Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Ok, I know this may be a tad superficial as a thread, but it is something thats been bugging me a lot lately.

I'm currently on the verge of transitioning, and one of the major factors that is holding me back is passability. I know most of you will say that "passing doesnt matter necessarily", but it does matter a lot to me, because I want to be seen as a woman.

Currently, whenever I go out presenting as female, it takes me a while to do my makeup convincingly, but I can get my face to look female. My hair is pretty thick but its short, and it's receded very slightly at the temples so I usually wear a good quality wig. I'm about 5'8 so I don't look too tall.

Usually in public I pass really well, especially at night whens its darker. My main give aways have to be my voice, my shoulders, and my feet.

My feet aren't massive they're about a size 8, but its awkward finding girl shoes in that size. My shoulders aren't overly broad but i'm not exactly a petite... they just look a bit big for a girl.

Ok i'm rambling, basically I look like a girl if I dress enough and use enough makeup but it takes a lot of effort to pass fully.

My question is, did hormones effect any of you hugely in terms of appearance? Or was it more subtle effects?

I'm young, so would that be a good time to start HRT or have I missed the boat by not starting before puberty?

Does HRT alter facial structure at all? I'm guessing shoulders and feet i'm stuck with.

Does HRT effect body hair density at all?

Thanks to any answers!

Love

Ruby

I'm about 2 and a half months in and it hasn't done a thing for me, but it's early.

To me it's not tied to my transition. I'm going to transition whatever my passability. My transition isn't about passing, it's about showing the world who I am. If I pass, great. If not, doesn't make me less a woman.

It helped mine greatly. It took a few years for a lot to show, but the other aspects that aren't so visible, but felt, were very helpful as well. Less headaches, smoothed out my moods and just generally better feeling.

Quote from: ConfusedGirlRuby on March 27, 2013, 07:36:32 AM
Ok, I know this may be a tad superficial as a thread, but it is something thats been bugging me a lot lately.

I'm currently on the verge of transitioning, and one of the major factors that is holding me back is passability. I know most of you will say that "passing doesnt matter necessarily", but it does matter a lot to me, because I want to be seen as a woman.

Currently, whenever I go out presenting as female, it takes me a while to do my makeup convincingly, but I can get my face to look female. My hair is pretty thick but its short, and it's receded very slightly at the temples so I usually wear a good quality wig. I'm about 5'8 so I don't look too tall.

Usually in public I pass really well, especially at night whens its darker. My main give aways have to be my voice, my shoulders, and my feet.
I'm QUITE sure your feet aren't a giveaway. No one but you cares much about your feet. Broad shoulders suck, but they're in no way a real obstacle to passing easily, unless it's an especially pronounced case. Voice, you can work on it. Start as early as possible though, because it takes effort and time. If you're desperate, there,s always surgery (see Yeson clinic in Seoul), but most people don't need it if they put their heart to it.

My feet aren't massive they're about a size 8, but its awkward finding girl shoes in that size. My shoulders aren't overly broad but i'm not exactly a petite... they just look a bit big for a girl.
What? You mean, American size 8? That's totally average for a woman, you know.
Ok i'm rambling, basically I look like a girl if I dress enough and use enough makeup but it takes a lot of effort to pass fully.

My question is, did hormones effect any of you hugely in terms of appearance? Or was it more subtle effects?
Uhm, can't answer yet. I may be one year in, but my dose is way too low, so it's almost as though I'd been only on cyproterone for a year. :/ But honestly, while it varies greatly from person to person, people starting below, say, 25 years old, generally have very satisfying effects.
I'm young, so would that be a good time to start HRT or have I missed the boat by not starting before puberty?
Starting before puberty is over is an ideal, not a necessity. There are extremely stunning transitions from people as old as 30 or even more.
Does HRT alter facial structure at all? I'm guessing shoulders and feet i'm stuck with.
Your face will change in appearance. Of course your bones won't change much if at all, but the way fat deposits in your face will make a surprisingly big difference. In many people, for example, the "split chin" disappears, filled in by fat. And cheeks get rounder and higher. Shoulders will reduce slightly from muscle mass loss, but bones of course, not really. Feet MIGHT change. Don't expect it though. It's an unexplained effect that some people have.
Does HRT effect body hair density at all?
Yes. In the VAST majority of people, given sufficiently efficient androgen suppression (killing the testosterone), there's a very noticeable difference in body hair. But for most people, it's not quite enough on its own, and not everywhere. If you're hairy everywhere right now, unless you get really lucky, chances are you'll have to take care of it yourself. Waxing, shaving, laser, electrolysis, whatever else... your choice.
Thanks to any answers!

Love

Ruby

I've been extremely fortunate. I'm on a very low dose of estrogen only, but saw very fast and relatively dramatic changes - I ended up moving up the date I went "full time" at work because by four months in it was getting impossible to hide my breasts or facial changes. (I was a C cup already at that point, which was VERY unexpected, and people were speculating about why my face looked so much different.) I haven't been misgendered since about three months on HRT, which I think is partly just that there were enough "female cues" that people overlooked the rest. The changes *were* subtle, but it all added up; these days, I don't wear makeup and rarely bother to dress up, and am still consistently read as female. I'm also the same height as you, which may help, I dunno.

My feet dropped a shoe size and a half, my shoulders are now narrower than my hips, and body hair is finer and lighter except on my legs (which plenty of women battle with anyway).

By now, three years later, the changes have slowed, and I can honestly say I haven't seen much fat redistribution except to the butt and boobs, so that's probably not going to happen.

I started at age 32, btw. I hope this helps. :)

B cup! 39-34-43...so, yeah, face is rounder, skin lighter and drier, legs rounder, pouch under the navel has begun to form, hair has disapeared from arms, legs, chest, and upper pubis (true that never had much), hairs in the face is almost gone, and the one that remains is very fine...No hair loss, and some regrow in the front :)

18 month in HRT

Because HRT is a total mileage may vary thing you will not know, until you know.

HRT did help me alot, but it did not make me instantly passable. Deportment, confidance, vocabulary, and poise are the most important ingrediants.

I have a friend who has more male markers than many men. She is built like a linebacker and has a manly jaw etc...and she hasn't been on HRT for a number of years.
yet...
When she opens her mouth and talks she instantly dispells any thought she may be trans. (which she is) Her entire aura and energy drips female, her movements and eyes say 'I am a woman'. There is no doubt that she is a woman. Her male features, while they individualy scream out her male biology, they blend togather and leave one with a female impression.

So I would work on your social presentation more and worry about HRT less. By all means get on HRT as it will help, but it is not the be all end all of transition.

honestly, like most have said ymmv. personally I wasn't sure, and I didn't expect splendid results but HRT has helped me some. the biggest department was my emotional well being is stable and im enjoying life.

So YMMV of course.

But I remember telling my GT all those years ago that no one would ever buy me as a woman because I was a terribly hirsute linebacker type person and she said to relax and see what happened and once I started hrt and began erasing the hair (laser, electro and a good epilator are your friends), I began to see the woman there. It took me a year into hrt and everything else before I dared venture out into a restaurant and then I realized that I could be the person I am.

It's a process and it's not magic. It takes work and time and it can hurt a lot. But it was worth it for me. I knew it would be with almost no doubt at first and none within a short time after.

Is it worth it for you? 

N.J.

Thanks to every girl that replied.

I'm starting back HRT soon & surely this will be the last time I ever "start" again. From HRT years ago I felt changes quickly, nipples were sore, less male sex drive, some funny hot flashes but overall a very nice calming mental effect. It seemed to help change myself both mentally & physically. I was just taking large doses of prescribed E, no T blockers.

As we all know from a teenage girls breast development it just takes time to change a human body, grow breasts, hips, etc....

Thanks again.

Yes. Pretty much, my entire passability (what little there is,) is owed to HRT. Before starting HRT, my facial structure REALLY looked male. I had a huge-looking chin, a heavy brow, and my face seemed to pinch together when I smiled. I HATED it. Just over two months in, the muscularity of my face has greatly diminished. My skin texture has become much softer, the overall look became smoother and rounder, the muscularity greatly diminished, and for some reason my eyes started looking more open. Plus the loss of body hair, and how my arms and legs and chest actually look smooth now, instead of covered in speckled stubble all the time, has helped as well. Plus for some reason it has REALLY changed the shape of my legs. They look more conical now rather than boxy. And this is after only about 2.5 months of it.

I didn't dress as a girl EVER before HRT, so I don't really have a pre-HRT experience to go off of, but I have a sneaking suspicion that had I tried back then, I wouldn't have had a snowball's chance in hell of passing, while now I think I actually look half decent, although I admittedly do still have a LONG way to go.

Now, a big part of this is because I've been dieting like an absolute fiend, so losing 30 lbs in addition to the estrogenic goodies probably made my changes much more significant, but again, as everyone else has said, your mileage will vary. Having watched many Youtube "before and after" videos, there are SO many people who I would never have thought even had a chance of passing because of their bone structure, who shockingly not only passed after HRT, but looked downright gorgeous! So pretty much, nothing is set in stone. Some do indeed barely change, while others change so much that you can't even recognize them afterward.

Carrie & others, thank you.

Did anyone have an orcie first to just stop any more T? I'm not sure however I was close to this step a few years ago & did not complete the surgery but now for me it seems the only real first step with HRT.

Any thoughts, advise?

I had an orchi. Happy as can be about it too.

Depends on how well pills are suppressing your testosterone. If you're already at almost nothing like me, an orchi has no advantage other than less pills to take.

(Like A, I never even considered an orchi, because estrogen alone had my T in the middle of the female range. As I've said elsewhere, I haven't even changed my [low] dose post-op, so it's unlikely that an orchi would have done anything for me except cost money I'd rather have saved for GRS.)

without going into too much detail my co worker looked at me and said "there is no more man in that body anymore" in short my hips, how tight I can keep my body and my chest which was all hormones.

My face is significantly different as well~ Though electrolysis/laser is the biggest driving factor in a feminine face as your skin gets thinner, softer more lady like.

Significant but subtle, but so many subtle changes makes to one huge difference.

After over 1 year now of fairly high doses of "E" as well as Spiro and Progesterone, I am finally starting to see significant changes to my body. I am an older transitioner and as many of you have read, the effects take longer and are not nearly as profound on us as they are on younger people (at least it is true for me).

My significant other just yesterday told me that she considered me to be an 7 out of 10 finally on the scale of looking like a normal woman, without makeup.

Cheers ~ Berti

its to the point where by then end of the day working in my tbig rig that my stubble is slightly in and my make up is worn off a lot i still get ma'amed so yeah they helped.

I am about one month into HRT and consider it essential to transition.  What has surprised me is that the most emotional and most profound personal changes came after I finally accepted myself as transgendered and started full time presentation as more feminine.  This was well before HRT and then that I felt the real flood gates open.  I literally felt very profound brain and body changes.  I was more emotional and certain about my direction.  After the first week on HRT I felt sort of flat and listless with a bit of anticlimax.  I had so looked forward to this and then it was just here.  Now, about a month in, I feel very sensitive changes in my breasts, face, hair and more that are features I so want and yet must adapt to in real time.  Clothes are a temporary fit.  My emotional makeup is now harder to describe.  I recall those persistent "low T" advertisements on US TV and say yes, this is much more than a subtle change. 
I do not miss a libido that stressed my relationships in a manipulative fashion.  I do welcome the changes that give me a calm, more serene and sensitive outlook.  My body IS also changing and I love it!

I strongly recommend HRT as an important tool in bringing me home.

Tessa James

Quote from: Tessa James on April 06, 2013, 12:45:21 PM
I am about one month into HRT and consider it essential to transition.  What has surprised me is that the most emotional and most profound personal changes came after I finally accepted myself as transgendered and started full time presentation as more feminine.  This was well before HRT and then that I felt the real flood gates open.  I literally felt very profound brain and body changes.  I was more emotional and certain about my direction.  After the first week on HRT I felt sort of flat and listless with a bit of anticlimax.  I had so looked forward to this and then it was just here.  Now, about a month in, I feel very sensitive changes in my breasts, face, hair and more that are features I so want and yet must adapt to in real time.  Clothes are a temporary fit.  My emotional makeup is now harder to describe.  I recall those persistent "low T" advertisements on US TV and say yes, this is much more than a subtle change. 
I do not miss a libido that stressed my relationships in a manipulative fashion.  I do welcome the changes that give me a calm, more serene and sensitive outlook.  My body IS also changing and I love it!

I strongly recommend HRT as an important tool in bringing me home.

Tessa James

i agree with this, you can do all you want with hrt but if you dont have confidence and acceptance hrt wont matter. its with the bathroom, most women go in their with out thinking am i sussposed to be here but if you feel nervous or edgy or confused your gonna get clocked.

I think your main issue isn't about hrt but just passing in general. The thing is not to rush it, you don;t have to be out there everyday proving your a woman spending hours in the bathroom and as a few have pointed out things get a lot easier as your combined efforts pay off, including(not just) HRT. Hrt isn't a magic bullet and some people get much more out of it than others, everyone's different but don't rely on it as some sort of solution to passing because you are setting yourself up for a fall. Take your time, there is no rush, a girl take years to learn how to be a woman and so will you!

Depressingly enough Hrt has done very little for me. I still totally look like a guy with slight gyno. :'(

Hmmm, reading all of that made me feel like a bit of a veteran... I started HRT in summer 2008, a few months before I hit age  51, and continued stop-go until Sept 2010. It always quickly generated a feeling of interieur calm . However,  as I also quickly started seeing breast growth and suffered from a sharp fall off in my physical capacities (mostly due to Spironolactone) that spooked me at first. I was still  big into sport at the time and with the sort of tight  clothes used for my favorite sport , those budding breasts were immediately very visible.
It is worth noting that when I stopped, after 3 - 4 months each time, everything was pretty well totally reversible.
Since Sept 2010, I have been on HRT fulltime with no interruptions and I already know there will be no going back. Actually, at this stage even if I wanted to (I don't) ,  it would probably be a problem as, at minimum,I would need to take testosterone to replace what my body no longer produces. Why? Because, to avoid osteoporosis and maybe other health issues, your body needs a sex hormone, whether it be oestrogen or testosterone.

The effects of my HRT have been very visible. My agressivity and libido have dropped off sharply (but not entirely.. :)) and, last time I checked, June 2012, my testosterone level was low even by cis female standards. I am also far more emotive and not nearly as big into sport. I still do enough to stay slim and in shape but no longer push myself nearly as hard as I used to. The drive is just not there any more. I have also completely lost interest in some quite masculine sports that I used to enjoy watching. It may just be psychological as I assume my female identity more fully all the time, but the fall  off in  interest sort of sneaked up on me gradually  without me even noticing and was definitely not a deliberate choice.

On the physical side, my skin texture has changed quite dramatically, as smooth as any cis female today. Starting from a fairly low density, I also lost all of my body hair and I have had pretty good breast growth, cup size A-B, which I find quite amazing at my age. There has also been some very visble fat redistribution, away from my waist with considerable more on the inside of my thighs.

The real differences only started to show after a year or so and I get the clear impression that I am still changing, especially my breasts which continue to fill out little by little.

My face has also changed a lot but since I also did FFS, apart from the change in skin tone, I really can't say what results from FFS and what results from HRT. The really big changes ie. in bone structure, are obviously from FFS.

A little story from today to finish off with. I still present male at work but a couple of people I trust are aware of my situation. One of these people told me this morning that back in February, during a meeting we were both at, another  one of our colleagues whispered to him that he was sure that "I was a woman".  My friend didn't know about my story at the time and said no, it couldn't be possible. However the other guy insisted but, unable to imagine the truth, he actually thought I was woman posing as a man! Now that was music to my ears.. :)
Hope that helps.
Donna

very much so least I think so. Note I didn't intend to transition unless I was passable, Hormones were for my mental well begin at first a pragmatic solution to my gender dysphoria, I had a career I wanted to pursue and I was at uni at the time and I didn't want an extremely unusual appearance begin a distraction to my long term goals.

Before.
"But short hair would really suit you. Why don't you see you've got potential? You could be a really handsome man"
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv63%2FDarkphantom%2F188881_109858632427096_100002088781883_92259_4235183_n.jpg&hash=ee15b1241a03a48bc3aba751db752dde09e3dab1)
---------- 3 months HRT
I was still presenting as a male at the time but people were starting to notice something was up, "Ooh you look so pale and skinny, do you have the flu?"
"Hmm... Do I have boobs?"

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv63%2FDarkphantom%2F200741_109858589093767_100002088781883_92256_4151881_n_zpsaf10e833.jpg&hash=53cd69ba19f55c9dc11370f111befca274fb2faf)
-------- 6 Months HRT
The cat got out of the bag so to speak. In public things became difficult people literally were clueless about my gender I still said I was male tentatively I got the names in public and everything. Little by little I knew my as a "male" (Or least regarded as such) was coming to an end. I began to make preparations (Retraining my voice) but I was still scared about whether I'd turn out to be passable or not.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv63%2FDarkphantom%2F197418_109858569093769_100002088781883_92254_7705791_n_zps71ab4e76.jpg&hash=02c77c853105eede52c7cb75ff4603a1a7dad366)

------------9 Months HRT
Finally now living as a girl. It had become hard for me to live as a male, I just didn't look the part. My voice was now convincingly female, It was odd at first those same sleezy pigs who spat at me 3 months prior now fancied me.

I was a girl not a woman yet, cute Naiive and new to everything some took advantage and I got into some extremely dangerous situations.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv63%2FDarkphantom%2Fnewhair2.jpg&hash=9a71da2e97b04fbea6d4309ab9742573a185a75e)


----------12 Months HRT
Most of my changes now complete it was a matter of others really coming to terms with what I was now. And gaining experience and becoming a woman.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv63%2FDarkphantom%2F393340_223583747721250_1630929k439_n_zps5dda8c0a.jpg&hash=812e65ac1c6b6dc4866a317ceb2c4b0e927e8525)


Now... 3.5 Years later...
The strange is humdrum, I'm a scientist just as I always wanted, My appearance wasn't a distraction, knew at all until I told them... I was lucky but I also fought damn hard I have no regrets about any of my choices. I took my own path.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv63%2FDarkphantom%2FPhoto0094_zps5eb3d09c.jpg&hash=081987760b00e8099c315d535de23f35259143ae)

Works like magic on me or has and 100% positive results and fast! Feels great as I bleed through from the inside out with pure femininity wazoo yahoo !

Quote from: pebbles on April 19, 2013, 01:36:31 PM
very much so least I think so.

Agree with that! That looks like a magic! :icon_inyourface:

Quote from: Donna Elvira on April 15, 2013, 02:20:33 PM
Hmmm, reading all of that made me feel like a bit of a veteran... I started HRT in summer 2008, a few months before I hit age  51, and continued stop-go until Sept 2010. It always quickly generated a feeling of interieur calm . However,  as I also quickly started seeing breast growth and suffered from a sharp fall off in my physical capacities (mostly due to Spironolactone) that spooked me at first. I was still  big into sport at the time and with the sort of tight  clothes used for my favorite sport , those budding breasts were immediately very visible.
It is worth noting that when I stopped, after 3 - 4 months each time, everything was pretty well totally reversible.
Since Sept 2010, I have been on HRT fulltime with no interruptions and I already know there will be no going back. Actually, at this stage even if I wanted to (I don't) ,  it would probably be a problem as, at minimum,I would need to take testosterone to replace what my body no longer produces. Why? Because, to avoid osteoporosis and maybe other health issues, your body needs a sex hormone, whether it be oestrogen or testosterone.

The effects of my HRT have been very visible. My agressivity and libido have dropped off sharply (but not entirely.. :)) and, last time I checked, June 2012, my testosterone level was low even by cis female standards. I am also far more emotive and not nearly as big into sport. I still do enough to stay slim and in shape but no longer push myself nearly as hard as I used to. The drive is just not there any more. I have also completely lost interest in some quite masculine sports that I used to enjoy watching. It may just be psychological as I assume my female identity more fully all the time, but the fall  off in  interest sort of sneaked up on me gradually  without me even noticing and was definitely not a deliberate choice.

On the physical side, my skin texture has changed quite dramatically, as smooth as any cis female today. Starting from a fairly low density, I also lost all of my body hair and I have had pretty good breast growth, cup size A-B, which I find quite amazing at my age. There has also been some very visble fat redistribution, away from my waist with considerable more on the inside of my thighs.

The real differences only started to show after a year or so and I get the clear impression that I am still changing, especially my breasts which continue to fill out little by little.

My face has also changed a lot but since I also did FFS, apart from the change in skin tone, I really can't say what results from FFS and what results from HRT. The really big changes ie. in bone structure, are obviously from FFS.

A little story from today to finish off with. I still present male at work but a couple of people I trust are aware of my situation. One of these people told me this morning that back in February, during a meeting we were both at, another  one of our colleagues whispered to him that he was sure that "I was a woman".  My friend didn't know about my story at the time and said no, it couldn't be possible. However the other guy insisted but, unable to imagine the truth, he actually thought I was woman posing as a man! Now that was music to my ears.. :)
Hope that helps.
Donna

Donna, what a nice life story. Love you girl friend. 

HRT is absolutely necessary to physically become female. After being off HRT for several years & just resuming I already feel great, so relaxed & confident. I'm sure will be taking E for the rest of my life.

I think it depends on when you start, and your genes. If it wasnt for hrt, i wouldnt have turned out the way i did. I would have had a male puberty, but since I started at 11 (cyproterone), and estrogen when I turned 12, I had an entirely female puberty.

Thanks to the ppl that made hrt possible, its amazing.

But I have no idea how long its supposed to take to feminize a face if youre older, not long I would imagine?
Im here cuz of a friend I met who is a mtf, I have never known another mtf before.

I think you raised an interesting question

Well, it all depends when do you starts taking hormones. The effects are more significant if you starts at 16/18 because the body is young and the male features aren't full developed. Anyway, they helped a lot my trasition. My face get fuller and my chin has reducted a little bit, my hair now are thicker, all my muscles are pretty gone, so my shoulders are smaller, also as my feet and my arms. I get a b cup in 8 months and my hips and legs got bigger in 1 year. Also my skin now is more silky and my body hair are gone. But you have to consider that, before HRT, my testosterone's levels were really low. I had 2 in a scale from 1 to 12. In fact i never had facial hair exept for the chin. I guess it all depends on the body and how it react to HRT.

Wish you the best!!!

xoxo
Julia

Hailey I just want to say you look amazing and it is so very good to hear about young people like you who had the insight, courage and support to acknowledge the truth early on.   My only regret has been that I didn't start earlier in life with transition.  It is absolutely refreshing to live through this dramatic change in our culture (60+ years for me) that now better accepts that we are free to be who we truly are! 

For Freedom of Expression

Quote from: ConfusedGirlRuby on March 27, 2013, 07:36:32 AM
Ok, I know this may be a tad superficial as a thread, but it is something thats been bugging me a lot lately.

I'm currently on the verge of transitioning, and one of the major factors that is holding me back is passability. I know most of you will say that "passing doesnt matter necessarily", but it does matter a lot to me, because I want to be seen as a woman.

Currently, whenever I go out presenting as female, it takes me a while to do my makeup convincingly, but I can get my face to look female. My hair is pretty thick but its short, and it's receded very slightly at the temples so I usually wear a good quality wig. I'm about 5'8 so I don't look too tall.

Usually in public I pass really well, especially at night whens its darker. My main give aways have to be my voice, my shoulders, and my feet.

My feet aren't massive they're about a size 8, but its awkward finding girl shoes in that size. My shoulders aren't overly broad but i'm not exactly a petite... they just look a bit big for a girl.

Ok i'm rambling, basically I look like a girl if I dress enough and use enough makeup but it takes a lot of effort to pass fully.

My question is, did hormones effect any of you hugely in terms of appearance? Or was it more subtle effects?

I'm young, so would that be a good time to start HRT or have I missed the boat by not starting before puberty?

Does HRT alter facial structure at all? I'm guessing shoulders and feet i'm stuck with.

Does HRT effect body hair density at all?

Thanks to any answers!

Love

Ruby

Kia Ora CGR,

When it comes to HRT YMMV !

::) This according to our friend wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormone_replacement_therapy_(male-to-female)#Bone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormone_replacement_therapy_(male-to-female)#Bone)

What HRT cannot change...

HRT cannot reverse bone changes that have already been established by puberty. Consequently, total height, the length of the arms, legs, hands, and feet, and the width/size of the shoulders and rib cage are all not affected by HRT. However, details of bone shape change throughout life, with bones becoming heavier and more deeply sculptured under the influence of androgens, and HRT will prevent such changes from developing any further.

The width of the hips are not affected in individuals in whom epiphyseal closure (fusion and closure of the ends of bones, which prevents any further lengthening) has taken place, an event which occurs in most people between 18 and 25 years of age. In addition, already established changes to the shape of the hips cannot be reversed by HRT whether epiphyseal closure has taken place yet or not.

Already established changes to the sculpture of the bone structure of the face are not affected by HRT, nor is the prominence of the thyroid cartilage (Adam's apple) affected. These changes may be reversed by surgery (facial feminization surgery and tracheal shave, respectively) instead.

During puberty, the voice deepens in pitch and becomes more resonant, effects which are permanent and are not affected by HRT.

Facial hair develops during puberty, and this is a change that is not significantly affected by HRT. Facial hair may be permanently removed with electrolysis or laser hair removal instead.

Metta Zenda :)

You know how long it takes cisfemales to get ready to go out?? lulz...

Much less time than me? :p

 HRT has helped my transition both significantly and insignificantly.

I started when I was seventeen, and it helped me to go full-time rather quickly. I haven't really changed all that much, though. I look a bit less hideous, but I'm still not happy with where I'm at, and I don't know if I ever will be. That's just the face - the only part of me that really changed. I can hardly qualify what I have on my chest to be breasts, for example, and I'm still lightly hairy everywhere. It's not black and thick, but it's noticeable and gross. Perhaps I'm delusional, or overly vain, or maybe I have unrealistic expectations, or I could be nuts, but that's my opinion on it all, and I have an extremely hard time believing anyone who disagrees with me.

At this point, I make a more believable male than I do a believable female. Perhaps I don't look macho-manly, but I could easily pass as a high school guy - a change of clothes would do the trick.

I suppose I'll be satisfied if/when I lose to ability to easily pass as male. Wishful thinking, but hope is essential to human life.

 Well, camera tricks, facial expressions, and a little make-up go a long way. I could probably post some pictures of me doing the guy thing, some time.

It is the "beauty" of looking androgynous.

At the very least, I don't think I look like most other 19-year-old girls in my area...

Quote from: girl you look fierce on May 08, 2013, 11:39:54 PM
Okay I guess I can kinda understand... photos DO change a lot. Idk. But sometimes I swear I look male and then I go try to prove it (I did that once and presented male one day like 6 months ago...) still got called she... using my natural voice and presenting male.

A lot of it is in your head.

I totally agree!!!!

To be honest, I'm not sure if HRT helped transition or not. I only transitioned once with HRT and didn't attempt other permutations. I did start being referred to with female pronouns by strangers in androgynous attire after a while. If that's HRT then yes.

I don't have anything to add to all those good comments, I just wanted to say that your feet really don't matter that much. I have size 10, and heck, I am -biologicall- a girl!
And when I wasn't presenting as male I never had any trouble with people thinking I'm a man or anything, even though I have a pretty big frame for a female, rather broad shoulders, etc. no one EVER said 'he' to me, for some weird magical reason.

But yeah, a lot is in your head indeed. Sometimes I start to look girly over night, lol! One day I look in the mirror and think "Aww yeah!" While the next day I just want to run and hide.
And I strongly doubt ONE night's sleep can make me suddenly look like a girl, lol!

Quote from: girl you look fierce on May 09, 2013, 08:35:32 AM
Yep definitely, I am always a little self-conscious about my size 10 feet but then remember my cis sister is size 10 too. Couldn't have avoided it no matter how I was born. Okay, so it's not the 100% ideal for a girl, but nobody is gonna look at size 10 feet and go "oh my god, your FEET are so BIG!" :P

My mom is only 5'4" (maybe 5'5") and she wears a size 10, her hands are also nearly as long as mine (and I am nearly 4" taller). She has never been single for too long & people who know we are related will always tell me how pretty they think she is, so being a size 10 is nothing horrible, but being thin and having an attractive face does go a long way,, looking at your avatar I think you have nothing to worry about!

After over 4 years I have finally made my 50th post, I am no longer a newbie!!! Yay ;D

Sorry for derailing the post.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on May 10, 2013, 10:43:19 AM
Me and my sister are both 5'5 too (@ size 10) :)

Actually 9.5 fits me best but those are hard to find :/ and strangely I think my hands are a more average size.

Funny how it works though, my mom is 5'4 and she is like size 6 or 7. Must have been my dad's fault!!

The main reason I'm ok with size 10 is it's within the cutoff that places seem to stop regularly stocking. So most places have size 10 available.

I got into the size 10 range by the skin of my teeth thank god, anything larger that is worth wearing (sans Birkenstock)is always a special order! Unfortunately I got my hands from my mother (not my father) and they are very long. She told me that her hands were a problem when she was in highschool, most of the guys she would hold hands with would always have hands the same size or smaller than her, on the bright side they are very thin!

btw your avatar pic looks a lot like Ashley Greene:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.listal.com%2Fimage%2F563625%2F600full-ashley-greene.jpg&hash=8db3a5b5fb83025649b81f21963c90a906f3d307)

Yeah your feet are actually pretty small even compared to GG's of that height. I'm 5'7" and wear a size 9/9.5 womens. I can share shoes with a handful of my closest cisfemale girlfriends that are a few inches shorter than me.

Also I used to think I had big hands, too... Until I asked my mom to hold her hands up to mine... and it turns out we both have the same size hand- yet she is 5'4". Piano hands run in the family I guess ;)

HRT has been essential for me. Reducing the size of my neck, arms, shoulders, waist, and rounding out areas like butt, thighs, and of course chest! And it's only just begun, I think. The effects to my body have been great so far. My skin is so soft on my arms/legs now that I can't even see the pores anymore. Emotionally, I feel like exactly the same person.. the only difference being that I can more easily connect with strong emotions and I can cry from happiness much easier which has been euphoric and wonderful. All these little details add up and add to my confidence. Maybe it won't be essential for you though, everyone is different!

Quote from: Jennygirl on May 11, 2013, 06:26:35 AM
Yeah your feet are actually pretty small even compared to GG's of that height. I'm 5'7" and wear a size 9/9.5 womens. I can share shoes with a handful of my closest cisfemale girlfriends that are a few inches shorter than me.

Also I used to think I had big hands, too... Until I asked my mom to hold her hands up to mine... and it turns out we both have the same size hand- yet she is 5'4". Piano hands run in the family I guess ;)

I also know several GG's that wear a sizes 9,10 or larger, I never noticed this until we went shopping together. I think many mtf's obsess about shoe size without realizing how many GG's wear similar sizes, the same applies to hand size as well, the only thing that makes hands un-passable (imo) is when they are extremely muscular and thick!

Quote from: girl you look fierce on May 12, 2013, 04:41:10 PM
Thanks lol I was always jealous of her and I wanna have my hair like hers so that is a big complement to me  :D and congrats on getting to size 10 shoes (how did you get it lower? I wish I could but have been this size for a looong time.)

Thanks, I started at almost a size 11 (I could never find a 10 1/2), I don't really know how it happened but I did lose some weight (about 20lbs), now I can easily wear a size 10, I can even wear my old male sports socks (only around the house lol) when I break in new heels, this was a trick a GG friend taught me, anyway I could have never done this before I lost weight/started HRT.

QuoteUsually in public I pass really well, especially at night whens its darker. My main give aways have to be my voice, my shoulders, and my feet.

I was very worried about my voice but I found a Youtube video with wonderful advice and my voice was passing with effort in days and a month later it was natural. I can't find the video but basically she explained her technique was to raise her voice as high as she could. Fyi, do this in private lol it can be embarrassing. First, go like as high as you can with your voice. Once you can't go any higher, lower it until it falls into a passing range. It helps if you use a voice recorder – most smart phones have a recorder app. Practice daily. Find the range, hold it and talk to yourself in it. I couldn't believe how quickly this worked. It was incredible.
With shoulders, HRT will help reduce the bulkiness. My shoulders looked broad until I realized 1. I had a lot of muscle on them and 2. I had poor posture. Pulling my shoulders up and back seriously made them very noticeably smaller. After 8 months on HRT the bulkiness is pretty well gone.
Feet will shrink possibly. Not the actual bones, but fat or muscle, whatever it is down there, I've noticed shrunk a looooot. My girlfriend noticed that both my hands and feet look much smaller. I'm down about a shoe size but I think that has more to do with a decrease in width rather than length. I know that doesn't sound like it would affect the shoe size that much but it has.

Bottom line though, we all get super self-conscious but strangers are rarely, if ever, going to actually analyze the size of your feet. 99% of the people you meet wouldn't notice feet or shoulders.

QuoteMy question is, did hormones effect any of you hugely in terms of appearance? Or was it more subtle effects?

Hormones have had a ton of effect but very slowly. Don't expect to start HRT and a month later look like a different person. I'd say months 1-5 very little changed other than nipples became sensitive and it was obvious to the touch that little buds were developing underneath them. 6-7 thinks really started picking up and I'd say I've noticed a huge difference in the last month from 7-8. I'm 8 months in now and I pass pretty well.

QuoteI'm young, so would that be a good time to start HRT or have I missed the boat by not starting before puberty?

Hardly anyone is fortunate enough to start that young. The younger you are the better. I believe 25 and under usually have the best results from HRT. After all, puberty was only a few years ago for us.

QuoteDoes HRT alter facial structure at all? I'm guessing shoulders and feet i'm stuck with.

Answered above about shoulders and feet. It changes the distribution of fat and muscle on face. My face changed significantly but again, very slowly overtime. Also the skin becomes much smoother which also helps tremendously.

QuoteDoes HRT effect body hair density at all?

I haven't had as much luck here as I had hoped for. I was never hairy to begin with but the little bit of hair I had hasn't changed. It definitely grows slower but is mostly just as dark and dense as before.

About sizes... Recently I noticed that a LOT of my previous clothing looks awkward on me (too big). I have been on blockers only, but I have done quite a crazy workout for the previous 2 months. So yesterday I was wondering why with dropping down for one size (around 48 now, maybe even 46), all sleeves are getting longer as well. I blamed my shoulders and yes, they are down from 18' to 17'!