Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Is being a transsexual a mental disorder?

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000085895&story_title=Kenya-The%20Nairobian:%20Is%20being%20a%20transsexual%20%20a%20mental%20disorder? (http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000085895&story_title=Kenya-The%20Nairobian:%20Is%20being%20a%20transsexual%20%20a%20mental%20disorder?)
6/13/13
By Gardy Chacha

For the past few weeks, the media has been awash with the story of Audrey Mbugua – formerly Andrew Mbugua – who claims to be a woman despite being born a man.

Meeting Audrey for the first time, one can easily fall in love with her beauty and feministic charm.

Audrey is a transgender person (transformed from a male to a female).

The big question then is; how does a man feel female intrinsically despite having genitalia and a body? What's the biology behind it?

Kia Ora,

Suffering from this condition one can and often does (for some) develop into a mental disorder...

"A mental disorder or psychiatric disorder is a psychological pattern or anomaly, potentially reflected in behaviour, that is generally associated with distress or disability, and which is not considered part of normal development in a person's culture!"

Is being trans distressful ? Is being trans stressful (can cause a stress related disorder) ?

Metta Zenda :)

To answer the question posed by the topic, I would say that being transgender is a correctable disorder, not unlike nearsightedness, scoliosis, or overbite.

I was always assured it is and that's why we are treated for it. Sometimes hospitalized for secondary issues related to it

Kia Ora,

One as only to read some of the posts/threads to know that suffering from (or if you like being born with) this congenital/medical'condition' (and if let unattended) can push one over the edge ( over the threshold of mental stability) ...

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: suzifrommd on June 21, 2013, 08:19:57 AM
To answer the question posed by the topic, I would say that being transgender is a correctable disorder, not unlike nearsightedness, scoliosis, or overbite.

I may be reading you wrong. Are you saying it's not a mental disorder because it's correctable? Because many Axis I disorders can be corrected. The things you mentioned are physical only, not related to anything mental. I don't feel it's accurate to compare GID to those.

Anyway, yes I feel it's a mental disorder by definition.

I see it as a medical condition which when left untreated can cause serious secondary issues related to mental health.

Quote from: Chamillion on June 24, 2013, 03:02:14 PM
I may be reading you wrong. Are you saying it's not a mental disorder because it's correctable? Because many Axis I disorders can be corrected. The things you mentioned are physical only, not related to anything mental. I don't feel it's accurate to compare GID to those.

Anyway, yes I feel it's a mental disorder by definition.

I agree. Definitely a mental disorder.

I used those examples because they are conditions that, when corrected, leave people perfectly capable of dealing with life. I.e. they are largely stigma-free.

Quote from: suzifrommd on June 24, 2013, 04:34:59 PM
I agree. Definitely a mental disorder.

I used those examples because they are conditions that, when corrected, leave people perfectly capable of dealing with life. I.e. they are largely stigma-free.

Ah okay, gotcha!

Personally, I don't like the term "disorder," because of the largely negative connotation.  I am glad that it is being discarded, along with the pseudo-scientific psychobabble that led to its definition, by quacks such as Dr. (sic) John Money.

I see ->-bleeped-<- as a relatively "rare" (estimated 1 in every ~ 333 people) manifestation of a congenital medical and physiological condition.  I'm not crazy.  I'm not deformed.  I'm just me, and perfectly capable of functioning in the cisworld - albeit with the knowledge of my variance from the "norm."  There is nothing "wrong" with me - just something different.

It is a medical condition but I dont feel it right to call it a mental disorder as if implying there is something wrong with us. The issues this brings can materialise as mental disorders (depression etc) but I wouldnt call GD itself a mental illness. It has been stated in an NHS document that GD itself is not a mental illness: http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Transhealth/Documents/gender-dysphoria-guide-for-gps-and-other-health-care-staff.pdf (http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Transhealth/Documents/gender-dysphoria-guide-for-gps-and-other-health-care-staff.pdf)

'It should be emphasised that Gender Dysphoria and Transsexualism are not considered, in and of themselves, mental illnesses in any essential sense. The associated pressures of unmanaged dysphoria and/or the social stigma that can accompany gender diagnosis and transition may, however, result in clinically significant levels of distress'

I think of it bringing the problems with it, rather than itself being a psychiatric illness. I dont consider myself mentally ill for being the way I am. My mental illness is my associated depression which in itself is linked to this

I don't know what to think!, and this really didn't clear the issue for me. At the moment this is foremost on my mind, too, as it's a question I directly asked my therapist.

She said it's not like people wake up and say "gee I think I'll be heterosexual, or Transexual or anything", and that, essentualy, we're just us, whatever that may be.

Everything I read, and my therapist, tell me that it's not a mental disorder. Even my own thoughts on it are starting to lean that way. I mean . . . for me? The only issue, the single, only thing that TRULY bothers me about it, is I don't know how other people will react.

Will my wife leave me? Will I be able to find employment after college? Will my parents ever speak to me again? Will people try to harm me? Will students I teach take me seriously?

... The only thing holding me back is other people.

I have zero doubts. I would work hard and be willing to do whatever it takes to pass, even if I wind up not being able to compleatly do so. That would be enough for me. I'm not out to trick men or invade the sanctity of women, nor do I feel this way as some kind of sexual fettish. I JUST WANT TO BE ME! Sure there's a lot to learn and think about. But ... what's stopping me from making the plunge and do something?

Other people.

Outside of cost, other people are the problem, the only barrier in front of me. Not me.

I just want to be myself. I don't want to hurt anyone, or scare people. How's that a mental problem? What's wrong with that?

But on the other hand . . . there's no denying it. It's different. I bet most people around here have never even seen a transexual, aside for closet cases like me. It's ... Different. Strange. Crazy! At least . . . that's how I think people will react, especialy here in small town Kansas.

And with that one thought, that thought that other people will look at me and think "You're crazy!" despite everything above that I said, I'm left wondering . . .

Am I a fruit cake?

...It's 2:30AM. I've been up for hours thinking about this very thing.

I think it's time to give up, admit I don't freaking know . . . and get some sleep and leave it to people better qualified than me to answer it.

Quote from: AmyBosch on June 26, 2013, 02:32:45 AM
I don't know what to think!, and this really didn't clear the issue for me. At the moment this is foremost on my mind, too, as it's a question I directly asked my therapist.

She said it's not like people wake up and say "gee I think I'll be heterosexual, or Transexual or anything", and that, essentualy, we're just us, whatever that may be.

Everything I read, and my therapist, tell me that it's not a mental disorder. Even my own thoughts on it are starting to lean that way. I mean . . . for me? The only issue, the single, only thing that TRULY bothers me about it, is I don't know how other people will react.

Will my wife leave me? Will I be able to find employment after college? Will my parents ever speak to me again? Will people try to harm me? Will students I teach take me seriously?

... The only thing holding me back is other people.

I have zero doubts. I would work hard and be willing to do whatever it takes to pass, even if I wind up not being able to compleatly do so. That would be enough for me. I'm not out to trick men or invade the sanctity of women, nor do I feel this way as some kind of sexual fettish. I JUST WANT TO BE ME! Sure there's a lot to learn and think about. But ... what's stopping me from making the plunge and do something?

Other people.

Outside of cost, other people are the problem, the only barrier in front of me. Not me.

I just want to be myself. I don't want to hurt anyone, or scare people. How's that a mental problem? What's wrong with that?

But on the other hand . . . there's no denying it. It's different. I bet most people around here have never even seen a transexual, aside for closet cases like me. It's ... Different. Strange. Crazy! At least . . . that's how I think people will react, especialy here in small town Kansas.

And with that one thought, that thought that other people will look at me and think "You're crazy!" despite everything above that I said, I'm left wondering . . .

Am I a fruit cake?

...It's 2:30AM. I've been up for hours thinking about this very thing.

I think it's time to give up, admit I don't freaking know . . . and get some sleep and leave it to people better qualified than me to answer it.

I know how you feel, I am not the thing holding me back from "Coming Out" Its just what others would say. As you so mildly put it, people might call me a "Fruit Cake" and I don't like fruit cake. . . .
But you make some points that i totally agree with.

Quote from: Jamie D on June 25, 2013, 02:43:49 PM
Personally, I don't like the term "disorder," because of the largely negative connotation.  I am glad that it is being discarded, along with the pseudo-scientific psychobabble that led to its definition, by quacks such as Dr. (sic) John Money.

I see ->-bleeped-<- as a relatively "rare" (estimated 1 in every ~ 333 people) manifestation of a congenital medical and physiological condition.  I'm not crazy.  I'm not deformed.  I'm just me, and perfectly capable of functioning in the cisworld - albeit with the knowledge of my variance from the "norm."  There is nothing "wrong" with me - just something different.

I think that this is the best assessment of what ->-bleeped-<- is and what it isn't. I have a huge issue seeing it as a mental disorder as well. Just because it has been classified as a disorder in the past does not make it so.

"Hell is other people."

It is possible that if all of society were no longer dogmatic about classifying people by their genitals and absolutely accepting of everyone's self-stated identity, many/most/all of us trans people would just go about our business without HRT and surgery and all of that. We can't know how much the GENITAL binary messes without us and forces us to want the "right" genitals and bodies.

Quote from: Arch on July 08, 2013, 12:05:17 PM
"Hell is other people."

It is possible that if all of society were no longer dogmatic about classifying people by their genitals and absolutely accepting of everyone's self-stated identity, many/most/all of us trans people would just go about our business without HRT and surgery and all of that. We can't know how much the GENITAL binary messes without us and forces us to want the "right" genitals and bodies.

I understand what you're getting at Arch. It would be a much better world for us if people didn't gender each other and accepted peoples self-stated identity.

But I have to say that for me, being transgender is not a social thing. My brain was wired to want my body shaped a certain way. Regardless of how well people do or don't accept me, I still would want the physical changes that HRT and surgery bring and experience dysphoria without them.

Quote from: Natasha on June 21, 2013, 12:06:51 AM
The big question then is; how does a man feel female intrinsically despite having genitalia and a body? What's the biology behind it?

Very controversial topic.
If we're talking about a biological predisposition...  current research is pointing towards the effects and timing of hormones during prenatal development.
I'm not qualified to talk at length on the subject, but what follows is an abstract representing the direction some of this research is taking.

**************************
Sexual hormones and the brain: an essential alliance for sexual identity and sexual orientation.
Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF.
Source

Netherlands Institute for Neuroscience, Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
Abstract

The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.

Copyright 2010 S. Karger AG, Basel.

**************************

All that being said... biology is not destiny.  It is still possible to be socialized as male, female, someplace in between... or to remain largely unsocialized as either gender.   

If there is any 'disorder' related to being transgender, it doesn't involve biology.  The biology simply represents a natural variation in prenatal development.  The 'disorder' is a result of the conflict between biology, socialization and social acceptance.   If sex, gender, sexual attraction, socialization and gender role all match up to what society expects... congratulations!  You've won a free pass in the gender binary grand prix.

If any part of this mix is in conflict then you are more susceptible to personality disorders that may develop from destructive socialization and conditioning, i.e. social isolation, shame, fear of violence, fear of losing family/tribe, loss of authenticity, emotional distance, and generally just trying to conform to an ideal that is not genuinely "you".  Billions of people have the same sense of male or female gender identity as you do and they suffer no ill effects.  Your gender identity is normal.  It just happens to be in conflict with other aspects of your body and societal biases.

Soooo.... the obvious follow-up question is... if there is a biological basis, can it be cured?
...I'd say, lets not go there.   
Although there is some interesting research in gene therapy and gene triggers, making changes in utero would be unethical and making changes after someone reaches the age of consent probably would not alleviate any issues compounded by socialization.  (If we are talking theoretically, we should also be able to isolate the brain chemistry that predisposes individuals to be anti-lgbt legislators.  Let's find a cure for that before tinkering with the biology for gender identity.)

Sorry for the length and dryness of the post.   I know not everyone appreciates this and would prefer a more spiritual explanation.  If you are interested in additional research that is being done, google "aebrain gender identity" or "brain gender identity", (and ignore any links to studies that are more than 10 years old.)

Quote from: suzifrommd on July 08, 2013, 12:16:50 PM
But I have to say that for me, being transgender is not a social thing. My brain was wired to want my body shaped a certain way.

How do you know that this desire was programmed from birth? Our brains are dramatically changed by our experiences; can you truly say that it didn't happen that way for you? If you were two or three years old and everyone said you were a boy and you felt that you were a girl, that's what makes you definable as a transsexual. But maybe your brain craved the "right" body because all around you, 24/7, as far as the eye could see, all the other girls had "girls'" bodies, so that's what you started wanting from an early age, maybe even before you were consciously aware of the differences.

We'll never know for sure in my lifetime, and it's quite possible that some trans are one way, some another, and others a combination.

I strongly feel that I need a typical male body to be right, but I do acknowledge that maybe the desire was programmed into my brain by a constant bombardment of unrelenting social stimuli.

What's a mental disorder?

I sort of recall Ian McKellen's response to Michael Parkinson in an interview. He was asked if it was strange growing up as a homosexual man. His reply was he didn't know, and was it strange for Michael Parkinson to grow as a heterosexual man?

So my thought is if being trans* gendered is a mental disorder than also is being non-trans*gendered.

Oh and by the way I know of no psychiatrists in Australia who regard trans*gender as a mental disorder, yes some trans* people have co-morbidities that they require help for, but that is often because of the life problems we have had growing up.

Just my 15 cents (inflation you know)

Cindy

Quote from: Arch on July 08, 2013, 12:05:17 PMIt is possible that if all of society were no longer dogmatic about classifying people by their genitals and absolutely accepting of everyone's self-stated identity, many/most/all of us trans people would just go about our business without HRT and surgery and all of that. We can't know how much the GENITAL binary messes without us and forces us to want the "right" genitals and bodies.

I think there are a couple of areas of study recently that indicate gender has a stronger physiological component than used to be believed and a smaller social component.

1 - Research with newborn babies shows behavioural differences between the genders. Within hours of birth, baby boys attention is held longer by things that move while infant girls are more attentive to faces. (There were some other points that I don't remember.)

2 - Psychologists recognize that a baby/child's development proceeds at a different pace and different order between male children and female children.

3 - Many children how turn out to be transsexual exhibit 'cross-gender behaviour' very early in life and persist despite attempts to discourage such behaviour.

(Although I had always believed in "free will" over biology my personal experience shot down my own beliefs.

I was born out of wedlock and my mother gave me up for adoption at 5 weeks of age. I  grew up without ever knowing my mother or anything about here and was raised in a different culture and in adverse circumstances. I made a lot of decisions about the kind of person I wanted to grow up to be and I was always very different than anyone else I knew in terms of personality, disposition, sense of humour, and likes/dislikes.

I met my birth mother when I was 40 and found out that I was an exact copy of her in every way. We had the same type of personality, same disposition, sense of humour, and the same likes and dislikes. I could read her like an open book - and she could read me - because "we were the same person", just 20 years difference in age and raised in different cultures yet we ended up the same.

I had to revise my thinking on the role of biology in who we become!)

Exuse me

Why is everyone ignoring the most obvious point - the article is quoting an outdated book the DSM IV is no longer the one is use the DSM V has been officially Released

the diagnosis is now Gender Dysphoria - and I consider what I have a birth defect - society is what  has the defect if anyone has.