Susan's Place Transgender Resources

okay i was reading someone's post and she said the doctor mad her have to date men if she wanted HRT. this is so mean and discrimatory. Does no-one know that 30% of transwomen are lesbian. anyway I'm bisexual so i wouldn't mind having to sacrifice my sexuality to be a woman. anyway, this is just so discrimatory. is this the case in australia? it better not be!

I could just lie!

Hiya Veltiro,

I'm an Australian and being a lesbian has not interfered with my transition in any way. It doesn't so much these days where experienced therapists are concerned.

I don't think its as much discrimination as preconcieved notions and misconceptions by the therapist. I wouldn't worry about it too much and if you run into one that thinks that way educate them on the diversity of the community.

Quote from: veltiro on June 22, 2013, 05:24:36 AM
okay i was reading someone's post and she said the doctor mad her have to date men if she wanted HRT. this is so mean and discrimatory. Does no-one know that 30% of transwomen are lesbian. anyway I'm bisexual so i wouldn't mind having to sacrifice my sexuality to be a woman. anyway, this is just so discrimatory. is this the case in australia? it better not be!

I could just lie!

I find that very hard to believe. First off, gender and sexuality are two entirely separate things. So a prerequisite for being a woman is not a sexual interest in men. I believe that either the poster misunderstood or their therapist is very incompetent. There are quite a few other possible factors too.  Like my therapist basically insisted I confront my fears. I'd come in and tell her I'm scared of [blank] and she' say I'd like to see you confront [blank] before our next session. Maybe this poster said something about being scared to date men or seen as a straight woman, so the therapist CHALLENGED her to date men.

Again, all my own personal speculation. Bottom line is that no respectable, qualified gender therapist should ever tell you you have to date someone in order to be who you are... That's wrong.

You shouldn't have to from what I'm told? Idk though, I mean I would think you wouldn't have to date guys if your doing transition

Over here, in Amsterdam, Holland, pre MTF who are only into men....are a small minority and it really happens that TG therapists ask them 'are you sure you're not gay guy?'

Whereas the others are NOT asked 'are you sure you're not a straight guy?'
No matter how many times they've married and divorced ciswomen, no matter how many children they have sired as bio fathers.

So does that mean trans women are expected to be lesbians? Sounds like the diagnosing criteria is different from place to place or therapist to therapist from the sounds of things. Just make sure you really are trans before you start with the ffs and all the other stuff

Yeah I think that might have been a misinterpretation or it was taken out of context. I've seen a lot of therapists over the years and I only had one ever say something similar to that, but it wasn't a prerequisite to transitioning. It was because I couldn't figure out my sexual orientation, but definitely did not enjoy being with women. She suggested that I give it a try with a guy. It had nothing to do with my transition (or lack of) though. It was just a step that she thought would help me.

Quote from: veltiro on June 22, 2013, 05:24:36 AM. . . have to date men if she wanted HRT. Does no-one know that 30% of transwomen are lesbian.

That's disgusting, find it hard to believe, but i'm sure here in the middle (between east, "Amerika" & west ) the % is even higher than that! Suppose Australia, as a long time "experimental colony", has a life all it's own.

From one study:

Quote from: Emerging Cultures
Cultural influences are perhaps the least understood aspect of transsexuality - in large part the effects of culture are so hard to define and study. Still, the evidence suggests that these factors strongly influence whether MtF transsexuals tend to be gay of straight. In Far Eastern countries such as Korea, Malaysia. Singapore and Thailand, fewer than 5 percent of MtF transsexuals may be heterosexual. The rest are homosexual biological males, usually extremely feminine in their behavior and appearance and exclusively attracted toward men. (These are the so-called kathoeys or ladyboys of Southeast Asia.) In striking contrast, this ratio of gay to straight is almost perfectly flipped in the West, where 75 percent or more of American and British transsexuals are heterosexual - attracted to women - or bisexual.

I think it may have somewhat to do with a more feminist, "christian mentality" here but also wouldn't believe everything you hear.

No you wouldn't have to and if they insist that you do - just explain to them the difference between gender identity and sexual prefrences.

Am not sure how many doctors would insist that you date men?

Some doctors are funny. They request things. You end up just going along with it sort of speak if they are pig headed. But other doctors you can talk to

Its pretty simple really, you don't allow anyone to tell you to date a particular type of person or do anything with someone that makes you uncomfortable.

Quote from: veltiro on June 22, 2013, 05:24:36 AM
okay i was reading someone's post and she said the doctor mad her have to date men if she wanted HRT. this is so mean and discrimatory. Does no-one know that 30% of transwomen are lesbian. anyway I'm bisexual so i wouldn't mind having to sacrifice my sexuality to be a woman. anyway, this is just so discrimatory. is this the case in australia? it better not be!

I could just lie!

No Cutie, you date whoever you want.

for every contingency you have to have a plan...what are you prepared to say and/or do is of vital importance

QuoteOver here, in Amsterdam

First of all, hello fellow Dutchie!

Regarding the question, I believe Norway is old fashioned and requires you to be straight if you wish to transition. I have a friend who is FtM, and there was no way he could transition because he was married to a man, and this thus meant he would be gay. They simply do not seem to be able to disconnect sexuality and someone's gender identity, which is plain old fashioned and stupid.

However, I could be wrong. Any Norwegians here?

But it seems only Norway is like that. The other countries seem to be smart enough to know that sexuality got nothing to do with your own gender identity.

QuoteQuote from: Emerging Cultures
Cultural influences are perhaps the least understood aspect of transsexuality - in large part the effects of culture are so hard to define and study. Still, the evidence suggests that these factors strongly influence whether MtF transsexuals tend to be gay of straight. In Far Eastern countries such as Korea, Malaysia. Singapore and Thailand, fewer than 5 percent of MtF transsexuals may be heterosexual. The rest are homosexual biological males, usually extremely feminine in their behavior and appearance and exclusively attracted toward men. (These are the so-called kathoeys or ladyboys of Southeast Asia.) In striking contrast, this ratio of gay to straight is almost perfectly flipped in the West, where 75 percent or more of American and British transsexuals are heterosexual - attracted to women - or bisexual.

Sounds like they are talking about gay men instead of MTF and about straight heterosexual FTM.

Quote from: Mr.X on June 22, 2013, 09:28:14 AM
First of all, hello fellow Dutchie!

Regarding the question, I believe Norway is old fashioned and requires you to be straight if you wish to transition. I have a friend who is FtM, and there was no way he could transition because he was married to a man, and this thus meant he would be gay. They simply do not seem to be able to disconnect sexuality and someone's gender identity, which is plain old fashioned and stupid.

However, I could be wrong. Any Norwegians here?

But it seems only Norway is like that. The other countries seem to be smart enough to know that sexuality got nothing to do with your own gender identity.

My Dad's Dad come from Groningen but we are ethnically Frisians

QuoteMy Dad's Dad come from Groningen but we are ethnically Frisians

Wow, really? I had not expected a fellow Frisian here. We are rare as it is, especially on an American dominated forum. But awesome!

Sorry for completely going off topic. It won't happen again, I swear!

Just find a good therapist, one who is familiar with LGBT issues.

Yes, there are a few doctors out there who still classify transsexualism as a mental disorder and will only prescribe transgender hormones and surgery to those who fit a very narrow definition.

But if you find a good therapist, one who is familiar with the community and recognizes that it's not so much a disorder as a matter of self-identity, and that gender identity is completely different from sexual orientation, masculinity/femininity, and any number of other heteronormative assumptions, you should be just fine.

It shouldnt,  Im a lesbian, my Doctor's nor my therpists have givin me any problems due to whom Im attracted to.

Quote from: Mr.X on June 22, 2013, 12:13:39 PM
Wow, really? I had not expected a fellow Frisian here. We are rare as it is, especially on an American dominated forum. But awesome!

Sorry for completely going off topic. It won't happen again, I swear!

I'm from Friesland too, born in Leeuwarden....but my mother is Indonesian, my father half Jewish, half Dutch/Frisian :-)

I don't think my doctor has even asked about my sexual orientation.  I can see clueless MDs asking, but most who deal with this know it's irrelevant.

Quote from: Michelle S. on June 22, 2013, 07:19:48 AM
I find that very hard to believe. First off, gender and sexuality are two entirely separate things. So a prerequisite for being a woman is not a sexual interest in men. I believe that either the poster misunderstood or their therapist is very incompetent. There are quite a few other possible factors too.  Like my therapist basically insisted I confront my fears. I'd come in and tell her I'm scared of [blank] and she' say I'd like to see you confront [blank] before our next session. Maybe this poster said something about being scared to date men or seen as a straight woman, so the therapist CHALLENGED her to date men.

Again, all my own personal speculation. Bottom line is that no respectable, qualified gender therapist should ever tell you you have to date someone in order to be who you are... That's wrong.

I am not certain of the post she is talking about, she might want to post a link back, I have made references to the fact that when I FIRST transitioned I was required to date men, however I am now a lesbian as I have always been attracted to women. In 1987 it WAS a requirement. As far as I know in most areas it is no longer a requirement and only ignorant therapist even try.

Hard to believe. Now, about sexuality being separate than gender identity, NONSENSE. Hormones play a part in your sexuality-not always, but...

Nobody is 100% anything, completely straight or gay. Sexuality, intensity, and other factors change over time. I started HRT as a straight gendered male, but here we are 47 days later and I find myself interested in men and women. I've heard the same from others ahead of me in the transition process.

I'd love to hear from others.

There recently was a topic on that subject - being forced by a gatekeeper into a specific sort of relationship.  I recall it, but can not locate it right this second.

I really, really don't like gatekeeping.

It often helps to cut and paste a link to the old topic.

I emailed six doctors and herd back for four. They all said the SMS thing since the doctor holds some control over the persons situation they can influence them into the choice. Idk kind of what I thought could be done but it doesn't sound nice or fair

Quote from: DrBobbi on June 22, 2013, 08:22:10 PM
Hard to believe. Now, about sexuality being separate than gender identity, NONSENSE. Hormones play a part in your sexuality-not always, but...

Nobody is 100% anything, completely straight or gay. Sexuality, intensity, and other factors change over time. I started HRT as a straight gendered male, but here we are 47 days later and I find myself interested in men and women. I've heard the same from others ahead of me in the transition process.

I'd love to hear from others.

They've tried it during the 40's, 50's and 60's; ' to cure' gay men by administering (large) doses of testosterone. Oh, MTF too....and guess what?

It didn't change their sexual orientation/ID at all.

Sexual orientation is inborn....and this 'changing sexual orientation' by using hormones is a dangerous fairytale.
And yes, there are people who are 100% completely straight or 100% completely gay....don't deny their existence....those people have the full right to be exclusively straight or gay.

I am 100% into masculine men only. And if a masculine man turns out to be a tv/cd or even worse a pre everything TS...then poof! I'm gone, faster than the speed of light.

Quote from: DrBobbi on June 22, 2013, 08:22:10 PM
Hard to believe. Now, about sexuality being separate than gender identity, NONSENSE. Hormones play a part in your sexuality-not always, but...

Nobody is 100% anything, completely straight or gay. Sexuality, intensity, and other factors change over time. I started HRT as a straight gendered male, but here we are 47 days later and I find myself interested in men and women. I've heard the same from others ahead of me in the transition process.

I'd love to hear from others.

I am sorry please would everyone STOP FORCING ME NOT! to be 100% lesbian I know what I am and I am a lesbian, I wish that people would let me be who am, everyone who says that it is not possible to know who I am and says that everyone it the world HAS TO BE FLUID OR CANNOT KNOW who they are or they change does not know ME OR MY LIFE! please just speak for yourself!

Funny thing about HRT and transition is that it helps deal with internalised homophobia, or in other words, allows continued adherence to heteronormalcy. There's less HRT influence than one thinks on sexuality. Cultural and peer pressures can be a powerful medicine.

Who you have sexual interest in should have nothing to do with getting hormones.

People grow and people change, its your decision who you are attracted to.  Don't let people pressure you either way.

Quote from: Nicolette on June 24, 2013, 09:39:53 AM
Funny thing about HRT and transition is that it helps deal with internalised homophobia, or in other words, allows continued adherence to heteronormalcy. There's less HRT influence than one thinks on sexuality. Cultural and peer pressures can be a powerful medicine.

I agree with that. Sort of going along with that thought...

I wasn't homophobic but I am bi and was at first very intolerant of my feelings. I think it was the idea of sex physically as a man with a man. It didn't feel right and the 2 times I was with a guy I didn't enjoy it because I was so conscious of myself the entire time. Since I've started HRT and begun to finally see my external self match who I am internally, I've become so much confident in my sexuality. My girlfriend and I really enjoy being able to talk openly about who we like, etc.

Ultimately I don't think it was for me personally an internalized homophobia, though. Sex with women was also very discomforting pre-HRT. Pretty much always had to close my eyes and image I was myself with her. I just really didn't like having sex as a man...

So, no I don't think it's the hormones so much as it is culturally and internally driven.

Quote from: Michelle S. on June 24, 2013, 10:03:27 AM
I agree with that. Sort of going along with that thought...

I wasn't homophobic but I am bi and was at first very intolerant of my feelings. I think it was the idea of sex physically as a man with a man. It didn't feel right and the 2 times I was with a guy I didn't enjoy it because I was so conscious of myself the entire time. Since I've started HRT and begun to finally see my external self match who I am internally, I've become so much confident in my sexuality. My girlfriend and I really enjoy being able to talk openly about who we like, etc.

Ultimately I don't think it was for me personally an internalized homophobia, though. Sex with women was also very discomforting pre-HRT. Pretty much always had to close my eyes and image I was myself with her. I just really didn't like having sex as a man...

So, no I don't think it's the hormones so much as it is culturally and internally driven.

This! It's like reading about myself.