Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Inasmuch as it is obvious I have learned a lot of things since I joined, but, I must confess, perhaps the most neat things I have learned, have actually been realizing what it is like for the born in female bodies men on the site, and what it is they have had to endure and go through.

I might be mistaken, but, I think society might actually think that while MTF is weird, that FTM doesn't even exist.

I say that, because, to be honest, so much of their plight has simply just never occurred to me in the first place.

Again, I might be wrong about the above assumption, but it has at least been interesting realizing that transgender really is a problem for more than just one side of the coin.

I think that's my number one lesson as well, to be frank.

Just wanted to throw this webcomic on the topic into the mix... I think it's a quite amusing summary of it.

http://transgirldiaries.com/?p=1204 (http://transgirldiaries.com/?p=1204)

I have friends that are MTF and FTM so that is kind of normal to me. What I didn't realize is how tight nit the community seems to be and just how supportive everyone is. So excited to become a part of this ^.^ !!!!!

Quote from: cheetaking243 on February 13, 2013, 02:41:33 PM
Just wanted to throw this webcomic on the topic into the mix... I think it's a quite amusing summary of it.

http://transgirldiaries.com/?p=1204 (http://transgirldiaries.com/?p=1204)

The author of those comics came here and talked to us about them.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,119408.msg943791.html#msg943791 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,119408.msg943791.html#msg943791)

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on February 13, 2013, 02:01:14 PM
Inasmuch as it is obvious I have learned a lot of things since I joined, but, I must confess, perhaps the most neat things I have learned, have actually been realizing what it is like for the born in female bodies men on the site, and what it is they have had to endure and go through.

I might be mistaken, but, I think society might actually think that while MTF is weird, that FTM doesn't even exist.

I say that, because, to be honest, so much of their plight has simply just never occurred to me in the first place.

Again, I might be wrong about the above assumption, but it has at least been interesting realizing that transgender really is a problem for more than just one side of the coin.

I learned to not make jokes about the Pope...LOL

I remember in the early days you used to say you were envious of FtMs. ;)

It's heartwarming to hear that you appreciate our side of the story and that you now realise that our grass isn't any greener than yours. You've taken our words to heart and for that, I thank you. :)

Quote from: spacial on February 13, 2013, 02:21:48 PM
I think that's my number one lesson as well, to be frank.

Who's Frank? ;)

Indeed, they (the FTM's) were the ones who really pointed me to looking closer at my situation...once I got past the "why in heck would anyone WANT to be male?!" phase.

After that, I was intrigued by their perspective on maleness/manhood. Imho, they'll make better men than many cis-men.

I knew they existed, but I have to admit that I always kind of thought it was easier for them than it actually is. This site showed me that wasn't the case.

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on February 13, 2013, 02:01:14 PM
I might be mistaken, but, I think society might actually think that while MTF is weird, that FTM doesn't even exist.

I know as far as my observations during last years hearings on the trans rights bill in Maryland, also known as the bathroom bill, as far as the opposition is concerned only the Jerry Springer MTFs exist in society. There wasn't a mention at all by the bathroom nuts as to why FTMs should be banned from the men's room

Quote from: cheetaking243 on February 13, 2013, 02:41:33 PM
Just wanted to throw this webcomic on the topic into the mix... I think it's a quite amusing summary of it.

http://transgirldiaries.com/?p=1204 (http://transgirldiaries.com/?p=1204)

Those are excellent. I missed them first time and am really pleased they have been reposted.

This page particularly is interesting, especially within the context of this thread: http://transgirldiaries.com/?p=1206 (http://transgirldiaries.com/?p=1206)

Whether we like it or not, we have, each of us, experienced, for varying periods, life in our birth gender. That has necessarily involved our enforced involvement in many of the learning experiences that those who are comfortable with their birth gender appreciate.

That page highlights, from the perspective of gfemales, an important aspect of the frustration many gfemales deal with. It is very well observed and described.

What it doesn't show is the same experience from the aspect of gmales. The same experience which lead many (all? some gfemales might say so) gmales to behave in the ways described in those cartoons.

If I may, I will briefly describe a scene from a 1970 TV program. It was a short lived comedy series, where a middle class man leaves his lifestyle, to live as a hippy type in a poorer, run down, inner city area of London.

Now he is in a pub, talking to some friends when in comes a couple of guys who are black. This middle class man has never met any black people on a personal basis and immediately tries to say hello in his interpertation of a TV interpertation of jive talk, 'Hey, my Man! How's it going brother? Lay some skin on me!'

Naturally, (inevitably) the two black guys are just ordinary, regular sorts, coming in to meet their friends and have a pint. They look at this man like he's from Mars!

What happened here was someone trying to communicate. The white guy had never met any black people and tried his best. He wanted to talk. He could have simply stood there and observed. That would have been the sensible thing. He could have chosen not to bother. But he made an effort. Albeit as clumsy and ultimately failed effort. But he tried. He tried to say, I want to know you. I see you're black and I have never met any black people. Can I get to know you and know some of the experiences that you deal with as a balck person?

That is a perfectly reasonable position.  This guy has made an effort to understand, to empathise. If his efforts had been a bit more 'cool', he might have succeeded. That they weren't cool is his own inadequacy, not his bad intentions.

The real point here is, those who make an effort are idiots. People moan about being separated from society because they enjoy it. People moan about being discriminated against, being treated as second class, because they relish the thrill of repression.

Frankly, as in the example of that cartoon, the reaction was arrogant, self centred and mean. Did the two black guys, for a moment, ever ask themselves why this white guy has so little experience of black people? Now we can say, the white guy should have just spoken normally. But he didn't know that. More over, since he came from an essentially pretentious environment, where playing the right part is essential to survival, he was accustomed to trying to discover how peoples act in specific situations.

These two black guys didn't know that. But the difference is, the white guy made an effort.

The woman in the cartoon is behaving as any other horny person does, she's asking the guy out of a date. That she is a socially illiterate oaf is a problem, but not a reason to hate.


(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg33.imageshack.us%2Fimg33%2F5109%2Ftx02.jpg&hash=f55b6b4a11c1a887a1845a27c0e4189b71b6210d)

I will add that I am not making any sort of personal attack upon the member who kindly posted the link and commented. I think the cartoons are excellent and make excellent point. Cartoons are designed to incite discussion and that is what, (all) I am doing.