Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I've been thinking about elevators a lot ever since I took some psych class back in community college where our professor talked a lot about elevators (not that I can remember what she said now).

So, since I've started contemplating transitioning I've been thinking about how men and women act in elevators, and today I came across this short article: http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2013/04/15/177335104/who-stands-where-in-a-crowded-elevator-and-why (http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2013/04/15/177335104/who-stands-where-in-a-crowded-elevator-and-why) . This article discusses how men seem to stand in the middle or back (more senior/powerful men stand in the very back) while women stand in the front.

I haven't really noticed this in my day-to-day life riding elevators, I usually just stand in the front if I am getting off in a floor or two, or in the back if I have quite a ride. It seems like common courtesy, front = don't have to push people to get off; back = don't be in other's way.

The article also discusses how the women avoided looking in the mirrors (unless there was only women on the elevator), while the men (well more powerful/senior men in the back) freely gazed at their reflections or at the other passengers through the mirror. I don't often ride elevators with mirrors, but I do try to avoid looking at my reflection in things like windows, it just seems vain to me; though I do look in the mirror in the bathroom (ladies room only).

So... how do you guys ride elevators? Have you noticed a difference once you've started transitioning? The only thing I notice is that when I am presenting female, the guys always let me off first, where if I am presenting male then the ladies always let themselves off first.

I don't really think that article was too accurate for where I live (USA) but maybe it's accurate for where the study was done (Australia).

At college we just bundle into the lift and try to stop one of the people getting anywhere near the buttons, because he always presses every single one.  The only thing I've noticed is that they won't go in there if there are unattractive girls in there, or other men.

I've spent a lot of my college time studying psychology. It seems to me like this psychologist is just pulling anything out to try and prove that men have some kind of predatory instinct.  ::)

The study was done at business towers where the same groups of men and women ride the elevators at approximately the same time everyday. That means people are going to fall into a routine of standing in certain areas so of course there are going to be patterns. The study would be more accurate and more valuable if it were done on more random elevator riders.

Here's what I've learned from my own elevator experiences:

First: Genders usually group together in cramped spaces like elevators because of the uncomfortable proximity of others. Men don't usually feel comfortable standing among a group of women because of the increased likelihood of brushing against or bumping into one in a way that might be considered inappropriate. That also works in reverse for women not wanting to stand too close to men.

Second: Older people, men especially, usually move to the back as a polite gesture to ensure that there's room for others and to allow others off the elevator before them. It's seen as something chivalrous to do so of course the majority of senior men are going to take up that type of attitude.

As for the looking in the mirror, the men are checking out the women and the women are uncomfortable because they know they're being checked out. It doesn't take a degree in Psychology to figure that one out...

Quote from: Contravene on April 16, 2013, 12:26:04 PM
I've spent a lot of my college time studying psychology. It seems to me like this psychologist is just pulling anything out to try and prove that men have some kind of predatory instinct.  ::)


As for the looking in the mirror, the men are checking out the women and the women are uncomfortable because they know they're being checked out. It doesn't take a degree in Psychology to figure that one out...

Lol aren't you also saying men have a predatory instinct?  :D

QuoteSecond: Older people, men especially, usually move to the back as a polite gesture to ensure that there's room for others and to allow others off the elevator before them. It's seen as something chivalrous to do so of course the majority of senior men are going to take up that type of attitude

When I was a guy, this is what I'd do (and why I did it). Now I still stand near the back, but more for "security and safety" than anything else...I don't trust men behind my back unless I know them.

Quote from: LearnedHand on April 16, 2013, 12:49:14 PM
Lol aren't you also saying men have a predatory instinct?  :D

No, but I can see why it might sound like I am :P I'll elaborate though.

I think all humans have some sort of predatory instinct regardless of gender but that's not really the case here. The researcher seems to keep implying that men purposely herd women to the front so they can assert their dominance over women then prey on them. It even makes it seem as if the women are being victimized.

I don't doubt that there are some men out there who do behave that way but I think in this case the researcher took an act of politeness and blew it way out of proportion. It's as simple as the older men acting chivalrously by moving to the back to make room for others and if they happen to have a view of the women in front of them, they don't mind taking the opportunity to glance around. I doubt they're doing it solely for that reason though.

I usually try to let a "silent-but-deadly" emission, and then look around the crowded elevator, make a sour face, and exclaim, "Oh my god!  Who did that?"

Quote from: The Old Gray Mare on April 16, 2013, 02:55:12 PM
I usually try to let a "silent-but-deadly" emission, and then look around the crowded elevator, make a sour face, and exclaim, "Oh my god!  Who did that?"

Now, this ^^ is a typical male etiquette that transcends time and cultures...LOL

If it's empty when I get on I automatically move to the back to let others easily get on. If there are already people on it I just pick a side where there is less people.

I've never had thoughts of accidentally touching a woman because if the elevator is that packed I'm waiting on the next one.  I don't like people in "my bubble" so I'm not about to step in theirs either.

I step to the back as well, just so that others can get in.

Quote from: The Old Gray Mare on April 16, 2013, 02:55:12 PM
I usually try to let a "silent-but-deadly" emission, and then look around the crowded elevator, make a sour face, and exclaim, "Oh my god!  Who did that?"

Who smelt it dealt it  ;D

I always take the back corner, both to make room for people coming in, and because I've had shades of elevator anxiety since I was a kid. Somehow being able to touch the walls makes the likelihood of the cable snapping and plummeting to my death go down inside my head :P

Quote from: peky on April 16, 2013, 03:02:34 PM
Now, this ^^ is a typical male etiquette that transcends time and cultures...LOL

Au contraire, mon amie. Les femmes peuvent être tout aussi odorantes que les hommes.

Quote from: The Old Gray Mare on April 16, 2013, 04:35:52 PM
Au contraire, mon amie. Les femmes peuvent être tout aussi odorantes que les hommes.

c'est ^^^ ce que les hommes prétendent être la vérité, mais le fait est que les femmes ne passent jamais de gaz en public

Je ne pas parle Francais...

Quote from: peky on April 16, 2013, 05:22:49 PM
c'est ^^^ ce que les hommes prétendent être la vérité, mais le fait est que les femmes ne passent jamais de gaz en public

I remember very little French from high school, but even just reading it "as if" it's an English sentence, I get: "but that's why women never pass gas in public."

Jamie said that he likes to fart in the elevator

I said: that is typical of men

Jamie said in french: On the contrary, my friend. Women can be just as stinky as men.

Quote from: peky on April 16, 2013, 05:22:49 PM
c'est ^^^ ce que les hommes prétendent être la vérité, mais le fait est que les femmes ne passent jamais de gaz en public

Above I responded in french: That is what men claim to be the truth but the fact remains that women never pass gas in public (sauf dans la toilette)(except in the public restrooms, and even ther with great care)

You want to bet on that.  I hear women pass gas in the grocery store all the time.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on April 16, 2013, 05:56:58 PM
You want to bet on that.  I hear women pass gas in the grocery store all the time.

Maybe this is one of those Californian trends, G-d have mercy on us

I notice myself paying far more attention to the males around me than I do to the females... and I feel that it has everything to do with assessing potential threats than anything else. That didn't start going on until after T... I only just noticed it not long ago.

But in regards to elevators, I tend to stick to the back unless that isn't possible. And it makes me quite uncomfortable to be towards the front or center. I don't like anyone close and where I can't keep an eye on them at the same time... something that absolutely is not just limited to elevators.

If stairs are an option, I use them and not the elevator. But if they're way out of the way or hidden, then of course I have to use the elevator. I'd prefer to never use them at all but that's impossible.

Quote from: Magnus on April 17, 2013, 05:03:17 AM
I notice myself paying far more attention to the males around me than I do to the females... and I feel that it has everything to do with assessing potential threats than anything else. That didn't start going on until after T... I only just noticed it not long ago.
But in regards to elevators, I tend to stick to the back unless that isn't possible. And it makes me quite uncomfortable to be towards the front or center. I don't like anyone close and where I can't keep an eye on them at the same time... something that absolutely is not just limited to elevators.

That's called paranoia :) But I know what You mean - its just I never thought that this feeling could be T related.
P.S. I prefer to stick to the front, so I can hop out as soon as I can.

I'll always go straight to the back. I hate having to stand anywhere other than this. I hate being around people so I want to be as far away from them as possible. If theres already people on there I'd take the stairs instead. Only if I had to would I go on and of course as it would already be full I'd have to stand at the front. Only time I ever would though, when I have to. Any more than maybe 2 people already in it I'd just wait on the next one, basically to get them out of my way so I could go in myself. People annoy me, I dont want them around me. If I wasnt on the top floor I'd take the stairs more often to avoid them but I cant be bothered. I try just get it to myself and usually do. I couldnt care less what gender the person/people are, I just dont want to be around anyone regardless of that. I dont pay the slightest bit of attention to them, just annoyed by their presence  :P Yes I have anger problems

Quote from: Sammy on April 17, 2013, 06:27:05 AM
That's called paranoia :) But I know what You mean - its just I never thought that this feeling could be T related.
P.S. I prefer to stick to the front, so I can hop out as soon as I can.

True. But, I'm sure everyone is a little paranoid and perfectly mentally sound. It would be abnormal (bordering on dangerously naive) to have absolutely no paranoia, IMO.

Yeah though, swear it's from the T. But I think that falls into the instinctual male gender role (e.g. traditionally, it's been our primary job to be the protector and which would of course necessitate paying a little more attention to the actions of others to assess such potential risks/threats to ourselves and others around us). That kind of thing.

Before, I never really paid much attention to others around me. And now it's kind of causing a little bit of social anxiety. Because I'm more acutely aware of other people, what they're doing, how they all seem to pay way closer attention (I know that's an illusion just because I'M the one paying more attention but I trust you know what I mean)... or well, its difficult to explain but yeah. It's definitely an adjustment.

I really do not like being around people anyway, but it's not crippling. I don't have problems being around others it's just I'd prefer not to. Some claim it's a basic human need to be around others, but I must be the exception to the rule because I really don't. Perfectly happy not saying a damn word to another human being for weeks/months on end lol.

Maybe I am extremely naive or something but I usually don't feel any sort of fear or need to be behind people in elevators for protection reasons, it doesn't seem very common for people to go on shooting or stabbing rampages in elevators, it also seems like a very illogical place to try to do anything. I've never been groped, etc. on a elevator either (though I know of people who have been raped in enclosed staircases, never elevators though).

I do usually take the stairs, even if I am pretty far up, unless I am carrying a bunch of crap or pushing a cart, etc. just for the exercise, not because I don't like people.

I notice when women get off first in an elevator before me without delay or hesitation because I can make myself think that I must have passed to them, even though it could be attributed to any number of other variables.

I generally stand off to the side, closer to the back. I do this so that if anyone else is there or wants to get on I'm out of their way.

I'm terrified of elevators, so if I'm forced into one I take up a back corner, hold onto both railings, and try not to flip out during the ride. On a somewhat related note, I tend to gravitate towards the middle or back of a train and let the ladies get off first because it's polite, even though if I were them I'd be miffed that some guy did that. Irony at its finest.

Quote from: peky on April 16, 2013, 05:22:49 PM
c'est ^^^ ce que les hommes prétendent être la vérité, mais le fait est que les femmes ne passent jamais de gaz en public

Touché, mon cheré Peky. Votre sagesse doit dériver de l'expérience.

Quote from: Jamie D on April 17, 2013, 09:21:55 PM
Touché, mon cheré Peky. Votre sagesse doit dériver de l'expérience.

merci mon ami <3

I also go to the back or the side if i'm going to be on there a while to make room for others.

As far as looking around i adopt a 100 yard stare into a spot where i'm unlikely to offend anyone. I've noticed that others do something similar.

One thing that has often struck me are the people that rush in while others are trying to exit. Simply rude behavior.

Speaking of rude behavior  :D  I've never let one fly on an elevator but the thought of crop dusting when exiting is funny (to me, not to the poor souls that are trapped with it). At my age there are certain "risks" inherent in that activity so that's one reason i don't do it.

Coincidentally I got forced onto one today for some reason, bunch of friends made me get on. No fear lol

I didn't do my clinging and being on the verge of a heart attack thing, so I just stood back center and let my eyes drift pretty much everywhere. ADHD is fun  :P

Elevators?

Crazy Americans. To the rest of the world they are 'Lifts'

Ask an Aussie where the elevator is and she will ask 'is that a large grey animal with a trunk? You can see them in a Zoo.'

Quote from: Cindy. on April 18, 2013, 06:44:07 PM
Elevators?

Crazy Americans. To the rest of the world they are 'Lifts'

Ask an Aussie where the elevator is and she will ask 'is that a large grey animal with a trunk? You can see them in a Zoo.'

Trunk? Isn't that a suitcase?

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on April 18, 2013, 06:47:45 PM
Trunk? Isn't that a suitcase?

How many people carry suits in a suitcase?

Quote from: Cindy. on April 18, 2013, 07:09:43 PM
How many people carry suits in a suitcase?

How many elephants wear suits? By the way, they couldn't hit an elephant at this dist.......

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on April 18, 2013, 07:14:04 PM
How many elephants wear suits? By the way, they couldn't hit an elephant at this dist.......

Only on formal occasions, otherwise they keep them in the trunk.

Boots and all!

I always wonder why they all sing in American but speak in that funny english

This ^^^ is the king of thing that makes me go...Hummm!

Quote from: Cindy. on April 18, 2013, 07:18:54 PM

Only on formal occasions, otherwise they keep them in the trunk.

Boots and all!

Your boots live in the boot not the trunk...