solidarity. This is just about feminists taking some responsibility for cleaning up the movement. Hopefully there will be more of the same.