Susan's Place Transgender Resources

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/28/16739587-boy-scouts-close-to-ending-ban-on-gay-members-leaders?lite (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/28/16739587-boy-scouts-close-to-ending-ban-on-gay-members-leaders?lite)

By Pete Williams, Justice Correspondent, NBC News

The Boy Scouts of America, one of the nation's largest private youth organizations, is actively considering an end to its decades-long policy of banning gay scouts or scout leaders, according to scouting officials and outsiders familiar with internal discussions.

If adopted by the organization's board of directors, it would represent a profound change on an issue that has been highly controversial -- one that even went to the US Supreme Court. The new policy, now under discussion, would eliminate the ban from the national organization's rules, leaving local sponsoring organizations free to decide for themselves whether to admit gay scouts.

It's about time! Would be glad to see this come to pass.

I just heard this on the news around half an hour ago, and silently cheered whilst wondering why this wasn't done sooner, just as I did now that women are allowed to serve in combat roles and back last year when gay marriage was legalized in my state. I mean, it's great that it's being done now, but why only now and not before?
I wish that these things could have happened much earlier and perhaps saved many people grief and heartbreak in the past for not being able to realize their dreams just because the almighty rule book says so.

I wouldn't expect transboys to get admitted anytime soon. This is a VERY conservative organization, not at all like Girls Scouts.

--Jay

Don't cheer just yet.  It sounds like they may just be dropping the gay ban as a national policy but will be "respecting" local groups rights to continue to ban gay members and leaders.
Unless they make a national policy to include gays then this may just end up as a marketing ploy to gain back some of their lost corporate donors.

Quote from: SunKat on January 29, 2013, 11:38:34 PM
Don't cheer just yet.  It sounds like they may just be dropping the gay ban as a national policy but will be "respecting" local groups rights to continue to ban gay members and leaders.
Unless they make a national policy to include gays then this may just end up as a marketing ploy to gain back some of their lost corporate donors.

^^
This.

So much of this.

Don't kid yourselves, gals.  This is a PR stunt, nothing more.

Back in 1985 I went to aberystwyth and took the family on a trip up the mountain railway. About half way up, there was a scout camp with a huge banner saying, boys gay scout movement. The scouts were standing around posing in pairs hugging each other. It was a real WTF moment. I often wondered whether it was a wind up or what.

Quote from: SunKat on January 29, 2013, 11:38:34 PMthis may just end up as a marketing ploy to gain back some of their lost corporate donors.

It is not donors they need as much as youth members.

In 1998 they were able to count 3.4 million youth.

Down to 2.9 million in 2006.

And 2.7 million in 2012 from their page today at:
http://www.scouting.org/media/mediakit/ataglance.aspx (http://www.scouting.org/media/mediakit/ataglance.aspx)

This article suggests they peaked in 1972 at close to 6 million youth.
http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2010/02/boy-scouts-at-100-years/ (http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2010/02/boy-scouts-at-100-years/)

There is more to the picture than just stances on sexuality involved
in my opinion.  Something around half of BSA's units today are sponsored
by Mormon Wards (churchs) and fewer and fewer sponsored by
secular organizations. 

My kids suggested BSA was a recruiting ground for church membership
in their tenure.

I approve!  Although I'm still expecting them to take away my Eagle for being an atheist... I think I'd be more ok with them taking it away for being transgender.  Maybe there is some process that I could go through to have it converted to the equivalent girl scout rank if I transition?

Cool.

I was happy to see this and I hope it goes through.

As a former member in my youth, I was upset (and frankly, embarrassed) when I learned of their stance.

Quote from: SunKat on January 29, 2013, 11:38:34 PM
Don't cheer just yet.  It sounds like they may just be dropping the gay ban as a national policy but will be "respecting" local groups rights to continue to ban gay members and leaders.
Unless they make a national policy to include gays then this may just end up as a marketing ploy to gain back some of their lost corporate donors.

I think it is much more than a marketing ploy.

Now, if you're a scoutmaster and one of your scouts' lesbian mother comes to you wanting to help out, or an openly gay child wants to join your troop, you must refuse, regardless of how you or the rest of the troop feels.

Under the new policy, you would be allowed to admit them. Although I wish they were going further, to me that sounds like a big difference.

This is just my opinion, :police: but I definitely have lost a HUGE portion of respect and trust for the "Boy scouts". I have heard of "boyscout" leaders sexually molesting and raping boys and that is something so serious it cant even be described, only fought. Obviously not all are bad people...thus not all being molested and all, but I will be DAMMED!  before I say that I think "GAY" leaders should be allowed to lead boyscout troops. I think if they are serious about fixing laws, and regulations around "boy scout's" they will add a criminal, Personal, and ACTUAL background check on EACH and EVERY individual who shall apply to be a boyscout "Leader"... very simple to me, but of course not so simple to go about it. I think allowing gay people more rights and freedoms is a beautiful thing, but seriously... Its BOY SCOUTS! boys should be allowed to be boys... I don't completely support this new law, and they better just be real about it, and check People before they are allowed to take they're children into the woods and such...! HAVE A GREAT DAY EVERYONE! :angel:

Um, gay doesn't = child molestor.   Having measures in place to keep those boys safe from molestors is obviously a super, but separate, important issue.

Quote from: Jen on February 05, 2013, 11:12:17 AM
Um, gay doesn't = child molestor.   Having measures in place to keep those boys safe from molestors is obviously a super, but separate, important issue.

Similar logic works to defeat the main argument I've heard for why the BSA didn't want to admit gay scouts and leaders in the first place: gay != immoral.  There are lots of awesome gay people, but unfortunately there are also lots of horrible straight people.

Quote from: EmSchuma on February 05, 2013, 11:17:45 AM
There are lots of awesome gay people, but unfortunately there are also lots of horrible straight people.

The solution is easy. Stop allowing straight people to be scoutmasters.

Quote from: agfrommd on February 05, 2013, 11:43:41 AM
The solution is easy. Stop allowing straight people to be scoutmasters.

There's cool straight people, too, though... I don't think there is any correlation between somebody's orientation and how "good" of a person they are.  I would expect that the percentage of horrible straight people is equal to the percentage of horrible gay people.

Quote from: EmSchuma on February 05, 2013, 11:49:16 AM
There's cool straight people, too, though... I don't think there is any correlation between somebody's orientation and how "good" of a person they are.  I would expect that the percentage of horrible straight people is equal to the percentage of horrible gay people.

Well yes, it doesn't make any more sense to ban straight people than it does to ban gay people. It was a poor attempt on my part to be ironic.

Quote from: agfrommd on February 05, 2013, 12:13:20 PM
Well yes, it doesn't make any more sense to ban straight people than it does to ban gay people. It was a poor attempt on my part to be ironic.

And it doesn't help that I have a "take everything literally" mindset right now due to a morning spent programming...

I am a former Eagle Scout, and I say former because I stopped associating myself with the BSA many years ago because of their hateful, backwards, indifference to everyone who isn't rich, narrow-minded, and "in the big club". I have watched with joy as one big money sponsor after another has disowned the BSA and stopped funding them.

I think that the public needs to know that the BSA has been knowingly employing LGBT people forever and a day. There are lots of LGBT people in their ranks, and even I knew who the LGBT people in my own troop were. We had an asst. Scoutmaster who was gay, and at least three scouts who fell somewhere in the LGBT spectrum. As a girl trapped in a boy's body, I had to watch my fellow scouts live in silence with who they were.

This pending policy of allowing LGBT people into the scouts is long over-due! I think that under this pending policy, the public needs to pressure the BSA into being like the girlscouts as far as allowing trans people as members. If the GSA can allow transgirls, the BSA can accept transboys!

Hopefully they make it so each individual group has to except them, it would be a great thing if they did.

The BSA has a long way to go before they're as awesome and as inclusive as the GSA, but at least the scouts are trying to change. Whether or not they actually do change will probably determine their continued relevance.

I remember way back when, one of the first things that made me realize I was a little different than other kids, was going to boy scouts meetings reluctantly, while being deeply envious of my sister in the girl scouts, who got to do all the fun stuff!  :laugh:

Well I heard on the news this weekend that the decision has been bumped to the May annual meeting. Boo!

:|
I can't say I'm shocked, but at least it's the near future, instead of some interminable delay so they can pretend to consider the issue indefinitely.

Quote from: Allana Lovins on February 05, 2013, 10:50:48 AMI have heard of "boyscout" leaders sexually molesting and raping boys and that is something so serious it cant even be described, only fought. Obviously not all are bad people...thus not all being molested and all, but I will be DAMMED!  before I say that I think "GAY" leaders should be allowed to lead boyscout troops.

Child-molestation isn't a gay thing. It's a pedophilic thing.

Reminds me of when the scandal of the sexual abuse of altar-boys first became a big thing in the news --- and the big church "leaders" who didn't want to do their job and fixed it tried to "solve" the problem by preventing gay men from becoming priests -- thus blaming the problem on gays.

But that doesn't work. A gay man isn't interested in a little boy. He wants a mature, well-built, hairy, muscular, sweaty, man --- pretty much the same thing a straight girl wants. He's not going to get it from a little kid.

Sexual abuse of boys isn't a gay thing. It's a pedophilic thing.

Quote from: Allana Lovins on February 05, 2013, 10:50:48 AMI think if they are serious about fixing laws, and regulations around "boy scout's" they will add a criminal, Personal, and ACTUAL background check on EACH and EVERY individual who shall apply to be a boyscout "Leader"... very simple to me, but of course not so simple to go about it.

Yes --- of course it's a no-brainer that adults who are given such authority over children should be background-checked. But what's this got to do with allowing gay scout leaders? It's like saying "I don't think people should be allowed to wear purple because jumping off a cliff without a parachute or a hand-glider can be dangerous".

Quote from: Allana Lovins on February 05, 2013, 10:50:48 AMI think allowing gay people more rights and freedoms is a beautiful thing, but seriously... Its BOY SCOUTS! boys should be allowed to be boys...

Yes --- let boys be boys. Let ALL boys be boys --- not just straight boys --- ALL boys -- including gay boys.

Oh --- and it will be demeaning if one of these boys, for being gay, is made to know that he (just because he's gay) can't be a scout leader when he grows up.

Once again --- sexual abuse of boys isn't a gay thing. It's a pedophilic thing.

I came across this organization recently (Scouting with an all-inclusive bent), and while I don't have the time or inclination to be actively involved I am looking into ways in which I can help.

Baden-Powell Service Association
http://bpsa-us.org/  (http://bpsa-us.org/)

Quote from: sophieoftn on February 18, 2013, 10:30:34 AM
Yes --- let boys be boys. Let ALL boys be boys --- not just straight boys --- ALL boys -- including gay boys.

What about boys that are really girls?  Or girls that are really boys? :P

Quote from: EmSchuma on February 18, 2013, 11:28:47 AM
What about boys that are really girls? 

They can join the Girl Scouts!

QuoteOr girls that are really boys? :P

And they should be able to join Boy Scouts!

Simple.

Z

Quote from: Zythyra on February 18, 2013, 09:05:03 PM


Simple.

Z

So simple it makes neanderthals brains explode.  BSA will stand around and talk about it for who knows how long.. GSA  moved on it.. Like,  Ta Day!!!!     

Quote from: CybilB on February 18, 2013, 09:34:02 AM
The BSA has a long way to go before they're as awesome and as inclusive as the GSA, but at least the scouts are trying to change. Whether or not they actually do change will probably determine their continued relevance.

I remember way back when, one of the first things that made me realize I was a little different than other kids, was going to boy scouts meetings reluctantly, while being deeply envious of my sister in the girl scouts, who got to do all the fun stuff!  :laugh:

I know how you felt Cybil. In Scotland here I couldnt wait to join the Scouts so that I could wear my kilts to all our meetings. Back then all Scouts wore kilts as uniform for ceremonial and church parades etc but it was optional for the normal activities. Our Scoutmaster and assistant wore kilts and I wore mine all the time as did a fair number of the boys. I envied my female cousins in the guides because they wore skirts all the time too so when I got into my kilt I was ecstatic as were a few of my friends who also liked kilts and as I found out also liked boys wearing kilts!!
It was never a problem for me but its a good thing that the organisation shiould open up and welcome gay members as at the end of the day we should all be able to live in peaceful coexistance.

I don't know what I was feeling that day I was pretty emotional my transition is beginning well I found a therapist  and I'm super happy I love everyone sorry for the drama, a great day .

Boy Scouts End Longtime Ban on Openly Gay Youths (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/24/us/boy-scouts-to-admit-openly-gay-youths-as-members.html?_r=0)

The Boy Scouts of America on Thursday ended its longstanding policy of forbidding openly gay youths to participate in its activities, a step its chief executive called "compassionate, caring and kind."

The decision, which came after years of resistance and wrenching internal debate, was widely seen as a milestone for the Boy Scouts, a symbol of traditional America. More than 1,400 volunteer leaders from across the country voted, with more than 60 percent approving a measure that said no youth may be denied membership "on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone...."

No similar proposal to allow gay adults was on the agenda, and the executives have said little about how they made the distinction. But in surveys this spring, many parents and volunteers around the country said they were against the idea of openly gay scout leaders.

Quote from: Jamie D on May 30, 2013, 02:44:48 PM
Boy Scouts End Longtime Ban on Openly Gay Youths (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/24/us/boy-scouts-to-admit-openly-gay-youths-as-members.html?_r=0)

The Boy Scouts of America on Thursday ended its longstanding policy of forbidding openly gay youths to participate in its activities, a step its chief executive called "compassionate, caring and kind."

The decision, which came after years of resistance and wrenching internal debate, was widely seen as a milestone for the Boy Scouts, a symbol of traditional America. More than 1,400 volunteer leaders from across the country voted, with more than 60 percent approving a measure that said no youth may be denied membership "on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone...."

Good!  This is definitely a step forward.

Quote
No similar proposal to allow gay adults was on the agenda, and the executives have said little about how they made the distinction. But in surveys this spring, many parents and volunteers around the country said they were against the idea of openly gay scout leaders. [/i]

We'll have to keep working on leaders... would allowing gay male leaders really be any different than allowing straight female leaders?

While I am saddened that the BSA isn't more inclusive, and about how I have no clue what my current status means in term of having attained the rank of eagle. I will never be able to deny that the core of the program is a fantastic set of ideals and a solid program for teaching youths valuable skills and just keeping them active.