Susan's Place Transgender Resources

i just thought i'd start a discussion about assumptions people have made about you after you told them you're trans.
being a transguy who prefers men, i get a lot of confusion when it comes to my dating life/interests. my brother referred to me as a "gay woman" even after i specifically told him i was bisexual (really pan, but... y'know). misgendering aside, it was pretty frustrating. one classmate assumed i was talking about a woman when i gushed about how cute my therapist was. and just yesterday, my friend thought that my relationship ended because i "broke it to him", when in fact my S.O. knew i was ftm from the start.

i'm also kind of afraid to express my interest in girly clothes/things. i have almost no interest in typical boy things, but i try to keep myself in check so as to not draw unnecessary attention to my gender. i dont even pass as it is.

i'm not mad or venting, just thought i'd open this topic up, since i think it's pretty important. so much about being tans is about testing gender/sex roles, yet even after coming to be who we are, we're still bound to them.

any comments/thoughts? your own experiences? i'd love to hear them!

People assume I am predominantly attracted to women. People assume I am attracted to anyone aka they assume I have any interest in sex (I'm practically asexual). They assume I have any interest in gender roles what-so-ever. They assume that since I act effeminate, I am effeminate as opposed to having been socialized that way. They assume that since I like some things that are considered effeminate, that makes me effeminate as opposed to the rest of my personality. Yet, when they thought I was female, they assumed I was masculine and acted shocked when I did anything girly.

That because I'm trans, it must mean I am gay, as well. (eta: meaning, attracted to men--nevermind that I'm a trans-WOMAN, and I'm bi-ish... ::) )

They often assume that I will be getting "The Surgery" sometime soon, like in the next couple of months or so.

My mom thinks I can't be trans* because I'm gay.  I also, apparently, can't be trans* because I'm feminine.  -Apparently- I'm not "as trans as" I "think" because of this.  I'm, apparently, supposed to be into girls and I'm supposed to be masculine.  Which I'm not.  I like "girly" things, I'm more attracted to men, etc. 

It's rather irritating and I understand your issues entirely.

Yeah so many people assumed that I must be into women despite being in a relationship with a man for a few years. A lot of people seem to think that going on T will suddenly make me attracted to women as well.
From people who don't know me that well but know that I'm a biological female wanting to be male they sometimes think I'm a really butch lesbian and I want to transition to male to make life easier.

People definitely struggle to understand that I'm going from a straight female to a gay male because in their mind a gay man is very feminine and more like a woman so if I'm into men why not stay a woman. It's very infuriating.

I have had some issues with not being masculine enough for people to take seriously. I'd say I have a lot of masculine traits but there are some aspects about me that are feminine. Some of my interests are probably considered more on the feminine side. This often makes people question if I really am trans or if I'm just confused. My family aren't like this anymore and accept me fully but every time I do something that's deemed more feminine than masculine I get the feeling they are still questioning me in their minds.

I guess the biggest most annoying assumption is that life is either straight, or homosexual as if that everything not straight is immediately homosexual.

I am stuck in a male form, fate is like that, some of us were born cis female and are pissed off that large hooters and a great figure means we are also stupid. Some of us are not cis female and can only day dream about being mistaken as a dumb broad.

I like females, I am not sure why. I am a female in a male form, and I am not sure why I ended up this way.

But I wonder a lot of things routinely. Like what would it be to have NOT gone balding.

I suppose having been an odd person all my life, I also wonder, do people that know me, think this is just yet another odd phase in my life? I admit, that has crossed my mind as well.

But the more I look back on my life, the more I see my life through the eyes of a female and realize, yeah if I had been born a cis female, well I suppose I'd have been a horny over sexed wench, and I'd have probably married a guy and have several kids.

My hatred of men has not made me incapable of talking to them of course. It's like I can rant about Americans from a political standpoint, but then I am really only ranting about their government as I have yet to meet an American (in person) that I had issues with. And I really only know a couple online I actually hate. But so what, I have met people in my home town I hate. Big deal then eh.

I was walking past a couple yesterday, and the lad, he says a greeting and added 'sir' to it. And sadly for several minutes after that, I was moody about not being a mam. Not that the guy had any way of knowing eh.
Dressed as I usually am this time of year, atypical male fashion cargo pants, typical black leather bomber jacket and a clearly obvious male pattern hair loss head of hair, why would he think I was a she.

Yup, same here. Despite the fact that I've been married to a man for nearly two decades, people presume my sexual preferences are suddenly going to swing the opposite way. And they always phrase it in the same way: "so... are you going to become a lesbian then?". Makes me want to chuck a dictionary at them. ;)

Another assumption is that because (to them) I'm pretty much a real-life version of a Jerry Springer guest, it's perfectly OK to ask me rude questions that you wouldn't dream of asking a random person in the street. You know the questions I mean: the ones like 'so, what do you have between your legs?'.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on March 01, 2013, 08:27:44 AM
This topic kinda interests me because honestly I am more like those people who don't understand...

I'm not trying to be rude or inconsiderate of anyone but I'm just wondering, what is it that makes you want to transition if this is the experience you have to look forward to?? Constantly being misunderstood because your mind/hobbies/interests/style and whatever doesn't match your gender presentation.  That was why I transitioned to female in the first place!! So I don't totally get it.  But I'm not saying you don't have the right to transition I just wanna understand what makes people feel that way  :)

A few answers:

We like to bitch about things.   ;)

Seriously, the human condition is incredibly interesting to me. I don't "care" about their questions/assumptions/comdemnations (in the sense of taking offense at things people say) but I do find it silly that, as FTMdiaries mentions, they will ask questions that they would not ask "normal" people (at least, not without getting slapped).

I don't "want" to transition, I NEED to transition. If I were required to get a full-body tattoo in rainbow colors and endure a leper's existence...I would still transition. The pain of people laughing and pointing is less than the agony I felt within.

Being in college, most people usually ask what they don't know or understand rather than assume based on their misunderstanding. But by human nature our minds make assumptions regardless, and it's easy to tell what they are. I always, always get asked my sexual orientation. I surprise them when I tell them I'm into girls. They are surprised that I'm trans to begin with, being that I'm rather masculine. Even when dressed in womens clothes and wearing makeup I resemble a goth. I sometimes get asked about the transition process. While most understand it's not an hour's visit to the surgeon, they don't realize how complex and long-term it is. But when I describe it to them it makes sense why it would be. And they always ask why. Not that they think it's a decision or that I'm mentally ill, but they want to know why I must. The standing idea is that they never really put much thought into it, but are open minded enough to want to understand it.

Then there are the few people who are either completely oblivious or utter jerks. They tend to assume we are flamboyant, exceptionally feminine homosexuals who one day want to become a woman, so we walk into a doctor's office and leave an hour later as a freakish looking organism who tries way too hard to be one. Think of the Family Guy episode Quagmire's Dad. I've met enough of them.

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on March 01, 2013, 08:16:24 AM
I guess the biggest most annoying assumption is that life is either straight, or homosexual as if that everything not straight is immediately homosexual.

Another nail hit squarely on the head! I'm so sick of having to explain to certain people that i'm a heterosexual pre-op, pre-hrt, mtf transsexual, is that so damn hard for them to get their head around?  ::)

What this means to me is that if I was intimate with a man (which is unlikely to happen) I would only do things that a heterosexual woman would do, I would not consider doing anything that would remind me of my faulty plumbing therefore I am not gay.

Unfortunately I find that the people who assume i'm gay are too narrow minded to give me a chance to explain the difference, I suspect that they are just too insecure to think outside of their tiny little comfort zone

One thing most people seem to assume is that I am straight. I haven't had much issue when I tell them I am gay.

Something a lot of the men I have met think is that I do not want to have SRS. They just don't understand why I would want to "cut it off".

Women on the other had assume I am either going to have SRS in the next month or two, or that I have already had it. Most of them don't understand how I can live with that...thing between my legs.

Also, people seem to assume they have to talk to me with kids gloves. That I am extremely emotionally fragile and sensitive. They are quite shocked when I make some off hand comment about my penis.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on March 01, 2013, 08:27:44 AM
This topic kinda interests me because honestly I am more like those people who don't understand...

I'm not trying to be rude or inconsiderate of anyone but I'm just wondering, what is it that makes you want to transition if this is the experience you have to look forward to?? Constantly being misunderstood because your mind/hobbies/interests/style and whatever doesn't match your gender presentation.  That was why I transitioned to female in the first place!! So I don't totally get it.  But I'm not saying you don't have the right to transition I just wanna understand what makes people feel that way  :)

Long before I was aware of who I actually am, I was regularly offended by the same crowd to some extent, merely for different reasons.

I am not a satanist because of my role games being a classic example.

No I am not a warmonger because of my liking to play wargames.

I am not incapable of good merely because I refuse to participant in what I think some call a requirement for being decent. That being religious. You have less chance of being burned at the stake by me or stoned to death, or run out of town based on your lifestyle than you will from those 'nice religious people'.

I am nice because it is something I prefer. I stop in at stores and chat because I am inherently chatty. I once told the lady that owns the local hobby store, when discussing some of my older kits I had given away rather than sell them, that it is beneficial to do nice things when you can. I didn't need the cash, and people had given me kits in the past as well. I told her, no one deserves anything nice to happen to them, if they never do anything nice for anyone else.

I don't need a mean vengeful misogynistic deity's threats to realize how much nicer the world would be if we were all just nicer to each other. Personally, I think less of people that only behave out of some belief of a reward in the after life and threats of punishment as being the only reason they behave. It is better to know the person was nice all because it is important to the person to be that way.

I want to transition for the same reason I might want a new home. I want my life to be as enjoyable as I can make it.

And right now, the ONLY reason I am not planning to walk to the mall in a skirt, is life would just not let me enjoy it as much as I currently would require it. Maybe I will be able to fix that later. I have hopes.

There are always limits. Transgender people in that respect are like everyone else. We have our priorities just like everyone else.

People ask me, why don't I just wear the skirt. I might just as easily ask, so why are you still at that job that you never stop complaining about?

Some things are easier than others.
So much of society is now playing games, that originally were the private domain of geeks.
I have less success with the wargames though.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on March 01, 2013, 10:08:12 AM
I guess this is what I never really understood.  Like, what suddenly makes a person feel that way?  What makes someone go "well I'm really masculine but actually I need to look like and be seen as a girl."  Or I'm really feminine but I need to look like and be seen as a boy.  It just seems strange because it doesn't work that way for most people.  Like if you mutilate a boy's genitals at birth and raise him as a girl,  9 times out of 10 he's gonna go "but I don't like feminine things, I'm masculine and not feminine" and reassign his gender back to male. 

Sorry again if I am being rude or something :( I don't mean to be this is just a thing I have struggled to understand for my entire time on Susan's.  Not that it is a problem I just wish it wasn't like my feelings don't match everyone else's...

I don't think you are being rude, you are just trying to understand something. For me, I did not transition while younger because I would get beat if I was not masculine enough. The fear of physical violence was enough to cause me to suppress it. I continued to suppress it for as long as I could. However, my "coping" mechanisms started to fail me. It became either transition, or kill myself. What I am trying to say is that we all have our reasons for our actions. Some of us have known our entire lives who we were supposed to be. Others are just now realizing it. Either way, we are trying to become the person we were supposed to be the whole time.

I'm sure someone will be able to explain it a bit better than me.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on March 01, 2013, 10:26:18 AM
But if you actually are masculine then why worry about being beat for not being masculine enough??  I'm confused.  Maybe my question was misunderstood a lil, I meant for MTFs who have more in common with guys than girls or FTMs who have more in common with girls than guys, what makes them feel female or male in that case.

Hope that clarifies :)

Could you please explain what you mean by "more in common with..."? I just want to make sure I understand, that's all.

I haven't really had any problems with this despite having dated men all my life. I've always had a pretty masculine personality even when I tried to look femme, so people just 'get it'. They're like 'oh now I finally understand you!'  And my family thinks it's totally normal I'm bi. If I'm talking about a woman, they think it's perfectly understandable since I'm a man. If I'm talking about a man, they think it makes perfect sense since I've dated mostly men.

And my overtly feminine interests (fashion design, interior decorating) are a post-transition thing so nobody ties them to a 'feminine' identity. Maybe someone just meeting me who finds out I'm trans might. I don't know. Hasn't happened yet.

The only assumptions I run into are stuff like 'why would I want to highlight my hair now?' Well, it does wonders for my complexion.  :laugh:

The interests and personality someone has is not bound to a gender. A person can be a cis-woman who also likes cars, guns, climbing the corporate ladder, etc...and not be any less of a woman for doing so.

Many women don't like those things because "women aren't supposed to like those." Their behavior is controlled by society. Yet, they are not less of a woman just because they choose to conform to society's standards (as opposed to genuinely liking those activities).

Gender is a fundamental part of the soul's identity, imho.

(eta a single word)  ???

Quote from: Beth Andrea on March 01, 2013, 11:02:54 AM
The interests and personality someone has is not bound to a gender.

This. I'm transitioning because I'm male, not because it will make anything "easier" (it won't) and not because I have masculine interests.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on March 01, 2013, 10:30:47 AM
Well, like the OP said, for an FTM, not liking any boy things, but having interests in girly things.  And the opposite for an MTF, kinda like the thread recently that said "Is it weird that I'm very masculine?"

My son fits the first description, and my sense at this point is that he identifies as a fairly "femme" gay male. He loves to get his hair dyed in all sorts of freaky colors, and does not seem to worry much about how anyone else chooses to see him, except that he absolutely abhors his breasts, or those things he sees as "fat bags" on his chest.

It seems to me it's ultimately about how one sees one's body.  It took me several years in therapy, even though I came into my first session expressing how I identified as female, to get through to my therapist on this (and really too, to clarify it for myself).  After all, I'd grown up being assumed to be a fairly femme gay guy (though marriage did cast some ambiguity there, but still I felt like various gay friends and acquaintances kept staring at me wondering when I was going to finally just come out, and that colored my therapy sessions too, as I felt that was something my therapist was assuming I would come to embrace eventually... but if I were going to embrace it, why didn't I do that way back when?  There's definitely a part of me that is jealous of and wishes I could identify as a gay guy, the more flamboyant the better... I admire femme-y gay guys and often found myself wishing I were one.  But it never felt right, and not because I was hiding myself.

I did all I considered possible (apart from actively seeking transition) to live in a social role I considered female or at least strongly femininely tinged. I get almost all the sense of self worth I have from my role and relationship with my kids, and I'm fortunate to have managed to maintain that role and closeness in spite of the divorce that came when they were in the elementary grades. But in many ways that just made the dysphoria worse (and probably also contributed to my huge doubts about how much transitioning will really help, though my recent coming out to a large group of long-time friends, at least in the moment, was so affirming... maybe because I'd been so open about what I wanted, I got much less of the "why?" or "But you're so handsome, so manly..." noise that many have to suffer through.  Still, even though I can look back at that and find the positives, I keep pulling out the negatives. Maybe it's because I don't feel I can afford to follow through right now, at least not before I find some way to generate some predictable and substantial revenue, and given my work history (mostly having been a full-time homemaker, errand runner, after-school (and during school) "bus driver" for my kids I just dread trying to market myself, and I tend to fall apart or refuse to toot my own horn on the other skills that I do have, that ought to be marketable.

Some of this is doubtless the social anxiety I feel about going through the more awkward parts of transition, though I'm not sure how sensible that is, considering that I'm already extremely androgynous in presentation...

Anyway, enough digression... it seems to me that it really comes down to the body thing. If it doesn't, then there's probably an easier, cheaper alternative one could consider.  For whatever reason (it will probably be nailed down and accepted by the medical community just as my body is being sent to wherever) I look at the body that I was given, and I either try to see the woman in it, or I avoid looking at all.  For me, what I want is pretty much in sync with social norms, but that's an accident.  When my son talks about the body issues he has, despite them being a flip-flop of my issues, I still can understand what he is saying, because I also don't want to see those features that just shouldn't be there.  I over-complicated things by coming up with various rationalizations and alternative strategies, but they never really worked except perhaps to slightly dial down the dysphoria to almost manageable levels... while all the time the water kept rising, and they now don't do much at all.

Not a prob, girl...different people, different reasons for transitioning.

There are things that everyone/anyone will never understand...but kudos to you for wanting to, and trying.

*hugs*

:)

Quote from: girl you look fierce on March 01, 2013, 12:05:01 PM
I am never gonna know what trans people mean by gender if it's not attached to someone's personality. 

Can I take one more crack at this? I had so much trouble with this for such a long time, maybe talking about my experience helps.

When I'm in the presence of a bunch of women, whether or not we have anything in common, I feel like I belong. When I'm with a bunch of men, even if we share jobs, interests, etc., I feel like the odd one out. I'm drawn to books and movies about women, don't feel connected to those about men. This is true even if I don't have anything in common with the women there. When I see a woman wearing women's clothes and a female haircut, I think, "that's the way I'd like to look." I don't get that feeling with male clothes. And I feel like my body would be more "right" if it had female features and anatomy.

That's what it feels like having a female "gender" with a male body.

Does this help?

^ This, but in reverse, is also what it feels like to have a male gender in a female body.

"People are strange when you're a stranger,
Faces look ugly when you're alone.
Women seem wicked when you're unwanted,
Streets are uneven when you're down.

When you're strange
Faces come out of the rain.
When you're strange
No one remembers your name
When you're strange"

Funny, but this whole conversation made this song pop into my head from possibly one of the greatest poets of our time, Jim Morrison. Jim could sing it so well because he truly knew it. To me, this song pretty much sums up the whole of the human race.

As for dysphoria of anykind, it really doesn't matter what other people see but it does matter 100% how the person sees themselves. People die from anorexia all the time because no matter how thin they are they see themselves as too fat. Bullimia with all the gorging and purging burns up the esophagus and erodes away the teeth because of the constant contact with stomach acids to keep from gaining a few pounds. Why do people have nose jobs, tummy tucks, face lifts, liposuction and so on done? Because they are not satisfied with how they see themselves.

Gender dysphoria? We have the technology to change genders, change it. Plastic surgery, If you aren't satisified with what you see, we have the technology, change it. I am all about letting people feel good and confident about themselves.

Quote from: agfrommd on March 01, 2013, 12:48:15 PM
Can I take one more crack at this? I had so much trouble with this for such a long time, maybe talking about my experience helps.

When I'm in the presence of a bunch of women, whether or not we have anything in common, I feel like I belong. When I'm with a bunch of men, even if we share jobs, interests, etc., I feel like the odd one out. I'm drawn to books and movies about women, don't feel connected to those about men. This is true even if I don't have anything in common with the women there. When I see a woman wearing women's clothes and a female haircut, I think, "that's the way I'd like to look." I don't get that feeling with male clothes. And I feel like my body would be more "right" if it had female features and anatomy.

That's what it feels like having a female "gender" with a male body.

Does this help?

Aaaaah i hate to do this but.... i dont totally feel the same way :/

in all honesty, i have no idea what makes me a boy. i like girl things, i like my body, i like womens clothes, womens hair, i feel comfortable around women, i even wish i was a woman. i look at women and sometimes wish i looked like them. i sometimes wish i was madonna. lol i have no idea what it is.

so no, that's not what it's like to be a male in a female body, not for everyone.

(EDIT: let me make a note, though. i would like a more male body and male features. its just that i dont totally feel wrong with what i have now. so i do agree in some aspects just not totally in others. i have more social dysphoria than physical, and i dont always feel better around men. men are actually kind of intimidating for me :P)

for me, it was trial and error. i have a big network of queer friends, so i really just let them see me and treat me as a boy, and took a boy's name, and male pronouns, and i felt comfortable. i dont hate my breasts and i don't really relate to most men. but i just feel comfortable being one. i'm just really effeminate and tend to get along better with girls and queer people.

the difference is... i wish i WAS a woman. but i'm just not.

i don't WANT to be a boy, i AM one.

people who dont understand just never had to question their gender. it's comfortable enough for them. i never felt right as a girl. it took me so long to realize because i'm femme, so it wasn't glaringly obvious, but it was always.... off. and i probably never would've figured it out if i hadn't taken the role of a boy.

in all honesty i dont understand gender and i dont know how i can explain why i'm a boy. it's not really something concrete to me, like my interests or clothes or dysphoria. those are secondary. it's just an internal sense of self. it's very subtle.

I'm gay and fairly fem. Well, I figure I must be "andro" in personality because I was always described as butch when I was presenting female ::) can't win either way

It seems a lot of people have trouble wrapping their heads around the concept of being trans and being gay...or otherwise not fitting into the stereotype of the gender you're transitioning to. I'm certain I would be so much more accepted and understood by certain people if I liked women and football and putting up shelves.

I remember being very young, barely into puberty, and reading a little fluff news piece in the paper about a "man who became a woman and then ran off to become a lesbian" - I thought at the time "lolwat? why would you do that? that's crazy, may as well have just stayed a man"

Of course I eventually realised that personality, gender, and orientation are all completely different entities (well for some people, apparently they aren't, but that's how I see it)

As for the original topic....yeah people assume I like women. Even though the vast majority of people I've dated or shown an interest in have been men. I'm in a committed relationship with a man...and still some of my friends think I want to chat about boobs or generally partake in conversations about objectifying women.

People assume I'm going to turn into a body builder just from T shots.

People assume I want to bring my daughter up as a boy -_- this one really annoys me, like anyone in their right mind would wish GID on anybody, let alone their own child. My sister expressed genuine shock when I showed her a pretty new dress I bought for the kidlet - "....you bought that....YOU....bought a DRESS?! WILLINGLY?" - erm yes? xD it's not like the mere presence of dresses offends me, I just don't want to wear them myself

Quote from: secondo on March 01, 2013, 01:46:02 PM

Quote from: agfrommd on March 01, 2013, 12:48:15 PM
Can I take one more crack at this? I had so much trouble with this for such a long time, maybe talking about my experience helps.

When I'm in the presence of a bunch of women, whether or not we have anything in common, I feel like I belong. When I'm with a bunch of men, even if we share jobs, interests, etc., I feel like the odd one out. I'm drawn to books and movies about women, don't feel connected to those about men. This is true even if I don't have anything in common with the women there. When I see a woman wearing women's clothes and a female haircut, I think, "that's the way I'd like to look." I don't get that feeling with male clothes. And I feel like my body would be more "right" if it had female features and anatomy.

That's what it feels like having a female "gender" with a male body.

Does this help?

Aaaaah i hate to do this but.... i dont totally feel the same way :/

in all honesty, i have no idea what makes me a boy. i like girl things, i like my body, i like womens clothes, womens hair, i feel comfortable around women, i even wish i was a woman. i look at women and sometimes wish i looked like them. i sometimes wish i was madonna. lol i have no idea what it is.

so no, that's not what it's like to be a male in a female body, not for everyone.

(EDIT: let me make a note, though. i would like a more male body and male features. its just that i dont totally feel wrong with what i have now. so i do agree in some aspects just not totally in others. i have more social dysphoria than physical, and i dont always feel better around men. men are actually kind of intimidating for me :P)

for me, it was trial and error. i have a big network of queer friends, so i really just let them see me and treat me as a boy, and took a boy's name, and male pronouns, and i felt comfortable. i dont hate my breasts and i don't really relate to most men. but i just feel comfortable being one. i'm just really effeminate and tend to get along better with girls and queer people.

the difference is... i wish i WAS a woman. but i'm just not.

i don't WANT to be a boy, i AM one.

people who dont understand just never had to question their gender. it's comfortable enough for them. i never felt right as a girl. it took me so long to realize because i'm femme, so it wasn't glaringly obvious, but it was always.... off. and i probably never would've figured it out if i hadn't taken the role of a boy.

in all honesty i dont understand gender and i dont know how i can explain why i'm a boy. it's not really something concrete to me, like my interests or clothes or dysphoria. those are secondary. it's just an internal sense of self. it's very subtle.

Ok. I was trying to follow, but I'm officially lost now.  :laugh:
I guess everyone's experience is different.  :)

Quote from: agfrommd on March 01, 2013, 12:48:15 PM
Can I take one more crack at this? I had so much trouble with this for such a long time, maybe talking about my experience helps.

When I'm in the presence of a bunch of women, whether or not we have anything in common, I feel like I belong. When I'm with a bunch of men, even if we share jobs, interests, etc., I feel like the odd one out. I'm drawn to books and movies about women, don't feel connected to those about men. This is true even if I don't have anything in common with the women there. When I see a woman wearing women's clothes and a female haircut, I think, "that's the way I'd like to look." I don't get that feeling with male clothes. And I feel like my body would be more "right" if it had female features and anatomy.

That's what it feels like having a female "gender" with a male body.

Does this help?

Fwiw, this is me.

I just felt huge, huge anxiety around men, but I never thought, "hey, I'm a girl!" I did have an epiphenical moment one night when I realized....I had body hair! OMG WTF?!? Over time, as I shaved and waxed, got earrings, etc I realized...I'm a woman inside a man's body.

secondo, seek help fast. You have real issues if you want to be Madonna. ;D

I don't think anyone can fully understand when it comes to personalities, what defines our gender identities and so on. We are complex beings, we are complicated. We will likely never see answers in our lifetimes. As far as that goes, I don't think anyone can tell us beyond a shadow of a doubt why we are able to think thoughts. But I will say this, the only one who can decide is you.

Maybe try to see a therapist to see if there is anything that could possibly be causing you to feel this way or triggered it off. There is no guarantee but for some it helps.

I have herd that i can't be transgendered because:

I listen to Nu metal, not pop.

I'm only doing it because of my love of breasts.

I'm only doing it because i can't find a guy to sleep with.

I won't be able to handle the higher maintenance genitals of a woman

I'm only doing it for attention.

I'm only doing it for a specific person

I'm wasting my time, money and effort because no one ever fully transitions.

Probably the funniest tho.....you have a couple scars on your legs from a surgery and a work accident, are you really going to be comfortable wearing skirts and shorter shorts that would leave them exposed?
I found that one funny because both scars are old enough that they have faded and tan with the rest of my leg now.

Kari Ann.

Part of the problem is in calling things 'girlie' things.

I'd rather be around women. I just don't like men.

But what precisely are girlie things?

To me menstruating is a girlie thing. Try menstruating if you are in a male form eh.

Power tools, why do they have to be a guy thing?

I realize some things are typically male form aspects. It's not easy NOT having facial hair.

But what about things you can't remove, that can't be added surgically?

I prefer to think of gender as being the intangible portion of what makes us who we are.

Sadly, the only reason I have been conditioned to dress as I do, is because of a piece of anatomy that really only has a very limited function and use. It would be nice if girls came in a type and b type, and boys came in a type and b type, and no one made a fuss over what you were, an a type or a b type beyond there being a need for opposing reproductive organs required for procreation.

The only assumption I know that has been made about me and that pisses me off is that apparently, I'm supposed to have sex with whoever throws a bone my way. Although, I have to say those guys that have asked to "experiment" because they are "curious" do have some balls to even approach me. I have no problem telling them no thanks though. The idea of being someone's "experiment"  disgusts me greatly. They are damn lucky I'm not the type to tell people just how creepy their friend, husband or relative is.

Quote from: Brooke777 on March 01, 2013, 10:19:21 AM
The fear of physical violence was enough to cause me to suppress it. I continued to suppress it for as long as I could. However, my "coping" mechanisms started to fail me. It became either transition, or kill myself.

Brooke, sometimes your experiences mirror my own so closely that it scares me. Quite simply, I am transitioning because I can't drink enough to make the dysphoria recede into the background any more and the anguish of trying to exist in the wrong skin was more than enough to bring me to the brink on more than one occasion.

As for the topic at hand, I tend to find the things that we identify as masculine interests or female interests are social constructions rather than something rooted in our gender identity. There is nothing specifically female about enjoying playing with makeup, the prevalence of straight men in theatre points to that, not to mention how in previous historic eras wigs, skirts, blush and rouge were standard attire for a gentleman. Likewise there is also nothing inherently masculine about fixing cars or enjoying the outdoors. These are merely activities, it's only when viewed through the lens of the dominant culture. Challenging these sorts of gender essentialism is a major aim of third wave feminism and we're all freer for it.

Quote from: AnarchoChloe on March 01, 2013, 04:30:27 PM

As for the topic at hand, I tend to find the things that we identify as masculine interests or female interests are social constructions rather than something rooted in our gender identity. There is nothing specifically female about enjoying playing with makeup, the prevalence of straight men in theatre points to that, not to mention how in previous historic eras wigs, skirts, blush and rouge were standard attire for a gentleman. Likewise there is also nothing inherently masculine about fixing cars or enjoying the outdoors. These are merely activities, it's only when viewed through the lens of the dominant culture. Challenging these sorts of gender essentialism is a major aim of third wave feminism and we're all freer for it.

I agree. In fact, as we're learning in my fashion history class, one of the main reasons women took to fashion was it was one of the only areas in which they could control and express themselves. They weren't allowed to own anything, but they could own as many dresses as they could afford.

And as you say, men's fashion used to be just as elaborate as women's if not more. As far back as antiquity, men were wearing makeup.

I think there are way too many stereotypes.

I have been called a redneck because I have a southern accent and I must hate gays. lesbians, transgendered and so on.

I have been called a sissy because I have long hair, and don't care for the normal things that seem inclusive to male, like fishing, fast cars and so on.

I have been called a womanizer because I play a guitar in various bands and various levels of rock from Slayer to Chuck Berry.

I have been called a Satanist because of, again the guitar and genre of music. But when I pop out Amazing Grace or the Starspangled Banner on the ol' axe it's totally different to them.

I have been called a Christian because I may talk about it.

I've also been called straight and gay. Left wing and right wing. And countless other things.

The only thing that I can say in rock hard stone surity is that when we ass/u/me things.... Ya'll get the gist.

Quote from: AnarchoChloe on March 01, 2013, 04:30:27 PM
Brooke, sometimes your experiences mirror my own so closely that it scares me. Quite simply, I am transitioning because I can't drink enough to make the dysphoria recede into the background any more and the anguish of trying to exist in the wrong skin was more than enough to bring me to the brink on more than one occasion.

My "coping" mechanism was alcohol as well. I actually did not stop drinking like that till I tried to kill myself. After that, the realization of what was going on hit me real hard. That was just over a year ago actually. I hope you have been able to find your way out of it like I did. Life is so much better now than it ever was before.

If you ever want to/need to talk about anything, You are more than welcome to PM me.

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on March 01, 2013, 04:55:15 PM


And as you say, men's fashion used to be just as elaborate as women's if not more. As far back as antiquity, men were wearing makeup.

I want to go back to then.  The frock coat, the lacey shirts, the tights/pantaloons, the boots...All of it appeals greatly to me.  I want to run around wearing that.  But I can't because it's expensive and because it's not age-appropriate or even century-appropriate wear.

I'm a guy because I feel like a guy.  Not because of my interests which are androgyne if you had to stick a gender to them.  Now, saying how I feel like a guy is hard to put into words because it's just intrinsic.

Sounds like i have all this to come. only out to a couple of people so far and they dont count as they couldnt care less if i decided to paint myself blue and wear a wonderwoman outfit. They just accept whatever makes you you. Hopeing that everyone is like that. Doubtfull though. :angel:

Quote from: agfrommd on March 01, 2013, 12:48:15 PM
Can I take one more crack at this? I had so much trouble with this for such a long time, maybe talking about my experience helps.

When I'm in the presence of a bunch of women, whether or not we have anything in common, I feel like I belong. When I'm with a bunch of men, even if we share jobs, interests, etc., I feel like the odd one out. I'm drawn to books and movies about women, don't feel connected to those about men. This is true even if I don't have anything in common with the women there. When I see a woman wearing women's clothes and a female haircut, I think, "that's the way I'd like to look." I don't get that feeling with male clothes. And I feel like my body would be more "right" if it had female features and anatomy.

That's what it feels like having a female "gender" with a male body.

Does this help?

This is a very good description of how I feel, I can be around a group of men who love sci-fi & video games I feel like the odd one out, like an imposter.
when i'm around a group of women who I have nothing in common with I feel comfortable, like i'm "one of the girls"

I read lot's of sci-fi, in fact I have around 150 books in my collection & the 2 that resonate most with me are the Rama series & Moving Mars, Rama 2's main character who the books follow for the next few books is Nicole Des Jardin a woman stranded on the giant ship. Moving Mars is told from a womans point of view.
Having a female perspective or main character is extremely rare in Sci-fi books, this may explain why I've fond it harder to read even my favourite books since coming out

Quote from: Jayne on March 02, 2013, 05:22:31 PM
This is a very good description of how I feel, I can be around a group of men who love sci-fi & video games I feel like the odd one out, like an imposter.
when i'm around a group of women who I have nothing in common with I feel comfortable, like i'm "one of the girls"

I read lot's of sci-fi, in fact I have around 150 books in my collection & the 2 that resonate most with me are the Rama series & Moving Mars, Rama 2's main character who the books follow for the next few books is Nicole Des Jardin a woman stranded on the giant ship. Moving Mars is told from a womans point of view.
Having a female perspective or main character is extremely rare in Sci-fi books, this may explain why I've fond it harder to read even my favourite books since coming out

Interesting you say this, Jayne. I used to read only science fiction. Somewhere around ten years ago, long before I thought I might be trans, my mother lent me a book by one of her friends about her experiences as a wife and mother.

Totally alien to my own experience, but somehow I devoured it. I couldn't get enough, and I went right to the local library and started getting books out told from the point of view of women. It's like some kind of switch was turned on by reading that one book.

I can't read SciFi any more. I don't find it as interesting as I do my women's fiction.

Quote from: agfrommd on March 02, 2013, 05:33:00 PM
Interesting you say this, Jayne. I used to read only science fiction. Somewhere around ten years ago, long before I thought I might be trans, my mother lent me a book by one of her friends about her experiences as a wife and mother.

Totally alien to my own experience, but somehow I devoured it. I couldn't get enough, and I went right to the local library and started getting books out told from the point of view of women. It's like some kind of switch was turned on by reading that one book.

I can't read SciFi any more. I don't find it as interesting as I do my women's fiction.

I do lament my inability to get into my books nowdays so maybe I need to look to different genres, I used to read War of the Worlds every month or two but haven't read it for many months now & have often read Star Wars/Trek books in a day or two, i've tried reading several of my favourite books recently & get bored after a chapter or two, I just thought it was my depression causing this but maybe it isn't.

If you like good scifi, you should try Robert Heinlein's "I Will Fear No Evil." It's about an elderly industrialist who decides that in order to avoid dying he will have his brain implanted into a younger body. The rub is that he has a rare blood disorder that limits his donor pool considerably so has to wait until one of the small pool dies in order to get their body. After setting this program in motion he slips into a coma. One night while leaving the hospital after visiting him his secretary is attacked and killed and *surprise* her body is a match for him. The industrialist awakens in a young  body that is not at all what he expected, first because of the gender and second because it belonged to a good friend of his. Luckily it appears some shred of his former secretary's personality lingers on and she instructs him in all the little bits of womanhood that most natal-fems take for granted and he begins to accept his new life.

I haven't read it since high school, but I absolutely swooned over this book. It may be what you need to get back in the reading groove. I loved Nicole Des Jardin's character in the Rama series, she and the Shakespeare robots were stellar. I'll try to think of others that have good female lead characters, I know there are a ton on my shelves that I'm just not thinking of right now.