Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Kia Ora

"When we die, do we awake from the daydream that we call life, into true reality ?—or at least into a truer dream ?"

Are we just dreaming ?

Are you in my dream ?

Or am I in yours ?

Sweet dreams :icon_sleep:



Metta Zenda :)

Maybe we are all just characters in someone's hologram program.

Let's see.

Quote from: Ms. OBrien CVT on March 28, 2013, 11:13:08 PM
Maybe we are all just characters in someone's hologram program.

Let's see.

Computer, End Program.

Kia Ora Ms O,

Is that like the Matrix...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqxwtEdxOCw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqxwtEdxOCw)

Metta Zenda :)

My friend, who is a butterfly, said she used to be a human being but then she learned active dreaming, and no longer has those nightmares.

Quote from: kkut on March 28, 2013, 11:21:01 PM
Life certainly feels like an illusion in many ways. I believe we're all just instances of the same object, that crazy place we call the universe. I don't believe 'we' wake into true reality, but rather another existence in another place and time, maybe in this universe or maybe another. I liked the movie 'Cloud Atlas', it kind of reflects some of my beliefs on our existence.

Kia Ora Kkut,

It looks like a good 'karmic' movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWnAqFyaQ5s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWnAqFyaQ5s)

Metta Zenda :)

The theory that we are all part of a computer simulation/someones dream has been going around since the days of the ancient philosophers.  Very interesting stuff.

Do others actually exist when we don't see them?

http://www.simulation-argument.com/ (http://www.simulation-argument.com/)

Quote from: kkut on March 28, 2013, 11:27:50 PM
I was looking at the woman in the red dress.  :embarrassed:

Kia Ora Kkut,

::) No...You were just dreaming ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Kuan Yin on March 28, 2013, 11:03:22 PM
Kia Ora

"When we die, do we awake from the daydream that we call life, into true reality ?—or at least into a truer dream ?"

Are we just dreaming ?

Are you in my dream ?

Or am I in yours ?

Sweet dreams :icon_sleep:



Metta Zenda :)

Cogito ergo sum - Decartes

Quote from: AusBelle on March 28, 2013, 11:35:58 PM
The theory that we are all part of a computer simulation/someones dream has been going around since the days of the ancient philosophers.  Very interesting stuff.

Do others actually exist when we don't see them?

http://www.simulation-argument.com/ (http://www.simulation-argument.com/)

Kia Ora AusBelle,

Now that's interesting....

"Do others actually exist when we don't see them?"


Does anything exist when we are not consciously  looking at it ?

In other words, for something to exist there must be an observer ...

Quote from: Jamie D on March 28, 2013, 11:43:46 PM
Cogito ergo sum - Decartes

Kia Ora Jamie

But who or what is the 'I' that thinks ?

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: MadelineB on March 28, 2013, 11:27:36 PM
My friend, who is a butterfly, said she used to be a human being but then she learned active dreaming, and no longer has those nightmares.

Kia Ora Madeline

I love Chuang Tzu's Taoist story of "The butterfly dream" http://www.taoism.net/living/2007/200703.htm (http://www.taoism.net/living/2007/200703.htm)

Metta Zenda :)

I think that Life can, at times, simply be too mundane to be anything other than what it is.

If I were going to dream my life, I would leave out paying bills and pulling weeds.

I did once have an interesting thought (yeah - right...) after watching a program about quantum physics/string theory/alternate and/or parallel universes...

The program painted a picture in which every action has divergent results that split off into parallel realities... so, by this reckoning, each of us are paying the consequences, or reaping the rewards, for every choice we've ever made in a number of realities. So I got to thinking: Why can't I choose to always exist in the best possible reality? The one that some copy of me must be in, in which every thing always goes right.

Seems legit.

Anyway... I had meant to implement the thought as a means of self-actualization - but sometimes I get too busy, and forget to live the Perfect Life.   ;)

Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually a giant, purple, tentacled monster who's been insane from birth and simply living in my own little world, when in actuality, I'm being strapped to one of those bed strapping things they use in hospitals while other big, purple and tentacled monsters poke and prod at my completely helpless body.

Quote from: Kuan Yin on March 28, 2013, 11:50:45 PM
Kia Ora AusBelle,

Now that's interesting....

"Do others actually exist when we don't see them?"


Does anything exist when we are not consciously  looking at it ?

In other words, for something to exist there must be an observer ...

***

Kia Ora Jamie

But who or what is the 'I' that thinks ?

Metta Zenda :)

I read parts of this in college, some 35 years ago.  I had hoped never to see it again.

http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Philosophy-Rene-Descartes/dp/1169222560/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1364610007&sr=1-1&keywords=principles+of+philosophy+descartes (http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Philosophy-Rene-Descartes/dp/1169222560/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1364610007&sr=1-1&keywords=principles+of+philosophy+descartes)

In answer to the first statement, "Does anything exist when we are not consciously looking at it ?"

Beside the obvious flaw using "looking," rather than "sensing," you discount that the object in question may be self-aware, and hence, be it's own observer.

Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on March 29, 2013, 08:37:07 PM
Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually a giant, purple, tentacled monster who's been insane from birth and simply living in my own little world, when in actuality, I'm being strapped to one of those bed strapping things they use in hospitals while other big, purple and tentacled monsters poke and prod at my completely helpless body.

You are.

Quote from: Jamie D on March 29, 2013, 09:26:51 PM
I read parts of this in college, some 35 years ago.  I had hoped never to see it again.

http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Philosophy-Rene-Descartes/dp/1169222560/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1364610007&sr=1-1&keywords=principles+of+philosophy+descartes (http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Philosophy-Rene-Descartes/dp/1169222560/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1364610007&sr=1-1&keywords=principles+of+philosophy+descartes)

In answer to the first statement, "Does anything exist when we are not consciously looking at it ?"

Beside the obvious flaw using "looking," rather than "sensing," you discount that the object in question may be self-aware, and hence, be it's own observer.

Kia Ora Jamie,

True...

Metta Zenda :)

If we consider that all experience is part of the fabric of natural existence.

That natural existence is part of a continually expanding material, endlessly created from the most essential fabric, which has always been.

That as the expansion continues, material will eventually break down into its sub parts and continue until there is only one part, the part which existed at the beginning of all time.

Then the universe will continue to exist in a perpetual, unchanging state, absolute zero, no movement, no activity. All energy gone. All potential expended.

It seems that we and us and all that there is or every was or every will be is actually part of one aspect. In the immensity of space time, a thought, a deed, a moment, is no more and no less than the point at which it all started or the universe in which it will all end.

We're not star dust really. We're not cosmic energy. We're all that there is and all that there ever will be.

Quote from: spacial on April 25, 2013, 04:13:13 AM
If we consider that all experience is part of the fabric of natural existence.

That natural existence is part of a continually expanding material, endlessly created from the most essential fabric, which has always been.

That as the expansion continues, material will eventually break down into its sub parts and continue until there is only one part, the part which existed at the beginning of all time.

Then the universe will continue to exist in a perpetual, unchanging state, absolute zero, no movement, no activity. All energy gone. All potential expended.

It seems that we and us and all that there is or every was or every will be is actually part of one aspect. In the immensity of space time, a thought, a deed, a moment, is no more and no less than the point at which it all started or the universe in which it will all end.

We're not star dust really. We're not cosmic energy. We're all that there is and all that there ever will be.

Kia Ora,

You're dreaming again Jill  ;) ;D

"May I clearly perceive all experiences to be as insubstantial as the dream fabric of the night and instantly awaken to perceive the pure wisdom display in the arising of every phenomenon !"   

Metta Zenda :)

Life is as a dream, it's not a dream.

The major difference is that there are no other minds in your dream except your own mind :)

The expression "life is as a dream" is a bit misleading, because it tends to be misinterpreted as meaning "nothing is real, everything is illusion" (which is actually defended by some Hindu schools). This, however, is not completely correct: there is a conventional reality to life — we can all agree, for instance, that certain experiences and phenomena are common to all of us, and, therefore, we cannot reject their existence.

For example, we all agree that the sun shines during the day. What is different for everybody is how the experience of the sun affects each of us. Some might love the heat of the sun, others might feel the heat oppressive and hate the sun, most will be indifferent. So the sun, by itself, definitely exists, but its perception differs with the observer, and is definitely not the same for each person.

Similarly, what happens in our lives can be experienced in completely different ways, but it's foolish to reject those experiences as "illusions" or "dreams". For example, if we win the lottery, everybody around us might feel jealous (some will be happy, though!) and think that nothing could be better. But for us winners, it means that now we have an additional problem to deal with: how to protect the money, how to protect ourselves from hordes of "friends" who suddenly want to borrow some money or expect lavish gifts. So we cannot say that the event of winning the lottery didn't happen except in our minds — it definitely happened! — but the way we experience it depends upon our individual minds.

So why is "life like a dream"? Well, a dream is only experienced by the dreamer. What that means is that the experience of a dream is individual and unique, and while it can be described in detail to another person, it cannot be "shared", in the sense that the description, by itself, is not enough to evoke the same dream on the other person. Now this seems obvious — the best that the other person can do is to imagine the dream, based on its description, but they cannot experience the same dream. It will be a different dream! Even if the description could be accurate to the most infinitesimal detail, it would still be filtered by the perceptions of the listener, who would construct a slightly different mental image of that dream. No matter how much detail we put in the description, there is no way to replicate the experience absolutely.

But the same happens to each and every experience in our lives! For example, imagine that I love women and watch a gorgeous blonde walking across the street. This evokes in me a certain image, tinted by my biased opinion about what a beautiful woman should look like. If I describe that blonde to a female, cisgendered, heterosexual friend, then she will create a completely different image in her mind. Why? Because my attraction to that blonde has a lot of feelings and concepts about those feelings attached to the blonde, while my heterosexual girlfriend will have different feelings and concepts. So the mental image she creates from the same person will be different — it cannot be otherwise, since we are different persons. To put it bluntly: we create mental images of all that surrounds us and all that happens in our life, and, while that sequence of events that we call "life" is experienced by different people (not just myself!), their experience is totally different. Just like a dream, we cannot convey fully our experience of events happening in our life to other people: they will filter those events according to their own filters, perceptions, and ideas, just like they do with their dreams.

This is a bit more complex than it sounds, but I think that it's rather easy to see how different people view their lives (and all that happens in their lives) differently, because, well, they have different minds. So it's not like "life" is merely a collective hallucination and there is "nothing" out there. Rather, we know that there is "something" outside our minds because we can register how others react to the same events, so we know those events are real and existent. Nevertheless, we also know that every person sees each event in a slightly different way — or sometimes in a completely opposite way.

Life is definitely much more than merely a dream, but it shares the same attribute as the dream: the intangibility of the experience, which cannot be expressed in words, and which will be different from person to person.

Quote from: Ms. OBrien CVT on March 28, 2013, 11:13:08 PM
Maybe we are all just characters in someone's hologram program.

Let's see.

Computer, End Program.

I don't think the holodeck safety functions are operational.  I cut my finger last week.

Life, like dreams, is always personal and subjective. What I live. What I dream.
I chose to share my life and my dreams with people who might not find mine too boring, and who will refrain from trying to analyze the heck out of it.

Quote from: Anatta on March 28, 2013, 11:03:22 PM
Kia Ora

"When we die, do we awake from the daydream that we call life, into true reality ?—or at least into a truer dream ?"

Are we just dreaming ?

Are you in my dream ?

Or am I in yours ?

Sweet dreams :icon_sleep:



Metta Zenda :)

It's a great question.  I can't answer it, yet.  Are you familiar with the idea that we could be a computer generated program?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp4NkItgf0E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s60vOLwsa2g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnl6nY8YKHs

Quote from: Kate G on September 25, 2013, 11:37:26 PM

It's a great question.  I can't answer it, yet.  Are you familiar with the idea that we could be a computer generated program?

Kia Ora Kate,

I'm familiar with the concept, but I guess if this is/was the case, my programme malfunctioned and went rogue...The creative nature of the mind is limitless, but some have yet to go beyond what they mistakenly believe to be their limit...

A little food for thought from Alan Watts...This video clip attacks ones senses from two angles...

"Time to wake up"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrimB9N0Zak

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Anatta on September 26, 2013, 10:50:15 PM
Kia Ora Kate,

I'm familiar with the concept, but I guess if this is/was the case, my programme malfunctioned and went rogue...The creative nature of the mind is limitless, but some have yet to go beyond what they mistakenly believe to be their limit...

Kia Ora Koe,

I have been doing some thinking as to Pride and what Pride is.  People have been talking about their Pride when it comes to being trans. It is my understanding that Pride in that sense is a reaction to shame. Others are ashamed of us or perhaps on some level we are ashamed of ourselves so we adopt Pride as a reaction to shame. We are proud of who we are because otherwise the shame might crush us. But it is all ideas.  Isn't it strange that ideas can become a matter of life and death?  Isn't it strange that ideas can cause such suffering and pave the way for disease and ultimately death?  Ideas are not physical but they can affect our physical health and influence us.  Our ideas can superimpose themselves on our experience and affect reality turning a life experience into a living Hell.

Even in the most honorable sense what is Pride?  Is Pride taken in a job well done?  Compared to what, a job poorly done?  Is Pride then a reaction to a poorly done job?  So maybe Pride is actually a result of making judgments and placing importance upon judgments.  Instead of making a pair of shoes and thinking, "These shoes are attractive and symmetrical, they fit the feet of the wearer and will give years of service."  Instead of that one thinks, "These shoes are superior to any other shoes, I make the best shoes therefore I elevate myself above all other shoe makers."  Which might seem useful if you are trying to sell your product.  The question is then if one experiences Pride then who is the intended consumer?  Who is she trying to sell her ideas to, herself?

Pride is an idea that happens in the mind.  The mind is like a buffer for events that happen outside of the mind except when the mind becomes an alternative to real life experiences.  As a buffer the mind is like a simulation.  The baseball player imagines hitting the ball before he actually hits it.  If the baseball player misses the ball or doubts his success in his mind then he becomes more likely to strike out in real life.  The baseball player could decide in his mind that he can never hit the ball and then logically he would discontinue the sport.  If one decides she is a "looser" in her mind then the rest of her life will tend to play out in a way that is harmonic with her belief.  So what is pride?  Someone believes that trans women are less than other women and that someone communicates this idea to a trans woman.  The trans woman adopts Pride as a means to combat what someone told her about trans women.  So Pride represents a struggle against an idea that was put into the mind by someone else.  The problem is that when we use Pride to battle an idea we create a war in our mind.  We think that Pride is the solution but Pride is just an idea and so was the other idea.  Perhaps we could just examine an idea and then choose to let go of it.  That would save a lot of energy and free up our lives for other things.

Pride begins to lock us into a "reality" and as long as we hold onto the idea of Pride then that reality will begin to superimpose itself upon our own reality and there will be consequences.  More likely than not the victim will begin to experience herself as an idea instead of who she really is.

It is my understanding that there exist alternate realities all around us, one inside of another, inside of another and that in order to shift from one reality to another we must shift our own frequency to match the frequency of the reality we wish to inhabit. I believe that Gandhi said, "If you wish to change the world change yourself."  If reality is virtual, if reality is a computer program then perhaps what Gandhi said begins to make even more sense.  If we can change how we look at the world then the world will change.  If we can change ourselves then the space we inhabit will change.  Some have said that we are consciousness.  That ultimately we are spiritual beings having an Earth experience or a human experience. 

The mind is like a buffer for things that happen in the real world.  The pitcher throws the baseball in his mind before he throws the ball.  If the pitcher experiences a successful throw in his mind, he is more likely to experience a successful pitch in real life.

It has been said by scientists that there is a thing called the observer effect.  That the act of merely observing something influences the outcome of the experiment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJThU1jDT2o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1YqgPAtzho

What if where we are now is a product of what we thought before we began having this human experience?

What if meditation and consciousness converts thought from a wave function to a particle function?

Then perhaps one could go from creating patterns of interference that have a broad influence but are perhaps weaker and take more time to influence an environment to something more singular and specific?  What if the computer code becomes conscious of it self, is that enlightenment?  It appears that when matter is broken down into it's smallest particles what you get are bits of information like computer code.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9eqh5tkBII

What can be proven?  What can be dis-proven? What can be experienced? What if everything is true? What if everything is untrue?

Pride = Resistance.  Resistance = War. War = Death.

QuoteI was once asked why I don't participate in anti-war demonstrations. I said that I will never do that, but as soon as you have a pro-peace rally, I'll be there.
~Mother Teresa

I doubt if computer code creates anything by being against something. 

Quote from: Kate G on September 27, 2013, 03:44:07 PM

Kia Ora Koe,

I have been doing some thinking as to Pride and what Pride is.  People have been talking about their Pride when it comes to being trans. It is my understanding that Pride in that sense is a reaction to shame. Others are ashamed of us or perhaps on some level we are ashamed of ourselves so we adopt Pride as a reaction to shame. We are proud of who we are because otherwise the shame might crush us. But it is all ideas.  Isn't it strange that ideas can become a matter of life and death?  Isn't it strange that ideas can cause such suffering and pave the way for disease and ultimately death?  Ideas are not physical but they can affect our physical health and influence us.  Our ideas can superimpose themselves on our experience and affect reality turning a life experience into a living Hell.

Even in the most honorable sense what is Pride?  Is Pride taken in a job well done?  Compared to what, a job poorly done?  Is Pride then a reaction to a poorly done job?  So maybe Pride is actually a result of making judgments and placing importance upon judgments.  Instead of making a pair of shoes and thinking, "These shoes are attractive and symmetrical, they fit the feet of the wearer and will give years of service."  Instead of that one thinks, "These shoes are superior to any other shoes, I make the best shoes therefore I elevate myself above all other shoe makers."  Which might seem useful if you are trying to sell your product.  The question is then if one experiences Pride then who is the intended consumer?  Who is she trying to sell her ideas to, herself?

Pride is an idea that happens in the mind.  The mind is like a buffer for events that happen outside of the mind except when the mind becomes an alternative to real life experiences.  As a buffer the mind is like a simulation.  The baseball player imagines hitting the ball before he actually hits it.  If the baseball player misses the ball or doubts his success in his mind then he becomes more likely to strike out in real life.  The baseball player could decide in his mind that he can never hit the ball and then logically he would discontinue the sport.  If one decides she is a "looser" in her mind then the rest of her life will tend to play out in a way that is harmonic with her belief.  So what is pride?  Someone believes that trans women are less than other women and that someone communicates this idea to a trans woman.  The trans woman adopts Pride as a means to combat what someone told her about trans women.  So Pride represents a struggle against an idea that was put into the mind by someone else.  The problem is that when we use Pride to battle an idea we create a war in our mind.  We think that Pride is the solution but Pride is just an idea and so was the other idea.  Perhaps we could just examine an idea and then choose to let go of it.  That would save a lot of energy and free up our lives for other things.

Pride begins to lock us into a "reality" and as long as we hold onto the idea of Pride then that reality will begin to superimpose itself upon our own reality and there will be consequences.  More likely than not the victim will begin to experience herself as an idea instead of who she really is.

It is my understanding that there exist alternate realities all around us, one inside of another, inside of another and that in order to shift from one reality to another we must shift our own frequency to match the frequency of the reality we wish to inhabit. I believe that Gandhi said, "If you wish to change the world change yourself."  If reality is virtual, if reality is a computer program then perhaps what Gandhi said begins to make even more sense.  If we can change how we look at the world then the world will change.  If we can change ourselves then the space we inhabit will change.  Some have said that we are consciousness.  That ultimately we are spiritual beings having an Earth experience or a human experience.


The mind is like a buffer for things that happen in the real world.  The pitcher throws the baseball in his mind before he throws the ball.  If the pitcher experiences a successful throw in his mind, he is more likely to experience a successful pitch in real life. (Visualisation Techniques use by many sports people)

It has been said by scientists that there is a thing called the observer effect.  That the act of merely observing something influences the outcome of the experiment.

What if where we are now is a product of what we thought before we began having this human experience?

What if meditation and consciousness converts thought from a wave function to a particle function?

Then perhaps one could go from creating patterns of interference that have a broad influence but are perhaps weaker and take more time to influence an environment to something more singular and specific?  What if the computer code becomes conscious of it self, is that enlightenment?  It appears that when matter is broken down into it's smallest particles what you get are bits of information like computer code.


What can be proven?  What can be dis-proven? What can be experienced? What if everything is true? What if everything is untrue?

Pride = Resistance.  Resistance = War. War = Death.

I doubt if computer code creates anything by being against something.

Kia Ora Kate,

Some interesting theories you have there...The mind boggles with possibilities...

If you change the way you look at things-The things you look at change !
And just like the observed in quantum physics, they start to rearrange !  )


Quantum physics is quite interesting, I liken it to the Buddhist concept of "Form is Emptiness-Emptiness is Form" ...Whereas we(like everything else in the universe) are just bundles of vibrating energies in a constant state of flux, held together by karmic glue....

"What 'I' think, 'I' become ! But 'I' am not the thought ! Thought itself is the thinker!

You mentioned that you practiced Zazen, so are you familiar with the five aggregates of 'form' 'consciousness' 'sensation' 'perception' 'habitual tendencies'  that make up the self/ego/I ? Once the five aggregates are broken down (in awareness meditation) what is left to do the clinging, no-thing but the illusion...

http://www.behance.net/gallery/Magic-Self-Moving-Patterns/1606319

Pride=attachment=illusion


Metta Zenda :)

Hello Anatta,

QuoteApparent Motion
Static but moving
Two Zen monks were arguing about a flag being blown by the wind.

One said: 'The flag is moving...'

The other answered: 'The wind is moving!'

The prior of the monastery happened to be passing by. He told them: 'Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving...'

This short anecdote serves to explain that the concept and perception of motion is sometimes ambiguous. It often occurs that we perceive motion where in fact there is none. An everyday example: you are in a train at a station, looking out of the window at another neighboring train that starts moving. At this instant, doesn't it feel like your own train is moving in the opposite direction?
In the world of optical illusions, the term 'apparent motion' or 'illusory motion' (also known as 'anomalous motion illusion') is used to define the appearance of movement in a static image. What makes this kind of illusion so interesting is the fact that you are experiencing movement, although you know that the supposedly moving objects are not moving at all. http://www.behance.net/gallery/Magic-Self-Moving-Patterns/1606319

Our eyes do not see, they are simply tools used by the mind.  The mind sees.  Everything that appears to happen outside of our bodies is being experienced inside of the mind.  The flag that waves in the wind is experienced inside of the mind. If someone were to take your brain out of your head and suspend it inside of a tank of solution connected by wires to a computer and then run a virtual reality simulation without your knowledge, then you would experience that computer generated life as if it were your own.  It would be as real as the life you are experiencing at this moment.  The only way to see past any illusion is to let go of one's attachments.

As for me while I practice Zen meditation and while I have done so now for about five or maybe six years (off and on) all I really know about the subject is http://zmm.mro.org/teachings/meditation-instructions/ and one free class that I took at a monastery.  The first time I meditated successfully was a pretty profound experience because I realized for the first time that I was not my thoughts.  The first time I transitioned and engaged in sexual intercourse with a man who did not know my trans history was a pretty profound experience because I realized for the first time that I was not my ideas.  I'm not here to teach anyone anything, really I am just exploring.


Have a Nice Day :)

No, it's not a dream, but I'm pretty sure it's about rowing a boat.

Quote from: Lyric on September 28, 2013, 01:18:49 PM
No, it's not a dream, but I'm pretty sure it's about rowing a boat.

Have you been listening to Wayne Dyer?

I've had dreams that were so elaborate and vivid, and I'm a completely different person. They seem to come along with whole memories of places and people that don't match my real life. It's enough to have me wondering occasionally if this life is a dream too and wondering when I'm going to wake up to something else.

Quote from: Kate G on September 28, 2013, 01:06:57 PM
Hello Anatta,



Our eyes do not see, they are simply tools used by the mind.  The mind sees.  Everything that appears to happen outside of our bodies is being experienced inside of the mind.  The flag that waves in the wind is experienced inside of the mind. If someone were to take your brain out of your head and suspend it inside of a tank of solution connected by wires to a computer and then run a virtual reality simulation without your knowledge, then you would experience that computer generated life as if it were your own.  It would be as real as the life you are experiencing at this moment.  The only way to see past any illusion is to let go of one's attachments.

As for me while I practice Zen meditation and while I have done so now for about five or maybe six years (off and on) all I really know about the subject is http://zmm.mro.org/teachings/meditation-instructions/ and one free class that I took at a monastery.  The first time I meditated successfully was a pretty profound experience because I realized for the first time that I was not my thoughts.  The first time I transitioned and engaged in sexual intercourse with a man who did not know my trans history was a pretty profound experience because I realized for the first time that I was not my ideas.  I'm not here to teach anyone anything, really I am just exploring.


Have a Nice Day :)

Kia Ora Kate,

And therein lies the paradox of Zen...If one is not their thoughts then who or what are they ? And who or what is it who lets go of attachments ?

Awareness : "There was a young wo/man who said though it seems I know that I know what I would like to see is the "I" that knows 'me' when I know that I know that I know !"

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Lyric on September 28, 2013, 01:18:49 PM
No, it's not a dream, but I'm pretty sure it's about rowing a boat.

Kia Ora Lyric,

Buddhism can be liken to the boat/raft one uses to row across the ocean of Samsara(the dreamlike delussional state-the cycle of rebirth)...Once one arrives on the other shore(one wakes up ) one has no further use for the boat/raft anymore, however if one 'thinks' "This boat/raft was useful and might come in handy later." they are still caught up in the dream...(like when one dreams one as just awoken from a dream only to find they are still dreaming)

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: dalebert on September 28, 2013, 02:12:48 PM
I've had dreams that were so elaborate and vivid, and I'm a completely different person. They seem to come along with whole memories of places and people that don't match my real life. It's enough to have me wondering occasionally if this life is a dream too and wondering when I'm going to wake up to something else.

Kia Ora Dalebert,

Chuang Tzu..... I dreamed I was a butterfly, flitting around in the sky; then I awoke. Now I wonder: Am I a man who dreamt of being a butterfly, or am I a butterfly !

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Anatta on September 28, 2013, 03:03:11 PM
Kia Ora Kate,

And therein lies the paradox of Zen...If one is not their thoughts then who or what are they ? And who or what is it who lets go of attachments ?

Awareness : "There was a young wo/man who said though it seems I know that I know what I would like to see is the "I" that knows 'me' when I know that I know that I know !"

Metta Zenda :)

Hello Anatta,


What feels true to me is this....

QuoteAnd therein lies the paradox of Zen...If one is not their thoughts then who or what are they ?

One is many is awareness.

Thoughts are intentions.

Intention is like gardening.  One does not plant a garden and then walk away.  A garden requires a gardener.  The gardener is consciousness, the act of gardening is intention.  When one gardens long enough things grow.  The garden exists as an idea and as a process. 

the one who lets go is the unintended.  The guru who sits upon the elephant is let go and the mind becomes the elephant.

Consciousness is infinite. The mind regulates what is infinite into what is possible.  The mind is like a bridge between what is infinite and what we call the human experience.  Sometimes our human experience creates our idea of what is possible but we are infinite beings having a human experience.  When we believe in the human experience and forget who we are then in order to go back to being infinite we let go of finite thinking.  When we are unable to determine what is finite and what is infinite, when we have lost our way and our true sense of self then we let go of thinking and return to our original state, the state of being conscious without judging.

At least this is what feels true to me.

We are spiritual beings having a physical experience.  It is easy to get lost in this physical experience and to forget who we are.  We are love.  Love is what we are.  Love is the only thing that matters.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRkDicwjRQs


Another sloppy post tossed together by my intentions, regulated by restrictions.

Have a nice day :)

Quote from: Kate G on September 28, 2013, 04:08:51 PM


Hello Anatta,


What feels true to me is this....

One is many is awareness.

Thoughts are intentions.

Intention is like gardening.  One does not plant a garden and then walk away.  A garden requires a gardener.  The gardener is consciousness, the act of gardening is intention.  When one gardens long enough things grow.  The garden exists as an idea and as a process. 

the one who lets go is the unintended.  The guru who sits upon the elephant is let go and the mind becomes the elephant.

Consciousness is infinite. The mind regulates what is infinite into what is possible.  The mind is like a bridge between what is infinite and what we call the human experience.  Sometimes our human experience creates our idea of what is possible but we are infinite beings having a human experience.  When we believe in the human experience and forget who we are then in order to go back to being infinite we let go of finite thinking.  When we are unable to determine what is finite and what is infinite, when we have lost our way and our true sense of self then we let go of thinking and return to our original state, the state of being conscious without judging.

At least this is what feels true to me.

We are spiritual beings having a physical experience.  It is easy to get lost in this physical experience and to forget who we are.  We are love.  Love is what we are.  Love is the only thing that matters.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRkDicwjRQs


Another sloppy post tossed together by my intentions, regulated by restrictions.

Have a nice day :)

Kia Ora Kate,


If it feels right for you then that's what's important...You make some interesting points which shows you are looking past the finger that points to the moon and directly at the moon...(Not fixated on the finger)...

The mind after all,(according to Buddhism including Zen) is and has always simply been 'knowing'...One can use the mind to understand/know logic, but one can't use logic to understand the mind, and to try to do so can be liken to the dog who suffers from OCD that chases its tail...Does it know it's its own tail when it has caught it ?

Metta Zenda :)

Kia Ora Kate,

You might find this short video clip of interest...It's what happens in the brain when 'thinking' takes place..."Thinking in the physiological sense is just movement confined to the brain"

Neurons that fire together wire together...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI388XoCp48

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Kate G on September 28, 2013, 02:04:56 PMHave you been listening to Wayne Dyer?

No, but I hope he rows his gently.

Quote from: Lyric on September 29, 2013, 10:30:38 AM
No, but I hope he rows his gently.

Nice to get some good LOLs this morning :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5ZmReC-bMA

Quote from: Anatta on September 28, 2013, 08:16:28 PM
Kia Ora Kate,

You might find this short video clip of interest...It's what happens in the brain when 'thinking' takes place..."Thinking in the physiological sense is just movement confined to the brain"

Are you certain?

If one has never experienced life and only has dreamed, does that not make the dreams life by themselves?

Quote from: Kate G on October 02, 2013, 03:20:07 PM

Are you certain?

Kia Ora Kate,

From a purely scientific stand point, in the physical sense yes....

According to the latest scientific findings (neuroscience) thinking basically is just movement/firing of chemicals known as neurotransmitters in the brain...(Hence "movement confined to the brain")

Quote :
"Communication of information between neurons is accomplished by movement of chemicals across a small gap called the synapse. Chemicals, called neurotransmitters, are released from one neuron at the presynaptic nerve terminal. Neurotransmitters then cross the synapse where they may be accepted by the next neuron at a specialized site called a receptor."


Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Avatar0Lyra on October 02, 2013, 04:23:23 PM
If one has never experienced life and only has dreamed, does that not make the dreams life by themselves?

Kia Ora A,

You make a good point...

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Anatta on October 02, 2013, 11:10:34 PM
Kia Ora Kate,

From a purely scientific stand point, in the physical sense yes....

According to the latest scientific findings (neuroscience) thinking basically is just movement/firing of chemicals known as neurotransmitters in the brain...(Hence "movement confined to the brain")

Quote :
"Communication of information between neurons is accomplished by movement of chemicals across a small gap called the synapse. Chemicals, called neurotransmitters, are released from one neuron at the presynaptic nerve terminal. Neurotransmitters then cross the synapse where they may be accepted by the next neuron at a specialized site called a receptor."


Metta Zenda :)

The closer you look, the less you see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKioZfRw2-Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naGg9_mZnAg

Quote from: Kate G on October 03, 2013, 01:01:06 AM

The closer you look, the less you see.

Kia Ora Kate,

Tis true, Quantum Physic is 'mind' blowing, and just proving the point made many moons ago by ancient Eastern philosophers  "Form is Emptiness-Emptiness is Form!"

According to the Indian Buddhist teacher and philosopher Nagarjuna, the way that phenomena appear to us is different from the way that they actually exist. Although phenomena appear to exist inherently, they are actually empty of inherent existence. (Quantum Physics - waves, particles and the observer)

The arising of phenomena dependently in relation to their causes and conditions of existence means that phenomena are in cause-and-effect relationships. Phenomena are not inherently the cause of their own existence. The continuation or cessation of phenomena is also dependent upon causes and conditions of existence, and is not inherently existent.

If you disassemble a chariot part by part, at exactly what point does it cease to be a chariot? This is a subjective judgment. Some might think it's no longer a chariot once it can no longer function as a chariot. Others might argue that the eventual pile of wooden parts is still a chariot, albeit a disassembled one.
The point is that "chariot" is a designation we give to a phenomenon; there is no inherent "chariot nature" dwelling in the chariot.

He went on to say that it is incorrect to say that things exist, but it is also incorrect to say that they don't exist. Because all phenomena exist interdependently, and are void of self-essence, all distinctions we make between this and that phenomena are arbitrary and relative. So, things and beings "exist" only in a relative way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj_i7YqDwJA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlmrHMBW36w

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
Albert Einstein

Metta Zenda :)

Hello Anatta,

I did a 3 hour sensory deprivation session today and my mind feels a little off in the distance right now.

But...  You appeared to be saying that what happens in the mind, happens in the mind or brain and that it amounts to movement in the brain.  It surprised me that you would place emphasis on this or suggest that it is true.  The following 3:28 minute YouTube short will help you to get an idea where I am coming from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lguJAl6lCW4

So if you watched the video above then you know what the Endocrinologist Deepak Chopra spoke about regarding how thinking in the human body is not limited to the brain. Thinking in the human body happens outside of the brain.

The reason I provided the video about particle/wave function and the double slit experiment in my previous post was to showcase how when a scientist observes a particle, the particle functions differently.  In the video I provided the scientists observed the particle entering the slit and when the particle was observed it changed it's behavior.  The observer principle demonstrates how the mere act of observation changes the outcome of an experiment and it has been proven in other experiments as well.

You cannot see with your eyes.  Your eyes are merely tools that the brain uses in order to process stimuli.  So if the observed particle changes it's behavior upon observation then it is what is happening in the observer's brain that affects the behavior of the particle or electron.  In other words thoughts change how an electron behaves.  Now in order for thoughts to affect how a particle outside of the brain behaves then one might come to the conclusion that thoughts extend outside of the human brain.  Thoughts would have to extend outside of the human body in order to affect the behavior of a particle that is outside of the human body.

There is rumored to be something referred to as an Aura.  I don't know much about the Aura but what is it?  I have heard that the Aura of a person changes depending upon the kinds of thoughts he or she is thinking.  Perhaps an Aura is thought energy.

Some people are rumored to be able to engage in telekinesis and if so then what is the energy that they use in order to affect an object outside of their body?

There is a consciousness that surrounds the planet earth, perhaps it fills the earth too.  Perhaps this consciousness exists in everything and can be referred to as "god".  In the past when I have successfully meditated I have tapped into this consciousness and I have come to know things I never learned.  A friend of mine told me the word for this, a word that describes a library of knowledge that exists in the ether and I regret that I cannot remember what it is called.

Some spiritual leaders have said that we are all one and that what we are is consciousness and that if I was enlightened then I could wiggle your left toe just as I could wiggle my own left toe.  In order for this stuff to happen it would seem that thoughts could not merely be electrical impulses that only happen in the cranium of the one thinking them.

I can think of other examples.  A mother who just knows that something has happened to her child.  It seems obvious to me that there is more to the human mind than 2.87 to 3.1 pounds of gray matter.


So Anatta...

Have you given any thought at all to what you would experience if instead of functioning as particles you began to function or exist as waves?  Would you experience ascension? How about your thoughts, have you given thought to whether your thoughts exist as particles or waves or both?  Perhaps you exist as particles and as waves?  Where is your mind located?  Is your mind stuck in a calcium vault that rides atop a spinal column?

I have heard it suggested that we are spiritual beings having a human experience.  A mind trapped inside of a calcium vault stuck atop a spinal column sounds very human but I suspect we are more than simply human and that rather we are spiritual beings in earth suits. Do spirits have minds?  Are spirits capable of thought?  Or are we just meat?

Have a lovely day ^_^

Quote from: Kate G on October 03, 2013, 04:22:05 AM
Hello Anatta,

I did a 3 hour sensory deprivation session today and my mind feels a little off in the distance right now.

But...  You appeared to be saying that what happens in the mind, happens in the mind or brain and that it amounts to movement in the brain.  It surprised me that you would place emphasis on this or suggest that it is true.  The following 3:28 minute YouTube short will help you to get an idea where I am coming from.



So if you watched the video above then you know what the Endocrinologist Deepak Chopra spoke about regarding how thinking in the human body is not limited to the brain. Thinking in the human body happens outside of the brain.

The reason I provided the video about particle/wave function and the double slit experiment in my previous post was to showcase how when a scientist observes a particle, the particle functions differently.  In the video I provided the scientists observed the particle entering the slit and when the particle was observed it changed it's behavior.  The observer principle demonstrates how the mere act of observation changes the outcome of an experiment and it has been proven in other experiments as well.

You cannot see with your eyes.  Your eyes are merely tools that the brain uses in order to process stimuli.  So if the observed particle changes it's behavior upon observation then it is what is happening in the observer's brain that affects the behavior of the particle or electron.  In other words thoughts change how an electron behaves.  Now in order for thoughts to affect how a particle outside of the brain behaves then one might come to the conclusion that thoughts extend outside of the human brain.  Thoughts would have to extend outside of the human body in order to affect the behavior of a particle that is outside of the human body.

There is rumored to be something referred to as an Aura.  I don't know much about the Aura but what is it?  I have heard that the Aura of a person changes depending upon the kinds of thoughts he or she is thinking.  Perhaps an Aura is thought energy.

Some people are rumored to be able to engage in telekinesis and if so then what is the energy that they use in order to affect an object outside of their body?

There is a consciousness that surrounds the planet earth, perhaps it fills the earth too.  Perhaps this consciousness exists in everything and can be referred to as "god".  In the past when I have successfully meditated I have tapped into this consciousness and I have come to know things I never learned.  A friend of mine told me the word for this, a word that describes a library of knowledge that exists in the ether and I regret that I cannot remember what it is called.

Some spiritual leaders have said that we are all one and that what we are is consciousness and that if I was enlightened then I could wiggle your left toe just as I could wiggle my own left toe.  In order for this stuff to happen it would seem that thoughts could not merely be electrical impulses that only happen in the cranium of the one thinking them.

I can think of other examples.  A mother who just knows that something has happened to her child.  It seems obvious to me that there is more to the human mind than 2.87 to 3.1 pounds of gray matter.


So Anatta...

Have you given any thought at all to what you would experience if instead of functioning as particles you began to function or exist as waves?  Would you experience ascension? How about your thoughts, have you given thought to whether your thoughts exist as particles or waves or both?  Perhaps you exist as particles and as waves?  Where is your mind located?  Is your mind stuck in a calcium vault that rides atop a spinal column?

I have heard it suggested that we are spiritual beings having a human experience.  A mind trapped inside of a calcium vault stuck atop a spinal column sounds very human but I suspect we are more than simply human and that rather we are spiritual beings in earth suits. Do spirits have minds?  Are spirits capable of thought?  Or are we just meat?

Have a lovely day ^_^

Kia Ora Kate,

I 'think' we have our wires crossed, for the most part we are in agreement regarding consciousness, however I was just pointing out a 'conventional world' scientific 'fact' about what happening in the brain when thought occurs...

The sensory depredation sounds quite interesting, however what long term benefits do you expect to gain from such an experience ?

Bodhidharma once said "The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind-The mind is the root from which all things grow-If you can understand the mind everything else is included !"

Meditation is something that is readily available on tap 24/7/365....
Nothing happens outside the mind Kate, there is no outside...We are nothing but psycho-physical phenomena-  bundles of vibration energy...It's 'all' in the mind-Mind is all there is...

Words do little to describe/explain what is known and at times can create even more confusion ... I'm under the impression you too have experienced the following when in deep meditation-free from the ego...

Awareness is fundamentally  non-conceptual - before 'thinking' splits experience into subject and object. It is 'empty' and so contains everything, including 'thought'. It is boundless. And amazingly it is intrinsically 'knowing' ! 

To 'think' is to 'thing' ....Think and thing are one of the same...Both conjured up in the mind (mind objects)...And spirits are also just part of the thought process, products of the mind...

Are they 'real' ? Then one must ask what is real ?

The mind is truly amazing....Wouldn't you agree ?

Metta Zenda :)

Hello Anatta,

I suppose that I am having trouble with this concept that nothing happens outside of the mind.

I have witnessed people and how they are often plagued with binary thinking.  Something has to be either on or off, either black or white, either right or wrong.  People attach themselves to absolutes. In the minds of most people someone is either a spiritual person or a heathen and the twain shall never meet.

QuoteBodhidharma once said "The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind-The mind is the root from which all things grow-If you can understand the mind everything else is included !"

I suppose we need to define the mind so we both understand what we are talking about.  Are we talking about the physical brain or are we talking about the mind.  Because you seemed to be placing emphasis on the physical brain I felt that you were saying that everything that happens happens within the confines of our craniums.

Introduction to Descartes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHihkRwisbE

Descartes introduction to 'The Mind/Body Problem'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLS6qoT0Ioo

Pineal gland, pineal gland, pineal gland.  If you watched the videos then perhaps you noticed that the pineal gland was mentioned as the conduit between what is spiritual and what is physical.  Here in the United States either toxic fluorosilicic acid also known as hexafluorosilicic, hexafluosilicic, hydrofluosilicic, and silicofluoric acid or Sodium fluorosilicate is added to our drinking water along with aluminum in the form of Aluminum sulphate. 

The toxic waste (fluorides) that are being added to our water today (byproducts of the aluminum and phosphate fertilizer industry) have NEVER been evaluated as to whether they reduce tooth decay.  And even back in the old days when Sodium fluoride was being used there was never a significant enough decrease in tooth decay to warrant bathing in fluoride or consumption of fluoride and yet toxic waste continues to be dumped into our water supply.

Anyway...  Some of you may realize that Prozac is made from fluoride.  Some of you may realize that rat poison is made from fluoride. Some of you may have heard that sodium fluoride was used to make prisoners docile.  In the United States we put dangerous additives into our food that have been banned in other countries and our pineal glands no longer function because they have been calcified not to mention dementia creeping in due to the aluminum in our water/food.  In the United States we love to say things like, "I don't care what is in my food, everybody dies anyway so why should I care what is in my food." "I eat whatever I crave and I crave whatever I eat."  And we get all excited about a two party political system, the right wing and the left wing which is really just two halves of the same bird and we wonder why every year we have bigger government, less freedom and why we keep less and less of a increasingly smaller paycheck. But soon there will be thousands of drones in the sky, keeping an eye on us and soon more people will be dying from drone accidents than from terrorist acts.

But I digress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkNTzFAVqSA

A nation of people with non-functioning pineal glands will never be in touch with their spiritual side.  The animal part of us then takes over and along with aluminum in the water we will become more and more like farm animals and we will get fatter and dumber until it is time for us to be slaughtered though it is more likely we will just become more diseased, sterile and age faster.  And our illustrious government will crumble due to the immense health costs.  It is a war fought by smart people.  Smart people who sought to destroy what was once considered the greatest country on Earth and most of us are too dumbed down at this point to even realize how far we have fallen.  We should be the smartest generation of people in human history but our public education system pumps out human livestock.

Anyway... that is what I 'feel' is happening.

I have been trying to purify my body and decalcify my pineal gland.

The whole sensory deprivation thing is a pretty deep topic and I need to get ready for work so that I can pay taxes so that children in the United States will be able to continue to drink water full of toxic fluorides and aluminum and so that they can continue to get a public education that is really just designed to create human meat that is incapable of connection to source or any kind of revelation and is ultimately incapable of thinking past the barrel of a gun.

Have a lovely day ^_^

Oh...  my friend told me the name for that ethereal library..

It is the Akashic Record.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjDBU_3Hf6Q

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashic_records

Quote from: Kate G on October 03, 2013, 05:06:02 PM
Hello Anatta,

I suppose that I am having trouble with this concept that nothing happens outside of the mind.

I have witnessed people and how they are often plagued with binary thinking.  Something has to be either on or off, either black or white, either right or wrong.  People attach themselves to absolutes. In the minds of most people someone is either a spiritual person or a heathen and the twain shall never meet.

I suppose we need to define the mind so we both understand what we are talking about.  Are we talking about the physical brain or are we talking about the mind.  Because you seemed to be placing emphasis on the physical brain I felt that you were saying that everything that happens happens within the confines of our craniums.


I have been trying to purify my body and decalcify my pineal gland.

The whole sensory deprivation thing is a pretty deep topic and I need to get ready for work so that I can pay taxes so that children in the United States will be able to continue to drink water full of toxic fluorides and aluminum and so that they can continue to get a public education that is really just designed to create human meat that is incapable of connection to source or any kind of revelation and is ultimately incapable of thinking past the barrel of a gun.

Have a lovely day ^_^

Kia Ora Kate,

My apologies for the confusion...The mind ( a non-physical phenomena which perceives, thinks, recognises, experiences and reacts to the environment) and brain ( organic matter=physical) are not one of the same but they do work in unison...The body and mind combine and interact in a complex way to constitute an individual. (The Japanese have a saying "Shiki shin funi shiki" The physical and spiritual aspects of our lives are completely inseparable and of equal importance-two but not two)

When I use the term 'mind' I speak of consciousness and the different levels of consciousness...And when I say that nothing exists outside the mind what I mean by this is no thing exists from its own side...For example a tree is just a concept conjured up by the mind, in ultimate reality there is no such thing as a 'tree' (See a couple of posts back : Nagarjuna  and the dismantled chariot) ...   

According to Buddhism there are two main types of mind the conceptual and the non-conceptual. The conceptual is the "normal" mind aspect we use to survive in daily life, but is ultimately mistaken about the way in which reality exists. The non-conceptual type of mind is also called the Buddha nature, fundamental pure nature of mind which realises emptiness...

"What is the mind? It is a phenomenon that is not body, not substantial, has no form, no shape, no colour, but, like a mirror, can clearly reflect objects."
Lama Zopa Rinpoche


I hope I've cleared up any confusion regarding mind and matter(brain)...

I look forward to finding out about your experience in the SD tank Kate...(If you can actually put this experience into words) ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)

Thank you very much Anatta ^_^ ,

I have a sort of metaphor/description that I would like to share with you of what I feel may begin to describe us.

We are for lack of a better word/concept "star creatures".  Perhaps we exist as part of the Akashic Record but in a sense we are not here.  We exist as a sort of galactic consciousness as a "cloud" of consciousness.  Have you ever seen the movie 'Avatar' (if not you really should) essentially we are "spiritual" beings having an earth or human experience.  So if you are familiar with the Movie 'Avatar' the main character enters a pod and gains control of a physical body and then lives through that artificial or cloned body.  I believe it might possibly be similar for us.  Our real mind exists outside of our body or inside and outside or "everywhere" as part of the cloud of consciousness.  And our physical brain is thinking meat.  It is necessary for the function of our body.  Our "spirit" is really another word for the part of us that exists everywhere as part of the cloud of consciousness however it is real and it connects to the physical brain through the pineal gland.

The source of suffering is identification with the physical body or meat suit.  Enlightenment is the realization that we are not the meat suit.

As far as I know the Buddha sat under a tree somewhere and experienced awareness without attachment, without identification, without judgment, without thinking.  He attained enlightenment by realizing or making real through experience that he was consciousness.  Meditation is good for realizing that we are consciousness and one can even gain knowledge from the Akashic Records when meditating.  Also meditating helps to clear the physical mind of noise and it is generally good therapy.

When one enters a sensory deprivation tank there is no longer the challenge upon the brain of outside stimulus.  The brain is no longer busy with the tasks associated with the senses.  This creates a more peaceful mind or allows for a more peaceful mind to occur as long as the participant is capable of stilling the mind.  No doubt if a sensory deprivation tank had been available to the Buddha then he would have used it.  It is a less primitive method for meditation that allows the entire body to relax.  One does not have to be conscious of how one is holding his or her hands.  The body no longer resists gravity or works to stay upright.  These are all functions of the body that are regulated by the brain and require the brain in order to occur.

So on a purely physical plane a sensory deprivation tank allows the individual to experience a better meditation or if not "better" then certainly a different kind of meditation where the outside world begins to have far less influence.  Floating in a heavy solution of Epson Salt water that is skin temperature in complete darkness with earplugs in.  One cannot help but become less conscious of the body and when the mind no longer has to monitor the environment or process visual images then the brain becomes far more quiet than simple seated meditation would tend to allow for.

These are my thoughts and feelings.  I recommend you DO NOT listen to what I say about this or anything but rather try it for yourself and arrive at your own experiences.


Have an awesome day ^_^ .

^ Modified this post to add information.

Oh...

And this is going to sound more amazing than it really is so process what I am about to say as being not very amazing at all.

Much of what happens during a sensory deprivation float happens on another level, and it takes a while for a human being to absorb or process.  So the benefits may be felt as much as two weeks after the float.  My 3 hour float seemed quite unspectacular and really I haven't noticed anything, kind of like after I got into a regular practice of meditation.  I felt like in order to have a meaningful or "felt" experience from meditation that I had to avoid it for a while.  During my second float I heard music that wasn't actually playing, so that was interesting.  My first float was just getting used to floating.  Sorry, not much to report.  There are tons of Youtubes regarding people's experiences.  Eventually I want to travel to a location where it is legal and participate in an ayahuasca or DMT smoking ceremony.  Because I want to communicate with the cloud and bring that experience back to earth and process it as a human being.  Or something like that.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca

One question occurred to me during my 3 hour float and that was, "What are you conscious of?"

Quote from: Kate G on October 04, 2013, 08:57:42 PM
Oh...

And this is going to sound more amazing than it really is so process what I am about to say as being not very amazing at all.

Much of what happens during a sensory deprivation float happens on another level, and it takes a while for a human being to absorb or process.  So the benefits may be felt as much as two weeks after the float.  My 3 hour float seemed quite unspectacular and really I haven't noticed anything, kind of like after I got into a regular practice of meditation.  I felt like in order to have a meaningful or "felt" experience from meditation that I had to avoid it for a while.  During my second float I heard music that wasn't actually playing, so that was interesting.  My first float was just getting used to floating.  Sorry, not much to report.  There are tons of Youtubes regarding people's experiences.  Eventually I want to travel to a location where it is legal and participate in an ayahuasca or DMT smoking ceremony.  Because I want to communicate with the cloud and bring that experience back to earth and process it as a human being.  Or something like that.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca

One question occurred to me during my 3 hour float and that was, "What are you conscious of?"

Kia Ora Kate,

Interesting question...

It can't be pure unpolluted consciousness itself, because there was a "you" involved ( the self who ask the question and was seeking the answer)...It's quite possible as you say that in a week or two the answer will come...

Tibetan Buddhists have this mantra "Om Mani Padme Hung" =The Jewel Is In The Lotus -this can be interpreted in different ways, however the most common is "What I seek, I already am !" (What we seek we are!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSD3tDoWNQ8

In this short clip Alan Watts (in not so many words) talks of the possibility of such a device as a SD float tank in order to experience different levels of consciousness...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_iyiW_jDGk

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Anatta on October 04, 2013, 11:40:51 PM
...It's quite possible as you say that in a week or two the answer will come...

Hello Anatta 

It wasn't my question and I am not seeking an answer.

It was a question that was asked of me... not by me.

Someone other than me asked me the question.

Pure awareness, what is that?  Ultimately it has to be a judgment. Pure awareness of what?  Sounds rhetorical.

I will watch the youtubes after I finish work, thank you Anatta ^_^

Quote from: Kate G on October 05, 2013, 12:25:17 AM

Hello Anatta 

It wasn't my question and I am not seeking an answer.

It was a question that was asked of me... not by me.

Someone other than me asked me the question.

Pure awareness, what is that?  Ultimately it has to be a judgment. Pure awareness of what?  Sounds rhetorical.

I will watch the youtubes after I finish work, thank you Anatta ^_^

Kia Ora Kate,

Awareness is fundamentally  non-conceptual - before 'thinking' splits experience into subject and object. It is 'empty' and so contains everything, including 'thought'. It is boundless. And amazingly it is intrinsically 'knowing'


What's of interests Kate is who other than the psycho-physical phenomenon we call the 'self' asked the question ? In a sense the "questioner"(who or whatever posed the question) already answered the question for "you" by posing the question..."What are you conscious of ?"

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Kate G on October 05, 2013, 07:37:30 AM
Hello Anatta,

Unfortunately I am no longer able to post on this website.

I received this today...


I was not told what topic I was reposting so in order to avoid being banned from this site I am no longer posting at all.

Also the warning was not technically from anyone so I was unable to return it to ask what topic I needed to avoid.

Thank you everyone ^_^ I will only be reading the site from now on so as to avoid future trouble.  I enjoyed chatting with you Anatta ^_^ thank you.

Kia Ora Kate,

Sad to hear that you have decided to stop posting...I enjoyed the food for thought, mind broadening debates...

Perhaps you should re-think your decision...

Many of us have had 'warnings' over one thing or other...Don't let this stop your participation, just try to be more mindful of what you post...The warning just serves as a conscious reminder...

"You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time!"

This forum has a very diverse membership and understandably(due to the nature of the forum) some very fragile members...Causing offence (be it unintentional) is more often than not, part and parcel of such forums...   

However if your mind is made up, I can only wish you well...

Metta Zenda :)