Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Kia Ora,

Just been reading the sex change regrets thread, https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,134016.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,134016.0.html) and it got me 'thinking' I know, I know, I'm normally 'thoughtless'  😀
Well on a more serious note : How does one know for sure, without a doubt, in no uncertain terms,  that surgery will be the right thing to do for them, that is greatly  improve their quality of life ?

After all there are some reported cases where the so called competent person has had surgery and for a number of years lived a somewhat happy life, then wham out of the blue, they feel that it was all a  mistake and they deeply regret having surgery....

So some thing to give serious thought to, how confident are you that once you have surgery you will be happy with the 'new' life  ?

PLease note: This thread is not a 'Scare You Sh..less' thread... just a reality check I guess...

After all, if one has made their mind up to have surgery, nothing anybody says is going to stop them...

Metta Zenda 🙂

I have always hated having a vagina and I know with the current technology of FtM bottom surgeries, personally, I can never be "fully happy" with the results but for me, having a penis is better than not having a penis.  Even knowing the limitations of what bottom surgery has to offer, I have accepted that this is something I need.

Well, I'm 44 years old, going on 45 years, in March 24 :P, I can tell you this, I'm resolute in my actions,I feel if I make a decision, I have thought out all the repurcussions, and will accept it. Its just something that you feel you know deep down inside you, you have made the correct decision, after so many years of life, and research. A certain level of stablity, multifactorial, you may even say.

Lucia,

Quote from: Kuan Yin on March 19, 2013, 11:52:44 PM

After all there are some reported cases where the so called competent person has had surgery and for a number of years lived a somewhat happy life, then wham out of the blue, they feel that it was all a  mistake and they deeply regret having surgery....

I've read about some of these cases but I think this regret slowly develops over years/decades...sometimes they make it look like it suddenly appears out of the blue, but I find that hard to believe.

Here's such a story and a very strange one:

http://zagria.blogspot.ca/2012/12/gary-norton-1937-raf-architect.html (http://zagria.blogspot.ca/2012/12/gary-norton-1937-raf-architect.html)

Quote from: Dahlia on March 20, 2013, 06:24:00 AM
I've read about some of these cases but I think this regret slowly develops over years/decades...sometimes they make it look like it suddenly appears out of the blue, but I find that hard to believe.

Here's such a story and a very strange one:

http://zagria.blogspot.ca/2012/12/gary-norton-1937-raf-architect.html (http://zagria.blogspot.ca/2012/12/gary-norton-1937-raf-architect.html)

That's totally creepy! She knew in the OR as they were slicing and dicing that it was a mistake. This being the primary reason why therapy sessions are important and the secondary reason is the total suggestibility of the human brain on cross gender hormones coupled with the peer pressure that says you haven't fully arrived unless and until you've had SRS.

I feel the need to type a response.

I know for sure yes, now as for why... well I personally am at a point that I know for sure I will be dead if I dont, as I would rather be dead than still having something my mind is screaming at me shouldnt be there.

I probally could of actually paid for the surgery multiple times inthe last 10 years, and as I look back I wish I had of chose to go sooner than now, but because of several factors I didnt.
1. I had a somewhat functional relationship, even was married (as a girl) so to me at that point I felt it was enough, however toward the end it fell apart, partialy me partialy them I kinda ended up getting to a point of jus not caring and lost touch with myself , I personally think this was at fault for the undoing of my marriage I let myself go and was no-longer the sweet your girl he met or was in love with anymore, and so he went and cheated on me, I found out and couldnt handle it. I feel if I hadnt gotten to the point of thinking what I had was good enough and let myself go and actually pay pay for the surgery back then maybe we would still be together (probally not but...)
This is my view of what drove us apart, he saw that I wasnt truly happy something I couldnt see for myself, and that i was spending my money on distractions to keep my mind off of how unhappy I was. Truthfully I was unhappy and later it came to an apex and well here I am now leaving sunday for thailand excited,anxious, and really cant wait for this to be over, this is 6-7 years after me and my ex were seperated, I didnt learn imediately after I left I continued to try and keep myself distracted even though everyday I woke up I hated  and wanted the apendege to go away, I just kept trying to  cant change the past so it really does little to dwell on what could have been.
Do I think this surgery is going to change my whole life? No I don't and I think that is a reson for post srs regret, people truly dont answer themselves truthfully. I know its not some magical solution that once I have the surgery its going to be unicorns,sunshine and gummy bears. What I do know is it will finaly get rid of something I really dont want there, and it will make my pant fit better and allow me to be a bit more daring in certain clothes, and it will put my mind at rest finally so I dont have to wake up in the morning hating myself for not getting it done yet and being depressed because I have an un-needed ad on.
So the question was how can you know for sure? and thats how I know
but I will say this and I believe it to be what makes it so difficult and makes that post srs regret actually happen. I think society is still far to primal in this and they make to much of a deal of what shouldnt be. That is gay,lesbian,bi,trans - androginous and even what is sometimes refered to gender bending get way to much stigmata. who give a care if someone doesnt conform? I mean really, as long as you can pay your bills and live happy why should it matter but it does we get pushed into conformity and this is how people end up commiting surgery because they feel they made a mistake what I mean by this is .... an androginous or gender bending person makes the decision to get srs when they really didnt need it because family,friends,society, and yes even the GLB crowd push's them into it. This is one reason, the other is people are unhappy with their life and they think its some magic cure with the thought of "what better way to start over than in another gender" or they think "oh it would be so much easier if I was a girl and not a guy" or vice-versa  no-one should ever feel just because they are not a manly man,or girly girl that it isnt good enough, only person someone should make happy is themselves first,who cares what the other gazillin walkin and talkers think.
I have more I could say on this but I think at this point I have written a mini-novel.
so theres my opinion'(s)

I'll be honest, I'm not too scared about it. Because I'm in the camp of people who have always been uncomfortable with male genitals, even before I seriously started to consider transitioning. I hate them, I hate erections, I hate having a bulge in my pants, and I've never had much of a sex drive anyway, nor been comfortable in the male sexual role, so I think it's a virtual certainty that I'll enjoy having girl parts instead. Most of the "regret" cases that I've heard of have been from heavy cross-dressers who weren't really transsexual in the first place, and people who felt like they needed the surgery in order to make them feel like a woman. And, surprise, having a vagina didn't magically make them feel like a woman, but they didn't realize that until it was too late.

So seeing as how my issue with my genitals has always been based on feeling like they were "wrong," and not on wanting to look a certain way or feel a certain way, and I'm sure that I'm transsexual and not just a cross-dresser, since honestly I NEVER cross-dressed until after starting hormones, I feel like I don't fit the category of those who usually have regret at all. In fact, I'm pretty sure that SRS will just be one more thing, like my smoothing skin, and disappearing body hair, and feminizing face, that makes me smile like crazy every single time I see it in the mirror, because it looks and feels "right" for the first time, and like I finally am seeing my true self.

I've been thinking SRS lately a lot too, even when it's still a long way down the road, when that would be possible.

I'm kind of coming to the conclusion, that I will remain non-op. Mainly because I cannot really see what I would do with a vagina. I cannot really see what I would do with a penis either...I would just rather have a smooth skin between my legs than to take either of genitalia.

I know my opinion might change along the road, but at least at the moment I cannot see why would I go through surgery, when I don't really have the need of vagina and penis I can tuck away for good.

I think you can never know 100% whether something is the right thing to do, if it will turn out well, or if will make you happy, but I do believe that you can do things that put you pretty close to that 99.9% mark (A little doubt is normal, as you can't anticipate every possibility).

Seeing a therapist gives you a non-emotionally involved, well-educated perspective on your situation, as well as insight into the psychology and mentality of people like you. By having a third party opinion, you can at least be confident that you were not simply convincing or deluding yourself into believing you needed the surgery.

You weigh the pros and cons of the surgery, and decide if the path of surgery is better than the path of no surgery. The pros and cons can be gleaned from reading about the surgery, seeing pictures and/or live results, and reading/discussing with someone the results of their surgery and life. This part requires some honesty and realism, though. The pros may not be guaranteed, and the cons may be worse than anticipated. Still, I think we make a better decision, right or wrong, having weighed the options, rather than just blindly going forward.

I think attitude comprises a large part of whether surgery is successful and the right thing to do. Treating it like a magic wand that will change everything from bad to good will likely lead to disappointment. Treating it like a stepping stone to new opportunities is a better approach.

Ultimately I think favorable odds at being happy and having a better quality of life depend on having clear and realistic goals about SRS. For me, being MtF, having a vagina would make me feel complete as a woman. I would see it for the rest of my life and be reminded that having it helped me define part of who I am. With that confidence instilled in me, I feel like I can better approach the world.

If you waited for 100% assurance, you would never move forward, you would end up at a standstill.

Quote from: Henna on March 21, 2013, 05:31:14 AM
I've been thinking SRS lately a lot too, even when it's still a long way down the road, when that would be possible.

I'm kind of coming to the conclusion, that I will remain non-op. Mainly because I cannot really see what I would do with a vagina. I cannot really see what I would do with a penis either...I would just rather have a smooth skin between my legs than to take either of genitalia.

I know my opinion might change along the road, but at least at the moment I cannot see why would I go through surgery, when I don't really have the need of vagina and penis I can tuck away for good.

That was one of the thoughts that haunted me and came to a head immediately following my SRS pre-op consultation, that and I am married. Plus I've never been remotely interested in getting it on with a guy so I hit the wall with a WTF moment and finally came to terms with the plumbing that I was stuck with post orchiectomy.

Kia Ora

Here in Aotearoa [NZ] the government funds three surgeries every two years, this funding comes out of the "Special High Cost Treatment Funding Pool" which also states that having surgery is to provide the recipient with  a "better quality of life"...So potential candidates have to jump through government hoops, before they will part with the funding money...

There has been cases where a person 'regrets' having surgery, even though they had convinced the mental health professionals that they were ideal candidates for surgery... Sadly this safety net is not foolproof...

When I had the consultations with the individual members of psycho-surgical team, the surgeons told me the pros and cons and they didn't hold back on gruesome details...

Now the interesting thing about having surgery is, I had 'never' had any doubts about whether I should have surgery or not...When I first transitioned I was under the impression I would never  be able to afford it, but when I applied for, and got the government funding, I went into it with eyes wide open, no doubts whatsoever...I had nothing to lose  ::) apart from my male genitals which had been made redundant a few years back... 😉 ;D 


Metta Zenda 🙂

I'm with Neko on this one. You can't be 100% sure, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be cautious and get to a place where your confident in your decision before moving through with it. Living as your preferred gender, talking to a therapist, experimenting with dress and appearance to see if you like how surgery might feel (i.e. tucking, binding, etc..) Being fully aware of the options for both transition and detransitioning are a good idea before you make any moves. Getting acquainted with people who have the surgeries and are happy or unhappy with the results and why is a good idea. Getting to a confident place is best. Trying to get to a state of absolute certainty is just self defeating perfectionistic nonsense.

Kia Ora Chris,

The sad fact is, some need to have the surgery first in order to realise their mistake...

I'm a strong advocate for the "Real Life Experience" that is, one should get comfortable in their preferred gender role...Run the social gauntlet for a year or three, see how they cope...If they are "TOTALLY" comfortable and confident in their 'new' skin...Then go for it...

If one is still struggling after a year or more pre op [living full time], would having surgery be a good move ? Would it improve their quality of life?

Metta Zenda :) 

I know I was pretty sure goi g into srs that it was right for me. I also had people pushing me to do it. I will admit after srs for me everything changed. More guys for some reason have become interested in me. I think it's because the weather is warmer and I'm in gym cloths alot now. But the only sort of regret I had was right after surgery when I was in pain and in Thailand alone.  It's odd the more things change the more they stay the same is the best way I can put it with surgery. But I'm happy with my body now and don't have the worries I use to have. Plus I'm able to have what guys consider to be a normal sex life with them. On yeah one down side the day after my estrogen shot once a month I do seem to be bitchy. That's the one down side. I was actually not to nice to a friend from Susan's the other day cuz of it. Those are the only things I would really warn you to keep an eye on is the mood swings and right after srs pain. And if course the guys who only think about one thing. Two if you count video games   8)

Quote from: Shantel on March 21, 2013, 04:03:48 PM
That was one of the thoughts that haunted me and came to a head immediately following my SRS pre-op consultation, that and I am married. Plus I've never been remotely interested in getting it on with a guy so I hit the wall with a WTF moment and finally came to terms with the plumbing that I was stuck with post orchiectomy.

Well, I kind of know that I'm a straight woman or bi at least. Although at the moment I think I'm too confused to think or assess my sexual orientation properly.

Anyways, I just feel that I wont find anybody anymore to live with me who might enjoy what is between my legs. I certainly don't enjoy the current thing at all and I somehow suspect, that I would not enjoy the other end of the spectrum either. Sounds strange huh?

Perhaps hrt will change the view that I have towards sex, sexuality and whether I like it or not and whether or not I feel, that somebody might like me in the future. I don't know, time will tell. So confusing  :-\

Quote from: Henna on March 22, 2013, 06:07:07 AM
Perhaps hrt will change the view that I have towards sex, sexuality and whether I like it or not and whether or not I feel, that somebody might like me in the future. I don't know, time will tell. So confusing  :-\

Even before HRT, thinking of myself as a woman has changed my sexuality. Whereas before, the idea of sex with a man was gross, now the thought of strength and hardness against my soft body now seems more ... right. Thoughts of SRS have also changed my thinking. I think if I end up with a vagina, I'll want to use it for the purpose for which it was intended.

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 22, 2013, 08:27:00 AM
Whereas before, the idea of sex with a man was gross, now the thought of strength and hardness against my soft body now seems more ... right. Thoughts of SRS have also changed my thinking. I think if I end up with a vagina, I'll want to use it for the purpose for which it was intended.

That's a good example of heteronormative thinking  🙂

Quote from: Dahlia on March 22, 2013, 09:02:17 AM
That's a good example of heteronormative thinking  :)

Ouch!

Quote from: Kuan Yin on March 22, 2013, 03:13:46 AM
Kia Ora Chris,

The sad fact is, some need to have the surgery first in order to realise their mistake...

I'm a strong advocate for the "Real Life Experience" that is, one should get comfortable in their preferred gender role...Run the social gauntlet for a year or three, see how they cope...If they are "TOTALLY" comfortable and confident in their 'new' skin...Then go for it...

I think someone could have a successful RLE and be happy with their new gender, but still be unhappy about having the surgery. It could end up being that they don't like the appearance, that the dilation (MtF) becomes too much of a chore, that they cannot find sexual release (self-induced or partner-assisted), or that changing their once familiar genitals is too much to handle. A lot of that you could never know about until you have the surgery, but I guess they are some of the "what ifs" we have to take into consideration before having the surgery.

Quote from: Glitterfly on August 28, 2013, 02:07:13 AM
May I offer a different opinion?

How can you not be sure? This is what I wonder... From the moment I started living full time, I knew. Over the many years i have never, ever, not for one second thought that I would not eventually get the surgery. The thought of wanting to keep my downstairs the way it is now has honestly not even crossed my mind. My only doubts are about the choice of surgeon (is he really the right one? is he? is he? but my second choice is also good...) but that's it. Even if something went cosmetically wrong it could always be fixed (as long as your first surgery isn't done by a butcher) and money is just money, that's all you need to get a revision. I was never comfortable in the wrong gender I lived before starting to live full time and I have never had a single doubt about going back ever since (and it was more than just a couple of years ago).

How can you not know? I'm not talking about cross dressers or androgynous people or gender fluid people. If you truly are sure you are a female, how can you not be sure you want the surgery? It's like not being sure whether you're hungry or want to starve to death (not to say that non-ops choose to starve to death... I just meant that's something you can't really be unsure about!)

Am I alone in having being 100% sure I want the surgery every second of every hour of every day of every week of several years? Is it really normal to doubt wanting to get the surgery done or maybe regretting it later even when you know you're really in the wrong body and you're really the different gender than the body you're in? What makes one so attached to their physical body as it is before the surgery, even if it's wrong, full of stuff that doesn't belong there and doesn't feel right? I am not trying to say 'everyone should get surgery' rather I'm asking 'how is wanting surgery or not wanting surgery not black-and-white/obvious?'

Kia Ora G,

You make some good points...

However just because a pre op M2F person may have always felt uncomfortable with their penis, this is no 100% guarantee they are going to feel any better without it (replaced by a neo-vagina) , the future is unknowable...

And because trans-people come in all shapes and forms of gender non-conforming, where (due to societal pressures) confusion and doubt are common place-people quite often make mistakes when under pressure...Where the irrational replaces rational thoughts...

Metta Zenda 🙂

Well it has been 39.5 years since SRS and I think I will know for sure in another 20 or 30 years  ;D

Seriously, pre-SRS, I wasn't going to survive much longer and RLE wasn't enough. Surgery came just in time to save my life. Life after SRS was sometimes pretty rough, just like other women, but it was always better then before.

When I went for SRS, it was with total conviction to make life work and do the best with what I had.

"De-transitioning" was never an option. I didn't pass as a guy back then and I sure as heck couldn't now.

Kia Ora,

@ N J
In your 'particular' case, the chances of you detransitioning would only happen when hell freezes over 😉 ;D

@ G

As the old saying goes "Different Strokes For Different Folks !" in your particular case you may well find true contentment once the 'foreign body' is removed and you're able to live full time in your desired gender(I'm presuming you're not full time yet-my apologies if you are)...

Sadly there are some cases where trans-people have detransitioned after 'successfully' living in their desired gender role (surgery and all) for many years...

One case comes to mind, a documentary I saw a few years back of an English 'guy' who fully transitioned back in the early 80s (had the whole works too) I use the pronoun "he" because he no longer see himself as female...He (as a she) was in a loving relationship with a man for quite a few years, every thing was sweet, a job, house, etc etc (for around 20 odd years)...But then the love of his life got ill and died and his world came crushing down around him,he started questioning his identity like was s/he really 'transsexual'...

Sadly (as is the case for many) not all his family supported his transition and his brother (who had disowned him) said if he starts to live as a man again, he would be welcomed back into the family with open arms, an offer he couldn't refuse...

At one stage in his life he was 'convinced' he was a she and spent 20 odd successful years as such...

Again I say this thread is not meant to scare people, just to make them think long and hard about having irreversible surgery...

If a person think it's the right thing to do for them to do, then so be it, I wish them all the best and a happy life in their preferred gender...

As Martin Luther King once said "I have a dream !" Well I hope all the readers dreams come true...

Metta Zenda :)

 

Quote from: Glitterfly on August 29, 2013, 04:30:07 AM
Kuan Yin,

In your example case I read inability to accept the loss of a loved one that lead to a psychological breakdown/severe vulnerability that left the person wide open to manipulation and emotional blackmail; he came to the conclusion that 'gaining' a family would be more valuable than living alone after losing a loved one. I read a very cruel story and an incredibly cruel and ruthless family. I cannot see a transsexual that was really a transsexual and transitioned for the right reasons ever de-transitioning unless they were brainwashed (like I conclude happened in your example) however I'm willing to keep an open mind to the possibility that i'm wrong~

I'm not offended by your assumption but it is wrong! I have lived full-time for years now! Had jobs as well after going full-time 🙂 I'm fortunate in that I can fully pass even before 'the works', it's only going to get better after hrt and surgeries :)

"I wish them all the best and a happy life in their preferred gender..."

We can both agree on this and wish this on everyone :)

Kia Ora G,

It sounds like you have already ironed out any bumps in the road (having comfortably assimilated into society as your preferred gender) and by having genital surgery this will seal the deal...

Sadly it would seem there are some trans-women who fail/neglect to iron out the bumps, often thinking surgery will "fix it" but after surgery the bumps continue to appear and instead of a better quality of life, it turns into a nightmare...

Even if a post op person does not quite blend into society 'physically' they can and quite often do have a better quality of life than before(especially in an environment where people are more liberal and accepting-the world is gradually changing)...

These trans-women have mentally conditioned themselves during the RLE period (developed coping mechanisms) to help them over the rough spots...For example developing the attitude "I'm comfortable in my skin and if you are not comfortable with me...That's your problem ! I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it!"  :eusa_whistle:

Your journey is similar to my own, I lived comfortably (as my preferred gender+HRT) for around four and half years as a non-op (at the time thinking that surgery of any kind was out of my reach)... Then the opportunity presented itself, and I was fortunate to be selected for government funded surgery...Originally I just wanted 'it'(testicles and penis) removed so I didn't have to continue to take testosterone blockers, but ended up getting the whole works( functioning neo vagina) for free...

May your 'surgical' dreams come true Glitterfly...

Metta Zenda 🙂

Quote from: Glitterfly on August 29, 2013, 03:13:29 PM
Kuan Yin,

thank you for helping me see how the surgery might not make things better even for someone that truly is a transsexual. 🙂 It's too easy to lose sight of the infinitely different situations people can be in when you're so used to your own... I understand and agree with what you said about 'ironing out the bumps' beforehand~ if you have unresolved issues before surgery then of course they won't be magically gone after the surgery. I'm really glad you ended up getting the surgery for free! For me there are no obstacles other than time (there has to be enough time between starting hrt and getting the surgery) and apprehensions about the selection of the correct surgeons~ (it gets especially complicated and leads to a huge amount of second-guessing if you're having more than one surgery but with dedicating enough time to research you can somehow navigate through it... and hope you didn't make a mistake in your selection and hope you don't end up a botched surgery statistic (at least one that can't be corrected))

So thank you for your wishes, may they come true without complications indeed~ and may your dreams come true as well, no matter what they might be ^^

Kia Ora Glitterfly,

Thanks...For the most part they have...
Remember when it comes to worry/anxiety over surgeons and procedures...

What's the worst thing that could happen ? And if it does, what can you do about it ? If you can do something about it, then don't worry, and if you can't do something about it why worry ?

"If you fear you shall suffer-You 'already' suffer what you fear !"

Metta Zenda 🙂

I will try to explain those regrets from my point of view. I have met many transsexuals, who in my opinion are just feminine gay guys who try to adapt in the society via sex change. Usually those guys are very flemboyish, who have never been accepted in the society as men, and because of those reasons they decide to transition and then become women. Very few will complete the transition, and later if they don't succeed to pass and to integrate in the society as women they regret transitioning and then they want to go back. I call this pseudo transsexuality. A real transsexual has an inborn gender dysphoria. It is not caused by social factors but by biological, inborn factors. Also transsexuals who lose their social position and families after transitioning are good candidates to regret the sex change, even though I believe that those regrets are easily treatable with psychotherapy. Also transsexuals who get religious are possible candidates to regret sex change, especially if they are mislead to understand that transsexuality and sex change are sins. I don't think a real transsexual, born in the wrong body, will ever regret surgically modifying the body from wrong to right.   

Kia Ora,

Ah the complexity of "knowing or not knowing for sure"...

Some trans-women start off 'thinking they are gay, (some even live a gay lifestyle for a while)

And some gay men end up thinking they are trans and "walk on the wild side for a while"

But who is to say what's really going on inside their heads ? The mind can be a trickster - a master(Or mistress) of deceit...

Metta Zenda 🙂