Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I know this kind of thing has been brought up numerous times on here. Lately men have been holding the door for me and I'm not sure how to feel about it. It's nice, but seems like kind of an outdated gesture. I guess that's the feminist in me. I mean I've held the door for people regardless of gender. However it's often different when men do it for women. They will go out of their way to do it for us. I'll do it when it's convenient.

Yesterday as I was walking up to the entrance of my therapist's building. I noticed an elderly man with a walker going in the same building and this young man was holding the door for him. The entrance has two sets of doors separated by a small space. As the elderly man got to the second set of doors and opened one side. I decided to be nice to an elder like the young man. When I opened the other side. He stopped and said something like after you, I forget exactly what he said. So I walked through and said thank you. Then as I was going up the stairs (she's only on the third floor and I need the exercise) I could hear him struggling to get through the door. That was pretty awkward. I guess the elderly man was doing the gentlemanly thing. Holding the door for a lady. I just wish he could have let me hold the door for him.

It's what men do. 

I say let men be men.

I suppose so. I'm not really complaining. Just it can lead to awkwardness.

I always hold the door open for anyone behind me.  Like you, I view it as more of a common courtesy as opposed to something gender specific *shrug*

Admittedly, it's pretty hilarious to watch guys hold a door open for a girl just to awkwardly check her out as she walks through.

Quote from: Horizon on May 15, 2013, 09:26:29 PM
I always hold the door open for anyone behind me.  Like you, I view it as more of a common courtesy as opposed to something gender specific *shrug*

I'm the same way.  I could care less about the gender role or what not.  It's just nice to keep a door open for someone behind me.  To be honest, I have seen plenty women hold doors open for men as well.  Yeah, the gender roles still exist, but most people just do it to be polite.  Though, I don't like when guys open up a door and then go to the side to allow women to pass through first.  That's a bit patronizing even if meant to be polite.  It would be sufficient to simply hold the door open for the other person once you walk through.

Quote from: SarahLJP on May 15, 2013, 08:43:00 PM
I know this kind of thing has been brought up numerous times on here. Lately men have been holding the door for me and I'm not sure how to feel about it. It's nice, but seems like kind of an outdated gesture. I guess that's the feminist in me. I mean I've held the door for people regardless of gender. However it's often different when men do it for women. They will go out of their way to do it for us. I'll do it when it's convenient.

Yesterday as I was walking up to the entrance of my therapist's building. I noticed an elderly man with a walker going in the same building and this young man was holding the door for him. The entrance has two sets of doors separated by a small space. As the elderly man got to the second set of doors and opened one side. I decided to be nice to an elder like the young man. When I opened the other side. He stopped and said something like after you, I forget exactly what he said. So I walked through and said thank you. Then as I was going up the stairs (she's only on the third floor and I need the exercise) I could hear him struggling to get through the door. That was pretty awkward. I guess the elderly man was doing the gentlemanly thing. Holding the door for a lady. I just wish he could have let me hold the door for him.

Just reply with the standard line, "Age before beauty."   ;)

Quote from: learningtolive on May 15, 2013, 09:41:26 PM

I'm the same way.  I could care less about the gender role or what not.  It's just nice to keep a door open for someone behind me.  To be honest, I have seen plenty women hold doors open for men as well.  Yeah, the gender roles still exist, but most people just do it to be polite.  Though, I don't like when guys open up a door and then go to the side to allow women to pass through first.  That's a bit patronizing even if meant to be polite.  It would be sufficient to simply hold the door open for the other person once you walk through.

Like I said I'll do it when it's convenient regardless of gender too. If I'm near the door. Like Horizon said as a common courtesy. However you know when men are doing it to be a "gentlemen" when they go out of their way to open the door for a woman or certain other situations.

Quote from: Jamie D on May 15, 2013, 09:49:09 PM
Just reply with the standard line, "Age before beauty."   ;)

Good one Jamie. I'll try to remember that if that ever happens again.

Well, it's rude to let a door slam in someones face! If a guy holds a door open for me, I've learned to just keep my head high, smile, and thank them as I go in. Usually it's the older men that stand to the side and allow the woman to go in first because they're taught to do it since they were young.

Not to be ugly, but sometimes I resent the feminist movement for being so wound up and defensive.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 16, 2013, 09:47:57 AM
Not to be ugly, but sometimes I resent the feminist movement for being so wound up and defensive.

It's not a huge deal for me. I'm not going to stop going through doors when men open them for me. I'm always polite. I say thank you and walk through. I also want to try to reiterate there is a difference between common courtesy door holding and men holding doors for women. Men also do the common courtesy one too when it's convenient.

Quote from: SarahLJP on May 16, 2013, 09:31:16 AM
Like I said I'll do it when it's convenient regardless of gender too. If I'm near the door. Like Horizon said as a common courtesy. However you know when men are doing it to be a "gentlemen" when they go out of their way to open the door for a woman or certain other situations.

Yeah, I find that annoying as well.  But I don't think there is anything malevolent in it.  Most people tend to do that because that's what they were taught.  They aren't intentionally assuming anything about women when doing so.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 16, 2013, 09:47:57 AM
Well, it's rude to let a door slam in someones face! If a guy holds a door open for me, I've learned to just keep my head high, smile, and thank them as I go in. Usually it's the older men that stand to the side and allow the woman to go in first because they're taught to do it since they were young.

Not to be ugly, but sometimes I resent the feminist movement for being so wound up and defensive.

I agree with your point.  There are branches of feminism that look for struggles or patriarchy in every aspect of society.  Still, I hate that the fringe has tarnished the logical arguments that many gender egalitarians on both sides make.  People hear feminism or pro equality and they shut their ears.  I think that's unfortunate. 

By the way, I love your hair.  I am so jealous (but in a good way).

"It's nice, but seems like kind of an outdated gesture."
_______________________________

What is wrong with being nice, thoughtful or polite.

Should people just let the door close in your face?  If I happen to be going through a door and someone (male or female) is right behind me, I hold the door.

Is that wrong or insulting?  Not in my way of thinking, it is just common courtesy.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on May 16, 2013, 10:54:28 AM
"It's nice, but seems like kind of an outdated gesture."
_______________________________

What is wrong with being nice, thoughtful or polite.

Should people just let the door close in your face?  If I happen to be going through a door and someone (male or female) is right behind me, I hold the door.

Is that wrong or insulting?  Not in my way of thinking, it is just common courtesy.

There's nothing wrong with being nice or polite. I never said people should let the door slam in your face. I'm not ungrateful for it and I don't mean to sound that way if I do. I don't want men to stop doing it. I've said in previous posts there is a difference between doing it as common courtesy and certain situations when men do it for women. Which men also do it out of common courtesy regardless of gender too.

Quote from: learningtolive on May 16, 2013, 10:44:52 AM
By the way, I love your hair.

Thanks so much!!!

lol, I've had guys hesitate big time when I open a door for them. They look like a possum in headlights. I open doors for anyone out of courtesy. If they don't like it, tough.

I've just noticed this happening for me more too. Eh, as with everything else, it's the thought that counts.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 16, 2013, 09:47:57 AM
Not to be ugly, but sometimes I resent the feminist movement for being so wound up and defensive.

I don't think the feminist movement started from men not having chivalry!  ;)

I am experiencing first hand why women started the feminist movement...and I have only experience being treated second class for less then two years. The thing is....that same man that holds the door open, lets you cut in line, helps you with your flat tire...can be the same man that wouldn't give you an once of credit for knowing something he doesn't!!

This is where a feminist and the other women differ....the feminist has gotten tired of putting up with the BS while the other women (about 90%) just ignore men's inferior complexes and go on with life.

This has been especially hard for me to adjust too....there are certain things I do know as well as men if not better!! but I couldn't convince them if I had all the time in the world. This is where I feel like I'm acting dumb by not saying anything.

I did learn an interesting tid bit on the show Modern Family...the two teenage girls were flirting with two boys...the younger girl kept telling the boys how wrong they were on things....and then bragged about beating them in air hockey. The older girl pulled her aside and said you need to let boys think their right at times and try not to beat them at things even if you can. This will never be attractive to boys. The thing is....girls have learned from an early age that in order to attract men they have to let them feel inferior at times. This then leads to just communicating and associating with men as you grow older. I never learned those experiences as a young girl...probably cause I was a young boy!! :(

oh the holding door thing!!

This is funny!! I have had the door held open for me many times since transitioning...I also continue to hold open for anyone else.

I have always held door open for people behind me....men or women.

The funny thing is!!! pre transition I have had quite a few women let the door slam right in my face....but still had some men and other women hold open door. The biggest change is that now some men will actually wait if I'm a little further back....or I've had some backtrack and open it...that always feels cool when that happens!!  :D

.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 16, 2013, 09:47:57 AM
Well, it's rude to let a door slam in someones face! If a guy holds a door open for me, I've learned to just keep my head high, smile, and thank them as I go in. Usually it's the older men that stand to the side and allow the woman to go in first because they're taught to do it since they were young.

Not to be ugly, but sometimes I resent the feminist movement for being so wound up and defensive.

I agree, I love when men hold the door for me.

Quote from: muuu on May 16, 2013, 09:19:02 PM
I think it's different if you've grown up with it, and have lived with the gender differences for years... especially if you've been somehow abused by a man, which I think is quite common for women.
I don't really think men or trans women who haven't spent many years as female can really judge it, I think it's something you have to experience. The same way a cis person, or a trans person who's seen as cis, can't really judge how much more privileged cis people are than trans people, because they haven't experienced it to the same extent themselves.

I appreciate certain aspects of it. I know what it's like to have your ideas crapped on by men, what it feels like to have men assume you can't do something that you've been doing for years (like programming), to be talked over when you have a good point or even be looked at like you're an idiot for having an opinion. But getting defensive because a guy does something nice? No, I don't get that at all.

You hold the door open for me, I'll smile and thank you. I think men get off on that stuff anyways.

I would like to try and clarify my position. People seem to think that I'm denouncing the act of door holding. Particularly when it comes to men doing it for women. That is not the case at all. I'm for everyone holding the door for anyone. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 16, 2013, 09:54:05 PM
You hold the door open for me, I'll smile and thank you. I think men get off on that stuff anyways.

That's pretty much how I feel. I'm not trying to rock the boat. I wish I hadn't created this thread.