Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I am wondering, how do most MtF's achieve the breast size they desire?  Do most get actual implants or do they use herbs?  I have wanted, and desire breasts and have began to consider breast implants.  Is this the best or are there other alternatives that aren't quite so risky?

Well, the word "most" is kind of loaded here since
its not really known if mtf's breasts grow as big
as their genetic potential.

But, my opinion is that mtf, if properly treated, and not
too old, can reach their genetic breast size potential.

If consider than the main difference between
transitioning earlier and later, when considering
the breasts, is HGH (human growth hormone).
With age, this factor decreases, but the speed of the decrease
and is highly variable. With a lower HGH, breast growth
will be slower, yet should reach its genetic potential eventually
if a decent feminising dosage of hormones is taken for the
entire period no matter how long it is.

Say, at puberty, 2 year to get full devellopment, could become
5 years at 40, for some people (for others, it could be 2, or 8 ).

Past a certain point (different for every person), the age related HGH decrease, impact breast
growth rate so much that it might never reach its potential before death.
This happens in very high proportion in older TS's,
say those of 60 or more, but could happen earlier too.

Anyway, in my opinion, if your under 40 and under a decent feminising regime, you should be able to
to reach most of your genetic potential, whatever it may be, inside 5 years.

That being said, some are not patient, don't like the hand genetics, or in the case of
older TS's, are not ready to wait 15 years taking a high dose of hormones to achieve
full growth, so they go for a breast implant.

It is not recommended though to do it before having waited 2 years for hormones to work (and as I
said, in older patients, you may be surprised by the growth you get after that on top of your implant).

Myself, I've had 36C in 11 months at 39 years old. Not a typical result, but not that exceptional.

Quote from: Kira on May 27, 2007, 10:29:34 PM
I am wondering, how do most MtF's achieve the breast size they desire?  Do most get actual implants or do they use herbs?  I have wanted, and desire breasts and have began to consider breast implants.  Is this the best or are there other alternatives that aren't quite so risky?

Yes!  They do get implants. A few use herbs, but the results are not as good as getting hormones from a doctor or from overseas.

I guess I started with mail order hormones, and tried a few herbals. Then scraped up the nerve to see a local doctor, so I could get legal estrogen from Costco (the discount chain.) I just got 360 pills for $24 and change. Truly an amazing price.  :o

I must be low on HGH, because in over 3 years I still am about a 38AA.  :'(  Easy to hide, but less then I would really like to have. Walmart's 38b water bra helps a bit, but not enough.

I probably will some time get implants. I can not wait for ever, and at 62 it has been a long wait.





*edited to remove mg

"anything at all" is when you barely have bumps let alone can't fill a bra. Me, myself and I er I am in the can't fill a bra club; Getting closer as time goes on but ^*sigh* I don't want a BA, really I don't. But I wanna be flat even less. ^*frown*

Quote from: Keira on May 27, 2007, 10:57:02 PM
Well, the word "most" is kind of loaded here since
its not really known if mtf's breasts grow as big
as their genetic potential.

But, my opinion is that mtf, if properly treated, and not
too old, can reach their genetic breast size potential.

If consider than the main difference between
transitioning earlier and later, when considering
the breasts, is HGH (human growth hormone).
With age, this factor decreases, but the speed of the decrease
and is highly variable. With a lower HGH, breast growth
will be slower, yet should reach its genetic potential eventually
if a decent feminising dosage of hormones is taken for the
entire period no matter how long it is.

Say, at puberty, 2 year to get full devellopment, could become
5 years at 40, for some people (for others, it could be 2, or 8 ).

Past a certain point (different for every person), the age related HGH decrease, impact breast
growth rate so much that it might never reach its potential before death.
This happens in very high proportion for in
older TS's, say those of 65 or more, but could happen earlier too.

Anyway, in my opinion, if your under 40 and under a decent feminising regime, you should be able to
to reach most of your genetic potential, whatever it may be, inside 5 years.

That being said, some are not patient, or don't like the hand genetics handed them and do
go for a breast implant. It is not recommended though to do it before having waited 2 years for hormones to work.

Myself, I've had 36C in 11 months at 39 years old. Not a typical result, but not that exceptional.

Great points :)



Personally, i love my A cup boobs. I may eventually reach a B but from now I am content with what I have so far. I am doing it by way of hormones. I have way too many reservations with implants to ever get them.

Quote from: Keira on May 27, 2007, 10:57:02 PM
---snip---
If consider than the main difference between
transitioning earlier and later, when considering
the breasts, is HGH (human growth hormone).
With age, this factor decreases, but the speed of the decrease
and is highly variable. With a lower HGH, breast growth
will be slower, yet should reach its genetic potential eventually
if a decent feminising dosage of hormones is taken for the
entire period no matter how long it is. ---snip---

Has anyone heard of someone adding HGH to get better results?   ???

Most say that we will develope to 1 cup size smaller then your mother or sister. Mom and sis are both small, I do not have a chance.  >:(

HGH don't only impact the breasts and it is NOT recommended you use them past puberty.
Their effect are systemic and not necesserily what you'd want.

The one cup smaller than your sister thing is a myth, based on very little data.

Its only true if past SRS, you cut your hormone dosage to menopausal values.

At puberty, lower estrogen values have more effect (because of HGH).
That's why younger TS feminize more rapidly than older ones.
Older ones must take a higher dose to compensate for HGH decreasing
(but because higher doses carry side effects and there's a limit to estrogen receptor binding,
past a certain age, its not possible to fully compensate and devellopment speed decreases
VS that of a younger TS)

If you cut the dosage to menopausal levels too early, you cut yourself short and
decrease or almost halt feminisation speed.

Quote from: VickieDavis on May 27, 2007, 11:24:38 PM

Has anyone heard of someone adding HGH to get better results?   ???

Most say that we will develope to 1 cup size smaller then your mother or sister. Mom and sis are both small, I do not have a chance.  >:(

The boobs don't make the woman so you will be just fine :)

I began hormones at age 61 and had SRS at 63.  I developed "nearly B" breasts after 2 to 3 years and had saline implants at age 65.  Now 70, all seems to be stable at 38C (40B, actually). 

Your mileage may vary.

Robyn

Well well.....more boob chat.  We can't seem to get enough of it.  What about all the other wonderful things, like the wonderful changes that happen to your face?  Or the wonderful changes that happen to your bottom (Marcy loves my bottom.  I think it's kinda cute myself).  What about all the other things?  Women aren't just breasts, after all...
For me, I didn't think I'd ever get into an 'A' cup, then I thought I'd never get into a 'B' cup.  My 'B' is now a B+, and still slowly but surely going, even at 50-something.  I guess I'll end up a 'C'. 
That's on a proper regimen of estrogen 2 1/4 yrs, with spiro the last 10 months. My start date was Jan 15, 2005.
Relax.....give the magic of hrt time.

Bev

Quote from: Kira on May 27, 2007, 10:29:34 PM
Do most get actual implants or do they use herbs? 

I have to wonder what is behind your question.  Are you saying that you have no intention of using prescription hormones?  Certainly, noone gets significant breast growth from herbals alone, so if those are your only two options, implants make sense.  On the other hand if you are talking about using prescription hormones at the same time as herbals, that would be a mistake.  Phytoestrogens reduce the effectiveness of prescription estrogen. 

My personal preference is not get implants.  They look nice but don't feel right.

Quote from: Bev on May 31, 2007, 09:26:05 PM
What about all the other things?  Women aren't just breasts, after all...

That's what our society thinks.

Quote from: Lisbeth on May 31, 2007, 09:58:15 PM
That's what our society thinks.

Then, I'll do as I have all my life, and follow my heart.  Always have ignored convention.

Bev

Nothing behind my question lisbeth, I was just wondering, I am full of questions and that just happened to be one of them hehe. 

I will say that when I was 19 I had A cups. I am 32 now an they are a full C cup. Everyone will get different results and there are many determining factors.
This might belong in the sexuality forumn, but if you have a partner that plays with them they will get bigger to some extent, buy every little bit helps

Deb

Quote from: Keira on May 27, 2007, 10:57:02 PM
Myself, I've had 36C in 11 months at 39 years old. Not a typical result, but not that exceptional.

That's the same size I wear.  I've been on hormones for 16 months and I'm 29, but I can't say when they reached that size because I had been wearing WAY too small of a bra until recently.

In my rather long introduction, I told that I was raised as a girl for reason that are complicated, but should be read in the Introductions area as I don't want to go through writing it all over again...but...

I had estrogen for the treatment of migraines, and it worked for that the very week I started the drug...but my doctor told me to stay on the same prescription for at least six months to make sure that the migraines were really gone. He was an endo in Long Beach, California and had a rather unorthodox way of treating conditions off primary prescription use. Whatever...it worked and I have not had a migraine since. Bless him!   

Two months into the regimen, my wife noted that I was developing a shelf that was noticeable in my pullover sweaters. I had gone through the discovery that they were sore and itched and could jiggle a little when I washed my hair with my arms over my head.

In that first six months I developed the B+'s that later leveled out to full C's which I wear happily to this day.

My growth was not typical..and I have not seen too many of us who got such rapid growth and size with such a short regimen. I never took T-blockers, but just the estrogen all that time. Somehow it just clicked and I got fantastic growth all the while not losing my male libido.

Keeping another full year's worth of the pills on hand should the migraines return (I am deathly afraid of their return!) I started to take them again after my first wife passed away as I was depressed..I know: not a good or correct reason!......and went all the way to full-blown 38C's.

So..ultimately I took estrogen for just under eighteen months and got to where I am today. I didn't mention the brand name or the dosage this time..lol.

Skin got a lot softer and I noticed my nails got thinner, my hair more lush and I could cry at a sad movie. Getting all choked up at the sight of something stirring was a new feeling and I seem to have moved from the visual need of eroticism to literature and reading for entertainment. I got some fat redistributed to my hips, but not a whole lot. Measurements are 39-27-38, and is still a little easy to conceal. Fitting for suits and shirts is a lot harder however.

My sense of smell increased and I developed cataracts and a detached retina which may or not be related. I also got osteoporosis, but that too might just be a genetic thing. My osteo is at >2.5, if I got the numbers or the symbol correct..but it too is full blown osteo and I have to be very careful any more about breaking bones or whatever. 

All this for a simple migraine cure.  But I got b(*)(*)bs.

I like the way they are in my way sometimes...I like the way they feel when I lie on my back or step off a curb when they "snap" in the bra cups. I can still see my feet..but I have to look around them now. I like the way they roll on my chest during sex with my wife. I love the way they hang from my chest when I am leaning over something or someone. They're still perky, after all they are a lot younger than a natal girl's since I got mine after my 36th birthday. .

But I digress (again) and this topic is BREASTS..so, yes I have nice ones IMHO and my current wife loves them as much as I do and I don't want to change them, me or anything in my life at the moment. 

I believe in medicines, not herbs or potions, salves or wishes. I got mine the old fashioned way...I had drugs.

Quote from: Tink on May 27, 2007, 11:08:55 PM
Through the double S treatment!  ;)  Oh, by double S treatment, I mean:

SS = Silcone or Saline.  Yeah, some of us do not develop anything at all despite the massive dosages of hormones, so our only option is to get help from the breast fairy.


tink :icon_chick:

Indeed.

Silly perhaps as it may sound, this was one of the best things that has ever happened for me.

Quote from: Kira on May 27, 2007, 10:29:34 PM
I am wondering, how do most MtF's achieve the breast size they desire?  Do most get actual implants or do they use herbs?  I have wanted, and desire breasts and have began to consider breast implants.  Is this the best or are there other alternatives that aren't quite so risky?

I can't get any kind of breast size or shape. I've been on hormones a long time, about 7 years. My breasts don't even successfully fill an A cup, so there's no point in wearing a bra. They also don't have the right female shape and look more pear drop shape as apposed to a round shape. My nipples also haven't developed much either and look like male nipples. They are slowly improving but it's taken a very long time.

I have got a breast operation booked in and I would have love to develop my own breasts but it's not happening. I've tried a lot of different things over the years but nothing really works. My friend is the same age and height as me and she also had to have a boob job.

People with endomophic bodyshapes stand a better chance but I think the true limitations of hormones should be more widely explained. Individials vary but the majority do not gain the same kind of breast tissue as a genetic female.

Berliegh, I don't doubt your difficulty to get even the  breast size you've got.
But, saying that most won't reach their genetic potential is totally unproved my anyone.
Even anecdotes are all over the place.

I've got more than my sister, and will get more than my mother had when she was young very soon.
In fact, in my whole family tree and cousins, etc, there's nobody with more than a D cup (only 2 D out of more than 60 women, there's a very good chance I'll reach it).

The only know fact is that generally it takes longer to devellop than GG's if you've got the same E level because of declining human growth hormone levels (not everybody declines the same way, some barely decline at all). A normal pubescent girl can take 7 years to have fully grown breasts (though most of it happens with 3 years).

Just imagine if your HGH is half that of a teen and keep the estrogen level the same, the result will be that it will take 14 years to reach your full genetic potential. What if your genetic potential was to be an A or a small B (a very large number of GG's are that size), well then you can end up after 7 years with less than a A cup. Finally, breast gland doesn't devellop in proportion to your body size, so on top of all I've said before, someone with a big frame will wind up with breasts that are proportionally smaller than if that person had got the hormones at puberty with a smaller frame.

So, all those factors put together means that TS with larger frames will not get proportionate breasts even if they wait a long time. Other TS, who have small genetic breasts, a small frame and low HGH will take so long to devellop even to their genetic potential that their patience will run out. Those with larger genetic breast and low HGH, may or may not have the patience to wait out their full devellopment, they get implants and often get more devellopment on top of that (making them top heavy).

Finally, those with a higher HGH, a smaller frame, are in the same boat as GG's, they may end up with small or big breasts and after 2 years may elect to augment them.


Its possible to partially compensate lower HGH levels by pushing estrogen levels higher, but there is a diminsihing return to this because of the increasing risk of DVT (especialy in the older TS which would most profit from this) and the fact that doubling E doesn't come close to doubling results

Quote from: Nigella on June 27, 2007, 04:52:30 AM
Hi all,

Just put my pennyworth in. As some of you know only just started attending a clinic here but started with herbs six months ago. I am past 38A and almost a B. I am 133lbs and 5ft 6inch. I love them. I just wonder what will happen when on HRT, OMG, lol.

Hugs and kisses

Nigella

I never heard of anyone getting breast growth from herbs....what kind of herbs are they? they must have eostrogen in them somewhere but I don't think you can buy anything like that at the health food shop like Holland and Barrett...

Quote from: Nigella on June 27, 2007, 07:09:46 AM
Hi Berliegh,

Got your message, its true for me, holland and Barrett, black cohash and fenugreek, one each three times a day they are phytoestrogen's I think that's the word. Of course I may be androgynous or low testosterone I don't know, everyone is different and no one else I have spoken to have had results like that so there must be something else genetic going on I think.

Hugs and Kisses

Nigella

I honestly tried that stuff years ago in the early 1990's and it had no effect on me at all......the dosage of oestrogen if there is any would be very small....I also had an extreamely low testo reading before I took hormones....

Mybe you have strong willpower and belief.....maybe I'm too cynical...lol

First off, I'd like to know how many that posted here are living full time and those that are not are you having any problems conceling the fact that you have developing breasts.

Is it best to be on either hormones or estrogen for a while before having implants done?

Two years ago I had started taking menapuase tablets, which has a very lose dose of estrogen in it, and just the other day when I was leaning over a counter, my friend asked me about my cleavage and if I used tape. I told her that it was just me.

Jodieblonde, I thought that your post was interesting. So just by taking a dose of estrogen for a certain amount of time, your breatss grew and without a T-blocker. That was one thing that I was worried about when I was taking the menapause tablets. Without a t-blocker I figured that they would work slower. Glad to hear that you got rid of the migraines.

Hey Robin, looks like everything has been going well for you. Perhaps if I were to have an orchi done, I could eliminate my testosterone problem. :icon_chainsaw:

Gina  :icon_dance:

Quote from: Nigella on June 27, 2007, 07:09:46 AM
Hi Berliegh,

Got your message, its true for me, holland and Barrett, black cohash and fenugreek, one each three times a day they are phytoestrogen's I think that's the word. Of course I may be androgynous or low testosterone I don't know, everyone is different and no one else I have spoken to have had results like that so there must be something else genetic going on I think.

Hugs and Kisses

Nigella

Actually, Black Cohash has been found to NOT be a phytoestrogen. It seems to have a blocking effect on the pain of PMS with some residual effect on the actual cramping and discomfort of menstrual pains associated with the contractions of the uterus at that time. Any effects that might happen are probably placebo in cause if one thinks they are consuming a plant estrogen.

A very good neighbor who is a pharmacist says there might be a drug interaction with other chemicals and herbs that although unlisted, are at best coincidental and non-reproduceable in laboratory tests.

OK...Fenugreek IS a phytoestrogen, and in use WITH Black Cohash, MIGHT have some (in your case) desirable effects, although you'd have to be very receptive to such minor ingestions of a very weak plant hormone.

Think of it this way: If you take aspirin for a headache, as good as aspirin is for such things, and you back the aspirin with a good strong cup of coffee, then you'd get a much more powerful headache control duality going here. Actually, aspirin and caffeine were the drug-of-the-day in the US Navy for hangovers..they called it an APC, or Excedrin-like with a lot more kidney and liver distress. It has been removed from the Navy medical lockers for many years for that reason.

There is another person I know who uses a different combination of phytoestrogens for their maintenance regime.  Saw Palmetto has T-blocking capacities, but in overdose is odd in that is causes diarrhea and very green stools..spinach-colored! (Sorry for the mental graphic) Adding something like this as is normally used for a PMS-easer may create some hormonal changes, but the doses would have to be very high, and the cost of herbals for the effect they achieve is just not really worth the expense.

There are some who will differ with this evaluation, but if they say they get results from these poultices and appellatives, then they are in a decided minority. That's the beauty of medicine...it is not an exact science and is still called a "practice" until they get it right!

Personally, I got very good...no..make that surprising results from the small regimen I had taken, and all the time my T-levels were normal for a natal male..I fathered five children and had a great libido too. I still have a decent T-level...and at my age, it's normal for my age, for the age I am, that is.

You've gotta remember that I wasn't trying to grow breasts..this was a treatment for migraines..just that I got some really nice 38C side-effects. I'll make another exciting post about my adventures in life as a child in skirts and slacks....wondering if I should move to a different area for those posts as they aren't so much an introduction any more..but a continuing story?

I also have some interesting photos that were hidden for a long long time from me, my sister having recently dribbled a few of them my way after she scans and e-mails them to me in ones and twos.

As to the "full-timers" verses "part-timers", I guess I am a full-timer at what lifestyle I live. I don't x-dress, but I do wear breast supports (read: bras and bikini tops) for the size to which I have grown produces a lot of pain at the end of the day if I don't harness them.

Quote from: gina_taylor on June 28, 2007, 09:31:13 AM
First off, I'd like to know how many that posted here are living full time and those that are not are you having any problems conceling the fact that you have developing breasts.

Is it best to be on either hormones or estrogen for a while before having implants done?

I've been full-time since 2002.  Yes, you want to be sure they have finished growing before getting implants.

I have always had some breast development, enough to fit within the medical criteria for gynocomastia.  I also spent a couple of years taking herbal suppliments and got modest results.  With HRT, I have gotten excellent results.  The main difference between herbals and HRT, other than quantity, is that herbals only deposit fat, not build breast structure.

Quote from: Lisbeth on June 28, 2007, 11:27:40 AM

Quote from: gina_taylor on June 28, 2007, 09:31:13 AM
First off, I'd like to know how many that posted here are living full time and those that are not are you having any problems conceling the fact that you have developing breasts.

Is it best to be on either hormones or estrogen for a while before having implants done?

I've been full-time since 2002.  Yes, you want to be sure they have finished growing before getting implants.

I have always had some breast development, enough to fit within the medical criteria for gynocomastia.  I also spent a couple of years taking herbal suppliments and got modest results.  With HRT, I have gotten excellent results.  The main difference between herbals and HRT, other than quantity, is that herbals only deposit fat, not build breast structure.

me too been on hormones since before 2002 and my breasts are not even an A cup! Implants are my only hope....

Quote from: gina_taylor on June 28, 2007, 09:31:13 AM
First off, I'd like to know how many that posted here are living full time and those that are not are you having any problems conceling the fact that you have developing breasts.

I'm only at a 36A now after 10 months HRT, but a few coworkers started noticing things at around 3-5 months anyway. I didn't bind (I feared the outline would be noticed), I just wore baggy shirts. But I'm kinda thin, so any fat up there was just too obvious and out of place. And the crazy nipples went erect within a week and stayed that way... which was more difficult to hide than the actual growth.

~Kate~

Quote from: JodieBlonde on June 28, 2007, 11:25:48 AM

Quote from: Nigella on June 27, 2007, 07:09:46 AM

As to the "full-timers" verses "part-timers", I guess I am a full-timer at what lifestyle I live. I don't x-dress, but I do wear breast supports (read: bras and bikini tops) for the size to which I have grown produces a lot of pain at the end of the day if I don't harness them.

Hi Berliegh, thank you for answering my question. So technically you don't x-dress as a woman but do live full time for whatever lifetsyle you've choosen. The reason I ask, is like I asked in my opening post is how many have breast development and are still living their lives as male. Do poeple look at you strangely because they see the breast development? As for me, when I start showing breast development, that is when I'd start living full time. My x-girlfriend wore a 36 C size bra, and I had notivced that when she removed her bra, her breasts did hang a bit, so I can understand the need to harness your breasts to avoid further pain. I guess everyone develops at a different stage more say due to our bodies. My mom and sisters all wear a 38 B size bra, so I figure that if anything I should be there as well.


Thanks Lisbeth for the advice on letting my breasts develop before getting implants. In the five years yours has been developing  pretty steadily.

That's interesting Kate. it kind of goes back to my previous question. Glad to hear that your co-workers aren't hasselling you.

Gina  :icon_dance:

Quote from: gina_taylor on June 30, 2007, 06:30:45 AM
Hi Berliegh, thank you for answering my question. So technically you don't x-dress as a woman but do live full time for whatever lifetsyle you've choosen. The reason I ask, is like I asked in my opening post is how many have breast development and are still living their lives as male. Do poeple look at you strangely because they see the breast development? As for me, when I start showing breast development, that is when I'd start living full time. My x-girlfriend wore a 36 C size bra, and I had notivced that when she removed her bra, her breasts did hang a bit, so I can understand the need to harness your breasts to avoid further pain. I guess everyone develops at a different stage more say due to our bodies. My mom and sisters all wear a 38 B size bra, so I figure that if anything I should be there as well.


Thanks Lisbeth for the advice on letting my breasts develop before getting implants. In the five years yours has been developing  pretty steadily.

That's interesting Kate. it kind of goes back to my previous question. Glad to hear that your co-workers aren't hasselling you.

Gina  :icon_dance

Gina, I think you have me mixed up with someone else. I am a long term full time female. I have never lived as a male and don't ever intend to either......no one has ever looked at me strangely but I do wish I had much bigger boobs. I have been hormones for 7 years and still only an A cup. I have a boob job lined up which should give me more confidence..

Quote from: Berliegh on June 28, 2007, 12:08:43 PM

Quote from: Lisbeth on June 28, 2007, 11:27:40 AM
I've been full-time since 2002.  Yes, you want to be sure they have finished growing before getting implants.

I have always had some breast development, enough to fit within the medical criteria for gynocomastia.  I also spent a couple of years taking herbal suppliments and got modest results.  With HRT, I have gotten excellent results.  The main difference between herbals and HRT, other than quantity, is that herbals only deposit fat, not build breast structure.

me too been on hormones since before 2002 and my breasts are not even an A cup! Implants are my only hope....

Our stories aren't quite the same.  I've been full-time since 2002, but only on HRT for 2 years.  I happily fill my B cups.

Quote from: Lisbeth on July 01, 2007, 07:56:59 PM
Our stories aren't quite the same.  I've been full-time since 2002, but only on HRT for 2 years.  I happily fill my B cups.

No not the same, you have been lucky with your breast growth mine hasn't developed much in the 7 years of hormones and anti - androgens which is quite distressing at times. I've tried just about everything in that time and I'm now looking at boob jobs..

Ooh, implants. The stuff of dreams. If only I could have a big bag of artificial stuff inside my chest... something that could seep out and infect me! God, ladies. Breasts are not everything. A vagina is not everything. What is? Being an individual!

Being an individual?

Like the emo kids? Or the goths right?

Because its sooooo easy to be unique.

:D

Quote from: DeanO on July 02, 2007, 08:47:58 PM
Ooh, implants. The stuff of dreams. If only I could have a big bag of artificial stuff inside my chest... something that could seep out and infect me! God, ladies. Breasts are not everything. A vagina is not everything. What is? Being an individual!

That's a crass comment to make. I don't think anyone wants to have breast implants as a choice and I too don't feel happy about it. But when you are female (no matter if it's genetic or not) and flat chested it's not a lot of fun and can be embarrising. Dean O You don't come accross as a person suffering from gender dysphoria, so you opinions, understanding and feelings will not be the same as ours.

Quote from: Tink on May 27, 2007, 11:08:55 PM
Through the double S treatment!  ;)  Oh, by double S treatment, I mean:
SS = Silcone or Saline.  Yeah, some of us do not develop anything at all despite the massive dosages of hormones, so our only option is to get help from the breast fairy.
tink :icon_chick:

I'm taking the Double "S" treatment too.  I'm going to be seeing the breast fairy soon.  Too bad she doesn't make house calls!

(Saline)-Sandy

Quote from: Berliegh on July 02, 2007, 03:05:45 AM

Quote from: Lisbeth on July 01, 2007, 07:56:59 PM
Our stories aren't quite the same.  I've been full-time since 2002, but only on HRT for 2 years.  I happily fill my B cups.

No not the same, you have been lucky with your breast growth mine hasn't developed much in the 7 years of hormones and anti - androgens which is quite distressing at times. I've tried just about everything in that time and I'm now looking at boob jobs..

I understand how you feel about it.  I still wish mine were bigger, but there is a certain satisfaction in having them just big enough that they don't cause people to notice.  They're big enough that people automaticly assume I'm female, but not so big that I get unwanted attention from males.  I don't feel any need for augmentation the way they are now, and they have at least 5 more years of growing ahead of them.

I keep feeling the temptation for implants... but would really prefer to skip it. I started HRT 1 year and 3 months ago, at the age of 46. I started with a very low dose for the first several months, but it has gradually been ramped up to my current level. I have nicely-shaped breasts, or rather they would look perfect on a midget woman's body. Enough to be obvious when I wear a tight knit shirt... but still not quite able to fill an A cup. Too back they have this huge ribcage as a backdrop.

For a year before HRT, I tried to maximize my phytoestrogen. I was living on soy foods for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and dessert, every day. I was vegan at the time. I loaded up all my food with ground flaxseed, every day, and poured flaxseed oil over everything (known to painters as linseed oil--I smelled like an artist's studio). The herbs I loaded up on every day were Tang-Kuei (also called Dong Quai) and Red Clover.

Result: After one year I found hard little buds behind my nipples, about the size of baby peas or grape pips. Essentially nothing visible from the outside, though I tried to think that I was showing a hint of gynecomastia. However, my girlfriend had slipped me a couple of her E pills during that time, which may account for the miniscule growth I did get.

After I started HRT, I laid off the phytoestrogens, no more flax, no more veganism (I'm ovo-lacto vegetarian again), no more of those herbs, lest the weak estrogens block the good one. Nothing but HRT produced actual breast growth.

Given that black cohosh is not actually estrogenic, I would like to know what worked for you so well, Nigella. (Nigella is an herb too, used in traditional Middle Eastern medicine.)

Fenugreek, you might have something there--it has been used for centuries to stimulate milk production in nursing mothers. The Arabic name for fenugreek is hulbah, related to the word for milk, halib. Teaching myself herbalism, I once experimented with fenugreek for other reasons, but the stuff affects body odor so strongly I did not want to continue. Maybe it should be renamed fenu-REEK.

James A. Duke's herbalist book The Green Pharmacy has a chapter on herbs to promote breast enlargement. He recommends Red Clover, and said some wild clover has so much phytoestrogen it has been known to cause spontaneous abortions in pregnant cows who graze on it. Wow, that sounds like a lot of E for one plant. Duke endorses fenu-REEK too... he offered a formula he calls "Bustea" using mainly fenugreek sprouts, plus anise, basil, caraway, dill, fennel, licorice, marjoram, and lemongrass. He remarks: "Fennel contains phytoestrogens, plant chemicals similar to the female hormone estrogen. Folklore maintains that the other herbs in this tea can also help enlarge the breasts."

Other herbs Duke suggested for growing boobs are saw palmetto, wild yam, and cumin. He was skeptical, because wild yam doesn't have much phyto-E. He quoted another herbalist named Susun Weed who recommended it. Actually, I think the point was that wild yam contains some sort of progesterone, which Duke apparently wasn't aware of. You know there is now wild yam progesterone cream for breast growth.

I'd prefer not to get implants, but if my body image isn't substantially improve by the breast growth I do get they might be necessary.

I honestly think though that just having some kind of breasts, even "itty bitty titties" will make me feel a lot better.

I wonder sometimes if transgendered people don't have a greater interest in their breasts than the female populous as a whole. While breasts are a very great signifier of femininity and associated with feminine sexuality, femininity is certainly more than the things hanging from your chest. A huge percentage of women have quite small breasts. I did a little lay study on this awhile back and decided it's not hard to be feminine and glamorous with so much as pimple on your chest. Pick up any high fashion magazine and flip through it. Very rarely do you see images where the model's breasts characterize their femininity. You see emphasis on hair, clothes, accessories, and so forth. In my experience, if you dress right, it breast size can be of little importance. Think about it, ladies. I wrote a little blog on this awhile back (see link).

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-06V_c4Q9YrRaJN3oQXVCRA--?cq=1 (http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-06V_c4Q9YrRaJN3oQXVCRA--?cq=1)

Quote from: Lyric on July 09, 2007, 09:44:39 AM
I wonder sometimes if transgendered people don't have a greater interest in their breasts than the female populous as a whole. While breasts are a very great signifier of femininity and associated with feminine sexuality, femininity is certainly more than the things hanging from your chest. A huge percentage of women have quite small breasts

I suggest you go ask some of those small-breasted women how they feel about it.  Most of the ones I've met have obsessed about it just as much was we do.

Quote from: Lisbeth on July 09, 2007, 11:39:15 AM

Quote from: Lyric on July 09, 2007, 09:44:39 AM
I wonder sometimes if transgendered people don't have a greater interest in their breasts than the female populous as a whole. While breasts are a very great signifier of femininity and associated with feminine sexuality, femininity is certainly more than the things hanging from your chest. A huge percentage of women have quite small breasts

I suggest you go ask some of those small-breasted women how they feel about it.  Most of the ones I've met have obsessed about it just as much was we do.

I noticed that two. A lot of these women generally get mocked by their peers for having smaller breasts too, generally aggravating the resentment and self esteem damage.

Hi ! I'm new here and I'm sorry for bringing this topic to surface again. Newbies! what do ya expect! he,he  :D
I just turned 47 and started hormones 7 months ago. Keira was talking about something that interested me.  She had mentioned that low HGH levels in us older folk, :) slows down developement.
I was wondering If taking growth hormone releasers combined with the estrogen would help?  You can get these at any health food store and they claim that it can reverse some of the aging process.

Quote from: Karla B on July 18, 2007, 10:39:21 AM
Hi ! I'm new here and I'm sorry for bringing this topic to surface again. Newbies! what do ya expect! he,he  :D
I just turned 47 and started hormones 7 months ago. Keira was talking about something that interested me.  She had mentioned that low HGH levels in us older folk, :) slows down developement.
I was wondering If taking growth hormone releasers combined with the estrogen would help?  You can get these at any health food store and they claim that it can reverse some of the aging process.

I would definately suggest talking to a doctor about that. Although I can't be sure, I thought that too much human growth hormone at certain ages can be very very dangerous.

Quote from: Sophia on July 18, 2007, 07:01:39 PM

Quote from: Karla B on July 18, 2007, 10:39:21 AM
Hi ! I'm new here and I'm sorry for bringing this topic to surface again. Newbies! what do ya expect! he,he  :D
I just turned 47 and started hormones 7 months ago. Keira was talking about something that interested me.  She had mentioned that low HGH levels in us older folk, :) slows down developement.
I was wondering If taking growth hormone releasers combined with the estrogen would help?  You can get these at any health food store and they claim that it can reverse some of the aging process.

I would definately suggest talking to a doctor about that. Although I can't be sure, I thought that too much human growth hormone at certain ages can be very very dangerous.

I've heard this idea before regarding growth hormones.....I've been on HRT and anti - androgens for nearly 7 years and cannot achieve any proper breast growth.......is this common?........anyway I have a breast operation booked soon but would prefer to be able to grow my own.......has anyone any suggestions?

I've heard this idea before regarding growth hormones.....I've been on HRT and anti - androgens for nearly 7 years and cannot achieve any proper breast growth.......is this common?........anyway I have a breast operation booked soon but would prefer to be able to grow my own.......has anyone any suggestions?
[/quote]
Hi Berliegh
I don't really have any suggestions because I'm looking into this myself. I do believe that nutrition can play a large part in developement and I'm trying to gather up some information about this. Example; I have read some reports that certain Amino Acids can release your "bodys own" growth hormones.
An Amino Acid called Lysine can enhance the effect of an anti-Androgen like Propecia.
Another Amino acid called L Tyrosine can enhance moods and aid in the production of thyroid hormones.

What I feel helps me is, taking a break from the hormones once and a while, like one week off, four weeks on . Taking them day after day after day for a long period,I believe that our bodys can get used to the hormones, which can cause them to be less effective. So what happens is your prescription gets changed or you're put on a higher dose.
Besides that, it also gives the liver a bit of a break.
I have heard of other people using this methode and claim that it works quite well.
Then again, This is only my oppinion based on the information that I've  gathered and what I feel works for me.
I do take the L tyrosine and Lysine as supplements and try to stick to good nutritious meals containing enough protien, whole grains and good fats like canola, safflower and olive oils on salads.

Taking a break does nothing, the reason you've got growth went you start back is because you've started losing a bit when E stopped.

Growth hormones do influence breast growth speed (but not final result), but since growth hormone's effect is system, its not something you want to take as a supplement (bodybuilders take them and they wind up looking like cro-magnons because the face bones grew faster).

Not sure about lysine or whatever's effect on growth hormone, my feeling is that its level is predetermined by heredity and there's not much that can be done to change its initial level and its decline speed.

The bottom line is I want to avoid this breast operation I have coming up and try and make some kind of fast effort to get my own breast growth sufficiently to not need a boob job..

Quote from: morticia on July 31, 2007, 04:35:06 AM
I started out on various herbals and got definite results.  Then a GG turned me on to Bovine Ovary and I've been taking that now instead of the PE's.  I supplement the BO with Saw Palmetto which is an Anti-Androgen and several very strong cups of pure spearmint tea which is also an AA and has been documented to reduce body hair on GG's..

In 7 months my body has feminized a good deal.  I have no sharp lines, no muscles, nothing about my body resembles a male body anymore excluding the plumbing.  From the neck down, I'm very much female in appearance.  But I still have a way to go.  But things ARE improving day by day and I'm very, very pleased..

My boobs are without any shadow of a doubt female breasts.  The past few weeks I've noticed a sudden growth spurt, my legs look VERY feminine now and my boobs are starting to plump up.  They have been very conical in shape for a long time until just recently when this little spurt of growth kicked in.  Right now they are just under a B cup and predict that if they continue to develope at the current rate I'll be a B+ before the year is out.  I see no reason I can't hit a C cup by Jan 09 which will be two years.  Even now though, they are to the point where they noticeable through my thick tshirt.

I'm very pleased with the results I've achieved through herbals and bovine ovary.  FOR ME, it works and it works well.
I guess that in MY case, I'm just lucky that my body responds so well to this stuff..
For others, YMMV...

I have been on HRT and anti - androgens for 7 years.......herbals, I've tried them as well......but still no acceptable female looking breast growth..

Quote from: morticia on July 31, 2007, 04:53:50 AM

Quote from: Berliegh on July 31, 2007, 04:43:48 AM


I have been on HRT and anti - androgens for 7 years.......herbals, I've tried them as well......but still no acceptable female looking breast growth..

:(  Gosh, that's got to be frustrating as hell.  I assume you've had like some sort of endo analysis done?
There must be something that will jump start your motor..
What about those suction things, I think it's called the Brava.  I thought about that myself.  I also saw some
suction rigs you can buy on ebay that would do the same thing as the Brava but a heck of a lot cheaper, just not as classy.
Gosh I hope you can find a solution!  (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftgchix.dyndns.org%2Ffairy.gif&hash=8f283a91ae04e60f6f47a5d485aef29eae2b5bdc)

By a certain age your receptors don't work and hormones are not going to work very well on someone over 30 who is already fully deveoped. I wish there was a way to gain some kind of development for me. It is frustrating considering how long term I've been.

I've seen a few endocrinologists and the suggestions from them usually produce a worse effect. One endo suggested Goserlarin (Zoladex) which had a reversal effect on me and progynova which made me violently sick. Most suggestions from endo's are worse than my own...

I hear you need progesterone to achieve fuller breast development. I want to try it but the W-W Clinic transgender program has a policy of not giving it, I'd be on my own, ordering black-market stuff online, and it's an expensive habit. But I would rather have that than surgery!

A local health-food store sells OTC Wild Yam progesterone cream for breast development. I wonder if it would have any effect on me? I began HRT last year at the age of 46, and while my breasts look pretty, they're still way small. I need to find out what levels of progesterone would do me good, and if such is available in Wild Yam cream.

If progynova made you sick, it must be the delivery mechanism, not the estrogen, unless you were getting a higher dose and you body wasn't used to that. Many are allergic to the dye in the 2mg tablet, I think the 1mg has a different dye. Have you tried injections?

Wild yam cream, forget about it, though there are real "progesterone USP" over the counter creams that are reputed to work (available in the US, not sure elsewhere).

For progesterone, you can start later if you want to save money and have better results (since it conteracts with estrogen); usual time to start is about 6 months.

Quote from: Keira on July 31, 2007, 11:35:37 AM
usual time to start is about 6 months.

My doctor said two years.  Which for me is in about a month and a half.

I tried something similar to what the site below says to try. When you get to the site scroll down the the section about lactating. Your breast will swell, and hopfully retain some shape.
http://www.sandimari.com/nipples_breasts.htm

When I was growing up all of my girlfriends always said if you let someone massage your chest they will get bigger. I have no idea if there is any truth to that or not, but beleive me I tried.

Deb

Quote from: Sophia on July 09, 2007, 08:23:54 PM

Quote from: Lisbeth on July 09, 2007, 11:39:15 AM

Quote from: Lyric on July 09, 2007, 09:44:39 AM
I wonder sometimes if transgendered people don't have a greater interest in their breasts than the female populous as a whole. While breasts are a very great signifier of femininity and associated with feminine sexuality, femininity is certainly more than the things hanging from your chest. A huge percentage of women have quite small breasts

I suggest you go ask some of those small-breasted women how they feel about it.  Most of the ones I've met have obsessed about it just as much was we do.

I noticed that two. A lot of these women generally get mocked by their peers for having smaller breasts too, generally aggravating the resentment and self esteem damage.

Yep, you might be surprised that we are not at all that different from GGs in regards to feelings about ourselves.  Many of them love reveling in their femininity and resent being thought of as masculine just as much as we do.  How do I know this?  Well, since I'm almost completely stealth in my life (except at work, with my GF, or online) I am around GGs a lot and they're not afraid to express how they feel about this subject.  It's actually pretty amazing how much gender differences comes up in daily life with non-TG people in their conversations (I hadn't paid attention to it as much before transition).   It's actually no wonder we become so dysphoric when our perceived gender is constantly being brought up. 

I can tell you though that for me, once I went fulltime in my correct gender, these gender differences actually now cause euphoria.  In my musical rehearsals, these issues come up even more often due to the nature of men's and women's singing sections being different.  I had a woman last night next to me pointing out how the men tend to spread away from each other and the women cluster together.  Then she said "They're just afraid they'll get cooties if they get to close to each other." to which I laughed.  She responded "Well, it's true.", which I knew it was.  It was just funny (and wonderfully ironic) having a GG explain how men work to me.

Sorry for rambling, but my point is that despite how much more you think the transgender population focus on gender, the non-TG population focuses on it almost just as much.

Quote from: Melissa on July 31, 2007, 12:14:50 PM
Sorry for rambling, but my point is that despite how much more you think the transgender population focus on gender, the non-TG population focuses on it almost just as much.

Quoted for truth. One of the most profound things I've read on this board.

Dennis

If your E dose is low, waiting to start progesterone 2 years is better because you'll not conteract your E. With a higher E dose, its less critical but you still need breast tissue so it makes any sense at all to use it.

Also, if you've got little breast projection, starting progesterone is useless in general (say A cup an below); progesterone needs breast tissue to work with, it doesn't improve projection, just the lateral size of the breast.

In GG, progesterone kicks in when the menses start, which is several years, two, after breast growth start. So, if we follow this lead, starting late doesn't make any difference.

Quote from: Melissa on July 31, 2007, 12:14:50 PM

Quote from: Sophia on July 09, 2007, 08:23:54 PM

Quote from: Lisbeth on July 09, 2007, 11:39:15 AM

Quote from: Lyric on July 09, 2007, 09:44:39 AM
I wonder sometimes if transgendered people don't have a greater interest in their breasts than the female populous as a whole. While breasts are a very great signifier of femininity and associated with feminine sexuality, femininity is certainly more than the things hanging from your chest. A huge percentage of women have quite small breasts

I suggest you go ask some of those small-breasted women how they feel about it.  Most of the ones I've met have obsessed about it just as much was we do.

I noticed that two. A lot of these women generally get mocked by their peers for having smaller breasts too, generally aggravating the resentment and self esteem damage.

Yep, you might be surprised that we are not at all that different from GGs in regards to feelings about ourselves.  Many of them love reveling in their femininity and resent being thought of as masculine just as much as we do.  How do I know this?  Well, since I'm almost completely stealth in my life (except at work, with my GF, or online) I am around GGs a lot and they're not afraid to express how they feel about this subject. 
Sorry for rambling, but my point is that despite how much more you think the transgender population focus on gender, the non-TG population focuses on it almost just as much.

Too true. Women are more obsessed with breasts than men are. By far the biggest thing women judge other women on is how nice and big her tits are.  As if the smaller or more unattractive the tits, the less womanly she is.
And as Lisbeth said, small breasted women are the most obsessed. If they're small breasted or perceive themselves to be, they're constantly self-conscious if their blouse looks too loose and get depsressed every time they see a woman with great tits (I know this firsthand, because I had/have 'great tits' ::)). And exclaim that they're jealous, or her 'great tits' can't possibly be her own.
GGs are obsessed with tits. Can't even watch TV without them expressing annoyance that there's a topless woman with 'great tits' on the show.
And so many of them get BAs.
No, you girls aren't any more obsessed than the average GG.

I definitely feel inadequate whenever I am out... I constantly compare my itty-bitties with the ones I see everywhere.  Super-stuffing my bra makes me feel a bit better though until they fill out though, I haven't been on hormones very long.

Quote from: Melissa on July 31, 2007, 12:14:50 PM

Quote from: Sophia on July 09, 2007, 08:23:54 PM
I noticed that too. A lot of these women generally get mocked by their peers for having smaller breasts too, generally aggravating the resentment and self esteem damage.

Yep, you might be surprised that we are not at all that different from GGs in regards to feelings about ourselves.  Many of them love reveling in their femininity and resent being thought of as masculine just as much as we do.  How do I know this?  Well, since I'm almost completely stealth in my life (except at work, with my GF, or online) I am around GGs a lot and they're not afraid to express how they feel about this subject.  It's actually pretty amazing how much gender differences comes up in daily life with non-TG people in their conversations (I hadn't paid attention to it as much before transition).   It's actually no wonder we become so dysphoric when our perceived gender is constantly being brought up. 

I'm not all that surprised. A woman who's told she has masculine traits or a man that's told he has feminine traits tends to feel less attractive and less like themselves. I see it happen all the time. Guys responding almost violently to being told they have little girly wrists and women getting really pissed and upset about being told they have "man chin". All it takes is a little bit of observation and you can see that really cisgendered people act just like we do, they just have the good luck of having bodies that for the most part match their gender fully.

So the comparisons to other genders is not as rough for them because they have some assurance at least that those comparisons are wrong. Whereas we've had it pounded into us that we look like the gender we know we aren't because people assume that its making us feel better by "reaffirming our masculinity" for us (and the opposite for ftms). They don't realize that they just make us feel worse.

Quote from: Melissa on July 31, 2007, 12:14:50 PM
I can tell you though that for me, once I went fulltime in my correct gender, these gender differences actually now cause euphoria.  In my musical rehearsals, these issues come up even more often due to the nature of men's and women's singing sections being different.  I had a woman last night next to me pointing out how the men tend to spread away from each other and the women cluster together.  Then she said "They're just afraid they'll get cooties if they get to close to each other." to which I laughed.  She responded "Well, it's true.", which I knew it was.  It was just funny (and wonderfully ironic) having a GG explain how men work to me.

lol

Quote
Sorry for rambling, but my point is that despite how much more you think the transgender population focus on gender, the non-TG population focuses on it almost just as much.

I definately agree.

Posted on: July 31, 2007, 03:01:09 PM

---

Quote from: Nero on July 31, 2007, 02:16:41 PM
Too true. Women are more obsessed with breasts than men are. By far the biggest thing women judge other women on is how nice and big her tits are.  As if the smaller or more unattractive the tits, the less womanly she is.
And as Lisbeth said, small breasted women are the most obsessed. If they're small breasted or perceive themselves to be, they're constantly self-conscious if their blouse looks too loose and get depsressed every time they see a woman with great tits (I know this firsthand, because I had/have 'great tits' ::)). And exclaim that they're jealous, or her 'great tits' can't possibly be her own.
GGs are obsessed with tits. Can't even watch TV without them expressing annoyance that there's a topless woman with 'great tits' on the show.
And so many of them get BAs.
No, you girls aren't any more obsessed than the average GG.

Almost makes me wonder, if I don't obsess over my own breasts' size and act all jealous if other girls will think something is wrong with me.

;)

Quote from: Sophia on July 31, 2007, 03:08:49 PM
So the comparisons to other genders is not as rough for them because they have some assurance at least that those comparisons are wrong. Whereas we've had it pounded into us that we look like the gender we know we aren't because people assume that its making us feel better by "reaffirming our masculinity" for us (and the opposite for ftms). They don't realize that they just make us feel worse.

I'm trying to understand what you mean here.  I'll assume you are saying that it's not as difficult for a GG to have a masculine feature pointed out as it is for a TS woman to have a masculine feature pointed out.  I wouldn't be so fast to jump to that conclusion.  If the GG really did have a masculine feature, it would hurt her just as much--especially if she were told this over and over again.  As I said before, we really are not as different from GGs as you might think.

I think they call any women who's not overweight, has a bit of muscles and slightly taller boyish.
The funny thing is that those women have a better WHR than their shorter
sisters because most overweight women have a lot of fat around the waist too decreasing their WHR.
They don't look like that because taller women have a greater distance between their hips and their waist than shorter women, so visually they look like they have less hips.

My mother keep telling me I've got no hips when I tell her that I have 38 hips, 28 waist, which is pretty curvy and still she keeps harping on that point!!

Quote from: morticia on July 31, 2007, 03:47:15 PM
I was watching "wedding dress secrets revealed" yesterday on WE and there were all sorts of girls of every shape and size.
There was one girl that was six feet tall.  The woman in charge of the show told the viewers, "And Jane here has a very tall, boyish figure"...  Woa!  I wish I had a boyish figure like hers!  And that wasn't the only girl to be called "boyish"..
Several of the girls were told they had boyish figures.  Wow...  And none of them acted insulted by it.
But how they saw anything "boyish" about them is beyond me.  I would give anything to have their figures.
I thought they looked hot and very feminine.    ???

Ah, ok.  I would describe my face as "boyish" (for a girl), but it's definitely not masculine.  For girls, being "boyish" tends to be acceptable as it is generally a female term, although I still can't yet bring myself around to trying "boy shorts".

Quote from: morticia on July 31, 2007, 03:47:15 PM
Ok. this is making me nuts.  I keep trying to reply to a totally seperate post and this thing keep combining them no matter how hard I try to make seperate posts.  What am I doing wrong here???

That's just the way the forum works.  It's to prevent users from artificially inflating their post count with multiple posts when just 1 post would suffice.

Quote from: Keira on July 31, 2007, 01:48:17 PM

If your E dose is low, waiting to start progesterone 2 years is better because you'll not conteract your E. With a higher E dose, its less critical but you still need breast tissue so it makes any sense at all to use it.

Also, if you've got little breast projection, starting progesterone is useless in general (say A cup an below); progesterone needs breast tissue to work with, it doesn't improve projection, just the lateral size of the breast.

In GG, progesterone kicks in when the menses start, which is several years, two, after breast growth start. So, if we follow this lead, starting late doesn't make any difference.

I'm not sure I understand, Are you saying that the breasts grow better outward using E alone? Then adding progesterone would increase the fullness?
I 've read articles written by some Tg girls claiming that mimicing GGs cycle works very well.
Any thoughts about that?

Quote from: Melissa on July 31, 2007, 03:24:01 PM

Quote from: Sophia on July 31, 2007, 03:08:49 PM
So the comparisons to other genders is not as rough for them because they have some assurance at least that those comparisons are wrong. Whereas we've had it pounded into us that we look like the gender we know we aren't because people assume that its making us feel better by "reaffirming our masculinity" for us (and the opposite for ftms). They don't realize that they just make us feel worse.

I'm trying to understand what you mean here.

Sometimes I don't even know.

:D

Quote from: Melissa on July 31, 2007, 03:24:01 PM
I'll assume you are saying that it's not as difficult for a GG to have a masculine feature pointed out as it is for a TS woman to have a masculine feature pointed out.  I wouldn't be so fast to jump to that conclusion.  If the GG really did have a masculine feature, it would hurt her just as much--especially if she were told this over and over again.  As I said before, we really are not as different from GGs as you might think.

Not so much that its easier to have a masculine feature pointed out, and more that a perfectly feminine GG and a perfectly feminine TS may have slightly different reactions because of the different social exposure. It probably differs with age.

I'm not making any sense am I?

:-\

Quote from: Keira on July 31, 2007, 11:35:37 AMWild yam cream, forget about it, though there are real "progesterone USP" over the counter creams that are reputed to work (available in the US, not sure elsewhere).

Right, I went back to the store today and looked. My memory was off, the progesterone cream I was thinking of was actually the USP variety, there were several brands of it on the shelf, they all said they contain 500mg progesterone per ounce of cream, which works out to about 22mg per application. I don't know if that would do anything for our breasts. In fact, the progesterone creams were promoted for relief of menopausal symptoms, nothing about breasts. The instructions were to rub into areas like wrists (also chest). This wasn't quite what I hoped for... or is it?

Quote from: Sophia on July 31, 2007, 09:36:45 PM
Not so much that its easier to have a masculine feature pointed out, and more that a perfectly feminine GG and a perfectly feminine TS may have slightly different reactions because of the different social exposure. It probably differs with age.

I'm not making any sense am I?

:-\

I think it depends on how much truth there is in a statement.  For instance, if the TS woman is still pre-op and some comment was made on genitalia or perhaps a female history or even periods, that may have a more negative effect on the TS, because there is truth in it.  I think it really depends on the circumstances and the particular thing that was said or asked.  So, I think in some situations you are correct and others may have the same reaction on the person.  Again, it depends on how much truth is in a statement.

Yes, you made more sense in that last statement.

Posted on: August 02, 2007, 10:11:42 AM

---

Quote from: Hypatia on August 02, 2007, 01:20:18 AM
Right, I went back to the store today and looked. My memory was off, the progesterone cream I was thinking of was actually the USP variety, there were several brands of it on the shelf, they all said they contain 500mg progesterone per ounce of cream, which works out to about 22mg per application. I don't know if that would do anything for our breasts. In fact, the progesterone creams were promoted for relief of menopausal symptoms, nothing about breasts. The instructions were to rub into areas like wrists (also chest). This wasn't quite what I hoped for... or is it?

Progesterone helping with breast growth is only supported by anecdotal evidence.  It seems likely that it is the case, but you don't know how the person would have ended up had they not taken the progesterone.

Melissa, progesterone helping with  breast growth is not just anecdotal, there are studies that exist to support it. I'll have to go into the past message archive of the DIY to find them. More and more endo's linked to gender programs are precribing it.

It also has an impact on the skin, nails, hair, ligaments, energy level, libido, appetite, fat distribution and lipid profile (and probably other things I'm forgetting about). So... Not too bad for a useless (sic) hormone.

Since progesterone is needed for the breast to fully devellop its milk making apparatus and is a major reason for increased appetite and fat storage in gynoid regions (the breast being one of them) during pregnancy, it goes to reason that it has a significant impact on the breast!!!

You'd only start lactating if your E level was high enough initially and you cut it say in half. You need E and P and prolactin (which is linked to progesterone but you can also supplement) to get proper lactation. You've also got to stimulate the breast to produce through sucking a substantial length and number of time.

I think breast size is determined mostly by genetics. My understanding is that your mother's breast size will be somewhat close to your final breast size. This spells a problem for some people; either they'll get small breasts or, in my case, their genetics likely will cause their breasts to be too big which is a problem or a blessing depending on your view. I personally don't want to have breasts the size of my head, I don't want to attract any more attention than I do now. The downsize of physical attractiveness is that you get every wierdo and dill pickle wanting to be with you.  :P

Hmmm, that's all very interesting. :)

Apparently not unknown:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_lactation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_lactation)

Dennis

I have this theory that progesterone actually helps with burning fat when trying to lose weight.  That's only based on my own observations on myself though and some stuff I read on the internet, hence it's only a theory and could be wrong.

On the lactating subject, I've recently been starting to lactate a clear liquid from my nipples, one or two drops.  My endo isn't sure what it is and nothing is coming back on my blood work, she said as long as it's clear it should be fine.

A GG friend of mine told me that eating Tofu might help with breast growth and further feminization, because it contains estrogen.  Can anyone verify this for me?

Also, I'm looking at getting breast enhancers for when I go full-time, because right now I'm only about an AA cup, maybe an A cup and I'd like to be a B eventually.  Anyone have suggestions on where I can find a good pair of silicone enhancers?

~Fae

I don't have silicone enhancers, but what I did was take some water-bra pads I found at target, and some "Thank Goodness it Fits" bras from Kohls.  The bra has a opening in the lining on the side that the water-bra pad can be stuffed into.  Adds a lot more size than using the padding normally.  I am also an AA right now and this works fine for me  :)

Of course this limits my clothing choices, but I can live with it until the itty bitties become not so itty bitty.

QuoteA GG friend of mine told me that eating Tofu might help with breast growth and further feminization, because it contains estrogen.  Can anyone verify this for me?

Many years ago I heard that soy products and sweet potatoes enhance the bodies' natural production of estrogen. I don't know if this is true, but I do make sure to eat lots of tofu and sweet potatoes  ;D

zythyra

Red Clover? Can you find that in any form in like a health food store, or better yet a grocery store like Stop N' Shop? ???


I should go to the intro section, this just really caught my eye. Thanks

Quote from: deviousxen on August 04, 2007, 02:37:34 AM
Red Clover? Can you find that in any form in like a health food store, or better yet a grocery store like Stop N' Shop? ???


I should go to the intro section, this just really caught my eye. Thanks

Yes, you're probably better off going to a health food store. There you're most likely to find the herbs. There are alot of herbs that you can't find at the grocery store. Another thing you can try is online.
Just google  herbal supplements  and all kinds of info. will show up.
There ,You'll also find many sites that you can order them from.

Hopefully with my face! I'd look like some weird villanous elf thingy from LOTR or something!

...well...maybe I am just a little villanous (not spelled correctly methinks)

Quote from: Melissa on August 02, 2007, 12:14:09 PM

Quote from: Sophia on July 31, 2007, 09:36:45 PM
Not so much that its easier to have a masculine feature pointed out, and more that a perfectly feminine GG and a perfectly feminine TS may have slightly different reactions because of the different social exposure. It probably differs with age.

I'm not making any sense am I?

:-\

I think it depends on how much truth there is in a statement.  For instance, if the TS woman is still pre-op and some comment was made on genitalia or perhaps a female history or even periods, that may have a more negative effect on the TS, because there is truth in it.  I think it really depends on the circumstances and the particular thing that was said or asked.  So, I think in some situations you are correct and others may have the same reaction on the person.  Again, it depends on how much truth is in a statement.

Yeah probably true.

Quote from: Melissa on August 02, 2007, 12:14:09 PM
Yes, you made more sense in that last statement.

Yay!

Quote from: Kat on August 03, 2007, 10:35:01 PM
I don't have silicone enhancers, but what I did was take some water-bra pads I found at target, and some "Thank Goodness it Fits" bras from Kohls.  The bra has a opening in the lining on the side that the water-bra pad can be stuffed into.  Adds a lot more size than using the padding normally.  I am also an AA right now and this works fine for me  :)

Of course this limits my clothing choices, but I can live with it until the itty bitties become not so itty bitty.

I just ordered a pair of enhancers from JCPenny so I hope they work well.  I like how my breasts are now, but I'd love to be able to fill my B cup bras for school.  ;D

My chest just looks too small because my stomach sticks out a little, so anything up top just doesn't look like much under a tight fitted shirt, unless it's a full B cup.  I need to start exercising...

Quote from: zythyra on August 03, 2007, 11:16:03 PM

QuoteA GG friend of mine told me that eating Tofu might help with breast growth and further feminization, because it contains estrogen.  Can anyone verify this for me?

Many years ago I heard that soy products and sweet potatoes enhance the bodies' natural production of estrogen. I don't know if this is true, but I do make sure to eat lots of tofu and sweet potatoes  ;D

zythyra

Does it help with your feminization at all?

~Fae

QuoteDoes it help with your feminization at all?

Fae,

Perhaps it's helped a little bit, but since other factors are combined, I couldn't tell how much effect they have. At any rate, it certainly doesn't hurt to eat them, and they taste good. Earlier in the thread someone also mentioned red clover, I wonder if purple clover works, our field has plenty of that.

Zythyra

QuotePurple Clover is an alternate name for Red Clover..

Thanks for the info Morticia, I just went out and ate some. The field by our house is full of clover  ;D

Zythyra

Quotesee!  stay away from the bovine ovary!  <moo!>   

<zie munching on clover and hanging head in shame>  :embarrassed:

Cow could you say such a thing?  :o Well, on the udder hand, a grrl has to do what zie has to do  :D

Zythyra

Red clover (Trifolium pratense), is indeed a phytoestrogen.

It is useful for prostate problems, as any estrogen would be for that purpose. 

Red clover was traditionally used to treat asthma, pertussis, cancer, and gout. Results are mixed and totally anecdotal.

"Clinical" results are not a firm basis for belief in- or usage of any drug. Time related trials and years of actual observation in a clinical node are required for any derived results to hold accuracy. Such clinical results are qualified by only needing two or more observed results, and in short are not likely the whole results necessary for the efficacy or usefulness of a drug, essence or therapeutic.

In modern times, isoflavone extracts of red clover are most often used to treat menopausal symptoms, as an alternative hormone replacement therapy, for high cholesterol, or to prevent osteoporosis.

However, at this time, there are no high-quality human studies supporting the use of red clover for any medical condition.

Here's a real caveat, however.....

Based on laboratory studies, red clover may interfere with the way the liver processes some drugs using an enzyme called cytochrome P450 3A4. This is the SAME reaction by the liver caused by grapefruit!

As a result, the levels of these drugs may be increased in the blood, and may cause increased effects or potentially serious adverse reactions. Patients using any medications should check the package insert and speak with a healthcare professional or pharmacist about possible interactions.

First-pass filtering of drugs are part of the prescribed values to most drugs, and if the liver has been turned OFF, then the first-pass results are not enacted and severe overdoes of the prescribed (and un-prescribed too!) may occur.

Be careful!

Just thought you'd like to know.

That amplification of potency from Red Clover seems promising in okay amounts. I doubt I'd wanna take that at the same time as like 50 other phytos though...As for bovine ovary, I wonder what looks I'll get from the health food people at the register. They're gonna know what I'm doing soon enough. :o

Quote from: deviousxen on August 04, 2007, 08:17:44 PM
That amplification of potency from Red Clover seems promising in okay amounts. I doubt I'd wanna take that at the same time as like 50 other phytos though...As for bovine ovary, I wonder what looks I'll get from the health food people at the register. They're gonna know what I'm doing soon enough. :o

So, Does it matter? Most cashiers at health food stores don't even know what the stuff is for. Most herbs have multiple uses,so it's difficult for them to tell what it's for. If I don't order mine on line, I just go to the nearest health food store, Look for what I want, go to the cash, pay for it and leave. No problem. Sometimes they ask,what are you using it for? because I know some of the other uses for these herbs, I pick one and tell them.
example: Uses for Red Clover; fights infection,suppresses appetite, purifies blood,relieves hot flashes,good for coughs,Helps inflamed lungs,good for some skin disorders and helps a weakened imune system. There are  a few more uses for red clover other the ones I had mentioned. An Excellent book to buy to help you understand the uses of herbs and other supplements is; Prescription for Nutritional Healing. The 4th Edition.
I hope this makes you feel a little better about going to buy your herbs.  ;)

Quote from: morticia on August 05, 2007, 01:03:51 AM
Yes this is all true.  But I usually by my stuff in quantity and several things at the same time.
Like I would order 600 capsules of Red Clover, 600 Saw Palmetto, 300 Black Cohosh, etc. all at the same time.
And I reorder the same quantities of it again in a month or two.
So they think I'm peddling the stuff (LOL!) or taking massive doses of it.
Oh well.  I'm starting to not worry about it anymore, I just buy what I want when I need it.
To hell with what they think or know what I'm doing with the stuff.

Yeah! The more someone shows that they're nervous or worried about what they're buying or they're being embarrassed about it, is a dead give away that they're trying to hide something. As long as herbs aren't illegal to buy, They shouldn't have to worry. Besides that, It doesn't matter what you buy at once, the last thing they're gonna think of is, that your buying the stuff to change your sex. ;D

Very true they wouldn't specifically know that! :D

I guess my paranoia is due to the fact I get everything from that health food store... O.o


As for online...I don't exactly want my parents to see something odd one day on the pay pal bill...heheheheehhh....

There's also the bad thought of bouncing my parents account cause we're not exactly in GREAT monies these days...

I should look up black cohosh...


OH YEA! Morticia. I think I found red clovers in a field somewhere. I wonder if they can be grown just in the back yard or something...I fear pesticide though. Meh.

Hi,
I had my srs 2 years ago and now looking to get my breast done as 7 years of hormones have given me not much more than an A cup. My question is can any breasts surgeon perform this on a MtF transsexual. I know that there are some difference in the placement of muscles in the chest which the implant may go under. So do I have to find a surgeon who has done a breast enlargement on a transsexual before or is any experience surgeon ok?
Thank you

I know everyones different to a degree, but whats usually up with dosage? The serving size on these aren't exactly for males who want breast growth. Are there any side effects that are bad if you aren't on anything except phytoestrogens? And does it actually convert testosterone into estrogen? Wouldn't phytoestrogen and estrogen compete?

And what of diet? I've heard alot about people taking these protein shakes and whatnot. I'm pretty much allergic to soy and wheat and milk...hmmm

All things I'm curious about.

All good questions for your Doctor.


Sarah L.

Quote from: Fae on August 03, 2007, 10:14:48 PM
On the lactating subject, I've recently been starting to lactate a clear liquid from my nipples, one or two drops.  My endo isn't sure what it is and nothing is coming back on my blood work, she said as long as it's clear it should be fine.



~Fae

Hi Fae, I have been away so have only just picked up this thread. I too get a clear liquid from my nipples, I have done so for a few years. Its OK and so I have been told. It is because the mamory gland is just a glorified sweat gland. If I get technical GG's can also have this as its part of milk production process. Some women take fenugreek to increase the milk flow as it has an effect on the glands production of liquid.  I am not an expert on this but just thought I'd share my own experience.

hugs and kisses

Nigella

Quote from: Nigella on August 08, 2007, 06:10:02 AM

Quote from: Fae on August 03, 2007, 10:14:48 PM
On the lactating subject, I've recently been starting to lactate a clear liquid from my nipples, one or two drops.  My endo isn't sure what it is and nothing is coming back on my blood work, she said as long as it's clear it should be fine.



~Fae

Hi Fae, I have been away so have only just picked up this thread. I too get a clear liquid from my nipples, I have done so for a few years. Its OK and so I have been told. It is because the mamory gland is just a glorified sweat gland. If I get technical GG's can also have this as its part of milk production process. Some women take fenugreek to increase the milk flow as it has an effect on the glands production of liquid.  I am not an expert on this but just thought I'd share my own experience.

hugs and kisses

Nigella

Thanks Nigella.  I actually think it's a precursor to milk production, but I heard that MTF's can't produce milk without some kind of hormone...progesterone I think.  I'll look into it sometime.  One of my best friends said she'd be willing to let me breast feed her kids when she has them, so I was all excited about that.  Any part of motherhood I can experience is a plus.  ;D

~Fae

I basically was wondering how you guys spaced your dosage with Fenugreek or Saw?

Cause I think its more the spacing than the dose if you're aiming to "reprogram" your hormones like that other site says. Or I guess you could just pump your body full of the stuff. I wonder whats more efficient or true. And No...not for my doctor. That man is a moron. No lie.

I got some "precursor" fluids as well I think. Last night. That was fast!

Quote from: Fae on August 04, 2007, 02:08:04 PM

Quote from: Kat on August 03, 2007, 10:35:01 PM
I don't have silicone enhancers, but what I did was take some water-bra pads I found at target, and some "Thank Goodness it Fits" bras from Kohls.  The bra has a opening in the lining on the side that the water-bra pad can be stuffed into.  Adds a lot more size than using the padding normally.  I am also an AA right now and this works fine for me  :)

Of course this limits my clothing choices, but I can live with it until the itty bitties become not so itty bitty.

I just ordered a pair of enhancers from JCPenny so I hope they work well.  I like how my breasts are now, but I'd love to be able to fill my B cup bras for school.  ;D

My chest just looks too small because my stomach sticks out a little, so anything up top just doesn't look like much under a tight fitted shirt, unless it's a full B cup.  I need to start exercising...

OMG THEY CAME TODAY!!

My enhancers came in, and OMG I feel great!!  I actually have breasts with them on, and they're soo comfortable and they feel real.  They even bounce!!  Needless to say I am one happy, confident, oh-I-feel-sexy-and-desirable, woman!!!  ;D ;D

The pair I got is A/B and it enhances from one-half up to two cups depending on what you have now.  They also come in B/C.  Really not bad for $50 plus shipping and handling:

http://www3.jcpenney.com/jcp/Products.aspx?DeptID=40379&CatID=40410&CatTyp=DEP&ItemTyp=G&GrpTyp=PRD&ItemID=129384d&ProdSeq=1&Cat=accessories&Dep=Lingerie&PCat=Bras&PCatID=40381&RefPage=ProductList&Sale=&ProdCount=13&RecPtr=&ShowMenu=&TTYP=&ShopBy=0&RefPageName=CategoryAll%252Easpx&RefCatID=40381&RefDeptID=40379&Page=1&CmCatId=40379|40381|40410

~Fae

[/quote]

OMG THEY CAME TODAY!!

My enhancers came in, and OMG I feel great!!  I actually have breasts with them on, and they're soo comfortable and they feel real.  They even bounce!!  Needless to say I am one happy, confident, oh-I-feel-sexy-and-desirable, woman!!!  ;D ;D

The pair I got is A/B and it enhances from one-half up to two cups depending on what you have now.  They also come in B/C.  Really not bad for $50 plus shipping and handling:

http://www3.jcpenney.com/jcp/Products.aspx?DeptID=40379&CatID=40410&CatTyp=DEP&ItemTyp=G&GrpTyp=PRD&ItemID=129384d&ProdSeq=1&Cat=accessories&Dep=Lingerie&PCat=Bras&PCatID=40381&RefPage=ProductList&Sale=&ProdCount=13&RecPtr=&ShowMenu=&TTYP=&ShopBy=0&RefPageName=CategoryAll%252Easpx&RefCatID=40381&RefDeptID=40379&Page=1&CmCatId=40379|40381|40410

~Fae
[/quote]

That's great Fae! Just by reading your post,I can feel how happy you are. :icon_dance:

Quote from: missmoo on August 06, 2007, 12:51:10 PM
Hi,
I had my srs 2 years ago and now looking to get my breast done as 7 years of hormones have given me not much more than an A cup. My question is can any breasts surgeon perform this on a MtF transsexual. I know that there are some difference in the placement of muscles in the chest which the implant may go under. So do I have to find a surgeon who has done a breast enlargement on a transsexual before or is any experience surgeon ok?
Thank you

Ditto! I have been on hormones for 7 years and can only get an A cup (who says the camera doesn't lie! just wear the right top) and I now have a breast operation lined up. I am very nervous about it and wish my boobs would grow a bit more on their own.

The surgeon I am seeing has performed breast augmentations on Transsexual's before......

Quote from: Karla B on August 10, 2007, 02:03:51 AM

Quote

OMG THEY CAME TODAY!!

My enhancers came in, and OMG I feel great!!  I actually have breasts with them on, and they're soo comfortable and they feel real.  They even bounce!!  Needless to say I am one happy, confident, oh-I-feel-sexy-and-desirable, woman!!!  ;D ;D

The pair I got is A/B and it enhances from one-half up to two cups depending on what you have now.  They also come in B/C.  Really not bad for $50 plus shipping and handling:

http://www3.jcpenney.com/jcp/Products.aspx?DeptID=40379&CatID=40410&CatTyp=DEP&ItemTyp=G&GrpTyp=PRD&ItemID=129384d&ProdSeq=1&Cat=accessories&Dep=Lingerie&PCat=Bras&PCatID=40381&RefPage=ProductList&Sale=&ProdCount=13&RecPtr=&ShowMenu=&TTYP=&ShopBy=0&RefPageName=CategoryAll%252Easpx&RefCatID=40381&RefDeptID=40379&Page=1&CmCatId=40379|40381|40410

~Fae

That's great Fae! Just by reading your post,I can feel how happy you are. :icon_dance:

Honestly, you have no idea  ;)

~Fae

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on August 10, 2007, 08:07:29 PM
fae, did you get the kind that smell like vanilla? ;)


my breasts (not my vanilla ones) hurt today, and i dont know why.  its like i strained both pectoral muscles or something  :P

hahhaha...I don't think the forms smell like anything really.  Though on the subject of smells, with HRT I definitely think my body smells like vanilla and flowers.  It's really subtle but it smells really sweet and musky, not like it did before where it smelled like metal *yaks*

My breasts hurt on occasion now too.  They always did when I first started HRT.  I take it as a sign that they're growing.  ;)

~Fae

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on August 10, 2007, 09:23:00 PM

Quote from: Fae on August 10, 2007, 09:00:14 PM

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on August 10, 2007, 08:07:29 PM
fae, did you get the kind that smell like vanilla? ;)


my breasts (not my vanilla ones) hurt today, and i dont know why.  its like i strained both pectoral muscles or something  :P

hahhaha...I don't think the forms smell like anything really.  Though on the subject of smells, with HRT I definitely think my body smells like vanilla and flowers.  It's really subtle but it smells really sweet and musky, not like it did before where it smelled like metal *yaks*

My breasts hurt on occasion now too.  They always did when I first started HRT.  I take it as a sign that they're growing.  ;)

~Fae

did you notice that some things taste really good and other things taste like ick?  i had some cantaloupe tonight and it was like medicine, it was awful.

and i have a cramp in my leg that is like twitching.  geez.

Haven't had any major problems.  Some minor leg pain but my doctor says that's because I don't exercise.  Need to do that. :D

Nothing really tastes different that I've noticed, but HRT affects everyone differently.

~Fae

Quote from: morticia on August 11, 2007, 05:05:43 AM
OMG!  Lucky you!  That's one of the things I sooooo long to be able to do..
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw279%2FMortica_Addams%2Fchildren-nursing-infant.jpg&hash=1362bacd6b89da820ab751ab3ca26c95cb9ab2eb)
  Sigh.....  To be a mother.  In every way...

*comforting hug*

Keep your chin up, girl.  ;)

I think it is often down to the individual and that person's make up as to how their breasts may or may not develop.  There are so many variables that might have to be taken into consideration. Frame size, body tissue mass, absorption rate, delivery mechanisms etc. Of course genetic female relatives often have their link to you as well, their development can suggest on the generous side or not... It is not a clear science; often a lot of patience and a good measure of technical understanding will certainly ease the tension that can be experienced.

My advise is to take to the subject with a clear understanding that all things are not necessarily equal... what works for one may or may not work for another. Of course there are a great number of women who want to feel more feminine and happier with their bodies and having a curvy bust-line is one area that can be addressed.

If an enhancement is right for you, over natural development, then research properly; find out the facts pertaining to you... not just a global understanding. This means go to a surgeon who will explain and offer a prognosis designed for you.

Above all, enjoy your femininity and as your body changes try to adjust to this with a calm spirit for the woman of you is on the inside.... Be kind to yourself.

you know, lactation isnt impossible :P

hmm, to me, thier just parts of my body, like the old one i had, just different. i still froget andwalk into doorframse at times ><

Quote from: Rachael on August 12, 2007, 02:12:44 AM
you know, lactation isnt impossible :P

hmm, to me, thier just parts of my body, like the old one i had, just different. i still froget andwalk into doorframse at times ><

hahah...I've done that... ::)

~Fae

whats that?
oh, and boobs are rather pemanent btw :)
R :police:

Fenugreek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenugreek) is a plant, Trigonella foenum-graecum. The seeds are used as a spice, often used in curry powder. In Indian cuisine, fenugreek sprouts and young greens are also popular.


Posted on: August 15, 2007, 11:06:47 PM

---

Quote from: y2gender on August 03, 2007, 11:16:03 PM

QuoteA GG friend of mine told me that eating Tofu might help with breast growth and further feminization, because it contains estrogen.  Can anyone verify this for me?

Many years ago I heard that soy products and sweet potatoes enhance the bodies' natural production of estrogen. I don't know if this is true, but I do make sure to eat lots of tofu and sweet potatoes  ;D

zythyra

I lived on a vegan diet with soy for breakfast, lunch, and dinner for 6 years. For the last year before I got on HRT, I consumed as much tofu and flax seed as I could, for the phytoestrogen. I also took lots of Red Clover and Danggui every day during that time. Breast result? Pratically nothing.

The advice to use "sweet potato" is bogus, there seems to have been a confusion of sweet potato (Ipomoea batatas) with Wild Yam (Dioscorea villosa), from a totally different division of the plant kingdom. Wild Yam is a natural source of diosgenin (http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/wild-yam-000280.htm), a precursor chemical of progesterone in the laboratory. However, Wild Yam diosgenin is not actually converted to progesterone in the body, sorry. Sweet potato (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a990604b.html) is completely irrelevant to breast growth.

QuoteI lived on a vegan diet with soy for breakfast, lunch, and dinner for 6 years. For the last year before I got on HRT, I consumed as much tofu and flax seed as I could, for the phytoestrogen. I also took lots of Red Clover and Danggui every day during that time. Breast result? Pratically nothing.

The advice to use "sweet potato" is bogus, there seems to have been a confusion of sweet potato (Ipomoea batatas) with Wild Yam (Dioscorea villosa), from a totally different division of the plant kingdom.

Yes, that's correct, wild yam and sweet potatoes are completely different things, I was confused about that when I first heard it. Anyway, although you had no breast growth from the soy, at least you're very healthy from the vegan diet.  ;D

Zythyra

Quote from: morticia on August 15, 2007, 03:35:09 PM
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.genderlife.com%2Fforum%2Fimages%2Fgraemlins%2Fdefault%2Fcheerbug.gif&hash=09b55e3d12cfa22f813ffd3610fb000496bb6920) Yay for permanent boobies!  (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.genderlife.com%2Fforum%2Fimages%2Fgraemlins%2Fdefault%2Fcheerbug.gif&hash=09b55e3d12cfa22f813ffd3610fb000496bb6920)

LOL! :D

all the herbal and phyto estrogen stuff is utter rubbish, ive never seen any of these things give any effects, unless you consumed a small harvests worth.

R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on August 16, 2007, 01:27:06 PM
all the herbal and phyto estrogen stuff is utter rubbish, ive never seen any of these things give any effects, unless you consumed a small harvests worth.

R :police:

I've heard that milk ducts do not form, but rather body fat just gets distributed there.  I've also heard that unlike HRT, stopping will completely make the breasts go away because there are no milk ducts formed.

I just wonder if TOO much can also have bad effects. This is cause I read a few times that the aim is to "reprogram" the bodys hormonal production. Hence blocking is bad? Or kill that stuff and be done with it?

Too much obviously is bad long periods cause an allergy might develop as well I fear.
And excess being converted into Testosterone as well...

A reminder is needed here.

I deleted and edited multiple posts in this thread due to violations of rule 6.

If it's non-prescribed and is intended for hrt, feminization, masculization, or self medication then it's violates rule 6...

Quote from: deviousxen on August 17, 2007, 02:40:00 AM
I just wonder if TOO much can also have bad effects. This is cause I read a few times that the aim is to "reprogram" the bodys hormonal production. Hence blocking is bad? Or kill that stuff and be done with it?

Too much obviously is bad long periods cause an allergy might develop as well I fear.
And excess being converted into Testosterone as well...

fail
time for the Rachael's hrt ->-bleeped-<-tastic fact or fiction hour!
excess estrogen is NOT converted to testosterone, this is a ->-bleeped-<-tastic fiction!
you dont reprogam the bodys system, your on hrt for ever, you wont start produceing estrogen. ->-bleeped-<-tastic fiction!
too much hrt can cause liver problems for one, and other gerneral blood and endocrine problems. ->-bleeped-<-tastic fact!
alergy from hrt? unlikely, dont see females alergic to themselves from a life of being a girl and vice versa. ->-bleeped-<-tastic fiction!
you cant stop natural horomone production without removing the gonads. ->-bleeped-<-tastic fact!

thanks for listening to the ->-bleeped-<-tastic fact or fiction show on Rachy 103.3!

R :police:

Ah sorry mod. Didn't mean to violate rules.

The whole allergy thing was addressing alternatives to HRT, not HRT itself, such as plant-derived material or extract. Obviously not the hormones themselves.


But thanks for these facts. The whole reprogramming thing didn't seem very sound anyways. I wanted to gather info first. THANKOO. :D

any natural herbal substitute to hrt is STILL hormones apparently, and thus limited in its discussion on this site...

R :police:

Well, even herbals can be toxic. Best to see your doc and get on a hormone prescription. 

I considered implants as my B cuppers look small on my large frame (44" chest). They're on hold for now. Maybe after I retire the race car. Besides, there are a lot of women who are smaller busted than I am.


Karen Lyn

Quote from: morticia on August 18, 2007, 06:09:42 PM

Quote from: KarenLyn on August 18, 2007, 05:07:24 PM
Well, even herbals can be toxic. Best to see your doc and get on a hormone prescription. 

I considered implants as my B cuppers look small on my large frame (44" chest). They're on hold for now. Maybe after I retire the race car. Besides, there are a lot of women who are smaller busted than I am.


Karen Lyn

Same here.  I'm the same size and mine just aren't very impressive.  They're there sure enough but they don't scream out "LOOK AT MY BOOBIES!" yet.  Maybe one day....

I appreciate the reply. I've read so many posts stating 36 this and 38 that - that I was beginning to think I was abnormal even among people who are considered by many to be abnormal.

Karen Lyn

A balanced diet would be better for you in the long run. Failing that, Ensure, or something similar, is a good dietary supplement. Oh, and high protein diets can be very hard on the kidneys.

Karen Lyn

I buy my protein shake mix at Target. It says something like "100% Whey Protein" on the bottle"

36 this and 38 that is by far the minority!
considered abnormal? not reall, thier normal female sizes, heck, they wouldnt make 40+s in bras if natal women didnt need them.

im a 34c right now, but thats because im fairly small.

Obviously you haven't shopped for bras in that size range. The bigger the band size, the harder it is to find a small cup size. The other problem is in the larger size ranges, I'll use 42 for example, a "c" cup is much larger than the cups on your 34. If by some miracle I was able to find a 44b, there is no way it would fit. I could fit both breasts in one cup. I found one size chart that takes this into consideration and it says I should be wearing a 44aaa. Try finding that even with a special order.

What I end up doing is buying a 38b, cutting then adding extensions to the shoulder straps and moving them to the ends of the band where the hooks are. Finally, I have to add 2 extensions to increase the band size. If I was a better seamstress, I would be much better off just making them from scratch.

Quote from: morticia on August 19, 2007, 02:13:59 PM

Quote from: Valerie53143 on August 19, 2007, 01:43:34 PM
I buy my protein shake mix at Target. It says something like "100% Whey Protein" on the bottle"

Cool!  What part of the store do you find it?  Like in the pharmacy?  I must be blind.

edit:
Uh oh, that stuff won't make you get big muscles will it?
That's the last thing I want!  All my old visible muscle has faded away into soft curves now and I don't want them back.
I was reading body builders swear by the stuff.

I think it was near the protein bars, or something like that, I think it might be the health food section, I'm not really sure though. Also lots of times they only seem to have one or two bottles on the shelf at a time. The bottles also are really big, they are about 10 inches tall. I think bodybuilders use it because protein helps build muscles. It hasn't made me get any more muscular as far as I can tell. I did notice that within a week of starting it I did have breast growing pains again.

Wish I didn't have so many allergies. Like... I can't do whey, or eggs, or ALOT of soy. Unless I made some kind of shake out of cold cuts (*pukes). That route would be blah.

I really need to go down to a smaller band size myself, since it's pretty loose (right now I'm wearing 36C).  So if I got a 34 band size, that would increase the cup size by 1, making it 34D, which is a little tricky to find.  Oh well, the search begins. :P

Target is amazing--the only store I've ever found where I can just walk in and buy bras in my weird size, 40A. They fit exactly right too. 40 is the girth of my huge rib cage, A is for my teeny titties. I'm sooo glad Target is there. It's actually easier to find a variety of pretty bras in my size in the store than on the internet, the reverse of what you'd expect.

For me, wearing a bra has turned out to be perhaps the single biggest difference between passing and clocking. It defines the shape of the bosom according to a standardized outline. When a person presents female, the public's eyes go directly to the bosom. If you're a big gal and flat as a board, that screams "man in a dress." I noticed I started passing much more easily as soon as I had a bosom to present.

Bra: Don't leave home without it.

Another factor you should consider in growth is getting enough sleep, 8 hours every night. HGH production depends on sleep, so if you aren't sleeping enough, your breast size may suffer.

Protien can be bought in GNC, Health foog stores, Puritans Pride and sports nutriton stores. Even some grocery stores have it in their health food section.
Whey protein is supposed to be the best. Soy Protien, although very good, it can block the E receptors because of the phyto E in it. I don't recomend it.
:) Protein won't give you large muscles unless you weight train. many use protein shakes to supplement their diets if they're not getting enough protein.  Protein is a vital nutrient for bodys developement and  for the health of muscles,bones,skin, hair and many other things.  ;)

I wish ye luck. :D

Hey Morticia, I'm glad you found some. Up here all most anywhere you go you can find protein powder. I bought my recent batch at Costco, they had a great deal on the stuff. 28 Can. dollars for a 5Lbs tub, and it's all natural,no artificial sweeteners, preservatives and the whey is imported from Denmark, where all their cattle is drug and hormone free. Most of the time I get mine at GNC but it looks like I found a new source. ;D

why cant you all just take hrt like normal ->-bleeped-<-s? :P
surely thats simpler for breastgrowth, most herbal and natural stuff just doesnt work or is temporary...

R :police:

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on August 21, 2007, 06:49:12 PM

Quote from: Hypatia on August 20, 2007, 06:19:39 AM

Another factor you should consider in growth is getting enough sleep, 8 hours every night. HGH production depends on sleep, so if you aren't sleeping enough, your breast size may suffer.

geez, as much as i've been sleeping lately i should be as big as a house  :-\

House sized boobs are probably not a good thing.

:D

Patients ladys
I don't know how long any of you have been on hrt. It is not a miracle drug by no means. It is an avenue of escape from mental anguish. I have been on one sort or another of harmones since I was 16. I think I have finaly developed  into what I am now. I am 32! A long time right. It takes a lot of patients and fortitude to with stand the mental stresses of being a female.

We worry about looking our best. Never leave home without our makup on. God forbid we see someone we know. What will they think!! Are our clothes up to the latest fassion? Do our purses match the ocassion. What kind of shoes are we wearing.

All that is really important is that you are happy inside!!!!!!!!

GG girls go through the exact same thing we are going  through. Just at an earlier stage. I was dressing as a girl when I was 10 or 11. Not full time, but every chance I got. My cousins helped along the way. You can read it in one of my post. My god play with your boobs. Most all young girls do. Help them along. If all else fails there is always augmentation.

Deb

Quote from: debisl on August 22, 2007, 01:15:14 PM
We worry about looking our best. Never leave home without our makup on. God forbid we see someone we know. What will they think!! Are our clothes up to the latest fassion? Do our purses match the ocassion. What kind of shoes are we wearing.

I seriously don't worry about that kind of stuff.  I know I've put some makeup on sometime this year, but don't ask when.  Tanks, shorts, and my ratty old purse.  What do I care?

Quote from: debisl on August 22, 2007, 01:15:14 PM
All that is really important is that you are happy inside!!!!!!!!

I've started noticing other women with my build who have the same sized breasts as I do.  That means I'm now within the normal female range.  That makes me happy inside.

Lisbeth That is all anyone can ever ask for is to be happy with themselves. Really that is the point we should all look toward.

Be Happy with who you are!!

Deb

Quote from: debisl on August 22, 2007, 01:15:14 PM
All that is really important is that you are happy inside!!!!!!!!

GG girls go through the exact same thing we are going  through. Just at an earlier stage. I was dressing as a girl when I was 10 or 11. Not full time, but every chance I got. My cousins helped along the way. You can read it in one of my post. My god play with your boobs. Most all young girls do. Help them along. If all else fails there is always augmentation.

That is some great advice. Unfortunately for me, with losing weight, my breasts have actually shrunk.  That's due to losing fat in them, so at this point, much of what's left is breast material.  I used to be a 36D-cup, but now I can barely fit in a 36C bra.  As I said before:

Quote from: Melissa on August 19, 2007, 10:21:56 PM
I really need to go down to a smaller band size myself, since it's pretty loose (right now I'm wearing 36C).  So if I got a 34 band size, that would increase the cup size by 1, making it 34D, which is a little tricky to find.

I'm now thinking of actually starting out with looking for a 34C and if that bra is too small (and it quite likely is), I can just go up in cup size from there. :)  I'm not trying to brag or anything (especially considering, that I said I went down in size), but I'm just saying it like it is.  It *does* get frustrating with trying to find clothes that fit when your body is constantly changing shape. :(  In fact most of my clothes are now several sizes too big and I have to use safety pins to keep them on (it sucks to be broke).

Melissa good for you. It is good to loose weight. Your boobs will fill out again. They go in spurts.

I'll tell you what I have done. With in reason! Choose the size you really want to be and buy accordingly. Make yourself fit into the size you want to be. I know if you are working in an office you have to have things to wear. But decide what size realisticly you need to be and make it your personal goal.

Deb

Thanks, Deb.  Unfortunately losing weight has made it easier to see my adam's apple, but nobody seems to have noticed other than myself.  I'll probably get a trach shave eventually, just so that I can stop worrying about it.

Quote from: debisl on August 22, 2007, 03:42:24 PM
I'll tell you what I have done. With in reason! Choose the size you really want to be and buy accordingly. Make yourself fit into the size you want to be. I know if you are working in an office you have to have things to wear. But decide what size realisticly you need to be and make it your personal goal.

Well, I'm actually pretty happy with what I have now.  I wanted to be about a C cup, maybe a D.  So if I get a proper band size, I should be right where I want to be. :)

trust me, its NOT just transwomen that feel thier boobs arnt right... :)
my best friend complains that she cant find 30 DD bras anymore without them being pornstar style, and another friend feels hers are too small. such is life, the quest for the ultimate boob :D
R :police:

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on August 22, 2007, 01:39:17 PM

Quote from: Sophia on August 22, 2007, 12:55:24 PM

House sized boobs are probably not a good thing.

:D

picturing them bringing a bra on one of those trucks they used to haul out the old saturn-5 rockets on

LOL You made my day with that one.

Quote from: Rachael on August 22, 2007, 08:17:16 PM
such is life, the quest for the ultimate boob :D

Screw the Holy Grail! The holy cup doesn't matter unless its the holy cup of a bra!

;D

Quote from: redfish on August 22, 2007, 04:50:30 PMI mean, having Bs would probably be great, but if that isn't the end result I'm definitely not going to get augmentation or something like that. It's just not me.

I keep hoping for B someday... so that I will be able to stop feeling so tempted by the siren call of augmentation.

grass is always greener...
trust me, Bs arnt big, or satisfying, i want atleast a D with my 36 band :D
R :police:

Well, I got a smaller bra tonight.  I grabbed 3 different 34C's to try on (biggest 34 cup size they had) and one fit good enough, but with the other 2, the cups runneth over. :P  So, I'll take a look at another place that has a larger selection of bras and try to find a 34D.  That should work for me.

Quote from: Rachael on August 22, 2007, 11:56:44 PMi want atleast a D with my 36 band :D

Been there, done that, got the bra. :P  I've lost weight since then and although a 36D isn't that bad really, you would probably need to pack on the pounds to achieve that.

possibly not, im young, so normal growth is sortof still working. Ive been on hrt 7 months and have a small C large B.... on LOW hrt... i might, just might get a LOT bigger when my dosage is trippled in a week :P
R :police:

Ah, ok.  Well I hope you end up with the size you want to be then.

Quote from: Rachael on August 23, 2007, 12:07:47 PM
possibly not, im young, so normal growth is sortof still working. Ive been on hrt 7 months and have a small C large B.... on LOW hrt... i might, just might get a LOT bigger when my dosage is trippled in a week :P
R :police:

A large B or a Small C ? in 7 months on low HRT? Geez, I'm sooo jealous. :icon_mrgreen: I'd pee my panties for joy if I got to be a decent sized B cup. ::)

Well, when I started hormones, I got up to an A cup pretty quickly (within a couple weeks because I already had some to start with).  Then I got to a B cup shortly after going fulltime (so, maybe at around 7 months)  I didn't even bother doing much with my breasts for a long time after that, but sometime around may, it had become obvious that my bra was WAY too small, so I shopped and got a C cup bra.  Like a week or 2 later (maybe because they finally had room to grow), I got up to a D-cup (so far all 36 band size).  Then I started losing weight after that and I started wearing a 36C again.  Eventually I knew the band size had gotten too loose, but I didn't bother shopping.  and then recently (as I noted previously in this thread) I realized I was only loosely fitting in the 36C, so I went bra shopping and got a 34C on the larger side, but I'll take a look at some other places this weekend.

Oh yeah, I also have a 31" waist from losing weight and waist training and when I was bra shopping, I got some other clothes and I'm actually wearing a size 4 skirt right now.

Posted on: August 23, 2007, 04:02:50 PM

---

I split the coffee portion of this topic over to:
Coffee and HRT (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18290.0.html)

I wonder if sleeping a certain way is better for symmetry. That and body pH interests me, and when you have food with stuff like Phytos. Basically, I wonder if it more easily distributes fat to the spots right after digestion and production of fat cells...


All pretty illogical...just curious.
Also...Other stuff. I heard Dopamine countered prolactin. Does this mean masturbation is bad for it?


All very odd questions. Had to ask though.

Quote from: deviousxen on August 24, 2007, 11:51:18 PM
I wonder if sleeping a certain way is better for symmetry.

My friend keeps advising me to not sleep on my tummy. And not to sleep in any position that compresses my breasts. She's petite with at least D cups and therefore speaks as an authority.

She also told me that she had small breasts for the first 5 years after puberty began and suddenly got a growth spurt her senior year of high school. So she advises me to be patient since I only started HRT last year, I may have a growth spurt in my future.

Quote from: Hypatia on August 25, 2007, 09:42:36 AM

Quote from: deviousxen on August 24, 2007, 11:51:18 PM
I wonder if sleeping a certain way is better for symmetry.

My friend keeps advising me to not sleep on my tummy. And not to sleep in any position that compresses my breasts. She's petite with at least D cups and therefore speaks as an authority.

She also told me that she had small breasts for the first 5 years after puberty began and suddenly got a growth spurt her senior year of high school. So she advises me to be patient since I only started HRT last year, I may have a growth spurt in my future.

I would think sleeping on your stomach would be bad just because growing breasts hurt.

Oddly enough, my breasts have not hurt for a long time (even while growing, although they did in the very beginning), yet they are a D-cup.  Go figure.

Quote from: Melissa on September 06, 2007, 09:54:27 AM
Oddly enough, my breasts have not hurt for a long time (even while growing, although they did in the very beginning), yet they are a D-cup.  Go figure.

I read somewhere that larger breasts have less tactile sensitivity. Does anyone know if that's true?

If so, I'll be happy with small breasts cuz they'll feel stuff more. ^_~

[/innuendo]

Quote from: Sophia on September 06, 2007, 11:31:42 AMI read somewhere that larger breasts have less tactile sensitivity. Does anyone know if that's true?

That's how it seems to be with my breasts at least. :-\

Quote from: Melissa on September 06, 2007, 11:33:30 AM

Quote from: Sophia on September 06, 2007, 11:31:42 AMI read somewhere that larger breasts have less tactile sensitivity. Does anyone know if that's true?

That's how it seems to be with my breasts at least. :-\

That sucks...

*huggles*

Well its a tradeoff I suppose. Larger breasts are more socially acceptable, but smaller breasts are better for sex all around. (get in the way less, allow for easier position shifting, are more sensitive to tactile manipulation and therefore glean more pleasure)

Since I really like sex and don't care about society, I think I'll be okay with a-cups or b-cups.

^^

Quote from: Sophia on September 06, 2007, 11:47:01 AM
That sucks...

*huggles*

Well its a tradeoff I suppose.

Thanks.  They do have *some* sensitivity, but not enough to get much pleasure from.  But as a tradeoff, I can still orgasm pretty easily (not from my breasts), which is impressive to me with being on as much HRT as I'm on.

I guess its just the nerve endings distribution?

Interesting.

I'm tight in some 36C, looser in some, lost so much weight since the start of the year that breast growth has slowed down much since I'm losing a bit of fat from the breasts.

Some 36C have a tight band, others are looser, don't really get it since 36 should be 36!

The bigger the band, the looser you'll be in your bra even if your tit hits the top of the cup, if your breasts are not fully mature yet (fully rounded). Smaller bands are more forgiving since even if the cup is round, the side angles are more acute and will still sort of fit.

I think I need some more protein in my diet...


My metabolisms too fast!

Quote from: Hypatia on July 03, 2007, 09:51:14 AM
After I started HRT, I laid off the phytoestrogens, no more flax, no more veganism (I'm ovo-lacto vegetarian again), no more of those herbs, lest the weak estrogens block the good one. Nothing but HRT produced actual breast growth.

Is it possible to be vegetarian and do HRT? I thought HRT products were derived from animal sources.

Quote from: MichelleT on September 24, 2007, 07:42:27 PM
Is it possible to be vegetarian and do HRT? I thought HRT products were derived from animal sources.

I asked them to give me Estrace instead of Premarin (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premarin#Controversy"), out of concern about treatment of animals.

Quote from: Hypatia on September 24, 2007, 09:26:06 PM

Quote from: MichelleT on September 24, 2007, 07:42:27 PM
Is it possible to be vegetarian and do HRT? I thought HRT products were derived from animal sources.

I asked them to give me Estrace instead of Premarin (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premarin#Controversy"), out of concern about treatment of animals.

So Estrace is made from soybeans. That is interesting.

I dislike taking drugs though just as much as I dislike eating meat. I guess it comes down to how motivated one is.

Estrace is working great for me, and I am 29.  As with HRT in general results vary on a number of factors out of your control. 

I guess that I am an odd-ball again (I am used to it and actually I kindda like it) I have had great results from herbals I have small b-cup my hips have become rounder and and my waist has narrowed in I also listen to hypnosis to help. I do not doubt in the slightest that what people say is the truth about it being placebo effects but if it is placebo effects with the herbs I think that at least in my mind I believe that they will at least inhance the effects I'm getting and as far as weather or not the hypnosis is a placebo effect anyone who says any different hasn't really thought about what someone does with hypnosis. all you can do with hypnosis is try to convince the mind that the desired effect is going to happen and this is the definition of placebo effect but as long as it is working for me I am going to go by the old saying "if it isn't broke don't fix it" I am not trying to say that this is anywhere near a suggested path for anyone else from the sounds of it I have just gotten very lucky and if I didn't have the finacial difficulties I have i would have most likely gone a more convential route. just figured I would add my personal experience but please let me restate this one thing if you can do this the convential way it would be best! (it is kinnda wierd to use the term convential on this site is it not??)

Quote from: Jessie_Heart on September 25, 2007, 01:31:29 PM
I guess that I am an odd-ball again (I am used to it and actually I kindda like it) I have had great results from herbals I have small b-cup my hips have become rounder and and my waist has narrowed in

You sound like a very fortunate oddball to me. :)

I would love to go herbal but the research I did gave me the impression that it is just a waste of money for most people.

Quote from: MichelleT on September 25, 2007, 05:20:42 PM

You sound like a very fortunate oddball to me. :)

I would love to go herbal but the research I did gave me the impression that it is just a waste of money for most people.
[/quote]

the place I get my from there are many people who have reported similar result on the message board there I am not saying that this means anything but that is what convinced me to give them a try! they have a formula that is supposed to supress testosterone and another for helping the body produce more estrogen ( this is only my understanding of how these are supposed to work I could be wrong) wich is what I wanted to do and it has turned out great for me but it may not for others.

Jessie,

Can post the url for the message board or email it to me. I'm not able to email yet.

Quote from: MichelleT on September 25, 2007, 05:40:52 PM
Jessie,

Can post the url for the message board or email it to me. I'm not able to email yet.

I sent you a personal message with the url!

Quote from: Jessie_Heart on September 25, 2007, 05:53:05 PM
I sent you a personal message with the url!

Thanks! Got it.

I'm unable to respond to the message, so I'll just say that giving me a url in no way makes you responsible for my actions.  :angel:

Quote from: MichelleT on September 25, 2007, 08:27:26 AM
So Estrace is made from soybeans. That is interesting.

Where did you find that? I looked around but was not able to find what Estrace is made from.

Posted on: September 25, 2007, 08:30:48 PM

---

Quote from: morticia on September 25, 2007, 11:06:30 AM
Out of curiosity, how well is the Estrace working out for you?  I mean are the results satisfactory?

I welcome the deepening of my emotional responses.
I love the softness of my skin. The feeling goes all through my body and mind, making me feel like a sensuous woman.
I have small breasts, hoping for more. It's been a year and a half but I keep hoping.
I'm not sure if the growth of my body hair has been reduced any. I think it might be a little less. The hair on my head has stopped receding.
My face has benefited somewhat, looks slightly softer. At my age, I was aware of the likelihood of diminished results. The most important change is in how I feel within myself and how I relate to people. The softness in me is very wonderful.

Quote from: Hypatia on September 25, 2007, 08:37:46 PM
Where did you find that? I looked around but was not able to find what Estrace is made from.

Posted on: September 25, 2007, 08:30:48 PM

http://www.rxcarecanada.com/Estrace.asp?prodid=702


Posted on: September 25, 2007, 08:49:30 PM

---

Quote from: Hypatia on September 25, 2007, 08:37:46 PM
I welcome the deepening of my emotional responses.
I love the softness of my skin. The feeling goes all through my body and mind, making me feel like a sensuous woman.

Mmmmmm.... that sounds wonderful.

Quote from: MichelleT on September 25, 2007, 08:53:11 PM

Quote from: Hypatia on September 25, 2007, 08:37:46 PM
Where did you find that? I looked around but was not able to find what Estrace is made from.

Posted on: September 25, 2007, 08:30:48 PM

http://www.rxcarecanada.com/Estrace.asp?prodid=702

Ah, thank you!

Posted on: September 26, 2007, 04:45:39 AM

---

Quote from: morticia on September 25, 2007, 09:24:53 PM
The changes from the waist down are fairly radical.

Oh that reminds me, forgot to mention. That which I do not want has shrunk too. :)

Posted on: September 26, 2007, 04:47:02 AM

---

Quote from: morticia on September 25, 2007, 09:24:53 PMBody hair is still a problem but it's slowly getting better but that's likely because I epilate my whole body, at least what I can reach.

That's what I had been thinking. HRT combined with regular waxing seems to be inhibiting the growth somewhat.

ive lost a significant ammout of what i had (not much anyway) due to hrt.
has this topic derailed into hrt effects?

it seems interesting, recent breast examination shows that im less mature than i thought, (worrying) im a large b cup, yet not mature? (9 months low hrt) do you think i need to worry about how big im going to get? looseing weight will reduce this right?
R :police:

Depending how much weight you've got to lose, losing weight will either stall, or you'll lose some size.

I lost weight 185->160 (6 feet) (and I didn't look overweight by any strectch initially, my BMI was 25, now its 21.5). Breast size stalled since then, but without HRT it would have regressed. Breast growth compensates for weight loss if you don't lose too much. Right now, small 36C.

It also depends how much of the breast is gland, and how much is fat. If its mostly fat (possible at low dosage and if you have a bit of weight to lose), then losing weight will have more effect than if it was mostly gland and gland mixed with fat (intertwined).

nope, most of mine is actual breast glands not fat, ive had them since 14 or so, ive only been on a low dose due to my natural production of estrogen being high comparatively.
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on September 30, 2007, 03:59:57 PM
nope, most of mine is actual breast glands not fat, ive had them since 14 or so, ive only been on a low dose due to my natural production of estrogen being high comparatively.
R :police:

When you lose weight, you only lose fat.  The underlying structures remain the same.

Quote from: Kira on May 27, 2007, 10:29:34 PM
I am wondering, how do most MtF's achieve the breast size they desire?  Do most get actual implants or do they use herbs?  I have wanted, and desire breasts and have began to consider breast implants.  Is this the best or are there other alternatives that aren't quite so risky?

I think it really depends on the individual genetics. I know for sure, that AGE has a lot to do with Breast Development in TS/TG. I myself started Hormones @ 17, now 25 In have a 36C (pushing on D), breasts.

I actually tried the herbal stuff at the start, their pretty useless (in my personal opinion).... I got a supple chest and maybe a 36A, swithched to Chemical Hormones after a year, within 2 years I had good sized C cups, and current pushing on to a full chested "36D" Cups...

Generally with Hormones, weather Breast or General feminization, I think alot of it is to do with Genetics and when you start taking hormones.

Good Luck.... Implants are always a final option....  :P

It has more to do with genetics than when you started hormones.
Weight has also a lot more to do with it than most people realize.
Gaining 20-30 pounds can easily double the size of your breast and increase your band size.
If your very fit and trim, your breast will be smaller (the exact size depending on genetics).

Fat and gland tissue is intermingled in a mature breast,
so if you lose fat, you'll lose breast size FOR SURE.
Don't believe me, try it.
Why do you think women are often the wrong bra size,
because their weight varies and they don't change
the bras they buy or keep old ones.

Quote from: Lisbeth on September 30, 2007, 06:28:30 PM

Quote from: Rachael on September 30, 2007, 03:59:57 PM
nope, most of mine is actual breast glands not fat, ive had them since 14 or so, ive only been on a low dose due to my natural production of estrogen being high comparatively.
R :police:

When you lose weight, you only lose fat.  The underlying structures remain the same.

Duh...
hence still having them since i lost weight ;)
R >:D

Quote from: Beverly on May 31, 2007, 09:26:05 PM
Well well.....more boob chat.  We can't seem to get enough of it.  What about all the other wonderful things, like the wonderful changes that happen to your face?  Or the wonderful changes that happen to your bottom (Marcy loves my bottom.  I think it's kinda cute myself).  What about all the other things?  Women aren't just breasts, after all...
For me, I didn't think I'd ever get into an 'A' cup, then I thought I'd never get into a 'B' cup.  My 'B' is now a B+, and still slowly but surely going, even at 50-something.  I guess I'll end up a 'C'. 
That's on a proper regimen of estrogen 2 1/4 yrs, with spiro the last 10 months. My start date was Jan 15, 2005.
Relax.....give the magic of hrt time.
Bev

Boy howdy, you said a mouthful there, girl. Good ON ya! I started on Sandrena about the same time you did, roughly (March or April of that year, I think). Foolishly, started on my own, then a belated sense of responsibility kicked in and I went to see a TG-friendly doctor... painted by the numbers. I'm now on two sachets of Sandrena - per Doctor's order - and a tab of Cyprostat a day. I'm pretty sure I'm a B cup, although with my chest size (which has shrunk a bit, but not terribly much) I still look fairly blokey. Skin's nice, though, and oh, that feeling of contentment... who needs boobs? My calves are smaller - although I power-walk an hour every day! - and more shapely and the skin is just lovely. Boobs, schmoobs.

With me, things havent been fantastic :(

I've been on HRT now for just over 15 months (progynova - oestradiol valerate), 12 months with spironolactone. Started when i was 20. T went from high male to upper range of female and oestrogen is within all normal female ranges.

But now a year after buds started, im barely an A cup. Had a spurt recently after swithcing my oestrogen from a different type id been on for 6 months back to my original. But things have slowed down now.

My boobs are the biggest thing that gets me down. Not because its the most important thing (well :P), but because its what im lacking the most of anything apart from the major thing. And my nose. (but im adamant not to change it for a long while!) which is making me feel a bit incomplete.

I've considered augmentation, but then i wouldnt get it at least for another year with will be after srs, which may help me a bit with the development. But then again, is there anything else i could do? adding progesterone or upping the oestrogen? I'm thinking of getting my bloods checked again to see how im doing, but then the appointment the get then discussed wont be cheap...

At a bit of a dead end of what to do really :/

Just want to wear something a bit more revealing on the top without having to worry about padding myself up just to make them look like breasts...

Rachael you are beautiful

People say mine are well-developed so far... And I'm about 4 months in or so?

Friends can see them through my shirt O_o

I have been on HRT for about three months and start anti-androgens next week. in the three months i have gone from a 36AA to between a 36 A/B.

I was really pleased at a comment the other day. I had an appointment to see about facial hair removal and the person thought I had had implants, well i don't know if that was a compliment but I said proudly, "nope all my own." How cool was that. I am near 50 than 40 so each person is different as as been said before in this thread.

hugs

Nigella

I don't want to be a party pooper, but often in the first few months, your breast get big fast but in fact, most of it is the muscle (with the nipple on top). I know this from experience, by month 6 I was 36C but now 1.5 year later I'm 32C which is 4 times smaller in size, why, because the muscle behind the breasts deflated completely. Also, the breast shape makes a big difference, a 36C after 4 months is unlikely to be a half sphere, its certainly conical, which means that a full cup bra will fit very badly. Better a triangle bra, a stretcheable bar, or a balcony bra.

So, in short, until we've lost our muscles, and the breasts are mature (which takes years even for teen girls), cup size doesn't really tell the real final picture.

Quote from: Keira on June 20, 2008, 05:59:02 PM
I don't want to be a party pooper, but often in the first few months, your breast get big fast but in fact, most of it is the muscle (with the nipple on top). I know this from experience, by month 6 I was 36C but now 1.5 year later I'm 32C which is 4 times smaller in size, why, because the muscle behind the breasts deflated completely. Also, the breast shape makes a big difference, a 36C after 4 months is unlikely to be a half sphere, its certainly conical, which means that a full cup bra will fit very badly. Better a triangle bra, a stretcheable bar, or a balcony bra.

So, in short, until we've lost our muscles, and the breasts are mature (which takes years even for teen girls), cup size doesn't really tell the real final picture.

HAHAH!!! I am muscleless anyway!
I'm a skinny weakling! Some of it could be fat, in which case, win.

No win there, fat goes away as you get closer to the right weight for your body type.

I'm slightly confused...

Cause all this has done is make me gain fat. I've never had fat. Not even any. I dont have MUCH, but its better than nothing now. I severely doubt it will go back to nothing once things even out. I eat TONS now. I mean... My doctor at my last physical said I looked anorexic...


Caffeine is... Well... Hahahah...

I look and feel healthier, aside from the damn spiro crash. I'll be fine in a few days though. Its work I'm mostly worried about and its hazards. I count not being able to sleep on your front a success considering it hasn't been that long really. Its better than nothing. : )

Quote from: tekla on June 20, 2008, 08:23:10 PM
No win there, fat goes away as you get closer to the right weight for your body type.

Lets see if I understand this....

Prior to my HRT start (which was 8 months ago...yay me...you go girl) I had no visible fat
you could see my six pack abs. now I have small love handles and no more six pack my
stomach has a put on a little but not the male shape rounded like a beer belly, the only thing
I can compare it to is my 14 y/o who has the same shape.... only her hips put mine to shame.

so is my body building up to what it should be as female and then level out and distribute the fat
accordingly i.e. hips, butt, breasts, etc.... or should I do something to try to reduce the fat now?

Sorry...I don,t mean to be like....Hey what about me!
it is just the advice of all you lovely people have gotten me this far
I would still be struggling with how to begin this journey so...Thank you all for being here and caring.
I am very pleased so far with my results because of the expieriences of the people here that I have
followed advice on, so I put alot of faith into all your kind words. 

Quote from: morticia on September 30, 2007, 05:20:22 PM
If you're unsure of your boobs, let photobucket be the judge.
I can speak from first hand experiance on this.

1.  Post a picture of a man's bare chest on photobucket. ---> (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw279%2FMortica_Addams%2Fjesse7.jpg&hash=9f59bd2f92a3499aa63c8cda1472bd7ae970da49)

2.  Post a picture of YOUR bare chest on photobucket.

Sit back and wait about 1 day and see which one if any gets deleted by photobucket for a TOS violation.
If #2 gets deleted and replaced with one of their little violation pics like this,
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw279%2FMortica_Addams%2F04a08c04.gif&hash=5aa7f76c8af06cc7696265156e303fd0c2e14f66)
Then you've got boobs.  If not, then you've got a ways to go yet.  :D


(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw279%2FMortica_Addams%2Ffbb3d33d.jpg&hash=ba0281ed912e7cfa140dd9916d90ca355c3fe979)

haha
that made me giggle
xoxo
Ali

I started out a 32AAA.  After a year I was 32A.  After going on an off for a long time, I am now going to stay on HRT.  I never lost my breasts when not taking hormones.  It has been one month so I now will see how I end up.  I would love to be 32C.

That's a great question.  I think that it totally depends on the individual.  For me HRT was enough, I went from a 34 A to a 36 B in about six months, which is my desired size.  I would say however that if I wanted to go to a C cup, I'd more than likely have to get implants.

In reply to your question I have tried the herbal with some promissing results especially in the decreased hair growth and growth in my breasts. I have since switched to the overseas hormones for the last 6 months and I do see some improvement. In total I have been trying to increase my breast size for about 1 year and 3 months. I do understand that patience is the word of the day even as I fit into the catagory as being on th older side 57 and the wait is worth it. I am almost able to fill a 42 B size and will be one happy person when I completely fill it out.