Susan's Place Transgender Resources

My SO is in another city.  I reach out to try and make some friends but they just don't seem motivated to hang out with me.

So I went to a rock show tonight for a band I must have seen about 20 times now.  Always have fun.  Today though was the first time I went as a girl.

I tried to go with someone only to be met with excuses.  So I went alone and I was scared.  What if a guy wants to buy me a beer, I worried.  Instead, first I get this creeper who dances around me tfor asong then this other guy came along who led me in this avante gard polka dance thing before he dipped me.

He.  Dipped.  ME!

I'm not mad.  I'm just in shock.  Y'all know on here I don't think I pass at all.  Tonight, I dunno, maybe I look hot through beer goggles?

But I am so tired of going through this alone.  I see posts about how so many of you have female friends to help you out.  I haven't had that.  At all.  And not for lack of trying.  Just tonight I just wanted to enjoy the show.  While in a way I am grateful for the experience of dancing with a boy and being dipped, I'm definately a lesbian.  Why can't I find any wing girls to do things with me and help keep me out of trouble?  Teach me some things.  Be by friend.

And now I'm going to cry.  Great!  Maybe I should have put this under AAARRRGGHHH?

It's more shock than bummed.  Ok, bummed about the friends thing.

Feelings can be confusing...

I felt trapped with that creeper.  With the dip guy, that's where the shock comes from.  It's really rattled me for some reason.

Quote from: JulieR on May 19, 2013, 01:05:58 AM
I can relate.  I'm still all male on the outside, but it makes me shudder to think of some guy hitting on me.

Same here. Hang in there fellow sisters.

Misato

Sorry you feel like this but I can so relate to how you feel.
Could be good to have a cry as it does let out alot of emotion.
No shame in that. I cried everynight for over six months after my partners accident.

I also feel so alone with this and would love help as you have said to help deal with journey.
Online is not the same as real life but it does help make it a bit easier.

Hugs

J

I tried being polite.  My dipper didn't seem like a bad guy.  I'd call him outright nice actually.

I'm just not used to being sought after I guess.  Chased, at ALL.  I'm used to being left alone.  That's why I wanted some buddies tonight: to help keep me out of trouble.

On-line help certainly isn't the same, especially when IRL situations like tonight happen.  But I'm SO very glad ya'll are here now in the aftermath.

I never go out alone. Most women don't. That said I feel your pain. I'm ecstatic that my bestie from another city is coming to live with me this week. She's cis and I need the female influence BADLY!

Don't worry about it! I stay in the middle of the spectrum most of the time, and get various responses by people in various stages of sobriety when I'm out.... either in that moment you passed, or he was drunk, or he saw who you were but didn't give a chit.... :) Either way, it's okay, right? Having your fun is your responsibility. It sounds like you could have had it but maybe worried yourself out of it? Lesson for next time: you'll be okay. :)

having fun is much easier when you're with friends. i'm sorry you're so lonely right now, hopefully you'll find good friends soon.

 :) You aren't alone...thousands of people are here, with you. ;)

May I suggest (from the other side of the world) that you have a responsibility to yourself (and others after you) to remain as safe as you can.  Where ever there is alcohol there is the potential for creeps.  There are creeps out there without adding alcohol!

Life is a journey, this is yours, walk it safely... :)

Quote from: Misato on May 19, 2013, 01:18:29 AM
I'm just not used to being sought after I guess.  Chased, at ALL.  I'm used to being left alone.  That's why I wanted some buddies tonight: to help keep me out of trouble.

I feel exactly the same way. About a year into transition I started to get random attention from guys when I was out. Like one guy grabbed and kissed me in the elevator even!

I'm used to the "male shield", where no one would have dared look at me very long...let alone speak to me differently (getting pointers from parking attendants or checkout people)...and touching me, that was an impossibility before.

I don't really know what to tell you, I guess eventually you start to get used to it a little bit? Though, not really. I'm still pretty scared when alone anywhere with a guy (like one in the parking garage in my building, or the elevator). I tend to just keep my head down and hope they don't notice me ~_~ And when people ma'am me (or open doors), I get scared that will will realize I'm trans.

Friends won't really help keep you from feeling this way. But they can help a bit if you go out. Maybe try meeting local trans people? I've actually made friends with a few trans people in my area (something I was pretty against actually with my experiences with the "community" during the first year of transition). So that might be a good way to start. Other than that, work? Or interest groups? (I'm involved with game development, so there is a little community build around that, with get-togethers and things ...even though I don't really go out).

Also, just try chatting up people who are nice. Like one time I went shopping alone (I don't really shop for womens clothing that much), and the person at the store was really nice and helpful and didn't bat an eye at me being trans... so we started chatting and I found out she had similar interests and we connected on facebook (not romantically, just friends).

If you aren't very confident, and are afraid to talk to people....or are afraid people will realize you are trans...and always keeping your head down or escaping...it definitely makes it harder to meet people to do stuff with. But with the internet, you can find people in the area and meet and hang out. LGBT centered events or get togethers / groups are a little more "safe", since you don't have to stress about judgement or anything like that ...and you have a built in "membership" (so is a good first step IMO).

The dip sounds kinda sweet,  but I like guys and old films lol.  I have to say I don't appreciate being grabbed and that has happened more,  together with people telling me what to do more.

I feel ur pain with the girl thing.  Just have to keep going.  Go new places try new things.  Should be fun anyway even if you don't meet lasting friends. Hugs.

I've only been doing part-time. About a year ago I saw that the local revival theater was showing Nosfretu and the were have live musical accompiament. A movie I always wanted to see and what better than how it was originally shown? Well better would be as I was, or should have been, orginally born.

I promised myself I'd only go to see it presenting as Joanne. My first time ever out to a social event. I got there early since I am newish in town, never been there before, had no idea about parking etc.. I'm waiting around in the lobby which is set up a bit like a living room. Some older guy (OK my age-ish and a little more) comes over starts chatting me me and eventually asks "So where is your husband?" as he looks down at my rings

Que the Jackie Gleason "Homina homina homina" Don't say what husband! Don't say wife! Just sort of tell the truth, working in NJ still after I got job here.

What a shocker the whole experience was. I never expected it to happen in this lifetime. Never in my life had I had a woman show any sort of interest by approaching me. It also had caused me to take a good long look at at my past experiences with guys.

Sort of living in the role and HRT will cause you to reexamine a lot of things in your life. What makes you happy, what makes you feel empty, alone. Gaining a sense of joy for life and the adventures that lie ahead, the discoveries to be made. Experiencing the wonders of the world and of life through a set of eyes given a new perspective.

A lot like being a kid again.

Misato, I'm going through EXACTLY the same thing. Don't have much to offer other than hoping you can hang in there.

I know a good number of local trans people via group and a potluck I go to.  And I know a few women from work who seem to like me and we did hang out.  Once.  It was her idea.  Since then on my side it's been a lot of unreturned calls, texts and emails.

I felt better when I woke up, now I got the willies again.  I think I had the "realizing I'm trans" concern in play too.  Booze and dudes, what if things got ugly?  Really I've derived a lot of comfort from not passing.  Seemed to exclude me from the games men play with women.  Last night I was having to play, and it felt to me like a deep dive.  Though there have been items where I've been clocked and things got hostile.  So in the grand scheme of things what happened last night was shocking but harmless.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 19, 2013, 01:40:18 AM
I never go out alone. Most women don't.

I saw this last night and just stared at it a while.  The reality that it talks about wouldn't bother me so much if I could make some hang out friends. I was a hermit before transition.  I don't want to be one any more.

Thanks everyone for your feedback.  :)

Oh, I might have used wing girls wrong.  I just meant I needed some backup.

I know what you mean Misasto.  I really wish I had an easier time making friends with other girls.  Female bonding is very special.  I never really cared going out with the boys.  It was always a very awkward thing for me. 

It seems like one of your female coworkers is taking the initiative to become friends.  Why not reciprocate?  You might find a new female friend. 

Quote from: learningtolive on May 19, 2013, 10:43:54 AM
It seems like one of your female coworkers is taking the initiative to become friends.  Why not reciprocate?  You might find a new female friend. 

I asked her to go to the show with me.  She hinted she might but when I followed up I didn't get a response.

I think generally people hang out with people with similar interests. I've always had a lot female friends and I really can't tell you why. I have a lot of either very intellectual female interests like literature and poetry and also maybe more pedestrian pursuits like fashion so that is prob it. I wish I could help you more. People love talking about what they like and what intersts them so if that is interests you it is a natural bond.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on May 19, 2013, 11:50:53 AM
I think generally people hang out with people with similar interests. I've always had a lot female friends and I really can't tell you why. I have a lot of either very intellectual female interests like literature and poetry and also maybe more pedestrian pursuits like fashion so that is prob it. I wish I could help you more. People love talking about what they like and what intersts them so if that is interests you it is a natural bond.

Maybe that's part of my problem, given that I don't know what I like.  All I did for so long was play video games and work.  To remedy, I have taken to saying yes when invited to places or to do new things though.  I go to my writing meetup.  Probably karaoke after my trans potluck group goes on hiatus for the summer....

I'm sorry to hear you were rattled.  I'd love to hang out, but we live too far apart :(.  Are there other meetups in the area you could go to for friends?  I'm thinking a generic social group thing, and not specifically writing.

Quote from: Misato on May 19, 2013, 12:27:47 PM
Maybe that's part of my problem, given that I don't know what I like.  All I did for so long was play video games and work.  To remedy, I have taken to saying yes when invited to places or to do new things though.  I go to my writing meetup.  Probably karaoke after my trans potluck group goes on hiatus for the summer....

That sounds like a great start.  You could also go to random meetup groups in your city or town.  If you are anything like me, you will have fun in any setting as long as it's not a football or sports club,lol.   I didn't even know there are were many meetings for writers.  Perhaps there are, but I have always found my fellow writing and reading nerds to be fairly solitary. 

Try to stay away from gaming to a degree.  It's fun and entertaining in small doses, but it keeps you in the house when you could be doing things outside and meeting new people. 

Quote from: Anna! on May 19, 2013, 01:29:30 PM
I'm sorry to hear you were rattled.  I'd love to hang out, but we live too far apart :(.

I know Anna. :(. Still, I'm hopeful maybe someday!

Quote from: learningtolive on May 19, 2013, 02:19:25 PM
Try to stay away from gaming to a degree.  It's fun and entertaining in small doses, but it keeps you in the house when you could be doing things outside and meeting new people. 

I agree.  I have the stuff to play pathfinder, so table top gaming with people.  Maybe I could get in a group for that? 

I'm sorry you're going through this Misato.. I'm in a similar position but admit do have some contact with people through my work and the occasional social contact.

But I have once gone 22 months without having a meaningful personal conversation with anyone. Not in person. Not by phone. Not even by e-mail.

I did have a close male friend who was a complete rarity - he was both straight and 'got it' when it came to friendship. Sadly he died a couple of months ago.

I think part of the problem is that so many people nowadays find it hard to relate to anyone else other than in purely utilitarian terms. This means that social contact has to have some kind of payoff, whether it's for material, social or sexual reasons. Others are too wrapped up in their work or families and find it hard to get away, even for an evening. 

A major reason why I took up photography is that it would bring me into contact with new people. I'm still persevering, but perhaps you can think of some sort of interest which brings you into contact with people?

That's all I can suggest.

Hi Misato and the others,
I have been following this thread since the first post and have found it so painful to read that I have hesitated all day about getting involved. Finally it is Stella's post which decided me and I hope I can get it right as the last thing I want to do is make anyone feel any worse or throw oïl on the fire.

I don't know enough about any of you individually to be able to say anything very personal but observing over the years, both myself and others, a few things have stood out for me.

Having always been more or less aware of our difference, most of us have spent a large part of our lives with the feeling that we are outsiders, that we don't belong. A natural reaction to this is to become more reclusive than average and I think a good illustration of this is number of IT specialists you find among the FtM community. Far less risk of encountering rejection from a computer than from our fellow human beings.

Next, transitioning can be so obsessive,( just look at the amount of time so many of us spend here...), that we become totally insufferable bores for everyone around us. To understand how damaging this can be to our relationships with others I suggest reading Steve Covey's book "The 7 habits..." in particular the bit about the emotional bank account : http://lifetrainingonline.com/blog/the-emotional-bank-account.htm (http://lifetrainingonline.com/blog/the-emotional-bank-account.htm)

Next, and I know I'm sticking my neck out here, I think it is really foolish to underestimate how uncomfortable people can feel going out with someone whose appearance attracts a lot of more or less negative attention.  Among other things that is why I believe a RLE prior to HRT, and even FFS for those among us who started with a very masculine appearance, is  close to being insane. People generally like to be seen with people who make them look good. It takes a very strong relationship to survive the challenge that going out with someone who makes other people stare eg. a man in a dress, can represent.

If you accept the ideas above, you are left with choices along the following lines.

1.  Transitioning takes precedence over everything else and to hell with the rest of the world

or

2. My relationships and my place in society come first and I will do everthing in my power to insure that my transition does not create more isolation than the isolation that already comes with being part of a tiny minority of the population even if it means making compromises that hurt.

I know very well that it  can be a very difficult choice to make but, realistically, we really are faced with these sort of choices.

I have personally taken a very cautious approach to my transition yet in spite of all my precautions I once pushed forward a little too fast. The result was the loss of my job and at 55 years of age, I thought that was the end of the line. It was one of the  roughest experiences I have ever lived and the reason was not because I thought my own life was very seriously compromised, it was because I felt I had totally betrayed the confidence my wife had placed in me as we have gone through all of this. I was seriously suicidal for several weeks but survived thanks to her help and the help of my therapist.

Happily I did find another job immediately and that experience means I will be that much more careful before making such a move at work again.

For me life without others makes even less sense than life in the wrong gender/body. This has meant making some choices and I wouldn't for a second try to choose for another person. However, I hope this post will throw just a little more light on some of the issues behind those choices for the social beings that we are.

Warmest best wishes to all you fellow travellers.
Donna

Quote from: StellaB on May 19, 2013, 03:32:19 PM
I think part of the problem is that so many people nowadays find it hard to relate to anyone else other than in purely utilitarian terms. This means that social contact has to have some kind of payoff, whether it's for material, social or sexual reasons. Others are too wrapped up in their work or families and find it hard to get away, even for an evening. 

It certainly feels like this is the case.  I guess it's understandable too.  If I, say, had a youngin' I imagine I'd be pretty wrapped up in them too.  I bet I'd see other people then too at the kid's soccer games and the like.  Maybe that's the meetup I gotta find, 30's and no kids.

I feel blessed that just about everywhere I've gone since coming out I've felt accepted.  Even last night.  While creepy and shocking to me, those two guys were just trying to have a good time.  In the moment with my dipper I did want to take advantage of being offered cisgender privilege of a boy dancing with a girl.  Heck when we were done I tried a courtesy, despite not wearing a skirt at the time, in thanks.  It was just I could have used a girlfriend coming in to rescue me from the creeper or just being with someone to keep the creeper away in the first place.

Going in all worked up that something might go wrong and then everything happening... it was just too much too fast.

I should note that I see in my SO, her having the same socialization problems that I'm having.  All she does is work and the friends she does have are 7 to 10 years younger than her.

Quote from: Donna Elvira on May 19, 2013, 04:43:44 PM

1.  Transitioning takes precedence over everything else and to hell with the rest of the world

or

2. My relationships and my place in society come first and I will do everthing in my power to insure that my transition does not create more isolation than the isolation that already comes with being part of a tiny minority of the population even if it means making compromises that hurt.

I know very well that it  can be a very difficult choice to make but, realistically, we really are faced with these sort of choices.


For me life without others makes even less sense than life in the wrong gender/body. This has meant making some choices and I wouldn't for a second try to choose for another person. However, I hope this post will throw just a little more light on some of the issues behind those choices for the social beings that we are.

Warmest best wishes to all you fellow travellers.
Donna

Donna,
       Well spoken, your entire post is absolutely true and right on point, there are really just three choices, Number 1, number 2, or forget it entirely and move on with your life as usual!

After enjoying some ice cream I got to thinking.  Little has changed for me socially with my transition up to now.  Yeah, I interact with people a lot more but it hasn't been wholly different than what I did when I looked like a guy.  Last night, I had a very female centric experience.  It would have been nice to have some girlfriends there to sqeeeee with.  I bet that would have taken the edge right off and allowed me to squeeeeeee instead of freak out.

Thanks everyone.  I still feel a little rattled and I'm glad I have a therapy appointment tomorrow but I am glad ya'll and this place were here for me!

Quote from: Donna Elvira on May 19, 2013, 04:43:44 PM
Hi Misato and the others,
I have been following this thread since the first post and have found it so painful to read that I have hesitated all day about getting involved. Finally it is Stella's post which decided me and I hope I can get it right as the last thing I want to do is make anyone feel any worse or throw oïl on the fire.

I don't know enough about any of you individually to be able to say anything very personal but observing over the years, both myself and others, a few things have stood out for me.

Having always been more or less aware of our difference, most of us have spent a large part of our lives with the feeling that we are outsiders, that we don't belong. A natural reaction to this is to become more reclusive than average and I think a good illustration of this is number of IT specialists you find among the FtM community. Far less risk of encountering rejection from a computer than from our fellow human beings.

Next, transitioning can be so obsessive,( just look at the amount of time so many of us spend here...), that we become totally insufferable bores for everyone around us. To understand how damaging this can be to our relationships with others I suggest reading Steve Covey's book "The 7 habits..." in particular the bit about the emotional bank account : http://lifetrainingonline.com/blog/the-emotional-bank-account.htm (http://lifetrainingonline.com/blog/the-emotional-bank-account.htm)

Next, and I know I'm sticking my neck out here, I think it is really foolish to underestimate how uncomfortable people can feel going out with someone whose appearance attracts a lot of more or less negative attention.  Among other things that is why I believe a RLE prior to HRT, and even FFS for those among us who started with a very masculine appearance, is  close to being insane. People generally like to be seen with people who make them look good. It takes a very strong relationship to survive the challenge that going out with someone who makes other people stare eg. a man in a dress, can represent.

If you accept the ideas above, you are left with choices along the following lines.

1.  Transitioning takes precedence over everything else and to hell with the rest of the world

or

2. My relationships and my place in society come first and I will do everthing in my power to insure that my transition does not create more isolation than the isolation that already comes with being part of a tiny minority of the population even if it means making compromises that hurt.

I know very well that it  can be a very difficult choice to make but, realistically, we really are faced with these sort of choices.

I have personally taken a very cautious approach to my transition yet in spite of all my precautions I once pushed forward a little too fast. The result was the loss of my job and at 55 years of age, I thought that was the end of the line. It was one of the  roughest experiences I have ever lived and the reason was not because I thought my own life was very seriously compromised, it was because I felt I had totally betrayed the confidence my wife had placed in me as we have gone through all of this. I was seriously suicidal for several weeks but survived thanks to her help and the help of my therapist.

Happily I did find another job immediately and that experience means I will be that much more careful before making such a move at work again.

For me life without others makes even less sense than life in the wrong gender/body. This has meant making some choices and I wouldn't for a second try to choose for another person. However, I hope this post will throw just a little more light on some of the issues behind those choices for the social beings that we are.

Warmest best wishes to all you fellow travellers.
Donna

Very good post Donna.

It is true that many of us tend to isolate ourselves because of our condition.  I can say a great deal of my childhood was spent doing such a thing.  Oddly enough, I have always believed transitioning would make things easier in social situations.  I've always desired to interact with others as female and not have to worry about acting like a man.  Just be myself and have fun.  Be like any other girl in her early twenties.  Yet, on the other hand, transitioning can be isolating and further remove you from social interaction.  It's a double edge sword.  But I think that all I can hope is that I'll one day be able to live as any other girl and live a happy life.  I have many accomplishments and connections that may be thrown away once I'm out, but it's not worth having if I can't be happy.  We should live and enjoy lives as ourselves, not as an unhappy robot.  Still, there are sacrifices to be made and it will never be an easy path.

Quote from: learningtolive on May 20, 2013, 12:01:16 AM
Very good post Donna.

It is true that many of us tend to isolate ourselves because of our condition.  I can say a great deal of my childhood was spent doing such a thing.  Oddly enough, I have always believed transitioning would make things easier in social situations.  I've always desired to interact with others as female and not have to worry about acting like a man.  Just be myself and have fun.  Be like any other girl in her early twenties.  Yet, on the other hand, transitioning can be isolating and further remove you from social interaction.  It's a double edge sword.  But I think that all I can hope is that I'll one day be able to live as any other girl and live a happy life.  I have many accomplishments and connections that may be thrown away once I'm out, but it's not worth having if I can't be happy.  We should live and enjoy lives as ourselves, not as an unhappy robot.  Still, there are sacrifices to be made and it will never be an easy path.

Hi there "Learningtolive" (Maybe a real name some day?)
In reaction to your post, self acceptance, the first major step in transitioning, should already help in social situations as love of others starts with love of yourself.  From that point of view, I can affirm quite explicitly that by recognizing my own needs I have become more aware and sensitive to the needs of those around me.  Even my kids tell me this.

Afterwards, the transition period itself is pretty complicated to manage, especially for older people like me who were already massively interconnected with others as a male. So many people to come out to and to get on board. For someone younger, like you, it should in theory be considerably less so. However, in all cases I think it consumes a huge amount of energy which is not available for other things whether that be work or managing our relationships with those around us. For example, I have spent my last two annual vacations doing surgery (FFS) which means that my wife had no real vacation either. I do actively try to make it up to her in other ways and this year we have planned a really nice vacation but I would have to say that I have been blessed with an exceptionally  supportive and patient life partner.   

I don't know if we can ever hope to live " as any other girl", all depends on what you read into that,  but I certainly believe we can can succeed in living successful lives socially as women, including finding and keeping life-partners. Like in any other relationship, sensitivity to the other person's needs as well as own own ie.  ""seeking first to understand then to be understood" is a key element of this and my own experience brings me to believe that this is particularly difficult during the actual transition period when so much of our energy is turned inwards.

From all of your posts, you are a visibly a very thoughtful person and I am sure you will find a way to get it right at the end of the day. By the way, while I am at it, I am also sure that you mother and sisters must be aware that there is a lot going on in your mind right now.  Don't you think it is finally time to put everyone out of their misery?  :)
Take care.
Donna