Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Define Religion

TMW

i suppose you want my opinion on religion and not the typical definition you'll find in a dictionary, yes?

religion is a morbid social perversion utilizing fascism and primitive magical-thought and fear-based paradigms of spirituality to subjugate, dominate and control the feeble-minded.

there.  ;)

Quote from: Katia on June 02, 2007, 02:18:39 PM
i suppose you want my opinion on religion and not the typical definition you'll find in a dictionary, yes?

religion is a morbid social perversion utilizing fascism and primitive magical-thought and fear-based paradigms of spirituality to subjugate, dominate and control the feeble-minded.

there.  ;)

Well, that is revealing, but it just doesn't help me here. Thanks all the same.

Hint: an operator such as is, might not be the best approach when you state an acute opinion like that. IE: I would tend to agree with a lot of your statement, but it doesn't work as an absolute, plus the topic title does use the verb define, not opine. Also, you've mostly given examples of what gets done by religion, in place of what it "is" or Might Be.

Quote from: Katia on June 02, 2007, 12:31:05 PM
...a cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion doesn't refer to religion in the sense that it does with christianity. religion, in the context of this definition, would be used for exaggerating the significance of the enjoyment of a habit or activity in which one engages.

like "i love jogging... i do it every day religiously" or "watching "regis and kelly"  is my religion".

it's [not] meant to imply that "jogging" or "watching regis and kelly" or anything else applicable by the standards of this definition should be considered categorically equivalent to organized religion. 

Are these categorically equivalent to <religion> or religious activity per se, though? I think most of us understand what is meant by 'organized religion'.

tmw

Religion, the root of all evil.
It's the excuse used to do bad or ill things unto others.
It's the word oppression is based on
It's the idea that starts wars.

The ideology of it is good, but used by man it's the downfall of society.

now i am not a religious amorphous blob of desire, but to call it the root of evil is pretty harsh.
I bet there is no crime committed in the name of religion that doesn't serve some other purpose to the person committing it. In fact it is such a good excuse because of the amount of good it does.

It is a self help group for the helpless, a community centre, a family for those without, a social network, a source of personal significance, an attempt at connecting with something else be it world, god or people, a way of structuring life, the birthplace of many thousands of charitable organisations and good ideas, one of the last forms of social cohesion, an excuse for a party, theatre, a common mode of expression and a living beacon of hope to millions.

Just a pity they are founded on bunches of silly stories that's all.

It is a form of worship. It includes a system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices; they may be personal or they may be advocated by an organization, but these days religion means BRAINWASHED.

Quote from: Lori on June 02, 2007, 03:49:01 PM
Religion, the root of all evil.
It's the excuse used to do bad or ill things unto others.
It's the word oppression is based on
It's the idea that starts wars.

Let me try and be didactic here:

1) "THE excuse...", not an excuse, or "THE idea" that starts wars, rather than one idea... is less-than-reasonable in a philosophical discourse.

2) Please elaborate on the etymology: > religion > oppression, I rather doubt that it works quite that way.

3) when you use an absolute such as all evil, be prepared to have your post considered as readily dismissable.

twm

Quote from: The Middle Way on June 02, 2007, 04:53:14 PM

Quote from: Lori on June 02, 2007, 03:49:01 PM
Religion, the root of all evil.
It's the excuse used to do bad or ill things unto others.
It's the word oppression is based on
It's the idea that starts wars.

Let me try and be didactic here:

1) "THE excuse...", not an excuse, or "THE idea" that starts wars, rather than one idea... is less-than-reasonable in a philosophical discourse.

2) Please elaborate on the etymology: > religion > oppression, I rather doubt that it works quite that way.

3) when you use an absolute such as all evil, be prepared to have your post considered as readily dismissable.

twm

Stirrer  :icon_cute:

Quote from: Pica Pica on June 02, 2007, 04:56:00 PM

Quote from: The Middle Way on June 02, 2007, 04:53:14 PM

Quote from: Lori on June 02, 2007, 03:49:01 PM
Religion, the root of all evil.
It's the excuse used to do bad or ill things unto others.
It's the word oppression is based on
It's the idea that starts wars.

Let me try and be didactic here:

1) "THE excuse...", not an excuse, or "THE idea" that starts wars, rather than one idea... is less-than-reasonable in a philosophical discourse.

2) Please elaborate on the etymology: > religion > oppression, I rather doubt that it works quite that way.

3) when you use an absolute such as all evil, be prepared to have your post considered as readily dismissable.

twm

Stirrer  :icon_cute:

Hey it's my topic, I am merely trying to keep her on track. Also, last I looked, it said: 'critical thinking required', up top of this board. I don't think I'm stirring, just trying to nip some types of discourse - in a forum called philosophy - in the bud.

the middle troll

having fun though?

Is that not the point of all of this stuff?

Yes.

tmw

good.

I am about as anti- as one can be, when you get down to what gets down in the name of God, by religions.

My whole thought is that when you get to where you won't argue reasonably, because you are going by a belief system that has become dogmatic, you are becoming part of the self-same problem.

TMW

You said "Define religion"

That is pretty open.

I defined it how it is how I have seen it, not how it should be. Every bigot I have encountered has used religion to attack me or others I know. Christians and Muslims have been fighting each other since the beginning of time and guess what? They are fighting now killing each other in the name of God.

I can say religion is the root of all evil. You did not specify what religion or who's belief system to define.

I believe man created god not the other way around. Man also created evil, for without man there would be no evil.

The dictonary definition is such:

1.) A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny
2.) An institution to express belief in a divine power.

To me, religion in the true sense means the pure love of our souls for God.

Quote from: Lori on June 02, 2007, 03:49:01 PM
The ideology of it is good, but used by man it's the downfall of society.

Indeed.  Religion is not evil per se.  The people who organize it tend to be.  I think that people in general have done so many atrocities in this world and absolved themselves of sin by using the name of God and the church. If you are familiar with the Spanish Inquisition, you will know what I am trying to say.  The slaughter of the Latin American tribes was all perfectly okay according to "Jesus". That's the trick, I think, God and man shouldn't mix. No one should be able to tell you what God thinks, for everyone needs to make those decisions for themselves, including the people who are being (were) killed.


tink :icon_chick:

I believe that religion is a way of life that looks beyond our mortality to explain our existance and continuation after our death.  It sets basic ground rules for morality and decency.  It promotes a faith in a deity who has some control over our existence.

Religion on its own is benign.

Religion often provides the conduit by which those seeking power control the masses.  Religions have a loyal following already... why not sieze it to do with it what you will?

Cindi

Religion is the most widely accepted alternative to reality.

Guys, is it possible to post your thoughts as to the "definition of religion" without attacking all religion or religion in general? Do try to remember, that many members of this forum hold to just as many religious traditions and beliefs.

Please remember that we need to respect everyone, including those of faith. The Philosophy forum is not going to digress into a religion-bashing forum.

Thank you.

Quote from: David W. Shelton on June 02, 2007, 11:00:44 PM
Guys, is it possible to post your thoughts as to the "definition of religion" without attacking all religion or religion in general? Do try to remember, that many members of this forum hold to just as many religious traditions and beliefs.

Please remember that we need to respect everyone, including those of faith. The Philosophy forum is not going to digress into a religion-bashing forum.

Thank you.

I do not see it as we are bashing religion at all. The point of this post was to give our own unique definition of religion. For some of us, religion is seen more as a hindrance than a help to society. We are not saying anyone is wrong for believing in a particular religion so I think it is only fair that we be allowed to not believe. :)

It's no more "okay" for a person of faith to post that their belief is that all (blank) go to "hell" than it is "okay" for someone else to post that they think that all religion is the "root of all evil."

Please keep that in mind. Stick to the topic. Thanks.

UPDATE: This thread has been moved to the Spirituality forum.

Quote from: Lori on June 02, 2007, 03:49:01 PM
Religion, the root of all evil.
It's the excuse used to do bad or ill things unto others.
It's the word oppression is based on
It's the idea that starts wars.

The ideology of it is good, but used by man it's the downfall of society.

Is this your opinion or a statement of fact? Please clarify.

THANKS

Quote from: Katia on June 02, 2007, 02:18:39 PM
i suppose you want my opinion on religion and not the typical definition you'll find in a dictionary, yes?

religion is a morbid social perversion utilizing fascism and primitive magical-thought and fear-based paradigms of spirituality to subjugate, dominate and control the feeble-minded.

there.  ;)

:: DUCKS :: Well, let's just say that I see it a little differently. However, I do think you have a point. "Religion" in general is definitely used to control in some cases. And that's as tragic as it is wrong.

I'm just glad that there are those of us who utilize faith and compassion to reach out with love-based paradigms of spiritality to heal, serve, and encourage everyone from the "feeble-minded" to the brilliant.

I do think that it's a little unfair to imply that people of faith are all feeble-minded. But that's just me! :)

Religion is a system whereby you believe that something or someone is above you and you fear the consequences of your actions against their actions and will.

Having seen one of these evil religious controlling types at work (e.g. my dad, who has increased the amount of poor helpless devotees threefold since taking up office) I think that it's a lot harder to control people than you think. I also think that seeing the amount of work he does, and the amount of good he does is typical of local religious leaders.

Also I think those that used religion against you were hiding their own unease with your transgression of social boundaries. The Spanish Inquisition was used as a way of keeping the rich, prosperous and booming society under strict control and the extermination of the native populations due partly to stupidity and mostly to greed. Why such things were not questioned, it may be the excuse of religion - but that's all, an excuse - not an actual cause.

Though I still could never join one.

Hrm, religion. Fun thought.

A unified, rigidly(?) structured, belief system.

Any of the examples I can think of are rigidly structured anyway. I think that is what makes me run and hide the most; They think they are right so much they can not accept that they are wrong. (An it does not help that I have reason to believe that things aren't as advertised in ways)


^*shrug*

I supposed if we wanted to be snarky we could define religion as a human social behavior. Which it is, but it is more than that.

^{*shrugs again*}

Ye old sand in the wind...

(=

Good religions will tell you to think for yourself.

Bad religions will tell you to think what they tell you.

I think if Christians would remember that "true religion" according to the Bible is "caring for the widows and orphans..."

Maybe they'd stop pointing fingers so darn much.

Ooph. That's a monstrous of a question, innit?  ~laugh~ The word comes from the Latin religio, meaning I bind up again, or I tie again.
Personally, spirituality is a better approach as it doesn't tie you down unless that's your party trick.

Quote from: Butterfly on June 03, 2007, 12:04:57 PM
The word comes from the Latin religio, meaning I bind up again, or I tie again.

Best reply yet, IMO.

Quote from: Pica Pica on June 02, 2007, 04:27:03 PM

Just a pity they are founded on bunches of silly stories that's all.

Define silly. By example(s).

Quote from: The Middle Way on June 10, 2007, 06:35:09 PM

Quote from: Butterfly on June 03, 2007, 12:04:57 PM
The word comes from the Latin religio, meaning I bind up again, or I tie again.

Best reply yet, IMO.

Quote from: Pica Pica on June 02, 2007, 04:27:03 PM

Just a pity they are founded on bunches of silly stories that's all.

Define silly. By example(s).

For example, swapping sex for mandrakes, Genesis 30 14-17

"And Reuben went in the days of wheat harvest, and found mandrakes in the field, and brought them unto his mother Leah. Then Rachel said to Leah, Give me, I pray thee, of thy son's mandrakes. And she said unto her, Is it a small matter that thou hast taken my husband? and wouldest thou take away my son's mandrakes also? And Rachel said, Therefore he shall lie with thee to night for thy son's mandrakes. And Jacob came out of the field in the evening, and Leah went out to meet him, and said, Thou must come in unto me; for surely I have hired thee with my son's mandrakes. And he lay with her that night."

Quote from: Pica Pica on June 11, 2007, 06:51:52 AM

Quote from: The Middle Way on June 10, 2007, 06:35:09 PM

Quote from: Pica Pica on June 02, 2007, 04:27:03 PM

Just a pity they are founded on bunches of silly stories that's all.

Define silly. By example(s).

For example, swapping sex for mandrakes, Genesis 30 14-17

"And Reuben went in the days of wheat harvest, and found mandrakes in the field, and brought them unto his mother Leah. Then Rachel said to Leah, Give me, I pray thee, of thy son's mandrakes. And she said unto her, Is it a small matter that thou hast taken my husband? and wouldest thou take away my son's mandrakes also? And Rachel said, Therefore he shall lie with thee to night for thy son's mandrakes. And Jacob came out of the field in the evening, and Leah went out to meet him, and said, Thou must come in unto me; for surely I have hired thee with my son's mandrakes. And he lay with her that night."

Ok, that is a very silly story. I seriously doubt that it is a founding sort of story. [You said 'founded on bunches of silly stories', and have reduced the thing accordingly.] There just might be some more gratifying stories than your example, out there, somewhere.

Life is, reality is, to me, just stories. Modeled more or less on earlier stories. Religion is based on stories, to try and get some kind of handle on what is largely inexplicable, origin, purpose, how and why sort of stuff. So there might be a beautiful story or three, around, you know, that might serve as a good model.

Quote from: Butterfly on June 03, 2007, 12:04:57 PM
The word comes from the Latin religio, meaning I bind up again, or I tie again.

Quote from: The Middle Way on June 10, 2007, 06:35:09 PM
Best reply yet, IMO.

Linguistically, Yoke and Yoga are similar. To yoke, to tie. Yoga is equivalent to Unity.
Now this, conferred with your Latin, suggests the thought to me that sometimes we might look to be tied to something Other Than Our Selves, or That Which Is Greater Than I. But that we might err in considering that this Greater Than I is separate from the being that *one* is.

tmw

I knew you would pick me up on that. Good one about the mandrake though aint it?

It's Monty Python though, innit? I mean, Stop it, this is silly!

I will agree with you that social life is formed on stories and as social stories much of the Bible is very good. As social currency those stories are good, and I've already argued about the good social things that religion does. I think it is when those stories are taken out of social life and but into the physical world that it becomes silly. Thus, God creating the world in 6 days is a good social story - talking about humanity's place in the world, the power of the social abstraction called God. But it is silly when deemed as scientific theory a la intelligent design.

Ok.... what you just said is so totally a given in my book.

My whole point, Pica, is that there are a lot of good stories out there. Beautiful stories, gloriously silly, wonderful stories, heartbreaking stories, that - imagine it - are not intended as facts, necessarily.

Some of these stories appear to be Universal, and occur in most of your 'religions'. There might be some good clues in there.

The founding story in the Bible (which is so not a fave of mine), as it reads, is to me a kind of messed-up story. Something might have got lost in translation between those dudes on drugs or whatever in the desert two millenia ago, and this pseudo-Shakespearan English we know in the West as 'The Bible', I don't know.

But I might have to ability to get beyond the language that bugs me in such a tale, and get a kind of a clue, perhaps, as to something like 'the meaning of life', even from this arcana. ["My" version of it, one can find in the topic "damned if you do..."]

I suspect that something that has worked this well for this long, in an inhabitable universe, might contain design features, that are hard to surpass... It is after all the most beautiful day, and the air even smells ineffably sweet. My reading of physics indicates to me, that of all possible universes that might work, this one would be a hard one to do.

On the other hand (the comic book character called), Mr Natural, to his acolyte, flaky foont, in response to the musical question: 'But what does it all mean, Mr Natural?': (The Natch spits and sez) 'It don't mean shee-it.'

TMW/NOTA