Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I did my best to explain the mental struggle I've been putting myself through, and I made as many comparisons to how I handled having Crohn's disease a few years ago since I think she'll respond well to that.

I'm at my parent's place for another hour or two, and my dad is somewhere else until mid-afternoon. I don't know if I should hope for her to check her email before I leave or when I'm at a safe distance an hour drive away...

Good luck!  I hope all goes well.

Thanks!  I ended up getting scared and going home... so far no reply.

 I know how coming out to a parent can be frightening. I hope all goes well for you.

Best of luck Anna, Hope all goes well for you.

Anna, I pray it goes well for you when she does read it. For me it was easier than I had expected when I finally confronted me Mom and to tell her that I was never her son.

Thanks girls, the support means a lot to me :).  I've warmed up by talking to some of my friends, so that helped me figure out what to say and remove a little bit of the fear.  I'm not expecting her to see the email until late tonight at this point.

I just got off the phone.  My mom was a little confused and a little shaky, but overall she sounded supportive.  She's encouraging me to get second opinions from other therapists, so I think I did a poor job explaining how the therapist is supposed to guide us into making our own decisions.  Oh well.

lol - That's pretty cute.

I'm glad that she seemed supportive.

Me too!  I'm going to have to do a better job educating her when I don't notice the phone ringing on my way to bed...

When I woke up I found an email with a bunch of follow-up questions.  She's trying to understand, so that's good... here is what she said and my responses so far.  Should I say anything more?

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I am trying to understand but it is hard.  The path you are proposing is a very difficult one considering our society and how the world works.  I feel you may be hurt more down this road than you realize.

Yes, that's possible and I was afraid of that for a long time.  Sure, there are a few immature jerks out there, but there are also a lot of kind, accepting people.  I think it's better for me to be the person I want to be, rather than the person everybody else expects me to be.

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You say you feel you have a female brain but you have no idea what is like to be a female and worry all the time about the ones you care for.  Can you explain what you mean by that please.  Why do you think this?  Remember all people have both male and female genes in them.  And all are unique souls.  Some men care for children, some like to cook, some like to be artistic, all unique.  And all have a feminine side.

It's a self-image thing.  In my head, I can only see myself as female and forcing myself to be male takes a lot of effort and usually leaves me feeling a bit disappointed.  I have no idea why this is, but it is.

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I believe many true gay people are born that way and exhibit those traits at a very early age.  You, however, confuse me by your statement since you never wanted girls toys, clothes, makeup, shoes, etc. at an early age.  So, my gut is telling me that this may be more of a choice rather than something you were born with. 

Some people realize it at an early age (3-4) and some later (20s or 30s).  I don't have a sister, so it's not like I had the girl-stuff available to me growing up.  I made the most with what I had, instead.  I've actually put in a lot of effort to distance myself from anything that my brain associates with "girl" because I don't want people to know what goes on in my head.  Silly example: I stopped wearing pajamas to bed around the same time girls started wearing pajamas to school because my brain said "that's I girl thing, I guess I don't do that anymore".

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Are you anatomically correct or is there an issue with the penis?  (Sorry to be so blunt but I have to ask the question.)

I'm on good terms with my penis, but testicles are gross and I do my best to avoid touching them.

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You seemed to be very happy with girlfriend-1 and girlfriend-2.  And I know you were very hurt by them as well.  Your friends, however, never left your side because thats how friends are.  I kind of suspect, however, that some of your friends who are gay are trying to encourage you to do the same.  Through their support and praise, I am sure they are pushing you in this direction.

What?  My gay friends have never encouraged me to do anything like that!  I didn't say anything to anybody until AFTER I started thinking about all this.  And actually, I didn't let any of this collapse on me until after I moved farther away from my friends so it's hard to blame them when I already see them much, much less than I used to.

And yes, I was happy with my ex-girlfriends.  Did you notice that people kept saying girlfriend-2 was a "female me" and then I got clingy and set up a "living through her" situation?  Of course I was happy, but I was also using her as an outlet.  I'm under the impression that dating is really supposed to be about who you want to be with, and not who you want to be.

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Thoughts I would consider.  As a mother I never want to see my kids suffer in any way.  That's why I am still up now.  I propose that you stop seeing any friends that may be encouraging you in this direction.  Try for at least a month.  You deserve that much.

So... don't change anything since this isn't something my friends are responsible for?

Well... it certainly appears that she is approaching it from a constructive perspective, and it's understandable that she might have a difficult time wrapping her head around the concept... I reckon many of us have just as difficult a time with the concept.

I really hope she comes around to full acceptance; and from a brief reading of her words, it seems as though she will.

Good luck!

Heh.  I just need to keep her from blaming my friends :)

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 11, 2013, 07:23:02 AM
Heh.  I just need to keep her from blaming my friends :)

Right. Poor friends... they have no clue what they've done.  ???

lol

We can have a study!  How much Mario Kart do you have to play with gay people until you turn trans? :laugh:

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 11, 2013, 07:34:12 AM
We can have a study!  How much Mario Kart do you have to play with gay people until you turn trans? :laugh:

:laugh:

I should probably add to my answer that gay guys would be more interested in me if I stay a guy, so it's not in their best interest to encourage me to be trans.

She just looking for something to blame my mom does this all the time. She alway has some theory to why I'm trans. I've heard it all from you may have been molested and have blocked it out of you mind to porn the kid next door showed me. I could go on and on its going to take time for her to come around at least that's been the case with my mom.

Wish I had more time to respond.  Main thing I want to say is I'd avoid referring to anything as silly or using other disparaging words.  I think that doing so risks undercutting your points.

Quote from: Misato33 on March 11, 2013, 09:12:32 AM
Wish I had more time to respond.  Main thing I want to say is I'd avoid referring to anything as silly or using other disparaging words.  I think that doing so risks undercutting your points.

Lesson learned:  Double-check Susans before pressing the "send" button in gmail...

Although I've been on HRT for a few years and got SRS surgery in August last year, I only fully came out to my 80 year old mother this past christmas (although she's been calling me her daughter for a long time because although I like being andro, I'm definitely on the female side of things)... I not only came out about being trans and getting the surgery, I also came out (along with my lovely wife) to being in a long-term poly relationship with a girl my mother has met but never realized what she was to us... lol! That was a fun conversation, aided by a box of wine. But she took it kinda like this: lots of questions, but thankfully, with less blaming other factors and more just trying to understand. The first point was a big one: personal safety. Undoubtedly trans people are at a far higher risk of personal harm than even just LGB people... but I also reminded her that a lot of those stats are a bit skewed by the sadly large amount of trans women working as escorts due to necessity (true stat, look it up), plus I don't really hang out in nightspots after midnight anymore, so that limits my risk. I also reminded her the suicide rate of untreated transpeople is also very high, so... also, why would I put myself into such danger without feeling it being the only only thing that would help me? She understood those points well, I thought, so maybe you can try them on your momma. Good luck.... but it sounds promising so far.

Thanks GendrKweer.  She's invited herself over for dinner tonight, so I'll keep your points in mind while talking to her.

Good luck Anna.  Stay positive!

You deserve to be you, and I must say I think you're handling yourself well overall.   You're coming off as patient and approachable, I also liked this in particular:

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 11, 2013, 07:12:07 AM
And yes, I was happy with my ex-girlfriends.  Did you notice that people kept saying girlfriend-2 was a "female me" and then I got clingy and set up a "living through her" situation?  Of course I was happy, but I was also using her as an outlet.  I'm under the impression that dating is really supposed to be about who you want to be with, and not who you want to be.

First, good point on what dating should be.  Second I do think it's a good story to help illustrate how you're just trying to go home.

I also liked the overall point of how you avoided things that were deemed for girls because you didn't want to let people clue into what was going on inside you.  I did the same thing when I was younger.  So yeah, it isn't silly, if anything the story of avoiding the pajamas shows how much you were paying attention to details!

Again, best of luck!

Good luck at dinner Anna, I hope it goes well. I'm glad your mom is asking questions, maybe she's at least trying hard to understand.  Just don't give up on yourself, your mom will be there for you!

Well, that was a major blow to my self confidence.

First, she walked me through childbirth and asked me why I would ever want to go through that.  Then she kept asking me probing questions into my sexuality that made me feel uncomfortable and put my guard up.  At one point she encouraged me to explore religion instead, and started saying "I'll only ever see you as my son.  I don't think I could ever accept... don't get a sex change".

She picked apart my personality and said "well, that's just the kind of GUY you are.  And there's nothing wrong with that"  then she suggested I worry about taking care of others instead of myself, and that maybe I should consider getting an animal.

What else...
- Poor treatment of women in third world countries came up
- What would the rest of the family say?
- Don't rush into anything (even if it's been on my mind for 12 years and I've been doing serious research for the last 3 or 4)
- Everybody is curious about what it's like to be the other gender
- Don't get a sex change (she said that a couple of times...)
- Getting sick with Crohn's disease in high school made me think this way
- I should get a girlfriend

I have a hard time explaining myself when my guard is up, and when it was obvious that she wasn't going to be as supportive as I hoped I started just going along with what she was saying hoping that the conversation would end and that she would go home.  The only positive thing I got out of it is her agreement that talking about problems is good and that I shouldn't keep them bottled up.

Blah.

I'm hesitant to give advice... just because* - But maybe if you made it clear to your mom that your mind is made up (assuming it is), and that you fully intend to transition, and that all giving you grief will accomplish is grief - It won't sway your intentions.

?

My Very Best - Sadie

* advice to anyone about anything serious - what the hell do i know about what's going on in their lives?

Oh that's rough.  Have things look relatively good then take a step back like that.  Good you realized you had your guard up though.  Probably helped things go better than they might have otherwise gone.

My mom did several bounces back and forth, but she's been coming round. 

It's hard if not impossible to take care of others when you're carrying this burden.

You took a major step. Could have gone better but the understanding that you should be talking about this, I think, is indeed a very positive note.

You noticed your guard was up.  You didn't let things get worse.  And now you have some things to react to with the lines of communication still open.  There is a lot of good here and you did well in a difficult situation.  Oh, you didn't abandon your transition either as evidenced by coming back here. That's good too!

Keep your chin up girl!  *Hugs*. It's tough, but I beleive in you!

Yes, I have made up my mind.  And I intend on keeping my consultation-appointment with my local endocrinologist in two weeks (although this may make me wait to start hormones until after our family vacation in early-May).  I think I need to regroup before I can try talking about this with my parents again.

Thanks for the support Sadie and Paige.  I really appreciate it right now :)

Don't give up Anna Michelle! I hope your mom will turn around. Let her have her little 'freak out'....then maybe once she sees how happy you are. She'll get on board especially once she realizes nothing will sway you. Good luck at your appointment.

I've come too far over the last few months to give up now.  This is a setback, but I feel a bit better after getting some sleep...  the "I could never accept you" comment still stings a bit :(

You can also explain to her that hormone therapy IS reversible in the first few/six months....this is important because quite a few people in our situation are not actually transgender, but instead have built up images/fetishized the opposite sex, etc, and once they start HRT and the testosterone (poison:) is reduced in their bodies, they realize whoa, I don't feel like I'm a woman anymore. However, for the rest of us, the feeling of joining our correct gender is amplified by HRT, so we keep going. It isn't like you'll go out and get the ahem chop next week... you'd be on HRT for a year or two most likely, with plenty of opportunities to stop. Maybe that'll make her feel better to hear?

Right, and I definitely want to see how I feel without testosterone in my system.

Now to spend the rest of the day worrying if I fall into the "what if it's just a fetish?" category :P

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 12, 2013, 07:37:40 AM
I've come too far over the last few months to give up now.  This is a setback, but I feel a bit better after getting some sleep...  the "I could never accept you" comment still stings a bit :(

I don't want to get you down but it is probably going to get worse before it gets better. At least that was the way it was in my situation. I've heard it all from my mom ranging from your going to hell to you will make an ugly woman oh and the I'll never accept you. But eventually when she seen I wasn't backing down she started to come around. She still not the point I would like but shes coming along. I guess the point I'm trying to make just because it seems bad now doesn't mean it will stay that way. Just give her time to come to grips with this she hurting right now and probably will be for a while so just let her vent and try not to take anything she says to personal. 

It's good to hear that things might eventually get better!  I'll keep my fingers crossed...  I'm an atheist, so the hell argument won't work on me :)

I wonder if I can try to use math / statistics to sway her...
Transitioning would give me peace of mind, even if I end up not liking it and backing off after a few months I would still know what it's like.  Expected value: some positive number.
Not transitioning would cause me to spend the rest of my life knowing that I got this close but didn't do it.  Expected value: some big negative number.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 12, 2013, 04:08:30 PM
It's good to hear that things might eventually get better!  I'll keep my fingers crossed...  I'm an atheist, so the hell argument won't work on me :)

Yeah it don't work on me ether.  :laugh:

Apparently my mom had a slow day at work, so she did more research and read about how important it is for parents to be supportive.  She called me today to say that she'll always love me, but that she doesn't know if she's mentally strong enough to go through my transition.  So that's progress since yesterday.

My mom responded initially the same way. Prepare for some rough patches but if you two pull through its for the better. Me and my mom are closer now and she tries her best to do mother daughter things with me.

I've got my fingers crossed on pulling through... the mother-daughter things would be great if she can figure out how to accept me.

... and now she's on a matchmaking site in my name, forwarding me profiles of girls I should try to talk to.  I still think that I need to be worrying about me right now, without the extra burden of learning about somebody else.

Anna,

I agree with you completely....the last thing you need right now is a girlfriend. You need to focus on YOU right now. I think your mom may just be 'grasping at straws' either trying to divert your focus somehow, or trying to make you happy with a girlfriend so you won't feel the 'need' to continue on with this.  if I were you, i'd just say,'mom, I appreciate the thought, but I'm just not interested right now.' I don't know, but maybe it could help to spend a little extra time with your mom so she doesn't feel like she's 'losing you'.  I'm still hoping all goes well for you:)

Yeah, a girlfriend is the last thing that you need atm. I chucked when I read that, because its a silly response, but I suppose fairly natural for a person in her shoes. :-)

I've been comparing how I felt before my last girlfriend to how I felt right before my "identity crisis" and I think I could have reached the point I'm at now a few years earlier had I not dated her.  I had already done a ton of research and learned a lot about the transgender life.  When I started dating her, I push everything to the back of my mind and did my best to forget about it.  I don't want to undo all the hard work you all have helped me with over the last few months :)

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 13, 2013, 08:49:12 PM
When I started dating her, I push everything to the back of my mind and did my best to forget about it.

Quite familiar to me.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 13, 2013, 08:49:12 PM
I've been comparing how I felt before my last girlfriend to how I felt right before my "identity crisis" and I think I could have reached the point I'm at now a few years earlier had I not dated her.  I had already done a ton of research and learned a lot about the transgender life.  When I started dating her, I push everything to the back of my mind and did my best to forget about it.  I don't want to undo all the hard work you all have helped me with over the last few months :)

Good thinking, or you may be starting right back at this point 3 years from now, if you get a new girlfriend and focus on a new relationship rather than yourself.

Here is the IM conversation I just had with her this morning.  Is there anything I could have done better?

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Mom: Good morning <male name>
Me: Hello
Mom: How are you today?
Me: I'm doing well.
Mom: I wish I could say that but I don't feel that way to be truthful.
Me: I'm sorry to hear that...
Mom: I feel like crying, stepping in front of a bus, running away to the wilderness.
Me: That's not good. Don't do any of those things!
Mom: but that's how I feel and I can't stop it
Me: Find something to distract you and take your mind off of things?
Mom: there is nothing since you have always been on my mind every day since forever
Me: That doesn't mean you can't find something else to do to let your thoughts regroup for a while
Mom: right
Me: obsessive thoughts will only drive you crazy, as you seem to be finding out...
Mom: yes and I've been down the rabbit hole many times in the past but this time you might as well cover up the hole
Mom: I have to stop talking to you now ....bye

My dad is coming out tomorrow for breakfast... I hope he doesn't want to chat about trans stuff public!

Lordy...  :-\  Mom is in full guilt-trip mode, huh?

Well... on the bright side, your dad's coming out gives you an ally.  ;)

Best of Luck!

Quote from: Sadie May on March 15, 2013, 10:31:04 AM
Lordy...  :-\  Mom is in full guilt-trip mode, huh?

Yup... I need to not let her bother me.  Like one of my friends just pointed out:  These are their problems, I've figured my stuff out.

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Well... on the bright side, your dad's coming out gives you an ally.  ;)

Hahaha!  Maybe I should have phrased it "my dad is coming over tomorrow"?

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Best of Luck!

Thanks!  I have no idea what to expect...

Wow, anna...yeah it does sound like a guilt trip, maybe if you don't relent she will get past this stage once she realizes you can't be guilted into stopping.  Hopefully your dad will be more supportive, it wouls be nice to have him as an ally in this...maybe he could help your mom thru it to or be a mediator type thing! Good luck with your dad.

If you have a therapist, maybe have your mom go with you one time and let him explain to her. Other than that, it doesn't really seem like she is badly judgemental or out and out hateful. Guilt trips are her own reasoning as to why you want to transition. I would suggest that you just have patience and explain why you want to transition. She may be even blaming herself. Try not to get offended because she, herself is confused and keeping a line of communication open should help a lot. Just listen to her questions and or reasons and then answer them. Hopefully your dad will be on your side.

Good luck.

Quote from: Jess42 on March 15, 2013, 11:18:16 AM
Guilt trips are her own reasoning as to why you want to transition.

Indeed, this ↑↑↑↑ is right on.

I read Non Violent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg and it gave me a lot to think about when dealing with guilt trips like this one.  You might find it to be of help in dealing with her.  From that conversation, in that moment, I don't know that we know what was motivating her.

Hope your breakfast with your dad goes well!  I think you'll do fine if trans topics come up too.  You've got a pretty good track record so far.

Quote from: spring0721 on March 15, 2013, 10:54:40 AM
Wow, anna...yeah it does sound like a guilt trip, maybe if you don't relent she will get past this stage once she realizes you can't be guilted into stopping.  Hopefully your dad will be more supportive, it wouls be nice to have him as an ally in this...maybe he could help your mom thru it to or be a mediator type thing! Good luck with your dad.

Hopefully he will be more supportive.  Expect posts from me tomorrow to summarize how it went!  I'd love to have some of my family on my side...

Quote from: Jess42 on March 15, 2013, 11:18:16 AM
If you have a therapist, maybe have your mom go with you one time and let him explain to her. Other than that, it doesn't really seem like she is badly judgemental or out and out hateful. Guilt trips are her own reasoning as to why you want to transition. I would suggest that you just have patience and explain why you want to transition. She may be even blaming herself. Try not to get offended because she, herself is confused and keeping a line of communication open should help a lot. Just listen to her questions and or reasons and then answer them. Hopefully your dad will be on your side.

Good luck.

I hope she gets over it, too.  If she keeps it up with the guilt trips I'm going to start believing that her love for me depends on my gender, and not who I am as a person!  Thanks for the luck :).

Quote from: Misato33 on March 15, 2013, 06:11:22 PM
Indeed, this ↑↑↑↑ is right on.

I read Non Violent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg and it gave me a lot to think about when dealing with guilt trips like this one.  You might find it to be of help in dealing with her.  From that conversation, in that moment, I don't know that we know what was motivating her.

Hope your breakfast with your dad goes well!  I think you'll do fine if trans topics come up too.  You've got a pretty good track record so far.

I haven't heard of it, but I'll look it up.  Thanks for the suggestion!

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 15, 2013, 08:59:41 AM
Here is the IM conversation I just had with her this morning.  Is there anything I could have done better?

No, this is something she has to deal with herself. She may pull through but she may also get stuck. The best you can do is reassure her that she has nothing to feel guilty about and that she did nothing wrong.

My mom said so many similar things after I came out, remember to them its like losing a child and that's what they see initially. If she can pull through the grief she will see that she really hasn't lost anyone and that you are happier. There are a lot of thoughts racing through her mind and fears especially. She obviously cares about you and she is responding in a way to try to protect you as good mothers do.

Here is the summary of my talk (lecture?) with my dad.

- I need to "grow a pair"
- I need to convince myself that I'm not a girl (I've spent the last 12 years trying to do just that!)
- He doesn't see it (Probably because I've spent my life being embarrased about what goes on in my head???)
- He loves me as his son, and I will be dead to him otherwise
- He has promised me that I will lose my job, home, all my friends and family, college degree and credit score
- He doesn't want to see me mess up my life (that one is understandable)
- He put me on the spot to name five notable TS girls and didn't give me a chance to explain that that's not really how going stealth works
- He has promised me that I will never get married because nobody would want to be with me
- I like Doctor Who, therefore I'm not trans
- I like Star Wars, therefore I'm not trans
- Transitioning would be a trainwreck
- All of you are nuts and he would never hire any of you for a job
- "We're not intolerant... well, yes we are"

By the end I needed to put in effort not to cry and I just wanted him to leave :(.  I'm going to go crawl into a hole for the rest of the day.

Hugs Anna. I'm sorry to hear that things are not going well with your parents acceptance. You have said all the right things to them. This is their hangup. Hopefully in time they will see how happy transitioning is making you, and will accept you for the beautiful woman that you are.

Quote from: Bethany Dawn on March 16, 2013, 10:50:39 AM
Hugs Anna. I'm sorry to hear that things are not going well with your parents acceptance. You have said all the right things to them. This is their hangup. Hopefully in time they will see how happy transitioning is making you, and will accept you for the beautiful woman that you are.

I hope so, too.  I guess only time will tell.

Fortunately, he's so far off the mark on so many of his points that I have a difficult time believing him.

Sounds like he's trying to scare you out of it. Sounds like a classic defensive response. Don't let it get to you or get you down. Stay strong and keep to your convictions.

Quote from: MaidofOrleans on March 16, 2013, 10:59:42 AM
Sounds like he's trying to scare you out of it. Sounds like a classic defensive response. Don't let it get to you or get you down. Stay strong and keep to your convictions.

I've been getting used to putting up with their FUD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt)

Quote from: Antonia J on March 16, 2013, 11:03:09 AM
I am so sorry for the pain and anguish you are going through.  It's not quite the same, but I came out to my wife recently, and the comments she made to me after were very similar to what you are experience with your parents.  Since that time we have good and bad days.  Unfortunately, this is a journey they need to travel and explore on their own.  We owe it to them to be honest and respectful of their questions, and journey to understanding us.  However, we do not need to tolerate abuse or disrespect ourselves.  Be true to yourself, talk to your therapist, and understand that you are still a good person.  Their reaction and pain are theirs alone, as much as you love and care about them.  If they can get past it, they may find a genuine, beautiful and honest relationship with a daughter they never had or knew existed.  That is for them to decide. 

Good luck, and be strong.  While you may feel caught in the maelstrom, this is about them, and not about you. 

I'll answer their questions the best I can, as long as they're willing to hear the answers.  I'm the one that has to live with me, they generally only see me once a month.  I really hope they can get past this...

One of my friends has always wanted an older sister and just offered to share his parents with me.  I'm tempted to take him up on his offer!

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 16, 2013, 10:27:34 AM
Here is the summary of my talk (lecture?) with my dad.

- I need to "grow a pair"
- I need to convince myself that I'm not a girl (I've spent the last 12 years trying to do just that!)
- He doesn't see it (Probably because I've spent my life being embarrased about what goes on in my head???)
- He loves me as his son, and I will be dead to him otherwise
- He has promised me that I will lose my job, home, all my friends and family, college degree and credit score
- He doesn't want to see me mess up my life (that one is understandable)
- He put me on the spot to name five notable TS girls and didn't give me a chance to explain that that's not really how going stealth works
- He has promised me that I will never get married because nobody would want to be with me
- I like Doctor Who, therefore I'm not trans
- I like Star Wars, therefore I'm not trans
- Transitioning would be a trainwreck
- All of you are nuts and he would never hire any of you for a job
- "We're not intolerant... well, yes we are"

By the end I needed to put in effort not to cry and I just wanted him to leave :(.  I'm going to go crawl into a hole for the rest of the day.

Putting you on the spot wasn't fair, let's see who we can come up with. Here's six notable women:

http://pinkessence.com/m/blogpost?id=1451021%3ABlogPost%3A656767 (http://pinkessence.com/m/blogpost?id=1451021%3ABlogPost%3A656767)

Our very own msrobyn-alice (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=22135) , working for the State Department, and The Most Successful Transgender Woman Ever! (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=23342)

Hang in there, hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on March 16, 2013, 01:12:45 PM
Putting you on the spot wasn't fair, let's see who we can come up with. Here's six notable women:

http://pinkessence.com/m/blogpost?id=1451021%3ABlogPost%3A656767 (http://pinkessence.com/m/blogpost?id=1451021%3ABlogPost%3A656767)

Our very own msrobyn-alice (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=22135) , working for the State Department, and The Most Successful Transgender Woman Ever! (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=23342)

Hang in there, hugs, Devlyn

Wow, six examples all in one convenient blog post!  Can I go back in time and see that blog post yesterday?

Thanks Devlyn :)

Crap.

My dad gave me the "dead to me" line too.  Same thing with the job concern.  It was this same pressure that derailed me round 2000 when I tried to transition.

It's not fair and it sucks and, even though as others pointed out it's their problem not yours, it still hurts.

*hhhhuuuuugggggggg*. Hang in there girl!

Thanks Paige :)

I'm not going to let it derail me, if anything this makes me want to prove them wrong.  Don't worry, I want to transition for more reasons than just to disprove my parents...

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 16, 2013, 02:10:11 PM
Thanks Paige :)

I'm not going to let it derail me, if anything this makes me want to prove them wrong. 

I was the same way every negative my mom would throw at the more determined I got. She thought she was discouraging me. :laugh: When in fact she was doing just the opposite. These times are tuff but you'll make it through.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 16, 2013, 02:10:11 PM
Thanks Paige :)

I'm not going to let it derail me, if anything this makes me want to prove them wrong.  Don't worry, I want to transition for more reasons than just to disprove my parents...

Quote from: Heather on March 16, 2013, 02:54:22 PM
I was the same way every negative my mom would throw at the more determined I got. She thought she was discouraging me. :laugh: When in fact she was doing just the opposite. These times are tuff but you'll make it through.

I don't regret getting derailed in 2000.  But, I did let it darken my relationship with my folks for something that was my own darn fault: Me chickening out.  I'm so happy neither of you will/are making the same mistake!

Stay strong my sisters! :)

Quote from: Misato33 on March 16, 2013, 03:11:40 PM
I don't regret getting derailed in 2000.  But, I did let it darken my relationship with my folks for something that was my own darn fault: Me chickening out.  I'm so happy neither of you will/are making the same mistake!

Stay strong my sisters! :)

I actually did get derailed back when I was a teenager. This is the second time I have come out. I'm a lot stronger now then I was when I was 15 so it was somewhat easier this time to stand up for myself.

Way to be supportive, Mom and Dad:

Quote
<Male name>:

The ball is now in your court.  Your dad and I are going to back off and let you think of what we have said and how we feel.  We have always cared for you and looked out for you, but now you have to decide.  We have fulfilled our parental duties and have done everything we can.  Are you going to listen to people on the internet who have never met you or a therapist who has only met you a few times or are you going to listen to your parents?  The choice is yours.

As your dad has said, if you choose to kill <male name>, we will NOT be there for you.  You will be completely on your own and not a part of our lives.  We will always love <male name> and will fight for him.  You know how to reach us if you want.

MOM

:eusa_wall:

I feel like I'm being punished for finally having the courage to confront my problems.  I doubt that's the life-lesson most parents want to give...

I've been following this thread pretty closely since I too just came out to my family. My in-laws responded much like your parents have. But they are in-laws...whaddya expect?

I just want to say I really feel for you. I don't completely understand how parents can respond this way. I can understand being confused, but not this blatant lack of support. It's incredibly hard to brave one's soul to those one would most logically expect unconditional love from - only to get shot down. I'm sending happy thoughts your way, and stern thoughts at your parents. I hope they realize what I mistake they are making.

I'm glad this is making you more determined and not bringing you down too much. You seem like a pretty awesome person.

This isn't right.  They're not even going to try.  This isn't right.

I'm sorry to ask but, is this even about gender?  "are you going to listen to your parents?" is such an odd thing to say to an adult.

UGH!  I can't stand this loving people only when it's easy nonsense!  Or, getting back to that "Growing a Pair" comment from earlier, do they think they're doing tough love?  Through this entire, what should have been discourse, there's been nothing from them to latch on to as to why they're really being this way.  It ain't concern for your well being, that's for sure.

I'm so sorry Anna, that's all I've got.  Unless we know where this, fear or whatever it is that's motivating them is coming from we're kinda stuck. :(

What's going through your head as possible next steps?

Quote from: ford on March 16, 2013, 11:31:19 PM
You seem like a pretty awesome person.

And I do second this!

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 16, 2013, 10:49:08 PM
Way to be supportive, Mom and Dad:

:eusa_wall:

I feel like I'm being punished for finally having the courage to confront my problems.  I doubt that's the life-lesson most parents want to give...

I'm sorry Anna This whole conversation you quoted sounded just like my mom in October. My mom outright accused me of trying to kill her son and she was not going to allow it. And the therapist thing too my mom blames my therapist for all this. Which I totally don't get since came out to them originally when I was 15. I'm sorry you are going through this because I know how you feel. Hopefully your parents will somewhat come around like mine have.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 16, 2013, 10:49:08 PM
Way to be supportive, Mom and Dad:

:eusa_wall:

I feel like I'm being punished for finally having the courage to confront my problems.  I doubt that's the life-lesson most parents want to give...

Big hug! I want to make three points. One, this is their initial reaction, their views will likely change. Two, if they don't, the burden of trying to gain acceptance is off of you, and you can move forward. Three, we love you, and accept you, and we don't give a rats ass what your parents think. Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: ford on March 16, 2013, 11:31:19 PM
I've been following this thread pretty closely since I too just came out to my family. My in-laws responded much like your parents have. But they are in-laws...whaddya expect?

That's disappointing,  I'm sending happy thoughts your way too!

Quote
I just want to say I really feel for you. I don't completely understand how parents can respond this way. I can understand being confused, but not this blatant lack of support. It's incredibly hard to brave one's soul to those one would most logically expect unconditional love from - only to get shot down. I'm sending happy thoughts your way, and stern thoughts at your parents. I hope they realize what I mistake they are making.

I'm glad this is making you more determined and not bringing you down too much. You seem like a pretty awesome person.

:D  Thanks!  I like to think I'm awesome too! :P  I hope they come around too, but right now I feel completely justified about spending a good portion of my life terrified of anybody finding out.

Quote from: Misato33 on March 16, 2013, 11:40:10 PM
I'm sorry to ask but, is this even about gender?  "are you going to listen to your parents?" is such an odd thing to say to an adult.

I assume so... but I really don't like the "it's our way or the highway" approach they're taking here.

Quote
UGH!  I can't stand this loving people only when it's easy nonsense!  Or, getting back to that "Growing a Pair" comment from earlier, do they think they're doing tough love?  Through this entire, what should have been discourse, there's been nothing from them to latch on to as to why they're really being this way.  It ain't concern for your well being, that's for sure.

I'm so sorry Anna, that's all I've got.  Unless we know where this, fear or whatever it is that's motivating them is coming from we're kinda stuck. :(

Maybe it's because I'm challenging their worldview and they don't like that?  It's difficult to say, but I wasn't expecting this kind of a reaction.

Quote
What's going through your head as possible next steps?

I need a break from them.  That'll give both me a chance to cool off and it'll give them a chance to cool off.  I'll probably put off starting hormones until after I get back from our family vacation in May (assuming I'm even still invited!).

Quote from: Heather on March 16, 2013, 11:40:22 PM
I'm sorry Anna This whole conversation you quoted sounded just like my mom in October. My mom outright accused me of trying to kill her son and she was not going to allow it. And the therapist thing too my mom blames my therapist for all this. Which I totally don't get since came out to them originally when I was 15. I'm sorry you are going through this because I know how you feel. Hopefully your parents will somewhat come around like mine have.

I almost convinced myself to start self medicating a few months before my first therapist appointment, so I'm pretty sure it's not her fault!  I'm really, really, really hoping they come around too... it's nice to know other parents have had the same reaction and eventually changed their minds.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on March 17, 2013, 07:03:21 AM
Big hug! I want to make three points. One, this is their initial reaction, their views will likely change. Two, if they don't, the burden of trying to gain acceptance is off of you, and you can move forward. Three, we love you, and accept you, and we don't give a rats ass what your parents think. Hugs, Devlyn

Thanks for the hug!  *hug back*  I guess I'll turn to everybody here instead of my parents for a while.  Right now I like you all better :).  I have an easier time listening to people who have been in my position before than I do listening to my parents, since transgender issues have only been on their mind for a week.

Well... shoot! I'm very sorry that this was their reaction, Anna.

I guess ultimately this is about you, however.

(If it was about them you would have said, "Mom... Dad... I've decided to become You.")

Hugs - Sadie

Quote from: Sadie May on March 17, 2013, 10:04:16 AM
Well... shoot! I'm very sorry that this was their reaction, Anna.

I guess ultimately this is about you, however.

(If it was about them you would have said, "Mom... Dad... I've decided to become You.")

Hugs - Sadie

And that's really what it comes down to...  I need to live the life I want, even if it doesn't match what other people have planned for me.

Anna Michelle, I'm sorry it didn't go well with your dad and this may sound harsh and the main reason being that it is harsh. At least you have tried to keep a line of communication open but once you hit a brick wall, it does no good banging your head and hoping that it will fall down.

The seemingly selfish part is that you have to do for YOURSELF what makes you happy. If they want to cut all ties and end their relationship with you, let'em. Believe me, it will be their loss. They are right, and I assume that you are over 18yrs old, they have fullfilled their obligations to you. They raised you, didn't let you starve to death, clothed you, provided you with love (even if not unconditional now) and so on. It is you now that will have the obligations when they get older and if they refuse to see or accept that and want to cut the ties, it won't be your fault but rather their own. They really need to understand that even though they gave birth to you, your life is your own to live, not theirs.

You can still help them when they are older, even now, and actually you really should. You know all the Karma and stuff. Don't hate them even though you are angry and hurt. Genetic family really don't mean much, it's just a group of people sharing the same genes that you are born into, so their argument about losing family and friends is kinda' weak. You can have family and friends and if they don't accept you, there are plenty of others that will.

It seems to me that you have come to the crossroads and have to decide to go however way you want to follow. If they want to cut ties, let them. Let it be known that it is fine with you. From what they wrote that you posted, it seems to me like threats. Put the "ball back in their court" and say something like "sorry and I really hate to lose the relationship and really can't believe that you can't unconditionally love your own child but I have to go my own way." That would be throwing the guilt back to them and maybe let them see that it is indeed serious.

I have not cut ties with my family in an out and out way because of anger or differing poinst of view and I do love the family that I genetically belong to. But I have also dissappered from that family for years and no one even knew if I was alive or dead because I felt I had to make my own way and live on my own terms unhindered. I've never really felt any obligations to genetic family other than help when they need it and to parents in thier old age. I don't have to agree with them or they me but mutual respect is something all families need to have for one another. Maybe I'm lucky in this sense.

Sometimes you can only talk and do so much. When it starts getting unproductive and the other person/people shut down from trying to understand or start making threats to manipulate you for their own purposes, there's really not a whole lot more that you can do. I won't lie to you, it will hurt and hurt really bad emotionally if they decide to end the relationship with you but it won't kill you. If you need familial support, seek out like minded individuals to share your life with and who will accept you unconditionally because that is what real family is supposed to be about.

What I wrote is in no way right or wrong or what you should or shouldn't do but rather how I would handle the situation. Sometimes we do have to be "seemingly" selfish and live our lives according to what makes us happy with ourselves.

I wish you the best of luck to handle situation. When it comes down to it, be the stronger of the two parties, don't lose your cool. Let them see that you are confident and content with who you are. It may actually concrete the realization to your parents and they may start coming around. You still may have to give them time so be extremely patient. Be ready for whatever happens with whether they do cut all ties with you or want to salvage the relationship. Either way, I wish you the best.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 16, 2013, 10:27:34 AM
- All of you are nuts and he would never hire any of you for a job

I would love to send him my resume! Show him the type of employee he is missing out on by being like that.

Text from my mom:

QuoteCall us tonight please. We met with you, identified problems and solutions and we need to know which path you are going to choose

I get the feeling I'm about to be disowned...

Nah, you're always part of this family. Hugs, Devlyn

I hate to say it but this is pretty garden variety bs. They're scared and confused out of their wits, and instead of confronting their feelings and coming to terms with them they're lashing out at you. They're falling back on old manipulative parenting tricks you'd use on a kid to try to gain control of the situation and make things the way they want them to be - all so they dont have to deal with their uncomfortable emotions. This isn't going to be an easy process for them, but they are not doing themselves any favors by taking any of the routes they're taking. I'm sorry you have to deal with this at all, though. Even if its kind of typical it's a painful process.

For what it's worth, if I were in your shoes I'd stick firm to the following script when talking to your parents: "I love you. I want you two to be a part of my life, but if you dont want to be I will have to accept it. Even if I'm not always accepted in your house, you will always be accepted in mine. I love myself for who I am and intend to live my life to the fullest as who I really am inside." Or something to that affect. The key is to stick to it. Expect them to be hostile, and anticipate their reactions before you speak to them. Stand firm no matter what. Good luck. I hope your parents come around. They very well might.

Thanks you two.  I'm stalling until after dinner so I have a chance to write down what I want to say so if my mind blanks out I'll still have something in front of me to work from.  I'll make sure I add in something similar to what you just said, Chris.

We're here if you need us. Keep your notes simple. If you blank it sucks trying to look at complicated sentences, because anxiety has a nasty way of making it hard to read and comprehend things. Theres no need to get pulled into arguments about whether or not trans* is real or not. Just stick to what matters:

-I am female.
-I will live as female. It makes me happy.
-I love my parents.
-I want my parents in my life.

I second ChrisJ... I think they are doing their best to manipulate you.  I have been I  this position and my answer was and would still be ... (firstly tell them that you are not listening to ppl from the Internet that you dont know and a therapist who doesnt know you anymore than you are listening to parents who have no experience of this, you are listening to yourself and the way you have felt all your life and all the research you have done) ... I am sorry you feel that way, personally I could never cut off my own child just because of the way they look, dress or choose to live, but I suppose we will not understand the choices each other make. You know I think ur awsome tho right?:-)

Steph :-)
X

I am not good at maintaining control of the conversation when talking to my parents.  Here are my notes:

- Why do I want to hurt them?
- They raised me to be straight, narrow and moral
- I should try depression medicines
- Transitioning and hormones go against nature
- I am not a medical doctor and I cannot self diagnose
- I don't realize how hard it is for them to hear
- I need to figure out where "male me" is and not cover "him" up
- I need to fight for the male me
- Maybe this is something I picked up subliminally from the TV
- Things have settled down since I moved and it should have gone away by now
- Mom is convinced I'll kill myself by taking hormones
- I didn't get emotional during the conversation (even though I was quietly simmering on my end)
- Don't I value their opinions?
- I need to stay off of informational sites (no way I'm leaving here)

The have conceded that they've thought about the possibility they could be wrong.  I did say a few times that I will ultimately do what I feel is best, even if they don't agree.

... and now my eye won't stop twitching.

As I'm sure you know transition ain't about them.  How self centered of them to think so!  And they seem to not think much of you for thinking the TV could make you trans, even if subliminally.

I don't want to pick on your parents or anything the like. They just seem out to control you.  And very selfish.

And if transition and hormones go against nature, nature sucks!

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

The have conceded that they've thought about the possibility they could be wrong.  I did say a few times that I will ultimately do what I feel is best, even if they don't agree.

... and now my eye won't stop twitching.

Well. I give your parents points for creativity. Subliminal messages on TV convincing you to become a woman? That's a new one.

But, all in all I have to give them some real credit for them admitting that they might possibly be wrong. I'd hang onto that. Its a sign they might come around. And you stood your ground while letting them vent their feelings and be heard. So you've done all you could.

Have you thought about giving them space for awhile?  Maybe they just need a cooling off period (and you need a break from the third-degree interrogation, it sounds like).

My friends just suggested that, too.  I definitely need some space, and I'm sure they do to (even if they don't realize it yet).  I'd like to go on our family vacation in May, but if they're still hostile after that then I'm going to cut back on contact with them.

Sorry, I am going to have to, in order to stop arguing with my computer screen address some of these at least....

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM
I am not good at maintaining control of the conversation when talking to my parents.  Here are my notes:

- Why do I want to hurt them?

Yes - I should live the life you want me to, so you feel good about it.

Quote

- Transitioning and hormones go against nature

So does wearing clothes, driving cars and use of telephone and email - so I am afraid I am going to have to terminate this conversation now :-P

Quote
- I should try depression medicines

I would love to but they go against nature.

Quote
- I don't realize how hard it is for them to hear

Yeah where as admitting it to others was easy, and clearly it is better to live your life according to somebody elses values and desires, so that they don't have to hear anything they don't like.

Quote
The have conceded that they've thought about the possibility they could be wrong.  I did say a few times that I will ultimately do what I feel is best, even if they don't agree.

Have you thought about following this up with scientific studies?

Maybe reverse the psychology on them, and let them know that their arguing each point with you is actually firming up your ideas and commitment in your mind. Just a thought. I haven't really thought that through, but it does seem that it could get them to ease up on the pushing as it actually genuinely does often have the opposite effect.

Quote
... and now my eye won't stop twitching.

Deep breathes. Hugs

Steph
x

Quote from: Jess42 on March 18, 2013, 08:16:49 AM
You can still help them when they are older, even now, and actually you really should. You know all the Karma and stuff. Don't hate them even though you are angry and hurt. Genetic family really don't mean much, it's just a group of people sharing the same genes that you are born into, so their argument about losing family and friends is kinda' weak. You can have family and friends and if they don't accept you, there are plenty of others that will.

I like that everybody keeps telling me that.  I honestly have an easier time believing and listening to my friends than I do my parents.  Maybe me transitioning will help my parents become better people!

Quote
It seems to me that you have come to the crossroads and have to decide to go however way you want to follow. If they want to cut ties, let them. Let it be known that it is fine with you. From what they wrote that you posted, it seems to me like threats. Put the "ball back in their court" and say something like "sorry and I really hate to lose the relationship and really can't believe that you can't unconditionally love your own child but I have to go my own way." That would be throwing the guilt back to them and maybe let them see that it is indeed serious.

I'm getting to the point where I might do this - even if it's just temporary so both sides can cool off.

Quote
I wish you the best of luck to handle situation. When it comes down to it, be the stronger of the two parties, don't lose your cool. Let them see that you are confident and content with who you are. It may actually concrete the realization to your parents and they may start coming around. You still may have to give them time so be extremely patient. Be ready for whatever happens with whether they do cut all ties with you or want to salvage the relationship. Either way, I wish you the best.

Thanks for the luck and the advice.  I've got some serious thinking to do about how to handle them.

Quote from: Misato33 on March 18, 2013, 07:22:21 PM
I don't want to pick on your parents or anything the like. They just seem out to control you.  And very selfish.

Pick on them all you want!  It'll make me feel better...

Quote from: ChrisJ on March 18, 2013, 07:33:46 PM
But, all in all I have to give them some real credit for them admitting that they might possibly be wrong. I'd hang onto that. Its a sign they might come around.

I hope so... I really, really hope so.  It would be nice to have my family support me through this.

Quote from: Steph21 on March 18, 2013, 08:07:38 PM
Sorry, I am going to have to, in order to stop arguing with my computer screen address some of these at least....

<snip>

Maybe reverse the psychology on them, and let them know that their arguing each point with you is actually firming up your ideas and commitment in your mind. Just a thought. I haven't really thought that through, but it does seem that it could get them to ease up on the pushing as it actually genuinely does often have the opposite effect.

Haha!  I like your replies!  I wish I had thought of some of them while I was on the phone...

Majority vote is that I should take a break from them for a while.  After that, if they're still being difficult I can point out that all they're doing is making me want to prove them wrong.  I hope this goes well.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- Why do I want to hurt them?

Why do they want you to suffer for their comfort?

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- They raised me to be straight, narrow and moral

Gender identity has nothing to do with nurture, it's nature. Nothing they could have done would have changed you. Plus who wants to be narrow anyways. Wicked people are narrow.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- I should try depression medicines

Not a bad idea, i'm taking some myself to keep my spirits up but it wont cure your feelings.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- Transitioning and hormones go against nature

And depression meds don't  ::). All medicine goes against nature, if we let nature have it's way we'd all be fragged.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- I am not a medical doctor and I cannot self diagnose

Most medical doctors know about as much about being transgender as the homeless guy talking to himself on the street corner. It's too complicated to be measured or graded and sufficient research has not been done for their to be serious formal diagnoses.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- I don't realize how hard it is for them to hear

Again it's about them and not you. This happened with my parents a lot in the early stages. Classic "every man for themselves" mentality, selfish, cruel.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- I need to figure out where "male me" is and not cover "him" up

I think you need do that except with the female you because that's obviously what makes you happy and happiness is everything.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- I need to fight for the male me

and you will lose...if not now then later, we all do.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- Maybe this is something I picked up subliminally from the TV

I lol'd. Their are trans people who don't have TVs because they live in third world countries where they can't afford one. Maybe the government hacked their brain?

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- Things have settled down since I moved and it should have gone away by now

It never goes away.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- Mom is convinced I'll kill myself by taking hormones

So was my mom, except hormones are natural and not a poison. Many people take them without issues.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- Don't I value their opinions?

If you didn't value their opinions you wouldn't bother talking to them about it in the first place.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- I need to stay off of informational sites (no way I'm leaving here)

Ya who needs information  ::) lets just be blind and ignorant and it will go away right?

The bottom line is to hold the line with them. They will either flee and abandon you or act like loving parents and stand with you. Hopefully the latter.

 

Good answers MaidOf Orleans. Except for the one with the "all medicine goes against nature". Nature provides natural medicines to cure all of or ills mental and physical. It's just that most of them are deemed "illegal". Marijuana will help for things like glaucoma, back pains, anxiety and so on. The Incans chewed on Cocoa leaves before going into battle so that if injured, they could fight through the pain. If you have a headache, chew on the inner bark of the willow tree. It's nature's aspirin. And the list goes on. With the proper knowledge of plants and more lax laws, nature could probably help us and heal us more than big pharma ever could or will.

Anna Michele. It is a good sign that they may be reconsidering their views. But don't get your hopes up too high though because they can very well convince themselves otherwise. I, personally, wouldn't go with them on a family vacation until there is less tension between you guys. That is just my opinion though. If you do, I would definately handle my own transportation arrangements so if there is fighting or more guilt trips, you have the option to leave early. Don't get yourself trapped in a position that you have no options to get out of.

Quote from: MaidofOrleans on March 18, 2013, 11:45:46 PM
Not a bad idea, i'm taking some myself to keep my spirits up but it wont cure your feelings.

I think I'll pass on the anti-depressants for now.  The time between accepting myself and being rejected by my parents was the longest sustained happy feeling I've had in a really long time.  Hopefully I can get back to that :)

My mom is continuing to send me regret stories and information about depression centers, so I've decided I need a break from them.  Here is the email I just sent:

Quote
There are too many heightened emotions on both sides, and it is keeping us from having a rational conversation. I don't need this constant stream of negativity, and you need time to process this information about myself that I have shared with you. I've decided that it is best for us to take a break from each other, so I'm not going to respond to anything until at least April 3rd. I hope that you will take this time to try opening your mind and your heart a little more.

I only live an hour away from my parents, so to thwart any unexpected visits I spent this evening changing my locks.

I like that you set a concrete date.  Also like the break on the whole.  Something had to be done to stop the momentum.

Here is the reply:

Quote
Constant stream of negativity?  Rational conversation?  I hope you take time to see that you are closing your eyes and ears to help.  You are looking through a prism that is distorting your brain.

I don't know what the significance is to April 3. 

I remember being told in Discrete Mathematics, of all places, that in order to have a productive discussion with someone the participants have to be operating from the same set of axioms.  You're/we're coming from a place of transition will be a healing.  They are coming from a place of transition will destroy.  They are also creating a self-fufilling prophecy by putting their needs ahead if yours.

A break remains a good idea.  They need time in the corner, as it were, to think about what they've done, what's really important and what is true.

Good move. Hopefully the break will give them some time to cool off and rethink things.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 19, 2013, 10:41:40 PM
  The time between accepting myself and being rejected by my parents was the longest sustained happy feeling I've had in a really long time.  Hopefully I can get back to that :)

Don't worry you will its just going to take time. But it will get better over time and your parents want be like this forever once the shock of you coming out wears off. It will get better but things will never be the same as they were before. There was a point when I thought being accepted by my parents was impossible but I was wrong and things have slowly gotten better. Just give it time the fact that they are trying to communicate means they do care for you and are less likely to disown you.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- Why do I want to hurt them?

You're not the one that's hurting them. It's the truth coming out which is painful, you're just the messenger. It's the unfulfilled expectations which cause much of the pain.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM
- They raised me to be straight, narrow and moral

But being yourself, being able to function as yourself, and coming across as being yourself and authentic trumps any morality.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- I should try depression medicines

Sure they can be useful or supportive in stressful times but they aren't any sort of solution.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- Transitioning and hormones go against nature

Nature chose you to be who you are so I don't see how transitioning and hormones go against it. The choice has already been made.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- I am not a medical doctor and I cannot self diagnose

Until medical science develops a way of accurately reading someone's mind and making genes visible all we have to go on are what is presented to us by patients.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- I don't realize how hard it is for them to hear

They don't realize (probably) just how hard it's been for you up to this moment in time. The truth isn't just painful, it can also be difficult to cope with. But the thing about pain and suffering is that it comes attached to growth and healing.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- I need to figure out where "male me" is and not cover "him" up

What if the 'male you' simply doesn't exist, and if it does is no more than an illusion?

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- I need to fight for the male me

You don't need to fight for anything. You just need to be yourself openly, honestly and without hiding it or keeping it a secret.

Why fight to continue living a lie? 

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- Maybe this is something I picked up subliminally from the TV

This strikes me as strange coming from two people who probably accepted two male cops running round in black leather, pantie girdles and pantyhose as 'normal' (Batman and Robin).

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- Things have settled down since I moved and it should have gone away by now

There is no such word as 'should' when it comes to these matters. People move on when they're ready to move on and they do what they need to do.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- Mom is convinced I'll kill myself by taking hormones

Accepted that there are a few risks with taking hormones but there are also precautions which you can take which ensure hormones are safe. You can only really kill yourself by taking hormones if you smoke heavily, drink heavily and develop a blood clot in the wrong place.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- Don't I value their opinions?

I think this can be roughly translated as 'Why don't you do as we expect you to rather than what you need to?'

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- I need to stay off of informational sites (no way I'm leaving here)

How else are you going to learn and make informed decisions?

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM
The have conceded that they've thought about the possibility they could be wrong.  I did say a few times that I will ultimately do what I feel is best, even if they don't agree.

Welcome to the harsh reality of transitioning, it comes with varying degrees of emotional pain.

It's unfortunate because it comes at a time when you need the support and also the reassurance that you have them on your side, and they also might need support because they're shocked and angry and afraid and nothing can change these things other than taking the opportunity to get to know you as you really are inside and out.

I think it's wise that you give them time to come to terms with the truth and instead I would focus on your journey and the positive supportive people in your life.

I think the bottom line about coming out is that when you do you give people a choice over whether they accept you for you and continue the relationship or they stick with the illusion of who you presented yourself as never really knowing you as you are deep inside.

I would stay focussed on the positives. Pain and hurt comes with growth and healing but this needs time, and some people need the benefit of hindsight. You do have positive friends in your life and a support network.

I lost most of my family and friends through transitioning but a few remained, and these remained generally through thick and thin.

Reply #2:

Quote
I can accept that you may think differently but I will NOT accept you physically changing yourself into a woman. You are NOT a woman any more than I am a black man.

I am meeting your brother at a restaurant for Easter 3/31. If you are not attending and he asks where his brother is, should I tell him?

So I need to talk to my brother soon.  I don't like feeling like they're forcing my hand here...

Maybe they should tell him the TV subliminally forced you to think ur a woman? Lol.  See where that gets them?

I am still u sure if the mean a television or a transvestite hypnotist! Lol

Quote from: Steph21 on March 20, 2013, 06:27:15 PM
Maybe they should tell him the TV subliminally forced you to think ur a woman? Lol.  See where that gets them?

I am still u sure if the mean a television or a transvestite hypnotist! Lol

Don't forget backwards through time!  Their claim that TV subliminally influenced me backwards through time sounds like crazy talk to me.

Quote from: Misato33 on March 20, 2013, 10:52:14 AM
I remember being told in Discrete Mathematics, of all places, that in order to have a productive discussion with someone the participants have to be operating from the same set of axioms.  You're/we're coming from a place of transition will be a healing.  They are coming from a place of transition will destroy.  They are also creating a self-fufilling prophecy by putting their needs ahead if yours.

It's weird thinking that something I'm seeing as "dream come true" and they're seeing it as the end of my life. 

Quote
A break remains a good idea.  They need time in the corner, as it were, to think about what they've done, what's really important and what is true.

Quote from: Heather on March 20, 2013, 03:45:24 PM
Don't worry you will its just going to take time. But it will get better over time and your parents want be like this forever once the shock of you coming out wears off. It will get better but things will never be the same as they were before. There was a point when I thought being accepted by my parents was impossible but I was wrong and things have slowly gotten better. Just give it time the fact that they are trying to communicate means they do care for you and are less likely to disown you.

I hope so, I really do.  I feel horrible about having to cut them out like this, even if it is only for two weeks :(.  I've never had to do this before...

Quote from: StellaB on March 20, 2013, 04:55:08 PM
Accepted that there are a few risks with taking hormones but there are also precautions which you can take which ensure hormones are safe. You can only really kill yourself by taking hormones if you smoke heavily, drink heavily and develop a blood clot in the wrong place.

I think their biggest concern is that it could set off a Crohn's disease flare-up.  I'm worried about that, too, and I plan on asking doctors if anything has been studied about people who transition with Crohn's (even if mine is under control).  I don't plan on starting anything until I know it's safe.

Quote
Welcome to the harsh reality of transitioning, it comes with varying degrees of emotional pain.

Thanks... I'd say I'm happy to be here, but I guess I need to get used to it instead.

Quote
I think it's wise that you give them time to come to terms with the truth and instead I would focus on your journey and the positive supportive people in your life.

I think the bottom line about coming out is that when you do you give people a choice over whether they accept you for you and continue the relationship or they stick with the illusion of who you presented yourself as never really knowing you as you are deep inside.

I would really like them to accept me as their offspring, and not only as their son.  They've said some harsh things, but if they change their tone I'll be more than happy to forgive and move on.

Quote
I would stay focussed on the positives. Pain and hurt comes with growth and healing but this needs time, and some people need the benefit of hindsight. You do have positive friends in your life and a support network.

I lost most of my family and friends through transitioning but a few remained, and these remained generally through thick and thin.

The support network is really, really useful now.  I didn't realize that coming out to parents would be so much more difficult than coming out to friends!  I hope the family you lost eventually comes around, too.

I think it would be good to reach out to your brother.  Maybe you'll find an ally there?  Better you try to draft him first instead of your parents.

I agree.  He needs to hear it from me and not from my parents.

Here is an update after my two week break from my parents.  I sent this email last night:

Quote
Hi Mom and Dad,

It's been two weeks, how are you both doing? I have been keeping busy with friends and work, and I had fun in Chicago last weekend.

I hope things are going well on your end!

And the reply I got was:

Quote
Seriously?  Do you feel the presence of Archangel Michael around you?

MOM

I have no idea what she means by this or how to reply to it.  The best I can guess is that she's referring to my Uncle Michael who left home the day after he turned 18 (it was raining the day of) and has pretty much done his own thing his entire life.

I think the perfect reply would be:

"What?"

Quote from: ChrisJ on April 04, 2013, 10:06:31 AM
I think the perfect reply would be:

"What?"

...or to ignore it and go live a happy and authentic life of your choosing.

Quote from: ChrisJ on April 04, 2013, 10:06:31 AM
I think the perfect reply would be:

"What?"

That's what some of my friends are saying, too.  I'll probably send something along the lines of "I don't understand what you mean by that"

Quote from: Antonia J on April 04, 2013, 10:16:00 AM
...or to ignore it and go live a happy and authentic life of your choosing.

Well, I'm going to live a happy life of my choosing anyway.  It would just be nice to have my parents on my side :)

I would ignore it. And if you havent by now googled it ( I have because of my stupid curious nature) here is what this references. Take it however you see fit.

From wikipedia:

QuoteIn the New Testament Michael leads God's armies against Satan's forces in the Book of Revelation, where during the war in heaven he defeats Satan. In the Epistle of Jude Michael is specifically referred to as an "archangel". Christian sanctuaries to Michael appeared in the 4th century, when he was first seen as a healing angel, and then over time as a protector and the leader of the army of God against the forces of evil.

Im not religious so I find it comical I cant speak for others though.

Quote from: Erin S on April 12, 2013, 05:34:44 AM
Im not religious so I find it comical I cant speak for others though.

I'm not religious either, so I have no idea why my mom thought it would work on me (maybe she's in denial about that as well? :/).

I've decided I'm not going to reply to anything unless it says "We don't care about your gender anymore, we want YOU back in our lives.  We are sorry for the way we reacted"

Don't hold your breath. Sometimes parents just get in this rut that circles the thought: what have we done to deserve this? what could we have done differently to avoid this disappointment? why is my child hurting me like this?

You and I know how damn selfish it is for them to think these things, but believe you me, it comes up. Even with my very accepting mother, once or twice early on, it reared up. We got over it, I explained to her it was selfish on her part to bring MY mental/medical issue back to her, and she ended up getting that. But yeah, don't wait for spontaneous anything from them in a positive light, I'd say. If you take a breather for a while, then come back and make the effort to change their hearts and minds a bit more, then back off and regroup, then try again, rinse and repeat. Tough stuff, but prolly the only way. And if they are throwing bible quotes around, well, that might really be a lost cause.

Well what I think she means by the whole presence of the Archangel Michael thingy is that she has been praying and that she feels God will send the Archangel Michael to you to help guide you back to a righteous path, i.e. she thinks you are being seduced by evil thoughts or some type of demon and that Michael will save you and you're no longer be Trans. If you are not religious, you'll need a level of cognitive dissonance to understand it.

I wouldn't bank on anything if she is praying to God to save you from being Trans. I guess I could be wrong about this. 

It can be quite confusing.

I wish I could come up with a mature well constructed responce but at the moment I cannot, Hopefully what I will say isn't too mean but what I am taking away from your situation is that at least for now you're parents are selfish immature morons.

Again sorry if that is too harsh towards your parents but that is how their comments have made me feel I can only imagine how bad it was for you the person who experienced them first hand.

In regards to my family I think my parents are supportive, certainly didn't react like your's did. But then if they did react that way I'd be screwed as I live with them and do not for see my being able to afford my own place any time soon.

Quote from: GendrKweer on April 12, 2013, 11:04:10 AM
If you take a breather for a while, then come back and make the effort to change their hearts and minds a bit more, then back off and regroup, then try again, rinse and repeat. Tough stuff, but prolly the only way. And if they are throwing bible quotes around, well, that might really be a lost cause.

I'm enjoying this breather so far :).  Life is just so much better when I don't have to hear people lecture about how they know more about what goes on in my head than I do...

Quote from: Joanna Dark on April 15, 2013, 02:36:13 PM
Well what I think she means by the whole presence of the Archangel Michael thingy is that she has been praying and that she feels God will send the Archangel Michael to you to help guide you back to a righteous path, i.e. she thinks you are being seduced by evil thoughts or some type of demon and that Michael will save you and you're no longer be Trans. If you are not religious, you'll need a level of cognitive dissonance to understand it.

Oh Zarquon... I honestly liked it better when I thought she was talking about my Uncle.  Praying for it to go away might seem like a good thing if I was still in denial, but I don't want being trans to go away now because then I can't become the girl I've spent half my life wanting to be.

Quote from: EmeraldPerpugilliam on April 15, 2013, 03:38:57 PM
I wish I could come up with a mature well constructed responce but at the moment I cannot, Hopefully what I will say isn't too mean but what I am taking away from your situation is that at least for now you're parents are selfish immature morons.

Again sorry if that is too harsh towards your parents but that is how their comments have made me feel I can only imagine how bad it was for you the person who experienced them first hand.

In regards to my family I think my parents are supportive, certainly didn't react like your's did. But then if they did react that way I'd be screwed as I live with them and do not for see my being able to afford my own place any time soon.

Sounds like you're lucky, I'm happy for you :).  I'm used to hearing mean things about my parents now, so I'm not taking any offense.  My parent's reaction pissed off the real-life friends that I'm out to and they've said some not-nice things too.

Well it barely(ie rarely) gets discussed, occasionally I will mention something related but it doesn't go far so I haven't really had a chance to assess what they really think other than a few comments like such classics as "I don't really understand it" "Could your friends have put these thoughts in your head" But nothing hostile. They haven't protested me starting HRT and my dad takes me to my endo appointments so that helps.

I really hope it all settles itself for you. To loosely quote a song "When will they open their eyes and see what they've done" slight adjustments made. :)

Well, here is everything that has happened over the last few days.  My mom sent me this:

QuoteAre you back to being <male name> yet?

I replied with "No. And I really don't want to spend the week [while on vacation] getting lectured, either. Can I please have my airplane tickets refunded?"

She first replied with:

Quote
I suppose you will have to call me since you choose not to answer your phone if you want your plane info.

What exactly do you want from me? How can you expect me to change how I feel about you when I know you no other way?

Are we all to act like we are all dead to each other and or that we never existed?

I don't understand why you hate us so much when we have done so much for you including paying for your school, helping you get your car, working on your condo, paying for some of the expenses to your condo, paying for your medical bills. Are you going to refund us for all the time and money we gave you?

As my friends and I were working on a reply she also sent this:

Quote
FYI ... here is the cancellation policy. Since I originally made the reservation, I will keep the credit to my account. I am also going to keep the money you gave me to pay for your seat. I will consider it reimbursement for the monies you owe me. You can start paying me back for the UM tuition/room & board now. I work for an attorney and know my legal rights to get my money back. Perhaps you should take out a loan to pay me back.

I will continue to love you and pray for your soul that evil does not find you.

At this point I'm done with her.  She's not even attempting to understand at this point and she's interpreting me wanting to be ME as an attack on her.  I can't put up with this crap any longer.

Quote from: Anna Michele on April 19, 2013, 05:24:31 PM
At this point I'm done with her.  She's not even attempting to understand at this point and she's interpreting me wanting to be ME as an attack on her.  I can't put up with this crap any longer.

Good for you! 

My jaw has dropped by the selfishness and self-centeredness that's been on display here by your parents, this last post making my jaw fall the furthest.

If there's no proof of a loan, a cursory check of the Internet says you'll be okay.  In fact, she admitted it was a gift right there in the e-mail.  I suppose you could sue her for stealing and you may have a chance.

Still good luck in these trying times.

Quote from: Misato33 on April 19, 2013, 06:16:14 PM
Good for you! 

I was really hoping it wouldn't have to come to this, but putting up with their nonsense takes a lot of energy.  One of my friends even asked "Why is your mom 5 years old?" earlier.

Quote
My jaw has dropped by the selfishness and self-centeredness that's been on display here by your parents, this last post making my jaw fall the furthest.

I think they need to see a therapist more than I do at this point.

Quote
If there's no proof of a loan, a cursory check of the Internet says you'll be okay.  In fact, she admitted it was a gift right there in the e-mail.  I suppose you could sue her for stealing and you may have a chance.

There is no proof of a loan and two of my friends that I'm out to have parents that are lawyers.  Both the lawyers agree that I should be okay.  I don't think it's worth the legal fees to sue to get my $500 back.

Quote
Still good luck in these trying times.

Thanks, I'll need it.

I think the whole lawyer thing is just to scare you into complying with what they want. She is coming of incredibly selfish and self centered(different things right?) and immature, if anything she is the one being 'controlled' by evil with her behavior.

I hope things work out for you.

Quote from: EmeraldPerpugilliam on April 19, 2013, 07:48:30 PM
I think the whole lawyer thing is just to scare you into complying with what they want. She is coming of incredibly selfish and self centered(different things right?) and immature, if anything she is the one being 'controlled' by evil with her behavior.

That's what I'm thinking too.  It amazes me that some people can claim to be religious and then give a reaction like this one.  My understanding of religion is that it is supposed to be about teaching peace, love and acceptance (in other words, it's about teaching people to be hippies).

Quote
I hope things work out for you.

Thank you :)

You are incredibly strong. I am so proud to see your willingness to live honestly and maintain the faith that you have in yourself. Your parents are in a delusional cycle of self centered fear. Your mothers messages are filthy, she doesn't deserve to be given a response.

I would turn the tables slightly by suggesting that she gets help for herself. I would offer her a lot of love and compassion because her suffering is so evident, and I would empathize with how hard this obviously has been for her. Then I would tell her that despite my compassion for her, I was not willing to expose myself to her relentless, selfish assault. I'd wish her well and let her know the consequences of her actions. Don't worry about her crazy demands for money from you.

So sorry you're dealing with this. Lots of love...

x Di

Quote from: PrincessDi on April 19, 2013, 11:10:41 PM

I would turn the tables slightly by suggesting that she gets help for herself. I would offer her a lot of love and compassion because her suffering is so evident, and I would empathize with how hard this obviously has been for her. Then I would tell her that despite my compassion for her, I was not willing to expose myself to her relentless, selfish assault. I'd wish her well and let her know the consequences of her actions. Don't worry about her crazy demands for money from you.

I couldn't agree more with Di. I would try to be super nice and show them how happy you are. (Even if you're not right now.) Maybe even keep emailing them, telling them how happy you are and how transition is the best thing that has ever happened to you. That you're finally happy. And just ignore her negative comments when they come.  Kill their hatred with warmth, compassion and love. The money thing is a threat. Don't worry about it. They have nothing. It's emotional blackmail.

I agree with Di, also.

Quote from: PrincessDi on April 19, 2013, 11:10:41 PM
...Your mothers messages are filthy, she doesn't deserve to be given a response.

I would turn the tables slightly by suggesting that she gets help for herself. I would offer her a lot of love and compassion because her suffering is so evident, and I would empathize with how hard this obviously has been for her. Then I would tell her that despite my compassion for her, I was not willing to expose myself to her relentless, selfish assault. I'd wish her well and let her know the consequences of her actions.

Tell her you love her, and never stopped loving her, but you also love yourself and are finding peace in your body for the first time. And then suggest she get help to overcome her suffering, and let her know you are done with the affair as Di suggested.

The purpose of religion has always been that someones (or a group of peoples) personal single-minded view of the world can be handled as some greater truth and the "word/will of god".
In fact it's sort of a synonym for intolerance. Of course it doesn't sound as well when somebody states "hey, I'm intolerant" as when he says "i'm very religious".

Wars have typically been fought as of "god's will" (last time in Iraq), people have been tortured "in the name of god" ...

I hope I don't offend anybody here. Wanted to be a nice girl. (but I just had to say that)


I wish you the very best Anna. I believe that personally I would have given up on your parents a long time ago.
But it's good to see, how understanding other people here around are. Even to people like your parents.

Have to admire the way you're handling all this. I mean this is what life is all about. This is religion in its reality. From a certain perspective you cannot fault God and divine wisdom for giving such people of faith offspring who just happens to be trans.

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of people who quote from the Bible and miss out on the quote of quotes, the mother of all quotes, the one which captures the very essence of Christianity and what it's really all about.

I'm referring of course to John 14.

This is the stuff Jesus said about 'I am the way, the path and the truth..' Here he was being very clear in that being a Christian isn't just about being able to talk the talk, you also have to be able to walk the walk and do all the stuff that Jesus did in his life such as standing up for the prostitutes, supporting the homosexuals and helping the poor, the sick and the needy.

The prophet Mohammed was a bit more blunt on this subject.. 'Before you learn to love God you must first learn to love your fellow man.'

I can't say I've read all the Bible or even that much of the Koran, but I can't really recall reading anything in any of these scriptures about Jesus and his disciples persecuting gays or or harrassing trans folk.

Therefore I can't really understand why your mother has decided to go all Charles Manson on you just because you appear to have left the brotherhood of their cult of the self.

But on the more positive note your parents are supporting you in a way which is going to help you in your transition and that is by inspiring in you great fortitude and courage. This is all you can really do in such situations, and that is when such people aren't as forthcoming in their support or acceptance you have to exploit the situation and relationship and come up with whatever positives you can find yourself.

I know that it must be draining for you, upsetting at times, but you're doing all the right things. Besides there's none so blind as those who will not see.

Quote from: PrincessDi on April 19, 2013, 11:10:41 PM
You are incredibly strong. I am so proud to see your willingness to live honestly and maintain the faith that you have in yourself.

Thanks :).  One thing my dad pointed out is that I tend to be quiet and only speak up when I know I'm right.  I have no idea why they thought this situation would be any different.

Quote
I would turn the tables slightly by suggesting that she gets help for herself. I would offer her a lot of love and compassion because her suffering is so evident, and I would empathize with how hard this obviously has been for her. Then I would tell her that despite my compassion for her, I was not willing to expose myself to her relentless, selfish assault. I'd wish her well and let her know the consequences of her actions. Don't worry about her crazy demands for money from you.

I agree that she needs help, but does counseling or therapy work as well when you don't seek it out yourself?  I had a difficult time opening up to my therapist when I first started seeing her and I went voluntarily.

Quote from: StellaB on April 21, 2013, 02:36:58 PM
Have to admire the way you're handling all this. I mean this is what life is all about. This is religion in its reality. From a certain perspective you cannot fault God and divine wisdom for giving such people of faith offspring who just happens to be trans.

Right, at the very least they should be thinking that their god made be this way.  Why argue it and refer me to those "fix LGBT people by making them pray more" programs?

Quote
But on the more positive note your parents are supporting you in a way which is going to help you in your transition and that is by inspiring in you great fortitude and courage. This is all you can really do in such situations, and that is when such people aren't as forthcoming in their support or acceptance you have to exploit the situation and relationship and come up with whatever positives you can find yourself.

If I can handle my parents then I can handle anybody!

Quote
I know that it must be draining for you, upsetting at times, but you're doing all the right things. Besides there's none so blind as those who will not see.

Thanks :)  Reassurances like that one make it easier to keep going.

You are sweet AM and didn't deserve this.  Luckily,  as I have found and many before us,  friends can become family.  Hugs x

Quote from: Steph21 on April 22, 2013, 06:43:41 PM
You are sweet AM and didn't deserve this.  Luckily,  as I have found and many before us,  friends can become family.  Hugs x

Thanks Steph :).  I have no idea where I would be at with this if I didn't have everybody here and some of my other friends to support me.

Here is today's scare story (as if that could change who I am)

Subject: in 34 states it's legal to fire someone solely for being transgender.

Quote
Medical bills can also be a problem. Tim Chevalier, a 32-year-old transsexual man from California, has a high-paying job as a software engineer at Mozilla. But he's still struggling to make ends meet after racking up $50,000 in medical bills from his reconstructive surgery and related medical costs that insurance wouldn't cover.

The company I work for is EOE, so I don't think they can fire me for wanting to be me.  I can't help but wonder if I fall under California or Michigan law since I work remotely.

Looks like changing my locks paid off, I have successfully avoided an unplanned and unexpected visit from my dad!

Quote from: Anna! :D on April 27, 2013, 10:45:21 AM
Looks like changing my locks paid off, I have successfully avoided an unplanned and unexpected visit from my dad!

He just showed up without calling and tried to enter your home? Wow my parents ain't looking so bad now! Anna I'm sorry your having to go through this. I hope your parents come to realize how silly they being. Being trans is not the end of the world! Maybe one day they will see that for themselves.

Quote from: Heather on April 27, 2013, 01:44:13 PM
He just showed up without calling and tried to enter your home? Wow my parents ain't looking so bad now! Anna I'm sorry your having to go through this. I hope your parents come to realize how silly they being. Being trans is not the end of the world! Maybe one day they will see that for themselves.

He rang the doorbell and knocked a few times after that.  I'm guessing the unidentified sound after that could have been him trying the key to the old locks...

Now I have an email saying "Please call home, your dad has a question for you".  I really, really, really don't want to talk to them right now so I may respond with an email "What is the question?"  and hope they don't call to answer.

Quote from: Anna! :D on April 27, 2013, 08:05:44 PM
He rang the doorbell and knocked a few times after that.  I'm guessing the unidentified sound after that could have been him trying the key to the old locks...

Now I have an email saying "Please call home, your dad has a question for you".  I really, really, really don't want to talk to them right now so I may respond with an email "What is the question?"  and hope they don't call to answer.

You should email them back to find out what they want. But if I was you I know I wouldn't be really up to talking with them just yet. Unless they're willing to admit they were wrong and they want to apologize.

Quote from: Heather on April 27, 2013, 08:25:52 PM
You should email them back to find out what they want. But if I was you I know I wouldn't be really up to talking with them just yet. Unless they're willing to admit they were wrong and they want to apologize.

An apology is a standing pre-condition I have with my father.

It won't be an apology, or the note would have read "we are sorry,  can we talk?" 
I have a question for you is something they don't want to reveal just yet.  Why?

Quote from: Anna! :D on April 27, 2013, 08:05:44 PM
He rang the doorbell and knocked a few times after that.  I'm guessing the unidentified sound after that could have been him trying the key to the old locks...

Now I have an email saying "Please call home, your dad has a question for you".  I really, really, really don't want to talk to them right now so I may respond with an email "What is the question?"  and hope they don't call to answer.

My response would be something along the lines of 'in view of recent events I'm open to receiving an e-mail but not telephone conversations or meeting in person until we have come to a better mutual understanding. Therefore if you do have any questions please feel free to e-mail them.'

I don't feel so much that an apology is necessary at this stage. Let's face it, anybody can say sorry, it's just a five letter word at the end of the day.

However there does need to be some middle ground and some effort made by both your parents to achieve that middle ground. Anything less than that middle ground is going to make any apology they make meaningless.

This way you're showing them that you have the control of the dialogue. I understand that this might be hard for them to deal with, might even come as something of a shock but if they're up to it as parents they'll deal with it.

It also puts the ball in their court and gives them an opportunity for change.

I have this same condition with my family who don't accept me. I'm open to dialogue via e-mail and they can send an e-mail to me whenever they like. They've got the rest of their lives to send one, but if they don't I'll understand.

In the meantime you can get on with your life and I guess, they can get on with their's.

He was in the area to help my brother pack before leaving town.  I have no idea what my dad wanted, but maybe my brother knows.  I'll find out when I see him in a half hour.

I'm really amazed by you. Keep holding on sister, and remember we really are here for you as true support. Means a lot to me that you share this with us and I hope it helps you through this to do so. Hope today is going OK, wonder what your father wanted? x

Quote from: PrincessDi on April 28, 2013, 12:17:04 PM
I'm really amazed by you. Keep holding on sister, and remember we really are here for you as true support. Means a lot to me that you share this with us and I hope it helps you through this to do so. Hope today is going OK, wonder what your father wanted? x

Posting seems to help, so I'm going to keep sharing and asking for advice as things come up.  I hope this story has a happy ending!

I have no idea what my dad wanted.  My brother and I ended up chatting about his summer internship and plans, and I didn't feel like bringing up our parents.

Quote from: Anna! :D on April 28, 2013, 02:39:14 PM
  I hope this story has a happy ending!

Anna I still think there is a chance for a happy ending! It's hasn't been that long since you first told them they could still accept you! When I first came out to my parents back when I was younger. My parents were just as unaceppting as your parents. But they've come around somewhat you'll probably never have the whole were happy we have a daughter but neither will I. If they really love you they will want you in their life no matter what. As many arguments I have had with my mom she has told me that even though she doesn't agree with me transitioning she will always love me and she doesn't want me out of her life. I don't know if she will ever fully accept me for who I am but I do know she will not abandon me. Which is not the whole happy ending I envisioned but for now it seems as close as I'm going to get. Anna sometimes these things take a lot longer than we want. But never give up on a happy ending I know I'm still hoping for one.  :)

Have I mentioned that my mom is pretending to be me on some online dating site?  I got this text from her while I was out this evening:

Quote
I will assume you still like ladies. So there is a lovely petite lady who emailed you and went to <the same college I did>. I am going to give her your personal info to contact you

So now some stranger has my phone number.  Great.

Quote from: Anna! :D on April 29, 2013, 08:49:08 PM
Have I mentioned that my mom is pretending to be me on some online dating site?

I think, yes, I think that one broke my mind.  Then if you get a call, on the angle of someone else being drug into your parent's mess, that's just so unfair to the caller and of course you too.  Try Googling yourself to see if you can find where she's got it?

Quote from: Misato on April 29, 2013, 09:09:37 PM
I think, yes, I think that one broke my mind.  Then if you get a call, on the angle of someone else being drug into your parent's mess, that's just so unfair to the caller and of course you too.  Try Googling yourself to see if you can find where she's got it?

I know where she has it.  She forwarded me the girl's profile.  I went to their customer support site page and asked them to kindly remove it.

Well at least thats down.  Hopefully the girl will see it's down and think something is up.

Situation still remains unbelievable.  Though you do seem to be handling it with a lot of grace.  Hugs and heartfelt applause for that!

Quote from: Misato on April 29, 2013, 09:19:35 PM
Well at least thats down.  Hopefully the girl will see it's down and think something is up.

Situation still remains unbelievable.  Though you do seem to be handling it with a lot of grace.  Hugs and heartfelt applause for that!

Thanks!  I had to have my facebook friends stop me from replying with "NOT COOL.  And you wonder why I'm not going on vacation this year"

This is really getting to be nuts, and well beyond any sane boundaries. And this is getting out of just being about you and them; setting up a stranger for disappointment/heartache in order to "fix" you is damn low. You might need a little vacation from your parents until they stop the hyperventilating..... if not in reality, then radio silence for a little while. Email them so they know why you are doing it, but be firm, and say something to the effect of:

"I understand you are confused, worried for me, scared for my future, but be aware that I've had all my life to come to terms with this, just as I am aware you have only had a few weeks to do so. I understand, I really do. But you are going over the line, and you--YOU, not me--are risking damaging our relationship irreparably. I don't want this, so I'm going to take a little time for myself, and I won't be available to chat or mail for a few weeks. During this time, I won't be reconsidering anything (remember, I've had decades to consider and reconsider), but I hope you will be considering how we can agree to disagree and yet still move forward with you treating me as your child, which I always have been, and always will remain."

Something like that? A line in the sand, dude. a line in the sand....

Mother,  I contacted a shrink posing as you.  I gave them ur personal details and said you wanted to talk to them about your lack of ability to respect other people's right to privacy and boundaries.  I am assuming you don't mind.

Ok not a real suggestion...

Steph x

Quote from: Steph21 on April 30, 2013, 04:45:55 AM
Mother,  I contacted a shrink posing as you.  I gave them ur personal details and said you wanted to talk to them about your lack of ability to respect other people's right to privacy and boundaries.  I am assuming you don't mind.

Ok not a real suggestion...

Steph x

Maybe not real but a good one all the same!  Knee slapper good!

Updates from the last couple of days :(.  My mom asked me if I was going on vacation since it would be "goodbye" if I transition.  Once again I said no and then linked her to a local PFLAG chapter so that maybe she can talk to other parents.  I got this reply:

Quote
OK, your choice. But it will probably be goodbye. If you ever want to be <male name> again, we are here.

Obviously we probably won't see you at your birthday or holidays so I hope you find another family who will love you.

Maybe we will meet again in another life. I'm not interested in support groups. I have also told your aunt and she is just as confused as we are.

Love you lots, <male name>.

MOM

So she's not even going to try.  And I don't like that she's told other members of the family, but there is nothing I can do about that now.  :(

She sounds really desperate to me. These are scare tactics - I don't think she has processed whats really happening yet and she can not imagine you would give up your family for this. Of course, the funny thing (that isn't so funny) is that she is choosing to endher relationship with you - SHE is. Yet she is puts you in a position of responsibility for this. Your Mother probably thinks that the best way to make you come around is to completely shut you out as Anna, because she and your father don't want to give you an inkling of the idea that they might one day tolerate her. They probably imagine that soon enough you will realize that you need them and that you are making a mistake. Unfortunately for them, they are horrifically mistaken. What is actually more likely to happen here is that you will grow distant from them in a critical part of your life, having been betrayed by them as family and friends, and that trauma will be a huge obstacle between you and them in reconnecting. This is their fault, their choice, and their responsibility. I am so sorry you have been treated this way. If I were you (and if you have a good relationship with her) I would contact your Aunt. She knows now and I am sure she is even MORE confused than your parents because they are the ones who told her their insane version of this story. I wouldn't say a lot, I would just explain that I was contacting her because I know she was informed and that I wanted her to know how healthy and happy I was, and what a wonderful decision I was making for myself etc. You can direct her to support services where if she is more willing to go, she might be educated on principles and see that we are very REAL. Then she might be motivated to share that with your mutual family. But even if she doesn't, it might be nice to send her a note just because she does now know. Its important for you to not appear to distant family as though you shut anyone out, remain open and show them that. However! That is not true for your parents who are assaulting you with hate and fear ridden threats. I would write back to mom and just tell her that I hope she finds the willingness to get herself some help, that I will always be here if she decides to do so, and that I love her very much and hope she is happy and healthy. I would tell her how sad it has made me that she would do this, but that you understand that this is hard and can only imagine what it must be like to her. If she could really be willing to end your relationship forever, then this must really hurt and you have compassion for that. Change isn't easy but needing you to stay the person they want you to be in order to receive their love is a very selfish kind of "love" and perhaps you will find a family that understands how complex life can be, one that is willing to support one another through uncomfortable changes - especially during those times. Reiterate your love for her and your acceptance of her decision, be honest about your feelings but remind her that you have your own and far too much self love to negotiate with someone who is inflicting so much shameless pain.

I would take some control here by asserting boundaries and telling her all of this before telling her you won't be reading emails or taking calls that are this sick. You have offered them help and they refuse it, so until they are willing to listen - you won't be able to communicate. I would also tell her this in person or on the phone - if you think you can do this safely!! If, of course, you are too emotional to communicate this effectively or you think she is less likely to listen that way, of course just e-mail them. I just think its easy to write drama in an email, its harder to see your child/mother and really maintain such a severe perspective with them. You both need time. You need this chaos to settle. Nothing is being handled gracefully on their end and its just a mess that you need to stop engaging with.

I would find a supportive set of parents. If you have any friends who are trans and whose family embraced them...reach out to them. Or if you go to the center in your area and speak with some of the parents at one of the support groups...If you could find some who would be willing to share their experience with your parents, they might be able to help. If they could write a letter and send that to your family, for example...it seems like your parents are into reading up letters and going crazy with them - so maybe offer them this outsider perspective...preferably someone who did not accept their kid at first. This is just an idea, but I think it might be helpful. I know it might not work at all, but its a healthy kind of attempt at offering help.

Never forget that you need boundaries in your life. This is too much for any person to handle...you are going through so many changes right now and to have your family disown you...is just horrific. I am so sorry you ar dealing with this and I hope you are not too upset. Keep relying on your support system. Sorry if you do not want all my suggestions, I just wanted to offer my opinion. Good luck and keep us updated, you don't have to do this alone EVER!

Diana

Thanks Diana!  I'm probably going to do at least some of what you've suggested.  If I reply it won't be until tonight that way I have time to settle down a bit first.  It'll also give me time to work on what to say.

Quote from: Anna! :D on May 02, 2013, 06:55:30 AM
Updates from the last couple of days :(.  My mom asked me if I was going on vacation since it would be "goodbye" if I transition.  Once again I said no and then linked her to a local PFLAG chapter so that maybe she can talk to other parents.  I got this reply:

So she's not even going to try.  And I don't like that she's told other members of the family, but there is nothing I can do about that now.  :(

I'm so sorry Anna your mother is totally failing at being a parent right now. You don't deserve any of this treatment you are receiving. Don't let her get you down you she obviously got more problems than you just being trans. Even though she says goodbye something tells me she's not going to just let this go and will try to contact again. It's like she is trying bully you into being the person she wants you to be. Instead of loving you for the person you are! I know it's easy to see this as a negative but turn this around in your favor by becoming the best woman you can be. And rub it in her face with how well your living. Sometimes negatives can be positives if you channel your emotions and turn them around to your advantage. My mom at one point said I would be an ugly woman and that I wasn't brave enough to transition. Even though she has since apologized I still use those word as fuel to get past every fear I have when it comes to my transition. You should take something your mom or dad has said to you and turn it around on them by proving them wrong.

Regarding the family that loves you thing your mom said, Anna you are such a winner I've no doubt what chosen family you find will be worlds better than that of your mom and dad.  I bet, and hope, that you get the love, respect and support in your life that given your parents behavior, you are long overdue for.

This is insane! I'm so sorry you have to go through this *hug*. I wish I had sage advice to share with you.... *hug*

Oh dear oh dear.. I'm just so sorry you're going through this but can't say that I'm altogether surprised. Seems that from the very start if there was a mistake to be made your parents would go out of their way to make it.

There's not really that much you can do here I'm afraid. The world is divided generally into people who accept the world and others for who they are and those who have solid convictions over how others and the world 'should' be.

I can think of a lot of adjectives to describe your parents and their actions but I won't. It's not going to make any of this any easier for you, it's not going to lead to a change, and I feel what you need right now are things which help you stay positive and strong.

Families only matter in life when they stick together and support each other and when they don't.. well that's why we have friends. But you can of course create your own family, there's nothing to stop you doing that, and these are the people who will be there for you no matter what.

The thing is with your parents it isn't really goodbye at all and not the end of the relationship. This period you have just gone through with your parents will remain and it will keep on coming back to them, time after time, after time, after time. Every holiday, every vacation, every birthday, and each and every time something happens or something is said which triggers a memory.

This is karma, the consequences of decisions, of choices, of actions.

This is why there's no need for adjectives, but for things which keep you positive and strong. This relationship doesn't end for you either, and even if you don't have to deal with your parents in contact there's still the relationship and the karma to deal with.

This has something to do with being right. Being right isn't really about thinking or doing something which is going to meet widespread acceptance and approval, but about making choices and decisions that you are fully prepared to live with.

I would be inclined to acknowledge and accept your mother's honesty and courage of conviction. This isn't because I agree with her. I don't, I just see a lot of unnecessary hassle and drama, I just see a complete lack of responsibility, a lack of compassion and humanity, and a lack of effort.

There's no magic when it comes to human relationships. You can find all the understanding, acceptance, agreement and harmony if you're prepared to make the effort and so too is the other side. As you can see, when one side is no longer prepared to make the effort, that's when it falls apart.

But I also believe in being responsible and in holding other people responsible for their choices and decisions. Karma gives you a choice. You can choose here to lash out and hit back when things don't go your way, or to threaten, to manipulate, and to coerce, or you can just accept and move on.

These aren't the things which hurt. What hurts when relationships fall apart are the unfulfilled expectations. If you keep hold of these then I feel you will be continuing the relationship with some degree of bitterness, as your parents have now chosen to do.

My suggestion is to accept everything as is. You've done everything you could, you've actually done yourself proud, but there's nothing more you can do but to accept that your parents are being responsible in their own way, doing what they feel is right, and that they are the ones who will have to live with the consequences of these choices and decisions.

Whatever you do stay strong and hang in there, be positive, but most of all be yourself.

But wait, there's more!

Quote
One more thing ... I hope you understand when we do not invite you to <Brother>'s graduation next year or if anything happens to the grandmas (as far as funerals go).  Any money you may have inherit from us will also go to <Brother>.

Your dad is very hurt with your decisions.  I can walk away from you but he is having a hard time letting you go.

My God... This is so sad... *hugs*
Please take heart, Anna. Your parents are giving up on you without trying to understand, but that is their fault, not yours. They need to grow, emotionally, in ways they don't seem capable of doing right now. I truly hope they do, and that reconciliation eventually follows, but for now all I can offer is my tightest virtual hug, and that's hardly adequate. :(

Okay. Some people are just TOXIC. They say you can't choose your children, but you also can't choose your parents. Whereas some of us were lucky enough to get supportive, loving parents, I hate to say it, but you drew a mighty short straw there. I'm so sorry. Go out, and build your own family as you see fit; there are so many out there who will love you, or do already. Find them, nurture them, be family.

I'm really sorry Anna. Your mother is apparently a very cold woman if she can just cut one of her children off so easily. She has no right to call herself a mother after all the things she's done too you! If I was you from now on anytime she emails you I would automatically delete them without hesitation. And she will email you again despite her threats to completely cut you off! Apparently she gets off on bullying you and trying to force what she wants on you. And you don't have to take such crap from her! Go and live the life you want to live Anna and ignore your bully of a mother.

Sending more prayers and virtual hugs.

I don't think there's anything more to add. Your mother's words, choices and actions speak for themselves.

I haven't written much on your posts and updates, but have been following them pretty closely. I have seen a lot of things, and known all kinds of people. Your last post left me speechless. I don't get how your mom can be that way. It's just...mean...and not decent from a basic human being level.  It sounds like your dad has some feelings, but who knows how much control or manipulation your mom has over him.

I am sorry. Fwiw, this is wrong, and it is her problem...definitely not you. You are just you, and seem like a decent person. Nobody has a right to treat you that way.

Quote from: ZoeM on May 02, 2013, 01:14:54 PM
but for now all I can offer is my tightest virtual hug, and that's hardly adequate. :(

I'll take it anyway!  Thanks!

I have two more email in my "Family" gmail label and a voice mail from "Home" on my phone.  I'm ignoring everything until at least tomorrow that way dwelling on anything bad doesn't keep me awake tonight.  I'm really hoping at least one is a reply from my brother agreeing that I shouldn't be brought up around my parents next week when he's alone with them.

I've been telling myself that if I can survive my parents then I can get through anything transition related.  I'll definitely use this as fuel for forward progress :).

Not much I can say but I also can send a big virtual hug your way in hopes it helps at least a little.

From my mom:

Quote
In thinking about it for me it's because I worked with gay people for 10 years at Hudson's and while I was at Parks Title, I was in an area where there was a gay guy who worked in the mortgage area.

I also went to New York when you were about 2 and we happened to go to a bar that was gay night. My first impression when I went to that bar was "this is how I imagine Hell looks like." Ask anyone who was there that night and they will tell you the same.

In all my years of exposure, the people I met seemed more messed up than I could ever wish upon a person. They were always pushing their personal agenda and expressing their "rights". They were never concerned about how others felt. I never met any one who was not messed up in that world. Some I have met have been extremely flamboyant, rude and crude. They never struck me as kind souls.

I also believe in God and Jesus and angels and that Hell exists. I truly believe there is good and evil on this Earth and evil is always trying to round up others to be in their court no matter what. I also know that when people suffer, they look toward their beliefs and God to help them get through tough times.

I personally wonder if you are going through this in order to find God. I believe that God has a plan for you but it may be a bumpy road in order to get to the finish line. I also know that if ask Jesus for help, he will help you no matter what.

So, I can let you go because I have asked God and Jesus to be in charge of "driving the bus" for you because I am unable to know what the grand plan is for you. So, I let go and let God.

You know I do and always will love you but I don't think I can help you with anything now. You have to find out for yourself and I hope you discover that Jesus is always there for you no matter what. ..... but so is Satan, so beware of our choices.

I am very sad and miss you but I know I can get through this if this is what it takes for your soul.

Love you lots.

MOM

From my Dad:

Quote
I am trying to decide what I find most disappointing about your right now. Whether it is the "bombshell' announcement you laid on us, or the way you do not respond to e-mails, texts, and phone calls – when we are trying to show our concern over your "decision" I would have thought by now that I would have earned a little more respect from you given the things we provided for you your whole life. I'm also put off by your selfishness in not thinking about how this will affect your brother, your grandmothers and the rest of you family.

The timing of your decision alone indicates that your thought process is not very long-reaching, and that you are not thinking of long term consequences. If you had waited until the end of June, you would have not screwed yourself out of what looks to be a pretty good vacation (along with the airfare), and most likely any kind of Birthday celebration from your family for your 25th.

When I talked to you in March, just too many things did not add-up, in either your explanations or your timeline for me to believe this has been something you have been dealing with for 12 years. Instead I believe this is something that has manifested itself since your breakup with <ex-GF>. Face it – until then you seemed very content with yourself and who you were, I even think you may have been considering possible marriage after she graduated. Your comments that "people though you looked alike" may have been misconstrued in your mind. If you actually look at pictures of the two of you together – you do NOT look alike, however you did look good together. I now wonder if you are now trying to literally BE HER!. Right now hope you are just having a hard time separating a fantasy, or "what if" from reality. Of course, when you choose to shut us out, we cannot ever talk about that.

I am also concerned about who your current "friends" are – and who are the people encouraging you to think life will be suddenly all rosy if you actually change your sex. You attitude toward your mother and me came through very clear last month when we stopped to talk to you. You could not wait to get rid us because your meeting your friends was so much more important to you than your parents trying to show their concern and hurt over this situation. You stood there showing no emotion at all, other than a smirk on your face, checking your watch as your mother cried in front of you. I hope you know that after that, no matter how this turns out in the end, that your relationship with your mother will be forever damaged – congratulations!

But since your friends opinions seem so much more than ours, I'm going to drop a few more thoughts of my own (which I'm sure we'll never get to really discuss). Just who are these friends who seem to be encouraging you to throw your life away. Is it the "new group" you have been hanging out with since the fall. You said it was a "twenty something's group". Is it in reality a LBGT associated group? Do you think you are somehow being brainwashed into this conclusion? I have to ask. We know for sure it had a least one set of Lesbians – and you have always been easily impressionable. I want you to think about who your friends were when you were 5, and at 10, and at 15 – how many of them are you still in contact with. How many of your friends and former roommates do you still see on a regular basis (Is this where you got the idea planted in your head?). The point is; your life and associations will change several times over a lifetime. Will those who are encouraging you, and telling you "good for you", great decision etc. – will they be there to pick up the pieces in 5, 7 10 years if this goes very badly? Remember your friends may tell you anything to make you feel good for the moment - whether they really feel that way or not. But; are they going to put you up and feed you if you lose your job, your source of income, maybe your home if you make yourself professionally unemployable by your lifestyle election? Just look at <gay friend>, college degree, but best he can do is McDonalds because he is openly GAY. Will you come to regret some day if you never can have a family of your own?

I know you seemed very disappointed in us, that we did not accept the news with a "gee, golly <Male name>, that's terrific, and wonderful and your life will so much more enriched". BULL->-bleeped-<-! A parent will tell you if you are about to ->-bleeped-<- UP YOUR LIFE BIG TIME!. You've known your friends for a few years, we have known you for 25!. In that time can your actually tell us that you did not think we have always had your best interest in mind? Whether it was in supporting you in the activities you wanted to do as a youth, in convincing you that Butcher was a better path to your education (and driving you to the bus every morning), in helping you get through college and even as late as last April in NOT letting you invest in a condo that was a piece of crap. We have always looked out for you and tried to see the big picture, and yes we will tell you if you are about to ->-bleeped-<- UP! Whether it is convenient for you to hear it or not! We also can tell you that up until very recently you have NEVER shown any tendencies to make us even suspect that you were leading toward being a female. I'm sure your mother would have picked up on that one for sure. No, this is something that has been recently learned! - and are trying to convince yourself of. You had a very normal childhood, and ALL of your mannerisms then and now are very male oriented - just look at your cleaning habits!.

You need to really consider the consequences of your actions before you do anything really stupid – not just look at the rosy picture someone, or your internet sites have been portraying for you. Did you know that fully 60% of people who get tattoos before the age of 25 regret it? That's tattoos! – something that is fairly easily reversed. Cutting off your genitalia is NOT going to be fixable later. Your mother has tried to get you to look at the consequences of this decision from her various e-mails and links (yes, this whole thing is a decision on your part), with all the data on regret rates, suicide rates, potential (and probably) loss job, income, friends, family etc. You can refute it with the things you choose to read to support it – but do you really want to risk all this – and for what. Look at the real longterm!

You have not, or will not discuss with us how your proposed change will actually enhance your life. Will this enhance your ability for professional development and promotion. Willy ou be able to make more or less money? Will your friends who have, or will have children thrive by having you around? Will your neighbors embrace you because you are transsexual?. Can you explain to me how electing to suddenly become an obscure minority who are now trying to get rights legislated (because it is so out of the "norm") is going to make your life better?. If you have to have the government make you "acceptable again" maybe you should not have made yourself un-acceptable in the first place. So, please, explain to me how this will be better.

We will probably keep trying to connect with you BEFORE you make any dramatic change – though tensions will probably still be high on both sides. If you do decide to physically mutilate yourself, then you can plan that we will walk away. You'll be on your own to live with your doing, good or bad.

I have offered you my council before, and I will offer it again. If you still want to go on vacation, you can – just catch your mother before she cancels your flight. We don't have to dwell on this subject for a week, but it may give us a chance to talk privately sometime during the week.

If you still want to be part of a family, you just need to know where to draw the line between a private fetish, and really screwing yourself up.

Your Father (at least for now!)

((O_o))

That's so close to my own imagined worst-possible-outcome it's anxiety-inducing.

You poor girl... ._.

Quote from: ZoeM on May 03, 2013, 07:29:42 AM
((O_o))

That's so close to my own imagined worst-possible-outcome it's anxiety-inducing.

You poor girl... ._.

So the lesson to the rest of you:  make sure your brain WON'T shut down when trying to talk with your parents.

No offence to you(plenty to parents) but they seem so out of touch with the world at the moment. Yes it isn't all roses and rainbows this choice but then no decision is fully positive there are always chances things can go wrong it is a fact of life. In reference to the gay friend who can only work at McDonalds I highly doubt his struggle with work has anything to do with his sexuality not sure what it could be though unemployment rates due to companies cutting back to save money might have something to do with it. Definitely that more than his sexuality.

Also if anything they are siding with evil. Saying you are being selfish is really the pot calling the kettle black. If you were being selfish you would never have said anything you would never even have considered telling them, you showed signs of caring about what they felt, the opposite to what they are doing.

I am sorry but I would be ashamed to call them my parents with their behavior. They are welcome to not be supportive but there is not being supportive and there is downright being insulting/cruel/bullying and the list goes on.

I am sorry you have to go through this, it is indeed a worse case scenario, I hope for your sake they grow up. I feel bad for feeling this way but I am feeling like slapping them but I do not wish to lower myself.

*cooling off*

Again sorry I have no intention of upsetting you and adding to your problems, once again a humongous virtual hug to you.

Quote from: EmeraldPerpugilliam on May 03, 2013, 08:23:23 AM
No offence to you(plenty to parents) but they seem so out of touch with the world at the moment. Yes it is all roses and rainbows this choice but then no decision is fully positive there are always chances things can go wrong it is a fact of life. In reference to the gay friend who can only work at McDonalds I highly doubt his struggle with work has anything to do with his sexuality not sure what it could be though unemployment rates due to companies cutting back to save money might have something to do with it. Defnitely that more than his sexuality.

The friend was an environmental science major in college and there aren't many job openings for his field.  And he's not even open about being gay!

Another openly-gay friend has a really good job working for Amazon.com...

I wish I had time to write more.  I hope the rest of your family is less hateful and excumminicate your parents from the families, while embracing you.  Your parents deserve a heaping helping of fairness from the universe.

Also want to note you're active on this site, and even from here alone, so I know you know about all the ups and downs of transition.  With that grounding, I've no doubt you will continue to be successful and will become an amazing woman!

Sorry looking back I didn't word it very well, might edit so some of what I was trying to say makes more sense.

That is a good case of degrees not being everything(though help) and shows even more that your parents are out of touch. Seems what they do not realise is if anything they are the obscure minority now, We fight for our rights because we should have had them all along. Just like slaves fought for their freedom. I am not saying what we are going through is more difficult then what they went through at the time but there are similarities.

Your parents are giving me drive to prove them wrong so I can imagine they are just spurring you on aswell. I am all for family members not being okay with what we are doing but there are better ways to handle it with out being monsters about it.

I am trying to decide what I find most disappointing about you right now. Whether it is the "bombshell' announcement you laid on us, or the way you do not respond to e-mails, texts, and phone calls – when we are trying to show our concern over your "decision" I would have thought by now that I would have earned a little more respect from you given the things we provided for you your whole life. I'm also put off by your selfishness in not thinking about how this will affect your brother, your grandmothers and the rest of you family.

The timing of your decision alone indicates that your thought process is not very long-reaching, and that you are not thinking of long term consequences. If you had waited until the end of June, you would have not screwed yourself out of what looks to be a pretty good vacation (along with the airfare), and most likely any kind of Birthday celebration from your family for your 25th.  The fact that you think a vacation or a birthday appearing to be fun/happy/normal is more important than me being honest with myself about something that is suffocating me indicates that your thought process is entirely self-motivated.

When I talked to you in March, just too many things did not add-up, in either your explanations or your timeline for me to believe this has been something you have been dealing with for 12 years. Instead I believe this is something that has manifested itself since your breakup with <ex-GF>. Face it – until then you seemed very content with yourself and who you were, I even think you may have been considering possible marriage after she graduated. Your comments that "people though you looked alike" may have been misconstrued in your mind. If you actually look at pictures of the two of you together – you do NOT look alike, however you did look good together. I now wonder if you are now trying to literally BE HER!. Right now hope you are just having a hard time separating a fantasy, or "what if" from reality. Of course, when you choose to shut us out, we cannot ever talk about that.  I appreciate your concern here, but I'm not lying to you. I am not confused about my gender, I am very certain of it. I understand that this seems crazy or out of the blue to you - but I have come to this understanding of my self after a calm and thorough analysis of the truth. I know what I am, and believe me - it is hard to accept. I have finally accepted it and I will try to be patient with you because I love you and I know how hard this is for you.

I am also concerned about who your current "friends" are – and who are the people encouraging you to think life will be suddenly all rosy if you actually change your sex. My friends know all too well how hard and heartbreaking this life can be. They also know that one of the reasons it can be so is a family that abandons you because you won't stay the way they want you to be. They also know that this life is far WORSE if I do not transition. If I stay a man for you or anyone else I will hate my self and my life and even though I will still love you, I can not imagine our relationship flourishing when I have betrayed myself so deeply.You attitude toward your mother and me came through very clear last month when we stopped to talk to you. You could not wait to get rid us because your meeting your friends was so much more important to you than your parents trying to show their concern and hurt over this situation. You stood there showing no emotion at all, other than a smirk on your face, checking your watch as your mother cried in front of you. I hope you know that after that, no matter how this turns out in the end, that your relationship with your mother will be forever damaged – congratulations!  You and Mom have both told me that I am crazy and a freak for doing this, which means for being myself. I can't change this, and I won't try to anymore. I know you are trying to love me right now, but I urge you to try and see how self-centered your fear is.

But since your friends opinions seem so much more than ours, I'm going to drop a few more thoughts of my own (which I'm sure we'll never get to really discuss). Just who are these friends who seem to be encouraging you to throw your life away. Is it the "new group" you have been hanging out with since the fall. You said it was a "twenty something's group". Is it in reality a LBGT associated group? Do you think you are somehow being brainwashed into this conclusion? Apparently you have been brainwashed by conservative fear mongers who hate LGBT people! Seriously, what you just wrote comes across as borderline mentally ill. You really believe LGBT people are a coercive group? Can you imagine why an LGBT group might need to exist in this world? With parents like you who have these beliefs...can you imagine why it might be necessary to find other people who are like yourself for support?I have to ask. We know for sure it had a least one set of Lesbians – and you have always been easily impressionable.     Lesbians aren't telling me to have a sex change operation, sorry this ones really funny!I want you to think about who your friends were when you were 5, and at 10, and at 15 – how many of them are you still in contact with. How many of your friends and former roommates do you still see on a regular basis (Is this where you got the idea planted in your head?).  Gee thanks for not trusting in me after 25 years of presumably thoroughly knowing every inch of me. Where did you get these ideas planted in your head??The point is; your life and associations will change several times over a lifetime. Will those who are encouraging you, and telling you "good for you", great decision etc. – will they be there to pick up the pieces in 5, 7 10 years if this goes very badly?  I don't make personal life decisions based on other people. I would never rely on someone outside of myself to answer these questions for me, or to support me when I fall. I do trust my friends and know that they will be there for me now. None of us know the future. Stop trying to control everything, because honestly neither of us can. I can make this decision today but of course I don't know what will happen. The fact I would make it regardless of that means that it matters to me in a profound way. How can you live your life needing to control outcomes? Let go, Dad. I love you and I don't want to see you hurt like this. Remember your friends may tell you anything to make you feel good for the moment - whether they really feel that way or not. They provide me with honest perspective, not bolstering fluff support. They're not egging me on, they are helping provide their input on a challenging situation in my life. This is called friendship, Dad. This may be surprising to you, but friends are actually good for people.But; are they going to put you up and feed you if you lose your job, your source of income, maybe your home if you make yourself professionally unemployable by your lifestyle election? This is who I am, it is not a choice I am making. The choice is to embrace myself, rather than ignore it and live a lie. I won't be unemployable, the country is actually 50-100 years ahead of you.Just look at <gay friend>, college degree, but best he can do is McDonalds because he is openly GAY. Will you come to regret some day if you never can have a family of your own?  I can have a family. It might not be your idea of what a family ought to be. Perhaps you can see how your idyllic lifestyle preferences are suffocating and hateful to people who can not conform within them without giving up an unaffordable part of their heart?

I know you seemed very disappointed in us, that we did not accept the news with a "gee, golly <Male name>, that's terrific, and wonderful and your life will so much more enriched". BULL->-bleeped-<-! A parent will tell you if you are about to UP YOUR LIFE BIG TIME!. No, I do not want you to embrace me joyfully with no regard for concern. I anticipated your response being challenging. I am disappointed in you for being so selfish in this process, for insisting that I am inherently wrong/misguided/a freak etc. as you bully me and threaten me. Neither of you has sought support. Because you do not want any sort of comprehensive support from anyone who might suggest to you that there is another way to see this. You say you don't want to be "brainwashed" by the LGBT, but it seems to me that you want to remain brainwashed as people against transgender reality. I'm not asking you to completely agree and conform to my perspectives. I am asking for an earnest attempt to see this outside of your personal beliefs and desires. So long as you are unwilling to do that, it is you that has made the decision here that ends our relationship - not me. You've known your friends for a few years, we have known you for 25!. In that time can your actually tell us that you did not think we have always had your best interest in mind? Whether it was in supporting you in the activities you wanted to do as a youth, in convincing you that Butcher was a better path to your education (and driving you to the bus every morning), in helping you get through college and even as late as last April in NOT letting you invest in a condo that was a piece of crap. We have always looked out for you and tried to see the big picture, and yes we will tell you if you are about to UP! Whether it is convenient for you to hear it or not!   Absolutely, Dad. I know you love me with all your heart! I am sorry if I made you feel that I believe you don't. I know that you are both acting this way out of love. My point is that your love is being hijacked by fear. I'm not asking you to stop asking the fearful questions you have - I know they need to be answered, you need to understand that answer. I'm waiting for you to see that the world is not as conveniently tailored to the narrative you believe in as we'd like it to be. I'm waiting for you to find some humility and step down off your position of knowing to try and challenge yourself enough that you might not throw me away. Because f you choose your fear over me then you are giving up on real love. Love changes and grows, it works with people and compromises at times - but it is always interested in preserving the self and that it is bound to. We can't always keep that love perfect, I can't protect you in my transition. It breaks my heart that this hurts you or embarrasses you. But that is your choice.We also can tell you that up until very recently you have NEVER shown any tendencies to make us even suspect that you were leading toward being a female. I'm sure your mother would have picked up on that one for sure. No, this is something that has been recently learned! - and are trying to convince yourself of. You had a very normal childhood, and ALL of your mannerisms then and now are very male oriented - just look at your cleaning habits!.  Crash course in gender 101: cleaning habits/mannerisms are culturally constructed gender expressions and roles. Femininity and Masculinity are expressions of gender but they can be expressed by men or by women. Gender Identity is the core association one has to their sex and gender. That does not always correlate to the sex they were assigned at birth. There are feminine trans men and masculine trans women. A trans woman, btw, is someone like myself. This is about way more than if I am dirty or "male" acting.

You need to really consider the consequences of your actions before you do anything really stupid – not just look at the rosy picture someone, or your internet sites have been portraying for you. This sentence makes me realize we're in separate universes at the moment. I think about the consequences every day. I am living one of the consequences right now in this conversation. I know how hard it is. But guess what - it isn't hard because I choose to be myself, it is hard because people like you choose to make it hard for me. Thats your fault, not mine. You need to really consider the consequences before you do anything really stupid, Dad. You are throwing me away.Did you know that fully 60% of people who get tattoos before the age of 25 regret it? That's tattoos! – something that is fairly easily reversed. Cutting off your genitalia is NOT going to be fixable later. Your mother has tried to get you to look at the consequences of this decision from her various e-mails and links (yes, this whole thing is a decision on your part), with all the data on regret rates, suicide rates, potential (and probably) loss job, income, friends, family etc. You can refute it with the things you choose to read to support it – but do you really want to risk all this – and for what. Look at the real longterm! Its interesting how you suggest that I will refute this with information I choose to read and to support my beliefs. Thats actually what you're doing with junk science like transgender regret rates. Are you aware of what happens when you google 'transgender regret' or anything else - you find what you're looking for. The internet is vast and full of whatever you want to hear. Look toward reputable sources for your information, and you will find that the leading organizations for health and betterment of gender variant people's lives will tell you that there is a very low instance of regret in the transgender community. These are not drug-addicted coercive LGBT cults...why? Because those don't exist, Dad. They're just in your head.

You have not, or will not discuss with us how your proposed change will actually enhance your life. It will allow me to be living life as a real person for once. It will give me a body that makes sense to me, that I want and identify with. It will empower me to love myself on a daily basis and let me know who I am. I will know happiness in and of myself never before known, and I won't have to search for answers any more for what this world means to me. You do not suffer with gender dysphoria and are not aware of how it feels to be in the wrong body. If I do not live full time as a woman and embrace this part of me, then I will be dead already.Will this enhance your ability for professional development and promotion. You would give up who you are to get a job? I know that we make difficult decisions to take care of ourselves and our families, I am sure you have in supporting me. But I am fortunate enough to have figured this out at 25 where transition is easier and plausible. So many trans women remain men for years as they benefit from a career as a male - they often kill themselves or wind up at 40 years old with a wife and children - and guess what else? The need to become a woman! Guess how much horrible pain is sewn in that transition? You want me to ignore this now and build a life you believe in? That would be irresponsible and cruel. If I did that I would be ->-bleeped-<-ing over everyone connected to me who I built a lie around. This won't go away. I could suffocate it for years if I had to, but I don't and I refuse to live the way you imagine is best.Will you be able to make more or less money? Will your friends who have, or will have children thrive by having you around? It breaks my heart that you see transgender people as unsuitable caretakers of children. Transgender people were kids once, too. And having someone who is trans be present for a child to witness and be cared for by is a wonderful beautiful thing. Transgender people are real and kids should know that - if they don't they will be brainwashed by your fantasies of perversion and selfishness that don't reflect the transgender population at all, just your own bigotry. Trans people are excellent role models for fortitude and endurance and faith...they can educate kids on how to survive hate and live a full and beautiful life as whoever you are. This might diminish teenage suicide, and encourage kids both transgender and non-transgender to live outside of fear, to be themselves, and to listen to their heart.Will your neighbors embrace you because you are transsexual?. What will they neighbors think? Dad! haha sorry this one...come one Dad...haha Can you explain to me how electing to suddenly become an obscure minority who are now trying to get rights legislated (because it is so out of the "norm") is going to make your life better?.  I don't measure betterment by my relation to other people's standards. Do you? Would you seriously give up the most important part of who you are so that some legal system could validate you? My life will be better because I won't be living in denial. If you have to have the government make you "acceptable again" maybe you should not have made yourself un-acceptable in the first place. So, please, explain to me how this will be better. Wow! This is so interesting. You really believe that I have made myself unacceptable? I am made unacceptable by a violent government that refuses to accept difference. I donot have a choice in who I am, but I do have a choice in how I respond to who I am. If I do not choose to transition, I do not fully embody myself in this life - or even approach to embody myself. You really think the law is perfect? That we should all just live according to it, that to live outside of it or to change it is to be inherently wrong? Yeah, don't try to make the law accomodate you - just be accommodating to the law...thats such a sad and limited perspective. You should want more for your self and your country.

We will probably keep trying to connect with you BEFORE you make any dramatic change – though tensions will probably still be high on both sides. If you do decide to physically mutilate yourself, then you can plan that we will walk away. You'll be on your own to live with your doing, good or bad.  Thats your decision. I will be doing way better in general, but of course as any complex Human life I will have ups and downs. It is tragic that you could turn yourself off from me, and allow my life to pass by as though I have abandoned you. I am right here, Dad. I love you. I can not be the person you want me to be. But I am still here, still you child, and I need you. I need you to realize that this isn't as simple as it seems to you. I am not trying to attack you for your beliefs, I know you really believe them and that this seems the only reasonable way to handle this. I'm just trying to shake you out of your tunnel vision. Please see that you can not see this clearly. Please realize that before it is too late, before you do something you will regret. I know its heartbreaking to you that I could be transsexual, but I am. And I am happy! I am so happy and well, and I have never been more sure of myself and who I am. I'm not asking for you to embrace me as your daughter today, though that is possible and wuld be beautiful. I am just asking for you to try and find humility here, to access supportive resources that can help you understand. You can still decide to reject this after, but until you try and see it another way - you are doing a disservice to both of us. You owe it to yourself to see if theres more to this than you think. And if you give up on me before you exhaust those resources then you have not acted in selfless love at all. Don't forget that. What would happen if you and Mom embraced me as your daughter? Just do me a favor, and for 1-2 minutes sit and really think about how bad life could be if you did that. Would it feel better at the end of the day to say you had turned your back on your kid who "mutilated" their body, or would it feel better to know that even though you didn't understand or agree with the decision, you wanted this brief life to include your child. We don't get to live this life twice, Dad. It is brief and fleeting and I just want to be happy and whole while I am here. Please don't leave me alone in it. Who cares what seems normal? This is the life I have been given, and its the life you have been given too...I don't want to lose my family. It is not my decision to lose you, either. If I can keep you only by staying male, then I have lost you already. If I stayed a boy and kept going to family events, you might be happy, but I would be dead - just a figment of myself dressing up for you to be proud of. I want more from life.

I have offered you my council before, and I will offer it again. If you still want to go on vacation, you can – just catch your mother before she cancels your flight. We don't have to dwell on this subject for a week, but it may give us a chance to talk privately sometime during the week.

If you still want to be part of a family, you just need to know where to draw the line between a private fetish, and really screwing yourself up.

Your Father (at least for now!)

You may be able to stop being my Dad but I will always be your kid. I love you, and I want to thank you for bringing me into this world and taking such good care of me. I am so sorry you are hurting. I am so grateful for the family I have and I just hope that you find love and peace within and between us one day. I am always here for you, too.

Edited unreadable pink text

Quote from: EmeraldPerpugilliam on May 03, 2013, 09:20:59 AM
Your parents are giving me drive to prove them wrong so I can imagine they are just spurring you on aswell.

You guessed correctly!  I won't negotiate with terrorists :)

@Di:  I like the reply.  I may add in something about slowly-increasing dysphoria was making it harder to get work done as a male.  That definitely would have had a significant negative impact on my career once somebody caught on.

All my best to you.

Honestly Anna I think you would have eventually had problems with your parents even if you weren't trans at all. I can tell by reading these emails they are pretty controlling and don't treat you like an adult who is capable of making your on decisions in life. Your parents need to learn that part of being a good parent is when to know when to let go and let your children make their on mistakes. Making mistakes is part of growing up and is the only way we learn. Your parents should know this you need to remind them you are not a child who needs every decision made for you. Something tells me any decision you make on your on without their approval would cause a problem. While being trans is a major thing it's not the whole problem with this situation. The problem is your parents need to learn a thing called boundaries.

Quote from: Misato on May 03, 2013, 08:39:57 AM
Also want to note you're active on this site, and even from here alone, so I know you know about all the ups and downs of transition.  With that grounding, I've no doubt you will continue to be successful and will become an amazing woman!

:D  That's right, and I plan to be here for a long time!

Quote from: Heather on May 03, 2013, 10:39:45 AM
Your parents should know this you need to remind them you are not a child who needs every decision made for you. Something tells me any decision you make on your on without their approval would cause a problem. While being trans is a major thing it's not the whole problem with this situation. The problem is your parents need to learn a thing called boundaries.

I hope that they'll eventually learn the boundary lesson from this situation.  I don't like the idea that my life is supposed to revolve around them.

Huge Hugs Anna. I just read your post where you quoted your parent's emails. I can not believe that they can be so mean to their child.  :'(  I love your attitude that you have kept thought all of this. Stay strong and true to yourself. I pray that they will come around and see how happy you are as a woman.

One last thing. Congratulations on starting HRT a week ago today!!!!

Quote from: Crazy MotherFYI ... here is the cancellation policy. Since I originally made the reservation, I will keep the credit to my account. I am also going to keep the money you gave me to pay for your seat. I will consider it reimbursement for the monies you owe me. You can start paying me back for the UM tuition/room & board now. I work for an attorney and know my legal rights to get my money back. Perhaps you should take out a loan to pay me back.

She actually has that bassackwards.

You might want to look at this:  Legal Duty of Parent in USA to Pay for Child's College Education

I would also let her know that you are praying for her soul, after all, wrath, greed, and pride are three of the seven deadly sins.  And well, those have led to theft too (keeping your airplane fare).

One other thing.  The "mutilation comment.  I wonder what your parents nave to say about Matthew 19:12

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
"For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

These were Jesus's words.  Are they denying, or unable to accept, the Gospel?

Best thing I heard about this overall: Parents are not failures because they have LGBT children. They become failures when they abandon them. Your parents seem ready to abandon you--ALL of you, even the obviously good parts of who you are, and by your attitude and words here, I'm sure there are a great many of those qualities in you. That makes them failures. Any parent who abandons their child for any reason is a failure.

The religious aspect might make this an untenable situation. When you say you cannot negotiate with terrorists, that really is what this religion is making them act as: you follow that which you know is right and harms no one, and yes you will be punished for it, not just by us, but by the almighty, forever. Wow, only your excellent attitude keeps this thread from being a crippling downer. Keep that chin up, and keep doing what you believe is right. It's your life. Live it, and live it well, on your own terms, not by theirs.

QuoteI also believe in God and Jesus and angels and that Hell exists. I truly believe there is good and evil on this Earth and evil is always trying to round up others to be in their court no matter what. I also know that when people suffer, they look toward their beliefs and God to help them get through tough times.

I personally wonder if you are going through this in order to find God. I believe that God has a plan for you but it may be a bumpy road in order to get to the finish line. I also know that if ask Jesus for help, he will help you no matter what.

So, I can let you go because I have asked God and Jesus to be in charge of "driving the bus" for you because I am unable to know what the grand plan is for you. So, I let go and let God.

This. This is it in a nutshell.

It's exactly as Lennon/MacCartney wrote half a century ago

"Living is easy with eyes closed
Misunderstanding all you see...." (Strawberry Fields)

Religion can be a positive influence in life, but this isn't religion, it's the illusion of religion. It's so much easier when you can fall back on God as your imaginary friend and means of external validation and lay all the blame on Satan, there's no need for any sense of personal responsibilty, no need to question any assumptions, to empathize or to try and connect and somehow understand others in your life.

It seems that having kids has given your parents a sense of authority where they feel at one with God, on the same level and now they have cast you out of their heaven.

The irony of all this is Anna that you could walk into any church and relate your story and this thread as a much more accurate example of 'how God works' and a sizeable number of the congregation would throw a hissy fit and want to kill you.

I call it the 'solar mentality', a mind which works pretty much the same as the solar system which revolves round the sun, this mind needs an authority figure in which to function.

But we live in a Universe, and we are subject to the same principles. There is synchronicity, everything is related, and where there is action, there will always be reaction.

I have every faith in you on your journey and your spirit and character shines throughout this thread. Please keep that faith in yourself, because it is enough to carry you through even when you think it might not, and the energy you give out will come back to carry you through. Be free to define your life by your choices and actions, not by those of your parents.

Quote from: Bethany Dawn on May 03, 2013, 07:05:38 PM
Huge Hugs Anna. I just read your post where you quoted your parent's emails. I can not believe that they can be so mean to their child.  :'(  I love your attitude that you have kept thought all of this. Stay strong and true to yourself. I pray that they will come around and see how happy you are as a woman.

That's the hope!

Quote
One last thing. Congratulations on starting HRT a week ago today!!!!

Thanks :).  Week two should be better!  (my parents left for vacation early this morning, so I won't have to hear from them for an entire week! :D)

Quote from: Jamie D on May 03, 2013, 10:12:51 PM
These were Jesus's words.  Are they denying, or unable to accept, the Gospel?

They seem to be doing a good job twisting my words to meet their goals, I would expect them to ignore the parts of the bible that don't agree with them as well.

Quote from: StellaB on May 04, 2013, 01:56:54 AM
The irony of all this is Anna that you could walk into any church and relate your story and this thread as a much more accurate example of 'how God works' and a sizeable number of the congregation would throw a hissy fit and want to kill you.

That's sad but true.  And I would probably just stand there confused about why they don't like atheist transexuals.

Quote
I have every faith in you on your journey and your spirit and character shines throughout this thread. Please keep that faith in yourself, because it is enough to carry you through even when you think it might not, and the energy you give out will come back to carry you through. Be free to define your life by your choices and actions, not by those of your parents.

I can do that!  The only thing I'll admit to believing in is myself :).

Thanks again for the support, everybody.  I really needed it after yesterday.

I had a relaxing 3 weeks.  My parents have taken a step backward - from email to snail mail.  I haven't read the whole letter yet but page 5 out of 5 contains:

Quote
Fortunately we are not called to accomplish this task on our own for he uses His word, people, and counseling.

The Lord and the Master Tailor guarentees His work and He never fails. As it took time to make and like the jacket; so change in us will take time but getting closer to the Lord, we are restored and healed

Additional resources: help4families, narth, tradingmysorrows

I'm watching a movie with one of my friends in a couple of hours.  I hope she can quickly skim the real letter and tell me if I should bother reading it before shredding.

The second part can be read as them while not liking what you are doing in time they may come to accept it. BUt that maybe me being to kind so who knows.

Isn't there something you can do with the local post office to have them not send mail from them like redirect it back or something?

Quote from: EmeraldPerpugilliam on May 25, 2013, 03:32:00 PM
The second part can be read as them while not liking what you are doing in time they may come to accept it. BUt that maybe me being to kind so who knows.

Maybe... but the "additional resources" part links to organizations that use psychotherapy to "cure" LGBT people (Ironic, considering they also suggested I've been brainwashed by a set of lesbians)

Quote
Isn't there something you can do with the local post office to have them not send mail from them like redirect it back or something?

If I get more letters then I may consider doing just that.  My parents occasionally forward mail for me that has arrived at their place, so I don't want to filter that out too quickly.

Am I the only one who each time this thread gets updated hears Norman Greenbaum's 'Spirit in the Sky' song in my head?

I'm sorry Anna, but it's almost like thinking of the Lone Ranger each time you hear the William Tell Overture.

But then again I can find fault with your mother's logic writing as someone who's butt ugly. I think it's a terrible analogy given the amount of people out there who are born with defects and hereditary impairments.

I mean can you imagine say, someone born with asthma? 'No doctor no inhalers for me. The Lord gave me perfect lungs and I quite enjoy wheezing all the time."

I also suspect that she wants you to find a 'cure'. But then again, I also suspect she reads too many coloured magazines.

Quote from: StellaB on May 25, 2013, 04:40:25 PM
Am I the only one who each time this thread gets updated hears Norman Greenbaum's 'Spirit in the Sky' song in my head?

I've heard the song!  But no, it doesn't play through my head.  At least not yet... maybe next time...

Quote
I also suspect that she wants you to find a 'cure'. But then again, I also suspect she reads too many coloured magazines.

And all this time I thought the cure to me wanting to be a woman was to become a woman! :laugh:  I hope that one day she realizes that "trans but don't want to be" doesn't describe how I feel any more.

For me the only cure worth finding is the band The Cure XD

Quote from: Anna! on May 25, 2013, 04:45:01 PM
And all this time I thought the cure to me wanting to be a woman was to become a woman! :laugh:  I hope that one day she realizes that "trans but don't want to be" doesn't describe how I feel any more.

Now that is logical.. and what's more you can easily twist your mother's logic round to agree.

I mean, if the Lord didn't want you to transition, He would not have made you trans. See?

You can see even on your pic that you're becoming who you're meant to be. Kind of sad your parents are cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

Quick update:  I had a friend read the letter and her eyes went wide several times while she was looking at it.  Apparently it was something rambling about religion, with made-up regret statistics thrown in.  She suggested that it would be best if I didn't read it, so straight to the shredder it goes!

Quote from: Anna! on May 25, 2013, 08:36:19 PM
Quick update:  I had a friend read the letter and her eyes went wide several times while she was looking at it.  Apparently it was something rambling about religion, with made-up regret statistics thrown in.  She suggested that it would be best if I didn't read it, so straight to the shredder it goes!

Anna,
I'm so sorry things have come this far - they have their course and you have yours and I don't think they understand you're not moving no matter what they say.

But. You are demonstrating incredible strength in your response. I only wish there were a way to temper it with reconciliation.

I've decided that I'm only going to reply to non-horrible email.  Like the other day, my mom sent one asking if I had rescheduled my upcoming dentist appointment so it doesn't conflict with my friend's wedding.  I replied with a simple "yes".  Hopefully I can use some kind of conditioning so they eventually only send friendly letters :)

Quote from my friend:

QuoteIt was pretty bad, and mostly incoherent.

Anna,

I'm so sorry to hear this whole ordeal.  I knew things were rough with your family, but..... well, I just read this thread.  Big hugs.

Yeah you're doing amazing.

And what is that I see?... Congratulations on your one month HRT anniversary!

Quote from: learningtolive on May 26, 2013, 12:00:14 AM
I'm so sorry to hear this whole ordeal.  I knew things were rough with your family, but..... well, I just read this thread.  Big hugs.

Thanks, the hug is very much appreciated :)

Quote from: Misato on May 26, 2013, 07:46:56 AM
And what is that I see?... Congratulations on your one month HRT anniversary!

Whoo!  :icon_woowoo:  Bring on month two!

Quote from: kyh on May 26, 2013, 11:53:58 AM
GRATS on 1 month of hormones! :D I'm on day 2 of hormones, but not that far off! Glad we can go on this journey together Anna :)

Me too!  One month isn't too far off in the bigger scheme of things.  You'll have almost a month to prepare yourself for anything hormonal that I might post about :)

Quote from: Anna! on May 26, 2013, 12:43:15 PM
Me too!  One month isn't too far off in the bigger scheme of things.  You'll have almost a month to prepare yourself for anything hormonal that I might post about :)

I'll follow your progress with bated breath! ^_^

Just beware of what happens during Month 3, girls. >_>

Quote from: ZoeM on May 26, 2013, 12:52:55 PM
Just beware of what happens during Month 3, girls. >_>

Do tell!!!! >_<

Quote from: kyh on May 26, 2013, 12:53:36 PM
Do tell!!!! >_<

Perhaps in a different thread so this one doesn't get too off-topic?

Quote from: Anna! on May 26, 2013, 12:57:30 PM
Perhaps in a different thread so this one doesn't get too off-topic?

Good idea! Hope you make that thread ZoeM :D

Hope so to as I am heading into month 4 and haven't noticed much.

Just so nobody else gets confused: I was joking. Aside from comfortable amounts of breast sensitivity, I noticed nothing during Month 3.

Same here, although some have said things really kick in around the 5-6 month mark so I can report on that later XD

*We now return you to regular broadcast topic*

It's not over yet, folks.  I got this yesterday:

Quote
The cottonwood tree fuzz is falling and it makes me think of my son. The fuzz falls near his birthday, and I remember all his birthdays past. I really, really miss him with his happy smile and whistle. And I wish I could hug him again. There's a hole in my heart that won't go away.

I've decided just to ignore it.  Should I be concerned that I'm feeling emotionally numb towards my parents right now?  I'm not angry, I'm not sad, I'm not disappointed, and I'm definitely not happy.  I feel nothing right now.

Quote from: Anna! on June 06, 2013, 08:10:52 AM
It's not over yet, folks.  I got this yesterday:

I've decided just to ignore it.  Should I be concerned that I'm feeling emotionally numb towards my parents right now?  I'm not angry, I'm not sad, I'm not disappointed, and I'm definitely not happy.  I feel nothing right now.

I'm sorry Anna I know how that feels.

What does that even mean? So they are still in the ignore it stage?

If I was you, and even snarkier than I really am, I might email them this image:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-trGAiBrCEKQ%2FTdEiaV9w6_I%2FAAAAAAAAB6I%2F05I4FeUd2s8%2Fs1600%2FNile_iStock_000003186727Small.jpg&hash=e71b525b1a35e466500380d631a777dd7d7eaf28)
(Yes, that is a picture of people in the nile. ^-^ )

Quote from: ZoeM on June 06, 2013, 08:49:22 AM
If I was you, and even snarkier than I really am, I might email them this image:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-trGAiBrCEKQ%2FTdEiaV9w6_I%2FAAAAAAAAB6I%2F05I4FeUd2s8%2Fs1600%2FNile_iStock_000003186727Small.jpg&hash=e71b525b1a35e466500380d631a777dd7d7eaf28)
(Yes, that is a picture of people in the nile. ^-^ )

Ha!

Quote from: Anna! on June 06, 2013, 08:10:52 AM
It's not over yet, folks.  I got this yesterday:

I've decided just to ignore it.  Should I be concerned that I'm feeling emotionally numb towards my parents right now?  I'm not angry, I'm not sad, I'm not disappointed, and I'm definitely not happy.  I feel nothing right now.

I'm in the same boat regarding my old man, Anna.  I don't understand this idea that just because someone is family why we had handle a situation like this differently.  Anyone else treated you like they've treated you I've no doubt you'd, I'd follow up with a "see ya!"

I've also encounter a lot of talk about how we're selfish for transitioning.  Nay. A demonstration of selfishness is right there in that last e-mail from your mom.  She clearly does not care about you, or at least she cares about herself a lot more.  It's not surprising that you've gone cold to them cause they don't care.  What's the phrase, "unrequited love" from you to them.

Hang in there Anna.  You're going to have an awesome transition!

Quote from: Tristan on June 06, 2013, 08:40:38 AM
What does that even mean? So they are still in the ignore it stage?

That's what it seems like.  It took me 12 years to move out of that stage, I hope they'll get through it quicker.

Quote from: ZoeM on June 06, 2013, 08:49:22 AM
If I was you, and even snarkier than I really am, I might email them this image:

(Yes, that is a picture of people in the nile. ^-^ )

Hahaha!  That's actually somewhat tempting :P

Quote from: Misato on June 06, 2013, 09:07:54 AM
I've also encounter a lot of talk about how we're selfish for transitioning.  Nay. A demonstration of selfishness is right there in that last e-mail from your mom.  She clearly does not care about you, or at least she cares about herself a lot more.  It's not surprising that you've gone cold to them cause they don't care.  What's the phrase, "unrequited love" from you to them.

Agreed.  She's asking me to make myself unhappy so that she doesn't have to learn how to accept LGBT people, and that's not cool with me.  I've only had 41 days of HRT and I already know that I could never go back!

I don't want to make a second thread, so my updates are going here.  My parents have been behaving (for some definition of "behaving" that mostly means I haven't heard anything too horrible from them in a few weeks).  I discovered a voicemail from my mom saying that she and my dad are always thinking about me that was sent a couple of hours before their flight to California to visit my brother.  I decided to try updating them on my life to see how they react!  Here is what I sent:

Quote
Hi Mom and Dad,

I haven't talked to you in a while, so I figured I would update you on how I've been doing recently. And I've been doing really well! I've been really busy with both working and my friends in Ann Arbor. I also took a weekend trip to Chicago to visit with friends out there.

I also started hormones a while ago. I can honestly say I haven't felt this great in years! I'm sleeping better, I'm happier, and I've even had a few people comment on how I'm more social now. It's an amazing feeling and I know that this is the right path for me. I hope you can understand.

I hope you have fun visiting with <brother> in California! How is everything else going on your end?

Quote from: Anna! on July 02, 2013, 07:28:33 PM
I don't want to make a second thread, so my updates are going here.  My parents have been behaving (for some definition of "behaving" that mostly means I haven't heard anything too horrible from them in a few weeks).  I discovered a voicemail from my mom saying that she and my dad are always thinking about me that was sent a couple of hours before their flight to California to visit my brother.  I decided to try updating them on my life to see how they react!  Here is what I sent:

Anna I think that's a good idea to keep a line of communication open with your parents. It shows you care about them still after all you and your parents have been through the past few months. Give it some time the fact your not updating this thread much is a good sign and they might come around eventually.  :)

I am loving your new profile pic btw Anna. Sorry, probably the wrong place for it, but still.. :-)

Thats a brilliant letter you sent them. Its absolutely perfect...I hope they respond decently...so impressed by you - and you look beautiful.

Di

Quote from: Heather on July 02, 2013, 10:22:12 PM
Give it some time the fact your not updating this thread much is a good sign and they might come around eventually.  :)

They have slowed down a little bit and I don't hear as much from them.  There have been a few emails that I skipped posting here, but still shared with my Facebook friends.

Quote from: Akira21 ♡♡♡ on July 03, 2013, 03:19:16 PM
I am loving your new profile pic btw Anna. Sorry, probably the wrong place for it, but still.. :-)

Thanks!  I've only worn that shirt a few times, but it's quickly become on of my favorites :)

Quote from: PrincessDi on July 04, 2013, 06:03:14 PM
Thats a brilliant letter you sent them. Its absolutely perfect...I hope they respond decently...so impressed by you - and you look beautiful.

Di

No reply yet.  They're both in California until early next week, so I don't expect them to read it until then.  I just wanted to get it out of the way while I was thinking about it.  If I had waited a week I may not have followed through.

My mom called at 1:30 this morning, and I just listened to the voicemail.

- They are having fun in California with my brother
- They're happy that I'm happier now, but they're unhappy that I'm taking this route
- They have a history with their son, not with Anna (I guess I need to remind them that my memories won't be wiped, and that I'll still be the same person)
- They don't know what is in store for the future of our family, they haven't mentioned anything about me to anybody else.

Same old...  But it sounds less pushy and,  well,  less crazy.  At least those sets of lesbians from Mars are no longer draining your brain energy.  Must be the tin foil hat. 

I always think it's cool that our tickers are the same date :-)   

Quote from: Akira21 ♡♡♡ on July 07, 2013, 05:10:15 PM
Same old...  But it sounds less pushy and,  well,  less crazy.  At least those sets of lesbians from Mars are no longer draining your brain energy.  Must be the tin foil hat.

So... progress on their end?

Quote from: Akira21 ♡♡♡ on July 07, 2013, 05:11:44 PM
I always think it's cool that our tickers are the same date :-)   

I know, right :D


Here's the latest from my mom.  The beginning was a summary of their California adventure, followed by:

Quote
So, as always we had another enjoyable family adventure.  The only thing missing is YOU.

Next Sunday your dad has to leave for Spain for work.  Would it be possible for us to get together that afternoon and for dinner?  Maybe we could go somewhere for a walk that afternoon.  Also, if we do get together, could you look like <Male name> for me?  I have been a mess crying (and sometimes throwing up) because of this issue we are having.  I even started crying while riding the BART into SF.  So, you can see I'm having an extremely had time with this and I need you to help me before I jump off a cliff.

Let me know if next Sunday will work.  I think it might be about July 14 but I don't have a calendar in front of me.

Would meeting them be a good idea?

Anna only you can answer that! If it was me I would try to work things out with your parents at least reach some sort of truce. But your mom right now might not be willing to do that now she is still grieving. And I noticed a lot of how she feeling about this without actually asking how your handling this. So there is a certain element of selfishness going on here where your mom seems to want to tell you how much pain she's in. But is not to concerned how your feeling. She probably trying to guilt you out of your decision to transition. I know this because my mom uses the same tactic. But the choice whether or not to meet with her should come down to Whether your up too it. I hope everything works out for you.  :)

I'm not going to reach a decision on if I'll meet right away.  The only thing I have decided is that IF I go, I'm bringing a friend.

Quote from: Anna! on July 08, 2013, 11:56:31 AM
I'm not going to reach a decision on if I'll meet right away.  The only thing I have decided is that IF I go, I'm bringing a friend.

Anna,
Good luck if you do decide to go. Just know you have incredible strength to face this - more than any three cisfolks. I shall pray for you.

Quote from: Heather on July 08, 2013, 11:54:36 AM
Anna only you can answer that! If it was me I would try to work things out with your parents at least reach some sort of truce. But your mom right now might not be willing to do that now she is still grieving. And I noticed a lot of how she feeling about this without actually asking how your handling this. So there is a certain element of selfishness going on here where your mom seems to want to tell you how much pain she's in. But is not to concerned how your feeling. She probably trying to guilt you out of your decision to transition. I know this because my mom uses the same tactic. But the choice whether or not to meet with her should come down to Whether your up too it. I hope everything works out for you.  :)

This 100%.

If it were me my paranoia tendencies wouldn't allow me to go as I'd be worried they'd be setting me up to get locked away in a mental asylum, as archaic as that sounds it does still happen unfortunately. Also it does seem like she is making it about her still and not asking you how you are handling everything. That said it is your decision and taking a friend would be a good idea if you do go.

I'm leaning towards going, but it's not going to be at either my place or their's.  I hope to find a nice, public coffee shop to meet at.  If things begin turn hostile I'll be able to get up and leave.

Anna, I hope things go well if you meet with them.  I know how you feel about your family, but it would be good to give it a chance if they are willing to try and understand this; however, if they aren't, then you need to be aware of that fact.  Have you talked to them about where they currently stand?  It's one thing to for them to be confused and feel sad by this change, but continuous hostility and opposition against you isn't healthy for anyone involved.  Denial and conflicted emotions are okay as long as they don't harass you.  Still, this is your family.  I imagine you want things to desperately improve.   It's your decision as it is your life, but I would try to meet with them.  As difficult as things have been with my mom, not seeing her would be a terrible thing for me.  I imagine you feel the same.  So, that's the only little tid bit of insight I can provide.

Good luck with whatever you decide :)

I've decided to try it and hope for something good.  Here is the reply I got to my acceptance:

Quote
OK, I can use the GPS to find the place. In all honesty I'm a bit afraid to see you and feel myself shaking now (I'm at work but <boss> is gone for lunch at the moment). So, please, no surprises when I see you ....

I will have questions that I hope you can answer on how the meds will affect your health in the long run. I know estrogen causes bone problems which is why Grandma's spine dics have been damaged and I have osteoporosis as well. And, how all this will affect your Chron's issue and the Humira. I want you to think on how we are to interact as an immediate family and with all the relatives. Pleasing your friends is one thing and interacting with relatives is another.

As you can see, I'm always in mother mode and try to look at the whole picture now and down the road.

MOM

She still seems convinced that my friends knew about this before I told them :(...

I guess I need to come up with a reply to as much of this as possible before Sunday.

I am struck that you are not,or shouldn't be, out to please anyone but yourself.  Maybe I read that wrong?

Quote from: Antonia J on July 09, 2013, 03:33:55 PM
I am struck that you are not,or shouldn't be, out to please anyone but yourself.  Maybe I read that wrong?

No, you read that right.  In some of their other emails they've suggested that my friends brainwashed the trans into me.

Quote from: Anna! on July 09, 2013, 01:58:48 PM
I've decided to try it and hope for something good.  Here is the reply I got to my acceptance:

She still seems convinced that my friends knew about this before I told them :(...

I guess I need to come up with a reply to as much of this as possible before Sunday.

I hope it goes well.  And don't worry about your mom thinking your friends talked you into it.  My mom says the same thing all the time.  She thinks my friends and I discussed how transitioning would be the cool thing to do,lol.  As though that's how we determined to go down this path.  Hopefully, in time she will see that this isn't a phase. 

I don't get how anyone could honestly believe someone would opt-in to this.  This coming from someone who thinks having the transition path put in front of her is one of the best things to have ever happened to her!  But, the goodness is only true because I am a female.  If I weren't, from what I know of guys, what's gone and happened between my legs would have me taking baths in that T gel stuff they promote on TV.

The closest argument you could make about me opting-in is that I'm transitioning now, and not a few years from now.  Either way, we still end up at this point eventually. :)

She thinks you're the one with issues, yet she's vomiting and may very well throw herself off a cliff...

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1272.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy393%2FDraskel%2Ftumblr_m6cn6knen41r27bv4_zps90c9a4b2.gif&hash=b34b116384d0ffd50ae33f9017810e7474f6f455)

Sorry to any of you hoping for good news:

My mom sat down in the cafe and she was visibly shaking. She asked in an abrupt tone "Do you have answers for my questions?". So I went in to my gastrointestinal doctor saying everything is okay and that he doesn't have a problem with my transition. That may have helped my Aunt, but it didn't help my mom. She tried to blame herself "What did we do to you ash a child to cause this?" and I answered with how being trans is just who I am, it's not anyones fault. I don't think she bought it. I also don't think she believed me when I said that estrogen is used to repair bone loss and not to encourage it.

She also asked about my future - would I feel comfortable living a lie and not having any history? I figured I would be honest here that no, I'm not comfortable living a lie. That's why I'm transitioning in the first place, and I'll be more than willing to be open with my friends, family, and SO (since it's important to be honest with him or her).

Somewhere in there she commented on how much of a mess she was. And that she's thought about killing me enough to have my dad hide their gun from her. I'm really, really, really scared right now and I see it taking a long time for me to ever feel comfortable in their house again. Apparently even my dad was worried about her "let's go on a nature trail. alone." plan. Apparently she actually had thought about taking me out there and then leaving my body for the squirrels.

Other notes - she said I'm being selfish, and that I have to think about how others react. She doesn't care that I feel better about myself now because I always seemed happy around them (of course, during those times she just mentioned my thoughts were "hold the smile and nobody will have to know that anything is wrong"). She thinks my brother has taken it poorly because he didn't want to talk about me during their California trip. She prays to her God every day asking for a way to stop caring about me so she can let me go.  She said "no" to therapy today because she doesn't want somebody trying to change her mind.



How am I doing after this?  I'm terrified.  It will be a long, long time before I ever feel comfortable setting foot in their house now that I know they have a gun and that she's thought about using it on me.  Just thinking about it has me in tears right now.  I don't see much hope for a good relationship after this.

Holy ..., Anna.
I know we talked over Twitter, but holy...

O.o

If something happens, call the police. Also I think this is a good time for chocolate therapy. :(

Chocolate therapy!?! sounds more like get out of Dodge and find a secure place to hold up time. Mom needs therapy and if she seriously thinks of killing her daughter, she needs to be in a psych hospital for a bit. I say have her commited.

Anna,

This has just brought things to a whole new level.  If she has a gun and has made detailed plans on how she would kill you, I think you need to distance yourself from her for your safety.  This is no longer just a family tiff.  This is about your protection. And she is the one that is being selfish and bringing this about. Does she know where you currently live?  Does she know your daily schedule?   If so, please make sure you are aware of her thoughts.  I don't want to say anything bad about your mother, but sometimes family members lose it and follow through with their dangerous thoughts.  There have been cases of lgbt violence committed by family members.  I'm not trying to scare you, but I care about your safety so please be aware. 

I think we're long past concerns about being nice to doesn't-have-any-right-to-call-herself-Anna's-mom.

I think we're more in the neighborhood of she made a threat on your life and is growing more unstable.  My dad went nutty like this and closed his eyes while driving having "faith" God would guide him home.  He crashed through a billboard.

You gotta take preventative action with the police.  If you are forced into a position where you have to defend yourself while trans, the police and the courts have proven unjust.

Quote from: LordKAT on July 14, 2013, 10:43:31 PM
Mom needs therapy and if she seriously thinks of killing her daughter, she needs to be in a psych hospital for a bit. I say have her commited.

I've had other friends tell me this several times over the last few months.  Can you have somebody forcibly committed?

Quote from: learningtolive on July 14, 2013, 10:54:53 PM
Does she know where you currently live?  Does she know your daily schedule?   If so, please make sure you are aware of her thoughts.  I don't want to say anything bad about your mother, but sometimes family members lose it and follow through with their dangerous thoughts.  There have been cases of lgbt violence committed by family members.  I'm not trying to scare you, but I care about your safety so please be aware. 

She does know where I live and she has a basic idea of my daily schedule.  I don't feel safe by myself anymore, so I'm changing my schedule a bit so I can always be around people.

If you are truly afraid for your life, get a TRO.  You may not be able to see your Dad, except out of the house, but it may be worth it.  Your Call, Sis.

Yes, you can have someone committed for up to 3 days for assessment. Longer will depend on the assessment. Your country may have different rules about that, but it can happen here.

My mom did have to have unanimous consent with her brothers in order to put my Grandma in the hospital.

That I believe, a psychiatrists word is enough but it takes a family agreeing that  help is needed makes sense.

Anna I am so sad to hear how your mom is taking your transition. I think you need to talk to the police as she did threaten you with bodily harm. You should be able get a restraining order against her. Please be diligent and safe.

Please call the police...My heart is with you. <3

Calling the police is a good idea, but it's likely that won't solve the problem in itself.  They may not do anything other than filing a report and or they may take slight action that could provoke her to take further action.  I'm not bashing the authorities, but they are usually powerless to prevent something without hard evidence or monitoring the situation 24/7 (which won't happen).  Whatever you do, please be aware of your surroundings and be on the look out for anything odd.  Your mother may just be grieving and might not have real intentions to follow through with her plans, but make sure you realize the severity of the situation. 

Call the police. YOu need to really as if it continues and you decide later, they will have previous information and complaints to establish a pattern.

It sounds like she is having a breakdown. I mean, you said she wasn't particularly religious before and that changed and you have never heard her talk about aliens or guns or anything or act in this scary way before as I recall? Her behaviour has changed greatly and she sounds like she needs proper help for her own good.

Oh Lord no... just caught this thread..

But yes, report this to the police, try and find a way of getting your mother into psychiatric care (ideally of the secure institutionalized type) and change your daily schedule.

Sending hugs and positive vibes.

Mum's and dad's can say stupid things at times. My dad said before I started living as Bethany, "can't you not do it for 12 months, so we can get use to you being Bethany?"

What I would do is move, like now!!

You need to do what you HAVE to do. It's just about YOU and no one else. I know she's your mum, but you should NOT care what she wants/thinks.

You need to be happy with YOUR life and be the girl you always have been.

Do what they want and you will not be happy at all!!

Wow, I'm just chiming in for a little moral support; I don't really have much to add. Beyond ... just wow. I might be worried for your dad's safety as well. Yes, moms can say crazy things (mine is 80, and eastern european, so I know, although she handled my news with such grace and dignity and only a few question over a glass of wine that I feel guilty even mentioning it in this thread...) but actually saying I've got a gun and I've thought about using it on you is something straight out of Misery. I'm so sorry....

I haven't been on Susan's much lately and just stumbled on this thread. I'm so sorry you are going through this with your family, Anna!.  (((HUGS)))

Thanks everybody, sorry I haven't been on in a while.  I've talked with my Aunt and Uncle (her sister and brother), and they have no idea why she's reacting like this.  My uncle was even surprised at just how religious she seems to be now!  We'll see if they follow through with their threats (and hopefully exaggerations)...

Quote
Hey <Male name>:

The UM Family weekend is October 18-20. But, to put your mind to rest, I have booked a hotel. It also looks like I have first pickings this year to register. Registration begins August 15 and that's my day at 1:30 p.m.!

I would love to invite you, but I'm afraid you will no longer look like my son as the days progress. As I said earlier, you are changing both yourself and your parents. I have read where some parents have hoped for 11 years for their son to change their mind!!!!! Both your dad and I will not do that. Because you have hurt us so to the point where your dad dreams of shooting himself in the head in the shower because he has been a failure at fatherhood, we are only going to give it a year .... March 11, 2014. After that, we are going to be done because I will not allow you to destroy our happiness. I love your father too much to destroy him.

As I said, I will always love you and I am thankful that I had 24 years of being a proud, joyful parent to you. But ..... it's not all about you.

MOM

Quote from: Anna! on July 28, 2013, 09:11:29 AM
Thanks everybody, sorry I haven't been on in a while.  I've talked with my Aunt and Uncle (her sister and brother), and they have no idea why she's reacting like this.  My uncle was even surprised at just how religious she seems to be now!  We'll see if they follow through with their threats (and hopefully exaggerations)...

I really don't know what to say really your mom just keeps getting worse and worse. I think she needs some serious help. I'm glad to see you back on here I've noticed you haven't been on here lately.  :)

Quote from: Heather on July 28, 2013, 09:30:15 AM
I really don't know what to say really your mom just keeps getting worse and worse. I think she needs some serious help. I'm glad to see you back on here I've noticed you haven't been on here lately.  :)

I fear that she's getting the wrong kind of help.  She just joined a group called "help4families", a group I've seen described as "Reinforcement for Christian families who don't accept a member's ->-bleeped-<-".  I don't have high hopes :(

Yeah, I'm back!  I didn't actually mean to leave (see my post in "What Are You Thinking v5"), but hopefully I'll find time to keep posting :)

Oh dear, what can I say.

The way things are looking it seems like there may need to be a DSM-6, DSM-7 and DSM-8 just to keep track of your mother.

Can you afford to move to a new address and get a private mailbox? When I still had roommates, I had their names listed in the phone book and on bills, but I still didn't feel that I had enough of a buffer from my family. I needed a mailbox address that I could use for everything but the Registrar of Voters and the DMV. I never gave out my residence address to anyone else but close friends.

It really does sound as if your mother is losing it. I, too, think you should seriously consider talking to the police.

Anna, I am so sorry to hear about how your parents are still reacting, I hope you have distanced yourself from them to be safe. Please print up these emails from your family and bring them to the police.

Praying for your safty, and sending you hugs.

I'm sorry it's still going poorly.  Her comment on how "it's not all about you" while she is doing something hurtful towards you reminds me of how my family has been acting.  I like how she tries to turn it around and act like you are the one being selfish.  Yeah, disowning your child and kicking them out of your life is the child being selfish and making it all about themselves ::).   Given the way things have been turning out, you may want to be the one to distance yourself from her and not the other way around.  I really hope it gets better Anna. 

The letter is so toxic you're best to to ignore them totally. If this were my situation I'd report her for threatening to murder you and I'd call 911 to report that your father is threatening suicide.

As much as she is convinced that your friends around you are influencing your decisions in life, the same surely has to be said for her. Have you asked her about the groups and the people she takes counsel from in relation to your transition?

Reading all this is so sad and painful. I hope your ok and doing well after this, i don't have the words to describe how you must feel, but it makes me so so angry to read some of the outrageous and shocking statements from your mother.. my goodness!

Oh and the comment she made earlier about can you feel the presence of the Archangel Michael? I think she was implying that she was praying for you and asked for help.

Quote from: Bardoux on July 29, 2013, 06:30:43 AM
As much as she is convinced that your friends around you are influencing your decisions in life, the same surely has to be said for her. Have you asked her about the groups and the people she takes counsel from in relation to your transition?

This is what I was thinking.

Anna, you said something earlier about her joining "help4families." If that's the case, it's possible that she's just getting some really bad advice. Scare tactics, etc. Of course, in this situation it's better to play it safe and keep your distance (or move if you can!) but it sounds to me like a lot of what she's saying is calculated BS. Either way, she's bullying you and mistreating you so you're right to distance yourself from it.

I'm so sorry you have to go through this. :(

But after reading everything, I just want to tell you how impressed I am by you! You're so incredibly strong!

I'm wishing you the best in this whole messed up situation, and I hope it all works out for you. You deserve happiness. :)

I think my mom heard about me updating facebook.  I got this text message while I was at a game night this evening:  "we are not your parents.  You are not welcome in our house.  Change your last name".

I ended up leaving the game night to join a smaller group of friends to vent, and now i'm going to go to bed and cry myself to sleep.

Quote from: Anna! on August 16, 2013, 11:36:49 PM
I think my mom heard about me updating facebook.  I got this text message while I was at a game night this evening:  "we are not your parents.  You are not welcome in our house.  Change your last name".

I ended up leaving the game night to join a smaller group of friends to vent, and now i'm going to go to bed and cry myself to sleep.

That is just horrible! I'm so terribly sorry Anna nobody deserves to be told that by a so called parent. This behavior of theirs totally disgusts me. They are not worth your tears they are terrible parents and they don't deserve a daughter as good as you.  >:(

Sounds like they have given up their rights as parents(at least she has) not that it seems they could be called good parents anyway. Sorry this just steams me up that the people who should have 'unconditional love for you can be so hateful towards you wanting to be happy, last time I checked that is what real parents want for their children 'To be happy'.

Thanks you two.  I've had some sleep and i'm feeling a bit better.  I'm guessing that this will take at least a few days to recover from.

Quote from: Heather on August 17, 2013, 12:07:38 AM
That is just horrible! I'm so terribly sorry Anna nobody deserves to be told that by a so called parent. This behavior of theirs totally disgusts me. They are not worth your tears they are terrible parents and they don't deserve a daughter as good as you.  >:(

amen. Everything i wanted to say and more.

Anna, I can not believe that someone would be capable of treating their child in such a way.  :'(

Just know that we are here for you, always.
And like Heather said your parents are not deserving to have a daughter as good as you.

*Hugs*

My parents did the same to me very recently too. I could never do that to my child. 

Quote from: Anna! on August 16, 2013, 11:36:49 PM
I think my mom heard about me updating facebook.  I got this text message while I was at a game night this evening:  "we are not your parents.  You are not welcome in our house.  Change your last name".

I ended up leaving the game night to join a smaller group of friends to vent, and now i'm going to go to bed and cry myself to sleep.

Anna,

Nothing I can say or do can take away this pain which saddens me.  However, I would like to say that as a fellow transitioner and a peer of the Susan's community, I am really proud of your determination and inner strength.  You are a big inspiration to many here.  You have come a long way and have overcome lots of hard challenges.  This is something else that can be overcome.  I'm really sorry that you are being forced to handle this kind of pain, but this will fade and you will persevere. 

Having said that, I don't wish to give you false hope, but families can come around.  My situation isn't nearly as bad, but my mom had lost her mind for quite some time.  However, lately she has been much better with me.  I think she needed to see just how much she was hurting me and how her feelings were a bit selfish.  Parents do crazy things. I stopped fighting the abusive statements and just let my tears do the talking when I was called warped, an embarrassment or disgusting. I would try hugging her instead of returning her yelling and responding to her transphobic rants.  While my mom still hates that I'm doing this, she no longer taunts me after seeing how depressed and weepy I became from the attacks. It just took her time to realize it.  I realize our situations are very different and you have severe threats to consider, but I don't want you to think that there is no chance for reconciliation.  If you all love each other enough, things can turn around.  Of course, that is if you will want it, which I could understand if you have been pushed away too much at this point.  At this point in time, they have severed the ties and it is up to them to repair the damage.  I don't think you should be the one to initiate contact at this point in time.  They are the ones who have caused the damage and it will be up to them to fix it.  But like I said, things can turn around and I hope they do.

No matter what happens, you will be okay.  You have accomplished a lot so far and you have much more to take on.  One setback in life will not preclude you from succeeding in other things.  It's okay to cry and it's also okay to move on and leave the past behind if need be.  You have made it this far and no one can take away or belittle your successes (not even your parents).    Keep it up because everyone here in the Susan's family is really proud of you.

Quote from: Anna! on August 16, 2013, 11:36:49 PM
I think my mom heard about me updating facebook.  I got this text message while I was at a game night this evening:  "we are not your parents.  You are not welcome in our house.  Change your last name".

I ended up leaving the game night to join a smaller group of friends to vent, and now i'm going to go to bed and cry myself to sleep.

OMG, I'm so sorry. Reading that just made me sick at my stomach. That is just so horrible.. My heart really goes out to you dear.

I think the best thing at this point would be to cut any and all possible ties with them and put the responsibility on them to reestablish a loving relationship if they ever get over themselves.  I think I'd make someone work pretty damned hard to get back into my life after that.