Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Since I've been here, I noticed that about 80-90% of everyone is gay. In real life I meet other guys and they are either bisexual or gay, I never met a straight transguy (like me). As a kid, I always thought I was a boy not only because I behaved like one, but I loooved girls from childhood xD It was only until recently that I found out that FTMs can be gay, and that identity & orientation are two different things. I thought I was a lesbian, because I'm a boy in a girls body...I seriously thought that up until recently.

So, how come is it that most transguys are gay/bi? Is there a link between being FTM and attraction to men? I know I'm 100% straight, and I have no femininity in me at all, behavior and interest-wise. As a kid I thought I was bisexual, but only out of curiosity. Now I realized I'm just the typical white straight male, nothing special  :( lol

I'm a straight guy as well.

My theory is that it's probably that people who are trans are also more open to admitting to themselves that they're gay.  A lot of people, especially men, are horrified by the idea that they might be anything other than straight, particularly men, but once you've realised that you're not cisgendered not being heterosexual probably isn't such a scary revelation anymore.  Not saying that being gay/bi/whatever isn't sometimes difficult, but surely less so than being trans.  Trans people are probably just more open to things that aren't in societies "normal" category.

Only speaking for myself here:

I believe souls are genderless, and that people fall in love with souls, not bodies; so if I love someone who happens to be male bodied then that's okay.

I used to think I was a lesbian, then I met this guy who I had an instant connection with, almost like we met before; then I started changing my mind. I later got married to a different guy, but that was disastrous....

While I can love someone in a male's body, I now realize that I am in no way physically attracted to their bodies. I don't like the way they taste, smell, or feel. I've always enjoyed the taste, smell, and feelings of women, so that's where, at least on a physical scale, I am planning on staying for now on.

I am not talking for the other guys on here; but I know for myself (and also some lesbians who I know) that sometimes you start dating men because that's either what's expected or that's what you think you want, like, you're trying to be normal. I also realize now that at the time when I thought I was physically attracted to men, I was getting confused between what I thought was attractive and what I wanted to look like; I also spent a bit of time dressing like the women who I thought were hot. Yeah... it was a bit of a confusing time, but now I know I am trans and that male bodies just don't do it for me.

im straight as well. i think most straight guys just dont talk about their sexuality on here.

Yeah...I'm straight.
I just thing it's the interwebz getting to you, dude.

Straight as well, mate.  I don't know if straight FTMs are just less vocal/visible, but I was and am still surprised to see so many gay/bi trans guys...not a bad thing, but just surprising.

Straight here too.

However, most of the transguys I get along with or have befriended online are gay. The gay guys are a lot more chill and far less narcissistic.   

since I'm at uni I have access to lots of peer-reviewed journals, and I was just going through a few articles that attempted to give a snapshot of the trans* demographic. Of the three I perused, all showed that transmen who prefer women (straight I guess), are the rather overwhelming majority. Transmen who prefer men were between 8-20% (in those studies).

So yeah..probably just not getting a good random sample here on the web (in terms of people who discuss their sexuality). To me it seems the proportions are similar to cis folks.

I'm actually bisexual. I am dating a woman, but have dated men as well. I prefer relationships with women to men, but find men sexually attractive.

When I go to meetings I feel like most of the transguys I hear from are straight. But I think maybe gay transguys are often more vocal because it's a little more confusing and not the cultural default. Also yeah gay people on the internet are more visible than irl.

Well, here I go stirrin' those statistics up a bit  >:-)

As it stands, I'm a panromantic asexual. What the hell does that mean and what am I smoking, you ask?

Panromantic means I can love everyone and anyone in the romantic sense. Do I? Hell no. That'd be really awkward for everyone.
Asexual for me means that the thought of sexual things makes me cringe so hard that every cell in my body is cringing and facepalming at the same time. I can appreciate a nice body and make sexual remarks in a teasing manner as an act, but in reality I've pretty much got the mentality of a 9 year old when it comes to "making love" and even the parts and processes involved
(i.e. "Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, cooties!!!").

So it's like being able to be attracted to anyone, just minus the sexual attraction.

Though I do prefer more feminine people, and would like a girlfriend (bf is close enough for the moment :3).

Quote from: Felix on February 10, 2013, 08:02:40 PM
When I go to meetings I feel like most of the transguys I hear from are straight. But I think maybe gay transguys are often more vocal because it's a little more confusing and not the cultural default. Also yeah gay people on the internet are more visible than irl.

That's what I've noticed.  I'm the only gay transman (well, homoromantic/panromantic asexual-ish) out of the 5 or so in my local trans* group and the majority transmen I've met elsewhere have been straight.

I think it's easier to see gay transmen online because it's not the majority and minorities of anything often appear the most vocal and therefore making it seem like there are more than there is [such as with the radicals of any religion].

I believe at this point that my transdude son identifies mainly as gay, though his past dating and sexual history might suggest to some that he's straight. But I have to go with what he tells me now, and his story seems pretty credible to me, and he's been fairly open in sharing at least a general overview on how he has reached his current state of identity, and I've tried to be as open as possible with him, apart from whatever difficulties exist because of the parent-child dynamic. 

What I've seen over quite a few years of following online communities is that the population changes over time, and probably also varies depending on how welcoming and supportive a site happens to be. (I've encouraged him to sign on here, but tumblr is more his style, and he's also (rightly) focusing for now on trying to expand his range of contacts in face-to-face settings).

When I first found some of the earliest online trans forums, the population was overwhelmingly MTF, with a few brave FTMs expressing their frustrations that no one else like them was around. Now, similar in some ways to what's been observed lately by the medical pros, FTMs seem to be the majority.

One possible reason for a seeming imbalance could be that straight FTMs tend to have at least some existing support networks in RL that leave them much less time and inclination to spend time on forums?  This was probably also true back when there were very few FTMs of any flavor on such forums.  Just a guess, but one based in what I do know of the FTM generation of my age or older, and their sometimes awkward but generally profound connections to the lesbian community (or tangential to it... I suspect everyone has their own take on that?)

To keep things simple when I do transition,  I will probably just tell people that I'm straight.  I usually identify as a pansexual though but I feel like I'm more into women.

I don't know if it's just me but it seems like the majority of transguys are straight.

I don't know what I am now. I used to think that I was asexual. Now I am not sure and I am dating. She's trans, so that would be straight but perhaps it's a bit pan.

--Jay

Demisexual who leans more towards guys... currently have a girlfriend though.

Quote from: anibioman on February 10, 2013, 07:11:23 PM
im straight as well. i think most straight guys just dont talk about their sexuality on here.

This.

That's just because gay people love da internet and are always on it talking about e v e r y t h i n g.

I wonder if gay transpeople are more likely to join the site than straight transpeople.

I know 8 transguys IRL and only one of them is not straight. He is bisexual.

I'm a bisexual. Well, at least I think I'm that. Considering it's kinda hard for me to imagine myself with a guy but all the possible celebrity crushes etc I have are on men. :D

i think.. im not sure.. i dont know ;_; I'm pretty sure if it wasnt for the fact that i love playing with girls bits so much i'd be gay :3

im straight here too. Yeah i noticed mostly ftms are gay/bi here but i do respect them for who they are. its their life. its cool with me i dont care. i have one ftm friend that gay, its dont bother me at all.

It's also interesting that a large proportion of MtFs appear to be lesbians. I wonder why?

Okay, I'm going to throw this idea out for you to think about (no offense intended, YMMV etc.): it's pretty much accepted that gender identity and sexuality are separate issues that are generated by separate areas of the brain. Right?

So... is it at all possible that the part of the brain that determines gender identity is affected by whatever causes GD; but the part that determines the physical features (i.e. sex) that you'll be attracted to might not be affected by it? This could possibly explain why a lot of transsexuals seem to be attracted to people who present as the opposite of their own birth sex - just like the majority of the population. And why some are attracted to people who are the same as their birth sex. In other words, we're just normal people like anyone else.

Socially speaking, this would make us define ourselves as gay because that is the accepted term for a man attracted to other men, but perhaps it's a bit more complicated than that.

And likewise for MtFs: could some of them have a brain that is 'stereotypically male' in its sexual attraction function but 'stereotypically female' in its gender identity function?

Or perhaps I'm just talking out my backside...

I actually have a question for the gay boys in here (bi boys too!) how do you handle the "appendage" issue talk? Are bio boys that way inclined pretty open minded to our unique situation? I actually feel dumb for asking it, it's just something I've never given any thought to what so ever. Bit thinking about it now.. We are probably the holy grail of sexy times to bisexual guys

Femininity and straightness aren't really opposites, or two things that can't exist in one guy.

Pre-T I considered myself straight. Now, I don't. For me, I am heavily attracted to personality over the physical and I kinda realized that it's possible for a person of any gender to have what I want. Plus, I wasn't having sex or going on dates because nobody seemed okay with me being trans. Figured, bigger potential dating pool might help (it has not).

Quote from: Geek on February 11, 2013, 07:57:40 AM
I actually have a question for the gay boys in here (bi boys too!) how do you handle the "appendage" issue talk? Are bio boys that way inclined pretty open minded to our unique situation? I actually feel dumb for asking it, it's just something I've never given any thought to what so ever. Bit thinking about it now.. We are probably the holy grail of sexy times to bisexual guys

My ex, who knew I was trans, was an a**hole about it.  He never treated me how I wanted to be treated and insisted on me being the woman.  Since I had those bits, to him I wasn't male [I got enough "You can't get rid of these! I love them!" "Or I'll miss your boobs." to fill a book].  He was bisexual, or claimed to be, and was very adverse to me transitioning as that meant he would no longer be dating a "female", but instead would be dating a male.  I generally don't like sex anyway because of having girl bits, but having sex with a guy who refused to see me as male...It just made things worse. 

Edit:  I now refuse to date until part way through my transition, or most of the way.  Maybe all of the way.  I'm not going to be treated like a piece of meat.

I think trans gay guys have much problem than the straight ftm's finding a partner. That's why it seems like most transguys are gay too. I don't know, forgive me if I'm way too wrong  ;D

I think its a mix that we are on a pretty openminded forum when it comes to sexuaety and gender, so people dont feel like they need to hide + the fact that for many comming out as gay/bi is more easy than comming out as trans, not for all but its my experience. I sure had abit problem being bi, but as I where out it was a rather small deal for me cause being trans where like so much more troblesome, many cisguys who come out and havent tried being trans and seamed to make a bigger deal out of it and worry alot. also I seen the thing on many people being gay or bi or whatever on the net for comunetys who seams to have a pretty openminded view for sexualety,

Quote from: Geek on February 11, 2013, 07:57:40 AM
I actually have a question for the gay boys in here (bi boys too!) how do you handle the "appendage" issue talk? Are bio boys that way inclined pretty open minded to our unique situation? I actually feel dumb for asking it, it's just something I've never given any thought to what so ever. Bit thinking about it now.. We are probably the holy grail of sexy times to bisexual guys

the reaction is very diffrent depending on person to person. some guys are cool with it, some guys are idiots, some guys think its pretty hot,

I'm straight (and stealth) in public. Behind closed doors, I'm bi. I'm more instantly turned on by women's bodies, but more emotionally attracted to men. I get men. I can't relate to women or how they think. So, I doubt I could ever have a real connection with one. Anyhow, like I've said elsewhere on here: I'm pretty certain my attraction to men is not innate.

Quote from: Jared on February 11, 2013, 10:12:47 AM
I think trans gay guys have much problem than the straight ftm's finding a partner. That's why it seems like most transguys are gay too. I don't know, forgive me if I'm way too wrong  ;D

you know... Now I feel like a real idiot lol, I'm not even sure how I couldn't have come to that conclusion on my own!

Thanks all of you for answering when I derailed the thread with my lunacy. :)

QuoteEdit:  I now refuse to date until part way through my transition, or most of the way.  Maybe all of the way.  I'm not going to be treated like a piece of meat.

Aaron, this makes me very sad. :( mostly because of the stuff you said before it, but because you feel to keep that part of you hidden so you can emotionally deal with it.


Apologies for format yada yada on phone in bed woke up bad dream. :)

Quote from: Geek on February 11, 2013, 11:18:47 AM

Quote from: Jared on February 11, 2013, 10:12:47 AM
I think trans gay guys have much problem than the straight ftm's finding a partner. That's why it seems like most transguys are gay too. I don't know, forgive me if I'm way too wrong  ;D

you know... Now I feel like a real idiot lol, I'm not even sure how I couldn't have come to that conclusion on my own!

Thanks all of you for answering when I derailed the thread with my lunacy. :)

Funny, you don't appear to be a lunatic.  :laugh:
It's a legit question. Honestly, I don't know. I've never been with a gay guy. Been with bi ones though who didn't mind the use of plastic. Haven't dated much since my partner passed. I've never found myself attracted to a gay dude to my knowledge, so I don't know. Not sure if I'm going to just date women now or what.

Quote from: Geek on February 11, 2013, 07:57:40 AMWe are probably the holy grail of sexy times to bisexual guys

And that makes me feel icky. I'm not in between, a holy grail, or some perfect mixture of body parts for somebody.

Quote from: Nygeel on February 11, 2013, 11:32:29 AM
And that makes me feel icky. I'm not in between, a holy grail, or some perfect mixture of body parts for somebody.

of course not, but it's a big world and it's filled with different types of people, unfortunately there's already "->-bleeped-<-s" and I'm sure it's only the ->-bleeped-<-s that actually have that view. I didn't mean to come across insensitive, honestly.


Edit: more meaning I think bi guys would be more open to it than purely gay guys I guess. I think I'll save my posting until I wake up fully so I don't anger people :3

Quote from: Geek on February 11, 2013, 07:57:40 AMWe are probably the holy grail of sexy times to bisexual guys

I don't think I'd mind it. I'm a holy grail if ever there was one. lol
I'd rather the guy in question be straight though.

Quote from: FTMDiaries on February 11, 2013, 07:08:38 AM
Or perhaps I'm just talking out my backside...

You sound like you're afraid to step on toes, lol. :P

Actually I have thought about it. It's perfectly possible, we don't know everything about how the brain works. GID doesn't even have to mean that every part of your mind is perfectly in sync with the opposite sex, it's a complicated medical condition, not a switch up.

I wouldn't look at Susan's if you wanted to look at an entire demographic, it seems like it's a poor representation. For starters I don't think 90% of all transsexuals are white, and I think that the percentage of people who transitioned later in life is smaller than it may seem.

Quote from: Geek on February 11, 2013, 11:48:24 AM
I'm sure it's only the ->-bleeped-<-s that actually have that view.

I hope not. If a right-handed person says they prefer right-handed scissors, you'd probably say "Duh! You're right-handed." If a gay guy expresses any kind of preference for bits that are compatible with his bits, he risks being labeled a ->-bleeped-<- or a fetishist, maybe even has his sexuality questioned. Occasionally it seems like some folks are a little quick to apply those labels. I'm sure it's appropriate sometimes, of course. A preference is one thing; obsession is another.

I have been with the sum total of 1 cis gay guy and he didn't care about my size (I had a meta). I did ask him if he would have been OK with my former bits, and he said he wasn't sure, but if he liked me enough (like he did) then he didn't think it would be a problem.  His main concern was that I was happy.

But I have met a lot of gay guys recently and there are some for whom size does not matter. Of course, there are others who obsess over size.  There are also those who worship micro dicks for whatever reason, though I'm not sure I want to be the object of someone's fetish.


Jay

Quote from: dalebert on February 11, 2013, 12:18:20 PM

Quote from: Geek on February 11, 2013, 11:48:24 AM
I'm sure it's only the ->-bleeped-<-s that actually have that view.

I hope not. If a right-handed person says they prefer right-handed scissors, you'd probably say "Duh! You're right-handed." If a gay guy expresses any kind of preference for bits that are compatible with his bits, he risks being labeled a ->-bleeped-<- or a fetishist, maybe even has his sexuality questioned. Occasionally it seems like some folks are a little quick to apply those labels. I'm sure it's appropriate sometimes, of course. A preference is one thing; obsession is another.

I agree. I wouldn't care if someone wanted me for my unusual body. I'm more bothered by the 'man-lite' idea. That gets tossed around a lot. You know, people who can't stand cis guys but would date an ftm because he's supposedly 'softer', more womanly, etc. Well, I hate to break it to them, but I've got only the bare minimum of female socialization. In fact, most of my socialization is just a lack of repression from not being raised male.

The only person I'd accept the 'man lite' attitude from would be a straight guy. Let him frame it however he needs to frame it as long as I get that ass.

But yeah, I wouldn't mind if a girl or guy wanted me for my pussy. That'd probably be a real turn on actually.

To be honest, I don't feel like sexuality has much to do with your own gender in the long run(at least for me, personally). I can't figure out if I prefer men or women(though I guess I've been leaning a lot more towards women over the past few months), but I still know I'm a dude. I know a lot more straight dudes that happen to be trans, and I find that they tend to prefer keeping it on the down low once they're passing consistently. The gay trans dudes I know are more active in the 'community' and tend to be more vocal about their status.

Quote from: Nygeel on February 11, 2013, 11:32:29 AM
And that makes me feel icky. I'm not in between, a holy grail, or some perfect mixture of body parts for somebody.

Sorry to jump into the mens forum yet again but I feel I must say something to this.

We all have kinks and preferances. We all expect our lovers to be ok with our own personal baggage, and issues and we expect that our desires will be met by our lovers.
I personaly have few issues being that 'perfect bisexual experiance' for my lover. Because trust me, if someone is going to lay in my bed they are going to have to engage my kinks if they expect me to engage in thier kinks.
It is a two way street ya know.

Also there is the entire issue surrounding shaming someone over their sexual preferances. Myself, I prefer trans* bodies. I find the blend of male and female traits of the trans* body to be very exciting and mind blowing. Why? IDK. It is what it is. I can't just reach into my brain and switch a switch and sudenly not be attracted to trans* bodies.


Again, sorry to stick my nose in this thread two times in the last few days.

Quote from: Zerro on February 11, 2013, 01:40:49 PM
To be honest, I don't feel like sexuality has much to do with your own gender in the long run

I agree. And I also agree with previous posters that trans people are more open to admitting to themselves they're anything but straight. There's more sheep than shepards in the cis population.

Quote from: cynthialee on February 11, 2013, 02:28:51 PM

Myself, I prefer trans* bodies. I find the blend of male and female traits of the trans* body to be very exciting and mind blowing. Why? IDK. It is what it is. I can't just reach into my brain and switch a switch and sudenly not be attracted to trans* bodies.

Well, somebody's got to want us. I actually think I'd be more turned off by someone who needs 'rooster' but 'wuvs me anyway'. Probably cause I've had rooster. And uh... I don't want someone dreaming about cockle-doodle-doo in bed with me. 

Quote
Again, sorry to stick my nose in this thread two times in the last few days.

You're more than welcome here. We could use a lady's opinion.

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 11, 2013, 12:33:35 PM

The only person I'd accept the 'man lite' attitude from would be a straight guy. Let him frame it however he needs to frame it as long as I get that ass.

But yeah, I wouldn't mind if a girl or guy wanted me for my pussy. That'd probably be a real turn on actually

Thanks ;) I needed to snort my drink out my nose!! Made me laugh ^^

Quote from: cynthialee on February 11, 2013, 02:28:51 PM
Myself, I prefer trans* bodies. I find the blend of male and female traits of the trans* body to be very exciting and mind blowing. Why? IDK. It is what it is.

And I'm not a blend of male and female traits. That's the problem I have. If you're saying that all trans bodies are that way then you are invalidating my experiences, my expression, and my identity and that's not something I'm okay with. Plus, there are plenty of cisgender people who have "androgynous bodies."

See, my issue is the generalizing of trans bodies being one way when not all are. Saying "I like bodies that I consider androgynous" is slightly better, but it's still labeling a person's body in a way that they might not want.

The only problem with that nygeel is where to draw the line, I'll be well over the top, but if a goat is a goat, it's probably going to be a goat, unless we went the "whole way" (as my cod friends put it) we pretty much do have a little from column a and a little from column b, wether we like it or not :(


Edit: spelling

Quote from: Geek on February 11, 2013, 04:58:42 PM
The only problem with that nygeel is where to draw the line, I'll be well over the top, but if a goat is a goat, it's probably going to be a goat, unless we went the "whole way" (as my cod friends put it) we pretty much do have a little from column a and a little from column b, wether we like it or not :(


Edit: spelling

No.
Here's a link to an article that kind of explains it but does so in regards to race instead of being cis or trans (http://thefatalfeminist.com/2012/02/19/im-intonot-into-insert-race-here-is-racist/)

Quote from: Nygeel on February 11, 2013, 05:24:04 PM

Quote from: Geek on February 11, 2013, 04:58:42 PM
The only problem with that nygeel is where to draw the line, I'll be well over the top, but if a goat is a goat, it's probably going to be a goat, unless we went the "whole way" (as my cod friends put it) we pretty much do have a little from column a and a little from column b, wether we like it or not :(


Edit: spelling

No.
Here's a link to an article that kind of explains it but does so in regards to race instead of being cis or trans (http://thefatalfeminist.com/2012/02/19/im-intonot-into-insert-race-here-is-racist/)

Hmm I'm not into Black dudes. I've been tempted a few times, but yall are just way too masculine for me.  :laugh:
I really like Black girls on the other hand. Also, I prefer Mexicans. Is that racist of me to say? Or be? Cause I'm not doing it to be racist. That's just what I like. I simply don't find most white men as attractive as Latinos. I really don't see it all that different from someone liking blonds over brunettes. I like long black hair and golden brown skin. I don't like tall, hairy men - the majority of whites. Most short, non hairy men with long black hair and golden skin are Latino. I like black hair, big butts and wide hips. Most women who fit these traits are either Black or Latina.

People are going to have preferences.

That would be racism and racial stereotypes.

Quote from: Nygeel on February 11, 2013, 05:39:45 PM
That would be racism and racial stereotypes.

Or generalisation in order to describe preferences.  As long as someone is clear that there may be exceptions to the rule and they're not judging someone before getting to know them then I can't honestly see the problem.  A lot of people are so careful not to offend and be politically correct these days that it causes more bother than it does good.

I'm probably something near demisexual - I can't be bothered to spend energy working it out because it's just not important - but everyone I've been into or with has had dyed hair and poor eyesight.  Does that mean that I'm ableist and think people who don't dye their hair is less worthy or something?  Not at all.

Quote from: Nygeel on February 11, 2013, 05:39:45 PM
That would be racism and racial stereotypes.

LOLOL it's called a preference.
By your logic, saying you like girls and not guys is sexist.
And saying you're not into your own gender is homophobic.
XD

I asked my friends(of color.) what they thought about what you said, and they all think it's just ridiculous and
it's not racist what so ever to prefer an ethnicity over another. They also thought it's funny how most people
that call out ''racism'' about liking one ethnicity over another are actually white.

Just had to say it.

Not-so Fat Admin: We all have preferences. Noting wrong with that.
                              Me, I like tall, white girls, with very dark hair. No idea why.
                             

QuoteLet him frame it however he needs to frame it as long as I get that ass.

You said it comrade.  I don't much care what straight dudes think I am as long as I get to nail them.

Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on February 11, 2013, 12:12:53 PM
You sound like you're afraid to step on toes, lol. :P

You're right. But that's because I have Asperger's, which gives me a permanent case of foot-in-mouth disease. It's hard for me to know if someone will take offense at my words so I have to be super-careful. ;)

Quote from: Nygeel on February 11, 2013, 05:39:45 PM
That would be racism and racial stereotypes.

Not at all - any more than attraction to a particular sex is sexism. We each find certain traits attractive and others unattractive.

We're all entitled to our tastes. Racism is a completely different ball game.

Black guys are too masculine is a racial stereotype, and is racist...this is like racism 101.

...I think my brain hurts now. And I thought having a part of me that is attracted to pretty much everyone yet hates sexual things with a passion was weird lol

Racism has grown into such a large...catch all. And here I thought racism was just hating and purposefully discriminating against solely because they're Mexican/Black/Asian/Irish/ect.

As for the original topic, I don't know but if it moves, tap that.  :P

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 11, 2013, 05:37:09 PM
Hmm I'm not into Black dudes. I've been tempted a few times, but yall are just way too masculine for me.  :laugh:

Quote from: Nygeel on February 11, 2013, 05:54:28 PM
Black guys are too masculine is a racial stereotype, and is racist...this is like racism 101.

I think black guys have big dicks..

OMG I'M SOOO RACIST FOR SAYING THAT! OMG OMG!!
:D

By the way;
It's actually an opinion.
See the part in bold.

Quote from: Frank on February 11, 2013, 06:01:50 PM
Racism has grown into such a large...catch all. And here I thought racism was just hating and purposefully discriminating against solely because they're Mexican/Black/Asian/Irish/ect.

That's what it is.
Some people just enjoy taking things to the over complicated extreme.

Quote from: AlexanderC on February 11, 2013, 05:45:09 PM

Or generalisation in order to describe preferences.  As long as someone is clear that there may be exceptions to the rule and they're not judging someone before getting to know them then I can't honestly see the problem.  A lot of people are so careful not to offend and be politically correct these days that it causes more bother than it does good.

Yep. It's just easier to say 'I like Latinos' than to go into all that. I mean sure, some don't look like that and maybe some people of other races might. Also, the vast majority of Latinos I've been with wanted me because I was white and blond and blue eyed. So, it goes both ways. And there are flat booty-ed Black women out there. And a few white women with nice behinds. But in general, if I want a big booty, I'm looking for a Black chick.
And you know, maybe there's a hot non-masculine black dude out there I haven't met yet. Who knows? But the majority I've met are quite masculine. Which isn't a bad thing. Just not what I'm looking for.

And remember this is just a sexual preference. Not what I feel about people of a certain race in general. But in general, I like dark hair, dark skin, etc. I can't count how many times I've been wanted for being a blond, blue eyed 'wetta' or however it's spelled. So, it's not just whites who prefer looks common to certain races.

Honestly, I think language is becoming too complicated and unwieldy. Why can't we just say what we mean anymore? Why all the qualifiers? We keep going down this ultra PC road and everybody will be afraid to speak at all. Honestly, half the time I'm nervous to post on this board. I don't feel that way on the rest of the forums.

Isn't there danger of crying RACISM about innocuous uses of language when in reality, the quibble here is about specificity ?  Doesn't it trivialize actual, harmful, destructive systemic racism to throw the term around someone who is just talking about their preferences over who they are attracted to?

If we're hung up on language, then maybe we shouldn't obscure the weight of serious, important words that represent forces that have destroyed lives with violence in the course of petty squabbles in an innocent conversation.

I don't think having mere preferences for one type of look or another is necessarily racist. I think it can be depending on the underlying circumstances; like if I liked Asian women because they're mysterious, obedient, and quiet, then yeah, I think that could be racist. But, I think many Arab/Persian/Indian women are beautiful-I love the skin colors, the eye shapes, and yeah... I even think hijab is quite beautiful on many of the women who wear it. But, I have great respect for the various middle-eastern/North African cultures, even tried learning one of the languages, I've read a lot about Islam and the pre-Islamic religions, and I have some friends from the region. I don't think that makes me racist.

On the other side, I am also part Native American (though mostly of Irish descent), and I think there is some insensitivities when some of the native American cultures are fetishized, like Las vegas showgirls going around in tribal headdresses. But, it really doesn't bother me. I've also had people make comments about my "beautiful high cheekbones", and while I think out of anything on my face, it's the cheekbones you like  ??? , I know they don't mean offense and if they like my cheekbones then that's fine with me.

i like my girls curvy and preferably rocking pinup clothing *drool*

i dont think theres wrong with having a preference, i havent been with anyone of any ethnicity really, and thats not to say i wouldnt go there, but i havent met someone i click with that happens to be, that being said, its not a racist thing, its just life, if a person with sexy mocha skin didnt want to bang me cos i was white i wouldnt think it was racist, id just be all like, ok cool, enjoy what ever flavor person you do enjoy sexy times with. people are going to cry out RACIST/ SEXIST / BLAH-IST / WHATEVER just because they can, like its some kind of moral highground, it doesnt make you better than someone else, it just means you met someone you wanted to romance/bang/whatever with and that makes you happy, as long as things are kept respectful im okay with that.

I'm kinda offended that 'lesbian' is in there.

les·bi·an 
Noun
A homosexual woman.

Transmen are not women and therefor cannot be lesbians.
I don't care what kind of special snow flake you are..
A man cannot be a lesbian.

Quote from: Jayr on February 11, 2013, 08:40:06 PM
I'm kinda offended that 'lesbian' is in there.

les·bi·an 
Noun
A homosexual woman.

Transmen are not women and therefor cannot be lesbians.
I don't care what kind of special snow flake you are..
A man cannot be a lesbian.

I agree with you, but some transguys identify as lesbian. It's a...different way of looking at it, I guess.

I am the 2 percent!  :P
At least I think so.

I'm chuckling at the 46% queer...

It's like 46% just threw up their hands and said, you know what, I don't know what this makes me anymore! I'm inclined to agree. The usual labels are hard to apply...

Quote from: ford on February 11, 2013, 08:50:03 PM
I'm chuckling at the 46% queer...

It's like 46% just threw up their hands and said, you know what, I don't know what this makes me anymore! I'm inclined to agree. The usual labels are hard to apply...

Kind of what I did, Ford. Just went yikes, I have no idea!

--Jay

I thought queer was just another term for gay?

I'm straight with bisexual tendencies that really only go so far and I'm married to an asexual dude ... just try and figure that one out ;)

Quote from: Jayr on February 11, 2013, 08:40:06 PM
I'm kinda offended that 'lesbian' is in there.

les·bi·an 
Noun
A homosexual woman.

Transmen are not women and therefor cannot be lesbians.
I don't care what kind of special snow flake you are..
A man cannot be a lesbian.

Maybe if they're a TRANS trans person.
Maybe they're a female who's actually male but is ACTUALLY female.
or maybe they're just stupid.

I am seeing queer used alot to mean that the person is only attracted to LGBT types, fem boys, butch girls, and or trans.

Also I am seeing it used in many cases where bisexual, demisexual, or pansexual would be used by someone else.

I think queer in this case suggests 'outside of heteronormativity'...(whatever heteronormative means in this case haha). Trying to label all these instances sort of blows my mind.

Quote from: ford on February 11, 2013, 09:32:38 PM
Trying to label all these instances sort of blows my mind.

Yeah, I'm with you on that one. I think everyone just wants to have their own special label, only it's becoming a bit of a logistical nightmare!

I believe we're all aware that sexuality is not a choice, so asking why a large number of trans-men are gay seems moot. Who cares? Where I'm from, I'm the minority as a gay transman. I don't look too deeply into it; people are into what they're into.

Quote from: Gene on February 11, 2013, 09:59:32 PM
I believe we're all aware that sexuality is not a choice, so asking why a large number of trans-men are gay seems moot. Who cares? Where I'm from, I'm the minority as a gay transman. I don't look too deeply into it; people are into what they're into.

Oh, for Pete's sake--stop being so freaking reasonable. :P

P.S. I have an FTM friend who, the last time he bothered to label himself, was using a combination of terms, including lesbian and bear. And I think queer, but I don't quite remember. I have no idea what his wife thinks...

I think it depends on where you are.  I'm straight.  Pretty much all of my friends who are trans men are straight. 

Quote from: Arch on February 11, 2013, 10:02:13 PM
Oh, for Pete's sake--stop being so freaking reasonable. :P

P.S. I have an FTM friend who, the last time he bothered to label himself, was using a combination of terms, including lesbian and bear. And I think queer, but I don't quite remember. I have no idea what his wife thinks...

My bad. I tend be reasonable most of the time without knowing it.  XD

Lesbearian? This has given me something to think about tonight...

By the way, love the Dr. Horrible reference in your signature. I LOVE that part!

Quote from: insideontheoutside on February 11, 2013, 09:26:10 PM
I thought queer was just another term for gay?

I'm straight with bisexual tendencies that really only go so far and I'm married to an asexual dude ... just try and figure that one out ;)

Well I don't know, I think it could be when whatever you are interested in maybe defies description. My girlfriend is trans but only 2 years in transition and I am pre-T (for a little bit longer), so ... who knows, I give up. I don't think it's really "gay".

--Jay

Quote from: girl you look fierce on February 11, 2013, 08:06:35 PM
From the National Transgender Discrimination Survey, I think it included about 6000 people

{image clipped}

Hope that helps :)

Not sure that does help, since "queer" can mean very different things from individual to individual. I assume for some (like me) it may mean that they both hate labels, and do not wish to be identified as a homophobe -- particularly when part of them wishes they had been born "just gay" and could be done with it. But it's probably much more complicated than that. My son identifies as queer, but the label tells one very little about his identity, or what that word means to him.

By the way, as long as Les Feinberg identifies in part as lesbian, I think that label is going to remain one of the options, even if its a small fraction.  If I find the chart annoying, its that it fails to distinguish between transmen identify as gay male, and those who identify as lesbian... winds up being another confusing data point that I'm left to speculate about when it comes to what it means at all.

I know it can be problematic for some, especially if there are reasons in your life that identifying as lesbian leads to people trying to diminish your "legitimacy" as a transman. OTOH, not every man who chooses to continue identifying or appearing male, yet claims to be lesbian, is necessarily joking, despite the widespread assumptions among many that he is. So, why not allow fellow transmen to identify as lesbian if that's their choice and they have reasons, which can't be identified on a simple pie chart, for having a genuine attachment, either to the label itself or to the lesbian community in general, or to some specific local lesbian circle of friends and lovers?

Could you provide a link to the study itself? Maybe it manages to provide some answers to these questions, especially why some possibly conflicting categories got merged?

I'm straight with bi-sexual tendencies.

oh...

[note: not directed at you, insideontheoutside: i just saw your comment after posting this, and was really just poking a little fun at myself...  :P]

This is an interesting thread. I've always noticed the opposite of the OP, seems like, as others have said, the majority is Straight, which does make sense, at least to me. We are still an animal species and while nature makes mistakes (usually in the way of the LGBTA crowd) she tries really hard to make us a species that will ultimately breed and make more little humans. So because of the fact that we are still an animal, I personally don't find it surprising that the majority is still straight. Though I suppose if I took into account transwoman my theory goes down the drain but anyways....

I myself am personally gay. At least I think I am. I like guy bits and don't find woman very physically attractive. However I think i'm more inclined to be attracted to a woman's personality than a man's (there are a number of men with personalities that I'm attracted too but they are still in the minority). However I personally feel I could not be with another transman, though I might be comfortable being with a transwoman. Aha and I thought figuring out my gender identity was confusing.

Oh and the use of the term queer has always confused me to no end. 

Quote from: =celestica= on February 10, 2013, 09:27:27 PM
That's just because gay people love da internet and are always on it talking about e v e r y t h i n g.

I lol'ed.

Quote from: Gene on February 12, 2013, 09:49:10 PM
By the way, love the Dr. Horrible reference in your signature. I LOVE that part!

I eagerly await the sequel...

90% I don't think so!  :o

I have really the impression it's 50/50 (So, so much that biological people).


I think it's very difficult to determinate sexual preference when we are transsexual but maybee it's just my personnal feeling.

The majority of trans guys I know IRL are either exclusively attracted to women or primarily attracted to women. A few are mostly attracted to men but will sleep with women, too. Very few are attracted to men only. However, I've never done any kind of survey.

It does seem to me that if there's a gender identification portion of the brain that is left of center in trans people, then our sexuality locus might be affected as well--especially if the gender ID was influenced by fetal hormones and not something else.

I just like girls so I'm a straight transguy. Always were, always will be.

Quote from: Arch on February 17, 2013, 05:13:31 PM
The majority of trans guys I know IRL are either exclusively attracted to women or primarily attracted to women. A few are mostly attracted to men but will sleep with women, too. Very few are attracted to men only. However, I've never done any kind of survey.

It does seem to me that if there's a gender identification portion of the brain that is left of center in trans people, then our sexuality locus might be affected as well--especially if the gender ID was influenced by fetal hormones and not something else.

All of the trans guys I know in real life are straight or queer and prefer women.  I feel like the odd man out being gay.


Jay

I am 100% straight.I love woman,always have and always will.I have long before i even knew what being trans was.I let my family put into my head *something was wrong with me,i shouldnt feel that way* but i always felt straight and couldnt understand why or how.So i guess im in that 5% that isnt gay hahaha :D

well since we're just throwing out anecdotal statistics, I'll say that I'm the only gay trans guy out of seven in my support group. I have yet to meet another in real life.

Straight, 100%. I've only ever liked girls, it's been apparent since I was pretty young. I was surprised when I joined here how many gay transguys there are too. I was kinda under the impression most of us are straight. But yeah, minorities always get a voice on the internet, so that's probably why it seems like so many of us are more into dudes.

I'm actually more asexual than anything else. .__.

But whatever stirrings I do have are directed towards women. And I suspect that if I transitioned, I might graduate from asexual to official heterosexual -- a combination of T's libido-increasing effect, and no more embarrassment about having to pretend to be female for the sake of the people I'm dating.

i've met 4 trans guys in my life, and it was sort of half-and-half. two were straight, and the other two were pansexual. it could be my area though, i live in a very accepting place.

i'm personally attracted to just women, haha.

I know about 5 trans guys in real life; 2 of them are a gay couple, one of them is queer and dating a trans woman, one of them is asexual, and the last one's gay. So I'm unusual but not too much so for preferring women, though I'm not straight.

I would also argue that preference changes as you transition. Pre-T I had no interest in females what so ever I found them too be too bitchy and high maintenance and their bits disgusting.

Since I've been on T for 6 months I've developed more an attraction to females but when it comes to the opposite gender I still have a very small window of personalities I find even remotely attractive. Sexually, yeah there's definitely a bit more interest there now than there was but I still prefer men. I think I may swing more Bi with more time on T but right now I'd say I'm 15% interested in women, 85% interest in men, where as pre-T I was 0% women, 100% men.

The other thing is that if you are pre or early medical transition your body is a lot more ambigious. I don't know but as I have been going along I have identified a lot more strongly male than I used to. So saying I was "queer" wasn't really saying I was gay exactly but sort of admitting my ambigious state which I think still exits.

Sure this is all clear as mud. :)

--Jay

Jay,
I think I can see where you're coming from, I myself feel weird describing my interest in women and their interest in me as purely heterosexual, though it's certainly not "lesbian". I know a lot of trans guys would feel insulted if people were into them for the allegedly feminine aspects of their body, but for me I only feel threatened if guys do that (cis or trans, it doesn't matter.) Women are more likely to "get" the whole body image issue thing I think.

Quote from: Marion on February 26, 2013, 03:00:19 PM
Jay,
I think I can see where you're coming from, I myself feel weird describing my interest in women and their interest in me as purely heterosexual, though it's certainly not "lesbian". I know a lot of trans guys would feel insulted if people were into them for the allegedly feminine aspects of their body, but for me I only feel threatened if guys do that (cis or trans, it doesn't matter.) Women are more likely to "get" the whole body image issue thing I think.

I disagree. I've found that women can be just as bad as men -- they just approach it in a different way. Men will treat you like a sex object; women will pressure you into becoming a sex object. Straight women are the worst, because they think their heterosexuality makes it okay to grope you and tell you how ugly you are without make-up.

However, the context for the above is while I'm living as female. I'm not sure how differently people will treat me once I start transitioning.

Not sure which of us Jays (seem to be a few here) you were talking to but I think it was me. My girl friend certainly understands because she is trans. And the ambiguity goes both ways as she is only 2 years in. Also I identified as asexual before so I have changed in some way or other about all this. Queer works for me right now as I don't know what I am aspect I am attracted to and perhaps it is both (and might be vice versa as far as she is concerned).

I think even cis straight people are some mix of attributes so I suppose this is all one more interesting aspect of human sexuality. I think we are just enjoying it and not worrying too much about it, but we have talked about it.

BTW, I know that some women here do NOT identify as trans or mixed in any way. I'm not talking about you'all so relax. I am dating someone who embraces both sides and talks about it.


--Jay (one of the vast numbers of Jays here-- but not in my non-online life)

Quote from: aleon515 on February 26, 2013, 04:31:19 PM
--Jay (one of the vast numbers of Jays here-- but not in my non-online life)

Your new avatar has me thinking of you as Nittyboy. :D

Quote from: =celestica= on February 11, 2013, 09:30:17 PM
Maybe if they're a TRANS trans person.
Maybe they're a female who's actually male but is ACTUALLY female.
or maybe they're just stupid.

I love it.

I'm bisexual, but for ages I thought that if you were trans you had to be straight and therefore I wasn't trans because I knew that I liked guys.

At my trans youth group at least one of the trans guys is gay but I'm pretty sure some of the others are straight. It's as varied as it is with cis guys.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on May 13, 2013, 05:30:52 AM
Hmm, so why is everyone in real life straight but on the internet gay??

Does that mean... the internet is ~fabulous~??

I don't even know any gay PEOPLE IRL lately. :(

Maybe it's easier to come out on the internet? I know that for ages I was seen as a straight, cis girl irl and it was only on the internet that I talked about questioning my gender and came out as bi.

I certainly don't think the majority of transguys are gay, When I was first coming out I could NEVER find any gay transguys, All the guys I hung out with were all Into women and It made me feel... Uncomfortable.

I'm Asexual, A homoromantic asexual. (For those who don't know It's when you aren't sexually attracted to anyone/anything and usually aren't Interested In Intercourse, Blah) There's a wikipedia for that so I don't need to explain the whole thing.

I'm romantically attracted to boys and.. As harsh as It sounds I hardly get along with females. I tend to attract the very rude ones.

Here at Susan's I've been seeing a big variety In sexuality. Where I live, I'm the only Trans* I know of, Unfortunately so I wouldn't be able to judge on the real life part. Online I almost always see straights.

Actually it seems like the majority are asexual to me. This isn't nearly as common in the cis population either. Maybe trans people are just more prone to alternate sexualities. I'm bi btw.

I'm a straight transguy... I don't know many other transmen, but my room mate does.  I'm pretty sure his other (2 or 3) transman friends are gay/bi, but I can't say for certain. 

I am most definitely straight ^^ and I have a beautiful girlfriend whom I would not exchange for the world.

I have a transguy friend at work, though, and he is gay.

I don't really get along with women, either. I also attract the rude ones and the ones who haven't been outright horrible to everyone around them have gotten pregnant and went through some massive mood swings that made them behave horribly to everyone around them.

I'm straight, but out of my 4 transguy friends, 2 are gay and 2 are straight. Interesting odds. I can see why transguys would be more open to alternative lifestyles than our cis counterparts, though. For one, we understand gender in a way that a cisguy couldn't, and two, we already have experience exploring our identities and many cispeople never have to do that to the same depth that we do.

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on May 13, 2013, 07:44:35 AM
Actually it seems like the majority are asexual to me. This isn't nearly as common in the cis population either. Maybe trans people are just more prone to alternate sexualities. I'm bi btw.

Maybe they are labeling themselves as asexual because they do not feel the desire to have sexual relationships because of dysphoria problems.

Wheat: Ah... No I don't think so. Then they would just be celibate. -- I don't think anyone can fake being Asexual or not. That would be extremely hard to do.

Quote
Maybe they are labeling themselves as asexual because they do not feel the desire to have sexual relationships because of dysphoria problems.

This was the reason I thought I was asexual for a long time, right at the start of my trans discovery. I really, really did not have any desire to have sex with guys. The thought of being the one who got, well, penetrated was horrible to me. But then I learned I did have sexual desires with guys, but as a guy, not girl. Geesh, made me feel like a real freak.

I am straight too. I can never connect romantically with a man.

I have a different theory about why so many trans guys "turn" gay.

For most trans-guys, they have craved a male body for many years. And as a result in their minds they find the male form or body attractive. E.g they look at a man's body or muscular form and wish they have a body like that. Once they start T, I think this desire grows substantially as their body changes. Another thing is that, once you are on T you have a much closer relationship with men in general. Like in changing rooms or socially. In addition being on T makes them resist/be jealous of men less. In fact it may make them more open to socialising and being friends with men.

The combination of these things cause a sense of affection that they had never experienced with men before to develop.

Also, don't forget that sexually once you're on T, things are turbo charged. Especially for those who have not had bottom surgery, the natural sexual instincts may still be there, and lead to impulses.

Of course this is just a theory. Every individual is different. Some would have always been bisexual or gay. However my gender specialist once told me that most FTM are heterosexual. I am not sure whether there is any data on this, I think he was just speaking from his own experience with patients.

I've seen mostly straight FTM's here, it seems. While I'm bi, I MUCH prefer the men. ;P

I've always been bi, and I've always known that. Shared many experimental moments as a child with friends of both genders, and came to the conclusion that I liked both. :D I was definitely big into boobs as a child, though, and was even lesbian for a while in high school, where I felt absolutely no attraction to men. So turning out with these preferences was certainly surprising.

I think even more than the sexual deviancy of the love between two men (because let's face it, I'm a total pervert  >:-)), I simply prefer men just because I find women to be too hormonal and unbalanced for my particular likes. Hate to say it, but that's the reason I prefer to not date women. I have enough trouble being around one of my female friends throughout her entire monthly cycle, and dating them just always drove me straight into drama I'll never have the energy to deal with. =_=

The only girl I've ever fallen head-over-heels for was a total tomboy, and I loved her even more for it. She was the perfect dose of female for me. I met her at a party one night, spent the entire evening talking to her (and making out with her when she got drunk enough, haha), and never saw her again. But I still manage to think about her all the time, and use her name as my password onto the computer. She's the only girl I've ever met who I could see being in a relationship with, so I think she set the bar too high for any other women I might meet in the future.

Also, my MTF friend used to think she was straight, until she got adventurous with a female friend of hers one night. It took her a while before she became so open about her new sexual feelings towards women. So maybe that's just how everyone is, trans or not, and most people just haven't had an experience yet that would change their minds.

I'm not entirely sure about my sexual orientation yet, because I do find men attractive and good looking, but lately I figured out that's not quite on the 'sexual' aspect, while that is a lot more with girls.
I think I'm straight when it comes to sex and sexual attraction (also; penis-vagina sex scares the living sh*t out of me), but bi when it comes to 'romance' and interaction. If that makes sense. (I've always had about an equal amount male and female friends as well)

I am straight online and offline.as i was *finding myself* and before i transitioned,i would say i was more bi curious but i cant say that now.

@Erin: Take It from my point of view. I'm Asexual, I don't, I can't and I won't see anyone In a sexual way.

I'm attracted to men, Romantically and Physically. -- I still think women are pretty but not attractive to me.

Straight guys see other men and think "He's pretty good looking." Just as straight women do.

If you can't quite see anyone In a sexual way, Look at their personality. That should tell you more In-depth.

i'm  1000% straight and all the tg guys i knows are straight too so i dont think so that the majoruty are gays thats not true..

You know BlackBird, I considered being Asexual a few times. I'm still not completely sure whether I am or not...
Maybe I just have a lower sex drive than usual (though since accepting myself as trans it has increased quite a bit), I don't know. Until now I really never thought that much about stuff like sexuality and gender, it was just what it was, but I had no idea WHAT it was, lol.

@Erin: Ha.. Well. Saying that has just proved that you can't be. You said your sex drive as Increased a little.

Asexuals have no sex drive. None, Not at all, Nothing. You're either Asexual or your not though, It's something you're born with. It's something to do with the brain signals and blah.. Whatever I learnt.

Being Asexual Isn't the best thing In the world. Of course, We never feel a need for anything or any urges but, It's very hard to find a partner that would deal with having a non-sexual relationship.

On top of that, People seem to think we're aliens. You constantly get told things like.. "You haven't met the right person yet." and all kinds. It gets very very Irritating.

It's over-all more bad than It Is good In the world of today. Oh well. :P Hope I gave you a good example here.

(Note: I've seen people call you Erin but I don't know what to call you? Erin or Erik? I'm not sure, Sorry! Please let me know.)

Ahh, okay. It has always been a bit hard for me to know, because I never had a boy or girlfriend, nor do I have any idea to get one in a non-extremely-awkward way, lol. :s
But I DO feel like I have a desire for intimate contact (not sure about actual sex, but french kissing and such should be fine. But yeah, then again is the subject of 'having sex' rather odd for a transperson in general, 'cause it just feels 'wrong' to have vaginal sex, if that makes sense)
But yeah, I suppose I'm not asexual just... sexually awkward, lol.

I can imagine it being hard, especially in this very 'sexual' world. Other people can hardly imagine that asexuals can even EXIST, they view them as freaks or aliens, lol. :-\
And how about getting a relationship with another asexual person? Then it would be much harder to find someone who 'fits' with you though, hmm... :(

You may call me Erin if you like, but my actual name is Erik. I'm fine with variations like Eric too, though. ;)

Quote from: BlackBird on May 16, 2013, 04:30:41 AM
@Erin: Ha.. Well. Saying that has just proved that you can't be. You said your sex drive as Increased a little.

Asexuals have no sex drive. None, Not at all, Nothing. You're either Asexual or your not though, It's something you're born with. It's something to do with the brain signals and blah.. Whatever I learnt.

Being Asexual Isn't the best thing In the world. Of course, We never feel a need for anything or any urges but, It's very hard to find a partner that would deal with having a non-sexual relationship.

On top of that, People seem to think we're aliens. You constantly get told things like.. "You haven't met the right person yet." and all kinds. It gets very very Irritating.

It's over-all more bad than It Is good In the world of today. Oh well. :P Hope I gave you a good example here.

(Note: I've seen people call you Erin but I don't know what to call you? Erin or Erik? I'm not sure, Sorry! Please let me know.)

I'm not saying that you're not asexual or anything like that, the way you feel is how you feel and I'm not going to try and change that, but some asexuals do have libido, so that statement isn't quite correct.  As far as I'm aware asexual is more of not finding anyone attractive in a sexual manner rather than just not having the drive for it.

AVENwiki is a pretty good resource as long as you take the time to get your head splitting up the different types of attraction (romantic/physical, primary/secondary).
http://www.asexuality.org/wiki/index.php?title=Asexuality (http://www.asexuality.org/wiki/index.php?title=Asexuality)

And if you think that asexuals' get a bad rep, demisexual people don't get seen by the majority of society in a much better light because they think we're just being prudish or so fussy we have to have a special word and category for ourselves.  I've never mentioned the word to anyone in my life except my ex, and described it to my girlfriend without using the terminology for that reason, but I don't like labels anyway.  Makes it pretty hard to pretend to be a "lesbian" when you never notice any attractive girls :P

Hmm, thanks for the link.
It's really difficult though, I actually... just don't know.
How am I supposed to know whether I'm sexual or not, if I've never BEEN sexual? Then I don't know whether it 'clicks' right? Maybe when I would get a girlfriend I would end up being just normally sexual and thinking "What have I missed!?" lol.
I just find the thought of sexual activities with someone else kind of awkward, but it's not that I don't feel attracted to people, or understand how pleasurable it can be, I just find it weird to have sex with someone, I feel like I'm... really prudish or something, while I was never raised that way. But I always told myself that once I got 'through' that 'prude' barrier I would actually like it, etc.

Gah, I just have no idea...

@Erik

I've always had a VERY strong sex drive (except when I had a bad experience with birth control pills a few years back), so it's hard for me to wrap my mind around someone so put-off by the idea of sex in that aspect. xD BUT, I do understand your confusion as far as preference, and I've gotta say, just don't put too much thought into it. Sometimes it just takes finding the right someone to open your mind up.

I also believe EVERYONE is pansexual, for the right person (not sure if there's a different term for that), whether they're willing to admit it or not. I have a friend who has always been straight, started dating a guy online, and when she found out it was actually a girl pretending to be a guy, she decided she still had feelings for this person, and wasn't going to let gender preferences get in the way of anything (which is huge for her, because she's not attracted to vag at all). And sure, maybe it would have felt less right if she'd engaged in sexual activity with this person, but that's just something we all have to wait and find out. I don't think things are as black and white as "straight" and "gay", and because of that, some people (especially those not sexually active) will have a harder time learning about their preferences than others.

Just keep in mind that when it's right, it will feel right. If it doesn't feel right, don't feel pressured by anyone. Also, if you're ok with the idea of sexy kissing, it's probably just that you need to start there and build your way up. If you take yourself slowly, you'll probably find that the more "active" you become (in any sense of the word, be it directly sexual or not), the more you'll want to become active in other ways as well. Like waking up your sexuality, perhaps. It's just hibernating right now. Don't do anything to try to move the calender forward. Spring will come on its own.

@Alexander: I meant Sex drive towards people dude..

@Erik: My lovely boyfriend Is Asexual. ^_^

Quote from: BlackBird on May 16, 2013, 04:24:50 PM
@Alexander: I meant Sex drive towards people dude..

Sorry if I misinterpretted you, I thought you were saying that all asexual people have no libido at all.  A bit of clarification and information can't hurt either way though, right?

i do meet people some times who label themselves asexual not because they lack sexual attraction to people, but because they for other reasons don't want to have sexual relations with anyone. one girl i talked to had been a victim of incest for years, and would flat out reject any advances because the way guys tend to hit on her triggers negative feelings in her, but she was still open to doing things with with someone who could treat her right. i'm pretty sure body dysphoria and other uncertainties could make people label themselves asexual as well.

i'm pansexual and not really transsexual, by the way. celibate for... 6 years? because i'm struggling to find someone who seems possibly able to deal with me, not because i'm asexual

@Alexander: Some don't at all, Like myself. Most don't but some do but It's not towards people.

@Taka: I really don't think they should label themselves as Asexual though.. It makes dating for the actual asexuals pretty hard. :/ But yes, I do see that sometimes.

Quote from: BlackBird on May 16, 2013, 04:30:41 AM
@Erin: Asexuals have no sex drive. None, Not at all, Nothing.

The so-called experts generally don't define it quite so rigidly.

My general experience with asexual individuals has ranged from, "I don't like the physical/sexual aspects of a relationship." to "I enjoy sex I just don't feel driven to have it." For some asexuals it's also mental too, they don't really get any pleasure from sex physically, but find it mentally exhilarating, making them more inclined to be an 'observer' in a sexual situation.  I think asexual should be thought of as a broad term that defines those who feel less inclined, than your average person, to have sex. Whether that means they never want to have sex or simply don't feel inclined to ever initiate it, but don't mind having it with their loved one.

Right now I'm a panromantic demisexual.  haha pandemi.  Some people's attractions have changed with T, so I may not always be that, but I'm just not really interested in genitals or sexual characteristics.  I'm interested in someone I can connect with and that could be any gender.

Oh, and even though I'm demisexual I have a fairly high sex drive.  I'm just not sexually attracted to a person until I have made that connection with them.  The better of a connection I have with them, the more sexually attractive they become to me.  I obviously can go have sex with anyone, and may get pleasure out of it, but in my experience, it's not even worth it.  I have no desire to have sex with them, so why bother?  The only time in my life I did that, it was because I was feeling useless... I didn't enjoy it at all, it was just kind of like a drug... I'd rather get off by myself or not at all than with someone I don't have the connection with.  I kind of wish that I was someone who enjoyed that, though.  I really miss having sex with my ex.

Most transguys I know are straight. I think the link comes in if one goes on t, I've heard some guys go from straight pre t to more open minded on t. So they begin to be attracted to other guys, but most are afraid to admit it. I'm sure its partly society, their environment, and them not feeling comfortable with the "confusion". But like I said most transguys I've known are straight, though I've known a few who identified as straight but were down low pansexual. I feel like non normative individuals are more out there and voice themselves louder than normative people.

I'm a transguy and I am very gay. Not in an effeminate way, but in an experimental skater boy sort of way. People meeting me can tell that I am gay or at least are not surprised to hear it, and I have tats/piercings which I have found many of those people are more sexually open or adventurous (already going against the predominant culture, I suppose). I've even found that a lot of guys who claim to be straight (tentative bisexuals, I would presume) are attracted to me, even if they say they wouldn't ever want to do anything with a guy, a lot of them acknowledge me as sexy.

I think that more transguys are straight than gay, but that having such a strong affinity for and identification with masculinity would lead many of us to be adoring of the male body as well as traits.

Personally, I have some attraction to females in porn, but I am not really interested in them romantically at all (no crushes) and aside from curiosity about what it would be like to have a sexual experience with my enhanced genitals, I don't really have interest in anyone who isn't a guy.

Some of us also have enough emotional baggage to feel discomfort with women on such an intimate level, especially those who maybe got labelled as 'lesbian' either due to attraction to women or to a masculine style before transitioning. I remember getting called that before I transitioned and being incensed! Not only was I NOT into women, I was also not female-identified!

I think Testosterone has made me more open minded. Before T i was NOT attracted to men at all. I didn't want them touching me. I didn't think of them sexually. nothing. but since T. i am into men now. and i constantly think about them sexually. I would be open to even dating a guy. kinda weird huh

Nyri, I think I'm panromantic demisexual too, you see...
Since I don't have a total detest of sex, or totally lack a sex drive, but I can't just have a 'one night stand'. I must really know a person, be 'compatible' emotionally, and interest-wise. Regardless of gender, gender identity or anything. As 'sex' as in the actual deed isn't THAT important to me. It plays a role, yes, and it distinguishes a love relationship from a friend relationship, but it's not everything. I noticed that most teenagers care WAY much about it than I do, to the point of stealing kisses at EVERY moment. And I just would get crazy of that.
And this just 'rings' with me. I never felt like 'really' asexual, but not 'normally' sexual either, and I've always wondered whether I would be les (when sort of accepting myself as a 'girl'), but it didn't quite feel right either. I identified as bi for a LONG time, but this jut fits better, methinks

I'm very straight.

I'm realizing the more my body cleanses itself of those dreaded phytoestrogens I was taking, and the more my natural T levels start to rise again in comparison to my E levels, the more I notice women in a more sexual way. I'm not sure if my sexuality in general is becoming hyperactive, if I'm actually shifting more towards liking women (I still very much prefer men though), or if my sudden gender realization has just made me less hostile towards women, so I'm able to see them more sexually rather than as "dumb bitches".

Delivered to this townhouse the other day, and there just so happened to be a very curvy chick out front in a strapless bikini top and very short shorts washing her car. Normally I woulda thought, "Lookit this slut," and turned away. But this time I kept my shades on for a minute (not to be a total creeper) and checked her out. Twice (getting out of my car and getting back in).

I know a lot of people say their preferences changed once they started on T, or that they just gained a buttload of libido, so I'm not really sure what's going to happen once I actually start on T myself.

Quote from: D0LL on June 17, 2013, 09:49:29 AM
Normally I woulda thought, "Lookit this slut,"

Hahahhahahahahaha that made me laugh!

I really don't know what my sexuality is. Sometimes I'm into guys, sometimes girls, sometimes both, sometimes neither. It's really confusing :/ But I don't know if I could date a cis guy without being way too jealous.

Quote from: Luke Andrew on June 18, 2013, 04:14:22 AM
I really don't know what my sexuality is. Sometimes I'm into guys, sometimes girls, sometimes both, sometimes neither. It's really confusing :/

I'm the same way! I was thinking things might become clearer after T - that certainly seems to be the case with some guys here.

I think this is an interesting topic. But I think it differs for everyone. I have a friend on T who I spoke with this about before - if T changes your sexual orientation. He reacted in a disgusted way, which if I didn't know him would piss me off, but I just laughed. He loves girls, straight up. Before T, and years before, I was only occasionally attracted to cis guys and never would have admitted it. Then I started realizing it didn't matter who I was attracted to. I guess I consider myself bi now, if anything, but it's not something I really think about. Lately, I've really been digging on boys, but when I meet nice girls I get just as giddy. Being a cancer, maybe my attractions change with the moon phases  :P 

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents; 100% straight. A lot of the transguys I know are more open about their sexuality (in the sense that they'll basically date anyone)
While we're on the topic of who we're interested in.... Ariana Grande and Selena Gomez are my lovers!!! <3

For what it's worth, I've been noticing attractive PEOPLE more often than I ever have. Doesn't seem to matter if they're male or female, if I like the view I let my eyes linger. A few days ago we went to pick up a kitten (yay!) and there was this really fit chick wearing a bikini top and a towel around her waist (modesty I guess) watering her garden. I watched her as we passed, and then looked over at hubs who is straight, and he gave me a knowing look and said 'I saw that.' I've been so adamant about disliking women as a whole for years because they can be vicious back stabbers. It feels incredibly awkward to get caught checking one out.

The point to my ramble is that I still can't think about touching a woman sexually without getting a skin crawling creepy feeling because it's so gross, but I can relax and enjoy the view without having a negative reaction. I think I'm still 100% gay.

To confuse anyone following this thread (or simply to demonstrate how sexual attraction is constantly shifting in this day and age) i've swung back to being pretty much 100% gay again. I can appreciate a woman's body and I hate them less but my sexual desires towards them have entirely gone away and once more returned solely to men.

Personally, I find that I am more attracted to women in general. Being in the "male" role has always been something I have loved.

However, if a guy came along that I clicked with, then I would be open to the idea. There's actually a guy I'm talking to now (who happens to be trans as well) that I find absolutely adorable/amazing. I try to avoid labels when it comes to sexuality, but that's just me.

I consider myself to be straight. I'd say I'm attracted to men about 10% of the time. The chances of me dating a guy are slim to none though. Guys for me are more a one night stand type thing. There's only one guy I've thought of dating since I've been out and passing. Women are all around far more appealing and easier to be around.
However, I like some "girly music", sewing and some other things that have made people think I'm gay. I'm just queer. (shrugs) I'm not a man's man.

Quote from: D0LL on May 16, 2013, 01:29:51 PM
I also believe EVERYONE is pansexual, for the right person (not sure if there's a different term for that), whether they're willing to admit it or not.

Wow. So all of those years I tried to force myself to like girls and really hated every minute of it, all those years of pretending and lying to myself and others, all of those years of lying were actually quite the opposite because I hadn't found the right woman?

I am finally being honest about who I am and what I am--A GAY MAN--and have fully embraced it and no longer feel the need to pretend. I have felt gay for forty-five of my fifty years, from even before I knew what gay was or even what sex was. But I'm really not because I haven't found the right woman?

I wasn't lying to myself after all, but I'm lying to myself now, because I haven't found the right woman?

Sorry, but that's downright insulting. >:(

Just playing the devil's advocate here Arch so bear with me, but D0ll did say 'someone' not woman. I personally would and have infact leaned towards his opinion in the past, just based on my own experiences with my sexuality. I don't know if this is what he meant, but it's how I interpret his opinion; that we, as humans with complex sexuality, have the ability to become attracted to anyone, regardless of the gender of that other person, and in the sense of human nature that's true. Humans ignore the bonding of only males and females (which almost all other animals obey) and have the ability to develop attraction towards either/any sex. I can prove this is true by saying to you "I am gay, my friend is straight and my professor is lesbian." Thereby proving that everyone has the capacity to love anyone.

I don't see it as (and again this is my own opinion) saying that we are all pansexual here in this exact moment, but that at some point (around when we begin to discover sexuality) we are pansexual and at that moment we begin to branch off from pansexuality and hone in more on being straight, or gay, or lesbian, or queer, or bi, or asexual, etc.

However I do find the "whether they're willing to admit it or not" a bit heavy handed as I would argue that such a pansexual state of being, for most people here, has come and gone, whether it was noticed or not and therefore doesn't really need to be 'admitted to'.

Anyways, that might not be what D0ll meant, but it's another way to observe this way of thinking. In my own theory one could interchange the word 'pansexuality' with a state of being a blank slate with regards to sexuality.

Bastian, I appreciate the considered response. But for my entire adult life, I have heard people saying that gay men can be sexually attracted to women if they just find the right one. Or that gay men can be straight if they really want to, or whatever. I know what I like sexually, and it ain't women, despite half a lifetime of pretending otherwise.

The trouble with absolute statements is that it takes only one counterexample to prove them wrong. The trouble with defining other people TO other people (and not privately, to yourself) is that it's no one's place to do so. One problem with making absolute statements about other people's identities is that the one making the statement can always fall back on "You're just not willing to admit it." I call that both extremely presumptuous and a logical fallacy, if you will excuse my non-parallel structure.

I become hellaciously agitated when someone else appears to be trying to define me, and I become almost as upset when people try to define someone else. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Do not, DO NOT presume to define me, especially where my gender and sexuality are concerned. I have fought too long and too hard to assert my male gayness to just lie down and take it when someone wants to tell me I'm something else. My sexuality is a goddamn serious big deal to me, and nobody else gets to tell me what it is. NOBODY.

I should add one more thing: I know that Doll expressed it as a personal opinion and not a statement of fact. That's the only reason I haven't called out the big guns. But I still think that such opinions invite swift censure, and that is what I have done.

I'm asexual. Maybe the homosexual ones just tend to talk more?

This kind of died, huh ^^

Though my response on my own orientation would have changed since last time, unless I'm just forgetting and I already posted about it. Currently I still identify as asexual, but in the romantic sense I am most definitely straight (yay for finding that out one extremely feminine boyfriend and one girlfriend later >.>). Took me long enough to figure out that I really don't like boys that way at all. However, the shaky nervousness I feel around girls lately hints towards a bit of physical attraction coming into play here, intellectually I don't approve of sexual things for whatever reason (find them gross), so I'm hoping my body doesn't suddenly switch sides in the matter and stage a rebellion. Yikes would that suck. 

Right now I feel like I'd be jealous and uncomfortable with cis guys because they'd have the body I'm meant to have, and I struggle with cis girls simply because I've spent so much time forced into all-female environments. I don't have a single clue about my sexuality.

well i've been thinking about the same thing cos this is the only place i get to meet openly trans people and i've noticed the same thing.
i'm straight anyway and i've had feelings for girls ever since i was supposed to have feelings for the opposite sex. but i'm not saying i'm completely neutral in front of cis males. sometimes i do get nervous and all that maybe becos i still have female hormones inside so my body is responding accordingly. but i completely HATE feeling that way and i deny i felt like that immediately after. so i guess that means im straight right?

I am a heterosexual male. I never have found my self attracted to males in any way, I've never had a crush. I've never had or desired a boyfriend, I've never entertained the thought of having anything more then a friendship ( a non "with benefits" one) to a male identified person. For me psychical attraction has to be there . I don't mean that to be shallow or anything. Looks are not my number one make or break deal for a relationship. But I find it to be a factor in a LTR all the same. Just my 2 pesos

I think maybe transmen are often more open to fluidity in their sexuality than cismen would be. But I don't think gay guys are in the majority. I personally am pansexual but I have a preference for masculinity.

As a gay man myself, this sounds nice because it would mean a bigger dating pool, but that's just wishful thinking. Clearly it's not the case.

I'm a straight transguy  ;D

I'm straight but I don't go around women my age at all. I only talk to older women because I'm not attracted to them.

Yeah, I'm pansexual too (or actually demisexual (AKA: I need to get to know someone and like them as a person before I can be attracted to them. Weird, I know, but I only know for a short time that there's a NAME for what I'm feeling, lol!) pan... romantic? I guess)
But weirdly enough my 'main reference' can vary a bit from time to time. Some weeks/days I'm almost exclusively attracted to women, while other days my attraction mainly goes out to men. Maybe it will stabilise once on T, I dunno...

Something which popped in my mind, but sorta offtopic; I've always found the term "transsexual" pretty weird, lol. As it has nothing to do with sexuality. It almost sounds like you're only attracted to transgender people, LOL! XD

Quote from: Alice Danielle on September 01, 2013, 03:32:06 AM
That is a confusing statement.

I won't go around girls I'm attracted to because I'll accidentally flirt with them and they'll get offended and won't talk to me anymore or look at me like I'm weird and distance their selves from me . The only girl that didn't do that was my ex. So these days I just avoid people entirely.

WHAT??? Are you serious??? I thought that 80-90% of FTMs were straight!!!  :o :o :o

I mean, i have met so many straight FTMs online (i have never met any in real life but then again i have never met any gay FTMs in real life too, lol :D ). I thought that being a FTM and gay was relatively rare, something like 5-15% of all FTMs. This is the same with cis-males. Scientists say that 5-15% of cis-male population is gay but they can never find the exact numbers of course.

I would love to talk to other GAY FTMs!!! I just wanna talk to someone who can understand the way i feel, this is to have a friend who will understand what's it's like to be a FTM and gay. Because in my opinion this is so much harder than being a FTM and straight.

If you are a FTM and into girls, once you transition, the road is open for you. But if you are a FTM and gay, once you transition the road is... well, not exactly closed but much more narrowed for you. You will be outside of the society's norms and preferences again. You will never be "normal". You are finally a guy but you are gay too. And this automatically puts you in a funny situation. You will never be seen as "normal" in the society (it depends on the country you live in, but in my country i will never be normal to their standards).

Well i  hope to hear from you gay guys!

I think it depends on where you are...I've met circles where it seems like all the guys are gay, and then circles where it seems like all the guys are straight. I have always wondered how they manage to be so segregated at times lol.

Quote from: JaredLeBlanc on September 02, 2013, 01:45:36 PM
WHAT??? Are you serious??? I thought that 80-90% of FTMs were straight!!!  :o :o :o

I mean, i have met so many straight FTMs online (i have never met any in real life but then again i have never met any gay FTMs in real life too, lol :D ). I thought that being a FTM and gay was relatively rare, something like 5-15% of all FTMs. This is the same with cis-males. Scientists say that 5-15% of cis-male population is gay but they can never find the exact numbers of course.

I would love to talk to other GAY FTMs!!! I just wanna talk to someone who can understand the way i feel, this is to have a friend who will understand what's it's like to be a FTM and gay. Because in my opinion this is so much harder than being a FTM and straight.

If you are a FTM and into girls, once you transition, the road is open for you. But if you are a FTM and gay, once you transition the road is... well, not exactly closed but much more narrowed for you. You will be outside of the society's norms and preferences again. You will never be "normal". You are finally a guy but you are gay too. And this automatically puts you in a funny situation. You will never be seen as "normal" in the society (it depends on the country you live in, but in my country i will never be normal to their standards).

Well i  hope to hear from you gay guys!

As a straight ftm who loves the ladies  ;) I have to disagree, You have no idea how many grls told me their strickly dickly, Matter of fact thats the only reason Ive been rejected because I'm lacking parts, It is hard as hell to get a girlfriend and I speak from experience, And most girls have told they would like me if I had a dick, Bottom line is no one is gonna see ftms and mtfs as normal, Again I speak from experience

Quote from: Brandon on September 02, 2013, 07:10:52 PM


As a straight ftm who loves the ladies  ;) I have to disagree, You have no idea how many grls told me their strickly dickly, Matter of fact thats the only reason Ive been rejected because I'm lacking parts, It is hard as hell to get a girlfriend and I speak from experience, And most girls have told they would like me if I had a dick, Bottom line is no one is gonna see ftms and mtfs as normal, Again I speak from experience

I think it depends on who you're talking to. I DO have a cis girlfriend who has only been with cis dudes before me and she sees me completely as male DESPITE the face that there is no penis. I know many other dudes in the same situation as me or have been at one time. Not all women will not see us as "normal". That's a gross generalization.

Quote from: Darrin Scott on September 02, 2013, 08:01:48 PM
I think it depends on who you're talking to. I DO have a cis girlfriend who has only been with cis dudes before me and she sees me completely as male DESPITE the face that there is no penis. I know many other dudes in the same situation as me or have been at one time. Not all women will not see us as "normal". That's a gross generalization.

Well then tell that to all the girls who have rejected me soley because I don't ave something dangling between my legs

Quote from: Alice Danielle on September 03, 2013, 02:21:15 PM
Brandon, its the "all" and "no one"  and other exaggerated statements that you are making that are being disagreed with.  Nobody said that all or even most or even 10% of girls will see you as normal, just that not all girls will not see you as normal.

This.

Brandon, to say that ALL girls won't see you as normal is an exaggerated statement. That has not been my experience and other trans guys wil tell you the same thing. Change who you talk to.

Quote from: Alice Danielle on September 03, 2013, 02:21:15 PM
Brandon, its the "all" and "no one"  and other exaggerated statements that you are making that are being disagreed with.  Nobody said that all or even most or even 10% of girls will see you as normal, just that not all girls will not see you as normal.

Yea well its getting hard to believe

Quote from: Darrin Scott on September 03, 2013, 02:45:43 PM
This.

Brandon, to say that ALL girls won't see you as normal is an exaggerated statement. That has not been my experience and other trans guys wil tell you the same thing. Change who you talk to.

Thats the problem I don't talk to girls like relationship wise because I always get rejected because I don't have a dick, Know because thats the only reason I get rejected by girls I believe that it will happen know, Its like the fact that Ive been called ugly all my damn life know I believe it even if a cute girl says Im cute

All my girlfriends/ relationships/onenight stands have been cis girls.( as far as I know) And I mean not to say that some of them didn't make it (5% or less) because I wasn't a bio dude. But I mean if that is all a woman cares about then is she really worth having? My girl now has been exclusively with bio men before me but is not complaining in the bed room ( if you get my drift with out being too graphic) there are objects that make up for not having the original plumbing. Objects that can stay hard for hours ( wink wink nudge nudge) . Yeah not having Penis sucks sometimes but that shouldn't be the defining factor in a relationship IMO. And in my experience it hardly ever is.

Quote from: thatboyfresh on September 03, 2013, 04:01:04 PM
All my girlfriends/ relationships/onenight stands have been cis girls.( as far as I know) And I mean not to say that some of them didn't make it (5% or less) because I wasn't a bio dude. But I mean if that is all a woman cares about then is she really worth having? My girl now has been exclusively with bio men before me but is not complaining in the bed room ( if you get my drift with out being too graphic) there are objects that make up for not having the original plumbing. Objects that can stay hard for hours ( wink wink nudge nudge) . Yeah not having Penis sucks sometimes but that shouldn't be the defining factor in a relationship IMO. And in my experience it hardly ever is.

Ok yea but I want a real one not a fake one, Something thats attached to me, No offence to people who use straps or and type of pack and plays, But what am I gonna feel with that nothing, Not trying to be real graphic but I want to be able to feel her durning intercourse, Shes getting all the pleasure and Im not, Its not the real hing going in her its fake, And I will never be able to procreate

Quote from: Brandon on September 03, 2013, 04:09:54 PM

Ok yea but I want a real one not a fake one, Something thats attached to me, No offence to people who use straps or and type of pack and plays, But what am I gonna feel with that nothing, Not trying to be real graphic but I want to be able to feel her durning intercourse, Shes getting all the pleasure and Im not, Its not the real hing going in her its fake, And I will never be able to procreate

I think you should take a while to read all the options out there to trans guys. There are medical surgeries and procedures to make having a penis possible . One that is attached and has feelings and can be used for intercourse. I suggest you google it. Also there are ways to procreate as well. Even if it isn't with male produced sperm. If it is something that is really important to you. Look it up as well.

Quote from: thatboyfresh on September 03, 2013, 04:33:39 PM
I think you should take a while to read all the options out there to trans guys. There are medical surgeries and procedures to make having a penis possible . One that is attached and has feelings and can be used for intercourse. I suggest you google it. Also there are ways to procreate as well. Even if it isn't with male produced sperm. If it is something that is really important to you. Look it up as well.

I already looked at the surgery options, They really don't grab my interest, And I want my own biological kids, I'd like to see my wife on day give birth, Its so much better than adopting, And I don't want anybody elses sperm going into my girlfriend, We have a long way to go before the perfct it,  And what I ment was I wish I was born with one instead of having o go through the ->-bleeped-<- im going through know to get one

Quote from: Brandon on September 03, 2013, 04:09:54 PM

Ok yea but I want a real one not a fake one, Something thats attached to me, No offence to people who use straps or and type of pack and plays, But what am I gonna feel with that nothing, Not trying to be real graphic but I want to be able to feel her durning intercourse, Shes getting all the pleasure and Im not, Its not the real hing going in her its fake, And I will never be able to procreate

if you're concerned about feeling it during sex, i'd consider getting the gen 2 peecock if you have the money saved up. i have it and it actually works, it's amazing. many cis guys can't procreate either. but scientists are experimenting with procedures that turn bone marrow into sperm, so trans guy and cis girl couples can have biological children. if you want you should look it up, it's really interesting.

I mean feel my whole penis go in her Ive heard of the gen 2 but it does not match my skin tone, As a black guy its hard to find my tone because we have alot of different skin tones, And again I know theirs erection rod but again its not mines sex would just make me to uncomfortable

I can't speak for your own dysphoria, but trust me, you can feel sex with a strap-on.  Don't write it off just because you don't think it would feel right.  I don't think I'd grinned so much in my life before (and then promptly fell asleep but... yeah).

Quote from: AlexanderC on September 03, 2013, 06:21:46 PM
I can't speak for your own dysphoria, but trust me, you can feel sex with a strap-on.  Don't write it off just because you don't think it would feel right.  I don't think I'd grinned so much in my life before (and then promptly fell asleep but... yeah).

Ita not how I want it to feel though

Brandon - you seem so bent on shooting down every option with all your posts.

You can't change the fact you don't have a perfect, biological male downstairs; 100% that is true. Who cares what some random girls in your HS think about that? They won't matter as soon as you graduate. People with actual experience dating cis women are telling you that it is possible. I could link to you 10 videos of ftm guys interviewing their hot girlfriends about what it is like to date a trans guy.

Branch out. Find a local GLBT resource in your area and meet those people.

Focus like a laser on a goal to distract yourself. You said you are working to get on T? I would talk to a therapist as part of this process. You seem to have so much anger and self hatred built up inside of you - it will get better, I promise. You don't need to tackle every problem about this all at once - In fact, you can't.

Quote from: Brandon on September 03, 2013, 04:39:15 PM
I already looked at the surgery options, They really don't grab my interest, And I want my own biological kids, I'd like to see my wife on day give birth, Its so much better than adopting, And I don't want anybody elses sperm going into my girlfriend, We have a long way to go before the perfct it,  And what I ment was I wish I was born with one instead of having o go through the ->-bleeped-<- im going through know to get one

I am pretty sure almost every single trans guy feels this way. ( Though I in no way speak for anyone but myself) That they wish they were born with the right parts. But there are even Cis Males who ,
-Can't have their own Biological kids
-Do not have/ or have deformed genitals preventing intercourse from birth defects or other accidents . I know this does not make your problems any less real to you. Their is a realization that you can not go back in time and change the way you were born. All you can do is move forward and build on what you have now. Also you said you want something real, attached to you and you can use as a fully functioning penis. Curious to know how does phalloplasty not grab you're interest?

Quote from: thatboyfresh on September 03, 2013, 06:31:19 PM
I am pretty sure almost every single trans guy feels this way. ( Though I in no way speak for anyone but myself) That they wish they were born with the right parts. But there are even Cis Males who ,
-Can't have their own Biological kids
-Do not have/ or have deformed genitals preventing intercourse from birth defects or other accidents . I know this does not make your problems any less real to you. Their is a realization that you can not go back in time and change the way you were born. All you can do is move forward and build on what you have now. Also you said you want something real, attached to you and you can use as a fully functioning penis. Curious to know how does phalloplasty not grab you're interest?

Phalloplasty doesnt grab my interest because It doesnt look that real, I cant cum, And I cant get my own erections, Thats why,I don't like it

Quote from: spacerace on September 03, 2013, 06:30:50 PM
Brandon - you seem so bent on shooting down every option with all your posts.

You can't change the fact you don't have a perfect, biological male downstairs; 100% that is true. Who cares what some random girls in your HS think about that? They won't matter as soon as you graduate. People with actual experience dating cis women are telling you that it is possible. I could link to you 10 videos of ftm guys interviewing their hot girlfriends about what it is like to date a trans guy.

Branch out. Find a local GLBT resource in your area and meet those people.

Focus like a laser on a goal to distract yourself. You said you are working to get on T? I would talk to a therapist as part of this process. You seem to have so much anger and self hatred built up inside of you - it will get better, I promise. You don't need to tackle every problem about this all at once - In fact, you can't.

Dude I cant do anything because my mom doesnt support me, Do you not get it im ass out until m older

Quote from: Brandon on September 03, 2013, 08:43:32 PM

Dude I cant do anything because my mom doesnt support me, Do you not get it im ass out until m older

You said this is another thread...

Quote from: Brandon on September 03, 2013, 04:32:41 PM
Im already trying to work to pay for T

That seems like a goal to me.

People keep trying to tell you it will get better - you don't seem open to any option, you just want to be negative. If you want support, we are here to give it - but insulting people's bottom surgery and repeatedly denying a trans guy can have a chance with a cis girl despite all evidence otherwise is not helpful to you or the people trying to give you advice

High school does not matter. Really. I promise. It will end.

Quote from: spacerace on September 03, 2013, 08:47:42 PM

You said this is another thread...

That seems like a goal to me.

People keep trying to tell you it will get better - you don't seem open to any option, you just want to be negative. If you want support, we are here to give it - but insulting people's bottom surgery and repeatedly denying a trans guy can have a chance with a cis girl despite all evidence otherwise is not helpful to you or the people trying to give you advice

High school does not matter. Really. I promise. It will end.

Well you probaly have support, And Im not insulting bottom surgery for ftms just because I think they can do better, You try getting negative stuff constantly thrown at you eventually you start to believe negative

Quote from: spacerace on September 03, 2013, 08:47:42 PM

You said this is another thread...

That seems like a goal to me.

People keep trying to tell you it will get better - you don't seem open to any option, you just want to be negative. If you want support, we are here to give it - but insulting people's bottom surgery and repeatedly denying a trans guy can have a chance with a cis girl despite all evidence otherwise is not helpful to you or the people trying to give you advice

High school does not matter. Really. I promise. It will end.

And highschool matters to me may not to you but it does to me.

It seems like you have some very deep routed ideals on what is and what makes a man. This is not a bad thing but I think your first step before you go for T would to see a gender therapist or counselor. T is not going to make you a man, it wont make you produce semen or be able to have kids or magically have a penis.  What your asking for is not at this time possible. Of course surgeries are only becoming better and more advanced but you have to learn that these things arn't going to just happen. Like I said even though you've been dealt a tough hand those are the only cards you can use. I would do like someone before me posted and get involved in local LGBTQ groups and "branch out" high school is not going to last for the rest of your life. You can't change people's minds. If they decide they want to view you as female there is nothing you can do to force them to think other wise even though it is frustrating . I don't have ANY support of my family. Matter of fact I live across the Country from them and hardly speak to them. I have a baby sister who I haven't even met yet because if it.

Quote from: thatboyfresh on September 03, 2013, 11:29:16 PM
It seems like you have some very deep routed ideals on what is and what makes a man. This is not a bad thing but I think your first step before you go for T would to see a gender therapist or counselor. T is not going to make you a man, it wont make you produce semen or be able to have kids or magically have a penis.  What your asking for is not at this time possible. Of course surgeries are only becoming better and more advanced but you have to learn that these things arn't going to just happen. Like I said even though you've been dealt a tough hand those are the only cards you can use. I would do like someone before me posted and get involved in local LGBTQ groups and "branch out" high school is not going to last for the rest of your life. You can't change people's minds. If they decide they want to view you as female there is nothing you can do to force them to think other wise even though it is frustrating . I don't have ANY support of my family. Matter of fact I live across the Country from them and hardly speak to them. I have a baby sister who I haven't even met yet because if it.


Again I cant see a gender therapist right know, Or go some lgbt thng, What's the point of living theirs no point a all!

Quote from: Brandon on September 03, 2013, 09:15:16 PM

And highschool matters to me may not to you but it does to me.

Hi Brandon,

High school is really important -- you're right. It's a long four years and it has such a deep influence on your personality and what decisions you will make with your life. While going through all of those changes, you spend your time stressing out about your friends and how people treat you, only to get hammered with distracting and annoying schoolwork on the side (and in your case, it seems like at-home trouble, too). You have no idea what will happen later in life. Your feelings don't exist in the future, they exist now. So I feel for you, really I do: you're in a tight spot, things are weighing you down, and it feels like there are no solutions.

To be perfectly honest, you're probably right about the majority of the things you're expressing. I think that's how most people are: they already have their answers, but they come to places like this and somehow end up talking about their problems. Everyone else's natural reaction is to try to solve your problem for you, telling you things that you already know or feel frustrated with. It's even more frustrating to deal with that -- but please try not to get too frustrated, because although the people responding to you don't really know you, they do care about you and mean well.

I wish I had more comforting words for you. I genuinely think you seem to understand what you're going through really well. I get the feeling that you know not ALL girls would reject a guy without dangly bits even if it isn't their preference, but also know that it makes it much more difficult for you to be in that situation and find someone you like; especially so as a teenager, when people haven't had much time to mature their sexuality yet and get their notions out of their system. I also agree with others, things can get better as you get older, but there is a lot of luck involved as well as a whole lot of uncertainty, and the waiting period for happiness to bloom really, really sucks.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I'm heterosexual and really care about my boyfriend having a penis, but I would still date an awesome pre-op trans man. My best friend, who is a cis girl and very intelligent as well as pretty, would also date a pre-op trans man if she really liked him. And why would you date anyone if they weren't awesome or if you didn't really like them? Girls you can date do exist, even if they are a pain to find and you might not meet them for a while -- and for that much, I truly hope fortune smiles upon you sooner than later.

P.S. I really hope you (and any others!) don't mind one of the girls creeping over here and posting. I remembered how alone/sad/bitter I felt during a teenager, too, with a lot of similar feelings, and couldn't help but want to post and hopefully help you feel a little better.

Quote from: Sybil on September 03, 2013, 11:34:48 PM
Hi Brandon,

High school is really important -- you're right. It's a long four years and it has such a deep influence on your personality and what decisions you will make with your life. While going through all of those changes, you spend your time stressing out about your friends and how people treat you, only to get hammered with distracting and annoying schoolwork on the side (and in your case, it seems like at-home trouble, too). You have no idea what will happen later in life. Your feelings don't exist in the future, they exist now. So I feel for you, really I do: you're in a tight spot, things are weighing you down, and it feels like there are no solutions.

To be perfectly honest, you're probably right about the majority of the things you're expressing. I think that's how most people are: they already have their answers, but they come to places like this and somehow end up talking about their problems. Everyone else's natural reaction is to try to solve your problem for you, telling you things that you already know or feel frustrated with. It's even more frustrating to deal with that -- but please try not to get too frustrated, because although the people responding to you don't really know you, they do care about you and mean well.

I wish I had more comforting words for you. I genuinely think you seem to understand what you're going through really well. I get the feeling that you know not ALL girls would reject a guy without dangly bits even if it isn't their preference, but also know that it makes it much more difficult for you to be in that situation and find someone you like; especially so as a teenager, when people haven't had much time to mature their sexuality yet and get their notions out of their system. I also agree with others, things can get better as you get older, but there is a lot of luck involved as well as a whole lot of uncertainty, and the waiting period for happiness to bloom really, really sucks.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I'm heterosexual and really care about my boyfriend having a penis, but I would still date an awesome pre-op trans man. My best friend, who is a cis girl and very intelligent as well as pretty, would also date a pre-op trans man if she really liked him. And why would you date anyone if they weren't awesome or if you didn't really like them? Girls you can date do exist, even if they are a pain to find and you might not meet them for a while -- and for that much, I truly hope fortune smiles upon you sooner than later.

P.S. I really hope you (and any others!) don't mind one of the girls creeping over here and posting. I remembered how alone/sad/bitter I felt during a teenager, too, with a lot of similar feelings, and couldn't help but want to post and hopefully help you feel a little better.

Yea that'strue

Brandon, you got me wrong - what i was saying was that AFTER you transition (meaning after all your surgeries - top and bottom, hormones, etc.) you can be seen as a cis-male in the society and if all of your documents say you are a male then nobody will doubt it. If you are into girls, you can get yourself a cis-female. It's your choice whether or not you want to tell her you are trans. If you want to keep this knowledge to yourself you can do it and she will never know (if both your surgeries are good enough, of course).

But me, and other FTM guys who are gay, we will never be seen as "normal" by the society because we are gay. In most countries, being gay means getting discriminated from time to time, being seen as someone who is "wrong", losing friends and being called all kinds of disgusting names. Probably in the place you live in it's different. But in my country this is the way things are.

So that's what i was trying to say. Even after the surgery, although i am sure i will be happy with myself and finally really feel myself, i know i won't be happy with being gay. I have nothing against gays, it's just that it's so hard to live when you are gay and people hate you just because you are this way.

This is like transferring from one minority to another minority and never belonging to the majority. And this is always hard being a minority, especially in this situation.

Quote from: JaredLeBlanc on September 04, 2013, 09:04:16 AM
Brandon, you got me wrong - what i was saying was that AFTER you transition (meaning after all your surgeries - top and bottom, hormones, etc.) you can be seen as a cis-male in the society and if all of your documents say you are a male then nobody will doubt it. If you are into girls, you can get yourself a cis-female. It's your choice whether or not you want to tell her you are trans. If you want to keep this knowledge to yourself you can do it and she will never know (if both your surgeries are good enough, of course).

But me, and other FTM guys who are gay, we will never be seen as "normal" by the society because we are gay. In most countries, being gay means getting discriminated from time to time, being seen as someone who is "wrong", losing friends and being called all kinds of disgusting names. Probably in the place you live in it's different. But in my country this is the way things are.

So that's what i was trying to say. Even after the surgery, although i am sure i will be happy with myself and finally really feel myself, i know i won't be happy with being gay. I have nothing against gays, it's just that it's so hard to live when you are gay and people hate you just because you are this way.

This is like transferring from one minority to another minority and never belonging to the majority. And this is always hard being a minority, especially in this situation.

Yea it might be harder to be gay and ftm, But Even after hormones and surgery, I still will have to disclose it, But your gay so you wouldnt know how some females talk about ftms, Its really not that easy dude, And surgery is not that good enough to were I wouldnt have to say anything to my gf/wife, You cant speak on something or make that generalization because people in general are getting more cruel again most women have said their strictly dickly even older women, Its really not what it seems and is just as hard as you

Quote from: Brandon on September 04, 2013, 02:37:42 PM

Yea it might be harder to be gay and ftm, But Even after hormones and surgery, I still will have to disclose it, But your gay so you wouldnt know how some females talk about ftms, Its really not that easy dude, And surgery is not that good enough to were I wouldnt have to say anything to my gf/wife, You cant speak on something or make that generalization because people in general are getting more cruel again most women have said their strictly dickly even older women, Its really not what it seems and is just as hard as you

Well, i have heard about some surgeries that were totally perfect and those guys have never said anything to their wives and their wives have never thought something was wrong with those guys... Anyway, i do understand that this is a very small percentage of all FTMs... And most of the guys aren't that lucky.

I am not gonna argue with you what's easier and what's harder. It seems we are facing a lot of difficulties and it doesn't even matter if you are into girls or into guys. The thing is, we have to be ourselves first. And when we are in the right body, we can start dating. Girls or guys.

Quote from: Brandon on September 03, 2013, 09:08:29 PM

Well you probaly have support, And Im not insulting bottom surgery for ftms just because I think they can do better, You try getting negative stuff constantly thrown at you eventually you start to believe negative

I have no support whatsoever - not from friends or family. I have to imagine that what I feel is nothing compared to what it is like to be in HS with no support. When I mentioned support, I meant that you could find it here on the forum if nothing else, especially if you can't get it at home.

Quote from: Brandon on September 03, 2013, 09:15:16 PM

And highschool matters to me may not to you but it does to me.

I said high school does not matter to give you perspective. It feels like your entire world now, but you have to see the bigger picture. Get it over with and get out. My message is just that it gets better, that's all.

Quote from: spacerace on September 04, 2013, 03:10:44 PM
I said high school does not matter to give you perspective. It feels like your entire world now, but you have to see the bigger picture. Get it over with and get out. My message is just that it gets better, that's all.

True words. It feels like forever when you're there, but shortly after you're out, you'll look back and think "how trivial that all was".

Quote from: JaredLeBlanc on September 04, 2013, 02:48:20 PM
Well, i have heard about some surgeries that were totally perfect and those guys have never said anything to their wives and their wives have never thought something was wrong with those guys... Anyway, i do understand that this is a very small percentage of all FTMs... And most of the guys aren't that lucky.

I am not gonna argue with you what's easier and what's harder. It seems we are facing a lot of difficulties and it doesn't even matter if you are into girls or into guys. The thing is, we have to be ourselves first. And when we are in the right body, we can start dating. Girls or guys.

Thats pretty hard to believe, Considering surgerys do not look that realistic not to be rude thats why Im gonna wait,  And thats pretty dumb not to tell you wife your trans

Quote from: dalebert on September 04, 2013, 03:20:07 PM
True words. It feels like forever when you're there, but shortly after you're out, you'll look back and think "how trivial that all was".

No it don't feel like forever, Its jus constanly being dysphoric, Theirs no way not to be

Quote from: spacerace on September 04, 2013, 03:10:44 PM
I have no support whatsoever - not from friends or family. I have to imagine that what I feel is nothing compared to what it is like to be in HS with no support. When I mentioned support, I meant that you could find it here on the forum if nothing else, especially if you can't get it at home.

I said high school does not matter to give you perspective. It feels like your entire world now, but you have to see the bigger picture. Get it over with and get out. My message is just that it gets better, that's all.

Ok........ :-\

Quote from: thatboyfresh on September 03, 2013, 04:01:04 PM
But I mean if that is all a woman cares about then is she really worth having?

This seems like a gross simplification to me. I suppose I'm like some of those women. I do not plan to get involved with a trans man; I like typical homegrown penises with all the bells and whistles. That doesn't mean that it's all I care about, and it doesn't mean that I'm not worth a relationship.

It might look like Brandon is just shooting down every suggestion anyone makes--it wouldn't be the first time someone has done that here--but he obviously has very strong dysphoria and is frustrated as hell. Give him time. I don't think a lot of guys in our position can just decide in fifteen minutes to look on the bright side and do the best they can with what they have now and look forward to the best they can get--which is not good enough for everyone. If they could think that way, they wouldn't have much dysphoria--or maybe any at all--would they? 

Right now, maybe he should do more research about bottom surgery options, but he appears to be in Major Dysphoria Land, he already knows that the surgical options don't get him what he wants, and he knows that he's a long way from having such surgeries. This is not a nice place to be in, as I well know. He also knows that some cis guys don't have typical equipment or fertility either, and that does not help.

It doesn't help me, either. I know that no surgery on earth is going to get me what I want, and I haven't yet made my peace with that--and I've been thinking about bottom surgery for almost twenty years. I suppose one point in my favor is that I don't try to argue with people about the subject because I know that it's pretty pointless. But it's maddening when I express my feelings about how inadequate I think my options are, and then someone comes along and tells me that it's really not so bad, especially when their priorities and mine differ considerably.

We're probably all better off trying to think more positively, but I don't think you'll have much success in trying to force someone to be that way.

Quote from: Arch on September 05, 2013, 01:11:02 AM
It might look like Brandon is just shooting down every suggestion anyone makes--it wouldn't be the first time someone has done that here--but he obviously has very strong dysphoria and is frustrated as hell. Give him time. I don't think a lot of guys in our position can just decide in fifteen minutes to look on the bright side and do the best they can with what they have now and look forward to the best they can get--which is not good enough for everyone. If they could think that way, they wouldn't have much dysphoria--or maybe any at all--would they? 

Right now, maybe he should do more research about bottom surgery options, but he appears to be in Major Dysphoria Land, he already knows that the surgical options don't get him what he wants, and he knows that he's a long way from having such surgeries. This is not a nice place to be in, as I well know. He also knows that some cis guys don't have typical equipment or fertility either, and that does not help.

It doesn't help me, either. I know that no surgery on earth is going to get me what I want, and I haven't yet made my peace with that--and I've been thinking about bottom surgery for almost twenty years. I suppose one point in my favor is that I don't try to argue with people about the subject because I know that it's pretty pointless. But it's maddening when I express my feelings about how inadequate I think my options are, and then someone comes along and tells me that it's really not so bad, especially when their priorities and mine differ considerably.

We're probably all better off trying to think more positively, but I don't think you'll have much success in trying to force someone to be that way.

Thank You for explaining it

Considering that the vast majority of homo and hetero people are to some extent partly bisexual, as studies have revealed, and that females (and not-so-females) are overwhelmingly encouraged to be with men, I think it's not surprising at all that trans guys would be above the statistics in terms of homosexuality. Your standard man who is truly bisexual has a high chance of prioritizing women for a relationship (perhaps to the point of completely excluding men) because he doesn't want to be seen as gay.

The same, although maybe not as strong because of how lesbians are generally accepted better than gays, can happen with women. If men and women attract you equally, but people around you will have a bad attitude towards you if you date a woman, then you're going to be strongly biased to see men.

Since sexuality is partly something that is learned (partly!), having always dated guys will make your would-be bisexual trans guy gay in fact, and maybe even he'd believe he's only into men, because he's always seen only men, so much that women are completely out of his mind.

Now spread that phenomenon not just to perfectly bi guys but on all partly bi guys (that is, the vast majority of guys) whose dysphoria didn't keep them from dating altogether and you're going to have pretty changed numbers compared to the normal average.

You can also add to that dysphoria problems. When you've been expected to be a woman for so long, when everything about being a woman literally disgusts you because of how hard it was thrown in your face... it wouldn't be so surprising if you felt like you're not a woman so much that you want nothing to do with them, and that whatever would have perhaps attracted you in women if you'd had better experiences is just, to you, a sad reminder of what you didn't want on you.

I know for a fact that it took me a while to get rid of my disgust for men and manly things that decreased my respect for men. Heck, if I hadn't recently fallen in love with and gotten to understand a man, I'm pretty sure I'd still have significant remnants of it. I think there'll always be a little something to hurt an emotional scar somewhere, but thanksfully, now I can love him (and, I figure, others) for what he is.

I'm FtM and straight.
I love women in any package they come in.

Quote from: broken. on September 08, 2013, 11:05:17 AM
Just clarifying but.... didn't the study I think you're thinking of claim that the majority of cis women will become aroused at sexual scenes with both genders regardless of reported preference, but that the majority of cis men were, as they reported, not aroused by sexual scenes with just cis men?

Nope, it's a relatively old study, pretty famous, since I've seen it in - I think - my basic psychology class. Also, I think a movie was made out of it. It's a university teacher who did surveys among his students and discovered that nearly everyone was not exclusively into one gender. Then if I remember well the rather casual study was confirmed through more serious and more in-depth studies. Anyway my memory is fuzzy but I think the fact was vastly confirmed and accepted. Something like that. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always been in the assumption that partial bisexuality was rather the norm than the exception.

Quote from: broken. on September 08, 2013, 11:05:17 AM
Really??? Maybe if that doesn't include like, being taken seriously at all..... A lot of elements *cough* of society still think they own female sexuality.

Uhm, dunno, it's just from what I've seen. People tend to find lesbians kissing cute, and gays kissing yucky, if it's going to be only one of them. And visibly gay men tend to not be taken seriously at all by other men unless they're already very established, while lesbian women, well, from what I've seen, are unaffected.

In celebrities, in my province, it was a very long time, years after the adoption of same-sex marriage until a celebrity showed up at a gala with her girlfriend, even though her homosexuality was known (or was it just strongly suspected?), and before she'd come with a male friend. Still fuzzy, but I think it took a couple of women before a man did it.

And uhm, I'm not in a very homophobic place, but I do hear stuff like "->-bleeped-<-!" (once it was directed at me, ahem) occasionally, and casual comments that are slightly homophobic against gays. But lesbians? Nope, honestly, I have never ever heard bad comments. Maybe once a guy said it was a waste, because he found her sexy. Not even sure.

Quote from: A on September 08, 2013, 04:12:04 PM
Nope, it's a relatively old study, pretty famous, since I've seen it in - I think - my basic psychology class. Also, I think a movie was made out of it. It's a university teacher who did surveys among his students and discovered that nearly everyone was not exclusively into one gender. Then if I remember well the rather casual study was confirmed through more serious and more in-depth studies. Anyway my memory is fuzzy but I think the fact was vastly confirmed and accepted. Something like that. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always been in the assumption that partial bisexuality was rather the norm than the exception.
Uhm, dunno, it's just from what I've seen. People tend to find lesbians kissing cute, and gays kissing yucky, if it's going to be only one of them. And visibly gay men tend to not be taken seriously at all by other men unless they're already very established, while lesbian women, well, from what I've seen, are unaffected.

In celebrities, in my province, it was a very long time, years after the adoption of same-sex marriage until a celebrity showed up at a gala with her girlfriend, even though her homosexuality was known (or was it just strongly suspected?), and before she'd come with a male friend. Still fuzzy, but I think it took a couple of women before a man did it.

And uhm, I'm not in a very homophobic place, but I do hear stuff like "->-bleeped-<-!" (once it was directed at me, ahem) occasionally, and casual comments that are slightly homophobic against gays. But lesbians? Nope, honestly, I have never ever heard bad comments. Maybe once a guy said it was a waste, because he found her sexy. Not even sure.

I have to disagree, I know what I like and its definately women, That study was pretty stupid just saying, I love everything about a women especially the curves, And other things without being to explicit

For one, it's most people, not everyone, that I'm saying is partly bisexual. Second, many people do not know and might never do, because conditions will never be so that they meet, say, a man, who will make them fall with their slight attraction to men.

Quote from: A on September 08, 2013, 04:45:27 PM
For one, it's most people, not everyone, that I'm saying is partly bisexual. Second, many people do not know and might never do, because conditions will never be so that they meet, say, a man, who will make them fall with their slight attraction to men.

Again,A fully straight perspn wil not fall in love with the same sex, I believe more women get curious but men tend not to, Ive loved women since 5 yrs old, And you just basically said everyone is bisexual because of that study

Quote from: Alice Danielle on September 08, 2013, 05:38:35 PM
I believe they said bisexuality was the norm and not the exception, not that everyone is bisexual.

No they did not they said no one is fully straight or gay basically

Quote from: A on September 06, 2013, 05:31:58 AM
Considering that the vast majority of homo and hetero people are to some extent partly bisexual, as studies have revealed, and that females (and not-so-females) are overwhelmingly encouraged to be with men, I think it's not surprising at all that trans guys would be above the statistics in terms of homosexuality. Your standard man who is truly bisexual has a high chance of prioritizing women for a relationship (perhaps to the point of completely excluding men) because he doesn't want to be seen as gay.

The same, although maybe not as strong because of how lesbians are generally accepted better than gays, can happen with women. If men and women attract you equally, but people around you will have a bad attitude towards you if you date a woman, then you're going to be strongly biased to see men.

Since sexuality is partly something that is learned (partly!), having always dated guys will make your would-be bisexual trans guy gay in fact, and maybe even he'd believe he's only into men, because he's always seen only men, so much that women are completely out of his mind.

Now spread that phenomenon not just to perfectly bi guys but on all partly bi guys (that is, the vast majority of guys) whose dysphoria didn't keep them from dating altogether and you're going to have pretty changed numbers compared to the normal average.

You can also add to that dysphoria problems. When you've been expected to be a woman for so long, when everything about being a woman literally disgusts you because of how hard it was thrown in your face... it wouldn't be so surprising if you felt like you're not a woman so much that you want nothing to do with them, and that whatever would have perhaps attracted you in women if you'd had better experiences is just, to you, a sad reminder of what you didn't want on you.

I know for a fact that it took me a while to get rid of my disgust for men and manly things that decreased my respect for men. Heck, if I hadn't recently fallen in love with and gotten to understand a man, I'm pretty sure I'd still have significant remnants of it. I think there'll always be a little something to hurt an emotional scar somewhere, but thanksfully, now I can love him (and, I figure, others) for what he is.

Right here!

Quote from: Alice Danielle on September 08, 2013, 05:49:39 PM
I see "vast majority" I don't see "all" in there at all.....

Might as well have said all, And that's also not the first person Ive heard that from, Ive heard that from quite a few people actually, And it mostly comes from lgb people that's the only people I hear it from

Quote from: Alice Danielle on September 08, 2013, 05:55:13 PM
No because there is a big difference between vast majority and all.  Do you think maybe you've heard it from quite a few people because perhaps there's some truth to it?  Most people who wants to be seen as straight are not going to make that statement because then people will think that they aren't straight.

Im not gonna argue with you on that but I don't think theirs truth to it I believe most of your women get curious, But o I believe that everyon or should I say vast majority of people like both sexes no I don't, I think mpre people are becoming open about their sexuality though that's it

I'd just like to point out that what A said on this board wasn't the exact language of the study, I didn't see any quotes or links to the study.

Now, what A said does make sense to me. I think love is genderless, but society does have a big impact on what we think and how we feel. Of course, some people are strictly attracted either physically or emotionally to one sex and one gender only, whether it be naturally or due to society's pressures. But, if the world was different and no one cared about who you were attracted to, I would suspect we'd see a lot more people who identified as bisexual than we do today. I know of many gays and lesbians who first thought they were straight, but later on found out they weren't, they only thought they were straight because they were trying to fit in with society unconsciously -- this isn't uncommon in the LGBT community. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot more people out there who are actually bi or homosexual who are just forced to hide it because of where they live and the local laws/customs, or don't realize it because they haven't had the opportunity to be open with themselves about who they are.

Also,

Quote from: Brandon on September 08, 2013, 05:33:27 PM
Again,A fully straight perspn wil not fall in love with the same sex, I believe more women get curious but men tend not to, Ive loved women since 5 yrs old, And you just basically said everyone is bisexual because of that study

Just a question for you to ponder, why is it that women get curious but men don't? Is it biological or is it that it is more accepting in our society for a female to express emotional attachment to other females, while it is still typically taboo to allow men to show attachment to other men?

Brandon: That's basically saying one thing and its contrary. Being open about your sexuality -is- bisexuality, partial or not. Being absolutely and fully heterosexual (or vice versa for homosexuality) means that you do not have the ability to be turned on, to feel the slightest sexual desire for the same sex, at all. If you're "open" then you do have that "ability" to some extent.

LearnedHand: Yeah, indeed, it was only fuzzy memories.

Quote from: LearnedHand on September 08, 2013, 06:24:32 PM
I'd just like to point out that what A said on this board wasn't the exact language of the study, I didn't see any quotes or links to the study.

Now, what A said does make sense to me. I think love is genderless, but society does have a big impact on what we think and how we feel. Of course, some people are strictly attracted either physically or emotionally to one sex and one gender only, whether it be naturally or due to society's pressures. But, if the world was different and no one cared about who you were attracted to, I would suspect we'd see a lot more people who identified as bisexual than we do today. I know of many gays and lesbians who first thought they were straight, but later on found out they weren't, they only thought they were straight because they were trying to fit in with society unconsciously -- this isn't uncommon in the LGBT community. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot more people out there who are actually bi or homosexual who are just forced to hide it because of where they live and the local laws/customs, or don't realize it because they haven't had the opportunity to be open with themselves about who they are.

Also,

Just a question for you to ponder, why is it that women get curious but men don't? Is it biological or is it that it is more accepting in our society for a female to express emotional attachment to other females, while it is still typically taboo to allow men to show attachment to other men?

Yes its more of turn on for women in general to get intimate with eachother, It's more acceptable, Ive talked to many people and not to be rude but two men getting intimate is not a turn on to alot of people so yes in that case its more acceptable for a woman to have sex with another woman

Quote from: A on September 08, 2013, 06:27:01 PM
Brandon: That's basically saying one thing and its contrary. Being open about your sexuality -is- bisexuality, partial or not. Being absolutely and fully heterosexual (or vice versa for homosexuality) means that you do not have the ability to be turned on, to feel the slightest sexual desire for the same sex, at all. If you're "open" then you do have that "ability" to some extent.

LearnedHand: Yeah, indeed, it was only fuzzy memories.

That's only if your open no real straight person would fall in love with the same sex, Know I believe people should fall in love with the personality not whats in someones pants but that falls into the trans catergory, Im a man well young man regardless of whats between my legs, But again at the same time I like women and would only have sex with women, But still look at her personality as far as dating goes

Quote from: Brandon on September 08, 2013, 06:33:20 PM


Yes its more of turn on for women in general to get intimate with eachother, It's more acceptable, Ive talked to many people and not to be rude but two men getting intimate is not a turn on to alot of people so yes in that case its more acceptable for a woman to have sex with another woman

So, going off what you said, isn't it likely that if it was more socially acceptable in our society, would more men be physically and emotionally attracted to other men?

I think A was trying to say, that people probably are attracted to people of the same sex more often than we currently see in public but just don't realize it because they're not allowed to by society. A wasn't trying to say that everyone thinks or knows that they are bisexual. Just deep down in someone's brain, they might be, but don't realize it.

Yeah, better acceptance for lesbians than gays comes from long ago. Recently I saw a page that listed and described the countries with laws that forbid homosexuality in some way. There was one country where homosexual men could be killed for their sexual orientation, but homosexuality was simply not a crime for women. Even though in general, women are very discriminated against in that country, I think.

With women expected to stay at home and take care of the house and children and men expected to always be out to bring back money, I guess all of the women staying at home led to somehow making it be okay for them to be intimate with each other. Perhaps they didn't see it as "real" sex or "real" love, because a man or penetration or whatever is required for that, because everything revolves around men. Dunno, it's just speculation. I guess sexism and completely different and opposite conceptions of men and women had to bring women SOME advantages.

Interestingly, there are countries that, until a few years ago, completely permitted female homosexuality but made it a crime for males, and then, out of "equality", made it a crime for women too. With nicer penalties.

Quote from: LearnedHand on September 08, 2013, 06:38:36 PM
So, going off what you said, isn't it likely that if it was more socially acceptable in our society, would more men be physically and emotionally attracted to other men?

I think A was trying to say, that people probably are attracted to people of the same sex more often than we currently see in public but just don't realize it because they're not allowed to by society. A wasn't trying to say that everyone thinks or knows that they are bisexual. Just deep down in someone's brain, they might be, but don't realize it.

Yes maybe, But attraction means nothing unless your sexually attracted, I know plenty of men and women who are no were near gay but can agknowlage the fact that some one of the same sex can look nice it means nothing its all about who you would date and get intimate with

Well, uhm, that's where the differences between fundamental (what should be with a perfectly neutral society and upbringing and a perfect sampling of people to meet) and declared (what a person says they'll see themself as) sexual orientation.

Basically, let's say you're 90 % into women and 10 % into men (this you being a general you, not anyone in particular). What are the chances you'll say you're into men? Nah, at those numbers, chances are that you're only into women in all practical aspects. Also, who knows, perhaps a woman with slightly masculine traits would perfectly fit you.

What I'm trying to say might be more easily worded as "most heterosexuals have a capability to enjoy homosexual behaviours, and vice versa". That doesn't mean they'll admit it, and that doesn't mean it'll be strong enough for them to even think about it. And it doesn't mean they should change their "official" sexual orientation. Heck, if it takes the most favourable conditions in the world for you to enjoy a homosexual relationship, in practical terms, you're simply hetero.

And all this is not even taking into account feelings, which complicate matters by a fair bit. Some people, for instance, are asexual at varying levels. Others might be totally turned on by men only, but constantly fall in love with and want to marry women.

Quote from: A on September 08, 2013, 06:55:32 PM
Well, uhm, that's where the differences between fundamental (what should be with a perfectly neutral society and upbringing and a perfect sampling of people to meet) and declared (what a person says they'll see themself as) sexual orientation.

Basically, let's say you're 90 % into women and 10 % into men (this you being a general you, not anyone in particular). What are the chances you'll say you're into men? Nah, at those numbers, chances are that you're only into women in all practical aspects. Also, who knows, perhaps a woman with slightly masculine traits would perfectly fit you.

What I'm trying to say might be more easily worded as "most heterosexuals have a capability to enjoy homosexual behaviours, and vice versa". That doesn't mean they'll admit it, and that doesn't mean it'll be strong enough for them to even think about it. And it doesn't mean they should change their "official" sexual orientation. Heck, if it takes the most favourable conditions in the world for you to enjoy a homosexual relationship, in practical terms, you're simply hetero.

And all this is not even taking into account feelings, which complicate matters by a fair bit. Some people, for instance, are asexual at varying levels. Others might be totally turned on by men only, but constantly fall in love with and want to marry women.

Yea I think you should word it differently, Into means you would date and trust me I'm only into women, But I get what your saying know

Quote from: Brandon on September 08, 2013, 06:58:59 PM
Yea I think you should word it differently, Into means you would date and trust me I'm only into women, But I get what your saying know

No one is saying you're a gay man. ;) No need to feel defensive, we believe you.

Quote from: LearnedHand on September 08, 2013, 07:00:36 PM
No one is saying you're a gay man. ;) No need to feel defensive, we believe you.

No i'm just saying some people take it the wrong way, Because when I hear into I think you would date or if you will have sex with unless theirs a different meaning

Quote from: BearGuy on February 10, 2013, 06:13:34 PM
Since I've been here, I noticed that about 80-90% of everyone is gay. In real life I meet other guys and they are either bisexual or gay, I never met a straight transguy (like me). As a kid, I always thought I was a boy not only because I behaved like one, but I loooved girls from childhood xD It was only until recently that I found out that FTMs can be gay, and that identity & orientation are two different things. I thought I was a lesbian, because I'm a boy in a girls body...I seriously thought that up until recently.

So, how come is it that most transguys are gay/bi? Is there a link between being FTM and attraction to men? I know I'm 100% straight, and I have no femininity in me at all, behavior and interest-wise. As a kid I thought I was bisexual, but only out of curiosity. Now I realized I'm just the typical white straight male, nothing special  :( lol

You could say the same thing about most M2Fs.

So as a M2F or as a woman who transitioned here are my thoughts...

Trans people often tend to envy members of their target sex group and make friends with them to get closer to the experience of being [Target Sex].  Example, "I know I am male on the outside but I am female on the inside and I want female friends so I can feel I am closer to the experience of being female.  And how much more close can you get to the experience of being [Target Sex] without actually being it then by getting in bed with a member of your [Target Sex] group.

I remember before transition when I was with women I would go straight to the oral and it was like I was trying to absorb their essence.

B.  Who knows better than someone born the wrong sex that who we love is who we love, regardless of anatomy?

Anyway... I am straight.  When I was still transitioning (M2F) I dated a pre operative trans woman like myself and I really like penis but I could probably be with a woman too except dating has become about economics and I like a guy who wants to take care of me and I am tired of going dutch and penises are awesome.  Also I don't like competing for the female role, I got tired of that when I was still dating my M2F girlfriend.

competing for the female role? well, that sounds pretty weird. maybe it's because you were both mtf and wanting to feel like a traditional woman. there should be an abundance of women out there who would love to top another woman. some times it depends more on the person than their gender.

I can understand that "competition" in a way. Trans women tend to want to be a woman - be seen and treated as such - more than your average woman, out of, ya know, deprivation. But when two women with that strong need come together, it can clash in a way. Simple example is spooning. "Wanting to be female" in that context makes you want to be the one who's hugged rather than the one who hugs. Having a girlfriend who always wants to be the one who's hugged can lead you to feel frustrated. I think it's an accummulation of little things like that.

Also, several (not all of course) so-said "feminine" lesbians will tend to expect a masculine behaviour from their girlfriends, to a smaller or larger extent, going from literally a very butch lesbian to just some relatively subtle personality differences. They might yearn for someone protective, someone active, someone a bit rougher than themselves. But if both girls are that way, it's going to clash in quite a few ways. Not clash with sparkles like two dominating figures clash, but it will lead to frustration.