Susan's Place Transgender Resources

yesterday i had family come over for a visit and  my cousin who is a bio male was showing off his sad excuse for a neck beard my father and i  asked how long he'd been growing it, he said almost 5 weeks, my father and i laughed our heads off when i showed him i had 3 times as much as much hair growth in 1 week, then he lifted his shirt to try and out do me by showing off body hair ( which was maybe 3 hairs), i upstaged him again and lifted my shirt and the bottom of my binder to reveal my stomach and back which is almost covered in hair (more like fur). he then as a last resort tried to challange me to a dick measuring contest. to my surprise my fathe being a smart ass  like me automaticly told my cousin not to shame himself, that i had atleat 2 inches on him.  the look of horror on his face was priceless, and my mum spat her drink everywhere from laughing, everyone had a laugh it was all in good fun but it made my day :)

That's awesome, especially the last part and everyone's reactions!

Haha, that is so awesome man :)

LOL Thats priceless.

haha that's great XD

That's beautiful XDD

Virtual High-Five lad. ;D ;D ;D

ROFL Poor guy, he didn't stand a chance against your manliness.

Not looking to start anything..but what if it was the other way around?
What if your cousin put down your masculinity and made you feel down about it?
What if he did like you did too him? Would you still feel bad even though he was playing?
Would all of you be praising his cousin??

I know it was all in fun,
But this kind of thing gets you thinking..
just saying.

Quote from: Jayr on February 09, 2013, 04:49:01 PM
Not to be an >-bleeped-<..but what if it was the other way around?
What if your cousin put down your masculinity and made you feel down about it?
Would all of you be praising his cousin??

I'm sure that he, being a cis-male, isn't going to doubt his masculinity simply because he has less hair than someone else. He doesn't have to live with that constant asterisk that the trans population has to deal with all of the time. That whole "I'm not completely real" thing. At the end of the day, he and everyone else will acknowledge that he's a man. A trans guy, however, would have discrimination and a disclaimer that he's not a "real" man because he doesn't have a Y-chromosome. No offense to the cousin, but I'd say that you should take any win you can get, considering how sparse they are for us.

Food for thought.  :)

Quote from: DianaP on February 09, 2013, 04:53:30 PM
I'm sure that he, being a cis-male, isn't going to doubt his masculinity simply because he has less hair than someone else. He doesn't have to live with that constant asterisk that the trans population has to deal with all of the time. That whole "I'm not completely real" thing. At the end of the day, he and everyone else will acknowledge that he's a man. A trans guy, however, would have discrimination and a disclaimer that he's not a "real" man because he doesn't have a Y-chromosome. No offense to the cousin, but I'd say that you should take any win you can get, considering how sparse they are for us.

Food for thought.  :)

Oh so being trans gives you the right to put down other peoples femininity and masculinity..
Sorry, I was never informed of that one.

I think it's kindof a double standard but whatever.
OP: Just don't complain if your cousin gets back at you.

No one was putting down anyone's masculinity. No one was trying to imply that the cousin was any less of a man. They just pointed out that Justin had more body hair. It's just hair. Unless everyone was laughing at the cousin because they were mocking him for not being a man (instead of the look on his face), there's no need to be so sensitive.  ???

Quote from: DianaP on February 09, 2013, 05:01:07 PM
No one was putting down anyone's masculinity. No one was trying to imply that the cousin was any less of a man. They just pointed out that Justin had more body hair. It's just hair. Unless everyone was laughing at the cousin because they were mocking him for not being a man (instead of the look on his face), there's no need to be so sensitive.  ???

I'm pretty sure if the roles had been flipped, all of you would have had a different opinion.
I just think the double standard is wrong.

You said it yourself in your previous post.
It was okay to mess with the cousin simply because he was cis.
I think there's a little something wrong with that.

If you say it would have been completely fine for his cousin to do that to him, than fine.
I'm sorry, there's no double standard and it's fair.

Again; Don't complain OP if you cousin gets you back. He owes you one now.
I'm gonna leave it at that, not looking for trouble.

Quote from: Jayr on February 09, 2013, 05:12:04 PM
You said it yourself in your previous post.
It was okay to mess with the cousin simply because he was cis.

Well, yeah. It's completely different. He's not in doubt and insecurity over his own gender, just his body hair.

Quote from: DianaP on February 09, 2013, 05:17:11 PM
Well, yeah. It's completely different. He's not in doubt and insecurity over his own gender, just his body hair.

There's no difference. We're all people.
And who are you, that you can judge peoples degrees of insecurities and compare them to one another?

All I was saying was how wrong it is to praise someone for putting down someone else,
when if the opposite had happened everyone would have felt horrible for the OP.

Why? Because messing with someone cis is acceptable, but apparently horrible if done to a trans individual.
That's wrong and unfair.

You flat out admitted it was okay to mess with cis people just because they are cis.
A my the only one that sees something wrong with that..

It just bugs me how much of a double standard we have here,
and this just so happened to be the thread I spoke out on.

Well, it's kind of obvious that a cis male knows that he's a guy since he's biologically male, whereas a trans person doesn't have that luxury. It's just obvious which one is more secure with his gender.

Besides, no one was putting anyone down. It was just a showing of body hair.

You're entitled to your opinion. However, it's just that: an opinion.  ???

Sounds like typical boy competition to me. If the cousin was showing off, then he should expect to be challenged. This sort of thing happens in adulthood as well--for example, I was in my gay group last year, mouthing off about something (I can't remember what), and a couple of the guys took me down a peg. I had second thoughts and retracted, and we went on with our conversation. No big deal. They were quite right to say something; I was being obnoxious.

I should also point out that if the roles were reversed, it wouldn't be a "fair fight," so to speak. From what I have read, nobody was trying to say that the cousin isn't a real man, but trans men are told that pretty consistently. Apples and oranges. Anyway, if the OP were going overboard and other men were around, he would probably be challenged as well.

How obvious is the insecurity on this thread.

Quote from: =celestica= on February 09, 2013, 05:41:14 PM
How obvious is the insecurity on this thread.

Well, all things considered, trans people should be expected to be insecure.  :(

Quote from: Jayr on February 09, 2013, 05:33:26 PM
There's no difference. We're all people.
And who are you, that you can judge peoples degrees of insecurities and compare them to one another?

All I was saying was how wrong it is to praise someone for putting down someone else,
when if the opposite had happened everyone would have felt horrible for the OP.

Why? Because messing with someone cis is acceptable, but apparently horrible if done to a trans individual.
That's wrong and unfair.

You flat out admitted it was okay to mess with cis people just because they are cis.
A my the only one that sees something wrong with that..

It just bugs me how much of a double standard we have here,
and this just so happened to be the thread I spoke out on.

Well, the fact of life is that these things are common even if both guys are cis. Families compare their kids for bragging rights- the point is that Justin can now revel in being the victor of one of these "dick-measuring" contests. It's really just a social sport; friends do it when they're showing off their new body hair, parents show off their kids to people they care about out of pride. At the end of the day, they're both normal guys- the fact that our friend here proved himself as manly according to the standards measured is just that much better for him because his Y chromosome has an extra arm attached to it and is missing the SRY gene  :laugh:

Quote from: Arch on February 09, 2013, 05:40:36 PM
Sounds like typical boy competition to me. If the cousin was showing off, then he should expect to be challenged. This sort of thing happens in adulthood as well--for example, I was in my gay group last year, mouthing off about something (I can't remember what), and a couple of the guys took me down a peg. I had second thoughts and retracted, and we went on with our conversation. No big deal. They were quite right to say something; I was being obnoxious.

I should also point out that if the roles were reversed, it wouldn't be a "fair fight," so to speak. From what I have read, nobody was trying to say that the cousin isn't a real man, but trans men are told that pretty consistently. Apples and oranges. Anyway, if the OP were going overboard and other men were around, he would probably be challenged as well.

I agree! It sounded just like typical guys playing around, it's not literally his story that bothered me;
What bothers me is the double standard from the full picture.

If the roles were reversed, no one would have been telling the OP he's not a real man either.
Still would have been friendly competition about body hair yet people would have reacted completely differently.
(Calling his cousin a a**hole for example.)

That's what bothered me at first but now I'm just ticked that someone flat out admitted they had a right over a group of people because they're part of another...

So if a trans guy just came up and said, "I'm finally growing a beard!" after a lifetime of living a lie as a female, and someone else just rained on his parade, there would be no difference?

Honestly, there is a difference. It's like proposing to someone at another person's wedding. Sometimes, there are extenuating circumstances and you should just let those struggling with their gender identity have a boost, especially because no one was being put down in the process.

Plus, no one said that one group had more rights than another. We're just acknowledging a clear difference.  ???

Quote from: DianaP on February 09, 2013, 06:00:11 PM
So if a trans guy just came up and said, "I'm finally growing a beard!" after a lifetime of living a lie as a female, and someone else just rained on his parade, there would be no difference?

No?
I have a very flat chest and hardly no rear and I get sad about it but there are cis women just like that.
I have big hands and big feet but guess what? Cis women can have those too.
How do you think those cis women feel?

At least I have a reason for why my body is like this.

Trans people need to stop feeling sorry for themselves.

Yeah, but when a cis-female is skinny, she's just deemed to be a skinny female.

When a trans person doesn't look "female" enough, people use that to attack her.

Big difference.  :(

Oh, I forgot that women don't get crap everyday for how they look.
Sorry.


Modified for profanity  ::)

Quote from: =celestica= on February 09, 2013, 06:11:08 PM
Oh, I forgot that women don't get crap everyday for how they look.
Sorry.

I'm leaving it at that, you should too.
No point arguing with someone that has an excuse for everything.

Quote from: =celestica= on February 09, 2013, 06:11:08 PM
Oh, I forgot that women don't get crap everyday for how they look.
Sorry.

There's a difference between having "flaws" pointed out to you and what trans people have to go through: being treated like a "fake" male/female because of the same "flaws."

If you're bothered by double standards, why doesn't that bother you?  ???

Quote from: Jayr on February 09, 2013, 06:13:02 PM
I'm leaving it at that, you should too.
No point arguing with someone that has an excuse for everything.

Well, they're not so much excuses as they are realities.  ???

OK everyone needs to calm the hell down, for starters i was not making fun of my cousins masculinity, it was all in fun, it's just how we are in Australia, men and women jest with each other for fun all the time, we were just a couple guys mucking around, and i am aware that there are double standards but why is it every time i post a situation where i came out on top does it turn into a bitching session about double standards, can't people take it how it was meant as just a couple guys doing what guys do, when ever this kinda thing happens it ruins the very few wins i get and kinda reminds me i am not a real guy, so thanks for ruining it

Sorry.  :(

I apologies. I had no idea others had brought this topic up in one of your other threads before.
Wouldn't have brought anything up in this specific thread had I known.

It wasn't my intention for it to escalate the way it did,
Someone just hit a nerve by saying cismen and transmen are different and I allowed it to get to me instead of just letting it pass by.
Sorry it came off horrible, I got wrapped up in the argument. You're just as much of a man as your cousin is, dude.

Let me just say;
Not only are you a real man, you're a hairy one at that.
Be glad! I'm like a hairless mole rat :P
(Kim Possible anyone?)

Quote from: DianaP on February 09, 2013, 06:00:11 PM
So if a trans guy just came up and said, "I'm finally growing a beard!" after a lifetime of living a lie as a female, and someone else just rained on his parade, there would be no difference?

I would definitely jump all over a trans guy who started bragging about how insanely hairy he was if he was being obnoxious about it--especially if there were lots hairier guys in the room.

"Look, I'm finally growing a beard!" is not the same thing, to my mind. That rates a "Good for you!" from me. It's all in how they package it...

Personally, some of my favorite moments in my current life are the ones in which some gay cis friend and I are insulting each other in a friendly way. He'll make a joke about the "Vulva" that I drive, I'll make a smart remark back, he'll return, I'll zap him back, we'll jostle each other physically.

Maybe it's just a guy thing that women don't get? (Then again, I've run into so many trans men who don't get it, either. I think they spent most of their time in lesbian groups and don't understand male bonding.)

Oh trust me, I've been around plenty of guys. I get that they rip on each other a lot.  :laugh:

Quote from: DianaP on February 09, 2013, 10:12:45 PM
Oh trust me, I've been around plenty of guys. I get that they rip on each other a lot.  :laugh:

I figured that you had, but that isn't what I'm getting at. I've always enjoyed this sort of bonding; even when I was living as a girl, I worked in a male-dominated job and gave as good as I got--actually, since I was a bit quicker than they were, I gave better than I got. I suppose I was treated as a sort of honorary guy. Anyway, I liked it as much as the other guys obviously did, and I like and expect it even more now.